I've never been hired by a bad parent, not once, not ever. You're just a parent that needs more information. How do I get my four-year-old to stop being such a punk? He cries, whines, yells, and screeches and tattles on his little brother, who's two and a half.
SPEAKER_01As soon as you enter the mess, the emotional mess that when they're mad and they're tantruming and all that, you're now both on the low road, and that ladder to the high road has been kicked out. You can't get back up there. Welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode we'll dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie pie, what are we talking about today? Today we're covering three common reasons that keep children from calming down. Oh. I will I will feed them to you because it's just stuff that you've said in the past.
SPEAKER_01So I wouldn't even know where to start, but I'm sure I'll know where to finish. So once I get revved up.
So I want to set the scene. Let's say you've said no to something, your child's mad at you, they're angry. And the first reason is you show anger, frustration, or disappointment right back at them.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you feed it, you keep the engine running. Yeah, I I don't. Um, yeah. I stay on the high road and I never go down to the low road where they are. They will eventually join you because they're watching you. Okay. So if you join them and start talking to them while they're going crazy, they're gonna keep, they're just gonna stay at that level. You wanna stay on the calm road. I'll give you a really good example of this. My dad was a pleaser and my mom was a leader. Anyway, I remember I was really little, and if I was upset about something, my dad would do this. Oh, what, sweetie pie? Okay, can daddy help? Can daddy? And I'd get worse and worse and worse. So it was something no big deal, right? So I was just complaining about something. This is something that's not a big deal. So my mom, my mom would have been listening uh to this from the other room. She would come in and she'd say, What's going on in here? And then I'd say, Well, so and then she'd say, You'll survive. And I instantly calmed right down. My mom was a problem solver. She might say, Come on, you'll survive, let's go figure it out. And she would sort of take charge. Whereas my dad would keep feeding it and feeding it and feeding it, thinking he was being really kind, which he was. He was a sweetheart. But really, what he was doing was he was coming down to the low road with me. She was on the high road, she invited me up, and then we'd sit and talk about it. And I'd figure out, she always said to me, because I'd say, Well, this is my problem. And she'd say, Well, and I'd say, What should I do? And she would say, Oh, I don't know. You're a big girl, you can figure it out. You're a smart girl, you can figure it out. And then we'd talk about it. I always thought I was solving all my own problems, but she was feeding me some ideas. But yeah, she was very calming. She was had that real take charge kind of, come on, everything's figure outable. Whereas my dad was more, aw, do you want to hug? And I'd just get worse and worse and worse. He was a sweetie pie, but it wasn't helping.
SPEAKER_00I think that's the important part though, is that you when you said that in the past, it's people are like, oh, isn't that dismissive? But isn't what dismissive? The way your mom handles that, where she goes, you'll like, do you want to go do something else?
SPEAKER_01Like kind of Yeah, she said, and if it was something, if I was just going on about nothing, she'd say, You'll survive. Come on, let's go bake a cake or let's go. Like, she was very nonchalant about it. If I had a problem, my dad, I never wanted to go to my mom. I always wanted to go to my I mean, I mean, I never wanted to go to my dad, I always wanted to go to my mom. She made everything seem fixable, she made everything seem doable. She made me, she empowered me. My dad just sort of, I went, he went down the low road with me and we went down together. It was a sinking ship, whereas my mom was the life raft. Does that make it sound? And she was, gosh, she was funny too. She just had a way of making everything seem light, like it's not that big a deal. Um, but yeah. And so she made me into a problem solver.
SPEAKER_00But I think the distinction there is that you had already solved the problem together or you'd already like dealt with it.
SPEAKER_01If it was a real problem, she'd say, Come on, let's go figure it out then. Like she didn't want me just whining about it, right? Like, she'd say, Well, come on, what's going on? Come on, I can't even understand you. Come on, because uh and then it says, Take a breath and then we'll figure it out. I wasn't, I never had a tantrum. This isn't a tantrum, okay? This is just me getting upset over something. But um, so then she'd say, Come on, just wait, I'll wait here. I'm right here when you're ready to talk about it. That was the way she handled it, and that was the way I handled my kids too. It's a very calming, it makes you feel like everything's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00It does. I can I can attest to that. Is that because especially you can catastrophize things quite easily, especially when you're younger, and so and if you go down the road with like I said, it's a sinking ship.
SPEAKER_01If you get on there with them, who's gonna rescue you? My mom was the life raft, she would come in and she'd solve all the problems. Okay, I'm gonna go into By the way, my dad looked relieved when she came in the room too. Oh, thank God, someone knows how to handle this. Oh, geez, you thought I was trying, Lil, you know, okay, Phil, I'll take over. Their names were Lil and Phil. Isn't that cute?
That is.
SPEAKER_00Now, the second reason is relying on redirection or diversion for toddlers.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Past the age of about 16 months, well, there's they're toddlers when they're 16 to 35 months. So when they're babies, you use redirection or distraction if they're really upset about something. Like, but there's a difference between being upset about something and be and having a tantrum, okay? Being upset means that something's upset them and they're really hurt or whatever. It might not be something they've done wrong. That's different. So, what are we talking about here?
SPEAKER_00So, uh what I'm getting at here is the idea of the child not calming down. This is more long-term. Is that if you're constantly relying on that redirection or diversion for toddlers, is that oh, I see.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so with a toddler, let's say they're upset. They're they're the types that have that heightened emotions all the time, right? So you want to say, okay, so I see you're upset. Let's go play a game. While you're playing a game, that's when information comes out. You you actually change the subject, but you're with them and you're doing something calming. That's when they'll start to tell you everything. You don't tend to do the the interview so much with a toddler. Like you don't tend to try and drag information out of them. They will start to tell you stuff when you're playing something calm. Once they've calmed down, it feels safer for them to calmly tell you what's upsetting them. Or it might just go away anyway because all of a sudden they feel good, right?
SPEAKER_00Okay, what I was referring to with this, because again, this is me gathering your thoughts and putting them down here, is more if a child is having a tantrum and you rely on that redirection. From your perspective in the past, you've talked about how that can sometimes fuel that behavior in the future.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you mean if we're talking about tantrums? Yeah. Okay, tantrums. Okay, so tantrums are a little bit different. I was just talking about if they're just highly emotional children and just tend to go down that sad path. That's a little bit different.
SPEAKER_00But I'm glad that you made that distinction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So if they're having a tantrum and you're using redirection past the age of about 16 months, you're rewarding it. That's basically what it's doing. But with babies, you do it anyway. But when they're 16 months, you want to start teaching them that there's never going to be any attention given to a tantrum. You're not even going to get involved in it. Okay. And even when you're redirecting a tantrum, um, when they're babies, you're not inviting them so much. You just go sit over and start playing with their blocks or something and they'll come and join you. You're doing you're doing indirect redirection usually. So you're not even really asking them to come play. They'll just crawl over whatever and they'll play whatever you're doing. That's the idea. And they can crawl into your lap. Um, but yeah, by the time they're toddlers, 16, 17, 18 months old, and they start, they start getting angry and having tantrums. Yeah, you don't need to redirect that. You just let them let them figure it out all by themselves and they will. This is the thing. Parents don't trust that they ever will. But if you've been feeding tantrums in the past, it's gonna be harder to do. They're gonna get worse before they get better because they remember the old you. They remember the fact that you used to go down the low road with them. You used to feed those tantrums, so they're gonna try and get that power back. If you've never done it and they just start having tantrums and you do it effectively, the sooner, the sooner you do this, the sooner they're gonna stop having tantrums. But if you've been feeding them in the past, they're usually gonna get worse before they get better.
SPEAKER_00And
again, all of these are just from your perspective. But the third one is over-explaining bad behavior.
SPEAKER_01Okay, they already understand bad behavior. If you told it to them once, they know they shouldn't hit the cat or throw a toy at someone by the time they're like one and a half to two. They already understand that. Parents seem to think that that continually discussing it so they will understand it will stop them from doing bad behavior. That is ludicrous. We all know we shouldn't speed. Do we sometimes speed? Do we do everything perfectly even though we know we should? Think about it. It's not the understanding that that it that has makes the difference. It's the the control, the self-control is what makes the difference, okay? It's that impulse stuff. That is what made it because it's we're all accountable. That's why we don't always want to maybe pay our taxes on time. We know we should. We understand that we should, but what if there was no penalty? Would you pay your taxes every single year exactly on time? If there was no penalty, you understand that you should, but does that make you do it? Or is it is it the penalty? Think about it. We all work on consequences, right? All of us. That life is that. If you don't pay your rent, you get kicked out. Let's say they said, well, you can live there for free, but we'd rather you pay rent. We want you to understand that you we've got bills, we need to pay, you know, we're the landlord, we own this property. And we want you, and they keep trying to explain why you should, but there's no penalty for never paying rent. You see, why do you expect your kids to do something for nothing, like to have no consequences? You you keep trying to get them to understand everything. They already do. It's the lack of consequences is the problem. It's the lack of consistent consequences, is why they keep doing it. You know, all this mini therapy session discussing all their all their behavior, bad behavior, it's absolute crap. Pass the pass the first no. They know the first no. Now they understand. So it's not a lack of understanding, it's a lack of impulse control. And that is controlled by consequences.
SPEAKER_00Okay, would you like to get into the parenting questions? Oh, geez. Didn't we already? I feel like I've been going on forever. Okay. Sure. Okay, we have Haley from Australia. I'm writing to ask how I can tell if my leadership is actually working. I heard you say on a podcast that you'll
know your leadership is working when life is easier and you're having more fun than bad times. That really stuck with me, but I'm struggling to know what success realistically looks like. Two children, almost two and almost four. My four-year-old can be incredibly thoughtful and kind. For example, he cleaned his room as a surprise, he cleaned my room as a surprise, but in the very same day, he might hit or kick me during a tantrum. Most of his tantrums happen after he receives his second deprivation consequence because he didn't complete the first positive action. We have a behavior board and everyone in the family is held accountable, including me. In fact, my son takes great pleasure in reminding me when I've made a mistake and need to follow through. My question is, am I expecting too much? Should I be aiming for my children to stop misbehaving altogether as evidence that my leadership is working, or is that unrealistic?
SPEAKER_01No, that's what you want. There was no way they would hit a leader. They just wouldn't. They don't talk back to a leader either. So you're just not there yet. Just keep doing what you're doing. Um, you said something. What was it? He's four years old. Oh, sugar, I forgot. Can you just read the first part again?
SPEAKER_00Uh life is easier when you're having more fun times.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, wait a minute, wait a minute. I know what it was. Um, you said more good times than bad times. No, the bad times just kind of stop. That it just does. You'll know you're there when if they do something wrong, you get eye contact with them and then they go, Oh, I'll tell you what, how about if I just empty the dishwasher? They'll literally stop themselves and then offer up the consequence. That's when you know you're there. And then they'll just stop doing stuff. And when they do something naughty, it's never anything horrible anyway. Literally, the bad behavior will stop. That's how you know you're a leader. It just does. Why there's no point being bad when you got a leader for a parent. It just it's kind of embarrassing. And they their self-esteem, once their self-esteem and esteem increases, they tend to, it brings out the best in them. Okay. So, because when you feel good, you do good. When you feel bad, you do bad. When they're acting out, it says they still feel bad and they never feel bad under a leader as a rule. That's that's what you're aiming for. You're just not there yet. Just keep going. Keep going. It takes about three to six months, by the way, to of this calm, consistent leadership, um, but to really change things around. Because you've got history with your kids. It would take me maybe a day. Um, but I'm level 10 and I don't have history with your kids. Okay. So, but to get to level 10 and to erase the history, it's three to six months, depending on the age.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll get into the next question. So, Livy from the United States, how do I get my four-year-old to stop being such a punk? He cries,
whines, yells, and screeches and tattles on his little brother, who's two and a half. I can't always be there to stop them from fighting because I'm busy doing house things, but I play with them first, like you say, and then set them up. But I know the two-year-old's always antagonizing him, such as knocking down his towers. They both like to grab each other's toy. It's usually when the two-year-old starts it. I've kept the two-year-old with me separately, but he screams and cries and he wants to play with his brother. I'll give the two-year-old something to do when the four-year-old still wants to play with him, and I say sure, and they can share, but the two-year-old will scream at him, and then he's afraid that the four-year-old will take the toy. Cycle goes on. Okay.
SPEAKER_01This has come up several times before. Now you got a four-year-old and a younger one. It's usually the younger one causing the problems, by the way, uh, which you already said it was. So what you do is you say to the four-year-old, if you're playing with your little brother or little sister, whatever, um, understand that they might wreck a tower. If you want uninterrupted play, here's your safe place. You can play on the dining room table, I'll lock him out. You can go play in your room, or you can go play in my room. You got to give him a safe place to play alone. Then he'll have more tolerance to play with the little one when he does, okay? So you've got to manage that. Give him a safe place to play uninterrupted. That's only fair. If he builds, if some if I built a tower, like I love Magnetile, if I built a Magnetile and some kid came along and wrecked it, I'd be upset too. I might have a tantrum too. So, okay, I don't tantrum, but I might cry a little. So yeah, you've got to give him a safe place to play. But then when he does choose to play around the two-year-old, the condition is he has to accept the fact that the two-year-old might wreck stuff. And then you watch the two-year-old. Whenever he does wreck something, you come in and you can you use consistent corrective action with a two-year-old because you also want to stop that behavior too. But give the four-year-old a safe place to play. Uninterrupted.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we have one final question. So, Carly from the United States, I have a four-year-old boy who is very much out of control. He lacks any respect
for my instructions or rules that I attempt to give him. He screams at me every time he opens his mouth to talk when I ask him to do something as simple as to pick up a mess that he made. He will scream, run away, hit me, and basically drive me to the point where I just need to do it to end it. So I give up and let him do whatever. I know this is my doing and I'm lacking in parenting, obviously. I feel I've created a monster. How can I get us on a healthy path? Is this a lost cause, or how can I implement new boundaries or discipline that will help get me back into control? I feel like I'm a worthless mom and I failed him. If I say no, he screams, tells me now, now, give it to me now, and goes on a full-blown rampage until I've finally gotten to the point of implosion just to give in and make the screaming stop.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Start small. Um, you start with a free behavior board, okay? And just start small one step at a time and you put something like this on the board. Because you said I ask him to clean up his mess. It's too general. It's too, it's not organized. So put on the board, pick up 10 toys within 10 minutes of being asked to do so. Start with something like that. So we're not dealing with bad behavior. We're trying to get him to do something good, okay? So put that down on the board, pick up 10, or you can just put five five toys, pick up five toys within five minutes of being asked to do so. You stand there with a timer, you do not discuss the toys or the he already understands how to pick up five toys and put them away. Lego was one toy, by the way. So you say, okay, pick up five toys within five minutes and it starts now. Do not discuss it. All you're doing, and you the only thing that you will talk to him about is when he says, but I hate you, I'm not doing it. Say, oop, three more minutes. All you are is a timekeeper. If he doesn't do that, then you the five minutes is up. You say, okay, let's go to the board, then you go to the second consequence. Check out the free behavior board. It's on my website, bratbusters.com. It'll explain how to do this. You just start small, one step at a time. By the way, a bad parent, a worthless parent, as you called yourself, uh, never never searches out help. So you're not a bad parent. I always say to uh clients whenever they they say, Oh, I just feel horrible about myself and so awful. I said, I've never been hired by a bad parent, not once, not ever. You're just a parent that needs more information, that's all. So yeah, just start with the free behavior board one step at a time. Try to get him to pick up five toys. Don't worry if he doesn't, you go to the board and then you do the second consequence. His choice, he's gonna get worse before he gets better, because all of a sudden, all of his tactics are not gonna work as well anymore. He's gonna try and fight you for control, but it's worth it. You got to go through the pain right now to get the gain later on. Remember, I always say if you want that rainbow, you got to go through the storm first. And right now you got a storm coming, but it's worth going through.
SPEAKER_00I think that's such a nice sentiment, too. It's because I'm sure if you're struggling with this, is that it it feels like you don't even know where to start.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and like I said, so many of my clients uh start the first session, they'll start crying. I'm just a horrible, horrible parent, dads too, by the way. Horrible, horrible parent. And I say, well, what horrible parent would ever hire a parenting coach? What horrible parent would search out help and information, right? It's the parents who don't care. They're they're the ones that I'm not saying they're horrible, but you know what I mean. Um, so yeah, you're a good parent. You just need more information. That's what I'm here for. Okay, check out the free behavior board. It's completely free. It's laid out, it's two mini courses. It's got uh one for toddlers, one for three and above, which is the behavior board. Check it out, it's completely free. If you want more, you might want to go to the course. If you're really struggling, the course uh three to 12 year old one might be appropriate.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, that was it for the questions.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I think that's it. So it's three reasons kids don't calm down. I forgot what all the reasons were, but I think we've covered all that, didn't we? You you did
cover it in the beginning, so. Oh, okay, good. Okay, and then um, yeah, they will calm down by your leadership. You're not you're not calming them down, you're calming yourself down. And you lead, they will follow. You stay on that high road, they will join you, okay? As soon as you enter the mess, the emotional mess, that when they're mad and they're tantruming and all that, you're now both on the low road, and that ladder to the high road has been kicked out. You can't get back up there. Just stay on the high road, keep inviting them up, and they will eventually join you. It's just human nature. They're children, they need, crave, and want a leader. They may fight it initially, but eventually they will give in because it brings out the best in them and they're the happiest when they're with a leader. Okay, thanks so much for joining.
SPEAKER_00Actually, before you stop, I think that was the big distinction is I think a lot of parents might come into this episode thinking, okay, what are three things that I can make sure to change about my child so that they calm down?
SPEAKER_01That's such a good point because parents always say, How do I fix my kid? I said, I don't do that. I fix myself. You fix yourself. I'm teaching you, I'm teaching you how to be a leader. I've got respect with all the kids and teenagers I've ever worked with. So it was all about me. It was never them. The common denominator was me, not them. Okay, and all those kids had behavioral issues, right? They're I called them alphabet kids. They had ADHD, W XYZ, whatever. They were all challenges, but I knew how to handle them because I was a calm leader. That's it. You handle yourself and they will learn how to handle themselves.
SPEAKER_00That's that's the gold. Oh, geez, I was gonna try and do an analogy, but I just don't even think I'll try.
SPEAKER_01Don't ask me. We're not good at analogies. It runs in the family.
SPEAKER_00I was going to say, it's like if you try and learn how to make sourdough and then your sourdough doesn't turn out, it's like, do you blame the sourdough? That's not bad.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. That wasn't a bad one. Uh yeah, I've come up with some pretty horrendous in coaching. I'll say, oh, what's a good analogy? I actually had a client who said, please, no, not another analogy.
SPEAKER_00Now I know it's easier said than done because I do not have children at this point, but I do think that this can apply to so many areas in life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it can. Um, but you know, the only thing that you ever really have control over is yourself. And what I'm teaching is parenting. I'm not teaching kidding or teenagers or toddlering. They will follow you. They instinctively will follow a leader. Teenagers, not so much, it's a little bit different, uh, but you can still, it's a whole other thing. But uh yeah, they will instinctively follow a leader because a leader makes them feel great about themselves. And that's the goal. It's not about discipline. Discipline is something you gotta do, but it's really more about connection.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I think that's a great place to end.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Okay, thanks so much. Back again soon talking about another parenting topic. Happy parenting.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out Bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses, and private one-on-one coaching with Lisa. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if you could take a moment to follow, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more parents just like you. The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. Lisa is a parenting coach, mom, and grandmother. She is not a licensed psychologist or counselor. Her services do not replace the care of psychologists or other healthcare professionals. For a full disclaimer, please visit Bratbusters.com forward slash disclaimer.