LIVING SEASONALLY & BUILDING QI - AN INTERVIEW WITH SARAH HODGKINSON FROM THE MIDDLE PATH

This week I interview my friend and great accupuncturist, Sarah Hodgkinson, from The Middle Path.  We have a wide ranging conversation that entails how she came into this field, the evolution of being a Pisces, how to build Qi and living seasonally. I hope you enjoy. You can find Sarah's work and tincture's here. And you can find her instagram over here. 

Do you want to start 2026 deeply exploring yourself through the lens of your birth chart? Astrology School begins in February and you can read all about it and join the waitlist here. 

On December 6th I will hold my annual class on the astrology of the year ahead. Walk into 2026 understanding the astrological ley of the land. You can buy a ticket here and the replay will be sent out to everyone who joins. 

To book in for a chart reading and a deep experience into self-understanding through the lens of astrology, head here. You can follow me on IG over here.

Transcript

0:05

​Hi, how are you? I'm well, thank you. This week I have something a little different. I have an interview with one of my great mates and an incredible healer who has helped me so much. Her name is Sarah Hodgkinson and she runs a business called The Middle Path. She's an acupuncturist and so much more, you know, when I. First started to see her, which I think was 2022, could have been earlier. I was in such a heavy yucky time, and not only did she, she just healed me in all of the ways. And one of those was. Being able to speak so freely with her. And that's just something that's continued on in our, in our friendship. I still see her in the realm of her being my healer, but we are also mates. We, I have a lot of respect for her and the way that she lives and the way that she embodies and lives her values. You know, it's. It's not rare. I know I'm very blessed to know a lot of legends who really, really live their values, but it also is rare. And so I really have been wanting to speak to her for a while to yeah. Introduce you to her resonance and legend nurse. She's very serene and angelic and at the same time. Incredibly skilled and strong and grounded and deep and an all around legend. So before we begin, I just want you to know, like I give her the gold standard of legend ness as far as someone whose work I would highly recommend. I hope you enjoy before. I pass you over to this recording. I just thought I'd mention hi. We're in Sagittarius season. Very exciting. I absolutely love this time of year. I love the, the last few months of the year, I get so excited as a deeply optimistic person. There's something about getting to do the deep work of Scorpio. And really look back at the year that was let go of what needs to but take stock, feel what needs to be felt, go deep in what, what needs, our attention. And the reward of getting to go so deep is that now in sad season, you get to go so high now. We're standing on top of a mountain and we have a 360 degree vista of our life of life itself of possibility. We get to from this place, really look at our lives from a gorgeous perspective. We're able to see more of what's possible. We begin to. Look out and look ahead and look wide, at the vista of our life, at the potentiality of our life. And so I just, yeah. I highly recommend you make use of this. You, and, and you'll feel this like the buoyancy of Sagittarian season. This is that when we begin to dream about what comes next. What's the, what's meaningful in my life? What do I want to do that feels deeply meaningful? Am I doing it? We have the fire to bring it to life. So I'll be back next week to fill you in on the Full Moon in Gemini, and I hope you enjoy this interview. Welcome to. Your couch in your clinic room. A pleasure to be here. It's so nice to talk to you in this way. Like, uh, for everyone listening, shout out to our friend Lulu, because she told me about you, which must have been 20, 21, 20 22, I think, when I first started to come and see you. And that first session. We did the pre like questionnaire and I think that's when I started crying and I think I probably cried for so many of those sessions. And for reference, Sarah is a seventh house, Pisces Sun, a seventh house, Aries Moon, and a Virgo ascendant. So she's very, very, very good at holding space. If it, if it makes you feel better, you're not the first person to walk in and start crying. I bet I was gonna ask you that actually. You, you must get a lot of c criers. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have, you are so beautiful and angelic and it, your space is so, it's so tranquil and. Uh, for one of a better phrase, I'm gonna say like feminine. Yeah. Well, like I have designed the space in that way, to be honest. Like, the first part of healing, and it was very much like how I was trained, is to have people arrive in a space that already sets them up for your body work or your treatment to come ahead, you know? So, um. Yeah, the clinic is designed like that, that when you come, you start to already just kind of wind down a little bit and um, yeah. And the space for all the emotions, which are usually the, the cause of our symptoms anyway. Mm-hmm. To come out. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's such a good point.'cause yeah, it's the same. I send out a couple of emails before a client comes to see me and it's just, it's the whole layup for the sesh. Like getting them to think more be, to be, to come into it in a reflective space. They've oral, I've already asked'em about any recurring patterns, archetypes that keep showing up, so they're in that kind of open mindset. But it must be so different, like,'cause for me it's, when I'm in a session with someone, it's, it's heady, but it's also energetic. What's it like for you as the practitioner? Like where are you when you are? Sticking pins in people very, very gently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you know, like the treatment really starts kind of the moment they get in contact. And it's interesting because even the way they choose to contact you is already giving you information about them as a person and their particular patterns. It's like, you know, have they. Called you directly, which is like extremely rare these days. Yeah, it's pretty much everyone's inquiring, uh, through the website or something like this, or are they DMing you, are they texting you? Like this is already saying a lot about, it's so interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really do call. Yeah, that's right. And it shows you're like a really intro introverted person and you know, you like your privacy, so it's suggesting that it might take a bit more time to get, get to the real. Underlying cause. Mm-hmm. How did you get into this work? Through being sick myself, actually, um, I left school and went to law school. And Did you? Yeah. I didn't know that about you. Yeah. So I went straight from school and did two years of a law degree. No way. That's amazing. Yeah. And um, basically. Basically had a breakdown, really, like fair. I was just totally trying to fit myself into a mold that wasn't me. And after two years, like the workload was obviously huge and I was so burnt out and I kind of realized like I'm hanging out with all the arts and science kids. Like I wasn't hanging out with anyone from my own faculty. I just couldn't see myself. Working in that field with those people. So I left and took like a year off and traveled through India and that was really what took me to the point of complete sickness. Mm-hmm. Like just, I got so sick over there. Mm-hmm. Um, and then came back thinking that I would get better when I just went back to normal food or you know, like, yeah, just normal lifestyle again. But I was still so sick and run down and I actually. I like, I was doing meditation classes at the time and he was an acupuncturist. So just one time after class I was kind of like, you know, is there anything you can do for me?'cause I'd grown up with just western medicine and very normal upbringing in that sense. And I had no idea, like I'd never used alternate therapies before. So I was really like, is there anything you can do? Because I didn't know if there was, and um. Yeah, and I got better and all these things that I just thought were normal. Like I used to have really bad period pain and I never slept well and like all these things that I thought were normal got better and then that was, that changed my life basically. That's so interesting, like especially with the, you know,'cause you're a Pisces, the seventh house is you amongst other people. And you've got your sun, your mercury, your moon, and your Venus there, which is a lot of that energy. So 7,000 people are always highbrow. They're always, especially if your mind's there, you've got a great, beautiful mind, which I already know about you'cause I like you. Uh, but with that pi energy is interesting'cause that, that is like being a chameleon or there's that capacity to be a shapeshifter. And then what really takes your natural abilities to read a room, is through learning to be in your own body first. Whereas like your, let's say like your early training in life was being highly adaptive. And it's interesting'cause Virgo is your ascendant and Virgo is the opposite of Pisces. Is, and Virgo is health and the boundary of your own physicality, like your being in your own skin. So that's, I don't know. That's really interesting that let's say the initiation came through Almost like forcing you to be in your body, if that makes sense. Yeah. Complete sense. And I feel like. Like I'm getting better at it as I get older. Mm. But it's still like a lesson I have to keep coming back to. Mm. You know, it's like I don't have perfect health and my body really is that indicator for me of like, well, okay, something needs to change here. But I think that I've had so much experience in that now that I know my own. I know myself well enough to like change things when I need to, but I can really hold that for other people because I've lived it, like I've been really unwell at times and I've gotten better, so I know what that journey is like. Yeah, yeah. I know what it like is like to feel sick and then what it takes to kind of get where you want to be. Mm-hmm. I think that, I mean, that's so great. I don't know if you know about Chiron, but he's, he's called the wounded healer. He's an. He's a mythological being, but he's an asteroid in an asteroid belt between Sam and Uranus. That's awesome. Well, that's his location. Where's yours? Oh, your, oh, yours is in cancer. And yeah, and it, it's interesting because really he, he's the father of medicine, let's say like, is it Asclepius is someone who trained underneath him. Okay. All the great healers trained underneath him. And he had a wound, he was wounded, he used to teach military strategy, to all the gods like Jason Herley, Hercules, and then he was hit with a poison arrow in the knee, then put all of his conscious attention towards healing that injury. So he became a physician and herbalist, et cetera. And then he taught the healing modalities to the gods. Yeah. He became the healer through the wound. He became the healer. So that, I think it's just such a, it's like a rite of passage, isn't it?'cause it's like the space that you can hold for somebody is gonna be so different to somebody who's just been in the books but has no life girth. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I think that. I, you, you wanna hope that like whatever modality you're going to see that that person has really like, had to use it and had to go through that before they're kind of guiding you on the way. Yeah. Fingers crossed. I mean, it's the same for you, right? Like astrology came to you. Yeah. And it changed your life in that moment. So you know what it can offer people. Yeah. Um, and I don't know also that thing of, we kind of think practitioners or. Teachers or whatever, um, maybe have perfect health or they have Yeah, their astrology perfectly. Yeah, sorted. But you don't really want a practitioner that is like that. Totally. You know, you wanna actually be really riding the waves and living it, not just Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Reading the book once and, yeah. That's such a good point. And I think we were talking before we, hit record about a million things, but I think one of them is. I just really feel people are getting so much more, they're becoming a lot more discerning about who has the lived wisdom versus who's just in the books or, or where It's like more of that sort of cult of personality thing versus somebody who's yeah in it What do you do to take care of yourself?'cause when I'm in a session with you, like you are so present, it's not like you've just drifted off. So how do you, how do you maintain yourself? Yeah, I think. Maybe there's like two parts to that because on some level, like this feels to me like vocational work. So you know, it does, like, it's energizing for me. Like I, like, I just love being in that intimate space with someone. It's so precious and special. So there's definitely that. But then I do also really structure my week. So that I can be really super present when I turn up. You know, like I only have two days in clinic. Mm-hmm. And I take regular breaks throughout the year. Mm. Um, and the rest of my life is very, uh, yeah. I mean, I guess structured in a way that there's so much spaciousness and downtime. Mm-hmm. Uh, so that, yeah, I get that care outside of. Work. Mm. Because it's true. Like, I mean, I've worked more days a week than just two before. Yeah. And that does exhaust me. Yeah. Like holding space for lots of people and you can't help but carry some of that home or think about, you know, how they're doing or how they're getting through that thing. But to two days for me at this point in time feels just really nourishing and sustainable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can we talk about how you live off grid? Yeah, sure. Um, I was thinking about that just when I was getting out coffees, like, it's such a funny idea, like living off the grid, but really you're plugging into the much bigger grid. Yeah. That's like the whole point. It's so weird. Yeah. It's so strange that that's what it's called. I find it really fascinating that you are able, that you do that, and just the way, I don't know, the way that you live is so. Legit. What was it like?'cause that's, you've been off grid for two years now, haven't you? Almost two years. Um, yeah, A year and a half. Yeah, A year and a half. Yeah. What was, what did you notice, like just with your own person when you went, when you started living off the land? It was, I mean, it was kind of like a coming home. Like there's definitely. Um, well and thrive when I'm close to nature like that. Mm. You know, I've always been someone that did lots of camping or like, I was always going to nature, you know, because it just fully recharges me. Mm. So I think, um, it sort of felt like, it felt like when I was living in a suburban house, it's like I had to do yoga and I had to do my breath work, and I had to do like all these things to feel like. Kind of Well, and then I moved there and I just felt, well, and whoa. It's like it was like that. And then it's like, oh wow. Yoga does something now, and breathwork Oh wow. Takes me to a level now. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. So it's like your baseline is completely different. Yeah. It's like I felt well just from where I lived. Wow. Yeah. And Sarah doesn't even go to the shops Every, like, yeah, just even the way that you are able to, gather your own food. Something that I always used to say to Sarah was she's so, fascinating to me for many reasons, but like, you are so gorgeous and angelic. But hell yeah. You can kill a deer and skin it and make a bag out of it and then go forage herbs and put them in that bag. Like, it blows my mind. Like the scope at which you, live and like something I've said to you several times. I have a, I have a list of people of like. Who will I call when it goes down? There's only two people on that list and you'll, but yeah. How did you get so skilled in everything? It was sort of a combination of my upbringing, but then like something that I really, I guess, got into as an adult. So like as a child, I would go out hunting with my dad. Mm-hmm. Um, so we did lots of. Um, yeah, just hunting and camping trips with different families and things like that. Mm-hmm. And most, like both sides of my family have kind of always lived close to the land in some way. Um, but that type of hunting it was, you know, pest control and, um, honestly, like was not, it was not like it makes my stomach turn Yeah. Actually to kind of think about some of the stuff. Right. But. Um, it was also just like this baseline of skills, like I felt very comfortable or do feel very comfortable in the bush and the outdoors. Um, that feels like home for me, really. Mm-hmm. So some of those experiences, like I spent most of my teenage years as a vegetarian. Yeah. Um, because I just felt really quite like appalled by, by the way that meat was, um. Being harvested and then obviously the shops and you know, you can go into that whole thing. So then after I had my daughter, I don't know, there was just this kind of primal urge to really connect to that like wild or more wild side of myself that I felt like I had really lost through law school and that kind of chameleon nature. Really Like feeling like the men would be hunting or it wasn't a very feminine thing to do, or. You know, all of the social, like programming around it really. Mm-hmm. So yeah. And then in my late twenties, I, um, bought myself a bow and arrow legend and, um, just started practicing in my backyard, um, because we'd always hunted with rifles before that. So like I really wanted to have that skill. And then, yeah, that just kind of led, led them to taking hunting seriously. Um, and. Yeah. It was such like an amazing transformation I think for me, because I feel like I've been at both ends of the spectrum. Mm. Seeing death in the really not beautiful, pleasant aspects. Yeah. And then actually being able to like, you know, then completely rejecting it and feeling like I wasn't contributing to suffering or problems and being misguided in that thought as well. So I guess bringing some harmony and feeling like I can actually harvest my own food or take the life of an animal in a way that's really beautiful. Mm-hmm. Like they're not two things that we normally wanna hold together. Right? Yeah. Like death and beauty. But you can take an animal and know that it's gonna feed your family and your friends, and you're honoring the whole body of the beast. Mm. That's beautiful to me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The other person that I would call is my, uh, brother-in-law. Okay. And he, he does, go hunting, but when they, when he gets a, a deer, that's a lot of food for a long, long time. Definitely. Yeah. I feel so grateful, I guess for that early part of my childhood because like that skillset if I didn't even know that I really had it. So then when I wanted to kind of take up this hobby, it felt a bit more accessible, you know? And with your training,'cause you do a Japanese style of acupuncture, is that correct? Yeah. And so with your train training it the level of. Subtlety. I don't know, it just feels like what you do. It's such ati. Very, very subtle awareness. How did you train that or did your intuitive abilities?'cause I feel like that's like, it's the work, but it, it seems like you're incredibly intuitive as well. Like even anything that you touch, it's like, oh, that hurts. I didn't even know. And it's like where you start, like how did that come. Did you find that you became more sensitive the more you honed in on the skill of acupuncture? Yeah. Both. Like definitely like I have very sensitive nature Yeah. To begin with. But then it is also skills that can be learned. So like the more people that, the more bodies that you're touching. Mm-hmm. And the more you're really focusing on that. Like I think that never stops developing as a practitioner, like that level of. Like sensitivity. Mm. Just keeps growing. Mm. Yeah. To talk about, I guess like the Japanese style. Yeah. That's one of the main things that makes it very different is that like, as a practitioner, we practice and we are trained to feel the qi. Like we are trained to feel the energy cool in your body. Wow. So it doesn't matter what you say to me, I can feel it. Um. So that's kind of different to say other styles of acupuncture where, you know, they, it is quite, can be quite painful. Like they're really driving the needle in Yeah, that's because they want you to feel the cheek. Oh, they want you to feel the sensation. But I don't have to do that because I can feel the cheek so I can needle you in a way that's really gentle. Wow. And comfortable knowing that it's moving what it needs to move. And I don't need you to give me the feedback. Could you tell me, or can you tell everyone else about that training that you did with the, it was like that school of blind Japanese acupuncturist, because that blew my mind. Yeah, yeah. So I haven't trained directly with the blind acupuncturist, but my teacher has spent many years and I trained under him. Mm-hmm. But in Japan, they have a blind school of acupuncturists. Wow. Sort of started around the 16th century where they, they began basically recruiting blind people to become acupuncture practitioners. Wow. Yeah. It's amazing because, like what we were just talking about, of feeling the q people that are blind have so much more sensitivity in their capacity to feel, so they, they're still like some of the best clinicians in Japan. Mm. Yeah. When,'cause when you say Q, my sense of that is, that's like life force. Yeah. And then can you, are you, so you are reading the Q and then reading. The Q is going to tell you all the information that you need to hear. Is that how it worked? Because I know with me, like when I've come to see you, my vitality was really low and that's something that I've been working on and then you and I have been working on. In sesh. Yeah. So does that grow the amount of Q that a person has or is that, I'm thinking of it in a weird way. No, you're, you're definitely right. In one way, I guess the way I like to explain it is more Q is more like electricity. Right. Or, or information even. Right? So we want that information or that energy to be flowing and abundant in the body. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.'cause it's like we were talking about in the kitchen the other day. Um, like we're talking about a lot of things in the kitchen. I know, I'm not sure where you're going with this. Not gonna go into that stuff, but could, could be an interesting podcast. It's another episode. With the exercise we were talking about and I was like, it's energy. Like of course I have to make the energy. Yes. Like I have to make more of it. Yes. Because I think sometimes when I think of life force, it's like it's linked to my soul and it, there's this, it's, it's like, it's my, my frequency. But what you are saying that makes more sense. Well, no, there's different types of qi, right. Or different types of energy. So like we have. We have what's like called our inherited sheet. So that's like what we get from our parents and Right. That is expended over our lifetime. So that's kind of like a complete, um, a complete unit that we are taking from and not necessarily necessarily refilling. Right? But then there are things like lifestyle that can add CHI to us. So that's things like. You know, the right exercise and the right diet and the right people and the right things. This will build chi in the body. That's cool. Yeah. So what do you see are the major depleters of cheese? Especially like,'cause I, this is predominantly women who listen though I know there's some absolute legend blokes I listen to. Hello? Hi. What do you see as the main depletes like,'cause I was just thinking as you were talking about that like. The internet screens. Does that deplete? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, but I think, I think like maybe the biggest part of the internet, I mean, definitely there's all this stuff on the nervous system and the light and all, you know, what it's doing biologically to our bodies. But it's one of the biggest things I see for women is really like not living a life that. It's in alignment with what they really want. Mm. And the internet is just like feeding that. Mm. You know, it's comparison, fantasy and Yeah. Not being present really with who you are and what you want. A quick little interruption. I wanna mention two things. Astrology school starts, in February. The best place to get all the intel and all the goss first, including the early bird specs, is to be on the wait list. So I'm gonna link to that below. Level one, and this is open to anyone, level one especially, it's not just if you wanna be in the profession of. Astrologer, you will deeply learn yourself through the astrological lens, while also learning the layers of this language, of this very beautiful, elegant, symbolic language. You'll also get that experiential juice. Of how to apply it because you'll be applying it to your own chart. So classes start in Feb. It's gonna be an amazing round. Uh, will it be the fifth year? I think it will be. We've got a Gorge manual. I know what I'm talking about. I know it works, in terms of the way that I teach it. And I'd love to see you in. That group. The other thing is that on the 6th of December, I'll be holding a class on the astrology of 2026, and I'm really excited for it, especially when we hit midyear. There's some changes that are taking place then that are gonna feel incredibly. Awesome. And yeah, I've got a lot to say. You'll find the link to that below the class will be live on the 6th of December, everyone who attends will get the recording. Okay. Back to the laughing sesh. Yeah. I think that's interesting. I read for a lot of people who are highly sensitive and I mean like just seeing your chart, you're also incredibly sensitive as well, energetically and emotionally, and let's say psychically too. What do you see as that process of'cause because you know, when I'm looking at somebody's chart and they have those markers, part of their evolutionary journey is really landing inside of themselves. And it's like turning on more parts of themselves, so they're living from the inside first. So many highly sensitive people learn to read the room first. So it's like they're living from the outside in. Yeah. And it's like they have to make that shift. What do you see when people present as very sensitive? Yeah. Well, there's, there's two types of sensitive, like from. Our tradition I guess you could say. Yeah. Like there are people that are naturally more sensitive. Mm. And this can be kind of like a healthy thing. Like in some ways it's an advantage because their body is very healthy. So you do one small change and they're like already on the road too good health again. Right, right. So this can be really beneficial. But then there's kind of what we call unhealthy sensitive. So this is someone that, um. You know, we'll go out for a meal with friends and sort of one ingredient in the list is gonna like throw out their digestion for days at a time. Oh, right. Someone's perfume at the end of the hallway is gonna like, trigger Right. A full body response. Um, we don't want to be that sensitive. Right. That's, that would be, that's so difficult to live in the world. Yeah. Like that. Mm. But that's also like a sign that we're not really in balance. Right. So we can do a lot to kind of bring our body back into balance so that we can have the sensitivity of what's happening around us and with others, but that it's not actually like throwing our body into a full spin. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's exactly what you're saying. It's like you need to be, you need to be the master of your body. Mm-hmm. Um, and if you're constantly influenced by. Everything. Like, it's just a, it's too much. Mm. Yeah. Yeah.'cause something that I think about a lot is I, I, you know, I sort of feel in a way we're being trained, our attention is being trained away from us. And so we, we are, our focus is often so outside of ourselves that it just makes me think, okay, well if, if you are not the host that's animating your body. Like what's, what's there? Um, who's, who's, who's home. Who's home. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you ever find that, that, that people can be, I don't know, does that, would that affect somebody's qi? Definitely, yeah. You know, and like, I think yeah, exactly what you're saying. So many women are just so in their heads that they're not in their body, and it's usually some kind of health crisis that actually brings them back. You know? Mm. Um, the body's coming. Hey, what about me? Mm. Yeah, totally. And like I take your Turkey tail. Sarah has three tinctures and I'm taking this one for my kidneys. Can you tell us about them? Yeah, sure. Why am I taking the Turkey one? I've been finding it really helpful. I, it's funny, I, I have it in the morning like you suggested. Yeah. Before I have my coffees and I've gotten to that point where it's like, it's funny, it's naturally over the last, it's probably been two months or more that I've been taking it now, I think, and I have now replaced that first coffee with a cacao and then I have a coffee, but it's usually decaf. Yeah, which is weird. That's massive shift for you actually. Yeah. Yeah, because I. But it's funny, it's, it, it again, it's like this subtlety of, I don't know, it feels like this subtlety of your work. It's like it comes in through the back, but, and before you know it, it's like your consciousness is like, no, man, don't, don't do that. Like, make this option. It's interesting how it's worked, but yeah. What's, what's that one about? Well, all medicinal mushrooms are what we would call like a tonic. So that means that they act in the body in a way to, uh, strengthen you across the board. So like if your know, say your digestion is weak, it's gonna strengthen it, but if your immune system is overactive, it's also gonna pull it down. So the types of herbs or plants. Fungi. Mm-hmm. That really helped to create like a super strong, like center of gravity in your own body and your own health. So then all of the mushrooms then have their own kind of, um, little idiosyncrasies. Mm-hmm. So Turkey tail especially is good for that cheese, that yang force in the body. Mm-hmm. So helping to build energy, helping to strengthen the immune system and, um. But it, yeah, it's a, it's a really good one for these young women, basically because it gives you energy, but not the kind that you get from a cup of coffee that kind of sends you on that creative spike for two hours. The slump on the other side, it's a real sustainable energy. And I love what you said there about like now you're making different choices. Mm. Because that's what happens like slowly when we actually have the reserves again in our body. We choose things that are better for us. Mm-hmm. Because we have capacity. Like we, when we're completely burnt out or tired or exhausted mm-hmm. We choose what's easy. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Because the other week when I was really, uh, fatigued, it was so weird to be in that feeling again. Um, it's too much information to tell you why. Everyone. Uh, and then it's like, I, my, my brain couldn't even compute that it could come up with a solution. Yeah. And then when I finally did, I was like, oh, of course this is what I need to do. But yeah, that's what I've been noticing, especially like, and seeing Bell and doing the Pilates every, every week and just I'm, I am making better choices. That that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, you, you actually need to have a certain amount of energy in the body to make a good choice. Mm. You know, it's like I see a lot of women in burnout. Mm. You know, that's like a big percentage of people that come to me. Mm. But when you're in that state, like the crazy diet, the intense workout regime, mm. Like that's, that's not ever gonna work in that situation. You actually need a bit of something in the tank and then you can make changes. Mm. Yeah, it's funny. I feel like I'm built like an ox. Like I'm, I'm very, I'm, I'm sensitive. I'm so sensitive. Yeah, you're very robust. Like constitutionally. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I'm always like, can you like. Can we do that bloodletting thing? And it's not actually bloodletting, what's that called? Cupping. Cupping. I love cupping. Like we can do bloodletting though too. Oh really? Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. Ah, I'd be open for that. Some medieval shit. Yeah. But yeah, it's, so, I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but I feel like I hold both of those things at the same time. And sometimes I feel like I need like really intense. Body work stuff, but actually I think what works best for me over time is the more low impact stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's a beautiful example of healthy sensitivity though. Okay. It's like you're naturally very sensitive and your body is naturally, like you're, you're quite Yeah. Strong and robust, so. Yeah, you don't ripped. Yeah. Joking. You get the ticket of good health. Yeah. That's good. No, I keep saying there be, you'll be ripped though from all your Pilates. Totally. Yeah. But like lean ripped. Um, but I keep joking to people. Like I don't want to be, I'm type casting, but you'll know what I mean.'Cause it's a. It's a repeating thing, but it's like, you know, there's that, um, school of single motherhood where they get jacked. I don't want to be jacked. I wanna be like lean, but really strong.'cause Yeah. You know, I think as well being 44 and having like a, a 5-year-old child. I am thinking about longevity. What do you think sets somebody up for longevity. Yeah. It's a combination of, being in tune with your body. Mm-hmm. That's a great start because I don't think that there's one formula for good health. You know, it's like we go through seasons and each, each time we need. Each stage of life, we really need a different prescription, so to speak. So being in tune with your body, getting on top of things early. So it's like most women will kind of come when they can't bear their symptoms anymore. Right. You know, and by that stage it's like quite an ingrained chronic thing. So it's like the first time you get a little nickel about something, go see your practitioner, or go and take some supplements or whatever you want to do. Don't let things balloon basically. Mm. And yeah, keep moving. Like, I think that's so important as we age. Like whatever it is that you like to do, you know, walking weights, Pilates, you know, whatever. The trifecta. The trifecta. Yeah, that's right. Do it all. And, and I think being open to changing that. I think that's the biggest thing and I get it, you know, like there's so much to think about. Like we do sometimes just want to know that I get up and I have this for breakfast every day and then that's gonna see me through to whatever, 80 years old or, yeah, I dunno. 110. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You probably will. Literal to 110. Um, but yeah, just being open to changing and always being fresh in the mind and surrounding ourself with good people. Yeah. And like there's so many ways to feed ourself, right? Like good people, beautiful objects, beautiful spaces, projects that inspire us because yeah, that's really what keeps us Well, that's such a good point. And you've said it a couple of times, like the, the outer environment, but including within that the, the people that you surround yourself with. Yeah. I think it's when people are in touch with themselves and they're, they like themselves Yeah. Is really helpful. Yes. They know they have a good sense of who they are. They don't need you to like that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's no black holes. I'm just looking at,'cause you've got the REI and then you've got the Lion's main. I know the Lion's main, it looks like a brain. And that's good for your brain, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. Lion's Man's good for like the whole nervous system. Oh, okay. So yeah, it will really like settle you down and help you to be a bit more embodied. Mm-hmm. Alright. But it has, yeah, but it has all of the cognitive. Benefits too. Mm. So like, it can really help with concentration and memory and, um, focus. So like I love that kind of on my work from home days. Mm-hmm. Just, it does really have that in my cacao or my tea or whatever. Yeah. And just really helps me to stay on track. Mm. Yeah. And what about the rei? Is that, um, oh, you tell me. Yeah. I don't need to fumble around trying to find the word. I have the specialist here, REI, she's known as the queen of mushrooms. Right. So she was one of the most revered mushrooms in all of Asia. Um, because she's like very connected to longevity. Is that she? Yes. It's connected to a sheen, which is like your spirit. Right? Um, so yes. Like this actually Yeah. Connected to spirit. Mm-hmm. Um, but reishi again, it's also really calming. Mm. So it's, uh, it's, it connected to the heart, like it will open your heart, it will help with any kind of emotional issues that you might have going on. Uh, it will help to keep you more calm. It helps with anxiety. It can help with like actual, you know, biological, cardiovascular conditions. Oh, wow. Um, it's extremely powerful. It's great for the immune system. Like there's like a whole list of benefits to it. But I really like to think of it as, um, I had one woman describe it, taking it to me as like having a warm hug. And I really feel that that's what it's like. It's like this, um, it's like this inner strength that you get from rei. I really feel this return to simplicity.. Do you have a sense of. That for other people like that return to the simplicity or, I don't, I don't even know what my question is, but I just think because you are living in a way that's so tethered to, you're mainlining the real grid. I love that. I actually, I think I could work with that plugging in. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And you've seen the benefits like Yeah. Do you have a sense of what's ahead? I'm not asking you to predict you, me, to make a prophecy. Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, I'm all for lying on the earth for sure. But I think, yeah, I think, you know, we're at kind of just such a strange time in being a human. Mm-hmm. You know, like we live in such a weird, unnatural way and so many pressures to live that way. You know, like even just. Like the cost of living is so high for most families that I think we're gonna see some really kind of amazing, creative solutions. Yeah. Over the coming decades of like people Yeah. Just not buying into that Yeah. Anymore. Totally. You know, like, it's like it's just not gonna be sustainable. So I think we're gonna see some pretty cool things happening with that. And I think part of that is really gonna be people just saying like, no, I've had enough. Like my nervous system can't handle another influence or post about something. Yeah. Um, yeah. And, and looking for ways to, to live more simply and more in tune with nature and the cycles, you know? And it's only like a couple generations ago, it's like if you ask your grandparents, well, what this stuff was nor like normal for them to eat, what grew in the garden or to. You know, live differently at winter and summer. You know, that that was just part of life. And so that kind of next generation, I think will be reclaiming a lot of that again. Yeah. Just as a natural response to moving so far away from that. Yeah. I think so many more people are going to want to be closer to the land. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Again, like the, the interesting part of you is like all, you live that way and then you also run a, a brilliant and successful business. It's such an interesting part of you and one of the things that we always like talk about is biz'cause it's so fun. Yep. I guess it's like because you are tethered to your values, um, is that a central focus in terms of how you run your business? Definitely, yeah. Yeah. I mean there's just like we were talking about this before. Yeah. Like we started recording, like there's just certain things for us that are like non-negotiable. Negotiable, yeah. You know, like certain lines that we're just not willing. To cross in terms of like our personal lives and Yeah. Our values and Sure. Like maybe you could make a lot of money doing certain things. Yeah. But it's like, that's like off limits. Yeah. And I think like we've, we've spoken a lot about that together. Yeah. And I think that over time, values led businesses are really gonna be where people want to invest, like where they wanna spend their money. Because we are gonna outlive all of the fads and all of the. The people out there making a quick buck. Um, yeah. Even though maybe it looks, looks amazing right now. Yeah, I agree. I think that's, I think that is what makes something sustainable. And like you said at the beginning too, like your work's, it feels like a vocation. And it's the same with mine, like. The, the 90-year-old version of me doing this work, I already love her. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. A reading from, I wanna get a reading from 90-year-old me, you know? Yes. Like, and I'll be doing it then. It's so different to like my, like my dad for example, who's retired. Like I have no desire to retire. Yeah. I'm always gonna be creating. Yes. And it will have different arms, I'm sure. And expressions. Yeah. I think. Something that is super chic, is leaving money on the table. I love that. Yeah. And not being grabby. Yes. You know, especially when you have the instinct, you can read the patterns, you can see like, oh, this makes sense, or I should do that. That could be a quick game. Yes, it is. Like, or anything that starts like that is like, it would be detrimental. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I see my business as like very separate to myself. Yeah. But then at the same time, I don't wanna create anything in this world that is against like the values Yeah. My personal values. Right. Yeah. Like that just doesn't, it just feels like fundamentally, yeah. Wrong. I couldn't go home feeling like I did that in my business today. Totally. There's people that are going into summer and there's also people that are going into winter, so it's like opposite ends. Yeah. But do you have any tips on entering both of those phases? Yeah, I was actually like thinking about this'cause you, you mentioned you might wanna talk about it and I, I just. Was really reflecting that. I think good health is really about living the season to the maximum. So it's, you know, that's where changing our lifestyle comes in all the time, constantly. But if you really want to be healthy, you want to like make the most of that season. So here in the southern hemisphere we are going into summer, and summer is like the maximum expression of yang. So yang is that more masculine, active. Of out there kind of extroverted, um, energy. Mm-hmm. And then yin is the opposite. The more feminine, receptive, passive, mm-hmm. Energy. And so coming into summer them. Like the chi in our body, what we were talking about before, it actually moves to the exterior. So it comes from all our inner vital organs and is moving out. Oh, wow. Yeah. And this is mirroring what's happening in nature too. Mm-hmm. So like if you think of the deciduous tree, right? Like in winter, like all of the sap returns to the trunk of the tree, and it does that to protect itself over the cold. And in the process of drawing all the sap inwards, like the leaves. Dropped to the ground, you know, it looks sort of like it's dead. And then as spring comes and summer comes, that yang force takes all the sat out again and it, we see new leaves and homes for animals and all of these marvelous things, but our body's doing exactly the same thing. Mm. So all the energy of the body will peak at the summer solstice, because that's the most yang day right. And the most yang season. So. It's a gr It's actually like, it's a great time to be out socializing. Yeah. Great. Time to party. It's, it is like, it really is like, if you're gonna burn the candle at both ends, some is the season for that, you know, because the body will be more forgiving. Mm. Um, like we have more yang at our expense to go and do all these projects. Mm-hmm. So it's a great time to be, yeah. Building a business or working hard on a project or socializing a lot or. Um, just being out in the world. Mm-hmm. And then the opposite's true for everyone in the northern hemisphere. So the winter solstice for them is the most yin day in the most yin season. Mm-hmm. So they do really want to be, uh, as internal as possible. Yeah. Like allowing just all their thoughts and their things to come back to the interior for rumination and fermentation and letting go of. Things that aren't necessary, like necessary, doing less, going out less. Mm. Do you look at the sun? Do you do grounding and looking at the sunrise? Any of that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, where we live, like we see the sunrise and set, so you get to see both of them. Yeah. It's pretty. Awesome. Your land is so beautiful. Yeah. It's a very special place. And yeah, those, like the particular frequencies that the light is emitting from those, those steep angles is really good for our body. Mm. So, yeah, like going for that after dinner walk, it's like, it's instinctive. Like it's an instinctive impulse Right. To like want to go and be out in it. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, thanks so much for being here, legend. I'm gonna link these three, tonics down below for everyone. Is there, and I'll link your website obviously, but do you have anything coming up? Because you should do courses because I know like if you're ever in the mountains, you need to book in to see Sarah. But for all of you who aren't here locally, how can. Yeah, the best thing to do for now is like, jump on the mailing list. Yeah. So courses will definitely be coming. Yeah, we're talking about that a lot. Yeah. Um, but yeah, if you wanna get started with a little something like anyone can use the extracts, which is Just a really beautiful way to have a little bit of something in your daily ritual. Really a little reminder, um, a little coming home. But yeah, newsletter is the best way to. To stay in touch. Thanks, legend. Thanks for having me, Jules. We're gonna go to our friend's cafe now and have some cake. Yeah. Thank you. Bye.