You are in control. You are the leader. Do not let them pull you into any of these useless, ridiculous conversations. I didn't mean it. I forgot. You're mean. I hate you. All that manipulative, controlling stuff. Too many parents get pulled into that. Big mistake.
SPEAKER_01I can imagine some parents listening going, Well, you know what? That's great if you can maintain that calmness. But my parents rephrase me with yelling. It's an ingrained automatic response for me to yell back. And this just doesn't feel attainable for me.
SPEAKER_00It's only in your personality because that's how you've functioned in the past. Once you see the better results you can get this way, it gets really easy to change.
SPEAKER_01My recently turned two-year-old is headstrong and defiant. He takes any redirection as a challenge, and any reaction I give him feeds into it.
SPEAKER_00I want to remind you, he's two. He's been in the world for two years, and you're giving him all this power? Welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode we'll dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie, what is today's topic? It's about mastering the calm exterior as a parent.
SPEAKER_00Oh, good one.
SPEAKER_01I think this is, from what I see online, this is a tough one for parents.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, and I always say you can be mad and upset on the inside, but you just don't want to show it on the outside. This, I'm not too sure, aside from giving them acting classes, how I would be able to help them with this. But I I can talk about the importance of it. So maybe we'll go with that angle. How's that?
SPEAKER_01Well, no, actually, I'm going to talk about offline stuff that you and I discussed. Uh-oh. This was suggested by you, this topic a couple weeks ago. And it was because whenever we talk about calm not showing anger, you always go, Well, I can't help you with that. And then you go, Well, I could definitely help with that. I could show examples. I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, that would be great.
SPEAKER_00Typical of our conversations. They're all over the place. They're so messy.
SPEAKER_01So I think that it could help. This might be a podcast that you might want to watch on YouTube. We do post this on YouTube, Brapbusters Parenting. Uh, but I mean, I'm sure listening will help as well. If you want to act out some scenarios.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's
a good idea. Um, okay, so there are certain things that you do that you, the little tricks. Um, if it like this is when you're upset with your kids, you're disciplining them, or they're having a tantrum and you're trying to look calm. This is what we're we're talking about today. Am I right? Okay, it's the calm exterior. It's about body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions. I'll give you a few tips. Is you move slow, okay? If you move fast, you look up, you look, it's height, more heightened emotions. Move slowly. This is just a little, these are just the tips, the little tricks I'm giving you. Throw a few yawns in, okay? You might also want to look at your watch and your facial expression. You're gonna have to look in a mirror and practice this stuff. Because a lot of parents don't realize they're eye-rolling and doing that. So let's say you are mad, you might want to just maybe run to the mirror and look at yourself and then work on your work on what you can see in the mirror that you should correct. Because a lot of parents aren't aware of how they do look, okay? So that's a big part of it. But yeah, walk slow. Also, talk low and slow. So you don't raise your voice, you lower your voice. If a kid can't hear you because they're yelling, that's on them. Don't worry about it. If they can't hear you, that's their fault, not yours. So it goes something like this. You say, Oh, I see you hit your little sister. Okay, so let's say the kid is four, he's got the behavior board and it says no hitting on there. So you say, so you hit your little sister, okay, let's go to the board. There's see that little lilt in my voice, that, okay, let's go to the board. You want to really master that. And it just takes practice. So then you walk slowly over to the board. I don't care if he joins you. I could care less. He may run screaming, go in the other direction. I don't care. Remember, I only care what you do, I don't care what your kids do. You they will eventually follow you when you get good at this, but initially they're gonna fight you on this. So you just say, let's go to the board, and then you look at the board like you've never seen it before, and it's like this every single time, and you treat it like a business transaction, no emotions whatsoever. Now you say, okay, now let me see. So your rule was no hitting. If they're right there, you say, you can look at them and you go, okay, so your rule was no hitting. So your consequence is uh empty the dishwasher, except whatever, for 15 in within 15 minutes of being asked to do so. So that 15 minutes starts now. Now, what if they don't come up to the board with you? That's actually even better because you go to the board and then you say, okay, so you hit your little sister, you look down to where you would expect them to be, knowing full well they're not there, but you play through. This is theater here, okay? You look down and say, Oh, I'm all alone. Anyway, so his rule was no hitting his little sister. See how I'm just following through? I am not allowing them to control anything. I'm in total control of myself, the situation, the narrative, the process, the behavior board. Then I say, okay, so his he hit his little sister, and so his consequence is empty the dishwasher within 15 minutes. Now you walk over and find him. Remember, walk slow. And then you say, okay, so um you're gonna have to empty the dishwasher within 15 minutes of being asked to do so. And that starts now. Now you walk over to where the dishwasher is, and you just can be washing dishes yourself, okay? Look like you're just doing something incidental, but you've got that timer going where he can see it. You know, those timers, I'm gonna pull this out and show you if you're watching this, but if you're not, you know the ones that are what I call visual timers, like the, you know, that you just turn it on, it looks like a little clock thing, and you just turn it on and it's very visual. It shows when the time's disappearing because the picture gets smaller, right? So um, anyway, whatever that is. So just use a visual timer and you're just there. You're just waiting for the timer to finish in 15 minutes. Don't say another word about that chore. Do not mention it. If you do, he's in charge. He knows it. You're in charge of the timer. That's all you're in charge of, that 15 minutes. Now let's say he does empty the dishwasher, but he does it and he yells while he's doing it. I don't care. Soon as he's done, say, oh, let me see. So you did that. Okay, so all done. Don't say, good boy. Don't praise for that. Don't praise them for the consequence. They did something naughty. Now they replace it with a good deed. You don't need to praise them for that. Just say, oh, okay, well, that was good, and that's it, or whatever. Or that's all done, and that's it. Okay, and then get on with your day. Don't discuss any of this. If you discuss it, it's only because he's pulled you into it. Don't get also pulled into this trap of discussing the whole thing, reliving the whole thing. The mini therapy session, well, you know, if you hadn't hit her in the first place, you wouldn't have had to have emptied the dishwasher, blah, blah, blah. Don't do any of that. It's a huge mistake. Now, let's say he never does empty the dishwasher. The 15-minute timer goes off, you say, or if he is yelling at you, you might say, during the 15 minutes and he's not doing it, you might say, Oh, 10 more minutes, and then maybe one more. Oh, five more minutes. Don't say five more minutes to empty the dishwasher. You're just a timekeeper. That's all you're focused on. As soon as it's done, he hasn't done anything. He might start it as soon as the timer goes off. Say, well, you don't have to do that now because the timer went off. Okay, let's go back to the board. I don't care if he follows you or not. And you say, now let me see. See how I'm talking the whole time? I'm following the process. I'm leading, I'm doing the right thing. He's doing the wrong thing or the right thing. I don't care. I'm doing the right thing. Okay. Then you walk and he's watching you the whole time, by the way. They're not listening as much as they're watching. Now I'm back at the board. And I said, Okay, now let me see now. So your rule was no hitting, and you hit, oh, I'm still alone here because he didn't come with you or if he did, whatever. So then you say, Okay, so the consequence was to empty the dishwasher within 15 minutes, and that wasn't done. He might still be doing it and he's just finishing when you're at the board, even though you said you don't have to do it now because time is up. He comes running over. I emptied it. Say, well, no, it doesn't count because the timer went off and you hadn't done it. Anyway, so your consequence now is 24 hours of no screens. Now you go to the second consequence. See how I followed that whole process? That's how you want to go about any disciplining. You're completely calm. You are in control. You are the leader. Do not let them pull you into any of these useless, ridiculous conversations. I didn't mean it, I forgot, you're mean, I hate you, all that manipulative, controlling stuff. Too many parents get pulled into that. Big mistake. So watch yourself. It's very calm. You look like you're not not so much enjoying it, but it doesn't bother you at all. It's like, yeah, I'm just doing what I gotta do, you know, kind of like that.
Do you find the parents sometimes, let's say the child's yelling at them and they have the timer, and let's say there's 14 minutes left. Could a parent go and go, Well, you know what? I'm gonna change this to 12 now that you're yelling at me.
SPEAKER_00You know my answer to that. I do, but I want you to say it. How ridiculous. Of course not. You you're now you're a liar. Now you're out of control. It's like, oh yeah, you're yelling at me. Look what I'm gonna do to you. Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. You already knew that. Come on. Yeah, now you're afraid of them. You see, that's what it looks like. No, I'm following through. If you did that, you're a liar. You've given them 15 minutes to do it, and now you're a liar if you change it. So now you're a liar, you're not a leader at all. Yeah, I've given the full 15 minutes. I could care less what they do in that 15 minutes. So, what if they continue to hit in that 15 minutes? That would be the next question you're gonna ask, I'm sure. That wasn't, but let's go with that one. Okay. It let's say they continue to hit and everything. I you gotta go physically intervene, obviously. So you go over and you say, Oh, no hitting. Then at that point, this gets a little bit more tricky and parents get thrown off by this stuff because now we're into the exceptions more. So I don't go on about this stuff. But if you've if the rule was no hitting and they hit, now you've gone to the board during that whole process, they run back and they start hitting the little sister again. I would say, oh, you're hitting. I would hold their hand and I would say to them, I'll tell you what. So I'm holding them back from hitting their sister now. And I would just be holding their hand and I would say, I'll tell you what, because you continued to hit your little sister, we were just gonna do the dishwasher, but now we're gonna go straight to the second consequence. So I would do that. Now that's more the exceptions. The reason I don't like talking about that is too many parents want to do that right away. So I don't want you to do that, okay? I want you to follow the process, do the first consequence. But if they really get rowdy and they start doing hurting someone else, like the same thing, they're doing the same thing again. That's when I would say, I'll tell you what, we'll just skip the dishwasher. We're gonna go straight to the other because you continued to hit. And then you just start the timer. Be prepared. The poop is gonna hit the fan. They are gonna have an absolute fit, which means all of a sudden you won and they lost. They're only upset because they lost and you won. Okay. Eventually, there's no winning and losing. They're just gonna be agreeable because they understand there's consequences, and also you get consequences too, right? You're on that board too. But when you're first learning how to do this, oh, they're gonna be mad because they're used to being in charge and they're used to being able to push you around. Now all of a sudden, they can't. And your calmness is the ultimate leadership sign. It's the signal to them that listen, I'm in control of myself because I'm a leader. Soon as you lose it and yell, they're in charge and they know it. They just instinctively do because they've just won. They've they've won, they've they've controlled your emotions. That's what they've just done. Soon as you yell, they're in control.
SPEAKER_01I feel like when you use the phrasing they won, you lost, it feels slightly combative and almost like you're pitting the parent and the child against each other.
SPEAKER_00It is initially, for sure. It is, but as time goes on, it isn't at all. Because you're also accountable. But in that moment, each little war that you win, you're gonna go up in estimation, they'll stop fighting you after a while. But it is, it is definitely combat initially. But you're on there too. But if you've got a really like a challenging kid who's really hitting the little sister, whatever, it is gonna be war for sure. You gotta go through that. You gotta go through the storm to get to the rainbow. It's not like this forever. It's temporary, okay? While you're setting yourself up as a leader, it is a war zone. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Just to clarify, you don't condone any physical like aggression from parents and all of that.
SPEAKER_00Just because when you use the word combat, it feels well. When I say I know you're just covering our butts here, when I say war and combat, you know what I'm talking about. It's emotional.
SPEAKER_01You say that, but there's a lot of I know, I know, I know, I get it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so yeah, it's not physical. It's just that you're just totally in control of yourself. You're following through with the consequences. And initially, it is absolutely it is extremely difficult initially. But once they start understanding that you're calm, because it's your your calmness is what disarms them. It's your calmness is what makes all the difference. You can follow through and do all this, but if you're yelling, you're never gonna get where you want to go. Leaders are very calm, and leaders become you become someone that knows how to make them feel good too. Because once all this is over, the disciplining, once they've calmed down, once they've got media blackout, no screens for 24 hours, as soon as they've calmed down, stopped having the tantrum or whatever, now you connect. Oh, y'all done? Do you want to go play a game or something? No, I hate you, I hate you. Say, okay, never mind. Half hour later, go back again. Ready for that game now? So you're trying to connect. It's the connection which also makes a difference. A lot of parents are just focused on the discipline. Yeah, you got to get it done. And that's what people want to hear about because that is when you're losing your emotions, right? You're getting all out of control. It's during the discipline, not during the happy time. So that's all I ever focus on here, unfortunately. But it's not my focus. My focus is on the connection. But you can't get the connection when they're con when they're constantly disrespecting you. And when they disrespect you, they're also disrespecting themselves. Their self-esteem is very low. When they are being really mean to you, mean to their siblings, their self-respect, their self-de-esteem is very, very low. Okay. Your goal is to make them feel good about themselves. And this is how you do it. But you got to go through that stuff. You got to go through this war, you know, this power play where they think they can control you by saying, I hate you, I hate you, all that stuff. If you allow that to get under your skin, they they'll never
respect you.
SPEAKER_01Now, I can imagine some parents listening going, Well, you know what, that's great if you can maintain that calmness. But my parents raised me with yelling. It's an ingrained automatic response for me to yell back. And this just doesn't feel attainable for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And this is why, you know, a lot of stuff is like that. You know, it's like saying, Well, I can never lose weight because I've always, you know, overeaten. I mean, it's like that. At some point, you want to start changing, right? And this is one of the things that you want to change. And it it's only in your personality because that's how you've functioned in the past. Once you see the better results you can get this way, it gets really easy to change. Okay, whenever I'm talking to clients who really struggle with this, they say, How on earth am I supposed to stay calm when they're hitting me, screaming at me, you know, calling me names? And I said, Well, this is how you get respect, is by maintaining calmness. But once they get it, the kids calm down too. And they said, Wow, if I'd known then how well it was gonna work, I would have done it sooner. So you're after the the results of tomorrow. Today's gonna be difficult. No, no doubt about it. It's gonna be difficult. But it's your calmness, which is your superpower with all this discipline stuff. But I always say you stay calm during the storm and crazy during the rainbows. When you're playing with kids, that's when you let emotions fly. Laughter, goofiness, silliness, play, love is their play, and fun is their love language.
SPEAKER_01I think it's just breaking that generational, you know, if it's just a habit that's happened from generation to generation, that feels very overwhelming.
SPEAKER_00It's your normal. Like I'll I'll admit, I was never yelled at, so it was easier for me. I never saw it as a go-to. It just wasn't something that I'd ever heard, so um made it easier for me. But boy, does this stuff work? I was shocked. I was 11 when I figured all this out. I was volunteering in daycare centers and babysitting at 11 years old. I was really good at handling difficult kids. And they liked me. They followed me around. I made them feel good. I was fun. Okay, but I didn't take any crap from them either. And you know, kids don't like being rotten, like they really don't. And they feel so much better about themselves when they're nice. This is how you treat them, how to be nice. This is how you check how you how you raise them to be nice. My son was in grade two, and his teacher called me on her lunch hour to say, you got to hear what your son said. And she said, I said to him, Why are you so nice? And he just looked up at her. He's grade two, and he says, Mommy, makes us be nice. I thought that was so cute. You're darn right. That's my job. But they were proud of themselves. They weren't just doing it to be dutiful, they were doing it because they had high self-esteem. They had confidence, they were proud of themselves, okay? You're not giving your kids anything to be proud of if they're rowdy and rude, and it's nothing to be proud of. So you want your kids to feel good about themselves when they go out in the world. And this is how you do it.
SPEAKER_01And I'm guessing as well, like you've seen parents who go from yelling become calm leaders. Like you've seen that happen.
SPEAKER_00Oh, time and time again. Well, that's why I teach, right? And they almost all of them say, if I'd known how well it was gonna work, I would have done
it sooner. Like they said, it is hard initially, but they they're just not convinced it's gonna work that well. But they said it's like, but to be honest, they've already learned a lot of other skills along the way so that they've got all this. I always say, I'm gonna fill up your tool belt, your parenting tool belt, so that you'll know how to handle things, right? So I do that, you know, the behavior board is basically that. It's the training wheels with all this stuff. So we get two or three uh behavior boards up on the wall, and then by that time, they've got enough knowledge on how to follow through with stuff so that they don't have to yell. They've got something else to do. I give you other tools to do instead of yelling. You only yell because it does work in the short term, but it will backfire down the road. No one wants to yell at their kids, okay? You only do it because, yeah, it will work in the short term, but in the long term, it will bite you in the butt big time.
SPEAKER_01Okay, was there anything else you want to touch on before we get into the parenting questions? No, I think that's it. Okay, the first one's Dawn from the United States. Daughter is three and a half and very articulate. She doesn't care about consequences. She will say, I don't
care. I didn't want to watch a show anyway, or I didn't want to play with that toy anyway, when that's a consequence for wrong behavior. She will also use adult verbiage on me, the mother. Mummy, I'm so disappointed in you that you don't see I have to finish what I'm doing before I come eat dinner. I have used the phrase, okay, the fun stops until you're ready to cooperate. She just laughs and doesn't care. She'll do wrong behavior, like throw rocks at cars and then say, oops, while laughing. Nothing I say or do matters. I know, be the leader. She doesn't respect you. It doesn't matter what I do, nothing matters to her.
SPEAKER_00You said the fun stops until what was that? The fun stops until you're ready to cooperate. You actually say that to her? She's gonna lose respect for you right away. Such an empty statement. It looks like you're floundering. The fun stops until you're ready to cooperate. No, it doesn't. She's still having fun not cooperating. So it's an empty statement. She's she's actually winning there. Okay, so yeah, she says she doesn't care. I'm suggesting she does care that you take stuff away. So just keep following through calmly. Also connect with her, play with her in her world, but stop the fun. If she does act up, say, oh, I'll tell you what, we'll start again tomorrow. So it might she might do a behavior, start getting like maybe a sore loser, start cheating at games or whatever. So if she's doing something you don't like during a game or connecting with her, say, I'll tell you what, we'll just stop for a while and we'll we'll try again in half an hour. So you want to keep stopping every time she does act out. But if it's something on the board that's a bad behavior, you want to address it every single time. I'm su I'm suggesting she does care. And then you said she uses adult verbiage like I'm disappointed. So who cares? She's just parroting what she's heard from you, by the way. You must have said that to her. So yeah, just ignore that stuff. Who cares what she says? She's just doing anything to manipulate and control you. That and it sounds like it's working. So yeah, she's three and a half. Think about it. She's three and a half. How old are you? Maybe around 30, maybe not, maybe older, maybe younger. But you know what I'm saying? You're giving her way too much credit. She's just parroting what she's seen. She's parroting what she's doing, what's working too. It's obviously bothering you. If she said that to me, she probably wouldn't say it again because I would go, whatever. Like, who cares? I don't care if she says all that stuff to me.
SPEAKER_01This is so interesting. And I want to go more into that idea of the fun stops until you're ready to cooperate. So I'll use an example. And I understand parenting is so different from what I did with I was a gymnastics coach, and so I had the little kids with me. So if let's say they were five years old and they started acting out during class, I would just go, oh, and I just go really quiet and we would stop doing anything fun until they started just like not acting out. Now I'm wondering, how is that different from saying that statement?
SPEAKER_00Because she's still having fun. Like you stop, okay, you're the source of the fun, so you stop yourself. Okay. And plus you didn't say anything. You just said, oh, we'll try again in just a minute. See, you don't go on about it. You just look strong. It's funny because uh you instinctively, you and your brother both sort of instinctively know this stuff because you were raised with this. So it's quite interesting. They both kind of just get this. It's not the big, it's not talking, it's about action. Like it's about just saying, Oh, okay, that was interesting. Oh, we'll just hold off for a minute here. But yeah, you don't go on about you should do this or you should stop hitting or you should do that. Yeah, they should. Or uh I have some parents who'll say, Well, you know, in our house we don't hit. Well, yeah, they do because they are. Like it's those empty statements. It makes you look weak, makes you look like you're floundering. Just say, Oh, but you can stop the fun, you can stop the connection for a minute or so or whatever, a half hour or whatever. You can stop the connection, which is what you do.
SPEAKER_01What are other statements that you think are empty statements the parents rely on? Oh, why would you do that?
Or you're a good girl. Why would you why would you do something bad like that? Or um Yeah. Or how do you feel about how does that make you feel when you do that? Oh, those they're just so they're kind of shaming and blaming at the same time, and they're just so empty. What are they what are you after here? What what are you what's your end game with those statements? You should know better than that. You know, what is your end game? Could you imagine if your boss said that to you, you make a mistake at work? You should know better than that. Why would you do that? It's berating, bullying, shaming, blaming. It's very negative and it makes them, it drags them down. My way doesn't. My way makes them mad, but it doesn't make them feel bad. There's a big difference between the two. I could care less if they're mad at me. I could care less. But if they feel bad about themselves as a result of what I'm doing, like if I was to say, I can't believe you did that. I thought you were a good girl. You see stuff like that, that makes them feel bad. And that, yeah, I would never say something like that to a kid.
SPEAKER_01Get into the next questions. Joanna from the United States. My recently turned two year old is headstrong and defiant. He takes any redirection
as a challenge and any reaction. I give him feeds into it. So for example, ignoring him, he gets louder and more aggressive. I'm trying to regulate my emotions with him, but sometimes it gets too overwhelming. How would you go about a kid who literally does not take no for an answer and everything as a joke?
SPEAKER_00Well, you said the word no as if that has some power. You just say no and then you take action. So it's consistent corrective actions. If they do something bad, you say one word, no. They're not listening to that. It just shows it's just the start of you taking action. So you say nope just to let them know he did something wrong. And then you then you take him away from the fun or the fun away from him for a minute or for five minutes, or you put a toy away for the rest of the day. You're gonna have to judge that. But yeah, and then you said that he's um was can you say the start of that again, what he's doing?
SPEAKER_01Headstrong, defiant, he takes any redirection as a challenge.
SPEAKER_00Oh, there you go. Any redirection is a challenge. Yeah, but you gotta win. You said he takes it as a challenge. I want to remind you, he's two. He's been in the world for two years, and you're giving him all this power. Like that's amazing to have all that power over a grown adult at two years old. I look at them like they're two. I don't look at them like they're 22. They don't have that emotional power over me to control when I know I'm doing the right thing. I follow through because they're tiny. They're brand new, fresh human beings. It's my job to lead them calmly and effectively. And their love language is fun. I'm very good at having fun with little kids because that is play is their love language, fun is their love language. So stay connected, play with them, okay? But when he acts out, you just say nope and you remove him from the fun or him or the fun from him for a minute or so or whatever it takes. Um, let them calm down, then you can just then you just ignore it. Never discuss it. You don't discuss bad behavior, you just deal with it. So it's all about actions. So you said he's every time you try and redirect, when you're redirecting, that's not disciplining. Um, you redirect a baby, you don't redirect a toddler, you correct a toddler. So that's the consistent corrective actions. You can check out my free behavior board, it has a whole mini course on toddlers. Okay, it's completely free. And it explains consistent corrective actions. And that's all done with toddlers, 16 to 35 months.
SPEAKER_01I mean, obviously babies come with their own challenges, but as you're entering toddlerhood, I think that that would be one of the first times you're experiencing that pushback from your children. And I'm sure that can be quite frustrating in the moment.
SPEAKER_00It can be, but also your it's your job to teach them. They're only pushing back because they they think they can. Once they learn, it takes maybe 20 or 50 times because they learn through repetition, right? They don't have a lot of impulse control yet. They learn more through muscle memory. Like a toddler will maybe touch a hot oven. That's not burning them, but it's uncomfortable. They might touch a hot oven 10 times, but then they'll walk up to the 11th time and they won't touch it. There's not a lot of thought that goes into that. It's more just muscle memory. And that's what we're after here with toddlers, okay? So when they're a baby, they're learning right from wrong. Toddlers kind of already instinctively know right from wrong, right? Okay, so now you're correcting it. You're redirecting babies and you're correcting toddlers.
SPEAKER_01Okay, the next one's Danae from the United States. My child has all the stuff she has to sleep with in bed, but it seems like every night she whines
about having certain blankets and toys in certain spots. But instead of telling us how she wants it, she just whines, says, Oh no, and cries. It makes me dread bedtime because it seems like it's always a battle. She's 34 months.
SPEAKER_00Oh, 34 months. She could care less where anything is. She just likes the control. She likes keeping you in there at her mercy. So I would say, Where do you want this? If she doesn't say, I would put it down anyway. Where do you want this? If she won't say, I would put it down anyway. If she starts to scream and cry, I would probably just gently put everything in there that would normally go in and I would leave the room. Let her scream it out. It has nothing to do with where things go at that point. No, she's just enjoying the manipulation. She likes the control. And yet what it's funny because is it enjoyment? Is she having fun? Um, there's a little bit of a power, it hits a different part of the brain. When they're controlling you, even though they look miserable, there's still sort of a part of their brain that knows that they're winning. It's a powerful feeling to control an adult, okay? To be able to, yes, no, there, no, you know, all that. It it hits a different part of the brain where it's kind of a stimulating thing. It's like that adrenaline or something, but they don't they look miserable, but you're still kind of hitting a part of their brain that's sort of uh kind of enjoying it in a way. So yeah, just stop the stop the party. Just say, okay, never mind, put them all in there, however you want, just quickly, and then good night, love you, and then leave the room. Let her scream it out. She'll survive. She's 34 months, she knows what she's doing. 100% at 34 months.
SPEAKER_01When they're so upset at bedtime, though, I feel like that could be really a hard moment for parents because it can feel distressing as they're trying to calm down for sleep. Why? I don't understand that. I'm sure it can be hard for parents to see that. And I sit online.
SPEAKER_00And you've allowed that. You're you're you've fed it. So you've actually trained them to do that. Once they're overtired, you just put them to bed and you say, okay, love you. Good. You've read books to them, you've loved them up. Now it's up to them to learn how to self-soothe and put themselves to sleep. Now, if you co-sleep, you don't do that because you're gonna be in bed with them, you're gonna be soothing them. But this is, I'm assuming you're just gonna put them to bed and they're not gonna be co-sleeping with you. I'm not promoting or anti-co-sleeping at all. I'm just saying it's different. Okay, so you want them to go to sleep. They have to learn how to put themselves to sleep. All you're doing is prolonging it. Okay, it's they're still gonna have to learn how to put themselves to sleep. The sooner they do it, the better. You know she's overtired. That's why she's all upset. She's used to controlling you, she's used to dragging it out. As soon as she realizes she doesn't, she can't do that anymore, she'll just go to sleep.
SPEAKER_01Okay, the next one is Erica from the United States. How do you react when, let's say, an eight-year-old hits sister or brother?
Do you just say that was not a good choice? Now you vacuum the front entrance or vacuum your sister's room within 15 minutes. Then you set a 15-minute timer in the kitchen. If it's not done, then do you take away Legos or no dessert that night? I need more examples of negative consequences since we don't use screen time in our homes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so sorry, he's eight years old and he hits who? Uh, sister or brother, six years old. Oh, six-year-old. Okay, so they're eight years old and they hit a six-year-old. I would want to find out what did the six-year-old do to get hit. Most kids don't hit for no reason. Is the six-year-old interrupting, antagonizing, teasing, um, you know, all that kind of stuff? You want to figure out who starts this, by the way. You might need to give a consequence to both of them. Okay. So that's the first thing you've got to do. Figure it out. You need to know what's going on. Okay, if they're just hitting to be mean, they usually don't, though. They usually don't. Okay. So Can I stop you right now?
SPEAKER_01Can you go through step by step exactly how this interaction would look? Um, you mean how I would find out?
SPEAKER_00How you like let's say the hit just happened. What do you do now? Oh, I would say, Oh, okay, so what happened here? And then I'd say, Okay, I'm gonna give you each two minutes. Um, or no, I initially I wouldn't even do that. I I do the interview after initial thing. I'd say, so what happened here? And then the little, and then the older one will say, Well, she did that. And then I would say to the younger one, did you do that? And they might say, if they say, Well, yes, but and I'd say, I'll tell you what, you started it, but you finished it. Next time, if she looks at you like that and she teases you, then you just come to me and tell me, or just leave, leave the room, okay? But if she comes in and she takes away a toy from you or teases you, um, you let me know and let me deal with it, okay? But because you finished it, you're both gonna get a consequence. So let's say you another option might be you go in, you say, So what happened here? So you hit your little sister. Um, yeah, but she did that. And then she, you can usually tell if they're lying or not, but if not, we'll get into it. So then she'll say, but no, I didn't. I didn't do anything. I just came in the room. Sometimes they'll do that because maybe the day before or that morning the little sister was really driving them nuts. Okay, so it's residual frustration. Or maybe they are just kind of like teasing the little sister. I don't know. Anyway, if you say, Well, look, I'm not too sure what went on there, so let's go in the kitchen. I'm gonna do an interview. So they'll eventually learn about this. I've talked about it a million times. So you go in the kitchen or wherever, go in a different room. So you want to make it a bit of a production, and you get a pad of paper and you split it down the center and you put one name at the top at one side, one name at the top of the other side. And then you say, I'm gonna give you each two minutes to tell me exactly what happened. It's an interview. You don't react to anything they've said other than to say, uh-huh, and then what happened? And then what happened. And you write it down in bullet point for them. And then ding ding, the timer goes up. Okay, now it's your turn. Two minutes, you tell me what happened. Now you slow it, you're slowing it all down now. Now you say, now let me see now. Okay, I'm gonna try and figure out what happened here. Slow it down. You want to bore them with this stuff. And they usually like uh, by the way, the one who comes running to tell their side of the story is usually the innocent one. The guilty one usually doesn't want to do this. So you'll kind of almost know right away who was the guiltier one. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So then you say, now let me see. So you said that, and you said, Well, you can't both be right because otherwise, you know, that it doesn't make any sense. So I'll tell you what, uh, let me just think about this for a few minutes and set a timer, say 10 minutes, then we'll do another interview. And it might be a half hour, whatever. You just set a timer and make sure you see how I use timers all the time. It makes them feel like you know what you're doing, makes you look really official. So, like school, school has the bells, they go off at certain times. It's very official, very predictable, right? Kids like predictable. So, say, I'll tell you what, we'll discuss it again in 10 minutes. So the bell goes off and say, okay, let's do another interview. Now, if they don't come running to do the other interview, then you punish the one who doesn't. And you say, Well, you chose not to come, so I assume you're the one who's lying. And there's nothing wrong with saying lying, okay? They understand that word. Nothing wrong with that. But let's say they both come back and then you do it again. The lie will change, the truth never changes. So here's what you say. Let's say one of them did cause it, or let's say he she didn't cause it at all. He just hit for no reason. Say, look, I've decided she didn't do anything. But yeah, she did say, Well, yeah, but I make the decision here, okay? I'm making the call here. So I'm deciding she didn't do anything. You hit her, so you're gonna get a consequence, okay? So it could be make her bed the next day. If that's one of her chores, chores, he has to do it instead of her doing it. Or if she has to set the table that night, then he sets the table. Um, if he won't do that, then you take something away. Now, if you say to them, look, you know, you shouldn't have hit. You're you're gonna get a consequence regardless, okay, because you hit. But she started it. So the fact that you called him a name or you came in and you interrupted his play, you kicked over his Lego. But I didn't mean it. I didn't say you meant it. You did it, okay? You see how I don't go with intentions, I go with actions. I say, anyway, so you kicked over his Lego, but it was an accident anyway. So you're gonna get a consequence also. And then you just hand them both consequences. That's how it's done. But see how calm I am? I just, it's just something I gotta do. It's not, there's no emotions involved in any of this stuff. If you bring your emotions into this stuff, you're doing it wrong. Okay, should we get into the next question? Oh, goodness gracious, I feel like I've yabbered on forever. Okay.
SPEAKER_01The next one is Annie from the United States. Almost five-year-old plays a game that my husband and I hate, where she's the baby or otherwise
helpless in some way and pretends cry. We do not want to play this game because this crying makes me want to pull my ears off. We've tried flat out saying we don't like that noise, let's all over the volume, or we don't want to play that game and suggest another game, which she really wants to do. We sometimes end up having to walk away, but she continues to want to play this game. How do you recommend that we redirect her and get her to stop wanting to play this game? I know exactly what I'd do.
SPEAKER_00I'd say, okay, last time we played, you were the baby, now I'm gonna be the baby. 100% is exactly what I do. Would I play that up? Oh my goodness, I'd have a riot. Let's see how much she likes the game then. You got to be able to switch roles, right? So say, I'll tell you what, uh, we don't usually like playing this game, but that's because you always get to be the baby. So now mom and dad are gonna be the baby, and you have to look after us. See how it goes then. And just try that the first time, see how it goes. Chances are she won't like that. Um, so say, well, that's it's only fair. You get to be the baby, now we get to the be, and especially if daddy doesn't.
SPEAKER_01I'm just envisioning like 15 minutes into this, it's like a sleep-deprived parent. She's got her hair all up.
SPEAKER_00She's she's yelling, she's yelling. Yeah, I would switch the role for sure. I I wouldn't even uh that I would love that. Anyway, and then if she doesn't like that, say, okay, I'll tell you what, I think we're all too old for this game. So we won't be playing that anymore. Put your foot down, never play it again. And even if it goes well, say, you know what? We actually we're kind of tired of this game. We're we're not gonna be playing this anymore. How about this? So yeah, I would just put my foot down, but I'd not initially, I would switch it first.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a tricky one because you do often talk about the fact that you let the children be in charge of the fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but this isn't fun for you. Like, like what I mean is it's not really fun. She's playing you a little bit because she knows you don't like it. So I think it's a little bit of that um cater to me, cater to me, it's a little bit of that. So I don't think it's so much a game because you're not enjoying it. Fun should be for everybody too. Like you want to find uh something that you can all do that you can kind of enjoy. I think she kind of knows that you don't. Well, she already knows you don't because you've already said it. So there's a little bit of a different element to that one.
SPEAKER_01What if you have parents listening though and they go, Lisa, I hate all the games that my children like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but okay, but that one's really annoying. It's like nails on a chalkboard. Okay, it's a little bit different. And she might actually, I I think she'll probably be annoyed by you doing it. It might backfire, she might actually love it. That's why you might say, I'll tell you what, we don't actually like this game anymore. We're not gonna play it again. So yeah, and and that's a very good question. But this kid's almost five. You can usually find something to do with like my granddaughter. I don't like a lot of what she does, and that I wouldn't do it on my own if I didn't have her, right? So um, but like whenever she's doing anything, I can usually find something I can do. Like if she's if we're doing play-doh, I happen to like rolling out dough, and I'm stuck, like I'm always kind of maybe doing something off to the side on my own too. So then she wants whatever I'm doing too, eventually. But I'm trying to sort of like if she's doing something, I'm often trying to find my find a way I can enjoy it. So I happen to like doing play-doh with her because I'm doing my own stuff off to the side. I'm not just handing her stuff all the time. So yeah, you can usually find a way to make it a little bit less painful, if not enjoyable. She goes, Grandma, can we put it away? And you're like, No. I'm busy. She said that to me yesterday. She goes, No, she goes, can we go do something else? Grandma was getting a little bit too much into making pizza with the play-doh, so she was getting a bit tired of that. Um, but I didn't notice that. I was too busy in my pizza making. But anyway, so yeah, you can usually find something, a way to not find it as painful anyway. But you know what? Here's the thing, too. When your kids are laughing and having fun, there's some level of joy in that. Like, don't you find joy in that? I mean, maybe if they're not playing the baby, but there's usually something that you can find in the moment that you go, wow, you know, isn't this nice? I'm providing them with this happiness. So even that must feel kind of good. It's kind of a feel-good thing. It might be a bit boring at times. I agree. You know, little kids aren't always the most exciting, don't want to do the most exciting things to you. But, you know, usually you can sort of find something to do off to the side. Like even uh my granddaughter's uh playing with her kitchen, she's two, so she's playing in her little kitchen. She has one of those like a etch a sketch. No, it's one of those ones where you draw and it like it's magnetized and it is a drawing, and then you just flip the thing and it erases the screen. I'll be playing with that and I'll say, I'm just drawing pictures of you playing. So I'm literally just drawing on this thing while she's playing in the kitchen and I'm chatting with her the whole time. So I'm kind of doing my own thing. But she doesn't like it when I go on my phone. She knows that that's different. But if I'm still playing with her toys, right? Although I must admit, she usually comes over and takes it off me. So whatever I'm doing, she wants to do. But I usually find a way of sort of mean sort of finding something to do while she's playing, while I'm playing with her, and I'm chatting with her the whole time. And I did the exact same thing with my kids.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we have one final question. So Marjorie from Ireland. Sometimes our almost three-year-old, he will be three in August, is
just in a naughty mood. He wakes up and immediately is trying to order me around, resisting going to the bathroom, brushing teeth, etc. He might be destructive and looking for things to mess up. So, for example, trying to grab my jewelry off of my bedside table. I've gotten much better at staying calm and trying to be the leader in these situations. I find it's a great area as he's smart and does subtle things to push my limits when he knows he's in these moods. Since he's not a three-year-old yet, I find it hard to know what to do as I can't give him a consequence yet. Because the behavior is subtle. I would struggle to know where to put it on a behavior board when we st when he we start, when he's three. Any advice?
SPEAKER_00This one's a tough one because I got a million different ideas. Um, okay. You said he wakes up in a bad mood. Some people wake up slower than others, even as adults. Okay. I'm one of those I spring out of bed in a good mood. I'm annoying in the morning. Um, but most people don't, or if you're a morning person, you do. So a lot of kids are like that. They say it's hardwired. I was like this as a kid. I sprung out of bed with my dad at 5 a.m. every morning. I loved it. So, um, but then I'm sure a lot of kids wouldn't. So maybe he just wakes up on the wrong side. Have something else to do instead. You could have something where it's just a book. There's a special book that you read with him every single morning, and you say, Okay, it's time to read the hungry caterpillar or whatever book. I don't know. Um, so time to read that, and you can have like a transition thing. So it eases him into the day. Okay. Now, why is he grabbing your jewelry on a bedside table? Why is he in your room? I don't understand why he has access to that. So you want to keep him contained where he can't get into a lot of stuff and say, oh, we're gonna be reading this now. And so he's in a really bad mood, and you want to just look like, oh, you're very calm. This is what we're doing right now. If he runs around, tries to get into stuff, you just say no, and you pull him away from that, and then you can go over and start reading this little book or whatever. You want to get him used to waking up and having a transition time. So it's reading a book that he only sees at that time. It could even be something like this, and some parents argue with me on this. I don't have a problem with this. It could literally be him watching videos of him from the day before. Um, you could take little videos of him and just say, Oh, do you want to see what you did last night? Do you want to hear see what you did yesterday? Could just be a 20-second video. It'll start, it'll just start his brain off a little bit differently. They love watching videos of themselves, okay? So it could just be a good start. It's it's basically controlling the energy. So you just have a transition. This is the transition. Do you want to see the video from last night? He'll learn that if he acts up, he ain't gonna see it. Okay. So you can sit down, we'll read a book, and then I'll show you the video. And now you've got him in a more positive mode. That's the idea. You can start with that. I got too many other ideas, but anyway, you can start with that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, that was it for the questions.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so it's how to master a calm exterior. I would say the only thing that I could say to you is it it's it's worth it. So just trust in the process that if you can't master yourself, how can you expect your kids to master themselves? This is another thing that I find fascinating too. People expect so much from their kids and yet so little from themselves. Well, I can't control it because he drives me nuts. Well, they're two, and you're upset that they can't control themselves, but you're you're saying you're asking too much of me to control myself. Think about it. Who's the adult here? They're little, they're just kids, and yet you're expecting them to control themselves. They will start to be able to control themselves once they have a calm leader. That is what calms them down. That's what makes them feel safe. Okay. A calm leader makes them feel safe. When they feel safe, they tend to calm down.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a great place to end. But right before we do, if you want to see more examples where my mom maybe goes a little bit more into like
the acting, let us know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the thing is you'd have to watch it on YouTube. I go into this a lot in coaching. I do a lot of acting, I make a fool out of myself, but um, it's really important. But that would have to be on YouTube. So let us know, and we'll do more like that.
SPEAKER_01We tried to do like a short video of this where my mom used one of my stuffed animals growing up to show how to handle a situation, but she put that stuffed animal like on its back and it looked like the animal had just passed away. Did we ever film that and put it out there?
SPEAKER_00I never, I never put it out, but it was like she didn't like it because it looked like I was massacred the stuffed one. It was like, Mom, this does not look great. It didn't look good. Yeah, anyway, we'll have to figure something out. You know what I've even thought we should do is maybe get a doll, something where I could like hold a child and and you know, hold a doll and maybe show, you know, how you handle this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So let us know what you would like.
SPEAKER_00Let us know what you want. You know, I'm happy to do any of that, but it is it is very visual how you how you look when you're talking to kids when they're acting out, and even with your playing with them. You know, a lot I do a lot of silly stuff with kids to get their attention. I know how to get a toddler's attention. I know how to get kids' attention, I know how to switch the energy fast. Okay, but that's all visual stuff. Okay, I think that's a great place to end. Okay, thanks so much for joining us. Back again soon, talking about another parenting topic. Happy parenting.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out Bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses, and private one-on-one coaching with Lisa. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if you could take a moment to follow, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more parents just like you. The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. Lisa is a parenting coach, mom, and grandmother. She is not a licensed psychologist or counselor. Her services do not replace the care of psychologists or other healthcare professionals. For a full disclaimer, please visit Bratbusters.com forward slash disclaimer.