Black Girl, Brown Girl...Squirrel! A Podcast for Neurodivergent Women of Color

S2E6 - ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, and Self-Acceptance: Learning to Be Okay With the Extras

• The Squirrels • Season 2 • Episode 6

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 55:14

Send us Fan Mail

Trigger warning: This episode includes brief mentions of self-harm. Please protect your mental health and check the show notes for resources.

In part two of our conversation with our show bestie Jazz, we continue talking about ADHD, bipolar disorder type 2, depression, medication, therapy, self-advocacy, and learning to be okay with “the extras” that can come with diagnosis.

Jazz shares what mania and depressive episodes can feel like, how medication helped her understand what “level” feels like, and how ADHD impacts her day-to-day life through routines, systems, dopamine hits, dysregulation, and the ADHD tax.

This episode is real, honest, funny, tender, and deeply BGBGS. 🐿️

RESOURCES

Mental Health Resources

Neurodivergent Resources

CONNECT WITH US

Fan Page: Fanlist.com/BGBGSquirrel 

IG: @BGBGSquirrel

Threads: @BGBGSquirrel

Email: BGBGSquirrel@Gmail.com



Trigger Warning and Welcome Back

SPEAKER_01

It's your favorite squirrels, shy and lexed. It's time for another episode of Black Girl, Brown Girl, Squirrel. Trigger warning. This episode has very brief mentions of self-harm. If you are not in a mental space to safely take in this episode, please protect yourself and your mental health by skipping this episode. We have resources located in the show notes that can assist you during this difficult time. We'll see you next week. And we're back for part two. And we still have the show Bestie with us, Miss Jazz. What's up?

Mania, Journaling, and Handwriting Shifts

SPEAKER_01

If you were with us in the last episode, Jazz was talking about bipolar mania. So she texted me and Lex her notes for when she's like um in stasis and then when she goes into what? Into mania.

SPEAKER_02

So what I had so what happened is one time Wild, Jazzy. So I try and like journal when I'm having a big emotion because I have a tendency to like forget exactly what I'm feeling. Um and so I try and remember, write down like whatever verbiage I'm feeling in that moment. So then I can look back on it and take it to therapy with me. Um, so in that moment, I wrote down, so like I realized this this was the time that Lex came home and I was like cooking, cleaning, hanging shelves, the sky was really blue, the sun was bright, I was like blasting, like, I don't know, probably like some K-pop medley, probably the loudest K-pop I could find. It was um so uh Lex was like, so you think you're manic friend? And I was like, probably.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so can I tell you guys I am literally sitting here draw on floor because I'm looking at the writing and it does not look like the same person. There there's like some similarities, but it does the writing is is bigger. It's not sloppy or anything, it's just bigger. It's it seems like it was written maybe a little bit fast. Yeah, it's just the her her so-called normal writing. It's very it's smaller, it's more concise. It's um yeah, this there's definitely a difference between the two.

Moving From Mania to Depression

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so the day that day, that night when I before I went to bed, um I wrote that uh the the the journal entry where I was manic. Um, the very next day I woke up feeling okay. And then like within a couple hours had dipped down into a depressive episode, which is usually how it happens. It happens fast. Like you can, you can Lexa seen it happen, like you can physically watch me do it.

SPEAKER_03

Um it's a crazy feeling. So um is very much impacted by the weather. I watched on a very rainy day, it was everything was fine. We were in the car, we were going somewhere. She was fine. We were leaving this place, the weather changed, the sky got cloudy. I watched my friend suddenly decline into what look like a depressive episode that had been going on for weeks, and I was like, Oh, I haven't and I was like, So, friend, I think I think that maybe you're doing something the opposite of manic. I'm thinking now you're having a little depressive moment. You're like, I don't know, maybe. And I was like, I think for sure, because you were fine two hours ago. Um is there anything I can do to help, or is it just we just need to just know this is happening right now and we keep it moving with something helping with some sun help or some activity help? And you did land on something, but it's as crazy as it feels, only crazy probably isn't even a good word to use in this instance, as surreal as it almost feels to watch when you are in a manic episode, it can be equally disheartening to see you go into the depressive episode because it also has come upon you out of nowhere in the same way you couldn't control when the mania came, you couldn't control where the depression came. But that one you don't get to have fun and turn your hair blonde and blast music and mop the floor. This one you just look like everything is terrible and you could just quit.

Is Bipolar Disorder Scary?

SPEAKER_02

So Jazzy, is it fair? That next entry is like once I had slipped back into the depressive episode. And that next one is what my handwriting looks like when I'm kind of like level. Um, so like with medications, I maintain a state of level, of like where I'm just like, okay, everything's wild because your handwriting looks like it starts off, it's almost like a peak.

SPEAKER_01

It starts off here and then it goes here and then it comes back. Like you could literally see when you were going into the mania, and then when you came out of it. Serious question though. Whether it was before you knew why the all of this was taking place or whatever, or even now, is it scary for you to experience this? Or was it ever scary?

Grief, Nursing School, and Early Symptoms

SPEAKER_02

So I think before I was blissfully ignorant. I just didn't know what was happening. I just thought I'd be a little bit sad. Um, I will say that that was so This was more than a little bit sad, boo.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying it. Yeah, just saying it.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no, it was. I will say that it was uh very it was complicated by um uh grief. Um because uh the onset of bipolar disorder typically is like your late teens to early 20s. Right. Um and uh in my I I can I can probably pinpoint the onset of mine to like being my early 20s. Um not only was I in nursing school, which I don't it's hard, it's not fun. If you talk to any nurse, they I don't think you'll ever meet a nurse that said they had the time of their life in nursing school. It's not a good time, it's a little traumatizing. So, like going through nursing school wasn't a good time. Um, in addition, like my grandmother, who was who my grandparents raised me. So um during that point, she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Um so she was going through chemo and dealing with that my entire last year of nursing school. Um, I became one of her primary caregivers, like the as soon as I graduated for like six months before she passed away. So um the peak of my like, and then complicate that with a bunch of other life stuff. So we don't need to is a whole other episode. Um, I think that it got masked a little bit. So I always had a reason for why I was feeling depressed.

SPEAKER_01

Got it.

SPEAKER_02

And then when I would have, because my mania, I was never doing anything detrimental to myself or others. Um, it was just, oh, I feel really good today. Like I'm having a good day. And I would take those as wins because I was having so many bad days. Um, and that's what bipolar type two really is, is like unmedicated, you're mostly gonna stay depressed. You'll have like a few good days, which is just mania, but you're never gonna hit level.

Diagnosis, Medication, and Finding “Level”

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so that's really what I was doing. Um, and I uh tended to stay functionally depressed um until I was reaching the point of no longer really being functional, which is um thankfully when I was hitting that point, I was already in therapy and in the process of starting to work on getting medication. Um, well, I hadn't quite gotten meds yet, but I was already in the process of starting to look at therapy. Um so once I got a diagnosis, everything just made sense. So what did get scary is on it takes a while for them to like ramp up meds and get you level again. So like starting meds was a weird experience because with bipolar, they can't just put you on an antidepressant because antidepressants are meant to like bump you up. The way it's designed is to like increase your mood and the way it the way it it mess it adjusts your chemicals so it increases your mood, right? But if you do that in a person with bipolar, it sends them manic. Oh and uncontrolled, it can make them psychotic. And because I don't deal because my level of mania is never very high, it could become very like it, it would, it would, it would send me off my like off the deep end faster than it might send someone with like bipolar type one, because I was never used to that level of mania, right? So for me, for like you have to start that one first. So for like five days, I had to take an antidepressant alone. And I felt like somebody had put toothpicks in my eyes for five days. I was like having panic attacks, like to like keep your eyelids open. Yeah, they were like, it felt like my eyeballs were like glued open. Like somebody was like literally holding my eyeballs open. I could barely sleep. I was having panic attacks, just like trying to put my clothes on. Um, and that's just because the medicine was just like waking me up from the depression. But because of the bipolar, it was just sending me like in, as you always say, shy, into the stratosphere. Like it was just like shooting me like way. It just like the it with with the bipolar, it just like way overcorrects you, it like overshoots it. So then you have to also be on a mood stabilizer. Yeah. So I'm on something to bring me up and then to level me out. So then I started the mood stabilizer, and suddenly I was brought back down. And so then for a couple weeks, I was walking around feeling like, all right, everything's fine. I just feel kind of numb and I don't know. And I remember asking Lex, I was like, yo, so like, is this what regular people feel like? Like nothing's exciting, like is you just run around being like this? And she was like, probably.

SPEAKER_01

None of us know what regular people feel like. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_02

I was like, so like I'm not supposed to be like super sad or like super, like I'm just supposed to be like here. Like I'm not supposed to be like one or the other. And she was like, probably. And I was like, Well, that's weird. So it took me a little it took me a while to get used to just being level. Um, so now occasionally um when it's time for my meds to get adjusted, I'm more likely to slip into a depressive spell than I am to get manic. Um

Why Depression Can Feel Scarier Than Mania

SPEAKER_02

the depression, uh, you use the word, is it scary? Um, mania, it doesn't scare me at all. It's delightful. Um the reason that I'm not one of those people that won't take their meds to risk them and to be manic is because like I never stay manic. I'm gonna get depressed so fast that it's not worth it. So I will gladly take my meds and don't you dare try and take them away from me. Um the depression is what's scary. Yes, is because even when I'm on medicine, I never know how low it is gonna get. I never know how long a depressive episode is gonna last. I never know how deep it's gonna get. It could be a very short depressive episode that can go from me feeling like regular like I am today, to like literally wanting to die in three days, like three days from now. Like as soon as I start, I will end up in like a point where I'm like laying in my bed and I'm like, I could go to sleep and never wake up. And then four days later, I'm back to regular. You know, in the meantime, I'm like fighting for that week and a half, or it could be three months of me just being moderately depressed. So the depression is scary because you don't know where it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_01

Right. You

Medication, Support, and Finding What Works

SPEAKER_01

know, you were the one that introduced me to the term carefully crafted cocktail of medications. Now, we we all of us take medications, so I will say that there are people out there that will try, um, they will try different natural remedies and things like that. And I do not discourage that whatsoever. I say find what works for you and suits you. Um, and definitely make sure you're working with um licensed and certified practitioners so that you're getting the best care and the best help for yourself whatsoever. Would love to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

I cannot. I would probably not be either functioning or alive. No, I realize to be honest at this point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but I mean that let's just keep it real. That's just it because all of us, and it's so funny because I not funny, but you know, I was sitting here thinking none of us knows what neurotypical people feel. I have no because we've never and and and the crazy part about I know we're and and don't take offense to that people, but the wild thing about all of that is

Not Knowing What Neurotypical Feels Like

SPEAKER_01

that because we have grown up this way and different things kicked off at different times in our lives, we have never known a neurotypical brain or a neurotypical life.

SPEAKER_02

So and my family is a bunch of people who are neurodivergent, who refuse to accept it, and and or once they have accepted it later in life, we recognize that they just didn't, we just didn't know. So I ran around thinking that like the ADHD that I now live with was regular because my whole family has it. Wow. So I I have no baseline. So were you? I just think that the the stuff I do is regular.

SPEAKER_01

Were you the first to get diagnosed? No. Oh, okay. Okay. It's just it's wild to me because it I just I don't know why, but for some reason when you just said all of that and I just came up and I was like, none of us know what that's like. This because we've been impacted by this all of our lives, and we've all uh either uh tried to fit in or we tried to figure out how to uh live our lives and be authentic to ourselves, which is one thing I love about Lex. Like she was like, Okay, I know that I'm different, so I'm gonna pick up on what it's gonna take for me to interact with all these other people who are weird for me. Uh but I'm I don't feel I'm weird. I just you know, I'm gonna just gonna figure out how to live with these people. Um and then I think about like you and I coming up, we we didn't know. And so it was just, you know, we're going through the motions. You just so happen to be surrounded by all of it. I don't know, honestly, uh if I was surrounded, but I I because I thought I was like everybody else, you develop neurotypical and ableist thinking until you realize you're not like everybody else, and now you have to rid your vocabulary, your thoughts, your everything else of thinking in that way because that's not you and that's not your real connection, you know. So just like our neurodivergence likes to collect other neurodivergents and comorbidities, we also like to collect each other. So we find each other.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, I don't think I have friends that are neurotypical.

SPEAKER_01

I um I don't care what conference I go to, I don't care what networking events, eventually I'm going to find that one person out of a hundred people that's in that room that's also neurodivergent. I it's a guarantee now. And I didn't realize that. And I don't know. It's only since I've been diagnosed that I've kind of looked at people and started going, oh yeah. Hmm.

What ADHD Looks Like Day to Day

SPEAKER_03

So I want to I would love to I would like to pivot. I would like to pivot, please. Yes. Um we've talked about Jez, you sort of the things that you are coping with all the time on like a in a broader sense. We know about your your little bucket of conditions that you've got that you're carrying around with you. Um you've kind of shared like what some of the bigger moments look like. I'm curious about what does this look like for you day to day? You can touch on any part of it. The neurodivergence, the ADHD part. I know for the for the bipolar for the most part, since you're medicating your medications at pretty good places, that that doesn't impact you as much day to day, but correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_02

Nah, that's

Routines, Pill Cases, and Daily Systems

SPEAKER_02

kind of like I just vibe with that. That's like chill. I remember to take my medicine. Um oh, that is one of the things that we can start. So like, okay, so like one of the ways that my ADHD impacts me every day is I have to remember to take my medicine. Um, now because I am on a carefully crafted cocktail of medications that is currently working, um, I have not worked past the fear that adding in medication for ADHD will not disrupt all of that. Um I will likely tackle that at some point. Right now I'm choosing not to. I'm choosing to cope as best I can. That's fine. Um, so in the meantime, um, I would like to be happily uh stable. And so what that means is I do have to remember Shaker Medicine. So I have like kind of what I do is create little systems that mostly work um to help me cope with just the ADHD and like remembering things. So like patterns are really important for me. So like I have like a little pill case, I've shown Lex and she was like, I don't even know how you remember to do this. So like I'm not sure. If I don't put the things in the pill case, then I can't remember to take the pills, and then next thing I know, I feel terrible by the end of the day, or I'm sad in the next three days, and I don't understand why I feel terrible and I'm sad, and it's because I didn't take the medicine three days ago. So pill case with date.

SPEAKER_01

I have multiple alarm set for me. So I get it. I do.

SPEAKER_02

So and that's another thing. So like it's it's a whole battle of like learning what works and what doesn't. So like um root patterns work really well for me. So for a lot of the things I do every day, I have like naturally built in certain patterns um to like patterns of just like daily for daily living, like patterns for taking my meds. Do I remember to brush my teeth? Do I remember to like shower? Do I remember to like pack my lunch on the days I have to go to work? How do I make sure that I don't forget my laptop? Um, building in little patterns as much as I can. And like I know it probably doesn't always look like it because I do forget everything all the time, but um, there are like building in the patterns does help to prevent me from like losing things as like even more than I could in in general. So if there's like a way I can create a habit around things, I try and do that. Um, because the more routine something is, the more second nature it is, and then the more likely I am to just do it. So, like in the morning, like when I get dressed, if I have if it's a day that I have to leave the house, I get up, I like go to the do brush my teeth, do all the things, I get dressed. I know that before I leave my bedroom, once I'm fully dressed, I sit on the edge of my bed, I open my pillcase, I take the medicine that's under the little sun for the daytime. I flip it around to the nighttime, I close the pillcase, I put the pillcase back, and then I walk out of my room. I call my dog, I walk out of the room. And then that way I know I've literally done everything I need to do before I exit my room and I know I'm safe and I haven't forgotten anything. I know I'm good to go. Um, I come down the stairs every morning, I make coffee, I take the dog out, I come back inside, I do whatever it is I need to do from there. Um, so like creating patterns is really helpful for me where I can. The problem then arises is establishing new patterns. New patterns are very hard. So sometimes um it's kind of like I have to like trick myself into falling into a new pattern. I have to like gradually add one piece at a time. I can't just like revamp the whole thing and expect it to stick. Um,

ADHD as a Game With Yourself

SPEAKER_02

like the whole coffee and then dog thing happened by accident. And it's truly just because I need coffee, it takes time for that to happen. So if I don't want to sit there and stare at the coffee pot, I'll take the dog outside and then I come back and I ta da have coffee. So like trying to like trick myself into like little things like that has um helped. Sometimes ADHD feels like you're constantly playing a game with yourself. You're constantly trying to like. I was gonna say that. to like making something work.

Rewards, Deadlines, Anxiety, and Demand Avoidance

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they they tried gamification with me and that didn't that didn't go over too well. Um because I don't like so when I was a salesperson like they would always say um you know strive to achieve this goal and you can get a bonus of X number of dollars and I was like I don't care. Like so reward system like that didn't necessarily work for me. So I'm still discovering you know we all have to discover reward works for us.

SPEAKER_02

Rewards don't work for me because I will just decide that I don't need the reward. Yeah and then I will opt out of the activity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah um but I was gonna explain deadlines are helpful for me y'all can't figure out who's talking in his no we have a there's a delay going on right now so I apologize everybody there's there's a little bit of a delay going on go ahead Jazzy oh my god I was gonna say um deadlines are helpful for me because then I feel pressure to get it done before the deadline um task importance is very helpful the more important it is the more likely I am to get it done by the deadline that it's assigned um what I've learned about you shy is that my ADHD is greatly assisted by my generalized anxiety.

SPEAKER_02

So my generalized anxiety would never allow me to function with the level of demand avoidance with which he functions is a degree of it that I function with daily but like I watch you do some stuff and I'm like I could never and it's because I'm too anxious to do that.

SPEAKER_01

And that's the funny thing about how it all impacts us differently right because for me reward systems don't work um I struggle with routine but part of what you talked about and this is something I just wanted to throw out there for those that are listening um atomic habits is a really great book that talks about how to do what jazz is talking about. So connecting in an activity to another activity so you can get the activities done. So the atomic habits was interesting because I was able to then associate and layer certain things which is kind of like what you do jazz. And so for a lot of us that can help um gamification can help I'm gonna make it fun I'm gonna make sure you know I check off what I've done for the day there's a lot of different tips that can be done and in future we'll have people on that can help us with understanding those systems and processes but it does take time to learn and it takes time to get our brains rerouted I'm not sure if I if you will or retrained um did I answer that question Lex or is there another way you could prompt me through that to answer that better

Career Change and Rebuilding Routines

SPEAKER_01

um yeah and I because I have another one I have I have another one that kind of digs through a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03

So one question I had in particular about how it affects your day to day is because we know that you had a a little career pivot. So you are still a nurse but you're no longer working at the bedside. So I would imagine that your day to day looks a lot different. So how did you manage that then since you need patterns you need habits and now every pattern and habit is completely different because you're doing a totally different job now.

SPEAKER_02

How did I that was fun for like a good couple months there was a couple months of me just being like oh no what do I do now? So I think for me what definitely you mentioned that I am very much like a note taker. So it was a lot of like observing other people's patterns other people's routine and how they did things the other helpful thing is that my job is very much cyclical. Everything happens like the same things happen every month. So like the same things happen every three days um so once I learned that it took a few months to like get that down um and then watching how other people did things trying my own things eventually I kind of landed on what made sense to my brain um and then was able to then establish that um I have once I got that down I have written it down um so now every month I make the same checklist for myself um I have it saved on my computer um but because I like to write things down I also have a particular way that I take notes every month um so that I am able to write down what the projects what every project that I I'm working on is what phase it is in what are my notes for each phase what are like each things I need to do every month I put little check boxes. So I very much have narrowed it down to a highly specific way that I do things in the same way every month. The perfectionists in me also prefer that once I figure that out that people don't bother it. That just like leave me alone to follow my little pattern. Once I have the pattern the pattern is proved effective don't touch it.

SPEAKER_03

Don't touch it you touch it you break it you buy it except for nobody wants to buy it so don't touch it so

Dopamine, Boredom, and Desk Jobs

SPEAKER_03

I am curious about okay ADHD you kind of you need some dopamine hits and when you were at the bedside you had a lot more of a dynamic job happening um and now you work at a desk now you're looking like me with a desk job how did you manage that I would imagine some boredom was coming into play how did you deal with it?

SPEAKER_02

I get bored um I try and shift up switch up the tasks that I do during the day sometimes if I can um when I get to certain phase of my work cycle where I'm stuck with the same task um then it kind of looks like getting up to wander around the office for a second or setting giving myself five minutes to play a game on my phone. I try and keep um I try and keep a podcast or something that I like to listen to. Either we'll have one that I'm like I currently have one I'm binging um or I have like ones that come out that I've caught up on that come out weekly.

SPEAKER_00

It's not art I said new binging one because I'm getting out of the new episodes Jazz is always sitting have you listened to this podcast have you listened and I'm like no I have it okay so yeah she said so I listen to podcasts I will um put on documentaries um because my boss doesn't really care so but I mean also documentaries you can kind of listen to I don't have to watch it I could just put kind of put it on subtly at my desk and listen to it.

SPEAKER_02

So I kind of create dopamines that way I schedule a coffee break around 2 p.m so then but I can't the rule is that I cannot take the coffee break any sooner than when one o'clock so why the why the rule because it's very arbitrary why I have the dopamine hit too early so it's like a reward for working hard until then because if I if I schedule it any earlier than that then I have nothing to look forward to for the rest of the day. I find that 1 p.m is good because then it gets me through till four it's enough dopamine to get me through till four so I get a special coffee and I also get a nice snack at that time too so sometimes it's fruit sometimes it's a dessert so I have to do little things like that to like keep me engaged. So not work related it's all other little pleasure sensory things that keep me engaged because I don't have the same level of like um sensory engagement working a desk job that I did working the bedside. There's also zero life or death so there's zero that part.

SPEAKER_03

You're not trying to save nobody life day to day um that kind of stuff is why I say you work at an adult daycare because you be scheduling your little snack breaks and little games and you can just be watching TV. It's a your life is different. Yeah Jazz works for a children's hospital so it's she kind of was always at a daycare of some sort in some way.

SPEAKER_02

So it was never yeah if you work in pediatrics I imagine it has to be running around you gotta can't be too what's the word uh I don't know the word that's coming to mind is morose but I don't think that's the right one. So anyway continue on that feels like a kind of word than what we're looking for but we definitely don't want to be morose do continue. What else would you like to know about me?

Support, Dysregulation, and ADHD Crash Outs

SPEAKER_03

So if you're having like a harder day coping with any of the things that we've talked about what does support look like for you?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think it depends um sometimes it's just me being able to reach out and like tell somebody that I'm dysregulated. Like since we were just talking about work I can think of like one day that I was just having a week and I can't tell you why I was so dysregulated that week but I was um but I remember texting you and Shy and just being like you know what you guys should make an episode about when you're so dysregulated that you're like 30 seconds from an ADHD crash out. I do remember that I have not yet learned that for myself it was like having a weird week um and I was sitting at my desk everybody was in the office that day everybody was talking to everybody I had in my noise canceling headphones I was doing all the things that I possibly could like every everything that I could except for going outside and physically touching grass like to try and calm myself down I was literally about to stand up in the middle of my of my like office and be like shit um but because that could result in a call the HR then I said you know what as soon as I send that text message to you guys I was like oh we should move like I'm talking to myself I don't know I was like we I was like move like you you gotta get away from this desk. So I like just like quietly closed my laptop got up found the quietest room I could find I went to a like um they we call them like huddle rooms that was like off of the beaten path where like I knew there would be light foot traffic. I didn't even want to see people's feet walking by that's how like dysregulated regulated I was in that moment. I went to the quietest corner that I could find in the stair near stairwell that I knew nobody used, turned off the lights, closed the door thankfully there was like a downdraft from the AC so it created white noise and I had brought my coffee in there and I just like opened my laptop and set it down and just sat there and drank my coffee for the next hour and a half. Um so just being able to like in that moment text you guys and be like ooh I'm having a hard day I'm feeling very dysregulated and I'm going to crash out and then I think Lex was like well friend maybe you should try and have a find a quiet room and I was like you're right I'ma do that and then I went and did those things and I felt better um or if I'm having a day where like Shy said your alpha your mom says you're alphabeting all over the place just no I'm doing my best like I just need people to understand that I'm trying really hard there's a solid chance that I know that this isn't going well. But what I need right now is to not be judged for how not well this is going. I just need you to be like woo woo woo woo woo woo um you want me to hold that cut for you before you spill it everywhere like you spilled the other two? Yes great.

Radical Acceptance and Neurodivergent Friendship

SPEAKER_02

And I'll be like thank you that is the or just like um you know so just like uh for me support looks like understanding understanding that I'm not gonna do it perfect. I'm probably gonna do it in a way that's different than what somebody else thinks is right. I'm probably gonna do it in my own way that may or may not make sense um trust that I will end up at an appropriate answer even though it didn't look pretty getting there. Um and just be support I like um the way I heard someone say like radical acceptance and in the in um I was looking to someone who was talking about having ADHD and they use it in context to themselves um being like we need to reach a point of like radical acceptance of ourselves and who we are so that we stop trying to adjust to um uh standards that don't really fit or ways of doing things that don't fit how our brains naturally work with like neurodivergence. So sometimes it is nice in hard moments to know that your friends are going to have a degree of radical acceptance like being able to say I'm having a hard time and they are going to be able to radically accept whatever disorganized thought pattern or behavior you're having in that moment and then later they can be like now girlfriend why you do that but in the moment just be there to hug you and help you through is just comforting to me I think okay

Unlearning Expectations and Character Flaws

SPEAKER_02

so it seems like you had to really get to a point of understanding what you needed when you are dealing with something is there anything else that you feel like you're still figuring out about yourself and your neurodivergence or your mental health or just any of this that you're still trying to work through maybe had to unlearn anything like that? I still think that I'm unlearning uh some like norms societal or cultural norms in certain way um as women uh there's certain uh things that we're expected to do we're expected to be good at keeping house we're expected to be good at organized we're expected to be good at knowing how to like plan and feed ourselves and our family we're expected to be good at you know things like that we're expected to be good at knowing how to have ourselves put together um I'm still working at accepting and learning to be okay with the fact that I'm probably not the person that's going to ever have it together. And that's not bad. It's not a bad thing that is not a character flaw. It is not a character flaw for me to not be able to organize anything to save my life like it is not a character flaw for me to like not be able to have my clothes folded and put away in three to five business days. Like these are not character flaws um they are things that are a result of the way my brain is wired that they're challenges for me um they're not a reflection on who I am um and people are going to have to understand that these are struggles for me in the same way somebody who has like diabetes or something like that people understand that if their blood sugar drops they better hand them some orange juice or throw Snickers at them like not those stickers just you have to understand that this is like um I have to be okay with being able to advocate for myself in that way just being like hey I know this looks like wild but I'm trying and you don't get to hold this against me in any way but I have I'm learning not to hold it against myself so I can advocate for myself in that way.

SPEAKER_03

So unlearning some of those things that we are um oh shoot what's the word uh um uh pressured and donated um the word that keeps the word that keeps coming into my head is like culturized and that's not even a word there it is socialized thank you so that's another fun thing about my ADHD is it doesn't remember words it don't it's it's the oh it's never the right word it's something um so the so it it's unlearning some of the things that we are socialized to believe um and learning that those things are not character flaws they are simply things that I have to learn to do a little bit differently I can appreciate you making that part kind of clear just like look y'all this ain't gonna look like what it looked like for you you're gonna have to just be okay with that I think that's something that comes with time and self-acceptance and as your friend I have watched you come into more and more and listen we tell the truth on this show we've had whole conversations that have not gone that well because of me not necessarily giving you that same respect and dignity of just like you are doing something different that doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because I wouldn't do it that way. Um so I can appreciate that honesty with that too just like hey that's not gonna look like this for me and you need to just be okay with that or going over this going over this energy.

Learning to Advocate for Yourself

SPEAKER_02

Yeah and I think because I hadn't even made it to the point I am now with being able to accept that things look different for me and and reaching a point of acceptance in like having to do things a little bit differently. I didn't even have the words to I don't want to say defend myself but to advocate for myself that's the word advocate for myself um but to even be like hey I hear you I respect you I understand what you're saying but that's not like a realistic expectation for me. So I didn't even have the words to level set to where I could have even made that conversation go better.

SPEAKER_01

Um so there's a lot of it that has to start personally you have any questions you got brooming in your head about this um no I'm just sitting here because um it's shedding a whole new light this is the one one of the things that makes this podcast special is because we've really all gotten to know each other on such a different level and a much deeper level than us just sitting around talking about our lives and what we're dealing with, right? Um and I have s such an appreciation for you Jazzy when it comes to how you have you too Lex because both you guys did a lot of research you've walked through a lot of this granted you've been dealing with some of this longer than I have but you you've walked through, you've done your research you've you've analyzed certain things. So I'm just sitting here literally taking notes mentally and literally on things um So let me ask you this, Jazz, in that sense, since because this is where we kind of where I think we might connect. What are some things that you are still trying to figure out about yourself and everything that you're dealing with? Because I feel like there's always going to be stuff for us to figure out. I don't know if Lex feels the same way, but I don't think there's ever a point that we reach where it's like, okay, I got it. I understand everything about all of this. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like there's still more that

Still Learning How to Live With ADHD

SPEAKER_01

you want to learn?

SPEAKER_02

I feel like there's stuff that I'm always going to keep learning. Um, that's just kind of me as a person, is I feel like there's always more to learn. Um now, as I'm learning with my new therapist, part of that could just be perfectionism that we're working on. Um, so but anyway, another conversation for a different day. Um, but uh I I like to learn. I think that part of ADHD is always gonna be a little bit of trial and error because um part of what makes it great, also challenging, is that you kind of thrive on novelty, right? So um you kind of have to keep coming up with ways to make sure that you're getting like uh you're being effective with how you're doing things in life, but you also have to always find little ways to create um little dopamine hits for yourself, you know. So I think right now, um, a big thing that I'm working on is trying to figure out um how to better live with ADHD, like practically. Um, so I feel and I'm working on getting better with

The ADHD Tax in Real Life

SPEAKER_02

like the emotional side of things. Practically, still a mess. Um I have like it's like the basics that keep me alive go okay. Um most of the time. Like I did just tell like the whole story before we got on here about like how I forgot to pay the mortgage until like two days before it was like past due. Um, and so next thing I know, I was running around between banks, like because I didn't have enough time to like transfer between banks because it takes like five to seven days, and I haven't figured out how to like set up two different Zell accounts, um, nor had enough attention span to apply myself to figure out how to hack the system because there's like a way to do it without like creating locking down one of your bank accounts. I just haven't had enough attention span to apply myself to do that. So um I'm like running around 48 hours before like the mortgage is due, withdrawing like money from one bank account, like being like, and then the anxiety kicks in and I'm like, don't get robbed, don't get robbed, don't get robbed, don't get robbed as I'm driving, driving five minutes up the street to the other bank, yeah, putting the money in the ATM, like, don't get robbed, don't get robbed, don't get robbed. And then like money is in the ATM. I'm like, the whole time I'm listening to like a true crime podcast, like riding around being like, don't get robbed, don't get robbed, don't get robbed, like hiding hundreds of dollars. So like those are the those are the that's like the ADHD tax. That's the ADHD tax that I pay, like on the regular. And so like that's those are the kind of things that I'm I want to work on avoiding. Um it's I know that it's unrealistic to think that I'll always avoid them because that that like that's never gonna happen. Like I'm always gonna end up in a situation like that. But um the frequency with which it happens, I would like I I want to learn how to practically do that better. Um so yeah, that's what I'm working on, I think right now.

SPEAKER_03

Great. We're gonna wrap up because I know we've had you on here for a while. We did not expect to have you for two hours.

SPEAKER_02

So that's okay. I've had a good time. So thank you guys.

Jazz’s Key Takeaway

SPEAKER_02

I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, here's my final question for you. Um, what is like maybe a key thing you want people to take away from our conversation with you?

SPEAKER_04

That is a very hard question. I think that would probably be

Be Okay With the Extras

SPEAKER_04

okay with all the extras.

SPEAKER_02

Like be okay with all the extra things that you might find along the way. Like, I found out I had bipolar and then I found out I had ADHD. Like, you know, don't be afraid of the extra labels. Don't be afraid of all the extra little nuances about yourself that you find. It's only gonna help you later. So don't be afraid to find out more. Don't be like, okay, well, I'm not gonna ask any questions because I don't want to find out more. Don't don't be an ostrich and shove your head in the sand. Go ahead, find it out because that's the only way that it gets better.

SPEAKER_03

I like that answer. Don't be afraid of the extras. I was like, where's she going with that? What are the extras?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, nothing. Everything else that you said I'm carrying around in a bucket, as you put it so fittingly. Yeah, I was like, Everything else.

SPEAKER_01

It wasn't even a nice purse or backpack, it's a bucket. No, it's no, that joint is a bucket.

SPEAKER_02

It's heavy.

SPEAKER_03

You carry things you like in your purse, you carry your lipstick in there. You don't be carrying stuff in a bucket that you like to keep, really. Sometimes you'll be like, I'm ready to throw this over there. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01

But I I I like what you said there, there too, Jazzy. And I think that that's um really important because that's a part of the self-acceptance, right? Is this just who we are, and we're okay exactly as we are. There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think the faster you get there, the better things go. Um, I kind of think with each one of the things I found along the way, um, I went through a phase of trying to deny that little part of me. So, like, my takeaway comes from experience, and if I could tell past me a thing, that would be the thing I want to tell past me. Um, so like getting diagnosed with bipolar, that was a label I definitely didn't want. Um then getting diagnosed with ADHD, it was like, okay, so then this is all the ways that things are wrong with me. This is all the ways that like I behave that things are wrong with me. Um getting diagnosed with anxiety. I knew that one, so that was fine. Um, but then I've known that one since I was like five, so that was okay. But um then to like so like all the other little things along the way was like, oh god, there's another thing wrong with me. Um so yeah, so just just learn, roll with it. Um, take your time, feel your feelings, feel the big things, and be okay with the extras.

SPEAKER_04

I like that. There's nothing wrong with being extra.

SPEAKER_03

Shy saying and wrong being. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

We know she thinks I don't know if I'm extra. I just have a lot of extras.

SPEAKER_03

Shy is just extra. Different things.

SPEAKER_01

Different things. And on that note.

Thank You, Jazz

SPEAKER_03

No, thank you so much, Jazz, for letting us take up so much of your time in sharing with us and letting people hear your full story so we can just stop talking about you like some random member of the group.

SPEAKER_01

But love, we'll have you back on again because, like you said, there's so much more to explore and to talk about. And I think it'll be great to have you back on. So at some point, you know, like Lex and I talked about our relationship as friends, but you know, talking about what it's like to be in this circle of friends, I think would be something really interesting because like like we talked about before, we we might have the same diagnosis, but we

Closing and Global Squirrels

SPEAKER_01

deal with it in different ways, and then you know, we'll have all these different friends that we have that have different neurodivergence. So, how do we work together and get along and all that kind of stuff? I think will be a really interesting topic. So, we want to thank everyone. Um, if the story resonated with you, please like, comment, share, um, give us some interaction and engagement on whatever platforms that you're listening to us on. Don't hesitate to email us too at bgbgsquirrel at gmail.com or to leave us comments at fanlist.com forward slash bgbgsquirrel. Um, we would love to hear from you. Um, and for those of you that have reached out to us privately, thank you very much for all the people we're picking up around the world. We were finding new destinations every week. Lex is like, hey, we just got picked up in Bosnia, and I'm like, okay, what's up, Bosnia homies?

SPEAKER_00

Another one, yeah, Bosnia, Israel, and then another one was like Russia and Ukraine.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, all of these countries are at war. Why are they listening to us? So maybe we're bringing some normalcy to them. I don't know. That's wild, but thank you so much for listening to us wherever you are. We appreciate all of our squirrel. What did you do? Russia and Ukraine. Yep. Shout out to everybody around the world. I'm gonna shut up. I'm sorry, y'all. Wherever you are and wherever you listen from, we really appreciate it. Okay, so here's the wild thing, you guys. There is such a lag in the internet right now. I don't even know what Jazzy is saying, so I just know she was talking while I was talking. So yeah, that's that's kind of like how our neurodivergence works. We're just all over the place. All the tabs are open and we don't know what they're all saying, but they're working and talking to each other. But anyway, thank you all for listening. Thank you, Jazzy, for being here. And squirrels, we'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks for hanging out with us today. We'd love to hear from you. If you have any questions or topics you'd like for us to cover in our podcast, please don't hesitate to let us know. You can send us a message on our fan page at fanlist.com forward slash BGBG Squirrel. That's fanlist.com forward slash BGBG Squirrel.

Head Shot

Lex

Host
Head Shot

Shai

Host
Head Shot

Payton

Editor

Podcasts we love

Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.