Surviving What Should Have Broken Me - Erin's Story

For today's episode, I want to take a moment to prepare you for what you’re about to hear. This conversation is one of the most powerful and deeply touching and emotional stories that has been shared here, —but it is also heavy. 

In this episode, my guest opens her heart and bravely walks us through her life’s  journey: so far. her adoption story, her experiences with fostering, the heartbreak of miscarriages, a deeply devastating loss and the physical and verbal abuse she endured in a past marriage.

Please consider this a content warning. If topics like grief, pregnancy loss, or abuse are sensitive for you, I encourage you to listen with care—or come back to this episode when you feel ready. This story is not just about pain. It’s about resilience. It’s about survival. It’s about what it means to keep going when life breaks you down and you feel like you’re being punished. It’s an episode that makes you question where God is in his life and what hand he has in suffering and in recovery—and how their is still healing and hope 

I’m incredibly honored to share my guests voice and story with you today, So take a breath, settle in, and join us for a conversation that is as heartbreaking as it is inspiring. Welcome to today's episode of MILF SEASON.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before we begin today's episode, I want to take a moment to prepare you for what you're about to hear. This conversation is one of the most powerful and deeply touching and emotional stories that has been shared here, but it is also very heavy. In this episode, my guest opens her heart and bravely walks us through her life's journey so far. Her adoption story, her experiences with fostering, the heartbreak of miscarriages, a deeply devastating loss, and the physical and verbal abuse she endured in a past marriage. Please consider this a content warning. If topics like grief, pregnancy loss, or abuse are sensitive for you, I encourage you to listen with care or come back to this episode when you feel ready to listen. This story is not just about pain. It's about resilience. It's about survival. It's about what it means to keep going when life breaks you down and you feel like you're being punished. It's an episode that makes you question where God is in your life and what hand He has in suffering and in recovery, and how there is still healing and hope amidst all of the pain. I am incredibly honored to share my guest's voice and story with you today. So take a breath, settle in, and join us for a conversation that is just as heartbreaking as it is inspiring. Welcome to today's episode of MILF Season. Welcome to MILF Season, where parenthood gets real, influence gets intentional, and we stop pretending we have it all together. We're having raw and vulnerable conversations about motherhood and parenting, the influence you have on yourself and others, life, friendship, and finances. Let's just say the real life stuff nobody warned us about. From money conversations to messy friendships to figuring out who you are outside of just being mom or dad or the role everyone else expects you to play in your life. Because raising kids, finding yourself, and building a life shouldn't mean losing yourself in the process. This podcast isn't about having it all together. It's about evolving into the person you know you're meant to be and actually stepping into it. So whether you're a mom or dad or just in the beginning stages of adulthood and trying to figure out this thing we call life, grab your coffee or your third energy drink because we're about to have a meaningful conversation where no topic is off the table. So let's get into it. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here today. Thanks for having me. I was just telling Aaron the hardest part is starting. But this is my friend Aaron, and we, I'm like, when did we meet? It took a while. No, I mean, it's probably been what six months. Six months, I would say, probably. Because when I moved down here and I met the girls that used to live across the street, the mom was like, You need to meet this mom here. Her daughter's not much older than yours. Like, you'll love her, she's so nice. And I was too scared to go to your door.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

You know, maybe you know, we're good at making things awkward sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It's okay. That's okay. And then just the other night I went over to your house crying. So our friendship has evolved. Love it. I wanted to have Erin on today because I think that she'll bring a lot of value to so many of our listeners, especially the women that listen to this show, even some men. I've been saying recently, if you're new here, the show isn't just for women, although it's called MILF season. There is a whole variety of topics that we talk about here. And I think Erin's story will have a lot of value to bring. We were hanging out one day and you just casually mentioned that you were adopted. And I was like, wait, wait. And then our other topic that we're gonna talk about, you casually mentioned after that. And I was like, hold on. And this is over sometimes. I feel like I'm a bad friend because I'm like, don't tell me anymore. Oh, because I want you to come on the podcast to talk about it because I want the reaction to be genuine.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

But I just want to talk about you being adopted to start. Did you always know that you were adopted?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yes. So my parents actually adopted me and my sister.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

We're twins.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

So it's like two for one. Yes. They got a two-for-one deal.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

How did I not know this? I thought you did. You met Caitlin, I thought. I know, but I don't think you said you were twins. Yeah, we're twins.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

We don't look like it. We're fraternal. But my mom and dad had struggled to get pregnant for a long time. And somehow they met my birth mom. She was pregnant with twins. She had mentioned that she already had a son and she couldn't take care of two more. My parents were like, well, we're actually looking. So, long story short, we they adopted us, and uh, we were six months old when it was official, but they got us at day one. Okay. So they've had us since birth. But mom and dad were always very open about us being adopted. And it started in second grade. Our teacher read a book about different children, where they come from, and adoption. Oh man. And my teacher, she called my mom one day and was like, I have I have a really big concern. And my mom was like, Well, what's what's the deal? What's are they doing okay? Is there a problem? And they said, Well, your children think they're adopted. And she goes, Oh, yes. And mom said, Well, they are. And so the teacher, you know, she was so embarrassed. I felt horrible. But mom and dad were always open and transparent with us. So we knew ever we knew um mom and my birth mom would write us letters all the time. That is so sweet. Um, birthdays, Christmases, and then my parents would always, every Christmas Eve, they would take us over there so we could still see her and spend time with her.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Oh, what a unique relationship.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

It was good, it was different. Um, because you know, us being little and we see somebody once a year.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

And you have to like remember who's who, and it's like we're family, but we're not. It's a really weird dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So there was her partner or husband, like he was never involved.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I think they met at a bar. Okay. The one picture that we have of him, they were in a bar. But like I said, she already had a little boy and she knew she couldn't take care of two more by herself. So that was their ultimate decision to give us up for adoption, and mom and dad got us.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

So I love like how open they were. That was gonna be one of my questions was well, at what age did you find out? Because I feel like that could be really drastic if you found out randomly or like you had these inclinations and then or even an intuition.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Well, and you've you hear all the stories about those kids that get rebellious when they find out that's not their own mom and dad, and that's terrifying. That is terrifying. But mom and dad were so grateful of the gift that my birth mom gave them. So it was really beneficial for both parties to have that open relationship. So they established up front it was gonna be an open adoption, and she's always lived 20 minutes from us. We only saw her once a year, but you know, she was close. I don't know, it worked out well, and I'm thankful and lucky to be where we are.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

And so, do you know were your parents like in the room when you were born? Yes. Yes, oh, that is so special.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

So they handed one to dad, one to mom, and that was it. Oh my god. It's it's been it's been really good. And looking back, I feel like had we have stayed with her and blessed her, she is such a blessing. You know, I love her, I care for her so much. But looking back, God had a plan because if we didn't end up with my mom and dad now, there's no telling where we would be in life. And seeing, you know, their side of the family, there was a lot of you know, teen pregnancies and didn't graduate high school and um you know, drugs and things.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

It's like an unstable home. Uh that took a lot of courage for your birth mom to like know that up front.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

And you know, I'm lucky to be where we are because mom and dad are awesome.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

My birth mom was young when she had us, and we, you know, now we have an older brother. It's kind of cool to find out. Yeah. Did you talk to him? Not so much. So, random story. When I was 16, I got a job at Pizza Hut. I loved Pizza Hut. I had the bar inside, so you always made good money watching the bar. Um, but one day he walked in and sat at the bar, and I was bartending, and I was like, This is weird. Like, and did you know? I knew who he was, I didn't know if he would recognize me. Okay, so you're like, that's literally my brother? Yeah. And so I went in the back and I was like, panic. This is like we're blood related, but I don't know that he knows me because we only see each other once a year. And sure enough, he did. And that is so crazy. We just started chatting and caught up just fine. He'd come in there occasionally, and it was just weird. That is so crazy, but it was good. I don't know. It was um he's different, you know. You're not around anybody for a year, it's just like culture shock. Yeah, and it's just to know that we're actually siblings is weird.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

It's so bizarre. Like we don't see each other every day. I feel like it's hard to have that, like if it was a mental block that it is, it's weird, and you know, because he's older.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I think he's like six years older, and so that was weird too, because it's like he's a big brother, and you think of big brothers as like these big protectors and stuff. It's like I don't know you from Joe. You know, I know I love you because I'm supposed to, but it's just it's a weird dynamic. I can't even explain it. It's just kind of awkward, but it's he's still family. So are you and your sister really close? Me, yes. Yes, yeah. Now, when we were little, not so much. Yeah. We fought because we were twins, but now we're close. She FaceTimes my daughter every day and calls her AK for Aunt Caitlin.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

One of my questions I had was do you think being adopted affected you and your sister's relationship at all? No. But yeah, now that I know that you're twins and she was also adopted.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, that makes sense to me. I mean, we we did that together, you know. And it wasn't my parents did a good job raising us as if we were their own. And so we didn't know any different. They didn't treat us any different, and so we were kind of in a in the in the boat together.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

We didn't know anything other than that. Was there ever a time that you felt like that kind of I don't want to say that you didn't belong, but did you ever feel like there are times when like you weren't necessarily felt a belonging with your parents, or they just did such a good job?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

No, I think they've always done a really good job. I think you know, I you see so many other people who have been there through that experience, and you know, like I said, that rebellious face gets in, or they start they get in trouble from their parents, they do the I hate you stuff. Like we never did any of that. It was just, you know, we get in the normal trouble, but we it wasn't we didn't feel different because we were adopted.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

So well, and that's so amazing too, that like it just is so special that they did such a good job from the start. I feel like that's key too, that they were so open about it, right? Because then that then you know that's who you are and that you are part of their family. And with that like open relationship with your biological mom, there's no well, but I want to go find my parents. Like I want to go find this other side of me that I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah and that's the they were open with us about our birth mom. Now, our birth dad, we didn't know anything about him. All we knew was was his name. And at one point we had started to ask those questions every Christmas Eve when we know when we went over there, we'd ask him questions about him, and the whole family was a little bit like standoffish. They didn't want to give us any information. We just knew his name. They didn't want to talk about him. It was kind of like a black cloud. And so ultimately I found him on Facebook when I was like 20 and uh sent him a message. And I didn't I didn't know it was him for sure because I just had one picture of him and I don't know where we got it. And so I sent I took a photo and sent it on Facebook Messenger and said, Are you the Kirby Lane in this picture? He's like, Oh gosh, I don't know if I should say his name, but are you the guy in this picture? Here we go. Um, are you the guy in this picture? And uh he he said yes, and who who are you? And I was like, Well, I'm actually your biological daughter. Um, so it's kind of awkward at first, and but you know, he started to kind of ask those questions. Yeah, you know, did he know? He yeah, he knew about us, he just didn't want anything to do with us or my daughters. Yeah, yeah. And so I think there was already some animosity about that. So when I was messaging him, it was kind of like I wanted to know who he was, but I didn't need to meet him. Yeah, like you didn't need a relationship there, right? Yeah, and it was kind of, you know, personally, I just I guess I'm kind of bitter the way he left the whole family and left her to do it on her own. But secondarily to that, like I have a great dad.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, because if he had stayed, like what you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, I wouldn't be where I am today without him. So out of respect for my dad too, it was one of those things like I don't need to meet this guy, I've been fine this long without him, I'm all fine again. When you see like on Facebook and stuff, he's got a family of his own. And it's like, so you decided to be a dad later on, but you couldn't take the responsibilities before.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

You know, what's so interesting about that is with I say my daughter's sperm donor, in my first episode, I referred to her as her dad because I didn't know what else to call him. But obviously now I have Kirkland. And so, like her sperm donor, preppy boy for the original listeners is what I called him. I have always had a thought of like, I think when he has his own family, if he decides to get married and have kids, he's gonna have a holy crap, like what did I do? Like, I chose to not be involved in this child's whole uh who knows at that point how old she'll be, but the whole first part of her life. And I've always had that thought of like, what will he do if he has that thought? Like, what could he do if he has that thought?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Right, will he come back? Will he try to get involved? That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

It is, and I've thought about even my own daughter when she's old enough to start asking those questions, being like, What do I say? Like what if she says, I want to find him, like I know who he is, I know around where he should be, like living. And it's like, what do I do at that time? Like, do I let her go? Like, it's such a heavy weight.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I can't imagine. I and I think that's where my parents were so open about it to avoid those types of things. And you know, they've never said, you know, she's your birth mom, you can't meet her, or you know, they they were very open about seeing her every year and giving her the giving us the letters from her, and we sent her cards, and so I think that prevented all of the questions later on because mom and dad did such a good job addressing it early on. They never said, you know, she got pregnant with twins and couldn't take care of them, or she met a guy, like they were very um sincere about it, and just you know, she just felt like she wasn't able to take care of two babies. She already had one, and you know, God just told her that she needed to find another home, and so it it just eased that whole transition and avoided all of the chaos that could come later from it. So hopefully that'll happen for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I know. Well, you know what too is I've been listening to um like the John Delaney show a lot, and he's a basically I don't want to say an online therapist because that like discredits him so much, but he's insane the work that he does, and people call in and ask these terrible, hard questions about their life. Well, my sister actually sent me an episode where he was talking about like a woman called in and asked, like, what do I do in a situation like mine? And he was like, You need to start using language, like you know, we say daddy chose to be in our lives, so that there's a basic understanding from this age. Oh, maybe he wasn't always there. Like, daddy chose to be in in our life when like daddy met mommy and he chose to love you, chose to be your dad. Yeah, that way when that conversation is like she's a little bit older, it's not like oh, actually. Well, it plants those seeds. The seeds when they're young, yeah. And she has even said to me, like, when daddy met you and daddy chose to love us, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's gonna I know what they're saying. It's so special. I I have the memory of when he first met her, like burned into my brain. And what's crazy, I don't know if her memory is always gonna be this way, but she remembers what he was wearing. Stop. He was wearing like a blue, uh, blue shirt, and she was like, I remember when daddy, like I met daddy and he gave me uh airplane, it was like a little airplane toy and airplane stuffy, and he was running a blue shirt and we went and got ice cream. I was like, how do you remember that? I'm like, Oh my god, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Like he does that melt his heart too, or he's just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

She used to call him Kirky.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Isn't that so cute? That's adorable. She's so funny, she's so cute. I think that's such a good dynamic when you see them together. Yes. I mean, it just looks like you guys were meant to be together.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

She let in the curly hair, like she looks like his kid. People think should people be like, oh my gosh, she looks like her dad. And I'm like, Well, I thought so for the longest time.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So you you made a comment at one point and I was like, Oh, I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yeah, it makes me so happy when you're like, She looks more like him. I'm like, perfect. It works. She's in the right spot. No, I know. Has being adopted shaped the way that you see yourself?

SPEAKER_01 16:27

No, no, I don't think so. I mean, I think I'm more understanding of people's situations just because I feel like, you know, when you see all these people with children and single moms, and now that I am one, it's like, well, I kind of had a stigma about that before. But there's so many circumstances that you don't understand until you're in it. And that so I think that opened my eyes to where I'm a lot more open and understanding that there are outside factors as to why we become single moms. Because when you're growing up, all you know is for me, all I know is my birth mom had to give us up and you know didn't graduate. You know, so that's all I knew. So, but other than that, I don't think I don't think it was any different. My dad just taught us to love everybody, thankfully. You are such a kind, loving soul. They're so they were so good. But yeah, so I think as far as shaping who I am, I think it's all the same, but I just think it's I have a more understanding as to everybody comes from a different background, you know. If I hadn't have lived through that, I don't think I would have been so open.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Understanding, yeah. I'm I I will open the I'm so judgmental.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, it's hard not to be. I know, and I'm you know, my people watcher, and so I know I can be judgmental, but I think that that opened my eyes a little bit more to be a little less judging.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I I understand that, especially with like pregnant and single moms. Like, I remember I used to always be like, oh, she's not wearing a ring, so she and then and then it was me. And then I was like embarrassed, and I was like, Oh my gosh. I in my first episode, I was like, or yeah, first or second episode, I was like, Do I need to buy like a fake engagement ring? Like, I feel like everyone's staring at me, and then you realize, hey, nobody cares. And nobody's staring at me. But you don't know that you don't, and just think it's all about you, and like, and then you're like, I know I did something I wasn't supposed to, and now I'm a single mom and like pregnant, not being married. Like, what's everyone gonna say? Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And growing up, my knowing my family's divorced. Yes, and so that was hard too, because it's like growing up. I came from a broken family in my adoptive family, no divorce. Everybody's been married for 50, 60 years.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Like, is your mom still alive?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I feel like I hear you talk about your dad a loss, and I was like, Is your mom still alive?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yes, yes, they're both fantastic. Mom's a nurse, and dad just flies everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

So okay, yeah, because he so does he have like a Sessma? He looked like so.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

He has a couple, so he's got a Mooney, an R V4, a um Steerman, and then he's partnered on a I don't know, a six-seater matrix. Oh, cool. Yeah, so they they just kind of go around and just fly everybody's planes everywhere. That's so cool. I know. So we need to get Kirk Legends.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

We do. Well, and you know what? I just saw on Instagram that there's like this whole, I don't know if it's like a community or like a club type of aspect vibe, but you like you can fly into these airports and everyone like parks their plane. It basically has like a fly-in. Yes, yes, so we have them all the time.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

My dad goes to them all the time. They have steermen flying fly-ins, they have fly-ins for any type of plane. Oh my gosh, we need to.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

I don't know. I just need to get over my fear. Kirkland Lilly's like, I'm going to take you up in a plane and we're gonna like idle everything, and you're gonna see that we're fine. I think that's the right wording. I'm like, he's like, I want you to take control. I want you to see that like when it stops, you're still flying. And I'm like, it's not. I'm like, I don't blame you. I'm like, maybe I'm same. Like, maybe I'm wording that not correctly. I don't know, but that was my perception. Like, oh, we're gonna stomp it mid-flying. No, it's not. That's not well.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

And my dad does the acrobatic stuff in his little plane, so he'll like cut the engine and do the loops and do all that stuff in his.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I will like to this day, he still does this.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

My dad does everything. He's um, but yeah, so he'll do all those the acrobatic stuff, and I just watch and I'm like, please, dear God.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I know I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

No, I I refuse to go.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I just go to the flyer. No, same. But so, and he's in Alabama, right? No, he's here. Oh, he's mom and dad are here. My sister's in Alabama. Okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

She's hopefully moving home. But um, yeah, mom and dad are here.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

They live out in Azel, so okay, and you've always lived in Texas? I don't know why I thought, because when you flew out, you said your dad was flying you to Alabama, I thought. But so I thought that's where he was.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Oh no, so he lives here, but he would he'll always fly us over there if we go visit and visit AK and Thanksgiving and Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Okay, that was why for Thanksgiving. And they live on a farm. Yes. Yeah. So they have a bunch of animals.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Well, not so much anymore. So they had um two geese, two ducks, three chickens. Now there's one duck, no geese, and two chickens. So they're dwindling. And then a dog and some cows. It's not like a milk farm or anything like we hear about Texas. It's just a low-key 14-acre farm. That's so cool. Still it was fun. I mean, they had there's a pond in the back, and we'd go out there and chase cows. When my parents first went out there and moved there, we'd go out there and chase cows. So when we first, when mom and dad first got the property, there was no home. Like they hadn't they built the houses on there. Yeah. And so when it went out there, there were these huge tumbleweeds that were, you know, three, four feet, and we're just little kitties. And um, but there were acres of cows, like hundreds of cows, and we would go pick all these big tumbleweeds into a big old bush and we'd go sneak up on these cows. And we'd scare them so they all just fly up or cow tipping, is what we call them.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Okay, so I didn't, okay, two things. I didn't know tumbleweeds were real until I came down here. Yeah. And um what was the other thing that like another thing that like rolls on the ground? Something like bug, it's like a bug. Rolly pulling? Yes, a roly pulling. You didn't know the leaver? No, I just knew the kid's song. And then I didn't know like cow tipping. I thought that was just in cars. I didn't think that was there were, I mean, there were hundreds.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Of them, and we don't it was three of us because it was me and my sister, and then we had a little brother, and so we would all sneak up on them with our big old weeds, and we thought we were so hidden.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Wait, so okay, so you scare the cow and like do that. What do they do?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

They just run off or they trip or that is take off. But it was just fun to sneak up and see how close you could get.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

That's also, I think, the most Texas thing I've ever heard. I know. Like we used to sneak up on the cows.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, it was. I mean, it was like the highlight of the farm because you know they're all building in the house and working on it, and then we were just out there. That is like what are we supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Except scale the cows. Scale the cows, just pick the weeds.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I love that. Yeah, it worked, it was good. It was lots of good kid entertainment. There was a pond in the back, and uh, you know, back then your parents say go out till the sun goes down and you get back in the house. And so it was dead of winter. And me and my sister and brother decided to build a boat. And so we had, you know, dad had all these brush piles, and so we took all this wood and we built this massive boat and built it down at the pond and we put it in the water. Dead of winter, it was probably 30 or 40 degrees outside. We decided we're gonna see if this thing floats. So we pushed out in the middle of the pond. There's a fence going in the middle of it, and so we shimmied across the fence and tried to hop on the boat, fell off the boat. Dead of winter. So then we had to wipe a hike all the way back to the house. And of course, you know, moms, they're like, She's like, take your clothes off. You're not coming in the house like that. And dead of women taking our clothes off outside, breathing. But it was it, I mean, those are the memories that were fun. Yes. Like, what else can you do out there on a farm but get in trouble and build random stuff and build boats that go make boats? It's probably still in the bottom of the pond as we speak, and that's so fun that we never got it out, but it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

I just feel like that's like the childhood everyone is missing. I know. Like, I remember going and playing down at the end of my driveway. It's like, but I still have memories of going out and playing and going out and coming back when it got dark. Yeah, my parents knew we'd we lived on a really long dirt road. So we would meet and my cousins live next door. Wow. So we would all meet, and I say a teeny pond. You know what's so funny is like my sister and I remember this pond being big and there was like rocks, and now that we're older and we're like, oh, it's just a little tiny like divot in the ground.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

It was probably huge to y'all.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

It was, and we used and there used to be a lot more water running through it, but we used to like get in there, play with the rocks. There's like frogs, like all that. Do they still live there? Yeah, my parents still do live. Yeah, so we're gonna live with them for a month. Yeah, but out all that back. I don't know. I grew up in an alpaca farm. I don't know if I told you that. You told me that. Yeah, so in in elementary school, everyone used to think my sister and I were lying, and we'd be like, just come on over to our house. You'll see. We only had, I think, like 14 max. There was a girl in my high school, they had like over a hundred. They bred. What do you do with that? You don't eat them. No, you shear them for their fleece, and then you like can make like yarn or you can have it made into like clothing. But that was like so cool. So we got neat. It was cool. So we got to see like a pack is being born. We had a couple babies die, which was really sad because we were like between seven and ten, that's how I'm saying. So yeah, that was really hard, but we had them for forever. And yeah, it was really cool. But so my parents have like all this land, it's telling me like my my grandparents' land, huge hayfield out back, so we would go snowmobile, like four-wheeling, all that stuff. Yeah, and I'm like, that was what we did growing up, and now it's so hard now. I'm like, okay, guys, we gotta go outside, we gotta play because everyone is it's just so much easier turning the TV on.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah, it's tablets and TVs now, and if you can just go outside, and you know, we can't really do that here because stinks because there's not much land, but now that you'll go home, so excited.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, and there's like a big pond, like an actual pond, like down our driveway, because we live on like an ATV trail. Yeah, so like if you walk down a little bit, there's like a huge pond. So yeah, we're really build that back literally. Literally, literally. Okay, classic. I love a little side tangent. Okay. Um, okay, so getting back, I have two more questions for you. Do you think being adopted influenced how you approached motherhood?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Uh no.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

No.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

I don't really feel like it changed anything. I think my mom did a good job raising us. That's just what I went by.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Um I don't know. That's kind of a tough question.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I know, and there might not be an answer to it, which is fine. But I just kind of like thinking. I mean, when I think about like what you're saying, I feel like something that comes to my mind would be like open communication, like being super important. I think that.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

But the the other thing that I think um, you know, makes you appreciate how good you have it. So, you know, like I said, I don't I probably wouldn't have graduated high school, you know. And so looking back, I'm grateful for that. So I think I do push Landry really hard. You know, do good in school, get get good grades, do your gymnastics because I see where you could end up if you don't accomplish things and you don't stick to things. So that's probably the only thing I feel like that it's changed.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

So a funny kind of side tangent with that is about basically where you could be versus where you are, or where you could be in the positive versus where you could be in the negative, depending on the route that you choose. When I was in college, it was my junior senior year. I was getting into a lot of trouble drinking. Um, I was an RA, so I kept getting caught. I was like drinking on duty, it was it got really out of control. And the I got sent to the school counselor, and when I was sending the school counselor, they were concerned enough that they actually sent me to an outside counselor, which I'll talk about on a different episode. My first therapist. Horrible. Oh no, like she was literally, she should, it was illegal what she was doing, but yeah, that's a whole nother thing. I didn't want to go to therapy after seeing her. But she forced me to go to an outpatient program for drinking an alcohol at the hospital. So this was long before I even thought that I needed or like needed any sobriety, anything. Like I was like, I'm just doing the normal college girl thing, like I'm drinking. But what was so interesting, and I'm grateful for the experience now, is that I saw these people that were just complete alcoholics had to ruin their lives, ruined their relationships with their family, and you're having like open conversation, and I'm like taking notes, I'm kind of like half-doodling because I don't think that I should be there. Right. And I remember having a thought, this like one guy was talking about how he completely ruined his relationship with his family, nobody speaks to him, but he just can't stop drinking. But it was because of alcohol, and I was like, wait, because let's be real, like that could be me, that could be anybody if you start going down the wrong path, hanging out with the wrong people, not stopping the things that you know you need to like give up. And so I just had this moment of like, do I want to take steps in the right direction of my life and maybe consider that all these people are concerned about me and my drinking, or do I want to end up potentially like this guy? Right. So that just made me think about that. Where yeah, like you don't know where you could end up. Like if you had been, if you hadn't been with your parents, you might not have graduated, you might have gotten into drugs and alcohol. Like you don't know the people that might have come into your life being there.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

So yeah, it's good to see that reality and see what could be, and then you can make that conscious decision decision to turn the other way and do better and you know make good choices. I know we say that all the time. Do our kids make good choices? But we're living it. Yeah, we've seen examples of it.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Okay, so now that you are a mom and that you've had your daughter, would you ever consider adoption? Yes, I want to.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

You want to? Okay. I've always wanted to. Yeah. And now, I mean, that kind of poses difficult things now, just the situation. But um, I've always wanted to have one and adopt one just because it was so good for me and to know that I could give that to somebody else. And there's so many people out there who need home, so many kids who need a loving family. I don't have to have my own.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Um, so yes, it's on my bucket list. Homeless 40, but I'm still gonna do it at some point, hopefully. Um, but you know, now it's just a matter of when. Yeah. Because now's not the best time for that. But you know, hopefully in the future I can because I do I do want to, and I've always wanted to. I've heard the process is long. It is, yeah, yeah. Cause I think ours became official at six months. That's so crazy. I mean, they were there for her whole pregnancy. So that was what, a year and a half it took to finalize everything. And I just don't understand that. I don't either. I'm like, sign the paper and what's hold on. I know, but there's so many technicalities, like it's expensive to I've heard that as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Okay, so that kind of leads into our next my next topic here. So perfectly. So I had said earlier, like you just casually dropped that you were adopted, and then you casually dropped on me that you fostered a child while you were pregnant. Yeah. Okay, so that was a journey.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

So I want as much detail as you're willing to give. So um it started out, you know, history, been married 10 years, now divorce. But during that marriage, we had had two miscarriages, and so it was like, we want to get pregnant and we can't, and we keep losing them. And so it was kind of one of those, I want to be a mom, but how do we do it? Adoption is too stink and expensive. And so we figured we could do foster to adopt. And so we signed up, we did the courses, you know, they come do the home inspections on everything, and then you basically tell the agency, you know, what ages you want, if they if you want any special needs children, if you're open to those sort of things, you just give them your whole stipulations that that you're looking for. So ours, you know, I just said um ideally a baby, because I'd like to, you know, start from the beginning. I didn't really have any other stipulations at all. It was just I wanted a child that had a good prognosis to end up adopting. I didn't want to just, you know, we need you to foster this kid for two months, then the parents can have them back. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to have a long-term plan. So um ultimately got licensed and everything, and then we started getting the calls for kids. How long was that time frame? Uh once everything was official, it was probably three or four months in. We started getting the calls. Okay. Because there's, I mean, there's a list of foster parents, and so they just go through and see who's at the top of the list and start working through. So it took some time at first to get a few of the calls, but um, you know, the first one they said it was only gonna be for a few weeks, and I said, Well, you know, I'm looking more long term, we'd all ultimately like to adopt, so we declined. I don't remember the other one why we said no, but then we got the call for Hunter, and uh he was two days old. Oh my gosh, yeah, two days old. Mom and dad had had drugs in their system. They I guess they did the Mercodium testing, it's like the poop test when they're born or whatever. And so they had drugs in their system, so they took the baby, and they were a long history of drugs. And so um the social worker said, This looks like it's gonna be a a good one to foster to adopt. So we said yes, and he's two days old. They bring this teeny tiny five-pound baby to the door, and it was like, boom, your parents. Oh my gosh, was that super surreal? It was so surreal because I remember it was, I don't remember, it was a day of the week, it was during the week that we got him, and I had to text my boss at like 11 o'clock at night saying, Hey, I'm getting a baby, tomorrow we have a baby. And they knew the whole process and they were supportive, but I had to tell them, like, hey, this is for real, it's happening. You know, I'm gonna be off the next two months. Yeah. So that was. What were you feeling? Do you remember in that moment? I was terrified, but I was so excited. Um, because you know, you get the phone call and it's just like, yes. And when you say that yes, they're like, okay, we'll be there in an hour. That is your then your panic mode. Yeah, you have an hour, you gotta, and you don't know if you're gonna have a baby, like a teen tiny baby or a six-month or a two-year-old. So, do you have like a room prepped? You do. So part of part of the process is you have to have the home inspections, you have to have a separate room. So we had it set up for a nursery. We I mean it was gender neutral because we didn't know which gender, but so we had that, but it was like, I gotta go make a bed, I gotta put the crib sheet on, you know. Yeah, like excitement. All these last minute things that you don't think of. And so then you have to, you know, have the formula, the size clothes. Oh my gosh, everything. And you because you can't prepare for that. Um, so it was exciting, it was nerve-wracking, I was crying. Oh my god. You know, then you want your mom and dad there, but they live an hour away, and it's just it's just a lot a lot of emotions. Yes, and then you have to get all that done in an hour.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

So, what was your time frame from you had your two miscarriages to okay, now there's a baby coming to our front door?

SPEAKER_01 34:16

We had, I don't know, I would say to get license and everything, it took about a year. Okay. Uh six months to a year. Um, but the two miscarriages, the first one was probably they were probably a year and a half apart. And then we started the foster journey. So I mean, it was year and a half apart, and then probably three or four months after that, we decided to do the fostering because we're like, this is the only way to be parent. And so, I mean, it was it was fast, it was quick, yeah. But I got Hunter, you know, at day two, and he that was March, mid-March, and then April I found out I was pregnant. My gosh. And I was like, oh gosh, that's gonna be the two under two. Yeah. It's just like, oh my lord. And you don't prepare for that either. But I think that the hard part about that is because I already lost two babies. So were you scared? I was terrified. Yeah. And looking back, I didn't enjoy my pregnancy. It wasn't like I'm pregnant, this is exciting, you know. You you feel the baby move and all these things. I I think I was in fight or flight mode and I focused everything on Hunter that I didn't focus on my own pregnancy. And I missed that and I regret that because I wanted to enjoy Landry and enjoy being pregnant, and I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

I mean, I don't blame your system though for immediately going into like protection mode. I also feel like almost subconsciously, you're like, okay, if I don't think about this pregnancy, maybe I won't lose it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

And that's what it was. And it was there was another girl that I worked with that did IVF and she got pregnant at the same time. And so, and this is during my second miscarriage. We got pregnant at the same time, and she did the IVF, and we went out to lunch one Friday, and when we were on our way to lunch, I could just feel something off. And I was like, So I went to the bathroom when we got there, and I come out and I'm crying. Oh my god. And they're like, Oh, it's probably just your missed period. Don't the baby's fine. And I sat there during lunch, and she, you know, she was having a great time, and I'm happy for her because she went through a lot too. Um, but it's like you see somebody so happy and pregnant, and then I'm sitting there like actively losing mine, was the hardest thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

I cannot imagine.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

So that was exhausting and terrifying. So I think that also kind of scared me too, just tra traumatized me from going Landry's because it was like it could happen any second that you're gonna lose it again, and that would be number three.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Was that kind of early on into were your miscarriages early? It was about three months. Oh, okay. I feel like that's a little bit l I kind of feel like that's later then.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, usually it's like six or eight weeks. I was gonna say, yeah. I think our first one was twelve weeks. And the first miscarriage, um first miscarriage, I had to have a DNC.

unknown 36:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

And then it didn't work, so I had to go back in six days later and get a second one.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Oh, and that's traumatizing.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

So that was the that was a whole nother level to it, just to feel, you know, I feel like we're meant to be moms. Yeah. And we're meant to have children, and to have one removed from your body was terrifying. And so again, it's just there were all these little things that traumatized me from enjoying Landry. And, you know, little part of me wants to be pregnant again at 40. Yeah, I don't blame you to be able to enjoy it. Yeah, and it's it's just something that um, you know, when she gets older, um we all tell her about it, you know. Yeah, I don't know. It's just it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to be happy about it.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Did you let your husband in when with both miscarriages? Is was it something that you kind of kept private or your husband at the time did you let him in?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

No, I've I kept a lot of it private private. You know, he was supportive in the moment. And I looking back, I know they affected him too, but he was trying to be the rock, the rock because I was emotional and everything, and I appreciated that, but um, you know, it affected a lot of people, not just me. And I think for me, I'm a stuffer. I'm a chronic stuffer. I don't like to talk about feelings, you know. I don't want I have these pride issues that I want everybody to think I'm okay. I don't want to feel like a burden to anybody, and um, so yeah, I stuffed all those down and I didn't talk about it for years. Really?

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Did you end up going to therapy or anything?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

I did, but therapy was a whole bunch of things, it wasn't just the miscarriages, so um, I didn't really talk about that too much because we had marriage issues to talk about. So that kind of took precedence over that my emotional stuff.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

So do you remember in either of those miscarriages what what your conversation with God was like?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Oh, I was angry. I um and my anger with God started before that. There were a few things that led up to that, but that was kind of the cherry on top because it's like, why would you do that to somebody? Because I didn't do anything to deserve it, you know? Yeah. And so um you're gonna make me cry. So I was angry, and um to this day I'm still I still get mad about it, just truthfully. Um but looking back, I also felt like I was getting punished for things that had happened before that, and all the way up until five years ago is when I was like, I'm mad at the wrong person.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Oh do you have that?

SPEAKER_01 39:16

But yeah, so it was hard. Um, but yeah, I'm still a little bitter about it to God, but I know it's not his fault, and there's a bigger plan, and but it's so hard to see in the moment. It is, it is. I was I was mad. And I, you know, my parents didn't raise me to be that way, and it was just an internal thing that I just had to stuff down and deal with on my own because I didn't want to tell my mom and dad how mad I was. We just kind of didn't talk about it. So I don't know, it was hard.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

It's heavy, it is. I I I can't imagine, especially when you want to be a mom so bad. And I completely understand the feeling of I did something wrong, I'm being punished. I this is also something I haven't talked about on this podcast yet. Um, when this was two, she had a fibral seizure, and I this was at the very beginning of my holistic journey, and so I refused to give her Tylenol because all I was hearing was Tylenol is so bad, Tylenol is so bad. Do you need to let the fever run? And I had put um crushed up garlic and uh washcloth on her feet with warm socks on, and what I didn't think about was that that heat was gonna also escalate her fever, and she was laying on me, so she ended up having a federal seizure, she like looked up at me, and I knew in her eyes something was wrong, and she started seizing, and then I was started freaking out, and my dad, who's a police officer, so he's like an EMS, and he came over and immediately picked her up. I like don't know what's going on, and so I went and I grabbed a dechoker because I'm like, is she choking on something? And like I later said he's in the de choker on her, like that's not doing anything. And then to this day, my dad will not say that like he saved her life, but he this was also in the like beginning of my like I need to be sober, but I hadn't actually started being sober yet, and I'm working through now in therapy. Like, I'm very shameful of my past, like like extremely shameful. And um, I just remember like my dad yelling at my mom, like, go get this machine from my cruiser to help her breathe. And like he's literally got her laying like on the pavement, you know. Let's say her name is Amy. Amy, look at pup-up, Amy, look at me, Amy, don't close your eyes. Like, Amy, like, look at me, look at me, look at pupp. And I'll literally like never forget she was turned blue. Like, and I like have goosebumps because in that moment I literally was like, Dad, she's not breathing, and I was like, She's not breathing, she's not breathing. And I just the like it was like my second thought was like, I fucking deserve this, like the god is punishing me. Yeah, it's like I deserve for her to die. And my dad got her breathing like with this machine, and then the ambulances came. He literally like will not admit that he saved her life. And I like anytime I talk to somebody about this, I'm like, my dad saved her life. Like, literally, if I had been alone, like she would have fucking died, and that's that just resonates so much with like this is punishment, and that's also something like that's why I said I need EMDR therapy about it, so that I can like actually process what happened and like learn that it's not my fault. And that's easier said than done. It is so much easier said than done because it's like I know like God is a God of love, but when things do happen like that, it's like, what did I do? Why? Why is this happening to me? Yeah, it's like when you want to be a mom so bad, especially I feel like so many women are gonna relate to that because fertility is something so many women are struggling with, and you know, there could be a plethora of reasons, but like one of my best friends is wants to be pregnant so bad, and like everyone around her is getting pregnant, and she's like, Why me, why me? And it's just it's so hard. It is, it is, and it's also like I'm so grateful that you just opened up about your mis miscarriages because women don't talk about it enough, I don't think. And I think most people know in here, like I don't agree with abortion and pro-life, and I think people don't talk about those experiences either, and like maybe some women have no problem with them, but a lot of women, if you hear their stories or they're speaking on social media, will say this was a deeply traumatizing thing to go through, but they just stuff it down and they don't talk about it, and that also wrecks havoc on our body. Like, that's how disease that's how disease starts.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yeah, like keeping in emotion and it bottles up and it creates an ugly monster inside. Yes, you know, you can be bitter for years about it. And the you know, the pro-life stuff, like I'm right there with you too. Because I'm like, there are so many people in this world who want the ch want children.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

And for you to go in there and end somebody's life just because you don't want it. It's an inconvenience. On the opposite end of that, it's like I was adopted because she chose not to get rid of us. Yeah. Like, so you know, I'm I'm pretty. Pretty uh stern vote. Yes. Yeah. So when people are like, you know, you see those those documentaries of the girls having all these abortions because they just keep getting pregnant. It's like they were responsible. It is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yes. That's one of my friends actually was like, I'm choosing to have sex, which means I could get pregnant and I accept that responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Take that risk.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yes. Um that was me, right? Drunk college night, and here I am with the most beautiful thing ever. She's like, I like I've I've talked about this before. People very close people to me were like, so you're gonna get an abortion, and that it that was it. That changes friendships real quick, really fast. Yes, and I had one friend, and she she is pro-choice, and she told me she was like, Warren, I'm gonna respect what you want to do, but just know if you decide to go get an abortion, you can't sweep that under the rug. Because whether someone wants to admit or not, that is gonna be a traumatic experience, and people don't want to say that, but it is, and you can't just sweep that under the rug and just forget about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Like it's gonna be that it's gonna fester, it's gonna come back later. That trauma and that guilt's gonna carry with you forever.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

So, how did you like how did you did you how I should say, have you worked through those two miscarriages?

SPEAKER_01 45:09

No, no, it's not no, no, um, you know, and what sparks it a lot is when Landry says she wants a sister or brother. And you're like, well, you're like, really do that now? Yeah, you know, so that's hard because it really makes you think, like, what if? But looking back after everything that I went through too, it's like there's a reason that they're not here. And even though I'm angry at the situation, I know God had a bigger plan. Um, so it's I don't want to say it's a blessing in disguise because it's not, it still hurts, but um I'm where I am today and I have Landry and I'm thankful for that. So you just have the trust. You just and that's the hard part too. That that whole, you know, uh let go and let God, that's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

You're like, I don't want to right now.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

I don't want to, I have control issues.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Same, I have control issues too.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

This is why we're so close. I know. I know control is hard. It is, and we we've talked about that, you know, being like a helicopter mom because it's like we want to protect our kids so much.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Well, and like getting this deep with you right now, it makes sense. Like what I've gone through, it makes sense why I'm a helicopter mom. I would consider myself a helicopter mom, but I'm not like, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? Like, I'm not always like down her neck.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

She's in your house. Yes, like you can still go to another room and do what you need to do. Exactly. At least you're you know where your kid is. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I could never ever just let her go down like the street and just not know where she is. I don't even let her go out front without me. Because I'm like, there's workers around, they could just gnash you right up.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

We'll be like riding the bike in the in down the driveway or down the sidewalk. And if I have to run in to grab something, I'm like, Landry, come with me. You stand in the doorway, yes, where I can see you. We're not gonna stand out on the street for me. You come inside with me. Exactly. Uh I know I'm overprotective, but it's also like she's my only one. You know, so that's a another selfish thing. It's like, and I already don't get to see her every day, so that's hard enough.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

So it's like I'm just protecting her with all you have.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yes. Call me a helicopter, but I'm happy being a helicopter. I literally don't care.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Call me what you want.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Yeah, move on talking. You know what? Fine. She's safe at home with you in bed, and that's what matters. Yep. Yep, she's happy, she's healthy. I'm a helicopter mom, and I'm okay with it. Judge her that proudly. Judge me. Judge me.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

I'll judge you for what you're not doing. Right. Absolutely. Taking notes. Okay, so our timeline is you have the two miscarriages, and then it's been about a year, you said? Uh, two minutes, probably six months to a year. Six months to a year. Okay. And so we're back to this baby is coming like ASOP in the morning. So um, were you and your husband on the same page about fostering a child?

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Because we we both wanted to be parents. That was like our only avenue, but then surprise we were pregnant the next month. So so that was kind of terrifying for him, especially, because it's like he was like, Are you kidding me? Yes. You know, you know, men are like, the financial burden, what are we gonna do for the child care?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

They get so logistical so fast.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

They do, and I appreciate that to an extent. Yeah. It's also like, chill. Yeah, let's just take this with a grain of salt. Yeah, we don't even know if it's gonna last. Yeah. So that was a hard reality check, too. But and then, you know, to think about the financial part of it was like, oh Lord. It is a wash. It is, you know, and when you foster, um, the school is paid for okay. Whatever school you take them to, because they they're on Medicaid state assistance. So that helps. And then you get a little stipend to help with like formula and diapers and stuff. Okay, you know, all those other expenses add up so fast, add up quick, and they don't, I mean, it's not enough to buy all your supplies for a nursery. You have to have everything ready before they drop the kid off, essentially. So, um, so yeah, the fostering part financially, it was like, okay, it might not be as bad as two two regular children. The one is gonna be hard enough. Yeah, yes. So, but it was it was hard to try to figure out and plan. But we just made it work.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

So, how long did you have Hunter for?

SPEAKER_01 49:06

We had him for eight months. Okay. And that's where you don't realize how broken our system is because eight months and his parents were had a history of drugs, and so for the first probably three or four months they were on um weekly visits. They had to have supervised visits at the um, what do you call it? Like the CPS office.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Okay, so you would bring you would bring Hunter.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Yeah, so we would bring Hunter, and it was it was kind of awkward um because you know, you're walking in with somebody else's child, yeah, and you see the other people who just birthed this baby, but then also it's like your child. Yes, and it's like we're doing you guys a favor, yeah, but we also want to be parents too. We're we're helping you.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Well, and you're under the assumption that this is probably gonna turn into an adoption, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:52

It's hard to walk in with somebody else's kid, and you know, they're upset because their kid got taken, yeah, but then we're ecstatic because you have a child, so it's awkward because I remember we we met in the waiting room for the first time, and it was like, hi, that is I could not imagine it was so awkward, you know, because you see hate in their eyes for some reason. It's like that's not what we're here for for. We're here to help your child, you know, to keep get give you an opportunity to get clean. And it was more like um, you know, they were cordial, face to face, but it was also you could tell it was kind of awkward because they were mad about it. And I understand it, but it's also like to give your kid the best opportunity, you need time to get clean yourself. So that was hard to balance and um, you know, to to meet them every week secretly hoping that they don't get clean selfishly. I mean honestly, that's what we were hoping for. And and the system being broken, you know, it was hard because they weren't going to get clean because they wanted to. Their case worker was like driving them and dragging them because it they're all about CPF is all about unification, reunification. That's their main goal, not what's best for the kid. And so even for the first two months we had him, they were trying to put him with her, I think it was like her biological mother or something.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

And she was a foster mom. But when they did the house inspections over there, there was exposed uh wiring, there were holes all over the wall, missing ceiling tiles. Jeez. So it you could tell it was one of those homes that just did it for money, yeah, financial gain. Because she had three or four foster kids, and the kids didn't have their own rooms, they were all squeezed in to run one room and it was like how do those homes get approved? Yeah, and they're different agencies have different stipulations, and so it was a real big struggle because the first two months they were trying to take Hunter from us and put him over there, and we had to be really vocal, like that is not happening. You see that home and you see this home.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

So they had a an ad lightum attorney, which is one that is does does what's best for the child, they're not particular to any family, they do what's best for the child, so she was very adamant. She's like, he's not going to her family's house.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Okay, dude.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

And so that was good. But um, the social worker who worked with Hunter's parents basically dragged them to everything. And, you know, for me, I was kind of upset because it's like you should want this for yourself. And you want it. Yes, you don't need to go just because you want to, you know, sign off on your documents that you're looking for jobs and that you're passing everything that the court's requiring of you. And so that was scary. And then, you know, they got clean, they stayed clean for two months, and they did the weekend visits where he would go over there for a weekend.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Um, meanwhile, you're going through pregnancy emotions.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Right. And each each visit that you know we kept going and then they extended it to the weekends instead of just the one hour at the CPS office. We were we knew we were getting closer to losing him. And so finally our social worker was like, He's gonna go home in a month. And it was like, oh gosh. And at this point, I'm like seven months pregnant. I was gonna say, yeah. Um, or six months pregnant, and so that was terrifying because you have all those emotions, and then you know, you're you're just a sob fest because you're pregnant and hormonal. Um, but then looking back, I think that's the only thing that kind of kept me going because it was like I still have a chance, you know. This baby has made it farther than the other one. Um it was it was terrifying, but I was grateful to at least still have a child to be a mom to, as opposed to none. I mean, it was still scary two months because you know you have those fears like what if I lose her in the labor and delivery room.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Oh my gosh. And that I feel like and today that has become a big fear, I think, for so many moms too, even that haven't had like miscarriages, but then amplified when you've had these two losses, and then you still probably have this underlying feeling of like something's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

And I mean, then when Hunter went home, it was like, well, there's the third kick in the teeth, you know. And so it added a whole nother level of resentment and anger. Just why would you do that? So, and it you know, it it it related to when I talked about my biological mom and seeing where they came from and knowing Hunter's going back to that environment was terrifying too. And and through all of it, it was like, you know, we tried to keep up with them after he went home, and you know, I'd call him, I'd text him, and happy Mother's Day, hope you're enjoying it with Hunter. Like, you know, just trying to be cordial to still kind of see some sort of the updates with them. Yeah, not nothing, and it was so disappointing because we wanted to have that open relationship.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah, like you did because I mean, and you know it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

It's possible, and I don't think they I mean they all have broken families and their history and drugs and all of that. So, I mean, I they came from a different environment, so I can't judge them, yeah. But it's also like I know how we can make this, and the fact that we had him for eight months, I was telling mom he knew, and so it was hard because we didn't get those updates and found them on Facebook, and so you know, we can see pictures every now and then that they post, but you know, they haven't posted in a long time, and so it makes you worry about him. Of course, or them, maybe they've relapsed, so that's a whole nother level to it.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Knowing there's another kid out there that you took care of ours, yeah. You literally started raising I could not like normal female mother hormones and emotions, but being pregnant on top of that. Oh, it was bad.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

I'm the bad that whole night like leading up to they were gonna come pick him up at eight o'clock. Did you even sleep? No, no, and we went through um this is just kind of a side note, but our neighbors were having a party, and I'm not like a big shinding, but just a gathering. Everybody's cooking, hanging out, and drinking, and doing all these things, and I'm not a drinker. But you know, we we all went as a family, you know, we had Hunter, and there was a lady there, and she was kind of like a grandmother figure to him. And I say grandmother, she's like my parents' age. Um, but she kept taking Hunter, and it was like I knew in two days he was going home, and I was an emotional little rat.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Like, give him back.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yes. I mean, she would just take him and parade him around. And because I'm not, I'm not super social or a big drinker and I'm not life at the party, like I just kind of like to stay home. Yes. And so it was a they were lucky I even showed up. Yeah, but it was also like I knew they needed the opportunity to say goodbye too, but it was like too much, yeah. And I was getting so upset. And I finally went out to the car and I I called Ryan. I was like, Ryan, you need to go get Hunter. And he finally saw in my face like this playing around.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

And so um that it kind of that friendship fizzled out because a lot of things up to that point, but it was just uh those last two days of knowing like he's going home. I need to soak this up. It doesn't matter about anyone else at that point. Yeah, it matters about your relationship. So that was hard too, just knowing that he was going home and just a countdown and I can I cannot imagine. It was a it was a mess. And then he went home. You know, she came and picked him up and we're sobbing. Oh my god. And so, you know, we walk walk him out and she puts him in the car and then she closes that door. It's just like you know, that's the last time you're gonna see him. Yeah. So that was really, really scary. And um ran inside and I just threw up, threw up everywhere for the next couple hours because it was just like it's a feeling that you don't you don't ever want to live live live through again. It's like your baby's being taken away. Because that would have been the third. Like two miscarriages and Hunter's gone, and it's like dead gum. Yeah, not a bad person. I need a break. Yes. It's like that when you see those little videos that say God gives, you know, all of these hard things to the strongest people, and it's like, well, I don't want it. You're like, please, I'm not that strong.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

I'm not a warrior, take it back. Um was it the same kind of scenario where your husband was the rock and just like shoving feelings down?

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Yeah, he kind of shoved it, and yeah, you know, I'm a suffer too. Um and looking back, he got attached to Hunter. And I don't know if it was a boy thing. Okay, as opposed to, you know, Landry. I feel like he was more attached to him than Landry as a baby, and that was always a big struggle for me too. Like, how could you not be as attached to your own biological kid as you were as you were to him? So that was that was a big hurdle to get over and um resentment. I wrestled with that for a long, long time too.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Yeah. Um resentment with him.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Yeah, I'm just looking back, it was like you didn't help me when she was little. Why is that? But Hunter, you you did so much more for it. It made no sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

But I don't know if it was just a boy thing and I don't know. I'll never know. I was angry and bitter a lot.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Oh, I don't blame you. I still like it. I wished I would still be. Yeah, it's hard. Was it do you think like how do I word this? Do you feel like there was almost a different type of love between Hunter and having Landry?

SPEAKER_01 58:53

I feel like it's it's the same because I think when I got Hunter, it was like this is my only chance to be a mom. Yeah. So I poured into it. And Landry, I feel like it was more I was just on edge and scared. And so, you know, I loved her, but it was like knowing that I could still lose her. I didn't I poured into Hunter more so.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

I mean, he's physically there, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Yeah, but as far as you know, when they were both there and you're holding them, it's the same love either way. And I think that the only reason I have that is because I was adopted, and so I don't I don't think other people would really feel because you know, there's yeah friends of ours that were like that would say, I don't know that I could love someone else's kid as much as my own. Yeah. Now a lot of people are exact against adoption because of that. But I've seen both sides, so it's just like you know what it would be.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

So I've never I've never understood that, but they just don't know any different, I guess. But I don't know. I I loved them both the same, and it's still hard either way.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

That that visual, I'm a very like visual person. I could just see like I just picture my own son in the car door, and I just like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

See them just drive away, and you're like, that's the last thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

That's it. I uh that is like heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

Yeah, after eight months too.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

I mean of no and like those years are so format like I say years, that first year is so formative, especially with like the mother, like the parents, just the mother relationship, the father relationship, and then it's just and you know what your kid needs, and that's that's the part too, because it was like they don't know his cries, they don't know how he likes his bottle, what's his bedtime routine.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Like, you know, you've got all of that with your son. Yeah, you know, his whole routine and how how he prefers everything and how you know what benefits him the most. Then for me to just hand him over for a weekend, it's like to people who you don't know if they're actually any better and we'll stay that way. You don't know what soothes him when he's upset, you know, you don't know how much to feed him. It's just so many different things. That it that it like it makes me angry. And they weren't willing to want to be there, like yeah, because I wanted I wanted them to come over to our house to where I, you know, at that at night I could just walk them through the routine. Of course, they could do it, but I can just say this is typically what I do when he goes straight to sleep, yeah. But they wouldn't even do that. And it was like you guys aren't in this no to to be friends and to to realize like this was helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

That we've just raised your child.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Yeah, so you guys get it clean. Yeah. Granted, we wanted to keep him, but it's still on the back end of that, that was God giving them them the opportunity to get clean for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

So you can just pray that that's that's the only good part out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

It was just like, you know, at least we gave them the opportunity because had he have stayed there and they worked clean. Who knows? Who knows what would have happened, you know? So they're a silver lining. Yeah. I don't know if they're still clean, but hoping and praying they are just for his sake. We haven't seen anything lately, so I have no clue.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

That is just I I can't handle thoughts like that. Like my brain would spiral.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah, it's it's hard. Yeah, you get out down in a deep, deep hole, and then you just carry that forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

You are so strong.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

That's okay. I cry a lot. It's fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

That's me. I'm a crier. I am too. Okay, so aside from your husband during this entire fostering process, do you think that your closest friends and family understood the emotions that you were going through, or was it too distant from them?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

I think they knew what the feelings were, but we didn't talk about them. Yeah. And mostly because I'm I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Yeah. I'm like so.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

No, it's fine. Like I'm fine now, but you know, in the heat of the moment, it was like I didn't even talk to my mom and dad about it too much. And mostly because it was like I knew they were hurting too. Yeah. And you don't want to drag anybody down with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

And ultimately looking back, we should have been able to talk about it and share our feelings because I think they would have had healing from that too. But um, I just I didn't want to burden anyone else because they already knew I was going through a lot, and I knew they were going through a lot, losing him too. Just a mutual, we don't want to be a burden. Yeah. So we stuffed it a lot, both of us. But um, I think that helped us too, just to not not sit in it. Sit and dwell. So it made us, and you know, we poured the focus then in Landry, and like what can we do to make sure everything goes smooth these next two weeks?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Yeah. So was she um obviously you were in the hospital for her, but was she a C-section baby? She was, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Yeah, she was breached the whole time, stubborn. She never they tried to flip her and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Nothing. I feel like that makes sense with who she is now.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

Yes, yeah, she is, yeah. She was a c-section, and thankfully, that's what I wanted.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

I don't blame you. No, you're like, get this baby out safe, and here she is, and let's let's start. Leave this alone. Yes. But that's mean. That's the did you you have a c-section? Both were c-section. But I had this whole thing with when I was got pregnant, I was like, I want to feel this is gonna sound so fucking weird. I want to feel like all the thousands and thousands, and I mean millions of women that have come before us. I did not want any pain medicine. This was before I knew I had a tumor in that whole area. So, for those listening, if you don't know this, like when you have a baby, your tailbone has to push up. So my tumor's already pushing my tailbone. And they didn't find that when you were my mom asked my doctor, how did when you were in the C-section, how did you not see a massive, literally ginormous tumor? And like, well, if they're not looking, like they're not keeping their eyes open for something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

But I'm like, you literally are moving all this stuff to the side, like you're pulling all your insides, literally, which is so freaky and so freaky.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

What do you think of it?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

I watched it all in the light, too. So that you know, when you're laying back there and they have that big old light, there's a mirror in that thing, and so I can see everything. And when you see how much stuff they move out and they I'm gonna like gag. It was so cool, but it was also like you're like, wait, that's really me. That's my bonnet. I know it's terrifying. And Ryan was like, What were you watching? I was like, my inside's coming out.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

My inside's coming out in my beautiful, disgustingly covered baby coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

And they lifted her out and I was like, Oh, she's actually cute. That was the first thing I said when they pulled her on my belly that she was actually cute because I was so worried she'd be weird-looking. I hate to say that because there are some weird kiddos. Yes, but I only say that because I'm bow-legged. Ryan has a restating hairline and gap tee. And so I was like, our kid's gonna be a champion chess. A champion chest winner. So worried. I love that. And then they held her up and she was cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

You're like, oh my gosh, you're like, thank goodness. No, I think my first thought when they pulled out was I because I was super drugged up at that point. Oh, really? Yeah, because I I had I ended up getting the epidural because I was in so much pain, which makes like obviously labor is so painful, but it makes so much more sense why I was like in such excruciating pain because my tailbone couldn't move because there's like a massive tumor in the way. Yeah, and so like I don't even want to know. His head was probably like putting so much pressure on that. I like have one specific moment I remember before I got pain reliever. And my doula was like, I was screaming. And she and I felt him move down. And she goes, and she could tell by my like moan, I guess. She was like, you just felt him move lower. And I was like, uh-huh. And it was soon after that that I like tapped out. And I had been going for like a day and a half at that point. I got. Yeah, it was awful.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

So yeah, anyway, I was like I'm so surprised they couldn't find that they didn't see your tumor in the past. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

All of the imaging that all the imaging I've had done since I was literally like 16 to begin with, medical history-wise, in my past, like nothing was found. Like, yeah, it is so it just shows you how um segmented, I guess, every this is your specialty and that's it. This is your specialty and that's it. Like, you know. But yeah, I know. I don't remember like what what we started talking about to talk about this. Oh, I asked if she was a C-section B. I'm like, but why did I ask that? I just had a feeling, I think, that she was. Oh no, she yeah, and that you wanted it. That doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Well, I don't I just feel like hey, I don't want any of that messed up down there. But secondarily to that, it's like I would rather, I think surgeries are easier to recover from. Yeah, than like your hoo-haw being split open. Just like, just leave that alone. Because I had an appendectomy, and I was like, that was easy. Yeah. If I can do that, I can do a C-section. Yeah. And I didn't realize how much more extensive a C-section was, but it was like, you can get up and you're fine. It's just so sore, it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Oh my gosh. So, like within like a couple hours, like, okay, we gotta do your first little walk.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

And you're like hunched over when they come in and they push on your belly. That is horrible. I think that was worse than like this whole C-section recovery. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Pushing. Oh my god, I remember it got up and I like couldn't feel still because like everything was wearing off. And I literally said, I have to pee, and I stood up. I literally started peeing on the floor. I didn't even realize it girked and was like, oh my god, is you're peeing hard. I was so dumb. I had no clue. And I was like, I guess I'm just gonna keep peeing.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

Oh my god. Because I couldn't control it. I think I went in, they scheduled a two o'clock C section. We got there at one o'clock, they had me in the room at 1.30. She was out by 140. It was like I had no labor, nothing was like just scheduled and with this past experience, especially me trying to do natural and I wanted to be in a birthing center.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Thank God I was not in a birthing center. I had an intuition. I toured like, I think I was like seven months pregnant. I was willing to switch. Oh gosh. And then something in me, I felt so much peace being in the birthing center, but something in me was like, you need to be in the hospital. And I was petrified to go back to the hospital. That's a blessing, too, that you were there and you were able to have the payments. Oh my gosh. And then my doctor was amazing. My my actual OB had to leave, like her shift was over or something. And a different doctor came in and he was amazing. And this is so Texas, like versus New England. He was like, I was like, Thank you so much for a safe delivery. And he said it wasn't me, it was all God. I'm like, never any in New England could never, nobody would ever say that in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

Yes. Although that's say did he come in wearing cowboy boots or something too? Like honestly, it would not have surprised me if he did.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Yeah. Well, and ours, um our OB, she's a big Christian too. And so she sat there and she prayed before she started the C-section. So you just like, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Yes, it's just things that just it's just peaceful. It just makes her peaceful. And you feel like they're like, I don't want to say they're doing the work for good, because I think all doctors do the work for good, but you know that there's like this pure, wholesome, like behind it. Yes. And not just like, I'm gonna make all this money off this C-section, like you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Yeah, absolutely. I I I was so thankful for that because you know, praying, it's not really one of my strong suits, especially out loud either. Uh but when she did it, I was just so thankful because I was like, I needed that. Yes, and it just made me feel so much better. Like, this is gonna go great. Like, even though all the crap happened, this is gonna go fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

And then you're like, I'm about to meet my baby, which is uh such a surreal feeling.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

Like and I feel like I almost blacked out because like looking back now, it's like I don't remember much of it, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

It's weird. Same. I remember them pulling Weston out thinking he looked so disgusting, full of all this stuff. Yeah, and then but he like took a second to cry, and with me being like drugged up and like like I remember being like, he hasn't cried, he hasn't cried, and then I remember him crying, and I just like started to cry. And then Kirkland went over and he held Kirkland's hand. Or I say his hand, his little finger. We have a picture of him, like my gosh, so precious, so it's like it's like they know they're like, This is my dad. Yes, yeah, you know, it's so sweet. It is so like having a baby is so magical. It is, and it makes you want so many more. I know you and I always tell like when my friends are gonna have babies, I'm like, you're literally gonna black out and you're gonna forget in a year how painful labor was and everything that was like negative about your pregnancy, and you're gonna want more. I think you're gonna see that babe and be like, Yeah, that was a breed. Give me a couple more. I haven't slept in two years. I'm ready to go. Just tech on a few more at all. Literally, but that's like the magic I feel like of female hormones, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Yeah, yeah. We've gotta love those hormones.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

Oh, they're a whirlwind. Love it though.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

I wouldn't trade it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

I would never trade up giving a woman for anything. I love being a woman. I do too. I love being a girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

I say that till you have to get ready to do something.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:10

You're like, I'm like, actually, I want to do my hair. Yeah, literally. I'd rather stay in just to get in bed. I never thought I'd say that ever. I was such a going out partier. Yeah, and I was the opposite. I think I was born 80 years old.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

It's so bad. But I love it secretly. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

I like to just stay staying, and you know that. Like, I know it doesn't haunt that eight. I love it though, because that's how I am now. I do love my my night out though. Okay, so my last question on fostering is do you think that God was preparing your heart for something through this season of fostering?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Yes, yes. I think it was the little hope that I needed that I can be a mom. Because you grow up like playing baby dolls, playing house, and you know, my my sister were complete opposites. She's like, I want kids, I'm not getting married. Your mom was the exact opposite. I was like, I want to get married, have a family, and have lots of kids. Oh my gosh. Is she still that way? Oh, yes. She, I mean, she cuts, I think she wants to get married now. Um, but she's very uh, she's I always say she's strictly aunt material. She's not a mom. I don't think she'd ever be a mom. Um, but she is she's the cool aunt. Yeah. That's all she ever is, and that's fine. That's what she wanted. But it's like I grew up wanting to be a mom. Yes. And so I think having Hunter, it was God's little here you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:27

Like you can do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

You can do this, hold out hope. Your time's coming. And I think that's what I needed to get me through Landry's pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

Or also I feel like too, probably. I mean, I feel like with what you told me, if you hadn't had Hunter, you would have just been petrified for how I mean, probably the whole pregnancy. It was a good distraction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

I mean, it honestly was. Yeah. Um, you know, to be able to put my focus on him to prepare me for Landry. Had I just started, you know, I would have had eight months of just torture and worrying.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

And stress. Well, that's the thing. Like when you start telling, I feel like your body, like, what if, what if I miscarry, what if I miscarry? Then your body is like hearing like miscarry, miscarry, miscarry.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:09

Like you're like, I think your body reacts to that ultimately. And you know, maybe that contributed to the second one because I was already worried about the we never know. But I do think that was God kind of like preparing me and keeping Landry healthy by pushing my focus on something else, but also preparing me to be a mom. Yeah. And letting me know that I could do it and that your time's coming, so don't give up, even though I'm still not object to, you know. Um, but that was his secret little um little gift to me, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Yeah. So that's so beautiful though.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

I know I love it. I know looking back, it's like I'm so thankful, but in the heat of the moment, it's it's terrifying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

But you made it through.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Made it, and here we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:47

And here you are, with a very healthy, strong girl. Stubborn girl. Yes. I want to know how you met your ex-husband. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

Um, so I was, and this is kind of a backstory. Tell me. So I hadn't dated for four years. I had lost somebody before.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:08

And uh we um Aaron, I'm literally like, you have been doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Yeah, this and so before I met Ryan, I was like 21 in college, and um, I started dating somebody. We got engaged and we're getting married, and um, we were on our way to the last marriage counseling, and he got in a car accident and passed away. Aaron, and um, it was a month away from our wedding.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

And so I took a four-year hiatus. I didn't date, I stayed home, I didn't do anything, didn't talk to anybody, and because it was just like my time to, you know, focus on me and recover, because that was it was terrible. It was extremely tragic. Yeah, and so I took four years off, and so I was living with two roommates. We had a house that we were renting together, and uh he was a friend of my roommates, and they were F buddies, friend of my roommates, and uh so we got to talking one day, and he was very um he knew what had happened because she told him. And so one night he had a conversation, and he well, first off, he cut things off with the roommate, and uh then he came and had a conversation and just said, you know, I want to date you and let's let's see where it goes. And he said, What sold me was he said I would never try to replace him. And I was like, okay, I need because I needed somebody who understood that because that was a lot, and yeah, I and I let me back up too is I was never a serial dater, like I only dated with intention for a long term. Yeah, I would cut you off after the first date if I didn't see a potential with you, and so um, so with him, that talk kind of won me over because I was like, he's gonna be understanding. So I met him through my roommate and they were buddies, and so yeah, we we dated for about a year and got engaged and married, and then things started happening. Okay, wait, can we backtrack for a second? Yeah, did you do any like therapy work? I did. Okay, yeah. So I did grief counseling, I did a lot, and that I feel like even with that, you know, you're sitting in a room of other people who have lost somebody, and it doesn't really hit you that, you know, yeah, we've all been through it, but you still always think your struggle is so much worse and so much harder. And even though they're in the exact same boat, you know, therapy worked a little bit, but it was still like he's still gone. What was his name? Jeff. Jeff. So it was really hard. So it was something that I feel like that was the first time that I was angry. God because you know, I grew up Presbyterian and Christian, went to church on Sundays, and you wear pantyhose to church, and you know, the whole nine yards. And that night was when I felt a switch go off that I was like, why did you do this? Like, what did I do? So that was the first trauma of was losing him. And to to be there was the hardest thing because it's like that was something that you just live through every single night, and to this day, it's like you still wake up and have those moments where what could I have done wrong? And I made that mistake and I feel a lot of guilt from it because we were on our way to our last marriage counseling, but it had it had gotten canceled. We both forgot that it had gotten rescheduled.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

And so we turned around to go have dinner with my parents, and when that happened, it was like if I would have remembered that correctly, that he would still be here, and so I felt responsible for somebody's death. It's not your fault though. It's it's I know it's not, but it's still had I remembered, then we wouldn't have been on the road, you know? And so I think that's what hindered me from moving on and continuing all the counseling and stuff because it was like that's something that I have to fix within myself because I know it's not my fault, but it doesn't bring him back.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

And those are those situations where you there's no other way, like I any human would say this is my fault. And you place the blame on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Yeah. And then he was gone, and you know, he's he had a brother and a mom and a dad and a sister, and again, it affects a lot of people, but I uh I shut down for about four years, didn't go anywhere to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

So when you you had told me, and uh this was gonna come up a little bit later, but you had told me like that you have a hard time trusting, did that start then?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

And trusting God is where that started, trusting other people that came later on. Um but that it comes back to why does he let these things happen to such good people? You know, because he had a lot to offer and he was a great person and he was genuine and kind and you know, all the things that you want in a significant other. And for his hand to take him away, it was like I don't I don't trust God and all this that I've stood for my whole life, that my family stands for. I don't trust him anymore. And so that that started the I guess the domino effect. So every little thing that happened after that, it was like, why? And and everything that happened after that accident, too. I felt like that was my punishment was not remembering that correctly. And that's the that's what I would have to carry because that was my mistake, and now I'm gonna get punished with the miscarriages and you know, everything else because of that mistake. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

I'm just like it's a lot that is no, that I'm I laugh when I'm I'm not uncomfortable, but like I always said, like I laugh when I'm like, holy shit, like that's a lot, and that's a lot of grief.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:24

And to be so young, I think that was hard because it's like it's hard enough to deal with grief being older, but to be so young and you know 21, it's like you you haven't lived a long life long enough to realize how to deal with that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:37

So were you like, what were your con First of all, were you even having conversations like with God or were you just like angry?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Black team out. No, and you know, I wouldn't go to church for years, and you know, mom and dad would say, Come with us, and you said no. I wouldn't pray, I didn't do any of that. I just shut it out completely. And when people would start talking about him too, I would go find something else to do so I wouldn't have to be around him. What so what ultimately brought you back? Well, that's a church program that I started doing. Okay, okay, so that was five years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

Okay, so then let's talk before we talk about the church program. So then I literally cannot believe the trajectory that this conversation has gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:17

Um okay, so that because I'm a stuffer, that's why.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

I would have never ever ever expected any of this to come out. Um, but that that's a good thing. And this is really what like I talked about before. Like, I'm just so grateful for you being so open. And I I just had an intuition that this conversation that there was gonna be something special that that we that you talked about. Um, okay, so we have the loss, and then we we have we meet your husband or your ex-husband, and then you dated for a year and got married. And then when did you did you have an inclin like a feeling something was starting to go south, or was it very clear, and how long was that?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:57

Well, we were married for 10 years, so let's just start with that. But um the honeymoon is where it started. Like we went to St. Lucia for a honeymoon, and like the second night we were there, he got blackout drunk and had me in a headlock. And I'm stuck in a foreign country, and I don't know what to do because I can't call my dad to say you guys just spent$30,000 on a wedding, you know? And um, he claims he doesn't remember it, which I don't believe whatsoever. But I feel like once we got married and I was locked in, that's he got comfortable. I think he knew, like, oh, I got her. So that was the first flag was the honeymoon that I was on the floor in a headlock. Oh my god. And um, you know, stuck in a foreign country. Um so it was a long honeymoon week. We finally came home. You know, I didn't talk to him the rest of the time whatsoever. Never told my parents about it. Um, we get home and that first year of marriage, you always hear the first year of marriage is rough at times because we didn't live together before. So we had no history of living together. And so when we moved into our house in Oklahoma, I I don't know if there was guilt on his part or that he was just mad that I was upset and that I that had carried with me everything that happened at the honeymoon. Um, but he had some issues come out, and so even the littlest things would set him off, and he would get violent, he would spit at me, he would throw things, you know, holes in the wall, screaming military style in my face, top of his lungs, and he's previous Marine, but none of that came out before, and so hey, I feel like an idiot. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:34

But this is where I say, like, Kirk when I got engaged right around the one-year mark, but my mom was like always telling me, like, you don't you don't know somebody truly until at least six months, a year. Like, I mean, and a year is when people start to feel comfortable enough with you to slow, I if if they're a manipulative person, slowly start, I think, showing those attributes or very quickly as you just described.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Well, and I feel like when you and I'm against living together before you get married because I like now that I have a daughter, it's like I don't want her to think that's okay either.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:08

Um, and so I never did that. You know, my family's Christian, we grew up that way, and you don't get you don't live together until you're married. And so I think, you know, that's the downside to doing it that way, because you don't see those flags. Yeah. Had we have lived together before, I probably would have seen it and could have said no. But that's just not how we do things for our family. So a lot of guilt from that. Um, but yeah, that first year, it was very abusive. Was that the only like physical? No, there were a few more. And this is where I've later on in life, I am a um very prideful person and I don't want to feel like a burden to anybody. So I never told my family. They had no idea until a few years ago with a divorce. So we went to therapy, went to counseling, and I ended up walking out of our counseling sessions because um we, I mean, you and I both done therapy and we know how it works. Yeah, be open with it. And for him, he didn't want to take accountability and he would sugarcoat the things that had happened. And it got to the point where I just had to walk out. I was like, we're here to fix this, and if you're not gonna be truthful about it, why are we here? We're wasting our time, we're wasting her time. There's no point to this. Yeah, and you're wasting money. Exactly. And it was just a it was trying to put a band-aid on something that was unfixable ultimately. Was it, did you bring up therapy? Was he willing to go or was it? He was very reluctant at first and ultimately went because we were, I mean, we were both miserable. And so, you know, the first few years were really bad. Then we started doing better and we'd still get into TIFFs. But the what started happening is when he would explode, he had been drinking. And so for years, you know, and I don't want to offend him and say I would never say you have a drinking problem, but if you notice that all these circumstances that are happening when there's alcohol involved, there's a problem with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:57

And he would take that as me saying he has a drinking problem, which would make him even more mad. And so looking back, I should have just gotten out then. Yeah. And I didn't because I have pride issues and I'm you know, all that. But and you were in an unsafe situation, so then I'm in a different state. Like my family is here, and I was up there in Oklahoma with him by myself. So it was hard. Um first two years were very rough. We started doing better, we'd still have the occasional tips, and he'd still have those things leak out here and there when he was drinking. So ultimately, I think that's what contributed to me being a hermit.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

Um, because he's very social and likes to go out there and be the social butterfly center of the attention. Oh, and show off how amazing he is. Right. And, you know, drinking. And so anytime there was drinking, I wouldn't go. Is this why you don't drink? Or was that kind of before? It's a big part of it. Yeah. I've seen what it can do to people, and you know, I wasn't safe in those situations, so I don't want to be around it either. So yeah, and we started doing better ultimately, but it was just always up and down, and so I don't think you can fix that. You're either in it or you're not. Um, and then you, you know, there were other things on top of the abuse. It was, you know, he'd always be seeing other looking at other women and you know, doing all of these things, but I don't want to be a failure in my family. So I didn't want to tell them what was happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

Now that you're out of it, do you think if you had gone to your family in those moments that they would have seen you as a failure, or do you think that didn't No, I know they wouldn't, but again, I think that was just a mental block for me. And also I think it's really hard when you do grow up, grow up with um these religious expectations and having that background, which obviously I grew up saying there's nothing wrong with that. But then you'll get scared too when things don't go as planned. Then you're like, Well, what would happen if I get a divorce? What would happen if I come and talk about this?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:46

Well, and the you know, the whole financial aspect too. It's like I know divorces cost a lot. There's no history of Doris in my family. I don't want to be the first one, I don't want to be the statistic, you know, and to think these days surviving on your own is terrifying how expensive everything is. So I've kind of felt stuck, honestly, and just tried to make the best of it. So that was, you know, the first couple years, and you know, we did, like I said, we did a little bit better, and we keep falling back into these ruts where something else would happen, and that's when we started having the miscarriages, and ultimately it's like I should have gotten out and not still had sex with him, you know, done these things. And it was like, I guess I still had hope that we could fix it or that I could fix him, and I wasn't ready to give up. And so that's kind of where the the punishment from Jeff Saxon, I was like, maybe that's why the honeymoon situation happened. Oh my gosh. And then maybe God was that was God telling me I wasn't supposed to be married to him by giving me these miscarriages. Like it was all a ripple effect on why these things kept happening, and so it's it was something that's really contributed to why I hated church. Didn't trust God, I was angry, I was bitter, silly and A little bit, but I don't know. It was just uh it was too much to deal with being young.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

I I'm always like, I'm gonna put myself in that person's shoes, and I can't imagine if like I got put in a headlock on my honeymoon.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

And that's that's where all the distrust came from. So it was like, if you could do that to me. So what could you do to our children? Right. And it was just like, and knowing that that had happened, and I'd see him pour himself a drink, and I was like, oh gosh, it's gonna be what's coming next, you know, and so I was I carried a lot of resentment to him, and that probably wasn't fair to him either, to always feel like I was on edge or like you know, had a hand up, like but that was my safety mechanism to just shut down and stay safe, yeah. And so, and to this day, he'll say that I never forgave him for that, and he cheated several times, and I never forgave him for that. And I was like, if I didn't forgive you, I wouldn't have stayed married to you for 10 years. Yeah, like I stayed to try to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

But if someone's not willing to do the work, and I mean you can't change somebody unless if they don't want to change, and if he's gonna go in and sugarcoat everything, then that was a huge issue.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:07

It was ultimately a waste of time, and that's what's hard about it, because it was like a you know, you you dream of a healthy marriage and you have a husband and a family and the white perfect white fence, and then all this stuff starts happening, and it's just it's then you're like, why me? And ultimately then you you're like, I did it to myself to an extent too. Like what I stayed after the I should have just been done or annulled it or whatever they do these days. I don't know. But then again, I wouldn't be here now with Leandre and happy and you know, out of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:38

I it's too much. I can't I I'm gonna have to like zoom in on my face when my mouth just draws open when you say that. I yeah, yeah, that is extremely happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:50

It was it was unhealthy, it was an unhealthy marriage all the way around. And I can't uh I can't say it's all him because I shut, you know me, I shut down, I internalize it, and you know, I don't like to talk about things. He didn't either. He loved that that I didn't like to talk. But me ultimately keeping those at the forefront of my mind wasn't healthy either. So I take accountability for that. Yeah, that's something that I should have been able to work through to move past, but it's like you're living on eggshells too.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:20

I mean your nervous system is literally on edge 24 times.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:23

Every time you're on your phone, or every time you pick up that drink, it's like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:26

Yeah, or or what's gonna come, or what are you doing? Or what could you do? Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:32

And that it's just um it's not fun. And it's not a marriage I ever wanted. It's what we had.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:38

This is I I had literally just talked about this in my last week's episode where I was saying how like when sometimes when like women can't get pregnant, it's because their body knows, and that's like I know what I'm thinking about with you. Like, as horrible as like a miscarriage is a you were clearly so stressed out and probably scared and like on edge. Yeah, and so of course your body like won't be able to potentially like support the pregnancy during that with all that stress, and yeah, it's just maybe God knew it wasn't safe yet, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:08

Maybe he knew like this is not your time and thankful for that now, but I was mad then.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:14

I am sorry, like extremely angry.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:18

It's hard. And I I feel for those moms that are stuck in it because again, that's where the stigma comes from. It's like, why do you stay? And that's easy to say when you haven't been in it. Because I was one of those. But before I was married, I was like, why would she stay in that situation? And here I was staying for 10 years, hoping for the best, and trying to make it work, trying to make it work, but I mean, logistically too, like, how do you do it? And you don't want to go crawling to your mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:45

Hey, yeah, like I need help. What was like the defining moment of like this needs to be done?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:50

Well, uh, yeah, there's more after that. So it was a train wreck. Um, so we lost the two. Um, he cheated on me with one of my best friends in my house.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:03

Um, and I didn't find out about that from him. I found out from all of the office that I worked with. The girl had told everyone in the office, but never told me. And so um found out about that, chose to stay, forgiving, you know, try to work through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:21

Um, got pregnant with Landry, had Hunter, and uh Oh my gosh, I wasn't even thinking like all of that happened before all of this, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:32

And then after had Landry, he went on a business trip. Oh no. And at the business trip, he was with this woman for a whole week. And I found out about that because Landry had um, he had just got home from the business trip. And I surprised him too, because um, while he was at the business trip, I was like, I'm gonna surprise him with a new bedroom suit because he we had his bachelor, you know, dresser, nightstand, the whole nine yards. It was his bachelor set from 10 years ago. So I was like, I'm gonna do something special. So that week when he left, I ordered a whole new bedroom suit. I put it together, put the bed up and everything, and he got home at like midnight, and so I was already in bed, and so I was excited for him to come in and see it. Yeah, of course. And and I was uh partially asleep. I heard him come in, but the first thing he said was, What the fuck is this? And I was like, A, he's probably been drinking on the airplane, and B, there's something else going on. So the next day he was taking a nap in a the love seat in the living room, and Landry was, I want to say she was about two, and he had given her his phone to watch a video, like YouTube or something. She was watching Peppa, I don't know. And you know how on YouTube, on your phone, it can minimize to the small corner. Yeah. And so she brought it over to me and said, Mommy, can you make this bigger? And so she brought me the phone. Well, the screen behind the minimized YouTube screen was a Snapchat conversation. And I see the words, Are you alone right now? And I was like, Huh. I responded back real quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:04

I'm sure. And uh Snapchat, huge red flag. Any grown adult that has Snapchat. It's just it's just a red flag. It's a huge range.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:13

It didn't delete the whole conversation. Oh my god, because it was already open.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:16

So what were you doing at this time?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:18

Yes. I said, and it said, uh, are you alone right now? I said, Yes, I am. And the next picture that comes through is a girl topless in her panties, and I was like, gosh, so I get out my phone, take a picture, I videoed it. I took a video and I scrolled all the way to the top of that conversation. Oh, and I recorded everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:42

Sorry to the girl whose titties that you have saved on your phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

More than that. Oh, God. And the whole I recorded the whole conversation, and he had spent the entire week with her on his business trip in her hotel room, flying together. I mean, they went the whole nine yards, the sex, everything. They were talking about it. Dirt dirty talk that I've never heard someone say before. That is wild. Graphic. So now are you like, do I even know who my husband is? I mean, my heart was racing.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:10

I'm sure you felt so sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

It was back to that fight or flight mode. Like, what do I do in this? And thankfully I had recorded it, and he didn't, he's to this day doesn't know I recorded it. And so, you know, I gave her back the phone and he woke up from this nap like 20 minutes later, and we were supposed to go to dinner together as a family for our 10-year anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:29

Oh my god, how are you like acting like how are you keeping your composure?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:33

I'm not, I'm secretly losing, like I'm I was physically shaking, like my I was holding my phone just shaking, and my heart was racing. Uh, it still like makes makes me anxious right now talking about it. And um he woke up and he said, Why aren't you ready? I said, We're not going anywhere. He's like, What? I said, Who were you with in Florida? He's like, I was working. Oh my god. And I just started calling him on it, and I said, Who is and I said her name, and he was like, just a friend, like a friend that you with. And uh I said, I know all about it, and we're done. And uh was he shocked? He was shocked. You could tell, like, he just woken up, so you could tell it like wasn't processing. He's probably like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, he was like, What can I do to cover this up?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:17

Yeah, yeah. And he was stuck. That is like God's timing.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:23

Like, like that was, and I was like, literally, we're supposed to go to our 10-year. And so it's just like, are you freaking king? And let me preface too, or I should have said this before. That morning he took Landry to a birthday party. Was it with our little friends? And the conversation, the timestamps were while he's at a unicorn birthday party at the park, talking he's messaging the seeing it and sending pictures, and it was like, You're at our daughter's friend's birthday party.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:51

Can you not cheat for a second, please?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:52

Put it off for 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:54

Literally, literally.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:55

So it was it was sickening. And uh, you know, prior to that, it was the you know, the cheating, the abuse, all that stuff. And he had also gotten abusive once when I was holding Laodray in my arms, and that was a few weeks prior to finding out about that, and that's when I was like, we're done. Yeah. I said, and after the first cheating experience, I had told him, if you ever want to cheat or not be with me, give me the respect to just tell me. Yeah, don't let me find out like I found out on the last one. And he couldn't do that, so I was mad, I was livid. Um, I told him he needed to leave. He did leave reluctantly, he did leave, yeah, and packed up all of our stuff, and I went to mom and dad's and uh I didn't tell mom and dad I was coming, but I showed up to their back door and I have Landry in a bag, and mom's like, Oh, you moving in? And I was just like, You're like, I actually am. So yeah, sat there at the dinner table with them and told them everything. And you know, I said, This is what happened on his business trip, but I'm done, and I need to tell you about everything else, just so it's a trash decision. I told him about the honeymoon, I told him about the abuse, I told him.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:06

What was their reaction?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:08

They were they were upset that I hadn't come to a singer, but they understood, and it was one of those like why did I stay that long? That that conversation, too. But it was like, We're glad you're telling us this now, but we need to get you out. And so that was the first time that I was like, I feel like I can do this because I financially I couldn't do it before, and so going to mom and dad and saying, I need help, what can we do?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:32

From what we've talked about too this whole time, like that shows like growth, I feel like, because now you're like, okay, I need to put my ego aside and like my pride aside, and just be able to say, like, I need help and be vulnerable. And that's what you needed in that moment, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:48

And and this this is different too because it's like I had Landry now, and it's like I it's not just about you. I don't want her to think that's okay. I don't want her to grow up seeing daddy with different women, you know. I want her to have a happy, healthy marriage and see what a real one looks like, not what I'm living through because I'm not setting a good example. And so it was a game changer with her between that and then, you know, when he got abusive with her in my arms, like, you know, it's just a moment like no, like that this cannot happen anymore. I mean, it was a a red flag, lots of red flags at that point, but it was like the cherry on top. It's like I I'm done. So it was a big swallow for me to be able to go tell parents about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:27

Well, were did they do you remember? Like, were they surprised, like shocked?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:31

They were surprised that it got to that extent, but they've no they had noticed narcissistic tendencies long before that. Okay. And I had too, but it was one of those where it was like I was trying to fix it, and I was like, I can help with this. And so looking back, there were lots of red flags. I chose to ignore them and try to fix it, and I shouldn't have. But they weren't surprised after I told them everything. It was that's to go, you just feel like an ultimate screw up. It's devastating to go to your parents and say everything. Because then they feel guilty too, because they have this whole level of, why do you feel like you couldn't come to us? And I don't want to put that burden on them either. It's like it's not y'all's fault. Yeah, I should have said something and I chose not to. So that was all on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:09

I also feel like too, I can't I can't imagine myself in that situation, but I just feel like that's you keeping yourself safe. Because if you don't tell anybody, okay, I'm safe and I'm here and I can control what's going on, the best of my ability. But if you tell your family, then they're gonna try and step in and then you no longer have all the control. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:26

And ultimately, after everything, after everything that had happened, it was like I was still trying to protect Ryan. And he was the last one I should have been protecting. But it was still like, no matter how much of an asshole he was, and all this stuff that he was doing, I was still trying to protect my own family because that was a decision that I made to marry him.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:43

Well, and yeah, I feel like it's so hard. Like you're saying, you've always wanted to be a mom, you've always wanted to be married in this relationship and have a happy, healthy family. So now the reality is that's not that's not your reality, but you have to give up this picture for the time being.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:58

Well, and then then you have that whole custody stuff that you worry about too. And you know, for me to not have been a contributing factor to the divorce, and then I don't get to see my kid every day that I've raised for the first four years of her life, ultimately on my own, because he was never around. You know, that that's terrifying because it's like I'm taking I'm choosing to follow through with this and lose time with my daughter. And that's why I held on too, because it was like I don't want to lose any time with her, that it's not fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:25

I can only imagine too, and I feel like it makes so much it makes so much more sense to me now when you are like I I I cry when Andrew leaves me because I mean frankly, to say it like super frank, like the people you love keep getting taken away.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

And it is, and that's it's hard because I don't after everything that I'd been through and uh the amount of grace that I've given him for him to do that and take away her from me 40% of the time. I didn't deserve that. No, you don't, and we we have the opportunity to co-parent well and to make that decision to do good together. And for some reason he's mad at me for divorcing because I went through with it, and now you're using our daughter as a pawn. It just I don't think it's it is. I I don't understand it, and it's something that I will hate him forever for, and my family does. It's just you did this, you caused this, but we're the ones who lose time with her because of your decision, and he won't take accountability because how how could it be his fault?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:28

No, nothing's his fault now.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:30

So yeah, it's been a b it's been a big battle, just you know, in it to this day, you know, he uses her as a pawn, and um, you know, he never does wrong, and anything that I say is incorrect, it has to be his idea, and and you know, just to see that that effect that that takes on Landry already, that she's already seeing those types of things, just devastating. Like a six-year-old shouldn't be able to see or say things like that that they've lived through. I don't know. And Landry too, the um when I was packing up after I served him the papers, packing up the house, getting boxes, and when I was packing up all my closet stuff, I put everything on one side of the closet on my side. It didn't interfere with where he was, it was where my stuff was originally, it just sat down in boxes.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:16

And there was one day that he got so mad because I had, you know, packed up a lot of my stuff, and I think it was getting real for him because to that point he had been telling everybody, Oh, she's just gonna do the divorce, but we're gonna get back together. Oh my gosh. And uh what world is he living in? He's delusional, and uh, so I I don't know what flipped him off one day, but I guess too many boxes. And so he went through and he started throwing my stuff in the garage, yelling, screaming, he broke our closet light, and all of this while I'm holding Landry. And I, you know, I took a video of it and I had it in my bra, just so I had some sort of documentation, like what is going on? Landry, you know, she'll say occasionally she'll be like, I wish you and daddy lived in the same house again. You know, why are you and daddy not together? And you have to have that conversation, like, well, honey, do you remember the last time we were in the same house at our old house? And she said, Yeah. I said, What was the last thing that you remember happening? And she said, Daddy broke a closet, light, and was screaming. And, you know, that's a what was she four at the time? And I said, That's that's not a happy household. And mommies and daddies, sometimes they need to live separately to provide a safe environment, and that's what we're doing for you because nobody should be around that, and to have that conversation with your four-year-old just breaks your freaking heart. And it's like I had a good example of parents and what a marriage should be with my mom and dad, and I want her to see that, but she wasn't seeing that from him, and so now I don't want her to settle from growing up. It's like I didn't think that's normal.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:42

No, and yeah, that's that is more important, obviously, than coming off as the perfect family, yeah, especially in today's world of like social media. This is literally what we were talking about. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:58

And I was one of those, you know. I'd only post the good stuff, you know, post the highlights, and I and I never post it a lot, anyways. Like when you go through my stuff, you you go like two swipes since three years ago. But those things were happy times, happy moments, yeah. And nobody posts the bad stuff, and um, you know, I think that's why it was so hard when I finally did just swallow it and say everything, and no one would have thought I was gonna get divorced of all the people that I went to school with and I was the last one to get divorced.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:27

Bam. Do you think that your divorce was more painful from the perspective as a wife or as a mother? A mom. A mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:38

Because I know I was a good wife. I knew I stayed loyal as shit. Um I know I'm a good wife. I know that I didn't have to question that. I know I'm a damn good mom. But it hurt more so as a mom because it's like I wanted my daughter to see what my parents had. And so I felt like a failure in that aspect that she didn't have a dad who was kind, genuine, you know, endearing, sincere. She didn't get to see that. And when she was a baby, he's he'll be the first to say he's not a baby person. Like he wasn't so he just doesn't want to help. He he likes them when they get older and are more self-sufficient. So it was like me and Landry for the first four years. That's all it was. Basically a single mom. Basically a single mom. So it's really hard just to I don't know. You want to have that perfect family for your kid, and that's where I felt like I failed. And to hope, like maybe one day I'll be able to find that. But now here I am 38. I have you see you see who's left on the dating app season. Oh my gosh, it's a little scary. So it's slim pickups, just so um, you know, at this point, it's like my family is just pouring into Landry, and you know, my mom and dad talk to her a lot. What a what a marriage is and a happy one is. You know, they show that whenever she goes to the farm with them, and so that's what we're relying on at this point to set an example because it's just me.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:02

Maybe law in order, you know. Do a law in order. What was the hardest part of truly becoming a single mom financially?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:09

And what they don't like going through the divorce, now it's where you feel you really understand why it's so hard that people for them to get out, why they stay, because it's impossible. And had my dad not have been able to help me, I wouldn't have been able to get out at all. Um, with a divorce, when you're married, you split half the house. Um, if somebody, if one of them stays, you split the cost, and they basically buy you out of your half of the house. But they have 90 days to pay you your half of the house. And so in those 90 days, you're supposed to be out within 30 days after the divorce is done. So, what are you gonna do for those 60 days? Because you don't have money up front to put down the house, nothing. And um, thankfully, my dad, my parents are phenomenal and they have the ability to help. So they fronted all of that while it took him, he didn't pay till day 90. Let's be real. Um, so dad was able to front all of that money that I was getting from the house to put on this one. Now, then as soon as I got paid that in the 90 days, I just gave him that back just as you know, reimbursement for what he was able to do up front. If I didn't have him and I'm seeing while all these people stay, because financially you just can't do it. I wasn't one who had savings. We didn't even have joint account. I lived off my own money and he was stashing money away. Oh my god. And so, again, another red flag that I just didn't really pay attention to. But, you know, as a the one at home, you you're not I lived off my money. Yeah. And so it's not like I had all these bills and all that stuff in my name because I was paying for tuition. And that was my main goal was that and the the uh utilities, water, gas, all that stuff. And he did the mortgage. But I was like, that's not an even trade. No, it's not even close. No financially getting out on your own, and you know, I don't I don't make a ton of money by any means. I make enough to live on, you know, to be able to afford a house and the mortgages and and everything that comes along with having a child. I know, and you know, even apartments these days are fifteen hundred dollars a month, two thousand it's it's terrible out there, and so that and that's where I was like, I don't have enough credit and all of that stuff built up to buy a house and do all these things. So it was it was very hard financially to figure that out, and I couldn't have done it without my family. So I'm thankful. Thankful, and that you went to them, yeah. And so now we're out happy and safe and on our own, and it's great, but it's still stressful. I mean, it's it's not like I have extra money sitting around all the time. You know, you just make it work one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:38

And you have to you have to, and you've got your reminder every single day as your why. And it's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:44

I mean, we make it we make it happen. But um, that's probably been the hardest part about it. It's just hard out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:50

It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:50

No, it is. So bad. We don't you don't think of like you know, you think of bills, you just think of like a mortgage and a phone. You don't realize there's car insurance, there's health insurance. There's school tuition. There's all these things. Gymnastics. Gymnastics.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:05

It all adds up.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:06

It all adds up. And it's gonna keep adding up. That's the hard part. As they get older, yeah. It's the finances are stressful. That was the that was the hardest part for me, too. And I, you know, I definitely felt some embarrassment when I was living with my parents, but I'm like, I I couldn't have afforded she couldn't even go to daycare because of how strict New England is. But you know, she wouldn't have been able, I wouldn't have been able to afford a babysitter, an apartment, food, like going to work. I was working at the bar. I couldn't have done that had I not been with my parents and had their help. If you've been looking for skincare that's truly clean, simple, and made with intention, let me tell you about our sponsor, Know Your Natural Roots. Know Your Natural Roots creates 100% natural, non-toxic tallow skincare that's handmade with love. Their products are made from 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef tallow with no antibiotics and no added hormones, just pure traditional skincare the way it was meant to be. And what I really love, it's safe for everyone, from babies up to the oldest person in your family. This is the skincare you can feel confident using on the whole family. They offer everything from deeply moisturizing balms and creams to natural makeup. All crafted with skin-loving ingredients that you can actually recognize and trust. If you're ready to simplify your routine and let your skin thrive naturally, check out know your natural roots. Know your ingredients, know your source, know your natural roots. Use code MILLSEASISON for 15% off your order today. And remember, let your natural beauty shine. What would you tell a woman who feels stuck in a relationship that isn't serving her anymore?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:08

Um, as hard as it is, there is always a way to make it happen. I think the biggest problem with women and with me was I was too afraid to ask for help. And reality is, everybody that I know would have poured in to help me make it happen one way or another. And it was I was just too blind to it and too prideful to accept the help or to go ask for help. And so I think for anyone these days, if you feel like you can't get out, call me because I'm gonna help you. Like we're gonna figure this out one way or another. DM me on Instagram, I'll give you Aaron's number. Find me. Because there's always a way. It's just you may have to swallow a few pride pills and you know, reach out to people and you know, programs out there that can help that you don't ever think you want to do. There's a way you just have to be willing to accept it. Put your pride aside, damn it. Because that's what I had to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:59

Dating. I know you've said you've been on the dating sites too. How do you foresee your dating future? Do you want to be dating? Do you want to get remarried?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:09

Listen, I don't want to date. I just want a southern country cowboys truck to break down in front of my house. And I'll bring them a bottle of water and the rest is history. Yeah. I don't want to go and experience all these dating all these people. Like, I can tell you what I want. If it fits the mold, then let's go on a date. I love it. If it doesn't, or if you have some questionable photos, no. No. I'll tell you, these dating apps, I'm very judgmental. We've talked about that. If you got a picture with your shirt off, done.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:38

Done. Dex.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:40

If you got a picture in front of your bathroom counter and you've got toothpaste on the mirror and all this crap all over your counter, I'm not your mom. Get out. Yeah. If you got a picture in your bedroom and your bed's not made, done. It is shame, shameful what these people are posting on these apps. And so that's really what's like, I have no hope of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:59

After experiencing what you've experienced, are there any qualities that you're like, absolutely fucking not? Uh well, I mean, I would say drinking is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:08

I don't mind if you have a drink on a special occasion. If you're drinking a lot or you know, every weekend you're out pounding three, four, five beers. No. Like a drink with dinner once a week, maybe twice a week, I can put up with. But anything more than that. So that's my well, one of my flags. Um, of course, I don't like smokers, drinkers, all of that. And then the other ones who like live off of social things, like they're always having to go out and be the loudest and you know, center of attention, and you know, all of that now is kind of a a flag for me and trigger, I think. Definitely. Looking for attention, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:46

So, what's going on behind?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:48

Yeah, what are you hiding? Yes, there's a there's a lot of those little red flags. Yeah. And then I feel like I'm never gonna find it. You have to hope.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:56

But would you get remarried?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:58

I would. Yes, yes. Um, uh I mean, I always wanted to be married, obviously. Sticking out for 10 years. Um, I do want to get remarried, but I also I'm not gonna settle. You're gonna protect your people. I'm fine on my own, I can do it on my own.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:11

I know that now.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:12

So I before I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:14

And so it was easier to just stay and settle and make it work and try to fix it. And now that I'm on my own, I'm like, I don't have to go back to that. So call me Picky, add that to my resume, and that's fine. The standards are set high and for good reason. Picky and helicopter mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:30

Yeah, someone's dream woman out there, I promise you.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:33

Somebody will love it. Um, but yeah, dating dating is rough. I don't and I don't enjoy it, honestly. I and like I said, I've only dated, you know, Jeff was my first serious relationship, Lost Team, and then then there was Ryan. There were a couple of couple of dates in between those, you know, here and there. But it was like, again, I'm not even gonna say yes to a to a date if I see something wrong, which is amazing. Yes, every girl needs to be. But I also don't have all that experience either. Like I feel like I don't know, I need to get more out there than I just don't want to. Oh, I just I don't know. I just want I just want a low-key, genuine relationship that really is focused on family. And I don't I don't need all the hustle and bustle and the wine and dine and all that stuff. I just want somebody who just cares about family and and make that a priority. Yeah, I'm telling you. They just gotta be a gentleman, a decent human being.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:34

If you have a nice truck and you're a cowboy, I've got an address to give you to break down.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:39

Go break down in front of their new water.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:43

I love it. I love it. Let's just kind of wrap things up by talking about the program that you were in and now that you leave. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:55

So five years ago, this was before the divorce, um, we had gone to our church pastor saying we need help. And he said, There's a program, try this. Well, you know, we went to the program, it was they have it weekly, and we get in there and we're talking to the people, and it turns out it's a year-long program. Oh man. Didn't know that. So it's like, oh crap. So get into this program, and um basically it's a church 12-step program, essentially. Okay, but it's geared towards uh recovery and traumas, and it could be things as simple as anxiety or depression, it could be things as extensive as you know, sexual abuse, eating disorders, um, you know, grief, abortions, everybody, all walks of life, if they have anything that has been traumatic to them, it's one of those programs. And you're going in by yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:46

So, well, so there's men and women groups. Okay. So they usually have a big old um gathering at first where we, you know, do some worship music and we listen to some of the testimonies of some of the previous people who've been through it, and then you break off into groups, women with women, men with men. And that provides some like sense of peace and security. Of course. So, because some people with abuse, you can't talk about that in front of men, so it's separate. Um, but it's a year-long 12 steps. We initially went for our marriage. Year one was for our marriage to fix it. Oh gosh. He quit halfway through, and uh, so I continued to go. Yeah. I finished the program. Year two, I've been in it five years now. Year two, I went for my own accountability because I didn't want to take steps back and I wanted to keep using the tools that I had learned to maintain the next trauma that's gonna happen. Year three was the affair. I wouldn't even say affair, it wasn't an emotional, it was just a cheating sexual thing. So the cheating was year three, year four was when I finally said divorce, and year five is right now that's me finding my own independence. And so it's been a really good program, and usually it's a one and done. Most people just take it for a year, but for me, I felt like I just need it a lot to heal through, a lot to heal from, and there's like I said, it's still a lot of anger and resentment. And usually people get through the program, they're like, oh, you know, I'm doing well, and you know, I've rebuilt my trust or whatever they're going through. A lot of people are done. But I I still have a lot of it that I have to deal with and not ready to quit because I feel like the second that I stop this program, I'm gonna take steps back and I'm gonna go back into my hole of the deep dark thoughts and you know, take take backwards leaps and just be back to where I was miserable and scared and not safe anymore. So it's been good, but I think that's ultimately where I found the courage to get out to because I had people there to support me and encourage me to get out. Yeah. Like light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, and though the that program's really good because you have people from all walks of life, and we all feel broken. You know, we're all just broken people walking around, and you don't realize what everyone's been through before until you're sitting there and you hear everyone else's stories, and it makes you realize, like, hey, I'm not alone in this. Everyone else has gone through similar things, and you know, some of them are out of it on the other side. And so that was helpful because it was like I got to see people who have gone through, yeah, gone through the same thing or a little bit different, but they came out okay on the on the back end. And I was like, okay, well, I can do this too. So it was helpful. Um, but yeah, this is year five. And you lead now? Yeah. So I did one year as a participant and then four leading, and then I'll start it again next year. We're halfway through right now. So um, we'll start another group, I think, in September is what they're starting it all over again.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:36

Oh my gosh. Year six. I'm a sucker. Well, if it's working, that's what's important.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:41

Well, that's my thing. And like, you know, for it was another red flag. It was telling when Ryan quit the first one because this program is really about in looking inside your bubble. Uh, you know, we go, we went there for our marriage, but the whole program is what's what's going on internally and what is my contribution. What am I doing wrong? Why am I causing all of these things? It's not about Ryan cheated, that's why I'm here, you know? And so the whole program we're encouraged to stay within our realm and our bubble and make it about us, don't make it about anyone else. And I think that was hard for him because he doesn't want to have any recognition. Well, as a narcissist, a narcissist, yeah. What they do is that everything is everyone else's fault and they're perfect. So he quit. And to this day, he says that program is bullshit. And he says, and I'm just doing it to put on an act. I'm like, why would I take off why would I work five years straight of a Monday for four hours, lose time with my daughter and listen to a lot of other people's traumas? Like, and look who's happy and who's not.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:43

So yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:44

Look who's healing and who has not. So yeah, it's it's a great program. I love it. Um, but I think that was the only only way I had the courage to get out too, because you know, having those women there to encourage me and be there. Yeah. Not like they were saying, Yes, you need out, because it there's a lot of um, it's kind of the unspoken role is there's not really a lot of crosstalk. It's not like, well, you need to do this and call this person. Like they're not telling you to fix their problems, we're just here to support each other and to have that kind of peace, like they're gonna be there for me no matter what happens was helpful because I also couldn't have done it without that either.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:20

And is that when you found your relationship with God again?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:23

I'd say yes, but it's still working on it. Okay, yes. Um, so yes, like I know, I know God is real, I know he's there, I know I'm to trust him, and I know I should trust abundantly without hesitation, but I'm still working on that, and that's why I'm still in it five years later. Yeah. Because I I've still have that hump that I can't get over of why these things happen. And the sad thing is, is like they'll continue to happen. Like something's probably gonna happen next year. That's just life, and I just have a hard time accepting that and not taking it personal from God. So I don't know. I just I it's a me problem. I'm the problem.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:04

No, you are not the problem. It's me.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:06

No, um, so yeah, I don't know. I just I need to fully accept it and I know the right answers and I know what I should be doing, but there's always gonna be that hesitation from you. And the the program is there to help. Yeah, I just and I encourage anyone to do it. It's it's been a blessing, and I've I've gone through so many counselors and therapists and all these things, but nothing has worked like this program. And I think the big part about that is like you can go talk to somebody about your feelings and the oh, how does that make you feel? Like we're gonna try to fix you. And this one isn't like that, and so I think that was kind of different and helpful for me to not feel the pressure of let's just fix it now. This is what you need to do. It's more of understanding the root of the problem because it's it's about me. So, what did I do to contribute? So the from the honeymoon, the cheating, and all of these things, the abuse, I had him at arm's length and I was always hesitant. And maybe I should have trusted him more. I don't think so. But um, I do know ultimately that contributed to him mining intentions elsewhere. Yeah. So I take that accountability, but I don't think it warrants all the stuff that he did either. No, it does not. It does though. Um, I will be the first to say that I I do know I I had a play in it, but I just don't think it's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:27

You just feel like I gotta I gotta tussle this one out with God. I do. I do. So I'm I'm still working on it. This has literally been amazing. I know. It's like real time. I know. That's what I love about doing this, is like even when I'm just by myself, I'm just like yapping. And like, first of all, it's healing to talk about things and get them out and open, but I just really feel like I'm just like having a talk with like my best friends who just like totally done it six months ago. I know, I know, but you know what? I needed this time, like I think we needed the time to like get to know each other more. When you said the adoption, the fostering, I was like, I think that there's something here, and I think that I'm gonna talk about it. And so that's why I was like coming up with like all these questions case. Maybe my intuition was wrong. My inspiration. No, no, I did not think there would be boring. But I'm just I'm so grateful that you came and that you were so open and honest, and I'm I think that this will be healing and I don't know. I just I have a really good feeling that this is gonna touch a lot of people because I think we touched on a lot of things that people aren't willing to talk about. Yeah, and I'm so grateful that you're willing to and made me tear up and I don't know. I'm like, wow, I just you just don't know people until you talk to them about artists. Thank you for being open. Well, thanks to this I'm meowed.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:45

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:46

No, I'm so grateful that you came and that you talked to them. We were so open anytime.