Black Girl, Brown Girl...Squirrel! A Podcast for Neurodivergent Women of Color

S2E5 - ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, and Comorbidities: Real Talk on Diagnosis, Therapy, & Self-Advocacy

• The Squirrels • Season 2 • Episode 5

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In this episode of Black Girl, Brown Girl… Squirrel!, we welcome our show bestie Jazz for part one of a real and hilarious conversation about ADHD, bipolar disorder type 2, anxiety, fibromyalgia, chronic migraines, therapy, diagnosis, and the comorbidities that can come with neurodivergence.

Jazz shares her perspective as both a certified pediatric nurse and certified neuroscience nurse, while also opening up about her own mental health journey, the long process of ADHD testing, finding the right therapist, and learning how to advocate for herself in healthcare.

We talk about therapy, medical self-advocacy, women’s pain, misdiagnosis, neurodivergent women of color, and what it means when ADHD “brings friends.” And yes, there are squirrel moments, laughter, drinks, and accidental energy drink chaos along the way. 🐿️

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Welcome Back, Squirrels

Speaker 1

Hey Lex. What's up, Shai? Are you ready? It's time for another episode of Black Girl, Brown Girl, Squirrel. Hey, Squirrel.

Speaker 2

Hello, friend. How you doing, Lex? I'm doing okay.

Speaker 1

I'm a little bit.

Speaker 2

I had a decent day today. I bought some shoes. I think I'm winning.

Speaker 1

Okay. I am super excited because I did a little purchase myself and it wasn't impulse spending. Yay! But because I'm trying to get because I'm trying to get my whole life together. And I had not been wearing my Galaxy wearable for like six months. Um, because I accidentally broke the charger. Oh. And then I was calling, you know, I went called the T-Mobile store and I was like, yo, can I get a new charger? And they was like, um, we don't sell the charger separately. And I was like, well, that's just trash. So I was like, well, fine then. And so what I ended up doing was I went online to Amazon and I found a multi-charger station that charges my phone, my earbuds, and my watch. And it charges all the things. So I can even put my Apple iPods on there for my um my iPad, which I use for other stuff. So I'm really excited. So I got my wearable on. I haven't had it on in a while. In fact, the last text message on here was showing from like November of last year. So that shows you how long it's been since I've had this, but it still works, it's still fabulous. So I get to track my health. So I'm super excited. Anyway, before you, you know, pull me off the stage like I'm at the Apollo. Let's go find that giant cane and go snatch you off. Okay, you know, you know, you know the the Kiki or whatever her name was. She's not with us anymore. So rest in peace, Kiki. But yeah, so you you I don't need you to replace her pulling me off with the cane. So anyway, today is a special day because we have been talking about our show bestie for many episodes now.

Speaker 2

So many.

Speaker 1

And she's finally here on the show.

Meet Our Show Bestie, Jazz

Speaker 1

So let's introduce you to our other squirrel, our show bestie, Jazz. Hey Jazz. Hello.

Speaker 2

Hello, everybody. Hello, friends. Hey squirrel. Hey. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just here. What's up? I never know what I'm saying, and I do this more times. So that's so that's amazing. I don't know.

Speaker 1

I'm here. So in honor of having our show Bestie here, we all have something to drink because the first thing she said when we said, Can you record? She was like, Yeah, can I have something to drink? And we were like, Really? Yes. So a little ASCII.

Speaker 2

I just I just wanted to know if I could have my wine. I mean, you know, it's the evening. I need my wine. Well, I don't need, I like my wine in the evening. So she needed it.

Speaker 1

Figure why not. And Lex is laughing so hard because she knows this show is already off the rails. It was off the rails before we started recording. It's gonna be off the rails throughout and after we're done. But little um ASMR, I'm drinking Celsius Tropical Vibe.

Speaker 3

No, not the bubbles.

Speaker 2

Oh my god.

unknown

I don't know.

Speaker 2

Are you not gonna be awake for like an eternity if you're drinking the Celsius? No.

Speaker 1

Why are you talking about me? How long it takes me to drink a drink?

Speaker 2

No, I said, are you not gonna be awake for an eternity? No, I'm fine. I don't know what Celsius is.

Speaker 1

Is this one of them energy drinks?

Speaker 2

Girl, you know she got ADHD. That don't work like that for them. How can ADHD but that's not how that goes?

Speaker 1

I didn't even know that. I didn't know that this was an my mom bought this. She one day she was um she was like, I'm so proud of you for doing something I did. So she's like, I grabbed you a little, um, she thought it was like a white claw or something. And she's like, I grabbed a little drink for you. I didn't know this was an energy drink.

Speaker 2

If you needed any other confirmation that you have any energy, the fact that you just be taking down energy drinks and not even this ain't even alcohol, y'all.

Speaker 1

No, oh man. I'm so happy I asked that question. No, I have to be careful because you know, y'all know this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2

Wait, about a caffeine you're probably not supposed to have, and then you know, you had it with your medicine, but you didn't take that today, so maybe this will help.

Speaker 1

Um, yeah, I didn't have it today.

Speaker 2

Uh clearly it ain't caused no problems before, so you know, have fun, prank. Go off.

Speaker 1

Go off. I did, but I've never drank it before, so I didn't know. It tastes good. Okay, this is your first time.

Speaker 2

Okay. I thought maybe you had just been taking them down.

Speaker 1

No, no, no, no. She only bought me one, and I just I just never drank it. So I was like, oh, what's tonight I'm drinking? Because I was thinking it was, I didn't know what she bought. I just thought it was alcohol. And when I looked at it, I was like, oh, and it's tropical vine. Looks like it ought to taste good. It says sparkling star fruit pineapple edition. I did not read that it says essential energy, accelerates metabolism, and burns body fat. But you know, I guess it works since I met with my nutritionist yesterday. So anyway, the AET is taking off. Anyway, so Jasmine, what are you drinking now that we know that I'm drinking an energy drink that's may or may not keep me awake all night?

Speaker 2

I am having a nice glass of a red zinc and ale. Um, it's just, you know, a regular person drink.

Speaker 1

Cool. Just a little glass of wine, that's all.

Speaker 2

And just so your listeners know, um, I've had a few sips. I'm not like I just giggle this much at baseline. So no, she really do just be giggling. It's crazy. I I haven't even had enough to have a buzz. I just am this giggly already at baseline. So here we go. She is that giggly on water. It is something.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. But let me tell you, she's the best at making drinks. If you want a concoction, you just go jazz go make me something. What do you want it to taste like? Sweet, sour, and spicy in the middle. She'd be like, I got you. And she'll come back with the best drink.

Speaker 2

So now I don't suggest you try to get in the car afterwards, but yes, no, not at all. Not at all.

Speaker 1

Not at all. Probably not.

Speaker 2

I mean, if you tell me you want a drink, I'm gonna make you taste it.

Speaker 1

I have some you can make you want something to drink, I'm gonna make you taste it.

Speaker 2

This ain't a restaurant. Welcome to our world. I'm never gonna invite me back. I'm never gonna get invited back. You gotta come back all the time now.

Speaker 1

Well, I mean, it's a good thing that I'm kind of somewhat semi-in charge of the guests. So Lex organizes the emails and everything, and then she's like, You decide he was gonna be on the show, which is kind of scary, but it's all good. So, Lex, what what do you have in that big 32 ounce? Why are you laughing? What do you have in that big 32-ounce?

Speaker 2

No sense. I have Minute Made Fruit Punch mixed with a jack and Coke can is great.

Speaker 1

So I'm the only sober one here today. Got it.

Speaker 2

And that was an accident. Hello for you.

Speaker 1

It so was. I looked over, I was out of jack, and then I was like, that bottle of I think it was whiskey that you had that you bought that one time that was over here, that was so good. And I was like, oh, I don't have any of that. And I was like, I don't really want any wine. I'm looking over, I was like, I guess I could go for some soju. And I was like, oh, mom bought me that drink upstairs. I'll drink that. Yeah. So I'll be washing it all down with some good old healthy water so my heart doesn't explode out of my chest.

Speaker 2

Anyway, you might be able to focus better than you thought.

Speaker 1

So I'm done. I'm sorry. Oh my god, this show is gonna be absolutely hissy. You might have to become a permanent squirrel on the show. I'm just thinking. I don't know. It's a mess. Um I

Jazz’s Nursing Background and Brain Expertise

Speaker 1

don't know how Lex is gonna get through this. Um so just so you know, Jazzy is um like she's like our go-to nurse. She's a nurse. She what's your your certificate in in neural something, something, science, something? Um wow, yeah.

Speaker 2

So I am a certified pediatric nurse and I am a certified neuroscience nurse.

Speaker 1

Ooh, so that means brain. She she understand the brain a little bit, y'all. Just a little bit. So I go to her with my my questions about, you know, the medication. I was gonna say the drugs, but the medication that I take. So she she helps me and she helps me to better understand how they work and how they benefit me, um, which is really helpful. So she's the she generally is the calm one somewhat in the group.

Speaker 2

Outwardly calm. Only when it comes to other people.

Speaker 1

Yes. Yes. So um, so they know that I have ADHD, PDA, RSD, all the letters. Um, they know that Lex is self-diagnosed, autistic. And what about yourself, ma'am?

ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, Anxiety, and Testing

Speaker 2

Um, you guys are ready. Absolutely. Um, so I um am your poster child for ADHD and comorbidities. I have um, I started all this by finding out that I have bipolar disorder type two. Um I have generalized anxiety disorder. Um what else do I got? Uh and then and then there's then there's the then there's the ADHD, um, which I am in the process of finalizing some um like testing for that one. Right now we've just been through like DSM 5 criteria with my therapist, and like you, shy, um, I said yes to probably entirely too many of those questions. So my therapist was like, Well, darn, you probably have it. So and she's cleaned that up because we don't cuss on this podcast, but ooh, our craft. So uh, so finally, um it is a very long waiting list, by the way, to get tested for all this stuff. So I um have an appointment finally in October to start the process to finalize all of that and see if we uh dig up something else. Um those are just my mental health comorbidities. Okay. Did you say October? Yes, ma'am. It is currently May. I just need people to understand how much time that is. That's five months from um so fun fact, I made this appointment in April.

Speaker 3

Wow, I'm gonna do that.

Speaker 2

So last month, like middle of last. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh my god, I made this appointment the very last week of March.

Speaker 3

Wow.

Speaker 2

And it got pushed out all the way to October. And that was the first available date.

Speaker 1

Okay, so help me to understand because I'm a little bit lost here. So you made this appointment at the end of March. Yes. And that was just to go in and start the testing process.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

And then come October, it's finalized.

Speaker 2

Oh, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. So sorry, sorry. So I started working with a new therapist, um, just because I need a therapist for to function. Um, so I started working with a new therapist, and my first appointment was at the end of March. Um, and I started working with a therapist that was a part of like a um like uh health services group, kind of like, you know, like like like Well Star. Oh, okay, whatever those. Okay, so anyway, uh, but for mental health. So like they have providers in their like little provider network that do the testing for ADHD. So she put in a referral for me through uh their offices. And so then when they called me to make the appointment, the first appointment to start the ADHD testing was in October. So my initial appointment will be early October, and that's just a virtual appointment for them to be like, hey, so you think you have ADHD. So and then after that, I have to go in person for two to three hours of testing.

Speaker

Yes, I do know.

Speaker 2

And then there's an appointment after that that is the actual follow-up to tell you what they found.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because okay, because my psychiatrist was like, you can come in any day of the week and get tested if you want to go through the actual formal testing, and it'll take you about two to three hours. And then she told me how much it was gonna cost. And I was like, nah, I trust my therapist. She said she knew me a year and said, That's what you got, your classic textbook. Boom, I got it. Yeah, I was like, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And I'm sure I could have gotten in sooner if I probably went through our shared psychiatrist. But um, I just decided to keep everything in the same uh like bucket with this new therapist because my whole reason for starting with her was to like create a little bit more continuity with like who I was working with. Um like I wanted her to be able to work with me through more things than um what my last therapist worked through, so worked with me through, who she was like very helpful for me at the time. But um, so I you know was like, I can wait. I've been living with it this long. We already know that this is what it is. So there was the general anxiety kicked in and was like, what if you're not what if they say you don't have it? And I was like, Well, they I don't think that it'll not say that. So I don't think not having ADHD is

Finding the Right Therapist

Speaker 2

an option.

Speaker 1

So there's two things that she said that I thought was really important. Um, one is that you worked with a therapist and that served your purpose for what you needed then, and then when you went back, you decided to seek out therapy with someone else to serve your purpose for now and what you wanted to do. And so I just want our listeners to know how important that is, is that you don't always have to continue with the same therapist you started with because uh, first of all, it may not be a right fit. So you may have to go and seek out a couple of therapists to find the right fit. Number two, you might end up working with somebody, and that is exactly what you need for one set of issues at one point. But then three, you need to switch and go to somebody else who might specialize in different issues or might be able to bring it all together for you. So I think that's really important. I wanted to just point that out. Uh and then the other thing is about continuity of care. So, what Jazzy was saying is by sticking with one therapist and just going through this process, even though it's a rather lengthy process, it's all going to stay in one place. And sometimes that's a good thing, you know, it's just like any other healthcare. Sometimes it's good to stay within one network or one system because everybody's connected and has your information. And there's other times when you go, no, I need a specialist in, and you might step outside of that to go see that particular specialist that's not specifically tied to your network. And again, that's another thing that's really important is um when you're looking at seeking out care, are you looking to get you know continuity of care, uh, which we do recommend, um, or are you looking to bring together the best team at the time that's gonna service you, whether that's all in one place or in different places? Now, I do have to put out there, which is you know, uh funny, is that when I finally sought um therapy, I went to Dr. A, which all of you know, Alexis and I share. And then when I had to get medication to manage my anxiety, I went to Jazz's psychiatrist.

Speaker 2

We got a Venn diagram of medicine happening, right?

Speaker 1

So we're sharing doctors, but that's the other thing, right? If you have friends that um have really good doctors, if they're in your network and you can use them, use them, you know. Um, one, there's confidentiality. So even when I would go to Dr. A and I was like, Hey, so I saw our mutual friend that you declined to say that you do or do not know. And she just told me to tell you hi. And she was like, Oh, well, I don't know who you're talking about, but you can always tell them I said hi.

Speaker 2

You know, it's wild as I've never told you to tell her hi. That's the craziest thing of this whole story.

Speaker 1

I'm just I use that as an example. Like, I would always say I saw you, or something like that, or we just hung out, or we went on vacation, kind of thing. I've never told her that you told me to tell her hi. But she would that's how she would play it off. It was like, oh, well, she sounds really nice, you know, or something like that. Um so there's confidentiality there. But going on, Jazzy, so you said, okay, you've got this set up and your continuity of care. Now you were talking about some of your comorbidity.

Speaker 2

So, first

Healthcare Self-Advocacy and Continuity of Care

Speaker 2

of all, yeah, before sorry, sorry, can I um interject a thought while you were on that? I was just wanting to like um echo some of your thoughts about that of what you were just saying, is like I think just encouraging like your listeners too, like um coming from working in the healthcare field for so long, um, one of the biggest ways that you can advocate for yourself is to maintain continuity of care. Um, so if there's any way that you can make that easier for yourself, do it. Like, if you can keep if you find like a group of providers that you trust, stick with it. If you don't be afraid to ask for your healthcare records, like those belong to you. Um, even if you like some some healthcare providers charge a fee for you to get them, it sucks. Our healthcare system is not fair. I know that that sucks, but if you have the means to pay for that, do. If not, talk to them. I'm sure that they can figure something out, but you have a right to have those records. Um, if you have to see a provider that's that's not directly related to, you know, whoever it just make sure that your records follow you. Um, you can always ask your new provider to request your medical records from your other office. That's most often free. You just sign a paper, they'll get it. Don't be afraid to get on the phone and call and say, Hey, did y'all send this before your next appointment with the new provider? That is like the easiest way to make sure that you're getting the care that you need. Um, for me, um, just because of who I am as a person, the easiest way to do that is to make sure that all my all my healthcare providers are within a system to where they can click open the um medical record and just see my stuff. And so then that's the easiest thing for me. And all I have to do is check like the online version that I get to see and make sure that my stuff is updated and that it's refra reflecting accurately. But please advocate for yourself. That's like my biggest thing. That was always my biggest thing when I worked at the bedside is to like advocate, advocate, advocate for patients and help them advocate for themselves. I completely agree. And then the other thing that I was gonna say is like if you don't mind me sharing like a little blurb about my experience with going through a couple when you mentioned finding the right therapist, like I also literally had to do that. It was a mess um when I finally accepted the fact that I needed to go to therapy because that was a whole process.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

Um, and I'm sure we'll talk about it later, but like I didn't really start understanding the symptoms and things that I was experiencing until a little bit later um in life, which is just kind of like the nature of like my mental um that my mental health diagnoses. Um, so it took a little longer for me to figure out that I needed therapy and to like fully understand what in the world was going on just because of the presentation, is a little bit harder to put a finger on, especially if you're not going to like an actual psychiatrist, which I didn't think I needed. Um, so started with one therapist for several reasons that was definitely not a good fit. Turns out she just ended up triggering me. Um just triggering like near how that happened yeah. So like I thought it was gonna be great, but then it just triggered feelings of like not being able to like fully express myself. Um, and then I ended up with the therapist that I worked with for probably about two years, I would say. Um, and at the point that I was at when I landed with that therapist, I definitely think she served the purpose that I needed her to serve, right? So I had a lot of situational stressors going on. Um it was definitely a point where like when you sometimes when you start therapy, like you are probably likely not in a place to dive into trauma. So like I definitely was not in that place. I was mostly trying to like get out of bed, stay alive, and keep a job. Yeah. Um, so um, she definitely helped me to make it to that point. I the one thing I did get from I managed before I even started with the first therapist that didn't work, I did manage to get myself on some anxiety medication because I was like, I'm gonna need to medicate myself before I even start therapy. So I did manage that.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 2

Failed a therapist. Well, I ghosted that first therapist. Um, I just never went back. I just ghosted her after like five sessions. I was like, I will never call you again. Here's your money. Um, so then the second one, um, she actually was the one who helped me realize that I needed to go see a psychiatrist, which within a fur the first few minutes of that appointment, she was like, Oh, this is what you have. And I was like, No. And she was like, Yeah. Um, and um, I got some good tools to work through a lot of the situational stressors that I keep that happen just throughout my life on a daily basis. And so now I'm at a place where like I'm ready to dig a little bit, and that just wasn't the relationship and the type of therapist that I had for those couple years, and so it took about a year break and realized that that probably wasn't sustainable. Um back that's good, and with a new therapist that seems to be going well. I do like her, and each time I kind of like have picked a different profile of person to kind of fit where I'm at now. So right now I've got a delightful um black lady that's about my age, and it's kind of nice. I don't have to code switch ethnically or generationally, which like generational code switching we don't really talk about, but is a thing. It is. Um it's kind of nice to be able to do that, and like um she doesn't do that either, so it's just nice to feel comfortable, she's not pulling punches, it's good.

Speaker 1

Can you tell our audience how old you are, by the way? Just for reference.

Speaker 2

Yes, I am about to be 36 this summer, so currently 35, but I'll be 36 in July.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I thought I was gonna say 34, so that must be Lex.

Speaker 2

No, no, I'm 33. I'll be 34 a whole year later. Like I just turned 33.

Speaker 1

Okay, well, I just turned 52 last week, so yeah.

Speaker 2

Everybody so so far this year seems to be the age that everybody's like, oh my god, you're so much older than I thought you were. And I'm like, I know. No, I really did not thought that.

Speaker 1

I really thought you're about to be like 34. Um pushing 40, man.

Speaker 3

Pushing 40. A little bit. You round up, go to 40.

Speaker 2

You round up, you're round down. We get that five.

Speaker 1

I'm 25 plus shipping, handling, taxes, and fees. And now customs pricing. But anyway, um your age got tariffs. Tariffs, my age got tariffs on it.

Speaker 2

Anyway, that was the end of my little rant. I just wanted to mention that.

Speaker 1

Here, here's the thing that I think um I also want to point out that you mentioned before we move on to the next thing is you talked about this time around, you looked for a therapist, like we said, that fit your needs, but you also were very specific. And so um I want people to know that that's okay to say, you know what, I do want somebody that is a woman of color. I want somebody that is of a certain age that can relate to me in this way, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's okay to look for that. Sometimes we'll be able to do that.

Speaker 2

It's also okay to not look for that. The therapist that I was working with before that was a middle-aged white lady who I had nothing in common with. Yeah, like there are turns out in that time, in that moment, I needed that because I needed nothing that was gonna trigger anything.

Speaker 1

Understood.

Speaker 2

I needed to like not, like, I just needed to be able to like disassociate from any family trauma that was gonna trigger anything.

Speaker 1

See, when I went in to see Dr. A, like I straight up told her she she's uh young to me, a young white woman who is in her 30s, I guess, like early 30s, I would say. Um, and I was like, you know what? I've said this before in the show. I was like, I don't even care if I like you or not. I gotta make this work because right now I need therapy. So this is what it's all about. And we made it work. Now, if I go back again, I which I probably will at some point, I've already decided the therapist that I would like to have if I go back. So you mentioned comorbidities. So can you explain to us what comorbidities means and then what you have that lines up with that so we can better understand, you know, the depth of what our neurodivergence can be like.

What Comorbidities Mean

Speaker 2

Yeah. Um, so uh tell me too if I get too like technical brain. No, no, no. No, no, no. I know. I'm trying. Um I'm going into like my nurse nurse educator brain. So like if I if I get we are not nurses, yes. So no. No, I know. I'm going into my teachy brain. So anyway, a comorbidity is anything that goes along with a primary diagnosis. Um, sometimes it can either make it worse. Um, it doesn't necessarily have to. It just means that it likes to be buddies with it. Like they like to go together.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 2

Um, so uh for like there's a ton of research that says that ADHD and autism, they like friends. So sometimes ADHD and autism like to hang out and they're like BFFs and buddies, and then you have like AU. I always get the acronym.

Speaker 1

AUDHD. I know I always say run the.

Speaker 2

There you go. Um, so you always get, so then you have that one, right?

Speaker

Yes.

Speaker 2

Um there's a lot of um research that shows indicates that ADHD and bipolar in one of its forms, whether it's bipolar type one, type two, and then I think there's another one. It's like called mixed something bipolar disorder. I can't remember. I should have looked it up, my bad. Um but uh ADHD typically likes to hang out with bipolar in one of its forms. Um and they're not really sure why. Um it has they see that sometimes there's like similar crossovers in how it like affects the brain, like where which parts of the brain's neurochemicals and stuff that it affects, but not really sure. Um ADHD and autism love to hang out with anxiety and depression. Um and um so that's an example of comorbidities. Yes, anxiety and depression is a is a huge one. They really like to hang out. I remember talking to my doctor about needing medication and everything, and I mentioned that I have a history of depression, and she was like, Well, you know, they kind of like to tangle together, they kind of like to they like to be friends and hang out. So most of the time, if you got anxiety, you probably got depression, and vice versa, they really, really go together like a sandwich. Yeah, yeah. And comorbidities, like there's you can have one thing and not the other, but um, in mental health, a lot of times, um, if you have one, you're probably gonna have a friend. It's probably gonna bring a friend. Sometimes you don't know what friend, but it's probably gonna bring a friend. Um so uh it's important to to be open to the fact that like not not to be too um uh label averse. Um, and by that I mean afraid of getting labeled or diagnoses for things because until you really get a full picture, you can't be treated appropriately.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

Um, and that is something that I had to learn. So I'm saying that from a point of like knowing what that feels like and then having to figure how to not be that

PDA, RSD, Dyscalculia, and More Letters

Speaker 2

Yeah, I feel that way too.

Speaker 1

Like I after So after getting diagnosed, I was like, God, I'm picking up something else. And then after a while, I was like, and then she was like, Yeah, you're probably probably have um she goes, No, you have PDA. And I was like, Huh? I'm picking up more letters, you know. And um uh I don't even remember what it stands for now. Something demand avoidance. Pathological demand avoidance? Pathological demands. You don't remember your own thing?

Speaker 2

That's the ADHD. I'll tell you it's a functional memory not come into play.

Speaker 1

There you go. And both of y'all are drinking at the same time. That's funny. Um, so yeah, I so put um pathological demand avoidance. And I was like, okay, can you tell me everything I have? Just just give me all the letters, tell me everything that I have so I can deal with it. And she was like, Yeah, you know, you might be able to figure some of the others out. So then I went to, I was like, Oh, I got RSD too, so rejection sensitivity disorder. I realized I have dyscalcalia because I always have problems with math. And I was like, Okay, so I'm just going, I'm just going down the list. So my mom on days when I'm not exactly, you know, when I'm not functioning quite as well, she was like, Oh, you done busted out all the elemental peas. That's what she calls it. She's like, You're alphabeting today. And I'm like, um, yeah, I guess I am. But I'm like, be careful with what you say. I guess some folks are not gonna take that the way it's intended, but yeah, I'm alphabetting today. Um, so with that said, because let me ask you this before I ask you the next question. So I'm gonna ask you a two-parter.

Speaker 2

First part is are you're gonna have to ask me before you ask it one one one part at a time.

Speaker 1

I don't do well with okay remembering parts of questions. Thank you. Thank you for telling me that.

Speaker 2

That's part of the narrative.

Speaker 1

Right. I'll try to remember the second question. No, the first question. Look at Lexa's face. She's like, oh boy, here we go. So the first question was actually um there's been some research, and I just wanted to get your quick opinion on this that there's a link between autoimmune illnesses as well with um neurodivergence.

Neurodivergence, Chronic Pain, and Autoimmune Questions

Speaker 1

My rheumatologist told me that my rheumatoid arthritis, my fibromyalgia all could have been a result of being buddies and latching on to my neurodivergence. What are some of your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2

Oh, I have so many. Um, so I also um recently got accurately diagnosed with fibromyalgia. So that was a whole nother story for another day and probably another podcast. But um so this is probably the wrong podcast for that story. But um the so I was uh earlier this year, end of last end of no early this year, um diagnosed with fibromyalgia. We knew something was up, finally got that sorted. Um, I also have chronic migraines, um, which there are legit studies. Um when I Google stuff, I do kind of look for like the studies that come out of universities and things. So when I am like doing research and stuff, I'm looking at like studies that I probably would have used to write a paper in college. Um, so there are links with um ADHD, um bipolar, and fibromyalgia, as well as chronic migraines. I haven't looked at the correlation with fibromyalgia and chronic migraines. I know fibromyalgia and headaches um is not uncommon, but because fibromyalgia is like a pain, your your your brain is just firing off pain signals for no reason. I mean, headaches would make sense, but um, chronic migraines specifically, which I've had since I was like in my late teens, um has a very strong correlation with uh bipolar disorder and um ADHD. So as a person who has both, um it's it's not surprising then, and because when I saw um a rheumatologist who you refer to Meshi, um she uh I actually saw the, yeah, yeah. I actually saw the PA, who was also really good. But um, excuse me, sorry, hold on. Okay, so um the rheumatologist actually picked out my bipolar as the correlating factor to the fibrone. So um I think my educated guess and theory is that there is something in the way that all of those little synapses fire off and all your little brain chemicals work together that doesn't work together, that precipitates all these things. Um I don't think science has bothered to dig into those enough to figure it out. Yeah, um, the other half of that question that I have not researched is I'd be interested to see the um uh percentage of like women who are diagnosed. What is what is the correlation in diagnoses of fibromyalgia in women over men? I do know that chronic migraines are predominantly um a thing that happened in women and not just diagnosed in women, it just mostly does just happen in women. Just less often occurs in men, and that doesn't, and and that's one of the few things that actually appropriately gets diagnosed. Unfortunately, just happens more in women. So I would be curious to see uh what that percentage looks like in fibromyalgia. And then the conspiracy theorists in me is like, I wonder like if this goes understudied and underrecognized because historically medicine has not really paid attention and has dismissed women's pain for so long that you're missing opportunities to figure out how these correlate. Man, let me tell you right now, the therapist that I just worked with like this week mentioned that there's also a link with like hypermobility and like just being a flexible person, which I've always kind of been, except for getting older and it hurting to like get off the ground. Um, but like that also correlates to fibromyalgia some way. They don't really know why, they just know that people that often have hypermobile joints correlate to fibromyalgia. It also correlates to ADHD and autism. Do we know why? We absolutely have no freaking idea. So I would just be the brain is a crazy thing, which is why I spent my career taking care of people with those things. Um is just fascinating, and I do think that they're related.

unknown

Sorry.

Women’s Pain and Medical Dismissal

Speaker 2

So let's tell you right now, I have looked some of this stuff up. You ain't even you ain't gotta worry about the percentages, friend. Oh, private algae is more highly diagnosed in women. And so the conspiracy that you mentioned, we already know it's not a conspiracy, it's actual numbers. It's actual numbers that they don't they don't look up stuff for me. Okay, great. We don't know, we don't know why that works like that. Why not? Because it affects women mostly. And what are what are most medical studies based off? White dudes. Yeah. No, we not white dudes, so they're not studying us. Yeah, and then includes and women of all colors. Women of all colors are not white dudes, so they're not getting their things studied. Really? And that's what I was about to say is like pain is one of those things that goes ignored in women across the board. It is one of those weird phenomenons that definitely gets like overlooked in women of color more. However, you hit there's like a uh a little niche of like white women uh like in in like either their teen years and then you fast forward to like middle age when they're like becoming like empty nesters and things like that, and they get dismissed so much. So just women's pain in general is a problem. So, anyway, that's that's my rant on that

Jazz’s Comorbidity Picture

Speaker 2

question.

Speaker 1

Okay. So my next question in harmony with that, which you've kind of alluded to, and then Lex, you can ask whatever you want to ask. Um, was what are the comorbidities that you have now that we understand some of the various ones? And I think you've mentioned them, but just to help us to make a full picture of who you are as a neurodivergent woman of color.

Bipolar Disorder Type 2 Explained

Speaker 2

Okay, so to condense them all together, I have my neurodivergence is ADHD. I have bipolar disorder type two, I have generalized anxiety disorder, I have fibromyalgia, and I have chronic migraines. I will also say that um I don't typically include depression as a disorder in that because I feel like that's wrapped up in the bipolar type two. Um bipolar disorder type two, um, I didn't talk about a ton, but um it is a little bit different than bipolar disorder type one in that you tend to just be more depressed. Your manic episodes are not as high. Um any type of bipolar disorder means that you um, if you think about like the poles of the earth, there's like a top and a bottom, right? So that's kind of where it gets its name, is um that you have highs and lows and you swing between those two. You really don't hit a middle that doesn't really exist for you unless you're medicated to achieve that. So um with bipolar disorder type one, that's what most people think of. You have extreme highs and extreme lows. The manic episodes are typically where you see people portrayed on TV as like acting out, doing insane things. They're not themselves, they're like demonstrating these crazy behaviors or stealing stuff or doing insane things that you're like, oh sweet baby Jesus, what in the world? Um for um for bipolar type two. Um the mania is not as likely to hit that level. Like for me, I can speak for myself and for like my mom, who has the same thing. Because fun fact, mental health follows a trajectory of your mother. So look at your mom and her family history. That's probably what yours is gonna look like too. So anyway. So the um, so I'm just saying it's true, it's science.

Speaker 1

You know, no, it goes back to making music that every time you know you're like watching TV and they're doing episodes and TV shows, and they're they're like, it's your mother's fault, and it's like blame your mom. Well, you can legit.

What Mania Can Look Like

Speaker 2

I mean, it is like truly. So, like my mom has the same type of bipolar. Um, so she uh for both of us, like our mania tends to look like um uh we like the shot. We will buy everything, we will like ruin our financial lives. Um we well, I get really amazing ideas, like brilliant. And and they are actually very good ideas. Like, this is not just me in the moment. They are actually like really amazing ideas. Um, it's like during my manic episodes, my ADHD just like shuts down. Like it's like the manic, the mania just goes, shh, be quiet. You just sit down and you be quiet and you just sit there and mind your business. That's what my mania does to my ADHD. So all of a sudden, like I can focus, like it's ain't it's nobody's business. Like, if there's projects that I have like been starting and stopping, I will get all of them done in one day. I also might change my hair color. Um, I will also clean the House now. I have 48 hours of that type of energy. I also typically feel like I know I that I've reached peak mania when suddenly everything's amazing. Like the you know, like in in movies and TV shows when like the main characters is having a the a great day and they're like, I'm walking on sunshine. Like those those montages, well, that's me. That's like me peak mania.

Speaker 1

Like when I'm sparkles, unicorns.

Speaker 2

Like, like, I'm not kidding. Like, literally, I feel like it feels like, from my perspective, in my brain, like legit, the sun looks brighter. Like everything looks incredible. Sometimes she'll say out loud, the sun is so bright today, and look at the sky. It's so blue. And I'll look up and I'll go, uh oh. This guy looks like so. It's a it's a regular day. It's a regular day. But like in to me, it truly looks like the best day I've ever seen.

Speaker 1

Wow.

ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, and Misdiagnosis

Speaker 1

Um, I've never heard you describe what your bipolar was like for you in like that sense. So this is fascinating to me because honestly, that's what drove part of what drove me to therapy was I thought I said I'm either bipolar because I'm feeling these highs and lows, or um, there's something else going on. And it was a mutual friend of ours, Hannah, that said, um, you might not be bipolar, you just might have ADHD and not even know it.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and they, and because of those swings, um, and because ADHD, you can have shifts in focus so much, um, they get misdiagnosed as each other a lot, especially in women. Um, and people tend to either diagnose one and not the other. It's very rare. I was very fortunate that I've been able to get both diagnosed appropriately. And we can clearly know that it's both of them together. Um anyway, so that's like what my mania looks like. And then the the depress, the, but the depressed my mania will typically last for like a few days. And then I swing into a depressive episode, and that can last for months.

Speaker 3

Got it.

Speaker 2

Um, and that's a little bit different than type one bipolar. Um, so the highs are not as high. Not gonna lie, mania is pretty great. Sometimes I wish I could have like like give me 12 hours of a manic episode, and I could really knock some stuff out. Um Wow. If I could like bargain for that and like not have a depressive spell after that, I would I would do it. Like if you could say, give me a hundred bucks and I'll give you 24 hour 24 hours of mania, no depression, and I'd be like, here's my money.

unknown

Wow.

Speaker 2

Here's my money.

Speaker 1

So you know, you know what that sounds like? Like when I've heard people who have had um, when I've watched different documentaries and things, and I've seen people that have had addictions to certain types of medications, and they're like, when they say that's that's the best high I ever had, it was because it made them feel that level of euphoria in a drug.

Speaker 2

But if it was no, but it's different then because you're not really altered, feeling of like a everything's great, but it's like I get to enjoy it without being altered.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Um in my brain, I'm not altered, I'm probably actually altered. But

Handwriting, Mood Shifts, and Real-Life Signs

Speaker 2

you know what?

Speaker 1

Lex also said something um a while ago, um, this is probably a couple years ago. I first started talking to you guys and saying, okay, I need to talk to you about your journey a little bit because I'm trying to figure out what's going on with me. And Lex said, We looked at Jazz's handwriting from when she's not in mania to when she is with the different Lex, do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 2

I just okay. You talk about it. I'm gonna see if I can find it. I'm gonna, I might still have it. Because I remember Jazz Walking Room was like, look at this. I because Jazz keeps a lot of notes. She's a notebook lady, okay? She's always writing something down somewhere, especially for her work stuff. And I maybe she had like an idea notebook or something, and she showed me something she had written when she was in like a place of stasis, right? Just a like a middle ground regular state. And then she flipped over to what she wrote when she was experiencing mania. And I said, Hey yo, that's a different person. Like the letters, they they were like going a different direction. It seems like hectic and sporadic the way it was written. It was very, it was very weird. And I was like, I don't, that's not the same as these little loops and stuff you be doing when you feel irregular. It was very, very interesting. And why ja while Jazz is looking to see if she can find the notes, something also interesting. So when Jazz has been in these states of mania, for listeners who may have forgotten, Jazz is my best friend and also my roommate. Like I live in her house, so I've seen this thing. So when she said she can uh do all these things and change your hair color and clean the house, she did this in a day. So there was one day I was working from home and Jazz was doing so many things. She hung shelves on the wall, she was moving stuff from here and there and there and here, and I was like, okay, man, I was like, she ain't tired because I'm tired, and I just been working on from the couch for the day, and I'm tired of just looking at this computer. So I'm confused. The next day I go to work, I come home from work, all the blinds are open, I come in the door, it smells like pine salt. She mopped the hole downstairs. Music is playing. She was like, Hey, how you doing? I think I might have been cooking too.

Speaker 3

Yes, and was this the same time that you did go blonde with your hair?

Speaker 2

I did. And I also put entirely too much hair in the hair, so you know. So what Jessie had to get her hair done, and she was gonna, she had an appointment to go get her hair braided. I come home and I see her car is there, and I'm like, I thought she had a hair appointment. I thought she was gonna be gone at this time. I come in, I go upstairs, she's in her bathroom. Anybody who do their hair at home, black girls especially, no, you prop up that iPad or prop up that computer in the sink so you can watch something while you braid your hair. And she's braiding her hair down in like this pattern and stuff to do her own crochets. Jazz does not know how to corn roll. So she has now found a different way to circumvent that to help your hair to lay down so she could put in her own crochet braids. And that's cool or whatever, except I have no idea where this idea came from. Wow. Okay. The hair that she has to put in is blonde.

Speaker 3

I had never seen jazz with hair color at all.

Speaker 1

I've never seen jazz with hair color at all, I don't think.

Speaker 2

Until she started putting them blonde twists in. When she started doing the crochet and that every time Jazz is crochet hair, now she's blonde. It's a thing that's become a thing. She's like, if I got crocheted.

Speaker 1

This is wild. I don't know if I've ever paid attention to that.

Speaker 2

Jazz. Shy, we've had a whole conversation about this. See, there she goes again. So Steve, remember, Shy? Okay, so you saw me the next day after I did it. Um, you saw me the morning after I had done my hair. Um, and you were like, Oh, it's so cute. And you were like, boing, boing, and you like loved it.

Speaker 1

I probably did because I love when you guys do all your different styles. So you can't see us, but I just want you to get this image. So here I am, nearly bald with a short haircut. Jazz is in between me and Lex, and she's got like a couple inches of hair on her head, like a short fro. I got a but I got a teeny weenie afro at TWA. So she's like the middle, right? So I'm the small, she's the medium, and then you have Lex with the huge puff, like super curls. I love her hair. So you have the small, medium, large. So if you were to see the three of us in a row, you would see like hair growth right now. Like this is where you started, and then after using this product, this is where you ended up. I've been sitting here all since we've been recording, just looking at that. Like, this is what it looks like. So I finally got to get it out. But so I find this interesting because I did um while you guys were talking, I looked up the bipolar disorders. The third one is called cyclophimic disorder.

Speaker

Oh, that's what it is. Yep. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1

And it's a milder form of bipolar disorder. This is according to psychiatry.com. It says it's a milder form of bipolar disorder involving many mood swings with hypomania and depressive symptoms that occur frequently. People with cyclothemia experience emotional ups and downs, but less severe symptoms than bipolar one or two disorder. So this is interesting. I'm actually I and it's so I not that I'm trying to make this about me, but it's so interesting because the more I'm hearing you talk about some of these different things, the more there's some pieces coming together that points me back to I'm wondering if I'm if I'm like the latter of these three. Hey Kenny, I can hear a dog in the back, Jass's dog.

Speaker 2

Sorry, my bad. I'll be back.

Speaker 1

It's okay. It's it's all right. They know we're raw and unfiltered here most of the time. But anyway, I'm gonna

ADHD Hyperfocus, Dopamine, and Mood Swings

Speaker 1

look at it.

Speaker 2

And I do think that there's something to be said that like uh the reason that ADHD and bipolar get misdiagnosed for one for the other sometimes. Well, most often women get misdiagnosed as bipolar when they just have ADHD. And I have like one of my best friends had that actually happen to her. Um, well, several things, but yes. Anywho, so is for that reason when really it could just be, and again, I'm no psychiatrist, but it could just be an episode of like hyperfocus, which does tend to happen. And then as soon as that's done, the dopamine hit that you were getting from that hyperfocus fades, and then all of a sudden, like the full impact of like the fatigue hits and the dopamine's gone. So that down feeling that you get from not having that dopamine hit that you you that ADHD like craves is gone. So you naturally feel a little bit down, yeah. Um so anyway. Oh, so I found the I found the notes. Send text message, but just send it to us.

Speaker 1

But you can send it to us so I can go whack.

Speaker 2

Keep talking and then you'll get the message.

Speaker 1

But anyway, so um, so Lex, what questions did you want to ask? I mean, I know you know a lot about Jazz, but I know.

Speaker 2

And I was not wanting to say too much because I want Jazz to tell her own story. I don't want to try to tell her story for her.

Speaker 3

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2

Um you don't remember things that I'll forget. So there might be important things that I've left out that you should probably think that I should tell people. Okay. So, Jazz, I feel like you've been helpful in ways that I didn't actually think about, but I should have, with explaining some of the science behind different things because duh, you're a nurse for brains. So thank you. That's been that's been super helpful. Yeah. Nah, and then I was like, yeah, I was like, too late. I'm going in as part of what I want to say, so I'm gonna say it. First of all, might as well. We never have a single episode without a tangent, and you know whose fault it don't be.

Closing Part One

Speaker 1

You know what? So, on that note, we're gonna end this episode and we are gonna pick up with part two after this. Bye. Bye. Thanks for hanging out with us today. We'd love to hear from you. If you have any questions or topics you'd like for us to cover in our podcast, please don't hesitate to let us know. You can send us a message on our fan page at Famlist.com forward slash BGBG Squirrel. That's Famlist.com forward slash BGBG Squirrel.

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Lex

Host
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Shai

Host
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Payton

Editor

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