That's the please your parent style mentality. I want to make everything fun and enjoyable. You're gonna raise lazy and entitled young adults because they're not gonna want to do anything if it isn't fun.
SPEAKER_00What do I do about discipline if she doesn't care about toys being taken away?
SPEAKER_01If they have a favorite stuffy like a comfort toy, I would never take that away.
SPEAKER_00I want to start the behavior board for my sake mostly, but my only concern is I don't want chores to become a quote unquote bad thing in my kids' eyes. As later in life, they may hate cleaning a house, etc., because it was used as a consequence. I just need some reassurance that it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode we'll dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie, what are we talking about today? Today's topic is why consequences fail. Why con Oh, very good. You know, and it's good. I mean, I'm sure there's a few reasons. I'm sure it's not just one set reason.
SPEAKER_01There's a whole bunch of them. Usually it's inconsistency or the consequence. Well, either the consequence is wrong or you're inconsistent. Let's
talk about both. Let's start with inconsistency. Okay, you've got to be 100% consistent. That's why you start with one behavior board in the first week and then two in the second week and three in the third. So now you've got three of them after three weeks. Anyway, you start small. You want to be 100% consistent with one behavior that you're trying to change. It's either something that you want the kids to start doing or stop doing. Now I'm talking about three and above here. If it's a toddler, it's just going to take time. Okay. They don't work right away. They work like that. Maybe after the 15, the 50th correction, you use consistent corrective actions with toddlers. Okay. I go through both of that in the free behavior board. It also has a toddler section in it. But anyway, yeah, you want to start small so that you can manage it and you can be consistent. Like if I was to, you know, be uh teleported into your home, um I would deal with everything in day one for sure. But I'm level 10 with this. You're learning too. It's not just the kids. You are actually, it's more you than your kids. You're learning how to do this. So you start small with something that you don't always want to start with the biggest thing to deal with. Like no hitting can be difficult. Um, it might be something smaller, like uh put your dirty clothes in the hamper and nowhere else. So they can't land on the floor first and then go in the hamper three hours later. Something like that. But yeah, start small and be 100% consistent with that small thing that you've started with.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry, what was the other reason why you think that often they fail?
SPEAKER_01Well, I said inconsistency
in the other one. You've just got the wrong consequence. Like the consequence might be uh dust the coffee table. What if they love dusting? Most kids like dusting. You put a duster in their hand, they're like yippee. Um, so yeah, it should be something that they don't really like to do. It's usually give them a wet rag and they have to clean the top of a baseboard or like for one thing, I love cleaning, but I hate emptying the dishwasher. It's not cleaning, it's putting stuff away, which I usually like too. But yeah, I don't like doing that. So it should be something that they don't love doing. But that's why the consequence is something that they happen to love doing. So they're gonna keep hitting their little sister just so they get to dust the coffee
table.
SPEAKER_00I know that it can be just so confusing though, because consequences, I think there's a lot online about that, about the idea of them having to be connected to what actually they did wrong.
SPEAKER_01Well, the punishment fitting the crime, it doesn't always have to. It doesn't matter much at all. The only time I will do that and really kind of stick to that, but not in all situations, even. So if it's no hitting your little sister, I would make them do something nice for the little sister. Like let's say that they both had three chores per day. I would make the hitter do the other kids' chores the next day. So that is the punishment fitting the crime. That's appropriate consequences, all that. But overall, it doesn't even matter, really. Okay, that's a fallacy.
SPEAKER_00Do you want to get straight into the parenting questions?
SPEAKER_01Sure enough. But one more thing is I talked about the positive action consequences, why they would be wrong, like with the dusting. I only talked about the positive action one. That's the one that you start with. So if they break the rule, then you get them to do a chore or something within 15 minutes of being asked to do so. But if they won't do that, then you resort to the negative deprivation. That's the second consequence. You don't start with that one, you end with that one. And that one often doesn't work too, because you'll take something away that they don't care about. You want to take something away that they care about right now, right today. It could be something um that they never usually play with, but today they happen to love it. Well, that's gonna have an impact, okay? So you have to take something away that they use, that they are using every day and they would miss for 24 hours.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I feel like we could go on a lot about consequences, but I feel like we have quite a few questions here, which will cover some of your thoughts around them. Okay, good.
First one is Dina from Australia. What consequences can I give a 10-year-old? She's very whiny, even over simple things, like when things are not perfect for her. She doesn't have a phone and they only use gadgets on weekends. I take away the laptop on weekdays when I ground her. She can be very loud and can be triggering, like saying, Mom help me repeatedly, and it feels annoying for me. I don't know if she has anxiety and I don't know how to help her handle her emotions. I'm at the point where I think I'm lost at parenting. I'm scared because that it's too late because she's 10.
SPEAKER_01It's never too late. If she's 10 years old and she's still whining and complaining, um, then that means it must work. Either you give it attention or it annoys you, or you try and talk her through it. And a lot of parents try to regulate their kids' emotions. That's not the place I'd start with. Okay, let's say their emotions are all over the place, okay, and they're really whining and crying and all that. Up and down, up and down. Set yourself up as a calm leader first. If their emotions are still all over the place when you're a calm leader, then the approach would be different. I wouldn't even want to tell you what that is because I don't want you to start there. A lot of parents want to focus on the kids. I don't do that, I focus on you. Set yourself up as a calm leader, which often in turn calms them down. So, and then there was something else she said in there. It was not the first question about the whining. She said something else right after that. What was it?
SPEAKER_00She said that she doesn't know about anxiety, and I think that maybe just touch on the fact that you're not a Well, I'm not a medical professional.
SPEAKER_01I can't diagnose that at all. But like I said, set yourself up as a calm leader. If you're really worried about her anxiety, then take her to a medical professional and have her assess there properly. I can't do that, but all I do is I teach parenting. So, and I set you up as a calm leader. So set yourself up as a calm leader, no matter what else you're doing with her. It's still a great thing to do in conjunction with everything else, okay? But something else was said she's really loud, she's really, yeah, just work on your leadership skills. You might want to check out my boot camp course. It goes into great detail. It's a whole five-week program. It's all sort of set out over five weeks, and set yourself up as a leader using that potentially, and see how it goes from there. And then you then you can look into other things. But it's not too late. I specialize in teenagers. It's never too late, it's just harder. That's all.
SPEAKER_00I think that's the positive, is I think because oftentimes you're talking about toddlers, you're talking about three-year-olds, four-year-olds, but your calm leadership approach, you're still applying it with older kids as well. Just because you don't often talk about kids who are older than that age doesn't mean that you don't apply it to them.
SPEAKER_01Well, and with teenagers, it's more you want to pass the leadership torch over to them. It does shift and change when they're teenagers, okay? But you still want to be that calm leader for them. Um, but you want to pass some of that leadership over to them for sure. But yeah, she's only 10 years old. It's certainly, it's certainly changeable at this stage. But with the anxiety, I don't know. Like I said, I can't comment on that. But generally I've found that when parents turn themselves into leaders, everything else tends to get easier. Not always, but tends to get easier.
SPEAKER_00I think that is often something, and we've talked about this in recent episodes, is I think
sometimes parents are shocked when you focus so much on the actual parenting rather than the child themselves.
SPEAKER_01Okay. When I was asked to work with kids and teenagers, and there were always behavioral issues, okay? And what was fascinating is people would all the whoever the principal or the teacher would tell me, well, they have if do you want to look at their file, um, especially with the teenagers? And I said, no, no, no, no, no. I don't do that. I work on myself, right? My goal is always to make them feel good. That's it. That's all I'm doing. My goal is to make them feel good when they're with me. When they feel good, they do good. When they feel bad, they do bad. It is that simple. How you do it is a little bit tricky, but that is my goal. I want them to feel good about themselves when they're with me. And then how do you think they're gonna treat me? And then how do you think the results are gonna be after that? So we've got this mutual respect going. They feel heard, they feel like I like them, I enjoy their company. I work hard on that, right? I work hard on trying to connect with them. And then everything falls in place after that. But I always work on myself, right? I'm always working on trying to make them feel good, but it's always about me. And I never blame them. If they do something bad when I'm working with them, when I'm first starting to get respect with them, I always think, what am I missing here? What am I doing wrong? When I say leaders, you lead, they will follow. It's a natural instinct for a young person to follow a leader. Actually, it's an instinct for all adults too. Like if we find someone who's leading great and we like them, we're gonna get on board. We're gonna hop on that wagon with them. It's just natural to follow a leader, someone that you admire and who makes you
feel good.
SPEAKER_00Okay, the next one is Stephanie from the United States. Child just turned three this May. What do I do about discipline if she doesn't care about toys being taken away? She hits or says no to doing a chore, I take a toy away and she still continues the behavior. I take away her favorite stuffy, she continues. She'll cry and be upset about it being taken, but still will not complete the task or continues to be aggressive and scream. I take away TV time and that doesn't work because we don't really do a lot of screens in the home, anyways. How do I discipline a child who just shrugs and says, okay, take it or whatever?
SPEAKER_01It just sounds so messy. Um, okay, so you said that uh you take away a stuffy. I don't take away love. Like if they have a favorite stuffy, like a comfort toy, I would never take that away. Okay. Um, so then you said she so you take away a stuffy, she's all upset, but she still won't complete the task. Is that the first consequence? You still want her to complete that chore? You don't do that. Once you've gone to the second consequence, you never go back to the first. She doesn't have to do it, okay? But if it's something that you started with, like I don't understand, if it's on the board, start with a behavior board, set that all up and have like a task. Because you said if the task is something that she broke the rule because she didn't do a task, so it could be like get your shoes on because we're going out the door, you put on the behavior board, put your shoes on within five minutes of being asked to do so. If the task was the original thing that you were, you know, punishing her over. Um, and then if then you follow up with a, okay, so you don't put your shoes on. We'll put you in the car with your socks, you know, socked feet, and I'll put your shoes on when we arrive. So bring the shoes with you. So you have to follow through with that because she's really little, she's only three. Also, you said she doesn't care about taking toys away. I'm suggesting she does. Um, if you take away a favorite toy that you know she plays with every single day, I don't care what they say, it still usually has an impact. And they usually get worse before they get better. I think you're just too quick to react to her not getting on board with this. You get on board with it, and then eventually, after like a week or so, she should start to get on board, but not right away. She's gonna fight back even harder. They say, I don't care, take whatever you want. They're all they all say that when they're really defiant. So yeah, I think you're reacting too quickly.
Okay, the next one is Eddie from Poland. Hi, I have an almost four-year-old. He's generally well behaved. However, when we're in company, he completely changes. He does everything he's not supposed to, sings very loudly, disrupts others, or runs uncontrollably. It's almost like he gets overwhelmed with excitement. We cannot take him to family functions or church.
SPEAKER_01Well, church is a tough one. You expect a little four-year-old to sit still and for a whole service. That's a tough one. I can't really help you with that. I think it's an unreasonable expectation to expect a little child to sit through a whole service. Some will. Some are just calmer. He's more of an active child, obviously. Now, you said that he when you can't take him to family functions. I don't quite know what he's doing. Is he acting out or just being really loud? What you could do is say, look, you're just getting a little bit wild here. Let's the two of us just go sit in the car for five minutes and we'll read a book. So have something that you're just, it's not punishment. You're just gonna remove him so he can calm down a little bit with you. It's not time out because you're with them, and you're reading a book to him. Okay, he's not being ignored in any way. You're reading a book. So I would just keep pulling him out for five minutes and give it a go.
SPEAKER_00You've also discussed, I don't know if this is in the same kind of context, but the idea of setting them up for success ahead of time. So making sure, like maybe going to the park before, getting out some of the energy. Yeah, getting out some of the sparks.
SPEAKER_01Um, potentially, yeah, yeah, that could work. Just going to a family event, I didn't see as that hard to do. Like what I mean is because you've got such a good out, you can just take them out to the car. So yeah, you could try that. But I would assume a family event, okay. Yeah, I I don't know why I'm kind of not right on board with that for some reason. I don't know why. And this is why I do the marketing. Yeah. And I leave the parenting to you. I guess I do that when we're going to a restaurant and there's nothing else I can do. You know, if I'm taking my kids out to a restaurant, we are going to the park beforehand, running them around. Not pushing a kid on a swing is not getting energy out. You run around the swing set. Say, we'll swing three times, then we're gonna chase each other around the swing set, that kind of stuff. So, but I guess at a family event, you got something else you can do when you're there. So, because you can't always take them somewhere to burn off steam when you're going somewhere. So you don't want to do it with everything. But yeah, that that's why it's a good idea. I I get why you would say that, but yeah, I'd because you got some there's something else I'd rather you do. I'd rather you take him out to the car for five minutes and he misses out on that fun for five minutes. That's why it's a little bit harder, you know, harder hitting.
SPEAKER_00I used to work as um, I used to do gymnastics parties and there are always a couple kids who just the excitement just overcame them and they got a little silly.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Some kids get so wound up and their their bodies are their way of communicating when they're little. Okay, it's not about words, so their bodies just go a little bit crazy. So yeah, it's completely normal for some kids. They don't all do it, but some kids do.
SPEAKER_00Although, luckily, because it was a gymnastics place, there was a lot for them to do. So that's that's right.
That's right. Okay, the next one is Danelle from the United States. Two sons, a three-year-old and an 11-month-old. My question is, what would you do if your toddler will not cooperate with either consequence on the behavior board? For example, my toddler struggles to sit at the table and eat dinner. He always has. I know he's hungry because we do not give snacks past lunchtime. Likewise, there is always something for dinner that I know he enjoys, and he will one take a bite and say, I'm full, because he thinks it's an excuse to get up from the table. I say, that's great, but you need to sit here with us until everyone's done. The behavior board says, sit at the table together and do not get up until everyone is ready. Consequence one is that he has to clean the front door, buy the dining table, and consequence two is no TV for the rest of the night. He will say, I don't care, and then proceed to run away and go do whatever he pleases. What would be the next action? I need him to at the table or in my sight so I can help the 11-month-old eat.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I wouldn't do that one. I would pick something else first, get some leadership skills cemented first. Mealtime battles is one of my least favorite things to talk about because it's one of the hardest things to deal with. So work on other stuff first, maybe do that in week three. But yeah, I would abandon ship right now. It's just not going well. Sounds like you're doing it right. Yeah, he just doesn't care. Okay. Also, do you have a lot of visual cues? Do you have like you could even put like little um pictures and of where he's supposed to sit and have like so a visual cue, a visual reminder. And then you can say, or you could even time it. So you have to sit here for 10 minutes. Um, so maybe try that. But I you picked a hard one. It's like literally one of my least favorite things to work with in coaching is mealtime battles because they got to eat. It's not like you can just take the food away. They got to eat, right? So there's some compromising in that one. But yeah, start with something else first, get some leadership sort of cemented, and then move on to that maybe in week three. After after you've had a couple of successful behavior boards that you're doing, you're handling really well. Um, and then maybe move on to that one.
SPEAKER_00I do remember mealtimes were quite structured in our house.
SPEAKER_01Well, also, I sat with you guys and we sat, we chatted. There was chatting, like we were laughing. I made mealtimes fun. We were sitting there laughing. I can remember doing the continuous story, and my son, he's freaking hilarious. Um, I would say, I'm gonna start. So I would say this, and I remember this one night in particular. I said, Okay, once upon a time there was this beautiful lady. She was the most gorgeous lady in the land. Her name was Lisa. She had two little kids. They were okay. Anyway, she was smart and funny, and and then we had to sort of say, but, or and, and then it was the next person's time. So I said, and and my son picked it up and he goes, She ended up in an institution because she was delusional. We just had a blast. Like, make mealtime fun too. If you're just sitting there looking at them and nagging them about the food, the food was not the focus. Fun was the focus at our mealtimes. Would you agree?
SPEAKER_00I would,
but I will also I will admit my errors and my ways as a child. Are you gonna talk about the broccoli? No, I've already told that one. I don't think I've told this one though on a podcast, the carving.
SPEAKER_01You know what she did? She was such an easy little kid. Even now that makes me mad. Sneaky. Oh, yeah, she was such an easy kid. Never cried, never tantrumed, just easy, easy, easy kid. But she'd do weird things. Like I looked down and I picked up the plate off the table. She had carved her name in the table with a with a knife, a little or a fork or something. Carved her name in the table, but I hadn't told her not to. I never thought about it. I don't really think she knew that it was that awful because my reaction was what did you do?
SPEAKER_00She was just, she looked horrified. Similar to me hiding the broccoli. I don't know why I didn't have the foresight to realize mom is going to see this. That plate is gonna be lifted.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna see that broccoli and the carving of the name. You know what probably happened is you and my brother are probably so invested in the never-ending story.
SPEAKER_00You got bored.
SPEAKER_01She was left out of that one. Yeah, we're so busy laughing. He was five years older, so obviously it was more advanced conversations with him. Uh, but you were involved too. But yeah, it was maybe I tried and you were like, this story sucks with you, Amy. That's right. Your turn's up. It's only been 10 seconds. Yeah, that was your turn. Anyway, back to us. That's probably yeah. So make meal time fun too. My focus was always the fun, never the food. Now, how did you handle that when I did that? Um, I don't remember. I think uh you were sent away for a few weeks, I think. Yeah, had to pack my bags at four years old. Oh, I wouldn't I wouldn't remember because they hardly ever needed disciplining.
SPEAKER_00So when they did, it was probably I don't think there would I don't- you think that you made me make amends somehow.
SPEAKER_01Well, I would have. You would have had to have done something, but I don't remember. You were really little, like maybe four or five. Like I don't remember. That was that was like 30 years ago, so I don't remember. I know I'm just clarifying that I I don't talk a lot about what I did. And I'll tell you why. Because I was already a leader and I like to use creative stuff with my kids. Like maybe I made you brush my hair for five minutes. You hated doing it, and I love having it done. Could have been something like that. Um, so but yeah, it hardly ever had to happen. I was already a leader, so I don't teach how to maintain leadership, I teach how to get it. So yeah, that's why I don't talk a lot about how I discipline, because it hardly ever happened. And when it did, it was usually something weird. Like one was with my son. He forgot, I think it was a school project that was due and he forgot it at home. And I'd reminded him too. I said, You got the project? And he goes, Yep, we get to school. And he goes, Oh no, I forgot it. I'd drive all the way home and get it. So later on, I said, You got two choices tonight when he came home after school. I said, You got no, he said, I'll tell you what, mom, how about no no screens tonight? And I said, Well, that's a good option. Or how about you give me a makeover for 30 minutes? Like makeup. The only time he ever did it, he did it. He gave me a makeover. And I was laying on the couch and he was doing it, and he said, I feel like a serial killer. Oh, pretty girl. Had my eyes closed. I was like a corpse. It was great. So you see, that's the kind of stuff I did with my kids. I'm not gonna teach that. So, I mean, I do bring it up with clients sometimes, but yeah, you don't start with stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, the next one is Amber from Australia. My daughter's seven and the behavior board is working so far. However, I'd like to know how to handle the situation
where a rule is broken and we're out with friends, or if her friend is over. My son's three and he's arguing with everything I say, just like my daughter was before we started the behavior board. How do I make a rule that he will understand to stop that?
SPEAKER_01He's arguing? You can't do that. What do you mean he's wait a minute? So he's arguing everything you say, you can't put that as a rule. He he just doesn't respect you. You gotta work on your leadership skills, and he won't he won't disrespect you. Like your leadership is everything. I don't understand. What I don't understand is if it's working so well with a girl, why isn't it working with a boy?
SPEAKER_00So I think there's two questions here. Let's do the three-year-old son first. I think that what it is is they're arguing the consequence, arguing the rule. So I don't think that the rule is no arguing. I think that maybe it's like put the shoes away and then the child is arguing over that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, I don't argue. Like, okay. So the rule would be something like this put shoes away within five minutes of being asked to do so. It's timed. I don't say another word. All I'm doing is timekeeping. As soon as that timer's up, I'd say, okay, let's go to the board. Now let me see. You didn't put your shoes away. That was the rule. Now here's your consequence. They argue the consequence and you'd already started the timer, you don't discuss it. It's the discussions around it that are the problem. I just lay it out. It's on the behavior board. I just follow through with it. I don't discuss it. There's no freaking way would I discuss that. I don't want to put my shoes away. Oh, two more minutes left. I wouldn't discuss it. It doesn't come up in conversation.
SPEAKER_00I think that's the challenging part is I think that possibly the same way that like maybe I didn't realize that carving my name on the table was maybe not something I should do. I think that oftentimes parents, I'm not saying this is a situation, but I do see online that parents feel like maybe the child doesn't know, so they have to explain it.
SPEAKER_01That once you put it on the board and you've said you have to put your shoes away within five minutes of being asked to do so, they understand it. Parents always tell me how bright their children are in the first session, then by session three, they're saying they didn't understand. I said, you cannot have it both ways. They were gifted in session one, now they're a drooling moron in session three. No way. They understand it. They just don't want to do it. It's not the lack of understanding that causes all this. It's the lack of emotion, it's the lack of consequences. Or it has nothing to do with understanding. You've already explained the behavior board. Put your shoe, you can even go through, show them how to do it. Say, I'm gonna start the timer within five minutes, we'll have a dress rehearsal. So it's not the lack of understanding. That's the problem. But parents get pulled into it. I forgot. Well, I would say, Well, you'll know next time, won't you? And I'm just following through. Yeah, they're learned. They'll learn. That's how they learn when you follow through with this behavior board. That is the learning. But they already know. It's not lack of understanding. It's lack of impulse control or lack of consequences or lack of respect for you because you're not following through with anything. And you're arguing. You're answering them. I don't like that. That's not fair. I'd go two more minutes. There's no way I would respond to that. They're just they're throwing out the fishing line. They're hooking you. I they can't hook me. And then how do you approach it when you're out and about? Oh, good question. You just say, we'll discuss this when we get home. And then when you get home, you say, let's go to the board. And here you broke a rule. So just but mention it. You address it when you're out, but then you say, we'll discuss this when we get home. But but what are you gonna say? I said we'll discuss it when we get home. That's it. Now you shut down the conversation around it because you've already said that's it. So then whenever it, but not fair. I don't like it. And just say, Oh, beautiful day out, isn't it? You control the narrative, you control the conversation. Don't let them do it.
SPEAKER_00I remember that vividly. If I like did something when we were out, I remember you'd say, We'll discuss this when we get home. And we might have a friend with us. And then you'd be so cheery. I'd be like, Stop faking cheeriness. I know I'm in trouble. No, I was cheery because I couldn't wait to get home and find out a consequence. And my friends back and forth with you. I was like, stop talking to her. She's gonna give me a consequence.
SPEAKER_01You never communicated all that thought process. But it's funny because it gives them time to sweat and you time to think too. I didn't need that time to think, but if you do, it gives you time so you can come up with something.
SPEAKER_00Get home drenched in sweaty. Okay, the next one's Hannah from the United States. Three kids, one's four months, two years, and then almost four years old. I want to start the behavior
board for my sake mostly, but my only concern is I don't want chores to become a quote unquote bad thing in my kids' eyes. As later in life, they may hate cleaning a house, etc., because it was used as a consequence, if that makes sense. I just need some reassurance that it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_01Do not be a pleaser parent where you want to make chores fun. That's okay if they hate them. There's nothing wrong with it. It's actually really good if they do because they learn how to do things that they don't like to do. If you're teaching your kids, if you want your kids to enjoy doing everything that most of us don't like, by the way, I love cleaning, but I always did. I was born that way. But if you're if you want them to enjoy everything, how are they gonna do the hard stuff when they're growing up? You're not preparing them for life. So yeah, you don't want them to enjoy chores. It's okay. You want them to have to do the hard stuff. I used to tell my kids that you've got to do what you need to do before you can do what you want to do. So they understood you got to do some hard stuff in life. So don't worry about that. That's the pleaser parent style mentality. I want to make everything fun and enjoyable. You're gonna raise lazy and entitled young adults because they're not gonna want to do anything if it isn't fun. But I don't want to pay rent. That's not fun. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea. You gotta do the hard stuff in life. The earth the sooner they learn that, the better. My kids learn by about two, and my granddaughter's really good at this too. She's two. So if we go on to another activity, she instantly knows we're cleaning up the one we're doing right now. Instantly. She doesn't even think about it. There's no thought process. And because you're never having a big chaotic mess, it's not a big deal. We're just putting a school bus away and all the little people in their seats. That's it. Then we're gonna go do play-doh. So it's like that. Yeah, it's okay that they don't like stuff. You're teaching them that that's what life's all about. We don't want to pay taxes, we gotta pay taxes, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00I was playing play-doh with her the last time I was over, and we're making play-doh cookies, and she was making hers. I was making mine, and I was giving her mine, and she looks at one, she goes, mm-mm. Not good enough.
SPEAKER_01You didn't know what you were doing. Um, did you not do the chocolate chips correctly? I didn't. Yeah, grandma knows how to do that.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01We make a lot of pizza too. Evidently, the cheese, the salami, and the tomatoes and the peppers all look very different the way grandma makes them.
SPEAKER_00Okay, the next one is Miriam from the United States. My children are age five and three and don't respond respond well to chores
as a consequence. It's usually fun for them if it's something that they don't usually do, so it doesn't make an impact of teaching the not-so-desired behavior. Other chores they already expected to do, I wouldn't use as a consequence because they already have to do it regardless. So it's not a punishment. Um, everything else they're too young to do, and it would just create more work for me. I always resort straight to the negative deprivation, and it's rough because the reaction is very upset, obviously because I took their fun thing away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, you're doing it wrong because you're going straight to the negative one. Remember, if they do something negative, you want to replace it with a positive. That's why we start with the positive action. There's usually something you can find that they don't love doing. They don't have to hate it, but they don't, you don't want them to love doing it. Never give a kid a duster as a consequence. They usually love dusting. You want to give them maybe a wet rag and they have to clean the top of baseboards just in one room. It can be something like that. Or they have to clean the front of the fridge. Just give them, don't give them a spray bottle with water in it. Again, that's fun. Okay, so just you wet you wet the rag, just be with water. They can just maybe wipe down the front of the kitchen counter uh cabinets or something like that. So yeah, you can usually find something that they don't love. Also, they don't usually like cleaning out uh hardened toothpaste out of a bathroom sink. They also don't usually like cleaning the tracks for the sliding door windows, you know, just cleaning those up, just a wet rag. Yeah. But don't give them a spray bottle, don't give them a duster.
SPEAKER_00If if it helps, I'm listening to all of those and I was like, they do not sound fun.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't like doing the tracks. I do it, but I don't like doing the window or door tracks. And I love cleaning. I don't like those. My least favorite chore is probably emptying the dishwasher. You've said that twice. I know, I really hate doing it. I just hate it. It's not cleaning, it's just putting stuff. I and I like putting stuff away usually, but I don't, isn't that weird? I got a bad back. Maybe it's the bending, the lower rack. I don't know, whatever. Anyway, so we all got something we don't like. So if someone gave me a consequence, I want you to empty five dishwashers.
SPEAKER_00Uh okay, the next one's Lauren from the United States. Daughters five. Is it okay to pay the price of her actions? So
she knows the rule, but chooses to break it anyways, and then we'll complete the consequence. She loves TV, and even removing the TV does not deter her. We'll say the rule is no fighting with your sister, so now you've lost TV for the night. She'll say, Okay, I'll go call her. What consequences would help to actually stop her from doing the bad actions?
SPEAKER_01Uh, you can't put down no fighting with your sister. It's too general. Um, no, you can put no aggressive behavior if she hits, you can put that, but you can't just say no fighting. That's like saying, be good. It's too general. So she's confused and you're not making much sense. So she's like, I don't care what you do to me, I'm gonna keep doing it. So and look up, I've got a lot of videos on the interview and how you do the interview when kids are fighting. You want to figure out what's behind it. Oftentimes they fight over injustices. And if you don't make things fair and reasonable and figure stuff out, they're gonna keep fighting because you don't know how to con you don't know what's going on in your household. So oftentimes parents go after the hitter or the one that retaliates and yells. They're not the ones who started it usually. So parents often forget that. So yeah, look up uh Bratbuster's uh sibling rivalry you're fighting or the interview, and it'll explain how you deal with kids fighting, but you cannot put down not no fighting with your sister. You can put down no hitting, no aggressive behavior. But other than that, no. Plus, even if they hit, you want to find out why. What did the other one do to start it? I'd go after that one too, then and say, well, actually, she hit you. She's gonna get a consequence. But you started it. You called her a name or whatever. So yeah, yeah, you gotta figure out what's going on there.
SPEAKER_00We have one final question. So Chloe from the United States. My son's seven and is constantly picking his nose and putting things in his mouth
to chew on, and it's driving me crazy. Is this just normal developmental stuff? He also bites his nails, so it seems to be a nervous habit. Should I wait for him to outgrow it or address it with a consequence? P.S. I want to add that your bratbuster's course has changed our household. He had been struggling with behavior at school and has improved drastically since we took your course and started implementing changes on how we parent. Okay, that's called, I can't remember what that's called.
SPEAKER_01People who do stuff like that. What's that called? When you people are touching their face a lot or whatever. It's um, it's it's it's sort of scratching an itch, which is stupid, like because I just said they're touching their face, but even like picking their nose, biting their nails, there's an itch that needs to be scratched in these people. It's like an impulse. Um, so it's not bad behavior, by the way, but I would address it. There's no way I'd ignore all that nose picking and putting stuff in his mouth and biting his nails. But give them something else to do. Give them a distraction. Say, I'll tell you what, every time you pick your nose and do this and do that, here's that uh squishy ball, or get look up stress toys on just look online, and you can get like packages of a whole bunch of little stress toys. It's it's those fidget things or the squeeze balls or whatever. It's different for everybody. He might find something that works for him. But say every time you go to pick your nose, I will literally say, Grab that, grab the fidget or whatever it is. So remind him. So, but don't treat it like bad behavior and don't shame him, okay? Just say, look, it's just a habit. We want to get out of it. So here's what we're doing instead of that habit.
SPEAKER_00And of course, you don't have a specific recommendation, just gotta make sure it's child safe and all that.
SPEAKER_01Well, of course, yeah. But yeah, look up those stress toys. And you can just look it up, and you can see they're really safe. They're often sold. Those little pauper things and all that, lots of them. They're often sold like babies can have some of those too. So it's all safe stuff, obviously. But yeah, it's um what is it called though? When you're you're it's like a compulsion. Is it a nervous habit? Or it's like a it's not always nervous, it's just like there's just an itch in some people that they gotta like. I I've known people who always have to um tap their foot, always tapping their foot constantly. My son always had like a pencil, he'd be like spinning, you know, on his fingers. Um, it's just there's nothing wrong with these things. Well, not with those things particularly, but you don't want him picking his nose all the time. It's unhygienic too, you know, with germs. So yeah, just find him something else to return. You don't just stop that behavior, you want to replace it with something else.
SPEAKER_00And I do apologize for everyone listening who knows what it's called and is just screaming at us through the computer or wherever you're listening or watching.
SPEAKER_01There's something else that I used to say too. Um, and I'd say, what's that acronym for that means this? And there's all and I was doing a live, but I wasn't looking at the right screen and everyone was screaming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I do apologize for that in advance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sorry about that. But anyway, it's not a tick necessarily. A tick is more serious. Um, but it's just like we all have I count my fingers with my thumb sometimes when I'm out walking, just because I'm bored when I'm walking to the gym or whatever, I'll count my fingers or count my steps. It's just something to keep your mind occupied sometimes.
SPEAKER_00And I won't get into it, but I have my stuff too.
SPEAKER_01We all we all do, but those are ones that you kind of want to get rid of, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, that was it for the parenting questions.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so why consequences fail, lack of consistency or an inappropriate consequence? Um, it could be either one of those. Um, you
you gotta sometimes it's really tricky to find a consequence that works. If you're really struggling with that second consequence for three and above, that's the one that's the negative deprivation, you can invent leverage. You never start with that, by the way. Inventing leverage goes something like this. There's lots of videos on that. If you Google Bratbusters leverage, uh evidently videos will come up for that. Um, but it's it goes something like this. You, if you've got nothing to take away, no screens that they care, nothing that you can take away, and they wouldn't do the first consequence. You say this, you say, I'll tell you what, um, you didn't do that first, you broke the rule, then you didn't do the first consequence. We were gonna surprise you by taking you up for ice cream tonight. Now we're not going to. It's invention, you were never gonna take them out, but you just say you were so that you can take it away. So he'll be upset about that. And then he'll say, or she'll say, Can, you know, if I'm good tomorrow, can we get it tomorrow? I say, no, it was just gonna be a surprise tonight. You don't, you don't owe them that, okay? So don't feel like you have to do it the next night at all. They're gonna be mad, they're gonna be upset, which means it worked, right? So don't start with that though. That I don't like doing it, but sometimes we've got to. Okay, thanks so much for joining us. We'll be back again talking about another parenting topic. Happy parenting.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out Bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses, and private 101 coaching with Lisa. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if you could take a moment to follow, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more parents just like you. The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. Lisa is a parenting coach, mom, and grandmother. She is not a licensed psychologist or counselor. Her services do not replace the care of psychologists or other healthcare professionals. For a full disclaimer, please visit Bratbusters.com forward slash disclaimer.