The Truth About: Executive Function in Teens with Gayle Alexander

You can feel it in families right now: everyone is tired, kids are wired, and a simple “How was school?” gets you absolutely nowhere. We sit down with Gayle Alexander, a licensed professional counselor who works with teens, young adults, and parents, to unpack what actually helps kids talk and what quietly shuts them down. We get practical about the moments that matter most like the car ride home, the bedtime confession, and the first sentence you say when your child finally opens up.

We also go straight to the big stressors shaping teen mental health: smartphones, social media, sleep loss, comparison, and the anxiety loop of constant dopamine hits. Gail explains why the issue is not a phone call or a text; it is unlimited internet access in a developing brain, plus the pressure to look perfect. We talk about realistic screen time boundaries, why devices should stay out of bedrooms at night, and how family dinners with no phones can rebuild connection without turning into an interrogation.

Then we zoom out to what’s missing for a lot of kids and parents: community. Gail shares how Project Safe creates in-person support through group therapy and family work, and why being around peers helps teens feel less alone while they learn communication and coping skills. We also touch on vaping, marijuana, and other ways kids numb discomfort, plus what parents can watch for and how to start hard conversations without blowing up trust.

If you want better conversations, calmer boundaries, and tools that work in real life, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a parent friend, and leave a review with the one rule or question you’re going to try this week.

Transcript

Meet The Counselor And The Goal

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome back to Do You Want the Truth? Today we have Gail Alexander, who is a licensed professional counselor. She completed her master's in education and human development and education counseling from the George Washington University, has a degree in biochemistry from UC San Diego, and she concentrates on mood management, executive functioning management, eating disorders and body image, coping skills, and a swath of other different things. And you specifically with children, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I teens and young adults, and then I do a lot of parent work as well. So we do it at the practice that I own, we have eight years up all the way through, you know, young adults and families, but my specialty is adolescents and young adults and family work.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Okay. So welcome to the pod. I'm so excited to have you. And Zara is not here today. Her uh, she is dealing with a sick family member, helping, I shouldn't say dealing with. Um she's helping a sick family member. So thank you so much for taking the time. And I'm so excited to get into these things. Um, I was one of those kids who was forced into therapy when I was eight and I didn't speak. And I've been, you know, going through therapy and I I'm sure it's changed a lot, but um, it kind of reminds me of when you ask your kid what they did today at school. Like you have to ask the right questions in order to get people, especially children, to open up.

Questions That Actually Get Answers

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yes. Yeah, it's yeah, absolutely right. Like children are not really gonna just sit and have a talk therapy session necessarily. They their brains don't necessarily work that way. They need to kind of have movement and do different things. And and if you just ask these sort of sometimes again, you want to ask open-ended questions, right? But if you ask two open-ended questions, they're not really gonna know how to answer that. So it does take someone who kind of really can get inside that little kid head to help them understand really what you're trying to figure out, you know. Like people, like I don't say like, how are you feeling? A teenager's gonna oh God, right. They don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

So it's more like An adult doesn't even know how we're feeling.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Oh, that's so true, Sam. That is so true. And I think that's just such a loaded question. And it's, you know, the feelings are important for sure, but I think there's all this other stuff, you know, your feelings are your feelings, but you also have your thoughts about it. You also have how your body is managing it, and then you have behavioral traits that you engage in. So it's more than just something that you feel. So you're absolutely right about that.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, I have to ask, how much damage am I doing to my five-year-old? Ever since he could talk, I've always asked him who got in trouble at school. And it's really like we have such all the parents are shocked at how much he tells us because I know everything going on with all his friends and him. He tells on himself. And none of the other parents in our class can get their kids to talk, boys or girls. Yeah. And so I'm like, oh yeah, did you hear so-and-so? They play married every day and so-and-so did it. And he's in kindergarten, right? And I'm like, that little girl, your little girl's kissing everyone, and I know everything, and they're like, What? But I started by saying who got in trouble today. I've expanded since then, but how much have I damaged him?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Uh you haven't damaged it at all because you're opening lines of communication. And that is, I think, the best thing that you can do. If you were pressing him for information, you know, then I might say to you, you know, be a little more mindful if you know if he feels sort of forced into that. But the fact that he loves to communicate and you were a concerned parent who's checking in and maybe even asking the hard questions about who got in trouble today, see, that's exactly a really good question to ask because it's still open-ended, but you had a very specific uh target about that. And that, you know, if you just said, How is your day today? It's a little harder for him to answer. But if you come in of like who got in trouble, he can give you concrete information. And I think the fact that you're opening lines of communication is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Okay. So yeah, because he is quite the gossip. But again, he always tells on himself too. So that's the and I and I saw this woman on TikTok, and she was saying that her friend's mom when she was a kid, would pick them up, not speak to them in the car, just hand them snacks, hand them drinks, and be quiet. And I have kind of adopted that. Like I'll ask him how his day was, and then I just give him a snacks, and we just sit there and he listens to whatever. Sometimes it's silent, but I have noticed that it gets them to open up to you later. And like at the end of the trip, he'll start telling me things. But yeah, do you hear this from parents too? Or in your approach? Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

And and later on, if you're doing any kind of carpool situation, absolutely just be quiet and listen because they'll start talking. Now, full disclosure, these days they're texting next to each other and maybe they're not talking. So they're, you know, you're not, they're savvy enough to know parents are listening, so they're going to text it to each other, sit next to each other. But you gain so much information just by listening. And look, parents have to talk and tell kids things. It's our job to give them structure and rules and guidance and all that. But sitting back and listening is such a valuable tool because one, it allows them space to figure out what they think and feel instead of us telling us what they think and feel. It opens lines of communication, you're not talking over them. And what they learn from that is that you actually value what they think and feel. You don't have to agree with them. You know, again, a five-year-old's not going to have the logic of a, you know, 25-year-old, but just allowing them to explore and share that with you and have that unconditional love that you love, what they think and feel, is has so much value for kids. And then again, as they get older, sitting back and just listening and being that carpool parent oftentimes can gather you great information and watching body language, you know, yeah, an important piece as well. So I think that's totally spot on, Sam.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah. The body language thing, yeah, that is something that I have noticed because they do, they will tell you so much. Like I know when he gets in the car, if something bad happened at school, but he often won't tell me until, you know, I'm putting him to bed and then he just unloads it all, which I know is really common, right? Yes.

Car Rides, Bedtime, And Real Listening

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Because all their all the distractions are gone and all the ability to sort of hold it together is gone when you're tired and late at night and you feel safe and it's your bed and and your home and it's a safety thing. I remember with um I I two boys and then a girl, and the two boys are close and age, there's a little gap. And you know, you'd be 10 o'clock at night, you're an exhausted parent, and you're starting to shut that door, and out comes something, or a functional source, and you're like, oh, I gotta attend to this. And that really is that time where they feel safe and can open up and share. And sometimes it's hard because we're tired. We are human beings as well. But if you know, you can say to yourself, like, 10 minutes of quality time right now gain you so much down the road. It's it's worth putting on that, you know, energy face and going back in and sitting and listening. That is really so key. I think so many kids and young adults feel like they are not heard, that they are told what to do, how to feel. And, you know, we did have a generation of parents, my, my, myself included, my oldest is 33, where we had solved all their problems for them. We didn't mean to, we didn't mean to harm them. But what we taught them was one, you're not, I don't think you're capable of solving a problem because I'm gonna solve it for you. And two, the other thing is they now can't handle difficult emotions or difficult things because it was done for them. Again, I make broad statements, obviously they can and do, but it's this piece of, I don't know how to do it. I was always, it was always handled for me. I don't know how to handle discomfort. I don't know how to handle a setback. I don't know how to handle an anxious feeling or a sad feeling. And and so it's really it's much better to allow them to experience some of that. So to your point, it's like sitting back and listening and saying, we know, well, what do you think and what would you do? You're still gonna want to guide them. This, you know, we don't want to take so far of a step back that we don't have any thoughts and feelings and opinions. We're the parents. We're allowed to set rules, we're sad to have boundaries. Like that's parenting. But allowing your kid to have a voice, they they often don't feel like anybody is listening. And I think that is so key for kids to feel heard. Well, for humans, right? To feel heard.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Totally. And then the not reacting when they unload on you at night, too, is if they tell you they did something bad, it's like, okay, we'll talk about it tomorrow because otherwise it like damages that connection.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah. And one of my favorite phrases is the first thing you say is thank you for telling me. You know, I I know that was probably hard. We we do need to talk about it. But right now, we're just gonna rest and sleep. And thank you for telling me. We'll talk about this tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. I think that's a perfect way to do it. Yeah, I like that. And something you said about, you know, are you Gen X? Yeah, uh, yeah. Okay. We'll try to think I'm yes, yes. Or like cus, are you cusp of like millennial and definitely Gen X, yeah. Okay, you're Gen X. Um I'm Cusp of Millennial and Gen X. I'm the 1983. And something I've been noticing in kids is like their confidence when you do everything for them. And I know Dr. Eamon has a lot of things about him, but something he said that I actually really liked because I don't agree with many of the things, but he said, when you do everything for your kids, you're stealing their confidence and it makes you feel good, but it actually takes their confidence away. And I think that's a really good way. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah, and that's exactly what I'm saying. What what we did is it's managing, it manages my anxiety if I solve it for you. Then I'm not anxious about it. I'm not worried that you're gonna get a C and never get into college. But now what I've done is tell you that that's what I'm worried about. So now you're worried about that. Yeah. And then they don't learn to do it themselves. So that really is true. They have to learn to do things themselves. And I think the hardest part as a parent sometimes is to step back and watch them fail. And if you live in any kind of area that is a high performing, you know, again, I live right outside of DC. I mean, oof, talk about achievement center. But literally the epicenter. Right. We have to allow them to fail sometimes. But the problem is it depends, look, it depends on the consequences. We don't want them to fail and get a DUI. That's that's like, look, these are our rules. We don't allow that. That's not legal, yada yada. But you know, do we want, you know, did you did you do poorly on an exam or turn something in and you're gonna learn that that didn't work so well? That has value. So I think we have to figure out how to help them learn to make mistakes because that's how you're gonna learn and that's how you're gonna gain confidence. So we managed our feelings by doing things for our kids, and that was not in the kids' best interest.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yeah, I find myself doing that a lot too, because I have a lot of anxiety and I have to really push myself to not because it's like, nope, you know, you figure it out. I'm gonna let you have, yeah, we had an hour tantrum the other day. I probably shouldn't even talk about this, but over him putting his own clothes on. And I was like, I'm not gonna do it for you anymore. Like, and it was a full hour. We missed a half of a play day, and I was like, no, like I'm like, we're just doing this, we're just gonna sit through. And then he was happy after, and we went about our day.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

But it is uh Well, they will test you. That's a really good example of, you know, I'll tell parents, you know, when you're gonna start to maybe set a new boundary or do something different, especially, you know, your strong-willed kids, which are harder to raise, but you know, they're they're fabulous adults. They they know how to stand up for themselves. They're going to test you. Be prepared for it. And if you cave that when they test you, even if you know caved at five minutes or caved at 50 minutes, you caved. They know that. And look, we we again, we're all human beings, we're gonna make mistakes. Okay, you're gonna cave, but really consistency is so key. That, and I will I will buffer that with it's really important to also sometimes be able to listen to a kid and go, you know what, you actually made a really valid point. I can see where you're coming from. I'm gonna shift a little bit because then they feel like they're being heard. And again, I don't mean to imply that parents should always give in to their kids. That's not what I'm saying. Right? We get to set the rules and that's how that goes. But sometimes being able to shift and compromise, being able to apologize, being able to say, you know what, gosh, mom kind of, you know, got a little angry. I think I was hungry or maybe I'd had a rough day at work, not oversharing, but letting them know I'm a human being. I have feelings, and I can come back and say, I'm sorry I didn't handle that well, teaches them to be able to say that. Because I think, especially in this world of social media, they feel like I have a lot of teenagers say I have to be perfect. And they'll they know logically that's not possible, but yet that's that feeling. I have to be perfect. Look at how perfect everybody is. And, you know, I sort of chuckle and be like, no, no, let me, they're not. And and I I can point, I can point out the cracks, but in their world, it feels like they are. So I think it's us role modeling that you don't have to be perfect. I think parents are afraid to let go of their power. And again, that's you know, being an inconsistent, wishy-washy parent is different than being a parent that can be real and honest and say, you know what, I kind of snapped out at you. I was having a bad day, that wasn't about you, or even saying, you know what, I got frustrated because, you know, we have a deal about this is that you're gonna unload the dishwasher and you're not holding up your end of the bargain, and this is how we work as a family. And, you know, I I shouldn't have yelled at you, but this is why I'm frustrated, right? I think it's okay to show how to be a human and how to manage feelings.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, that's a really good point, especially as we're all trying to figure it that out, because I feel like not all of us know how to do that. Right. Well, and it wasn't role model to a lot of us either, you know. So well, and our parents didn't know it, and our grandparents didn't know it. And right. And it it your comment made me think of my son the other day. We limit his screen time, and he's like, But you're on your phone all day. Like, why can't I? It's not fair. And I'm like, huh, that that's true. I'm like, okay, you make a good point. And you know, and or you know, when I wanted him to put on a some, you know, outfit, and he's like, I'm a different person than you. I don't want to wear that. And I'm like, okay, you know what? You are. But I think it is, I will say, with the amount of pressure that is on parents from so many, what is it, like 79% of households are dual income or 69 or something in in the US, and layoffs coming every day, and all of these like major pressures. I stopped working in corporate America about a year and a half ago. And the amount of almost like it's like a tea kettle, like the steam got let off. And so I am able to do these things, whereas before it would be like, you're in a timeout, you're done, you know, like just like that because I'm so stressed. Um, are you seeing that a lot with parents and families? Yes.

Stress, Screens, And Family Dinner Rules

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Families are spread really thin. They are exhausted. Everybody, either by choice, you know, because thank God women can have careers, or by uh um affordability, people have to have two incomes, but you know, so you're rolling in and you got to get dinner going, and homework's got to get started, and uh, and we're still thinking about all the things that we need to do. And I think it's this piece of I was actually on a different podcast, and one of the things I said was just giving five minutes of being able to, how can you mentally decompress and get yourself like, hey, what absolutely has to get done? How can we help each other and work as a family? And then where can I just show up as a parent and manage my emotions first before snapping out at my kid? Because again, we are human beings. So whether it's you took five minutes before starting dinner and upstairs, changing your clothes and you're doing some deep breathing and some dress work or whatever you need to do. Or again, you're you're carving out a very specific set homework time so that you have structure and a schedule, or people, family members can help out. Like, you know, this isn't just you know, parents doing everything or just one parent doing everything, but yes, I see, and then throw in sports, right? Or any other activities that are fun stuff, but kids, everybody is really tapped out and really overwhelmed. And it's tough. It's a really tough situation. Everybody's super, super busy, and it does put a strain on families. And, you know, back to your question about how come you get to be on your phone. One, I love that you were able to first of all say, like, gosh, good point. That's exactly what I was talking about earlier. But the other thing that I also tell parents to tell kids is, you know, your brain is still developing. Yeah, that was the next sentence. Mine is not. And so I have different commitments than you have. And part of my commitment might need to be to be checking on things. But again, so it's okay to say, hey, this is I'm in a different place than you are. That's why I get to do these things that are different. But also, I love that you're saying, you know what, you're right. I should probably put my phone down a little bit more. We're so connected now. And again, 30 years ago, I couldn't come home and do emails and I couldn't keep checking on my phone. And now we can, pros and cons, right? So it allows us to stay on top of stuff and get our stuff handled and sort of, you know, in this present moment, but it allows us to never take a break and never decompress. And I do think that's a really important thing for families, as much as you can come together with some dinner time. You can't do it every night, especially when you get older kids with sports and and the things that they're doing. But you got to have some family time. You got to have some family dinners and all the devices should be gone and it should be, this is what we're doing. It's not up for debate. We're gonna sit and enjoy, and it that's not the time to grill anybody. That's the time to just catch up. You know, hey, a high and a low of your day, or something interesting that happened today, or something that you anything you want to talk about. You know, it's like just, and everybody has their phones and devices put away, is has so much value. And, you know, the research coming out now on the screens and the devices, we we know we need to limit these. We know that we need to not, kids should not have smartphones before the ages of 12, 13, 14. They they don't need them. They might, they might need to have a phone to be able to reach a parent, especially again, as you say, parents are working and you know, for safety purposes, but they really shouldn't have a lot of access to the things that they've had access to. And it's hard. It took us all off by surprise. You know, it came so fast that we didn't really know how to put supports in place. Well, now we have longitudinal data about what that does to developing brains. So, you know, having really good limits on that is a smart thing to do. It doesn't mean they can't have it at all, right? Technology is here to stay, but having limits and saying this is what we do in our family, because they'll, you know, classically, well, Johnny gets his phone all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Oh, literally last night, so-and-so watches TV every day and so does so-and-so. And I was like, okay, well, we don't do that in our house.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

That's exactly what you say, Sam. You know, yeah. I grew up without part of my life without electricity, plumbing, like all of this stuff. And then once we did get all of that, I didn't have unlimited access to TV. And it has made me like a TV hound. Same with sugar. We didn't have access to sugar. And so we're kind of trying to thread the line because my husband has unlimited access to everything. He doesn't need sugar all the time, he doesn't need TV all the time. And it's interesting because it's like, how much do you restrict it so they don't become like little things?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yes. Well, I it it balance. That's really what it is. A little, you don't want them to feel so left out that they don't know what's going on and can't culturally with their friends and stuff. But they're absolutely, you are the parents. It's absolutely appropriate to put supports and lip how much they're on it, when they need to take a break, how how they engage their brain in other ways. Are they playing blocks? Are they reading books? Are they getting outside? It's really about balance. So to your point, it's not about never having it because then you want it and it becomes sort of this taboo thing that you really desperately want, but it shouldn't be unlimited access either. Yeah. Yeah. So you're yeah, you're setting up boundaries.

Smartphones, Dopamine, And Anxiety Loops

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I so I have a question. I don't know if you have heard of The Anxious Generation, that book. Yeah. So his can his thesis or conclusion, whatever, was that smartphones are causing anxiety in kids. Yes. And I get that, but I kind of, and I want to talk to him about this too. Why are we having smartphones? And I think part of the reason is is we're not in community anymore and we're not around family and we don't have support. So, like last night we have family come over every week and we watch Survivor. It's been going on for like 20 years, and we just took over the hosting gig. So it's very exciting. Love it. Love it. And my son just wanted to go outside and his grandma can't, she's not mobile. And so it's like, okay, well, let's turn on the TV. And it is because, you know, we didn't have anyone there to play with him. As soon as someone got there who could play with him, well, then the TV, you know, he was able to play and do that kind of stuff. Right. So I am curious about your thoughts on smartphones, social media, and that kind of intersection of like lack of village and lack of support.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

A hundred percent. And we are seeing that. I am seeing an increase of anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and self-harm. And not that it hasn't been around, it has, but the level that I'm seeing it is profound. And again, it's not about not having those things because they're here to stay. And if your kid isn't allowed to have them at all, they're gonna feel really, really left out. But it is damaging. And it's again, it's about balance what you're now starting to see. You know, look what Australia just did. No social media under the age of 16. I think the UK is trying to do the same thing. You know, America may be too a little independent to get something like that passed. But I think that's the right trend because it's not that it's a bad thing. You can connect with your friends and you get instant access to information. It's kind of cool, but it shouldn't be non-stop all the time because one, it's it's you're getting dopamine hits every time you do it. So you're you're increasing the need for dopamine, it becomes very addictive. Two, it's it's not reality. People are putting on like, here's my fake front. And I think people, even though logically, you may understand that, seeing it all the time makes you feel like you're left out and not not doing what everybody else is doing. And and then you get constant stimulation all the time, which is not healthy for our brains. Our brains need to slow down and relax and be okay. So again, I think it's about balance. And what my hope is that the trend with some of this shifting and some of the laws that they're trying to do is gonna make it more normal. Like my youngest, my daughter, when she was in ninth grade, she and one other girl were the only two that didn't have smartphones. And again, her dad and I were like, well, you're not getting one yet. But it what I what we realized then, the reason that we then did it is she couldn't get group texts because she didn't have a smartphone. So she was getting to the point where she's being left out. But if that's more normalized, let's say nobody gets smartphones till ninth grade, then they won't. Feel so left out because it'll be it'll be the norm. So my hope is that that's more what the trend is that no, you're not gonna be on social media until you're older. And then it's okay to be older and be on social media, and we're gonna teach you boundaries. And parents should have passwords. You know, kids, kids have fake accounts that parents don't know about. Like they're they're always gonna do these things, get away with things. That's part of normal teenage pushing and having a lot of things. Because they should. They should. Exactly. But I think parents need to be a little bit more aware of it and in the know and set boundaries. And what my hope is, again, as we normalize less of it, then that's just gonna be how it is for people. And it's not gonna, they're the kids that don't have it, that parents are not letting their kids have it, aren't gonna be the odd man out. That's gonna be the norm. So I do agree with what they're saying that that is increasing anxiety. And it's also then it's decreasing social skills, communication skills. They now don't have conversations, they text. Um, and again, don't get me wrong, like I'd much rather text than answer a phone call. You know, I can I can text and still be doing something else. So again, it's not that it's a bad thing, it's about balance and about teaching other things. And when all they do is sit on their phones and communicate that way or communicate through their friends that way, they don't ever leave their room, they don't ever get outside, they don't have to look somebody in the eye, they don't have to order a meal at the restaurant. Parents are doing it for them while they're sitting on their phones. That is creating a problem. They are overly stimulated, they are comparing themselves all the time to others. And what we've seen is this scarcity mindset has shown up. So not only is the anxiety and the depression grown, but it's a scarcity mindset. I'm never gonna have what Johnny has, I'm never gonna look like what Susie looks like. I'm never gonna get a boyfriend or a girlfriend, I'm never gonna do well on that in this class, I'm never gonna go to college. So then they give up. Well, why am I bothering? So instead of saying, I feel bad that this isn't happening, because that's okay thing to say, not all negative emotions are bad. Anxiety serves a purpose. Sadness serves a purpose. It helps you to problem solve. But when they go into it with a scarcity mindset, they don't problem solve, they give up. And that's where the damage shows up. So is that phone though, or is that social media? Well, they're combined, right? Because they all have social media on their phone. So sure, it's not the phone directly. You're right about that. Because if you need to be able to text a friend or make a phone call, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. But if you can be checking TikTok and checking Instagram, which again, love all these things, then you're constantly being fed stimulation over and over and over again. And phones should be out of the rooms at night. So it really is more of the, you're right, it's the smartphone, the internet capability on that phone that's really the problem. It's not the phone directly itself. If phones are just used for like, I'm texting my friends and I'm calling my like a dumb, like a dumb phone, like our old flip Nokia or whatever. Yes, exactly. And again, they should not be in their bedrooms at night. That you know, again, by the time they're reaching.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Parents, all of us. Like, here's we all have this issue. Like, I am addicted to my phone, like very much. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

I absolutely agree with you. And one of the things I'm working on is not to roll over in bed and instantly check email. They've actually so hard. You can give yourself an it is so hard. If you can give yourself an hour of getting up and just getting on your day without getting on your devices, that it actually helps lower some of your anxiety. Interesting. But it is really hard. Even I do it. I'm totally with you. But I I think again for kids, because they might FaceTime a friend at two in the morning and they need to, their sleep is so key for their mental health. So I think if we normalize that, like, no, nobody again, 16, 17, you're gonna want to start, they need some independence. We can't keep controlling them at that age unless there's reasons. They're not functioning well, grades aren't good, there's some concerns about maybe behavior that they're engaged in, then to me that's different. Then you get to you're gonna have more control because they're engaging in um behavior that it might be harmful, right? But ideally, the goal is 16, 17. You that we want to teach them independence. We want to start giving them that independence.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah. Our school has a phone ban and a smartphone like pledge you're supposed to sign. We didn't sign it. We like for us, it's like very much like obviously we're not gonna do that. Right. But I was the kid who wasn't allowed to have a phone. Phones came out, you know, cell phones were accessible when I was probably like a freshman sophomore, and I had a pager and I still was able to get up to enough bad behaviors because my friends had cell phones and and so you can still do it. But yeah, okay, I gotta I gotta go back to this because I still think this is all because we have, or maybe it's causing lack of community and lack of village. And yes, you know, like if they had that, like kids from what I'm hearing, Gen Z doesn't party, they don't date. They, you know, we used to all go to a I'm not saying this is the way people should live, but go to a bonfire in the middle of like a gorge every side, you know, like and gather with people. And I don't think that's what they should be doing, but it's almost like like we do this a lot in my household because I grew up in a commune. It is very much come over, open door policy with people over multiple times a week, even during the week. And it's really beneficial for the parent because you get a break because kids just play together. And I just wish we could bring that back because it I don't know, everyone is we're all just in these boxes. Yes. And I feel like that's why we need social media. But if we just like reround wound and like correct, totally, we have lost a sense of community.

Rebuilding Community Beyond Social Media

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Everybody is again scattered, busy, running from event to event, and just they go inside their house and they shut the door and we don't communicate with our neighbors. We don't, and again, like you'll you'll have a lot of high school parents, like you don't have any idea who the kids' friends are, who their families are, or who the parents are. And you know, some of that I don't know that we're, you know, we're not, I don't know that we're gonna be able to go backwards, right? But I do think there needs to be more of a sense of community so that we're all looking out for each other. I mean, it's you know, it really does take a village, you know. And like you said, if we're all hanging and playing together, then the parents kind of get a break and everybody's got their eyes on different kids and we're we're helping each other out. And there's a sense of helping each other out and being in a community which has value. And what I'm really seeing is a lot of this generation is not super religious, you know, and doesn't really all the established things that a lot of us were raised having some faith in that I think they don't have any faith in the government, um, military, police, religion, and for valid reasons, right? Um, but I think that used to bring a sense of community that they no longer have. So we need to bring a sense of community in a different way. And I think what I'm seeing is that the shot might be through community service things or giving back to others or environmental things or helping your elderly neighbor. Um, those those have so much value in how do we show up for people and know that we're connected with others. And that's the same thing. It's like, hey, I I I I noticed your kid on the on the corner Friday at noon. Just just check it out, you know? Yeah. And and and if everybody's doing it, then you're not the busybody lady who's who's tattling on everybody. It's like, no, we're all looking out for each other. So, because again, the bonfire is a great idea. That's and and you know, they do so. Maybe don't binge drink it. Well, that's the problem. It's the binge drinking. It's not so much the community and getting together, it's that they are binge drinking. And it's dangerous. It's dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Do they still does this generation drink? Like in your work, are you seeing them like drinking?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

So we see illicit things. I'm definitely still seeing binge drinking. I'm seeing that hardcore. Interesting. What you'll find is a lot of the kids are now um alcohol is harder to get, marijuana is easier to get. And with the addition of vapes, which has been a huge problem because they're highly concentrated and they don't smell like marijuana and they're easy to do quickly. Um, that that's basically so a lot of kids will be like, no, I don't drink, I just, you know, I use a little pot. Okay. I mean, at a certain age, maybe that's not that's okay. But but again, if they're doing it all day long and they can sit in the back of the classroom or they pop, you know, a lot of the schools now are putting in um uh fog and smoke detectors in the bathroom to sense when kids are vaping in a bathroom. So, you know, it's been the ease of accessibility of being able to use drugs during the school day is so much easier for them to do that, that that's that's been a real big problem. And so, yes, that's taken away some of the drinking, but then it's increased the usage of marijuana and very concentrated marijuana in ways that are are not healthy, you know. Interesting. Yeah, and that makes you want to be less social. It does. And so it really comes back to okay, why? Why are they having to get so inebriated? Because they don't feel good about themselves, because they they don't understand their anxiety and their depression. And again, there's normal anxiety and depression that everybody has and it helps you problem solve. And then, of course, there's there's clinically diagnosable where you know you need to see somebody and you may or may not need medication, and it's impacting many areas of your life. So that's so I don't want to minimize that that that's different. But I think if we can learn to tolerate uncomfortable feelings and not have to numb ourselves out to get through them and numb ourselves out to feel okay and feel connected to others, that would be a huge advantage for this generation.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

So, how how do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Well, one I think is parents paying attention and recognizing if your kid is checking out or going in their room a lot or you know, they smell like fruit all the time, you know? Fruit.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Oh no, I just had cereal.

Vaping, Weed, And What To Watch

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah. So I think it's it's connecting with your kids and paying attention and recognizing, you know, it's one thing if a kid is, you know, branching out independently and experimenting here and there, again, normal stuff. But if you are thinking your kid's doing all the time, it's you know, again, don't ask a question you already know the answer to. Hey, are you okay? Or hey, I think you're doing this. Hey, I notice I see this behavior in you. Hey, I notice I've I've seen this smell or this be or this physical behavior. And so I'm I'm gonna assume certain things and I I'm here to love on you and I'm here to to be a parent and guide you, and we need to talk about it. And parents, you have a right to check their rooms and check their backpacks. They this isn't a private, they're not, they're not 18. Even at 18, if they're living in your house and and they're in high school still, I'm sorry, you have a right to check. Random random cabin checks. Yes, you know, trust but verify, right? So I think it's about helping them learn early on, helping them learn to have language for feelings. Oh, these are my anxious thoughts. This is how it feels my body. When my stomach gets bubbly, that's what that means. And when and when my brain starts going overtime, oh, those are my anxious thoughts, or those are my, you know, Sunday night thoughts, or oh, that's that wet blankety feel. Oh, that's sometimes when I just kind of feel low and sad. So giving feelings language and talking about it, letting kids know it's okay to have uncomfortable feelings, and how do you tolerate it to work through it, teaching other forms of self-soothing, family time, breathing, stretching, outdoor time, music, all these other things, and then paying attention. And again, this is not a dig at parents because we're all so busy, but you do need to pay attention to the warning signs if you think things are going on with your kid, and then have conversations. Most of them are gonna deny stuff. And so, again, my my feeling is go get some evidence and at least show up and say, this is what I'm thinking. And until you tell me otherwise, do we have a conversation? I'm I'm kind of gonna go with this rolling theory that I have, and I love and care about you too much to just sit back and let that happen. You know? And so I think it's about having hard conversations and then just really trying to be present for your kid.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah. And right now, I mean, there is so much going on, especially if you're I mean, if you're anywhere, but in America right now, it's yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

This is a really stressful time for these teens and young adults.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

So what are you seeing? I know you can't share individual, right? But what are the kind of themes that you're seeing?

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Well, I'm seeing hopelessness and I'm seeing a whole lot of you're giving up because again, what they all, especially the young adults, their feeling is their voice doesn't matter. Um, the government is corrupt, the and you know, that that nothing that they're gonna do is gonna make a difference. And, you know, I I don't know that I can disagree with them on that. I know that's like it's I mean, I feel like some of us adults, you know, we have files that are uh out now that are like well, and they're they you know they can't afford housing, they can't afford food, they're seeing the rich get richer, they're seeing people not be cared for. So what really can make a difference is okay, where can you plug in? Where can you give back to somebody else? And where can you find community? Because if I'm giving back to somebody else, that actually takes me out of my own head of helplessness and hopelessness, and I feel better about helping somebody. So that's one piece. And then finding community and maybe gathering and doing something that feels proactive to you, whether it's picking up trash for the environment or you know, showing up to a rally that even if you don't think that's really gonna make any procedural change, you're showing up with other people that care and care about the things that you care about so you get community back. Or, you know, for some of the some of the young adults that are frustrated politically, it's like, well, volunteer at a poll center. You know, you there are things that you can do so that you can start to feel connected and feel like there's ways to make a difference. So it's really getting them reconnected to that and then finding their community, finding their community together.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, that, you know, I feel like even in motherhood for me, it is like I I can't take, well, before I can't take on one more thing, but then when you do say, hey, drop your kid off or come over and play, it's like it does relieve that pressure. And it's, you know, two people who are suffering with the same thing. And I I say that because motherhood is hard, but you know, there's joy in it. But yeah, you know, as we're talking, I just got this thought. You you mentioned that we don't this generation doesn't have religion or, you know, they're very disillusioned with so much. I feel like the millennial generation, we replaced religion with work because I see so much value in the community that people get from church, but I am not a religious person. Right. And there's so much community when you have kids, when somebody dies, you know, you people swarm around you. And I we did work, and now Gen Z doesn't have that because there's these crazy layoffs, and nobody is loyal to anything. And both both on both sides, like companies are not loyal to you at all where they used to be with pensions. Right. And I just wonder what Gen Z, what their like replacement is gonna be for that community. Cause I just, I mean, I guess it's social media, but that is not a real and that's the problem.

Hopelessness And How To Plug In

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Like their community is TikTok, you know? And and and while some of that can, again, like I've got, you know, a couple of clients that have like to post videos on TikTok and get some joy and followers and like, cool, I think that's that that's awesome and wonderful. But it's that piece of that's great, that's cool. Where else are you getting community? Yeah, what else are you doing and how do you connect? And so one of the things that Project Safe does is we run groups for kids. You know, you know, they're therapeutic groups, but groups are a little different. You're not gonna maybe get into the really intense stuff that you might in an individual or family session, but they're coming together with peers and understanding they're not alone, that everybody is dealing. You might be sitting next to very different kids with very different family situations, but oh, your parents take your phone at nine o'clock as at two. Oh, you're also frustrated about X, Y, and Z. Oh, okay. Or, oh gosh, you know, you and I don't see eye to eye, but I'm I'm now getting to hear your perspective and you're getting to hear my perspective. But so it's teaching communication skills again, and it's teaching how to be social in a group, but they're coming out of this knowing that they're not alone. And 10 years ago, we had a pretty good standing of groups. Um, even through COVID, we ran groups online. And people, I think, were just so desperate for socialization, they would show up. But now what we're really seeing is, oh, I don't want to go to a group. I'm I would never share any of my personal stuff in a group. I don't want anybody to know any of the problems that I'm dealing with, and I'm the only one dealing with this. They're terrified to come to groups. When and if I can get them there and a couple of times, eight out of 10 kids really love and they end up staying. A couple, you know what? It's not, it's not their thing. That's fine. But that's that whole concept of you know what, if you can come and be real and show up, you don't have to be friends with this kid. Maybe you would never be friends outside of groups, but you're getting perspective on other people and other experiences as well as connecting. So I think that goes back to this piece of how do we learn to connect in person instead of behind a screen? Because you can say and what they all will say, you know, is this you know that concept of trolling, like it's super easy to be a bully behind a screen, but it's a lot harder if you have to go up to somebody on the playground and say the thing that you want to say versus saying it on a device.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

So I think being able to come together and knowing that they've got support and connections with others goes back to what we're saying. How do we rebuild community? And it's hard. People are scattered, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Can you tell me more about Project Safe and what you do? And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

So Project Safe and Safe stands for strategies aimed at family empowerment because there was a couple things behind that. What we wanted to do was teach people that you can empower yourself to solve problems. This isn't about having to be in therapy the rest of your life. Number one. Number two, instead of the kid being the identified patient, solve my teenager who's getting into trouble. Let's look at how this may affect families and what can we all do together. And we also knew the value of group of coming together and have people, and we used in the very beginning days of Project Safety, it's like, oh, we had the ADHD group or the anxiety group. Well, we didn't, that didn't work out so well because they didn't like being labeled. And then they sort of just fed off each other. And we found that it was much more like, let's make it like this is the school lunchroom. You've got the ADHD kid sitting next to the depressed kid, sitting next to the autistic kid, sitting next to the kid whose parents are going through a divorce, you know, and so that's more like normal life, and they were able to connect in a different way and learn and grow from each other. So again, we saw the value of connecting as a family and connecting school as a family. Like schools would have no idea a kid was in therapy. Like, so let's let's make sure that we're communicating with the school and working together. The their friend groups are their families of choice, right? So let's not minimize that those are important pieces, but how are you functioning in that friend group? And then if you need help, maybe shoring up some of the social skills, like group can come in um to help with that. And not all the group dynamic is just social skills. It's really just about learning to connect and be there for other people. So it was really about a way of understanding that we're all in this together. And one of my models for Project Safe is that you are not broken and we're not trying to fix you. Like you are who you are, but everybody has things that they can make better and improve on. So I didn't want them coming in thinking I'm here because I'm in trouble or because something is wrong with me. They already are under the emotion that something is wrong with them. So we need to shift that of like, no, what's working in your world and what's not working? And maybe in the beginning, their answer is what's not working is I'm being forced to come to therapy. Fair, fair. But then let's figure out why you're here. And if that's your goal, let's figure out how to get you out of here. But then you got to work together. We got to communicate together. So that's that's kind of how we started Project Safe.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

And then how do you get kids? Like, is it kids who are struggling in school? Is it kids who are in therapy? Like, how do you build that group?

Why Groups Help Teens Feel Less Alone

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Well, and you know, again, I've been doing this for 20 years. So the good thing is I think, you know, you you build your brand. But what in the beginning, what we did is we went and gave free presentations to schools. Um, and I even still do some of that, but we networked with pediatricians and with schools, and then it is, it's word of mouth. You know, people were like, oh yeah, Project Safe was able to help our family in this way. And so we get a lot of referrals from word of mouth, which has a lot of value to me because that means we're doing good work. Um, but pediatricians and schools, and then just the community, just networking in that community and getting the word out there. And we also, I think one of the other things that I'm I feel really good about is I'm also an approved clinical supervisor. And so what that means is I get to train the next generation of counselors. So we have graduate, master's graduate students that come to us and do their internship with us. And so I can offer um a cheaper and sliding scale for an intern because they're learning and they're graduate students. So I can discount that for families that maybe can't afford the full price of therapy. And then after you graduate, you become a resident. And every state has different requirements, is what it takes to be fully licensed. Where I live in Virginia, it has some of the strictest rules to be licensed. You have to have 4,000 supervised hours. So residents, though, then can now make a living wage. They can earn money. You know, they're still a little bit less expensive than the full price therapist, but so we have different price points. So I think that really helps. I can definitely always discount a group. So I think that really helps. And a lot of people nowadays, we don't take insurance because the insurance companies are kind of terrible. And they will deny claims and and honestly make stuff up. I've had insurance companies tell me I had the wrong diagnosis code when it's been the diagnosis code we've been using for forever.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Um, or you know, they they find reasons to deny it. And so most of us don't take insurance. Well, then that puts the burden and the onus on the family to have to go get it reimbursed themselves. So they got to pay me up front. So it's tough. It's tough. And so we really wanted to make it more accessible to families. So I have different price points. So I think that's been something that's been really helpful and a very positive thing about what Project Safe can offer. And then also I feel like I'm allowing people to make a living wage, which is has a lot of value too. That that that that's a great thing for me to be able to feel like I can do for others.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Yeah. And so you have three kids, right? And they're adult. How old are they? 33, 31, and 27. All right. So you started this project safe after you had them, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Yeah. I went back to grad school when my youngest was three. And yes. Um, and so that was that was kind of a a tricky, tricky choice to make. But I was very fortunate is that is that I was not working. So I was allowed, I was able to go to school and and I had a lot of my um classmates that were working full-time, managing their families, and going to night school with with this program at at George Washington University. And I remember being really blown away of like, wow, God love them. You know, that that's talk about being busy. Yeah. But so yeah, it was one of those things that, you know, I I felt very fortunate that I was able to be a stay-at-home mom for 10 years and be there for my kids. It was something that was important to me. And my and my first husband, my ex-husband was an active duty Navy guy. So that's hard. His hours were deployment. So, you know, I I was fortunate that I I could be around and be present and I didn't have to work. But I knew at one point like I wanted to have some career going and have something that I felt like I could give back to the community. So yeah, I went back to grad school when the kids were little and and then started the business after that. I met my business partner in grad school. Wow. Um he unfortunately passed away in 2020 of ALS, which is a really awful disease. If anybody knows anything about that, it is really terrible. He was a really good human being and he wanted to make therapy fun for the little kids. And I saw such value in that he would play games and maybe have a little snack. And and he was, you know, he would say, like, little boys need to move. You know, don't sit on a couch and try to talk at them. You it really all little kids need to move. They're not going to be able to engage in understanding behavioral change in that way. And he was brilliant at it. And it really helped us set our model of how we wanted to do project safe of, you know, let's, let's, let's toss a ball back and forth, let's play a game. Um, let's have let's have a little bag of snacks, you know. And so I think that helped break down some of the barriers of how therapy felt for a lot of families.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

So honestly, they should do that for individual therapy too. Like if I could have snacks and you put you put a couple on a treadmill or like on stationary bikes as they're figuring out.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

That's actually a whole new trend, too. There's a therapist that I saw online that she walks with her with her um smart and it's it's what a great idea. Move your body, right? So it really is about learning different modalities, and there we know so much more about the somatic body work and this connection between the mind and the body and the gut and the body and nutrition and health. So it's more, it's again, it's not just how do you feel? You know, it's so much broader now of like what's your body telling you? And, you know, are you getting different varieties of food in in your diet? And what's your sleep quality like? You know, and so I think it's really expanded into a broader modality that I think has so much more value than just let's just sit and talk about feelings or just sit and talk about behavior. Yes, you have to do those things, but you got to do all the other things too.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah. And sometimes I I know, at least for me, I have been literally in every type of therapy you can ever think of. I haven't done ket ketamine treatment, but sometimes just like talking about things can get very like kind of stuck in a rut, at least for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Definitely. Oh, I think you can talk around it for forever. We can sit session after session and just talk around it, and I don't necessarily find that productive.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yeah. Do you do things like EMDR with kids or I am not EMDR trained.

How Project Safe Works In Practice

SPEAKER_02 48:55

One of my colleagues is, um, although she hasn't quite pulled the plug and offered that as a service yet. But I do find value in doing this somatic body work. And so what I've done is I've had a couple of clients I've referred out to therapists that I know and work with that do the EMDR because you can't just start EMDR. You have to have had some therapeutic baseline and some safety established before you start unlocking these trauma-based feelings. But the big one is this body and somatic work and helping people recognize what's your body telling you? Where are you holding intention? Where can you release and relax? And one of my clinicians has um a nutrition, she's not a dietitian, you know, but she has nutrition certification background. She really understands the link between the gut and food and behaviors and all those kinds of things. And then, you know, one of the newer trends is dialectic behavioral therapy, which is sort of it's learning to tolerate the discomfort. It's sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy meets mindfulness. Um, and I've I've started several trainings of the DBT, they're really extensive and long. So I have not completed that. But the value that I've gotten out of it, it's about learning to tolerate uncomfortable feelings. And I think that has so much value in today, rather than trying to say, oh, let's just never feel anxious anymore. Well, you're not going to never feel anxious anymore. How instead do you learn to tolerate it? Oh, I recognize, oh, when when when I'm clenching my jaw, that's an indicator, or I'm, you know, I'm I'm picking my fingernails, that's an indicator, or my stomach feels off. Pay attention to our bodies and tolerate the feeling and stop and figure out what your next step might need to be, rather than just impulsively trying to change your thinking, which has value too, but I think you got to get to that emotional root. So, but so there's all this the the kind of the polyvagal is is one of the longest nerves that runs in your body and what your vagus nerves? Yes, the vagus nerve. And so what what is quite flight freezer fawn? But what what I'm really seeing, you could almost look at a lot of the diagnosis under a nervous system situation. Overly excited, underly excited, you know, all these different things. It's really a nervous system regulation.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

And I have noticed that in myself too, because I, you know, like you can go to all the therapy in the world. It doesn't do like for lack of a better word, doesn't do shit. Yes. And because you come home and your environment is still a mess, or whatever it is, you still are at this job you hate, or in a relationship that's not working, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Or the financial stresses of life that are real today for families. We are not gonna talk those away, to your point.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that has been something where I'm like, well, if you just don't like for me, okay, that as a therapist, you're gonna hate what I'm gonna say. Um, I'll probably get canceled by someone, but having an organizer come over and organize my garage, help me clean out so we can park in our garage because I'm a slight hoarder, I am a hoarder. Yeah. Um, I I sell vintage things online. So I couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

So that's cool, though.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Yeah. But the amount of nervous system relaxation I felt just from him coming over twice was like I could never again, I have been in years of therapy and never felt that release before. Even, you know, doing Vegas nerve or EMDR or whatever it is, just having somebody come and do that for me so I didn't have to figure it out. I mean, I worked with him, but it was like No, but that's what you're that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

What you're acknowledging is your strengths and weaknesses. And if if organization is not your strength, being able to hire or or use or borrow a friend that that is their strength has great value. And this comes back to that community. Yeah. Like, hey, I'm not good at this, but you are. Can you come help me? I'm good at this, but you're not. I can come help you over there, is huge. You wouldn't have done it had you not hired that person to come help you get organized. And then that gave you space to breathe to to tackle whatever other thing that you needed to manage. And for for those of us that do have sentimentality to things, I could like relate to that. And again, my family, I was very frugal, so everything was going to be reused. So I have a hard time letting go of things, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:55

All the broken things. It's like, well, I could fix that. There's a hole in it. I couldn't, I could learn how to sew. Right. Oh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

So, you know, we understand that there's a reason. I think understanding that the underneath surfaces that you usually have that has a valid reason, but then you have to look past it, go, but is this really what's happening? Yes, I have a valid reason that I could sew this thing and reuse it. And then you have to step take a step back, but am I going to? So I think that's that balance of all right, they're all, they all have value. The thoughts have value, but is it, is that what I'm getting out of it? And then you have that's where the hard decisions come in. And and that's what experts are for. That's exactly what experts are for.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Yeah, I was too embarrassed. I have a lot of type A mom friends who wanted to come help, and I was too embarrassed to even let them see it. So that's why I hired a guy because I was like, I cannot let them. And it's weird because they're my close friends, but I'm like, this is a little bit too.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

I'm like, but you knew what you were comfortable with and what you weren't comfortable with. So I actually think that's a lot of strength in you to recognize I'm not good at this. And if I make it about my friends helping me, I'm never gonna do it because that makes me uncomfortable. So I'm gonna go hire somebody to help me. And then you did. That's you taking an action step. And that's what I think is powerful. A lot of the young people don't know how to take a single action step and they don't want to ask anybody for help. I think that's a mistake. It's we need to ask others for help. Again, this comes back to this concept of community. I don't have to do this alone and I don't have to be perfect. I'm not good at this, so let me let somebody help me.

Somatic Work, DBT, And The Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Yeah, yeah. It makes me think of there was a gal my husband went to high school with, and she created um she's featured on Oprah. It was called the dining table, and it was where they got young people together who lost parents. Oh, wow, yeah when they were young. And they had to be under 18, I think was the because you have a very different experience. Like they had an eight because I I experienced that. So I lost my parents when I was young, and I remember I was never able to really, I don't know. People always looked at me like, oh, look how strong you are. Oh, you could be way worse. And I'm like, that's not helpful. Like, right. And so it like every if everyone is going through that same thing. So I love what you're doing with getting kids together who are around the same age, who are maybe struggling with similar things. Um, it's almost like a boys and girls club-esque, but for mental health.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Yep, that's exactly when the little kids, the parents do call it like, you know, boys' club or girls' club, and because it sort of takes the stigma out of it. But but you're right. It's like, look, I'm not in high school anymore. So I can give you all the strategies that I'm educated to give you, but I'm not the one sitting in the current day high school environment. You guys are, or the middle school environment. So that has great value to understand that they sometimes I'll toss it out to the group. Well, what do you what do you guys think? I can give you my clinical opinion, but tell me from the trenches what's happening and what's gonna work not gonna work. That is so much value because they're the ones that are getting through it in today's world.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

And then it's also confidence building.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Yeah, for sure. For everyone. Yep. Well, because then you might get a little help yourself, but you also get to help somebody else. So again, you get this double whammy benefit of I'm learning strategies from people who are similar ages and similar lifespan that I'm at, but maybe I also was able to help somebody else. So that boosts me up, boosts my confidence, makes me feel like I have value. And also, again, community. I don't have to be alone. I don't have to be perfect, I can not be good at something and and seek help somewhere. And and that has just so much power in it.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Yeah. Yeah. What inspired you to make Project Safe? Because a three-year-old, when you have three kids and your youngest is three, three is a really hard age. So what was, yeah, what how did you do that?

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Yeah, that was that was that was a hard decision in the beginning. I I knew that I wanted to help others. I knew I had a passion for that, and I felt like I was always that friend that everybody would come to for advice. And I remember feeling like I don't, I don't know that I know what I'm talking about here. So I wanted to get some real education. But the other thing, and again, I was raised, I had lots of love in my household. There was there was no lack of love, but it was a very um oppressive religious environment. And so it was everything had to give it to God, pray it away. If any counseling was involved, it all had to be religious counseling. And I felt so stifled in that. And I was, you know, ADHD and anxious and you know, kind of went through a battle depression in middle school, and it just wasn't attended to. And I remember wishing that some I had had somebody to talk to and somebody that could be there for me and help me. And there just wasn't any of that. And again, part of that's that generation. You know, my mother's 92. So nobody did that really back then. But I remember feeling such a void in that, and that I wanted to be able to help teens have a safe space and that it was okay to not be okay and to recognize feelings and not just sweep them under the rug or pray it away, so to speak. That was really an important piece for me that I felt had a lot of value. And so that's I think what kind of drove me into the counseling field. How old were your older two? So my oldest was in middle school, my middle one was in elementary school, and my daughter was in preschool. Actually, my boys, I think both the boys were in elementary school when I started grad school and she was in preschool. And then by the time I got out of grad school and we opened Project Safe, you know, they were a little bit, a little bit older, but I mean, they still weren't driving yet. You know, I mean, there was lots of, again, talk about being able to rely on the community. You definitely had had to do that because I was trying to start a business and at the same time.

unknown 58:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Was it inspired by being a mom or what your own childhood or what inspired you?

SPEAKER_02 58:44

I mean, both for sure. I'm being a mom is is one of the hardest things we do, as you just said, but it's also one of the most rewarding things. And I and my oldest son has depression and anxiety. And so I saw that there was such a lack of services for kids like that, and that it was, it was really like, how do they get help and where do they go? So that was definitely part of it. And then I think just for me is coming out of what my childhood was and just wanting to have a heart for others. And and I and I liked, I liked being, you know, I was I was the mom that like, come to our house, I want you guys to hang out here. You know, I I like to, you know, keep an eye on what's going on and keep my mouth shut, my ears open. Yeah. And I could tell that I connected well with with the with the younger kids and and was a good listener. And and I had a couple of my son's friends say, like, you were the only parent that would like listen to us, like genuinely listen to us. And I, you know, that I I knew that that was a skill set I had. So I thought, well, all right, this this feels like the right path.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

That's awesome. Yeah, one of my girlfriends also ADHD, but she is one of those too. Like her when my husband and I were having difficulties, they had one hour conversation and it was like, oh, he got it finally after, you know, months, years of therapy. And it was like, oh, that's all I needed. And so she's been toying around with that idea. I'm gonna have to pass her this story, this episode, because I feel like so many of us are inspired once we become mothers, because it's like you get this thing where it's like you can't stop thinking about it. Right. How can you make it easier?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

And I think it ended up being a real bonus because when you go through a master's of counseling program, um, you got to do some work on yourself at the same time. And I think that actually made me be a better mother and um a better listener and be tuned into these things instead of being so stuck in my own anxious brain that it actually sort of forced me to have to work on some of my issues. And I think that ended up being one of just the sort of extra little bonuses of going back to grad school as an older person, you know, and uh knowing myself a little bit more and knowing what I what I needed to work on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Totally. Yeah. I got back into therapy when I had when my son was a year or almost a year because I was like, I clearly have issues that I need to work out, so I don't pass along to this child. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

We repeat our patterns and and in what what was role model to us gets imprinted. And it doesn't mean you can get stuck there, but you have to acknowledge it because there are moments where I was like, oh, good job. I'm I I did something great like my parents did, you know, but or or moments you're like, oh boy, you know, grandma just showed up on that one. Like you gotta work on that because that's what we were raised in. And so we're gonna repeat some of those patterns.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Yeah. And isn't it so funny when you see like your parents or aunts and uncles in your children and you're like, whoa, I guess genetics are pretty strong here.

The Personal Story Behind Project Safe

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

They, you know, and it nature and nurture, it is both, you know, but there is that piece of, and they really there's there's a I hope I named the book um inherited emotional inheritance, whatever. And it's a um a book about really understanding that even if you didn't know what happened, these generational traumas that are passed down and behaviors that we don't even understand why. Why did grandma do this this certain way? It's because this thing happened when she was a little girl or whatever. And so you see these inherited traumas that are passed down from families. And you know, again, back then they didn't talk about anything. You know, we I think we do a better job of communicating and showing up as real people to our children. And I think that's a real blessing. I think that's a real bonus. But back then they didn't. And that they were told not to. You know, be the parent, be strong, don't talk, suck it up. But then you didn't understand what was happening. And when you really recognize how patterns of behavior get transmuted to the next generation, it's really powerful to start taking a look at that and say, ooh, that's something I want to break. I want to break that cycle. You know, I want, I want to do things differently. I want to show up differently for my kids. I think that's just got a lot of value. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

I know we're running out of time here. So I there is a lot going on in the world right now, and parents are stressed and kids are stressed. Do you have any like expert tips for parents of, you know, kids of any age and how to how do you because something I struggle with, how do you even talk to your kids about this stuff? Yeah. What is too much to talk to them about?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

Well, and I'll start with that. So kids will ask you what they're kind of ready to hear. So, you know, if if they're not asking, I mean, you can check in, how are you feeling? Is there anything that's on your mind? Is there anything that you're hearing or seeing that you're worried about, we're able to talk about it. So they'll guide you what they're ready to talk about and hear, they'll ask. And then don't give above and beyond because then that means they're not ready for it. But it's okay to have those conversations. It's the whole classic thing like don't ever ask somebody if they're suicidal. Well, that's silly. If you're concerned, you straight up ask. They can tell you they're not, but if you don't ask, you don't know. So it's okay to have those conversations and then let them lead how in depth they want to go. The thing for parents, and and I I feel for parents because I think everybody is spread so thin. But even if you need to spend five minutes sitting in your car before you walk in the door deep breathing, I know that sounds so, so cheesy and just too easy to be true, but really moving oxygen through your body and practicing releasing, squeezing your muscles and releasing, that just you're taking care of yourself first. What can you do to help manage your emotional regulation before you walk in the door? Pay attention to am I hungry? Am I dehydrated? Am I tired? I might not be showing up my best today. So maybe I need to give myself a break that we're not going to get all those things done today because I'm not in my best mood. Or maybe I need to come in and we all need to get some food in us before we start tackling this conversation that needs to be had tonight. So I think it's really paying attention to where what's your emotional state and to not forget to take care of yourself. It really is that classic put your mask on yourself first before you put it on your child. If I think so many of us parents are so about taking care of our kids, of course. But if we don't remember to take care of ourselves, we're not going to be able to show up well for our kids. That's piece number one. So make sure you are hydrated and that you've, you know, if you need a little handful of nuts or crackers and cheese at four o'clock because you're not gonna MMs. Absolutely. Then do it so that you that you have that stamina going into that. One, two, structure. Structure is so helpful. You certainly have to be, you know, we have to, you know, rigid is not gonna be helpful. But if you know, like this is how we all make dinner together, this is what time homework time is, this is what time shower time is, this is what time family time is, structure is so vital and important because then we don't question it. This is just how we do it in our family.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

Um man, we have the least structured household I've ever seen in my life. So other than family dinner, we have family dinner every single night.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

That's your structure, then. That's your structure. And your kid's little right now, so you know, you can get away with some of that. And it sounds like you allow him to have some free-spirited playtime and shift as you go. I don't that I think that is wonderful. But your structure is that you're having family dinners together. That's what I'm talking about. Just is there as he gets older, having some structured homework time is really helpful. But, you know, I think it's just knowing what's our system, what's our rhythm of our family, and then how do we help, how do we help each other?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

You know, if it's really good advice. I think it's really good advice. I try to take on structure because now I'm trying to take on a little structure in the mornings from some of my type A friends. And it is helpful. Like structure is helpful, but many of us don't know how to. To put that, you know, scaffolding in place.

Practical Parenting Tips And Where To Find Gail

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

Right. Well, and it's not, it's not as an easy thing. And so again, I think then the third thing is making sure that you have some family time every week. It may not be every day. I don't, you know, that's just not practical with everybody's busy schedules. But you got but if you don't carve it out and set time aside for it, it's by default not going to happen. And I think that's so valuable that our family is important. And I used to call it forced family fun. We're we're it's forced family fun day. This is what we're doing. And I might get a grumble or two, but they would pretty much get on board in this because that's just what we did. And then we connected as a family and recognizing that spending quality time together and just being real with each other, and you don't have to be perfect, and it doesn't have to be some big expensive vacation to do that. It's just about can we come together as a family? Like you said, as when my kids were little, we had um every Sunday was Survivor Night as well on TV. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And we got to, you know, we got to eat, you know, dinner on the couch, you know. And so it was that was that was one of the things that just was such a great thing to come together. So just little things like that. It doesn't have to be big, elaborate things. But so, you know, piece number one is pay a little attention to are you doing some self-care for yourself? And what do you need to do to just shore that up for five or 10 minutes before you roll into your day? And then being having realistic expectations for yourself and your family, and then having some structure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Those are all good tips. Um yeah, those are all great tips, actually. And uh last question, are you watching Survivor 50 right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

I I have not. I actually haven't watched a couple years because my work schedule, um, I you know, I work till like, you know, 7, 7:30 at night. So it's a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

We watch it the next day. We watch it the next day because you don't have commercials and you can, yeah. I I also fell off that. Yeah. Yeah. A few years as well, they kept kept it going. But yeah, I'm like, now that we can do it the day after and people aren't looking up spoilers, it's like Exactly, exactly. I love that. Thank you so much for being here. For we're gonna link this in the show notes, but for anyone listening, where can they find you? They want to learn more.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

Absolutely. So if we are on Instagram and Facebook, and we also have a web page that has all the same stuff on it, and it's Project Safe, the number for the letter U. That's our Insta, that's our Facebook, and then ProjectSafe4U.com is where you'll find my website. And on the Instagram page, there's lots of free tips and lots of little, you know, strategies that we give. You don't, you can just follow us, it's free of charge. You can just, you know, click on and see little strategies and tips. And if, you know, and we'll post all the different podcasts that we're on so that we get to meet wonderful people like you that are having wonderful conversations. So please follow us on all of those social media forums and just you know, like the things that you like. That gives us the feedback. You know, if you're in the Virginia, D.C., Maryland area, you can certainly look us up. But if not, all of this stuff is free of charge to just follow our social medias and get some great tips.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Well, thank you so much. And again, we'll make sure to link this so that it's easy for everyone to access and to learn more. And thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

Thank you for having me on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:46

I really appreciate it. All right, and thank you all for listening.