The Truth About: Stay-at-Home Dad Life with @sahdnotsad Brandon Morgan

Forget the viral outfits—this conversation goes inside the daily decisions that shape a family. We welcome Brandon Morgan, a stay-at-home dad in LA, to talk about the real work of leading from the background while his wife practices medicine, and why choosing public school became a valued decision with very real costs, maps, and magnets attached. If you’ve ever juggled morning chaos, worried about a school switch, or sat in the dark while a child falls asleep beside you, you’ll recognize this terrain.

Brandon walks us through the practical math that made staying home the obvious choice—childcare costs, part-time schedules, and the surprising relief of removing daily friction. He doesn’t sugarcoat the labor or the privilege, and he names the double standard that still greets involved dads with applause while overlooking mothers doing the same work. We dig into postpartum realities, the mental load, and the quiet pride that comes from packing lunches, making the pickup, and being the person school calls when a snack goes missing. Along the way, he shares small wins that add up: a morning checklist that actually works, after-school yogurt bowls that stave off meltdowns, and “two dinners” that keep the pantry raids at bay.

We also get candid about money—shared budgets, annual audits, and that complicated feeling when a side gig check shows up even after agreeing that worth isn’t tied to income. And yes, we talk bedtime. Co-sleeping, Calm stories, and why so many millennial parents end up lying beside their kids until they drift off. It’s not failure; it’s a season. Brandon’s advice to new dads is simple and strong: drop the ego, be present, and enjoy your kids. If you’re navigating school transitions, redefining masculinity, or just trying to make mornings smoother, this one will feel like a friend in your ear.

If this resonated, follow and share the show with a parent who could use a little relief. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what tradeoff made your family life work better?

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Brandon: Beyond “Dad Fits”
• 1:19 Marriage, Timing, And Modern Dating
• 5:13 Kindergarten Logistics And The Checklist
• 7:40 Big Feelings And Social Transitions
• 12:31 LA Schools, Magnets, And The Move
• 22:28 Choosing Stay-At-Home Dad Life
• 28:53 Joy, Labor, And Postpartum Reality
• 36:48 Double Standards And “Super Dad” Myth
• 45:08 Tradeoffs, Privilege, And Enough
• 53:28 Default Parent, Identity, And Therapy
• 1:02:08 Bedtime Battles And Calm Hacks
• 1:10:48 Money, Audits, And Shared Budgets
• 1:21:08 Advice For New Dads And Joy

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:28

Brandon Morgan went viral on TikTok for his dad fits. I think effortlessly cool made the playground practicality. He's a guy proving that fatherhood and fashion can coexist. But in this episode, we completely forgot to ask him about any of that. Instead, we talked about everything else that makes him who he is a stay-at-home dad with two little boys, married to a doctor, and figuring out what it means to lead from the background. He shares how he and his wife decided he'd be the one to stay home, what it's like navigating a world that still calls mom the default parent, and how becoming a full-time caregiver forced him to rethink masculinity, identity, and success are all all covered in goldfish crackers. It's sharp, funny, and of course deep, kind of like his TikToks, only with fewer outfit changes. We hope you enjoy the episode. We have our first stay-at-home dad guest today, Brandon. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22

Hi, thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24

And you're based in LA, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:27

Yes. We've been in LA for almost 20 years now, now that I think about it. Yeah. I mean, well, I I've when I moved to LA, it's been almost 20 years. And uh my wife and I, we've been married. I think we both moved here at the same time, but we've been married 15 years, or at least 16 years next summer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47

Oh wow. Sixteen years. I mean, Sarah, how long have you been married? It'll be 10 in May. Whoa. Okay. What about you be here? Six? 2019?

SPEAKER_06: 2:00

Oh, I didn't realize that. I mean, I'm I'm an old dog, so it makes sense that I'm getting up there in years for for marriage.

SPEAKER_03: 2:08

You and I are nearly the same age. I'm 42. So my partner, yeah, my husband and I have been together for like 12 years on and off. We just took us a while to get married.

SPEAKER_06: 2:18

You know, nothing's wrong with that. You take we we uh we really enjoyed ourselves before we got married and had kids. So uh it it's very it's I think it's very healthy for a relationship to take your time.

SPEAKER_00: 2:31

Yeah, I agree. I agree, and I see all this stuff about I don't know if you guys follow the millionaire matchmaker, Patty Stanger.

SPEAKER_06: 2:40

I don't follow her online, but I'm I'm familiar with the show.

SPEAKER_00: 2:43

I don't think I follow her either, but I see all these clips from her talking about how if he's not ready to propose in three months, you should like weed him out immediately. I think dating for a long time is fun. I'm I'm very pro taking your time.

SPEAKER_06: 2:56

You know, I was I will admit I I may have been I might have been ready to propose in three months, but I kept that to myself. That was that was not information that she needed to know about. But we we we had a we had a a a good long courtship and we had a long engagement, which I think really helped, you know, work out some of the kinks and really helped us get to know each other.

SPEAKER_00: 3:20

Yeah, yeah. I was talking to someone recently and I was saying that I think my take is that you can know you want to marry someone very early, but I don't I'm not convinced that you can know if you should marry someone.

SPEAKER_06: 3:34

I think that's an excellent way of saying it. I think I would definitely put her um in the top one, you know, in those first three months. I I really thought she was quite amazing and and brilliant. And uh I think for the first time I started really having serious thoughts about what a serious marriage would look like. And um, but I kept it all to myself and and and courted it in a non-creepy appropriate way.

SPEAKER_03: 4:07

So that it wouldn't set off red flags. Have y'all been watching the Daniel Walters stuff on TikTok unfold? Is she come across here? So it's this girl woman in San Francisco, and she's like the Carrie Bradshaw, she says, the brunette Carrie Bradshaw. So she's like documenting her dating escapades, and she met this guy a month ago or something. Like we're delayed, so maybe two months ago now, and she's like talking about marrying him and all this stuff, and it's a very interesting thing to watch. Um, highly recommend it if y'all are looking for a new TikTok show to watch. Uh but then like the second date, she was talking about marrying him, like to his face.

SPEAKER_06: 4:45

Uh, you know, as a person who's getting used to sharing more about my life online, I just I don't know if I would be sharing that information so early on online with the rest of the world to see because I I think for a little bit I thought I was sharing with nobody watching, and then you kind of find out that people are watching that you don't realize they're watching, like people that know me personally, it's like, oh yeah, I've been watching your TikToks for a while. Like no one told me at all you weren't liking or commenting on my post, so I had no idea. So I would just I would be too nervous that the inner circle of people I knew in real life would find out that I was like considering marriage in the first three months of dating my wife.

SPEAKER_02: 5:34

So I don't know, but uh I would just be scared to jinx it, but yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06: 5:39

That would be I I'm I could definitely be a little superstitious, so I would be worried about that for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 5:44

Yeah. And like I said at the beginning, you are the first stay-at-home dad we have had on the podcast. And I'm so excited to talk to you because you do share a lot online and you know about having your two children and running the household. And we shared me parasocially shared with you like the anxieties of starting kindergarten in school because it's like, how are you gonna get to school on time? Have you been making it to school on time?

SPEAKER_06: 6:08

Uh we have been making it to school on time. I'm a big fan of the checklist manifesto, which is uh it it's essentially uh pilots use this. It's sort of a checklist of safety measures that you take before takeoff. That uh I just I just created a checklist every morning. Just things that you would think are very common sense or very obvious, but I felt putting them on a checklist made it very easy for me to stay on track. Like packing lunch, packing snacks, like little things like that that seemed to be obvious. I think just having them on in a checklist really was helpful. And then I think after time it just became routine. I I knew that the water bottle had to be filled, and I knew that the the you know, the lunch had to be packed and the snacks had to be put away, and the homework needs to go in the folder and all that. So I think having that checklist really made it a lot easier to be on time for school, plus it helps that my school is relatively closed, and uh I I think now I'm just sort of dealing with the emotional part of the transition for my oldest into a new school, but we're we're we're handling it and uh every week it gets just a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03: 7:28

Yeah. The emotions are are interesting.

SPEAKER_06: 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 7:32

Yeah. They I guess you expect it at every stage, but like how they're manifesting, at least in my son, is different than I anticipated. I don't know about both of you. I know Zara, you're you're veteran at this.

SPEAKER_06: 7:45

Are you comfortable? Are you comfortable talking about like what how those emotions have been manifesting for you?

SPEAKER_03: 7:52

Yeah, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 7:55

Please tell me.

SPEAKER_03: 7:56

So for for my son, I saw your TikTok where your son said he didn't have any friends. My son was coming home saying the same thing. And my son is notorious, he is gossip, he does not lie. And he I could tell he was lying because he was making a funny face because one of his little girlfriends came over and she lied to us and she went like after she lied. So anytime that he tells a lie, he does it. And I'm like, he's always like the kid who has a bunch of friends. And so I like a back to school night, I'm like, does he have friends? And they're like, Yeah, absolutely. Like he plays with everyone. So um, we've been dealing with a little bit of like not truthfulness, which is the first time ever that we've dealt with that.

unknown: 8:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 8:32

Trying to get that back on track. And then a lot of just like, I don't know. It's kind of like a roller coaster where everything's fine, and then he just like loses it and he comes home with so much energy, and that I wasn't expecting to. So I'm like, how do I manage the energy? Because he should be tired. Um and and so it's just like a lot of unexpected, but yeah. And then he's not getting along with his other friends from before, which is weird because we're very close with our friend group. And we had a birthday party this weekend and they were all not getting along. And I was like, no, we're out. And he's like, Good, I didn't want to be here anyway. And I'm like, and and so we went to Costco because there was less chaos at Costco than there was between the boys at this birthday party. And so just things like that, where I I don't know really how to explain it. What about for you?

SPEAKER_06: 9:22

Uh, you know, he so he he was going to a school uh previously for two years that he really liked. And we thought that this school would be a little bit better for him. And um we're taking them into a another, a completely new environment. The school that he was at before is a relatively smaller school. So, you know, the kids that he knew from kindergarten, he you know, he went into first grade with a lot of them, and it weren't a lot of new faces, and and so he knew a lot of people, he had a lot of friends, and to completely take him out of that environment and put him in somewhere where he really didn't know anybody, I I felt a ton of guilt uh as a parent for making that that choice for him in this new school. And of course, there was the worry about should we just go back and and make have him go back to his old school. So there's I I think my you know my son was born in 2018, so I I refer to him often as a COVID baby. And I know that I've been able to be around a lot to help him with a lot of things. He, you know, a lot of it was a lot of time, there was just the two of us, and I was helping him navigate things just the two of us, and we didn't, you know, especially at the height of it, there weren't a ton of social interactions with other kids and stuff like that. We didn't have uh my my wife being in the medical profession, we didn't have a pod or anything like that because we were concerned about the possibility of uh cross-contamination or getting other people sick. So it was just us. So I was always around to help fix problems and help him emotionally through things. And this is the first time that I can't be around to help at all. I just have to send him out in the world and hope that he figures it out and and figures and navigates it on his own. But I think he needs that. He he needs to be sort of trained socially a little bit better than he has in the last few years. So I I've just had to trust the process, and I I've talked about this before online and resist that millennial urge to make sure that my kids are comfortable all the time. I I think that he needs a little bit of discomfort in navigating social situations. Uh I I think there's something to learn from that. So I'm I'm I'm happy he's going through it. And I and now I feel kind of ridiculous that I was so worried about it because it's only week three.

SPEAKER_05: 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 12:01

You know, I I I I talked about uh at the in the springtime, I talked about how I was gonna make some friends this summer. I haven't done it. I don't have a social schedule or calendar, I don't have any dads I hang out with.

SPEAKER_04: 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 12:16

So I if I can't do it, why would I expect him to do it uh much sooner than that? But he's doing fine. He's got a buddy that he talks about ninja stars and ninja stuff with, and they had a conversation about battling zombies. So I'm I'm happy. He's moving forward socially. We're we're we're he's doing a lot better this week than he was the previous week.

SPEAKER_00: 12:37

I have a little after school hack that I learned earlier last week. So my kids come home hangry, and it's all they're always like picking at little things, and then they just stay hangry because they're eating stuff that doesn't really fill them up. Yeah, I've been making them Greek yogurt bowls, so I'm just doing green yogurt, lots of peanut butter, honey, vanilla extract, and then whatever berries we have, and then I throw some chocolate chips in. Oh, they're actually staying full.

SPEAKER_04: 13:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 13:06

It's dinner after this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:08

We don't eat dinner till seven, though. So we eat dinner pretty late. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 13:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 13:13

But yeah, they're actually staying full, and they're not like running back and forth between the pantry and the couch and like whining about how they want more snacks. It's I'm telling you, it's a game changer.

SPEAKER_06: 13:25

I've I I didn't do it as uh as I haven't done it as much at the start of the school year, but over the summer, I was just doing what I call two dinners.

unknown: 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 13:35

I was hitting them with a dinner, yeah. I was just hitting them with a like a like a full-on dinner at like four o'clock because I just the they have the way our pantry is built, they just have easy access to it.

SPEAKER_04: 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 13:49

And you can't put everything at the highest shelf, so it's just like non-stop running back and forth through the pantry. So I just started serving full meals at three o'clock, and then I would hit them again at six with another dinner, and I think that helped a little bit. Um, but I haven't been doing that, so I really should maybe get back to that because I've been, I I will be honest with you, I feel so bad about this transition into this new school. I've just been hitting them with bad things after school. It's it's really hot here in LA, so it's just like slurpees and ice cream cones and blended chocolate drinks. And I feel like I mean it's it's fun for me.

SPEAKER_03: 14:27

I would want my comfort food.

SPEAKER_06: 14:29

Yeah, a little sweet treat in the afternoon, but uh, I should probably get back to something a little bit more nutrient dense.

SPEAKER_03: 14:35

Yeah. We do that too dinners. I've I've heard some parents do it all year long, the three o'clock. So they pick them up and they just go right into dinner and then the parents eat later. But we on the weekends kind of do what you were saying at like the 4 p.m. we'll do like three or four full meal, and then he'll kind of snack because yeah, I I don't I mean, that's how they do it in Europe, right? It's like you eat and then you eat again and it's fine. Um can I ask why you decided to transition him this year?

SPEAKER_06: 15:03

Uh it's so uh living in Los Angeles, uh sorry, I want to be specific and careful about this. We want to make sure we him going to a public school was very important to us, regardless of our means and ability to go to private school. We just thought that public school was something that was really important to us. And uh unfortunately, LA doesn't have I shouldn't say that they don't have any, but the middle school and high school situation really has to be navigated and you have to be careful and specific about what school you you know, it's you know, where I grew up in Kansas, you you went to you just went to your neighborhood school. It's just, you know, you you went to this place, it was usually based on some sort of proximity to the school, and you just went there and that was the end of the discussion. Uh here in LA, there are various schools that uh take care of various needs. Uh maybe you're trying to be immersed in a specific language, or maybe you want more of an emphasis on the arts, maybe you want an emphasis on math and science. It just depends on what you're trying to do. There's a really good middle school in high school that we wanted him to go to. And this school that is a little bit closer to our house is a prep school for that middle school and high school. It's a it's a direct feeder uh to this high school. It's it's one of the better high schools in the it's a one of the better middle slash high schools in the state. Um and it's it's very competitive to get into this this school because it's it's a magnet, it's open to everybody in Los Angeles. Uh so it's it it's if you don't go to this elementary school, it's a little bit trickier to navigate. So we really wanted him to go to that school, and so that's why we did the transition. So far, not that I've mentioned his his previous school, and I don't want to disparage it. I do like the education that he's getting at this this new school a little bit better. Uh, it reminds me of what my education was growing up. It was a little bit more structured, uh a little bit more just structured. I would say that's the main thing. It's just a little bit structured than it was at the previous school. So um I really wanted that for him, and I and I think it's been it's been good for him so far because he really enjoys his teacher. He really enjoys this teacher. He really learned the loves the learning process. Is this the social thing was just tricky because he just felt like I don't know anybody and every everybody else knows somebody at the school. So I just that was the thing that um that was the reason why we decided to go with the school.

SPEAKER_03: 18:02

Yeah. From somebody who used to change schools all the time, it's really good for him. Like I know it feels really uncomfortable, but yeah, my husband did not change schools at all. I changed schools like every year. Like I was all over the place. And so um, it will set him up. Like I am still socially awkward, but it will set your son up to be able to kind of navigate different situations and be like, yeah, get his sea legs quicker, at least in my experience, and people who I've seen go go through like a similar thing and be more not to say that people who stay at the same school aren't adaptable, but I think it gives you like a little bit more flexibility to be like, okay, well, I can handle this. This is okay. Um, to give you a little comfort, I know it's only anecdotal, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 18:46

No, that's really helpful. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03: 18:49

Yeah. Ever all this stuff can be so tricky. Like what school do you go to? And for anyone listening who doesn't know LA, I used to live in LA up in the hills behind um Argyle Castle, like up there.

SPEAKER_06: 19:01

Yeah, yes, absolutely. I know where that is.

SPEAKER_03: 19:03

And it's very sprawling. So you can go from any, like even across the street from that, it's a completely different neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04: 19:11

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:12

It if you have that many choices, I can imagine it's really hard because you're like, okay, is this a good neighborhood? Is this not? Is it closed? What is the traffic like? Because that's the other thing in LA about the traffic. So for anyone listening, these are it might sound kind of silly to, but it it's so diverse in terms of like every single neighborhood is so different. San Francisco is very similar.

SPEAKER_06: 19:34

Yeah, yeah. Uh we lived we lived briefly in uh San Francisco from 2012 to 2016. So we we we kind of we we had didn't have kids at the time, but we were sort of learning about that system. And it was San Francisco was so fascinating because you walk like we lived in the lower pack heights neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

I lived there too.

SPEAKER_06: 19:56

And so we were like right on the edge between like the Fillmore and Lower Pack Heights, and it's like you go a few blocks this way, it's a completely different neighborhood, and you go a few blocks up the street, and it's some of the most expensive houses in all of San Francisco, so it's really a trip. How but so as a result of that, they're you know, the education and dynamics of every school are much different moving from block to block.

SPEAKER_03: 20:22

Yeah. It's less like that where you are, right, Zara?

SPEAKER_00: 20:27

Um, I mean, the the educational system where I am is very like the good schools are in the suburbs and city schools are pr they're pretty good. I mean, Pittsburgh's a very, it's a very educated like healthcare city. Okay. So we have a lot of really good schools actually, which is nice, but yeah, it's not it's more based on where you live. It's not like like we were in Chicago before and and you're there, it's like there's a big choice around where you send your kids to school. We don't really have that. It's either your local public school or a private school.

SPEAKER_06: 20:58

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we, you know, it's very, you know, it's a lot of there's there's a lottery, there's, you know, magnet versus charter. Do you do this, do that? So it's it's really it I wish it was a lot simpler, but we're sort of willing to go through that the the trouble of it because we really wanted him to get uh a public school education.

SPEAKER_03: 21:24

Yeah. There's a lot of decisions to make as a parent. Um, which brings me to another decision. How did you all decide that you were gonna stay at home and how long have you been staying at home for? Um, my cousin is also a stay-at-home dad. To his wife is a doctor, and it's always been like that ever since they had their first kid. Is it been the same for you all? Or is it yeah, how do you how do you make these decisions?

SPEAKER_06: 21:48

Uh so I you know, it's it's interesting since I've started posting on TikTok. I I'll get messages from men. Sometimes I'll get them from women that are just they want to applaud me for my bravery um for for being a stay-at-home parent. And the thing that I I am confessing here, it for us, it was such a logical, pragmatic decision. There wasn't like uh it was it just it didn't make any sense to do anything else but for me to stay home with the kids. So it just it just felt like an easy thing to do. My uh my wife, when she was finishing up her training, and the she was after the birth of our oldest, she had to do a fellowship year where she was required to work six days a week. And at the time, I was working in a restaurant to make ends meet. So we were uh I I would work, I would uh work at this place that you know most of the restaurants in LA, they none of them have like full-time servers. They usually, because of healthcare and stuff like that, they usually try to keep everybody under uh or under below uh a full-time wage. So everybody's working part-time. So I was maxed out of how much I could work at this particular restaurant. And I was working there, we were making ends meet, we were paying the bills, and then we got to the time where we knew our son was going to come along. So then we started looking at what our childcare options are. And I I want to be very careful when I speak about the child care thing because I'm I'm not complaining about the cost of childcare, because most of the time, the vast majority of people running daycares and childcare centers are women of color. So I'm not trying to speak negatively about these people trying to earn a living. They're doing something very important. They're literally helping me raise my kid. But as we were looking at our options that were available, the cost was it was it it's like buying a MacBook Air once a month, you know, like we like we just we didn't have the means for that. And as we went through the numbers and we thought about the possibility of working at one place during the day and then working at another place during the night. Or what if I found another job where I the days I had off, I squeezed in. We were like, we will not be able to like we can't afford to for you to work more, which sounds weird, but it was just like I wasn't making that, I was making enough money to help ends me, but I wasn't making enough money to afford child care. You know, it was like at the end of the month, I was gonna maybe profit like a few dollars, you know, a few hundred bucks after we paid for child care. So we realized that just me staying home would help uh help us, it was gonna save us money uh in a weird way. So what we did was is Monday through Saturday, I would be home with my son, and my wife would be uh doing her fellowship, and then on Sunday, I would then go work at the restaurant all day.

SPEAKER_03: 25:08

Wow, he didn't get any time off, and neither did she.

SPEAKER_06: 25:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I've had people, I've people have said that to me before, but uh I I I hope this isn't come across corny, but I really didn't. It uh Spike Lee's doing a lot of interviews because he's promoting a movie and he he I guess he tells his film students that if you are able to do something you love, you won't work a day in your life. And I really loved being at home with my son. I I I know it may sound corny, whatever. I I I enjoyed it. I had a I had a blast doing it because I just I really linked into it. I was like, I get to introduce him to Sesame Street, I get snacks. If he's taking a nap, I'm gonna take a nap. Like, like applesauce and and graham crackers with peanut butter, just like they go off. Like they're good. Like that's like a thing I wasn't really doing anyway. I wasn't like, I wasn't like, you know, downing uh, you know, graham crackers and peanut butter on my own, but it's like having kids, so now I had an excuse to do it. And we we go to the park, I take them to children's museums, it take them to the play place inside the mall, drink a cup of coffee. Like I I really enjoyed it. So it really, it really didn't feel like for me. It it it is hard work. It really is hard work, it is exhausting, it is tiring, it is a it is certainly a labor of love, but I didn't feel I didn't really feel depleted from doing it Monday through Saturday.

SPEAKER_04: 26:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 26:43

And uh so you know, I I felt like I was working on Sunday. That was it. I would work on Sunday, and I remember, you know, I would go into that shift and I'd, you know, was usually working the brunch shifts. I'm serving the pancakes and the eggs and bacon and everything. And I get off and I I poured myself a cold brew coffee. And then that I I was like relieved to like get back home to doing the like dad thing and like tag my wife out so she can she can get some rest. Because, you know, I've you know, I really felt bad for her because she was working six days a week and then to have to like be on as a mom on Sunday where she's exhausted from you know her training and doing what she had to do. So I was really happy to be able to come back home and sort of relieve her of that and she can go lay down for a minute, watch some TV and stuff. So for me, it it didn't really feel it was a lot. I'm not gonna I'll being honest, it was a lot of work and it was very exhausting, it was very tiring, but I I just I I got a lot of enjoyment out of doing it. So it really, it didn't really feel like a a Herculine task to do that.

SPEAKER_03: 27:53

My husband felt the same when he was on parental leave. And so I don't think what you're saying is corny. I think it's different from like a lot of moms. I and I think just like how our brain and chemistry works, like still to this day, when I hear my son cry, it's like a different response in my body than his. And I almost feel like it's what you're describing is the way it should be to stay at home, where it's like you're really enjoying it. But I remember when I was staying at home and Zara, I don't know if you had this experience too, but I was so depleted and I was like, just get me away. I need to be by myself, but I don't know if that was the hormones and the, you know, the pregnancy through the birth and all of that. But what you're describing, I think is what a lot of people think maternity leave is for moms.

SPEAKER_04: 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 28:36

And so I yeah, it it's just so interesting to me. I wish we had more parental leave for dad, too.

SPEAKER_06: 28:42

Yeah, yeah. Well, I you know, it that was nice that uh out here in California, we get a little uh family leave of pay. So that was helpful and sort of not have to think about the financial part of it. But I think not to speak for my wife, I think the other thing that I I think was um made it a little bit easier for me, there's a physical component of postpartum that I didn't have to deal with. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like there's there is uh your you know, my wife nursed uh a little over a year.

SPEAKER_01: 29:19

Oh wow. So you know working six days a week.

SPEAKER_06: 29:22

Yeah, yeah. So she, you know, she she they've made some changes as far as uh nursing is concerned in her workplace as a result of her and some of the other uh uh mothers uh where she works. They've made some changes to make it a little bit easier. It it it was a task for sure. You know, that's why I think it made it a little bit easier for me because I was like, I don't have to, I don't have to like, hey, uh I you know, she would have to do things like get her work in a certain position where she could say, okay, I need my resident to take over so I can sneak off to the locker room and go quickly pump and then put everything in the fridge, and we had ice packs. We it was like a whole system that we had to put in place. And I didn't have to worry about any of that. I was just like defrosting bottles and then with my kid, he didn't he preferred cold milk. So I had to do was leave the milk in the fridge, let it defrost, and like give him the bottle straight from the fridge. So I didn't even have to worry about warming it up and for. For you know, a year and change after she gave birth, her her body belonged to somebody else, you know, and that's that's not that's something that I didn't really have to think about. You know, I just you know, putting him on my hip and lifting him over my shoulders and playing with them and stuff like that, that was like the extent of what I had to do physically for for my my newborn son. Her her body belonged to somebody else. So for her to have to just uh imagining how challenging that must be to you're you're sort of dealing physically with a new body that and and and I'm not talking about sort of weight gain or loss here. I'm just talking about you just it it doesn't feel like it's the one that you had before you had.

SPEAKER_03: 31:17

Well, your abs are were just stretched out and everything like your body is completely like you don't have any core strength, like you can't even walk around normally, yeah, and even sneeze.

SPEAKER_06: 31:28

Yeah, uh yeah, like yeah. So, you know, it's like I didn't I didn't have to manage any of that. So in in having to like I get a little down in the dumps when my when I throw my back out. You know, I just start feeling it's like I just you know, I start feeling a little bummed out. I feel like I'm getting older and time is it's like all these thoughts. So if I had to manage the the physical challenge postpartum plus the isolation, um plus the new social dynamics to have to navigate, that that would that would have be a lot for for me to have to deal with. So I you know, all I had to deal with is sort of the awkwardness of making new friends at the park and the the maybe the guilt of, you know, did we do enough today? We it just felt like we just kind of loafed around the house. Like those felt like minor change, uh minor changes or minor things to deal with in comparison to what she had to deal with. So I think it made my job a a lot easier, not having to deal with the physical part of it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:37

You know what else I think is a piece of this too is I think mothers are so hard on ourselves. And we hold ourselves to such high standards all the time. And I think part of that, right, is like what you were saying. People will reach out to you and say that you're doing this like brave revolutionary thing and you're supporting your wife's career, but people will look at stay-at-home moms and say, like, oh, you're a freeloader. Yeah, you're just bleaching off of your husband, you're not contributing anything, you're not, you know, bringing in a paycheck, whatever. All the things people say to mothers in every situation because you can't win. But I think that's such a huge part of it. And I know because I I work from home. And at one point when my kids were little, I was working from home Monday to Thursday, and then Fridays I was fully just in stay-at-home mom mode. Those were the hardest days, even though I was working from home without childcare the other days because I was putting so much pressure on myself to be like making perfect meals and to be teaching them every second of the day and to have the house perfect and just so much pressure. And I feel like dads are just a little bit better at understanding that it's not gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_06: 33:51

Well, I I would I would I I need to admit here for myself, the the bar is way lower for for me than it is for a lot of moms. I I remember, I forgot why, uh, but I was dressed up for some reason at at the grocery store. I was wearing, I was wearing like slacks and a and a button-up shirt. And uh I can't remember why I was dressed up, but I was doing something, and I knew after that I had to go straight from there to the grocery store. And my and my son was with me the the whole time. And I'm walking in with him, you know, on my hip, and this woman says, Way to go, super dad. And I was like, Oh, that's nice, that's I yeah, all right, I'm super dad. That's that's cool. And right as she says that, another woman walks by me with a baby on her chest and a and a toddler in her hand. Nobody said anything to her. Nobody said anything to her, and I and I know that maybe the perception was it's like, look at this office place dad with his kid going to get grow like, oh wow, he's just such an amazing guy. But I I often see moms just totally getting overlooked because that's the role that they're supposed to have. That's the role that they're supposed to take on. And, you know, I I you know, just the fact that I do laundry is just like, oh, wow, look at the let's look how much Brandon does for you. He does the laundry. It's like women, women are in the workplace and raising kids and doing laundry, but they don't really get the credit for that. So I think that really doing the bare minimum, and I and I know that I I know some of this is encouraging the millennial father for sort of doing things differently than the way things may have been done in the past, but it's it's just a it's a way lower standard for dads in general, I think. Um it it's just it's just a lot easier to get a lot of hype rate. Or at least that's the experience that I've had where I just feel like I really don't have to do a lot to to be encouraged by somebody else. You know, I I I'll be if I ever have to take the kids to a birthday party by myself or something like that, everyone. Oh my goodness you're so brave. You took both the kids to a birthday party. And then I see moms at the same birthday party with just their kids. It's like, and maybe they're getting, maybe someone's going over there and saying something to them, but I I don't see it. So um it's really unfair that that privilege exists, but I just think it it's way different. And I think that a lot of the disparaging remarks uh and words that I get about being a stay-at-home father is just from other from other disgruntled guys, and I just I don't think much about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 36:56

That's so interesting. Yeah, my husband has a similar experience whenever he takes our kid out, like he'll take a kid to the birthday party by or to a play date. And I remember one time he took our son out, and he he's the one who packs the bag to go because I don't remember and I don't want to bring snacks, and you know, and so he had all this stuff and he like busted out lunch, and they're like, Oh, Sam got that ready for you. And he's like, What are you what? No, like I got it. And they're like, Oh, she told you what to pack. And he's like, Yeah, what? Like, what are you talking about? Like he's and he said it makes him so uncomfortable. He's like, Because this is my child, like, why can't why wouldn't I be taking care of him? But then on the flip side, when dads pack a lunch at our school, it's like two large carrots, and that is the lunch. And so I'm not even exaggerating. That was one, like one of the moms was complaining. She's like, I was gone and he packed lunch and it was just two large carrots.

SPEAKER_04: 37:45

Yeah. That was it.

SPEAKER_03: 37:47

Not even big ones. So I think it is so much like yeah, I guess when the bar is large carrots to, you know, yeah. It's just so interesting.

SPEAKER_06: 37:58

Zara, how how was it for you and your family to to make that choice for you to stay home? How did how did you come to that conclusion?

SPEAKER_00: 38:06

It was a very easy choice for us. Um my husband and I both grew up with stay-at-home moms, and we both we both really liked it. And I had a job that I liked but didn't love, is how I describe it. I think it would have been harder if I had loved the job, but it was kind of just like this is fine for now. And so I left. I didn't, we didn't even look at like daycare nanny prices, anything like that. But with twins, it probably would have eaten up a lot of my paycheck.

SPEAKER_04: 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:37

So yeah, we just made the choice very easily. And then I also work in a field where I can freelance. So I knew that that was going to be an option for me. And I thought that I would take like a year before I did that. I'd ended up being more like five or six months.

SPEAKER_04: 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:50

But yeah, I just kind of always I knew that I didn't want to be away from my kids for all day, every day. For me, like I was living in the city, there was city traffic, I was leaving home at like 8 15, I was getting home at like 7 15, you know, and I just felt like I'm not gonna have any time with them. So easy choice.

SPEAKER_03: 39:11

Also, your husband made enough to supplement too, right? Because that made it it made it so there wasn't as much of a discussion, right?

SPEAKER_00: 39:17

Yeah. And my husband actually got a new job pretty shortly after our kids were born, where he was, it was like replacing what my salary had been. So financially and yeah, and I don't want to be flippant about this because I know that not everyone has the opportunity to make this choice from a completely emotional place, right? I think even if you have the ability to be a stay-at-home parent for a lot of people, there's a lot of like going line by line down the budget and making sure that it's going to be possible and comfortable and all of that. So like fully, fully aware of my privilege there. But like you said, I mean, a lot of people have to be stay-at-home parents because childcare is prohibitively expensive. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 40:01

Well, you know, I I I do think about that, the privilege part often uh myself, because uh sort of thinking about some of the logistics uh when we were considering uh childcare and me working more, I was like, well, if I get the second job, he'll have to go to like he may have to be at daycare till this late at night. And what about this? And maybe we'll have like, you know, because there's like 24-hour daycare facilities, and there's all these other options. And I was just like, I I I just don't like those options for us, so I don't want to do that. And I realized for other families, it's just they don't have a choice, they don't have a choice. They it's we we both have to work in order to make ends meet, and even at the end of the daycare bill being paid, we're sort of netting just like a few hundred dollars, maybe a few thousand. Like that little a bit of money is the difference between you know making rent and not. So it really is like a privilege that I've been able to do it. And I had I had a moment too where I thought about going back to the field that I was in before we had moved back to Los Angeles. And I I just I I what you said having a job that you liked but not loved, I I think that was definitely an experience that I had because I just thought I was like, even if I made it to the highest levels of success in this particular field, it just it wouldn't fulfill me the same way that raising my kids has. And it just it was just like I it just wasn't worth it for me to go back. And and maybe that's because like I've never found the job that I love. And maybe that's what that's about. But I just the field that I was in before I had kids, it just like the even if I got the dream job, I just don't think it, I it, I don't think it would have hit the way I thought it would have.

SPEAKER_00: 42:07

So yeah, that's I agree. I had a very similar situation where I kind of had a dream job and I was on track to having it, and it was just like, oh, I don't I don't think this is the dream after all.

SPEAKER_06: 42:19

Now, I Sam, I know you were in corporate America.

SPEAKER_03: 42:23

Yeah, I I couldn't, I couldn't, I cannot relate to anything you you all are saying right now, like being fulfilled by being like I am getting more fulfilled now that my son is older in motherhood.

SPEAKER_04: 42:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 42:35

But yeah, for me, I it was never an option. I didn't even really want kids. So it was like I am not gonna be a stay-at-home mom. Like, I do not want to, I I thought that I would just have a kid, it'll be a little blip, and then I go back to where I was. Um was not like that. And I didn't even think of staying at home as an option. So we had our son during 2020, summer of 2020. And so we had to pay a nanny. And prior to that, I was the week my son was born, I paid off my last student loan payment of like$135,000. So I was like, great. And then we got a nanny. And our nanny was$4,000 a month. And I was like, okay, this makes sense. She can stay till six, start at eight. My call started at 6 a.m. And at 6 p.m., okay, we can figure this out. And it literally never crossed my mind to do it any different way because it was like, well, obviously. And then I got a new job, you know, eight months into postpartum for whatever that was, don't do that. If you're listening, don't make any major decisions. I wish somebody would have told me that. Um, your brain is not functioning the way it used to. It won't ever again, but it's really not functioning then. And I just, I don't know. I I never thought that, you know, it could be any different way. And then my husband and I went through a really challenging time in our marriage. We were just, I felt like I was doing everything. He felt like he was doing everything. And I was just miserable. And so I started contracting after a layoff and, you know, making more money working six months a year than I was 12. And so, like it just so then I would take six months of the year off and I did that for two years, and then I just didn't look for another contract again. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And our life had been better, like our marriage got better, like everything kind of improved. And I think it's because I wasn't as stressed. I wasn't like snapping at my son all the time. I wasn't snapping at my husband all the time because like I wasn't depleting myself throughout the day. And again, this could be because I was in a job that I am not meant to be. Like I I was helping salespeople all day. It's like I was so depleted from that, I had nothing to give my family. And it was like, I was like, okay, great, let's get a divorce and then I can work more. Um and again, your brain is not functioning properly when you're postpartum. So to anyone listening. And um, now that I have taken time off, I don't understand how anyone does it and stays married and stays happy and um with two demanding jobs. I just don't like I see my friends now who still are in that situation. And a lot of them, you know, not a lot, but many of them are like regret having kids or they're just very stressed, or you know, things are just a lot worse. And it's hard too in in my area. Uh, we all this sounds okay. I'm not even gonna say that. Anyway, our in our area, people make a shit ton of money. Everyone works in tech, everyone works in AI, they make a lot of money. And so it can be one of those things where it's like, why would I give up my paycheck? And that's what it was for me too. And then it was like, my husband has a different view on it. He's like, Why would you give up our kid's childhood? Like, why why are you going to impact your relationship with our kid just to have more money? And I know that's a really privileged way to look at things, but we have friends, I have a friend who, you know, they do not make a lot of money and they live in the Bay Area. They have different privileges, but she stays at home and they make it work because that is what is important to her. And yeah, so that's something now that I keep in mind where I'm like, when I'm like, I should go back to work full time because I could make so much money. And then I'm like, at what, at what cost?

SPEAKER_04: 46:13

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03: 46:14

And so I've been thinking about that a lot more. That's kind of how I keep myself from going back and applying for jobs because I get into that thing where it's like, well, I want to have my my own money and like I I want to be able to get to my$1,600 Botox whenever I want, you know, like all of those things. And it has been an adjustment because like, um yeah, I mean, if anyone listened to the previous episode, I was making more than a quarter of a million a year. And it's a lot of money no matter where you live. And um, it's a lot of money to walk away from. But I I would, I don't think we'd be married right now. My son and I would be getting along. Like, I'm so much happier. I'd probably be sick because I would work myself to the bone. And so yeah, there are a lot of benefits to this. And I am very lucky that we were able to do this. Like taking that kind of financial hit is crazy. It's you know, not to say that we didn't make choices, but there are things that weren't necessarily choices that gave us privilege to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_04: 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:13

You know what I find really interesting is I'm sure you've seen, Brandon, there's that viral video on social media that's like if your wife was making$400,000, would you be a stay-at-home dad? And then it like flashes to the guy like throwing laundry into the machine and like dancing around the house. We totally have this attitude that you can be a stay-at-home dad if your wife is making crazy money.

SPEAKER_04: 47:36

Right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:38

People will ask, will tell moms, you should make it work on$40,000. You know, just make sacrifices.

SPEAKER_04: 47:44

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:46

Just don't have a second car so that you're trapped in the house all day long with your children.

SPEAKER_06: 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:51

Not buying stupid shit on Amazon.

SPEAKER_06: 47:54

No, it's the yeah, I I think the uh the the challenge or the uh the task that has been put upon a lot of women that to stay at home or that end up staying at home is like to figure out a way to make it work with the means that you have. And that's not fair. And but I will admit, you know, uh our family circumstance has made it easier to make some of these choices. And another thing that I'm uh a little embarrassed about, I will admit this. Sometimes my wife and I will go to a a gathering or a party from one of her work colleagues, and it's it's a two-doctor house, you know, two-doctor income. And uh you go into the house and you go, holy cow, like this this is the life you could have had you married a little bit better. Like you could like you could be why you could be in this neighborhood with this foyer, had you decided to marry another doctor, and and and I may get down in the dumps a little bit, and you know, my wife will say, I the things that you've been able to do for our family, it's just more valuable to me than than that. And I think that that makes it a lot a lot easier. I um I know about some parents that both of them are in high-demand jobs, they're both working, and they they're bummed out that uh their nanny is the one that can make it to the sporting event that they that neither one of them can make it to. And uh it's it's a tremendous relief uh for my wife to know that whenever the kids get sick, I can pivot and pick them up and know and she doesn't even have to if she doesn't have to worry about it. We don't have to text each other back and forth. Well, I have that meeting at one o'clock. Maybe after meeting I can leave a little bit early. Well, let me see if I can reschedule this, that, or whatever. It's just like she knows that she has somebody at home that can handle that for her and she doesn't have to worry about it. She makes it to my my my uh both of my kids are in different one's in gymnastics, one's in and track. And they we they my wife has been able to make to most things, but if she knows that something comes up that she can't make it to, she knows that at least one parent can be there. And for us, that's that's something that's very valuable to us.

SPEAKER_03: 50:32

Yeah, yeah. The to your foyer comment, um, whenever I get down in the dumps and stuff, I'm like, oh, but I could I should just go back to work. And my husband's always like, just because they have that doesn't mean they're happy, you know? Yeah, and it's you can look from the outside in and be like, oh, they everything looks fine, and then they could be bummed out or they could be on the divorce. You never know somebody's circumstances. Yeah. Like I'm very open with my friend group about what's going on when my husband and I struggle. I'm like, I need help. Somebody, you know, but a lot of people you have no idea, and all of a sudden they get divorced and you're like, well, that came out of nowhere. Like they were happy, they had everything, you know, they wanted. And I think we don't prioritize families as much. And, you know, the the health of our families, not like physical health, but like, I don't know, that that emotional stuff, because we don't have the community that we used to, right? You're in LA. Like it takes you 20 minutes to get, you know, down the street to do anything. Right.

SPEAKER_04: 51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:33

And it's like you don't have that kind of support and you get to be that support for your family by staying at home. And yeah, I just feel like we, yeah. It's like if money seems like it, well, we're in a capitalist society, but money is the thing that everyone's like, if I get more of this, and if you switch it to if I get more time with my family and all of that, and I can figure out the finances a different way. And again, I'm saying this from a privileged perspective, but like I I literally go diving in bins at the goodwill dumpsters right now, and I sell stuff on the internet. So like there, there are different ways to make things work. And I and I feel like sometimes it gets to the gets to be where people judge you because it's like, oh, well, you get to stay home. And it's like, well, you don't know the sacrifices that are being made in order to make that happen. I think that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_00: 52:22

There's always a trade-off. I mean, I think it's just figuring out what where the pros outweigh the cons for you. And I used to get really annoyed when people would ask me why I quit my job to be home. And I was always like, isn't it obvious that I want more time with my kids? But truly, I think when you unpack it, it's just that the pros outweighed the cons for me.

SPEAKER_06: 52:44

Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I I think the you know, part of the reason why I have been posting online uh recently, and and the reason why I started um my TikTok account was is I just wanted people to sort of explore the options. Uh I often will get messages from young men that will say, I really wish I could be a stay-home father, but I'm worried about like how people will see me and how people will judge me. And I just I just want to open people up to thinking about the option that works best for their family, whether it's like both of you are working, one of you is working, regardless of what gender is doing, what job. I just think I want people to sort of see the options. And I and I think this is easier to, you know, easier said than done. We do live in a capitalist society. Um, you know, you know, money makes the world go round, bills are due. So I I certainly wouldn't fault people for making a financial decision or or maybe choosing finances over everything else. But we could have more, but uh what's the point of the for us, for us, what's the point of that more.

SPEAKER_01: 54:00

As long as you have enough, right?

SPEAKER_06: 54:02

Yeah, yeah. And we and I think for the various financial positions that we've been in in our our marriage, uh having more than enough seems like a perfectly fine place to be in for us.

SPEAKER_03: 54:17

Yeah, I think that's the other thing when you're not trying to keep up with the Joneses, because I think so many of us get into that trap, like where it's like, oh, they have this big house, they have this great thing, and it's like, nope, that's just more stress. You don't need it. That's more property taxes. You don't need that.

SPEAKER_04: 54:31

Right, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:32

Like, who needs that? You have to clean more. Like, I we live in a condo and we made this decision because I like I grew up poor, and so I was like, I'm not gonna get we cannot take on a huge mortgage. Like, that is insane. Like, what if something happens? And so we opted for that, and I know a lot of people opted who we know opted for the bigger house because it, you know, you do make more, and then you can't get off the treadmill kind of that hedonistic treadmill that people talk about. It's like um so yeah, I don't so you're saying you don't regret this, and you love that you are a stay-at-home dad, and I think all of us I mean, we all stay at home, so I know I don't regret it, and I'm very new into this.

SPEAKER_06: 55:15

Yeah, I you know, for I I don't know if this is like a post a COVID thing. I I just I don't I my I feel like my social circle isn't big enough to worry about how I'm being perceived. You know, occasionally I'll get like a weird comment in real life from somebody. Like my my favorite was uh there was his dad. I knew his uh wife from the park. And I was at the park one time and and and he happened to the husband happened to be there instead of the wife. And we started chatting and he was like, Oh, you know my wife, blah blah blah. And uh, you know, started talking about like the normal dad things about you know the real estate market in our local neighborhood and you know the interest rates that we bought our house at, just you know, very uninteresting stuff. And then he kind of says to me, uh, so is this all you do? And and I just I had a moment where the all I do, it just flashed through my head. It was just like the fights between my kids, the cleaning up, the late nights to get things ready for the next morning, the kicking the, you know, putting the house together, the various errands I ran around town. And I just said, yeah, this is this is all I do. But I don't have I well, I didn't know I didn't know what to say. I didn't feel like the I didn't feel the need in that moment to thin to thin stay-at-home parenthood. And and I and I did think that that question was interesting considering his his uh spouse was stay-at-home.

SPEAKER_03: 56:57

So you know some insight into their their deck remotely.

SPEAKER_06: 57:03

So I I you know maybe I should have spoken up at that moment, but yeah, I did I didn't feel the the need to sort of d defend stay-at-home parenthood, you know. I like I said, I thought it was interesting because you know, I knew his spouse was a stay-at-home parent, but I don't, you know, I've I've met that dad one time. You know, it was like that was like the only, that was like the one interaction that I had with that that dad. So I don't I don't feel like I'm around a lot of people a lot to worry about what people think about me or what judgment I'm receiving and this, that, and the other. I mean, the most judgment and uh I've received is since I started posting on TikTok. That is what when I find like it wasn't a thing, you know. I I had the conversation with my wife where actually no, let's look, I'll talk about this. I I'd gone to therapy. Not specifically about my feelings about about around being a stay-at-home parent. Uh it was just some other things that happened. I was like, you know, I need to go to a little therapy. I I referred to it as uh just you know checking under the hood, make sure everything's okay. Yeah, tune up. So I, you know, I'm in therapy and I was telling my therapist, I said, I really enjoy being a stay-at-home parent. I really enjoy doing this job, even though I'm a I'm a man. And I feel guilty about it. I feel guilty that I'm enjoying this. I I feel you know, I I knew one other I I don't know if it's fair to call help me out. There's a a phrase that people are using now for the parent that's doing a lot of the default parent? Default parent. That's thank you very much. So there was another dad in the old building that I used to live in. He was the default parent. He he worked, but he he worked mostly at night, and but he was the default parent. He was the parent during the day, and he had a lot of uh shame and embarrassment around him being the default parent. He he talked about you know going to the park, and it was only him and you know, this is his words, not mine, only him and all the nannies. And that just that made him feel really bad. And he said he would talk about next year is the year that he's gonna get in shape, he's gonna turn his career around, he's gonna make more money. Hit he had all these things that he wanted to do, but I think all of this was being motivated by the fact that he was a little embarrassed about being a stay-at-home dad or being the a default parent. And I I was just like, I don't, I don't mind it. I really don't mind being the default parent. I don't really mind being the go-to for when people get sick or people need to get picked up or who we need to call when there's a pro whatever. Like, I I really don't mind it, but I feel like other people want me to mind it, other people want me to be embarrassed by it. And my wife said to me, Well, I I don't care. And I was like, Well, yeah, that's like that's the only thing that that mattered that should matter to me is that she she Don't care. She doesn't mind. She has she gets such a relief from having me be the stay-at-home parent, having me be the default parent, having me be the point person for various things, and she can she's relieved of that mental load. That so why do why would I care what other people think? And I that that I just say that works for us. That's what's working for us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:55

Yeah. I think being a stay-at-home parent or just the default parent is so much more enjoyable when you have a partner who values it and sees it and acknowledges it too. I think that's like such a crucial piece of this.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:09

Yeah. I mean, she I I I always say this my my wife was going to find success without me. She will say her her ability to get be successful is because of our partnership, because she just she had someone that was able to relieve her of so much of domestic life that it just it freed up a lot of mental space for her to be able to balance motherhood and her workplace uh in a way that was healthy for her. And I I as as challenging as uh being a stay-at-home parent is, I do not want to be in the position that she's in. She the moment she goes to work and she is dealing with life and death situations all the time, she's dealing with uh families that are upset, she's dealing with challenging patient situations, and the moment she comes home, the moment she hits that door threshold, she is now the default parent, you know, and to have the work experience, and then like the moment you hit the door, you got to clock in, you got to do that mom thing. And you know, I'm not gonna lie, I'll take advantage. It's like the boys are all about her and they want to ask her questions, they want to show her stuff. This from school, mom, look what I found. Blah, blah, blah. And I'll, you know, I'll pull out the phone, I'll be on TikTok. I'm like, all right, some somebody's here to relieve me for a little bit. So, you know, it really is like a you know, as as as challenging as the stay-at-home parent part is, she's got the work experience, she hits the door at six o'clock, and then she's got like the mom experience that she has to take all the way up until bedtime. And I don't I don't know what you all, how you all navigated your bedtime routine. We messed up a long time ago. We have to lay with our kids so do we until they fall asleep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:13

Oh, we have to sleep with my son.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:15

You like you you'll be like asleep asleep?

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:18

Yeah, we have to sleep. He'll wake up because like I'll put him to bed, I wake him up, or I'll wake up, do stuff around the house, and then at like 11, he'll cry for me, and it has to be whoever put him to bed has to be the one to sleep with him, which it's always me. But we also have an aging cat who meows all the time. And so we now fight because I got we got rid of our guest bed to turn it into an office for my husband, and we fight to sleep with my son now because it's like, okay, you're gonna get better rest if you sleep with him. But so that's why we haven't re-sleep trained because we have an 18-year-old cat. I gave her melatonin last night so I could get a good night's sleep. Like, yeah. I this you have to lay with both of your kids, so how do you do it? You both have to be a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:54

No, we're both in, we're both in there. Like she's over, she's over in one bed doing the wordle, and I'm over in another bed, like, you know, looking at TikToks or, you know, searching for you know, furniture on offer up, and like we just do that until they fall asleep. Some nights are more challenging than others. Hopefully, if we've done everything right, like we can get them asleep like within 30 minutes of bedtime and we can actually like have a minute to ourselves. But for some reason, every once in a while they're not going to bed till 9:30, 10, and we're laying in that bed an hour and a half, two hours.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:28

I would say the call map. Do the call map. There are sleep stories for kids.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:35

Depending on, yeah, we have it th we go through Kaiser, and so call map is free for any Kaiser members, um, not NAD. And we I read him two books at night, and then I put on, he gets to pick through like four different calm stories and puts him to sleep like that. There's like and there are four kids, so you don't have to worry, just don't do like the pop troll and stuff, but I do like the slower ones like puss and boots or Jack and the Bean stuff. And he, I bet you I'm gonna have to hear report back because he'll be asleep in like 10 minutes. Because once we do the two books, really lay down. I still have to stay with him, but lay down, listen to that story, and then they'll be out.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05:15

What let me ask you all this. This is I know this is anecdotal. I, you know, I don't know if there's any studies out there regarding this, but I feel like a lot of the millennial parents that I know are doing this. And like, how how did this happen? How did how did we all end up in this position that we're all laying with our kids until they are? Sarah, this one's for you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:36

You know this, you're in the space. I don't know. I mean, my parents did that with me too.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05:40

So really, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:42

But I'm also an only child, so oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:05:45

Yeah, I you know, we had um I remember my parents reading me books, you know, a couple books, and it was just like, all right, good night. And they would leave the room and I lay there and eventually fall asleep. And you know, we had the thing where they would just we'd put them down to bed and we'd make sure they'd okay, and then we'd leave the room and they just keep coming back and forth, back and forth. And we eventually just like gave up and we just stayed in that room. And I feel like I know so many parents that are also doing this, and we and we thought my wife and I thought it was embarrassing. We was like, we must have messed up somewhere if we did something wrong, and we didn't really like to tell people, but then every once in a while we may get a little bit more comfortable with another parent. We'll talk about it, and we find out like everybody we know is laying with their kid until they're asleep. And I remember I met this woman one time that her kid was 11, and she said, I'm still laying with them until they fall asleep. And I was like, That's that sound at the time, that sounded insane to me. But I'm worried now that like I'm nowhere near any sort of like balanced sleep routine where I can say, like, okay, you're good, you have your things, you have your water, you've had your stories. All right, dad's gonna go to bed. It it feels like it feels like until he goes off to college, I'm gonna be doing this. I don't know. Like, yeah, or it's gonna be peer pressure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:19

It's peer pressure that's gonna get him out.

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:21

Like, yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:24

My son's already starting to get told he likes to wear pink, like Sky, you know, from Paw Patrol. And like he has like pink shoes, and like the kids make fun of him. And my husband's thrilled about it because he's like, good, I want to get bullied out of him, so he like doesn't wear that stuff anymore. Um, but the the what I have heard is that they just one day stop. I also slept with my mom. We only had one bed though, and like a one-bedroom apartment. So I remember she'd lay down with me, I'd go to sleep, and then I would wake up because she'd be off and she'd have to come back in with me. So I I think this has been happening and people just didn't talk about it. I mean, if you think about other cultures, they co-sleep and and Western culture is the one that doesn't because we all need to go back to work on our computers or we're you know, like so. I kind of feel like it's something that we shouldn't be embarrassed about because who wouldn't want to sleep with their mom or dad or you know, like how you don't get to see them as much. I I don't know. I have changed my no, that's an excellent point.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:22

I mean, I know for um I know because we will switch off and on, and I know that uh mom is is the prized one uh at bedtime. They often want to lay with her because and that makes sense to me because they haven't seen her, you know, that time between after school and and when she comes home. So I that makes a lot of sense to me, but the end doesn't feel near. So I you know, maybe somewhere around middle school they'll switch it up on me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:50

It doesn't feel near for us either. We're in the same boat.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:54

Once they hit puberty, I think they will want to stop.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:58

Yeah, yeah, you're probably right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:59

You're probably like it's just gonna be yeah. Now I'm looking at it. I used to get so annoyed, and now I'm looking at it. I've switched since I've started staying home, and I'm like, I'm very lucky that I get to have this snuggle time. But when I was working, I did not feel that way because I was so burnt out and touched out, and I just I was like, get away from me. So I I know so many parents who are listening to that probably feel that way who are like just go the fuck to sleep.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:26

And I I And there are still nights I feel like that, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:29

Oh yeah. I speaking for my wife and myself, I I hate to admit this. I think also to if I have to admit it, I think we respectably enjoy the the time to decompress. You know, while they're we're waiting while they're rolled over, we're sort of waiting for them to go, you know, to deep sleep. It's like it's time for us to just do pointless and useless things online that we like, you know, the second I leave that room, I start thinking, okay, let me get a load of laundry in real quick. All right, that there's a load in the dryer. Let me put that. Oh, I forgot to wash the lunch boxes, let me empty the sink real quick. You know, it's like the checklist of things is is waiting for me once I leave that room. And I think that I kind of enjoy being able to sit there and maybe watch TikTok or you know, yeah, you gotta love it when people put captions on.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:31

Sometimes I like the captions don't come on, and I'm like, come on, I want to know what you're saying. I'm trying to watch my shows.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:37

Sometimes I have I've had I've had a couple people reach out to me and say, like, oh, uh can you give me some tips on growth? And and uh I'm like, I I don't have any tips on growth. I I wouldn't know how to do it, but I will say this put those captions on so I have something to read. I want to know what you're doing because I can't turn the volume up. So if you're in something, I I've gotten pretty good at reading and I've gotten pretty good at remembering to bring my glasses to bedtime. If you have your captions on, I will watch your video and I will engage with it. So just put put the captions on for all those parents laying in bed trying to get our kids to sleep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:16

See, and this is proof everyone is doing it. This is this is proof. All parents with young kids are laying in bed, scrolling on TikTok while their kids are trying to fall asleep and beyond.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:25

Yeah, it's the I I think that for me that's the best scroll because I don't like I'm I have to be there. I have to be static. I I I can't go anywhere. I I can't move. I I can't take of any, and I find myself, if I sit for a minute at home and I'm looking at my phone for whatever, I then sort of think, Brain, you have something to do. Get up, go do that, go do that thing, go take care of that. So put the capsules on, please, people.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:53

And on that note, I know we are so over time, but we like to ask two questions. And I feel like we could probably do, I feel like we need like a tips video from stay for stay-at-home parents because I, yeah, I could use tips like I want your checklist because I we're always by the skin of our teeth just arriving to school, and we don't have a checklist, even if I get everything ready, still forget stuff. Like this morning, it was raining. I just walked off the car yesterday, so of course it decided to rain. Um and I didn't have a jacket, and I'm like, I never even thought that in September in because that this is like our summer right now, September and October Bay Area. You probably know from your time in San Francisco, but that's when it gets warm. So I'm like, why is it raining? Um, and yeah, so we're always literally, I'm like, you're about to have to go to the principal's office every single day. So I could I could really use your checklist.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:42

I I I make mistakes too, and I you I I saw a TikTok from you recently, and I really empathized with that word. You said you forgot a I think a sweatshirt.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:52

Sweatshirt and water bottle. I filled it up and I left it by the front door, and I left his sweatshirt right next to it at the front door.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:59

It completely changes your day. Just that little mistake. It's like, okay, now I've added 45 minutes to an hour of wasted time because I forgot that one thing. Because you have you gotta go back and get it. Yeah, you go back and get it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:13

So well, and then they feel forgotten. And then my son, they wouldn't let him have pizza on Friday because he wasn't on the list even though we paid for it. So he forgot, got forgotten twice that day. So then I'm thinking about the like long-term consequences of my actions, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I uh yeah, it I've I I we'll talk about a checklist at some point.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:35

Yeah, I I I hope to see a TikTok on it because I feel like so many of us could benefit because I'm like, I can't. Zara ha seems to have no problem with this. Like, I've asked her about like how does how does she allocate her time and stuff? Because I'm like, I can't get all my stuff done in a day. And it doesn't seem like this is an issue for you, Zara.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:52

Are you an early riser or absolutely not?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:56

I am the last possible minute. I'm not a morning person, but I will say I worked as a journalist for a long time, so I'm really really efficient.

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:04

Deadlines. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:06

I went to school for journalists. I guess I wasn't a journalist, but like I've I also went to school for it, and I I feel like yeah. I'm just looking around my house being like, I probably shouldn't have started a side business, is probably where I went wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:21

But also for me, my husband works from home, so he helps a lot with the morning routine. He actually makes breakfast for the kids every day. If he travels, I like we're buying a big box of muffins. We're having those for breakfast every day. If he's home, he's like making pancakes from scratch.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:39

Oh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:39

So that helps our morning routine a lot.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:42

And um last week he was gone and I forgot their water bottles and I had to take them back to Oh, I mean, I know, like, but like this is not because our is like not as type B as me. She's like more in the like a normal functioning human.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:57

Oh, that makes me feel so much better. But I had one of those moments when I took them back that I was like, I'm so lucky to be able to do this. Yeah, that I'm so lucky to be able to just take it back to them. And there's some other stuff going on at my kids' school that influenced me feeling that way, which we can talk about offline a little bit.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:16

But I I remember one time, uh, I'm trying to think, I don't have anything that traces back to my school or anything in in my videos, but I remember one time dropping off my kid, and it was another parent dropping off their kid, and they uh on Mondays for the younger, when my kids were younger, you're supposed to bring their pillow and blanket home. Supposed to bring it home on Friday, wash it, bring it back on Monday. And uh this parent was dropping off their kid, and they said, uh I forgot I forgot their pillow and blanket. And they go, like, well, I guess they're not taking a nap today, and just left. And that I mean, that's one that's one way you handle it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:02

But like just that's how my husband would handle it. He'd be like, so what? It's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:07

Because, you know, like that that time to run back, like you know, I I feel like the the margins are so thin, uh, there's not a lot of room for a mistake, especially if you're expected to be at an office or you have a meeting in the morning, whatever, that that time spent to be able to drop everything and say, all right, let me run back home to go grab that bag or pillow or whatever, it's just not there. But I I like that I could do that. I like that, I mean, it's annoying, don't get me wrong, it's annoying that I made, you know, this small mistake that really changes like how the rest of my day lays out. But it I like being able to say, like, okay, I I messed up and I can go fix that mistake. And then the other day I totally forgot his snack. And uh the school called me and said, hey, we just want to make sure you're not picking them up early because you didn't bring any snacks. And I said, I'm so sorry, I'll be right there. And I got off the phone and they they had to call me back to say, no, we have snacks here for him. It's just we just wanted to make sure that that was okay. And I was just like, oh, I'm just like I'm just so ready to be there, available for my kids. So um, yeah, making those little mistakes, they can change things for you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:23

Yeah, yeah. It's time for my offensive question, not the two on the side. No, that we always ask because I offline I and Zara, I I know or we're you probably have to pick up your kids right now, but um I have like 20 minutes. 20 minutes okay. Zara and I, Zara still does freelancing on the side. I was able to stay at home and not make an income for two weeks before I had a total panic attack and started a whole reselling business. So I wanna I want to understand like kind of how you guys do your finances. And do you ever feel like weird about it? And are you ever like, uh, maybe I should go whatever it is, work back at a restaurant again for a day a week or something? Did does that ever cross your mind? And if it does, how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:07

So our finances are a hundred percent commingled because I don't make any money uh at all. Uh even when uh occasionally I'll work as an uh an actor in commercials or I'll do like prank work and stuff like that. I'll make a little bit of money and it it's a dr it's a drop in a in the bucket uh in comparison to our our household uh income. I I do have a little bit of shame that comes with the confidence boost I get from earning a paycheck. It's always the whenever I I work, it's always the same thing. I I'm thrilled that I booked a job. I worked a job, which is like, oh, it's it's nice to get back to work a little bit. And then the net 30 comes in, you know, the the time passes, and that check comes in the mail, and I am embarrassed to say that I feel slightly valuable again. And the reason why I'm embarrassed to say that is because I've had so many conversations about this with my wife, where she's like, you do not have to earn any money, you're not valuable to this family based on the money that you earn. If you want to go out and spend on this, that, or whatever for yourself, just go ahead and do it. You don't need these checks to make you feel valuable. And even though we had that conversation, I have to admit that when I do book a gig, you know, like shout out to my, you know, my first brand partnership, my friends at Planet Box, booking something and working with a brand and and being able to and know that income's coming in, it's like, oh, nice. I can I can buy whatever I want. I could buy whatever I want today. Yeah. But but for whatever reason, be because I've kind of been trained in a certain way of understanding finances for a very long time, is that I think like I need to earn it myself. But the the truth of the matter is, is that our finances have to be completely commingled because that's the only way that it works for us. And I think that my wife and have I have a good partnership that, you know, she's earning and con I I describe it that this way is that I'm Congress and uh I I control the purse and she's president, she has veto power, right? So I I'm the one that's sort of having an understanding of how uh you know how the budget is to be spent. And and we do, we we we do the we we call it an audit once a year. We'll sit down and we'll literally look at everything line by line and try to get an understanding of you know where our finances are. Are we are we saving the way we want? Are we discriminately spending the way we want? You know, we have a we we do like a full audit of it. But um it just it it works uh because it's all together and we are very much in communication about where money should go and how much we should spend on things. I had a conversation with her. Uh we we went away from my birthday this weekend, and we were talking about what's that that dollar amount based on your podcast that you did a couple days ago. We were talking about what is what is that dollar amount, and I was I was actually a little bit surprised that um her dollar amount of like uh what can be spent uh without us having to talk about it was a little bit higher than mine. And uh we were talking about personal things. Like if I decide to go out and buy a chair for the household, like we don't need to have that discussion. We've had this conversation about what can be spent on the house and this, this, that. But I was like, well, how much do you think it's like okay for us to spend on ourselves and not have a conversation about it? And she was like, I don't know,$500? And I was like, Oh wow, that's that's more than what I thought it was. I thought I thought the dollar amount was$400.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:37

But we Okay, so this is a thing. People don't just spend sixteen hundred dollars talking to their spouse, correct?

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:45

On yourself, on your face, so um the I I my my I I I hope I'm not giving away secrets here, but you know, my wife will you know treat herself to some beauty, you know, and uh I think I think uh being in the medical profession, uh she's been able to find affordable affordable options for that. But I mean, I I don't uh yeah, I don't we don't really have individual big dollar items that they're saying I overspend on my Botox. No, no, no, that's not no that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying like we it we've never had a uh a financial circumstance come up where we really have to like talk about what is and is not too much.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:40

Yeah. I I do overspend on my Botox. This has been determined thanks to TikTok. Like I had no idea I was, and so I think that I like that you guys talked about the number and being 400 and 500 because I I was telling my friends over here, like in real life, I was like, people don't talk about finances as much as you think they do in their relationships. And they're like, no, we do. I'm like, tell me about the conversation. They're like, oh, well, we generally do. Like, tell me about it. Um because I think so many people don't talk about money and don't talk about finances because it is like rude and offensive, which is why I warned you that I was gonna ask offensive questions. But I find it so fascinating because it's like you think you talk about it, and it's like, okay, well, we generally talk about it. But when it gets down to brass tacks, it's like, okay, what is your number that you think I can spend? What is, you know, okay, and Zara and I both have around the same. It's like a thousand dollars. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:31

But I think for circumstantial, yeah. Like obviously, if I like, you know, need something for the kids or like it's a necessity, like you're just gonna spend it and you're not gonna make the call. But but also like I'm such an overthinker that I have to hem and haw about every little thing I buy. So I will call my husband for everything and like you know, ask him what he thinks.

SPEAKER_06: 1:24:52

I the the the thing that I we meet and her both do that I I wish we would have do is that we we have this sort of justification conversation that we have, even with like tiny things, like uh, you know, I got myself like a a sock haul from Uniquo.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:12

Yeah, because it's not an expensive place, we're not talking bombas here, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:17

And it was, you know, that I their socks were on sale and I got some, and then the package got here. I was like, you know, I needed some socks because you know the pair, and it's like, why am I justifying but but she'll do the same thing, you know, she'll you know, she'll buy something from somewhere. It's like, well, I need it, and it's like, well, we don't have to do that. We've had a conversation about how you know it it's okay to spend we, you know, a lot you were talking about brass tax. We've had a lot of conversations about the brass tax.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:48

We've had a lot of conversations about how much should go to the you know, the the household money, how much should go into savings, how much should go into this category, how much should we be spending on you? We like we talk about those things in really excruciating details. And I mean, like, you know, I get sweaty thinking about the audit because it's like we're really about to have a gut check. It's like, oh, how much should I spend on eBay this year? And let's, you know, let's really talk about it. But I think having those conversations about the specificity of our spending has helped us when it comes time to like, you know, when she goes, like she takes like a couple girls' trips a year, and I'll take you know, my guide trips a couple times a year. And it's like we already know how much is okay to spend on those things because we've had the conversation already. We already know like what is okay. So it's like I'm not gonna and you know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm I'm not gonna get the the sweet at Caesars, you know, out of nowhere because I I know exactly what is a uh a good dollar amount to spend on this sort of thing. So I think having in-depth conversations about finances for us has been really, really helpful.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:02

Did you have those prior to you staying at home? Being a stay-at-home parent? Uh as detailed.

SPEAKER_06: 1:27:11

Uh no, I wouldn't say that that we've had it. I think that buying our first home really because we we we had we had some debt that we took on coming back from San Francisco. A little embarrassing, but it's the truth. We had some credit card debt.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:29

Most people do.

SPEAKER_06: 1:27:30

We we had some student loans. Uh and we were just barely making ends meet because even though she was working as a fellow or earning a salary as a fellow, it's a it's a relatively modest salary, especially living in a big city. So it it's we had to start early about having a conversation about what money goes where. And I think that as we when we bought the house, like when we bought our house, our first house, we just felt like we were just love, we can't afford a house. We shouldn't be buying a house is a terrible financial mistake. But I think having the having those audits and really talking about our finances helped us understand, like, oh, we do have the means and income to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:14

Yeah. I think that's when we first started having conversations about income and things like that and my student loans. And I yeah, this is now a finance podcast, everyone.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:23

Um also, Sam, I think people came for you in that TikTok because they assumed that only you are the one who has to run things by your husband. I think that if it's both parties like mutually saying, yeah, we have equal decision-making power and we both have to be respectful of each other, I think that's a completely different situation than like also one person having all the power.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:47

Yeah. Also, none of those people would spend sixteen hundred dollars without talking to their spouse and not have a fight cost. I don't think. Like if my husband went and spent sixteen hundred dollars, he's like, imagine if I want to put pebble beach engulfed four times a year. He's like, that's outrageous. He's like, you should be upset. So yeah, I just I don't think people are kind of like Yeah. I mean, I then the weird thing is like Pete's has a cold brew September thing right now where you can get cold brew every day for 30 days for a dollar a day. So it's like a thirty for$30. And I was like, should I buy this? And he's like, what do you what do you mean? He's like, it's$30. What are you talking about? So it's like that kind of stuff where I'm like, I don't have to ask him, and he's like, What why are you even talking to me? But I'm like, is this am I being dumb spending something like this, but then a$1600? Yeah, anyway, finances are complicated.

SPEAKER_06: 1:29:36

Well, well, I mean, I can imagine though, when you're, you know, you were working in corporate America, you probably had no.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:46

I grew up poor too, so I knew nothing about finances. So it's like I just bought whatever I wanted.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:51

And I still feel it's a shitty feeling when you're surprised by how expensive something is. You know, like your Daxify story. What I'm sure when you got that bill and it was like, what? I wasn't you weren't?

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:02

No, because I've been to her like four times now, so I know that it's gonna be that. Um, but now I've shopped around, so that will be different. Zara, I know you have to go pick up your kids, and we all know that you don't want to be late to that. And I want to get these last two questions in because we ask everybody these two questions. So I'm gonna change it up a little bit. What would you what advice actually no? What advice would you give a dad coming? into fatherhood and potentially a dad who might want to be a stay-at-home dad as like a side option if you want to do that one too.

SPEAKER_06: 1:30:35

Yeah. Um I just get rid of all ego. Uh it's not necessary. Um be present and and enjoy your time with your kids. That's my best piece of advice.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:49

That's good advice for everyone. What's a part of fatherhood that's brought you unexpected joy?

SPEAKER_06: 1:30:55

The part of fatherhood that's brought me unexpected joy. Uh I would say um getting uh how do I say this? Getting into how getting into IP that I did not think I would care about. And and what I mean about that is uh I am there was a time that I was really into the Octonauts. Are you familiar with the Octonauts? I know gently they're kind of a uh a marine they're like an underwater sort of yeah navy team and uh my kid didn't watch the cartoon that much but he that he really enjoyed all the toys so then I really enjoyed learning about the dynamics of the different characters and the relationships and who did what so learning about like Octonauts is not a thing that I would expect to get into. And I think the other thing that I really like about it is sort of teaching my kid about IP that I know about. So my uh youngest is really into Spider-Man I know a great deal about Spider-Man and all the various Spider people and I've been able to teach him about that and I've gotten quite a bit of joy out of that but um I can't say that I have anything that's like totally unexpected.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:17

That's okay. Yeah I think that's a good one. Also if you ever make a video please let me know because my son is always like what do you know about Spider-Man mom? And I'm like nothing. And he and he's like so then he'll be like well what do you know a lot about and I'm like clothes and he's like that's boring. I'm like yeah I and he's like what about unicorns? What about narwhals?

SPEAKER_06: 1:32:36

Daddy knows about all this stuff and I'm like oh God I know nothing about anything interesting to a boy but I can like yeah I you know like some of those things just got put on the back burner for a long time and it just like didn't think about you know childish things. But then when the kids go around you could like fully dive deep into them and just be like yeah I'm really into I'm really into Miles Morales right now and we could talk about his relationship to the other Peter Parker from the other universe. We could talk about those things now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:09

I now have to go look all these up because I think that would bring my son a lot of joy as if I knew anything about the Spideyverse.

SPEAKER_06: 1:33:16

It's literally endless there is there is a different type of spider person for every there's samurai spider people there are there's a there's a car named that's Spider-Man but it's in the form of a car his name is Peter Parked car uh there's Peter Porker who is a pig who was also Spider-Man there's all I've seen that one I got very confused by that one.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:40

Okay so so now I have some homework okay okay so it sounds like your joy though is like learning from your child and being able to teach your children things that like you have.

SPEAKER_06: 1:33:50

Yeah I I you know I think um I think I have a a slightly immature mind and so it's it's easy for me to like get on the level of a kid and really enjoy I I I miss those things from my childhood. I miss being into toys and action figures and collecting things and stuff like that. And I think having kids has just been an excuse to like really lean into it and really get back to it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:17

Yeah we've had dad say that before too um that is fun. All right well I really enjoyed the time I know we took up a lot more time than we reserved you for and Zara's got to go pick up her kids. So thank you so much for being here. We'll link this in the show notes but where can people find you to follow you?

SPEAKER_06: 1:34:35

Uh I'm on TikTok at sad not sad that's S A H D not S A D on TikTok.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34:44

Awesome. And again we'll link it in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here Brandon thank you thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:34:50

It's been a pleasure this was so fun