67: Trust That Builds A Brighter Marriage with Tori Tippens

What if submission isn’t shrinking but shining? We sit down with Tori to unpack a version of biblical submission that protects passion, nurtures safety, and deepens unity—without asking women to mute their voices or bury their gifts. Through honest stories from 12 years of marriage and 17 years of partnership, Tori shares how trust in Christ’s order transformed “losing myself” into “living aligned.”

We trace the journey from cultural noise to scriptural clarity, confronting myths that equate leadership with control and fulfillment with self-sovereignty. Ephesians 5 takes center stage, not as a weapon but as a map: husbands loving sacrificially, wives offering respect, both under Christ. Tori explains how her husband’s consistent sacrifice made respect a joyful gift, and why “Do you trust me?” echoes both a spouse’s question and God’s invitation. We dig into how safety enables a woman’s strengths to flourish, and why a vibrant Proverbs 31 life fits perfectly within this design.

You’ll hear practical ways to keep your voice strong while honoring your husband’s leadership: marriage meetings to surface hopes and fears, honest prayer when trust feels thin, and a powerful posture for hard moments—doubling down on trust instead of saying “I told you so.” We also address complex seasons when a spouse isn’t walking closely with God and how to pursue wisdom, counsel, and steady obedience without enabling harm.

If you’re curious, cautious, or ready to try, this conversation offers steps you can use today: get specific about your fears, return to Scripture, ask better questions, and practice words that “scoot you closer” to your spouse’s heart. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who needs encouragement, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what’s one way you’ll practice trust this week?

Recommended Resources:

14: Transforming Marriages One Meeting at a Time with Tori Tippens (Apple)

14: Transforming Marriages One Meeting at a Time with Tori Tippens (Spotify)

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Context

Leanne Tuggle 0:50

Tori, welcome back to Whatever is Excellent. It's so fun to have you back on the show. The episode that we recorded last year, we were just talking before recording here, the conversation we had on marriage meetings last year is still the most downloaded episode of this entire show. And so I love to have you back here. And I cannot wait to hear the wisdom that you have to share with us today. For those of you who may not know you though, would you take just a minute and share a little bit about yourself? Sure. Thank you so much for having me.

Tori Tippens 1:23

I'm excited to be back. So I am a wife, mom of three, Jesus follower. It's it just permeates everything that I do in life and as a wife and a mom and passionate about ministry, get to serve in some anti-human trafficking and some foster care areas. And then I get to work for my family's company. And so family is a huge big part of my life and is important to me. I've been married to my, I guess my, I would call my college sweetheart, even though we didn't meet at college for 12 years. We've been together for 17 years. He, my parents say that he is the base to my acid. That I'm a very passionate person. And so I'm very, I guess the word is like, I get excited about things quickly. And they always say that like he's just like the base that comes in and just smooths everything over. And so I feel like God has just given me such a gift in that relationship with him. And we get to do life together and try to keep our three crazy people all alive. And that's what life looks like these days.

Redefining Submission From Fear To Gift

Leanne Tuggle 2:26

I love it. I love it. Today, our conversation, we're going to be talking about biblical submission. And this is something that you and I have chatted about before. And so I'm excited to just kind of hear your take on that. And so when you hear the words biblical submission, what comes to mind first?

Tori Tippens 2:43

Well, it's really funny because you know, we've been talking about this podcast for a couple of months. And I went ahead and asked my husband before I agreed to this podcast, like, hey, do you feel like I do a good enough area in this area that I could talk about it in a podcast? Because I was like, he laughed a little bit when I said I was talking about we were gonna talk about submission. I was like, and I knew he would laugh because, like I mentioned, I'm a very passionate person. So I think that there's this, there's what's interesting is there's this biblical submission, and then there's what people think submission is. And now when I hear submission, I think of something very different than what I would have heard when we first got married. We had an amazing family friend who married us, did our marriage counseling, and he actually just passed this year unexpectedly. But he and his wife had this incredible marriage, and you could see biblical submission really walked out so beautifully in their life. And when we first got married, or when we were going through counseling, I think I thought about submission, even though I grew up in a Christian home. I think I thought about submission a lot more like the world sees it right now, which is losing your voice, having to let someone else be like the buck stops with them. I I think before I got married, the idea of submission was I would be giving up my passioness about whatever the Lord had given me, or or losing part of myself to whatever somebody else wanted. And that was very scary. Now, 17 years in a relationship, and we'll kind of talk about this later, but it feels there's it's such a difference. But in my mind, I was in school for psychology and leadership, and the idea of submission almost kind of felt like I am this like if you think of it almost like one of those like like uh leaf burners, like a oh yeah you put in the yard, I forget what they're called, but you burn the you burn the leaves, and there's just like this bright fire coming out. In my mind, submission was like someone putting a lid on top of my fire. And that and as our family friend started, his name was Mr. Jerry, would walk through what scripture would say about marriage and how you complement each other and how we submit ourselves to Christ and you burn brighter together. It was funny at our vowel vows, he in front of our wedding was like, and you know, Tori, you promised to submit to Brandon. We talked about this, didn't we? And like the whole, you know, everyone at our wedding just erupts in laughter. And so when I said I was gonna do this podcast, Brandon's like, Oh, the Lord's been preparing you for this for a while. Yeah. And so when I think of submission now, 70 years into a relationship, 12 years into a marriage, I think of submission as an absolute gift. It's the gift of knowing that the person that I'm married to loves me so much and always has me in mind that I can trust his decision making because he's gonna ask me questions. But essentially, there always has to be a leader, right? Christ is the head over my husband, and my husband is the head over our home. And I get to lean into his heart for us, but I would say that when I was younger, submission truly to me felt like losing, losing myself, and in the kindness of the Lord and in his mercy, he has taken me on this journey that submission feels I don't want to say it feels like the closest to the relationship with himself where Jesus submits to the Father. It's the only other place in this world than you that you can experience that spiritual connection with someone, and it only isn't uh is in the area of uh our oneness with Christ and our oneness with our spouse. Uh it's not a very very pretty, like bow definition, but uh there there is what people think of of submission and then what submission truly is.

Misconceptions And Cultural Noise

Leanne Tuggle 7:01

Sure. Yeah, no, I think that's really great. There's so many wonderful things that you said in there. And it as you were talking, I was just thinking about how as believers we are to submit to to Christ and that he always has our best interest in mind too. Just like you're saying, you your husband has your best interest in mind, and yet we still struggle with even surrendering to God and let his will be done because we are always thinking that we know better. And I think that's the same thing that we struggle with as women. I mean, it's back even to the Garden of Eden, right? Like Eve was struggling with that. Like, do I think I know better than God or I think I have a better plan? Yeah. And so I'm gonna do it my way. And so just being able to submit to our husbands is kind of like a precursor or like a way to practice submitting to Christ, too, is what I was thinking of when you were talking about that. But I think that's really lovely. Well, you you kind of like touched on it just a little bit, but maybe you can speak a little bit more about there's there's a lot of misconceptions about uh submission and and especially amongst Christmas Christian women, like you were you were just speaking that, like even for you growing up, even in a Christian home. But how how can we correct some of those misconceptions about submission with the truth?

Tori Tippens 8:13

Yeah, that's a great question. We always have to go to God's word. We always have to go to God's word, and we always have to get on our knees because even even when you go to church on Sunday, our role, even as we're sitting and learning, we always have to go back to the word and double check and see is what is what is being taught what is true. And I think another way as women is to pour into our daughters. I have two daughters, to pour into our daughters not only what biblical submission looks like, what they'll get to see in our own home growing up. I don't know if your kids do this, but my kids are in that age where if daddy says no, then they come and ask me and I immediately say, Hey, dad and I are a team. If daddy says no, the answer is no. And he does the same thing for me. He says, if your mom's already said no, and it's it's in small and big ways mirroring what that submission looks like. And then it's also encouraging younger women who are getting married to trust the process that God has for them because the world is very, very loud about how foolish they think that submission is. We have, I don't know if we're still in it, I've kind of disconnected, but the the last couple years, the boss babe era, the the a lot of the the guy staying at home so the woman can chase her dreams or and I'm not saying that that's bad, and that might not even be out of biblical submission. I don't know what their marriage looks like, but there's been almost the feminist movement is such a lie of these, these empty promises that you're going to once you self-actualize, we're on, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Now we've we've self-actualized, and that's what brings this fulfillment and and it's these mutual voices. But when you look at scripture, Jesus submitted to God. He said, Not my will, but your will be done. And my husband and I joked a little bit, he just finished his his doctorate this year. And so there's been a lot of places where I've taken things off of my calendar so that he could work on his doctorate. And he hated when I said this, but he knew I was kidding. I would say, Oh, like I must become lesser and you must become greater. He's like, Oh my gosh, don't say that. But all I meant was you're working on this really big important thing, and I don't mind taking things off of my plate to give you the space of that. And he does the exact same thing for me in other seasons. But I think the greatest thing that we can do to correct that is live it boldly and humbly. We're not telling other people how they should live, but when other people see this biblical submission lived out and it working in a way that produces a lifelong marriage full of joy and happiness and godliness, not putting on a show, not saying we're something that we're not, we're full of mistakes, we're people, but people to go, oh wait, maybe there is something to that, and to encourage younger women that it is okay to submit to your husband in the beginning, so that you give him like that he gets that muscle memory that you trust him that gives him the boldness to keep trying. Um, because when we say, Well, I I tried it that way, and um, but then you know, it didn't turn out how I wanted, or he made a mistake or whatever, we're not, we're not our submission is not contingent on our husband be being perfect. Our submission is contingent on our God being perfect and the alignment that He put. And so both trusting the person that you marry and and trusting God. And we won't go into this, but obviously there's a whole subside of this of making sure that the person that you marry, you know, there's all that side. But when God has showed you it's the right person and when you're both walking godly, then you can't hold this back. It's on you can't say, Well, I'm gonna give you all these things, but not this thing.

Ephesians 5 And The Gospel Picture

Leanne Tuggle 12:21

Oh, that's so good. There's so many great things, so many nuggets in there that you have shared. And I think that when it comes down to it, it's just that what you said, living it out, living out that submission, because that's what stands out. You can talk about it all day long, but if you don't live it, if you are not an example of it, then your words mean nothing. Right. So I think that showing that I I did a study on First Corinthians 13 over the Christmas season and just like understanding truly what love means. And for us as women, love really does mean submitting and and and not so that you don't have a voice, but so that you are trusting and respecting your husband. Which brings me to Ephesians 5, which is an often referenced passage of scripture in this conversation. And so I'm curious to know how do you interpret the call for wives to submit and husbands to love sacrificially?

Keeping Your Voice While Submitting

Tori Tippens 13:18

Yeah, it's I think what's so beautiful about this verse is I was I was reading it last night, actually, and one of the most beautiful things is it starts with wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord. It's this little part, and then the whole passage goes on of having the husband lay down his wife, his life for his wife and to submit to the Lord. And it ends with, and wives must respect her husband. And I think that the way that this is biblically, you kind of hear their buzzwords in the in, you know, the Christian space of love and respect, right? There's a whole book on it and the crazy cycle. And if a woman doesn't feel loved, then she's not necessarily being respectful. And if you know, man feels unrespected, then he's not being loved. God knew the needs of a man and a woman. And a woman not only needs to feel loved, but she also needs to feel safe. And when we feel safe in our own home and in our role, we are truly able to flourish. And when we're giving our respect to our spouse, then they're able to have that strong covering over our home that we can abide in, if you will. And so what's so beautiful about this passage is God is calling, you know, you were talking about like how does this, how does this look like and what does this translate? It's so beautiful because our marriage gets to be the picture of the gospel. And this passage is what calls us to that. And I was thinking about it was interesting. I was praying over this podcast, I was driving down the road, and the Lord put this thought in my heart was that when Jesus submitted to God in the garden, and he said, like, I don't want to do this, like, I don't want to lay down my life for this, but not my will, but yours be done. On the other side of Christ's sacrifice was life for us. And I was thinking about how when we sacrifice us having to have our own way for the respect of our husband, the life that's on the other side of that is like this this depth of a relationship that can't be experienced in any other way, in any other place in this world. And so when I read this passage, when I was younger, I would have read this as probably, okay, God, I I trust you and I trust your win and those is true, but I'm kind of probably gonna breeze past this a little bit, like maybe I won't submit everything, you know, or I'll just let them really know like what I want. But when I read this now as a mom of three, married 12 years, this is an invitation to go deeper into your walk with the Lord, into your into the walk with your with your husband. And I only can speak from my own marriage, but I have watched Brandon over and over and over and over and over sacrifice for our family. And I have he has never ever asked me to submit to him. Like the words never come out of his mouth, like, hey babe, like remember Ephesians 5, you gotta submit. He's never ever said, You need to submit to me, but I have heard him before say, Do you trust me? Like, do you trust me? And God is asking us this here. Do you trust me? That this alignment that I have put that mirrors the gospel will take you to a depth in your relationship with me and a depth in the relationship with your spouse that you can experience, but it does require your obedience. And when I read this passage now, I can easily say, Yes, I trust you because I watch you give and give and give and give and give. And so my submission in my marriage now feels like a gift I have to give to him, to show him that I trust his leadership. And I think it's important that we actually give that gift before they earn it. We're not waiting on our spouse to get perfect, we're not waiting on year five for them to show us that they care enough. And just a little side context, we're talking, you know, you and I in this conversation, we're talking about a biblically aligned marriage. Like I can't speak to all the marriages. Right. If your marriage is in a hard space, if your husband is not submitting to the Lord, I think this will feel like sandpaper. I think it will feel like sandpaper because it's easy for me to trust Brandon when I know he's trusting the Lord. Right. If there has been things in your marriage that feel like I don't know that I can trust him, this will feel like sandpaper. But I think for those places, it's okay, but I do trust God. Right. So I'm gonna go to get in the word and I'm gonna ask God, show me what areas I can submit. Show like I'm not gonna hold everything back. Like, show me what areas I can give so that I can walk in obedience, that he would see the gospel and God's love for my husband through me in those places. And obviously that's a whole thing of find a good community, being, you know, find a good Christian biblical counselor, but we don't, even if our husbands are not perfect, which they never will be, right? We're all sinners, us as wives as well. We don't hold back our submission and our obedience until they get it right. We obey from the beginning so that that oneness can continue to develop over the years and that we can experience the the joy of the mirror of salvation in our marriages.

Leanne Tuggle 19:18

Totally. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that too, because yeah, we are speaking about a marriage that is biblically aligned, that is as God intended. And there are instances when that isn't the case. And so I love that you say, like, go to the Lord with it, ask him to show you, and to just continue to pray for your husband. I mean, we do that anyway, but especially if your husband isn't walking with the Lord or isn't submitting to God to be prayerful about that? That is a way to submit to him, is by praying for him. Right in that way. And I think that's really, really great. So you kind of mentioned this earlier, but I kind of want to unpack it a little bit more with you. How can wives walk in biblical submission while still using their voice and their gifts and their discernment and their wisdom within marriage? Like, what do you think that looks like?

Tori Tippens 20:06

I think it looks different for every marriage and every person. It's probably, I don't know if I should. It's a funniest story. I remember when we first got married, we'd been married probably like four years. And I started I had gotten involved in a lot of anti-human trafficking speaking, and Brandon was like the first to cheer me on. He was coaching wrestling all the time, and so I'd be doing rescues to get ladies to the safe home throughout the week. And then I started getting, you know, asked to speak at different things. And I'll never forget, I got two messages from two guys that were in our Sunday school class, like telling me that they saw pictures of me speaking and that they thought that I was in the wrong and that I should not be speaking to mixed groups. Um that pretty much like calling me out. And I remember my response was well, it's a good thing there's like a biblical head in our family, and his name is Brandon Tippins, and he's, you know, he's all for it. And I remember talking to him about that and him saying, you know, it doesn't matter what other people. perceive your life to be or what other people think your marriage should look like in submission. It matters what what God says and where we are. And so it's going to look different for other people. And some people may have issue with the way that you do it. I'm I I'm not going to ever like I I do believe that when preaching should be biblically it's done by man. There there is biblical roles but and we we should you know be abiding in them. And to unpack that question is is really truly going to be so different for different people but I really do think it looks like the things that God has put on your plate and your heart coming together and having conversation with your spouse and making decisions on those together. And if your spouse says hey I just don't feel right about that if your husband says I just don't feel right about that then I'm going there has been times Brandon said I just I just have a feeling and I'll say okay I trust you which is oh my gosh such an exhale because he's the one that answers to God for us. And and I only answer for my obedience but for one person it may look like the wife's role you know looking one way but for someone else it may look very very very different. And so I think that the commonality is that you're getting together praying you're walking in oneness and at the end of the day you're listening to the voice of your husband as he listens to the Lord because it's you like if you look at Proverbs 31 you see she's she's serving the needy she's serving her family it doesn't say she's sitting at home waiting for her husband to tell her what to do and to give her permission like we're not our husband does not become our parent because he's the head of the household it just means that the buck stops with him. I I asked Brandon about this last night. He's um in administration at a school and he said while I care about the opinion of the teachers I still have to lead. So the leader still makes a decision the buck still stops with him but he cares about the opinions and so I think all of us should be living vibrantly and and wisely and doing whatever it is that God calls us to do. We just have to be doing it in a way that honors our spouse and that the voice of our husband if there's a place that he says hey I think we should do this or we should do this that should be the thing even if they know that that's not your your favorite thing and and one other thing on that that the Lord really put on my heart was that if if our husband makes a decision and we kind of go okay well I think it might go this way in a poor way right and he still makes a decision we trust him and it still go like it goes south we should double down on our trust for our spouse not like oh hey I told you that was gonna happen no like does God do that with us no like that's where you say hey I know the decision that you made was with us in mind and I trust you I still trust you and so I think this will look different throughout our life in different areas in every different season but the commonality should be just that we are letting letting our our husband make that make that final final word but that doesn't make that doesn't mean that our life should be any less vibrant or right um bold for the gospel or for whatever God's called us to it just means that we're we're doing it in an order that honors honors God.

Practical Steps For Hesitant Wives

Leanne Tuggle 25:04

And also I think that the Lord blesses our obedience in that like I have seen that in my own life I see it for you like when we are honoring God's design for marriage and we are submitting I think that that boldness and that vibrance does come through and people can see that we are able to shine so bright because our husbands are leading us because we are trusting them to provide and keep us safe and all those kinds of things. I also like you have a very passionate outgoing personality but it is not tampered or put out because my husband isn't that way necessarily right but he allows me because I am trusting in the Lord and the He husband is guiding our family and leading our family we're able to shine bright together kind of like what you mentioned in the beginning. And I think that's just so wonderful. Well I we could talk about this for so so long but so many good things that you're sharing. But I wanted to ask you one other question. For the woman who's listening who desires to embrace this biblical submission like she's hearing what we're talking about and is like yes I want that but maybe she feels afraid or resistant or even just unsure what encouragement or first step would you share with her I would I would be honest with your husband and I would be honest with God your husband can feel if you're holding back your trust of him and God knows everything so he's not surprised I would say get in the word list out what are you afraid of what are you what are you truly afraid of happening and ask yourself like okay what's if the word what what happens if it's the worst thing he makes a decision and it doesn't go well.

Tori Tippens 26:49

If you trust your spouse then if you love if the the person that you're married to loves you fully then you're gonna make mistakes and grow together but it's important that you do it together. And we talked about this on the previous podcast but I can't recommend having a marriage meeting enough because when I talk to my husband about my hopes and fears in those places and I hear his hopes and the things that he's worried about it only causes me to trust him more. And then when we get to the section of like what is God showing you when I hear what God is showing him it helps me double down on my trust for him. Like I didn't know God was showing him that I didn't know that he cares so much about that. He told me this something this morning and I he was thinking forward for us and he joked he said I've been trying to get you still enough to tell you this and I was like washing dishes I was like okay what is it and I was like oh babe thanks like I mean it was something again him giving up something of himself to push us forward and so I think the more that just like the more that we get to know Christ the more that we give him of ourself in that sanctification process there really is a sanctifying process of marriage too the better we get to know our husband and his heart for us the easier it is for them for us to give more of ourselves and so trust the process don't hold back lean in get in the word pray about it and talk to your spouse because the only thing that you have to do is to gain in that relationship and as that relationship grows and like you were saying that protection that respect of your relationship that you get to thrive and burn bright as a as a picture of the gospel together and don't don't put it off as a side thing like I'll deal with I'll deal with that submission piece later. Like let that let let that let that be something that pulls you together and there's a prayer I pray in my heart sometimes and I've prayed over the last couple years is God how how can my words scooch scooch I use the word scooch scoot me closer to Brandon. How can I say this in a way that will scoot me closer to his heart and pray that God how can I how can I say this in a way that will scoot me closer to him that he would feel that I respect him and I trust him oh that's so beautiful.

Closing Gratitude And Reflections

Leanne Tuggle 29:11

I love that this is so so good. I think we all need just to hear these words and to just be reminded be reminded about how important marriage is it's such a beautiful thing and I mean God uses it as an example of that we are the bride of Christ and all that kind of stuff. So it's definitely important to God and it can be important to us. And so thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful wisdom with us. I appreciate you so much Tori for taking time to talk to us about biblical submission today.

Tori Tippens 29:44

Thanks for having me.