Pittman and Friends Podcast
Welcome to Pittman and Friends, the curiously probing, sometimes awkward, but always revealing conversations between your host, Anne Arundel County Executive Steuart Pittman - that’s me - and whatever brave and willing public servant, community leader, or elected official I can find who has something to say that you should hear.
This podcast is provided as a public service of Anne Arundel County Government, so don’t expect me to get all partisan here. This is about the age-old art of government - of, by, and for the people.
Pittman and Friends Podcast
Farming and Food with Secretary Kevin Atticks
Ever wondered what happens when your food leaves the farm? Kevin Atticks, Maryland's Secretary of Agriculture, takes us behind the scenes of our food system with a fresh perspective that might change how you think about farming forever.
Unlike his predecessors who typically came from traditional farming backgrounds, Atticks brings expertise in value-added agriculture—helping farmers transform their raw products into profitable goods like locally-distilled whiskey or farm-fresh ice cream. This innovative approach could be the key to saving Maryland's family farms for generations to come.
The conversation reveals surprising connections between agriculture and everyday life. Did you know the Department of Agriculture regulates everything from gas pumps to grocery store scales? Or that we're now "four generations away from knowing a farmer"—creating a dangerous knowledge gap about where our food comes from?
Atticks shares compelling visions for reconnecting communities with agriculture through innovative education programs where students help process local food for school lunches. He details plans for a Regional Agricultural Center in Anne Arundel County that could provide centralized processing facilities—allowing more farmers to create value-added products without navigating complex regulations individually.
Modern farmers face unprecedented challenges: market uncertainties from shifting trade policies, competition for land from solar developers, and regulatory hurdles that can make innovation nearly impossible. But his practical solutions offer hope through creativity and collaboration.
Whether you're a farmer seeking new revenue streams, a policy maker concerned about food security, or simply someone who enjoys knowing where your food comes from, this conversation offers valuable insights into the future of Maryland agriculture. Listen and discover how supporting local food systems benefits everyone—from field to table.
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Al right, welcome everybody. I'm with a true friend this time, and his name is Kevin Atticks and he is the Maryland Secretary of Agriculture.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Welcome.
Secretary Atticks:Thank you very much. A true friend, a true friend. I like it yeah.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Well, we've been friends for a little while.
Secretary Atticks:Yes.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, since before you were in this job.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yes, Secretary of Agriculture. You got a big job, a hard job. First, just tell us what the scope is of the work of the Maryland Department of Agriculture.
Secretary Atticks:So that is a great. I know it's a great question, because I think agriculture means something to some people and not much to others. And so when you think about what agriculture is, yes, it's farmers. So we regulate the farming industry. On the other hand, we promote the farming industry, and then there's all the other.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:I'll just say farmers far prefer being promoted than regulated.
Secretary Atticks:Well, of course they do, yeah, but a lot of times we have to regulate them to promote them right, to make sure they're promotable, al right.
Secretary Atticks:But then there's all the other things that the agency does that way. Back in the beginning, times were related to agriculture, and they got put in our department. For example, inspecting seeds and inspecting turf grass, and weights and measures, so every scale that measures your chicken salad in the grocery store. We regulate the flow of gasoline at gas pumps. We regulate because farmers had to distribute their products, and we were some of the first ones that had vehicles, you know, is horsepower.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So now you do all vehicles. That's funny.
Secretary Atticks:We do, and we're about to start regulating EV chargers, which comes out of regulating fuel pumps.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:That is nuts, whatever.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So when I think of agriculture I think of farms and I know you do too. And I will just say that for listeners who don't know I think most of them do that I was making my living on the farm, mostly training horses. But, we also grew hay and some things, and before I was doing that farm and the family was doing beef cattle. Before that, it was tobacco. Before the buyout, and all of that down in southern Anne Arundel County, and so I have an affinity for the difficulty of being a farmer, for the work, and a love-hate relationship with the Department of Agriculture and government in general.
Secretary Atticks:No doubt, the struggle is real.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:The struggle is real, yeah. So why don't you first tell us how you came to this job? Obviously, you were appointed by the governor, but why do you think you were chosen?
Secretary Atticks:Well, I would say I might be seen by many as a unique choice because typically it is a farmer, and one who farms commodity crops has been the traditional agriculture secretary, a grain farmer.
Secretary Atticks:And in this case, I came from the ag policy side. So trying to make things better from a business environment standpoint for specifically value-added agriculture. So not necessarily just the grain growers, but the whiskey producers who make whiskey from Maryland grain, and very often the grain grower who decides to value-add their product into whiskey to make more money off their farm. So that was my kind of area of expertise.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And I will just say that's how I met you. Yes, I guess I was the President of the Maryland Horse Council. You were the manager of a number of groups of agricultural groups, but your focus, your organization, was called Grow and Fortify and the focus was value-added agricultural activities. Things you can do on the farm to turn the farm product into something that has more value, to be able to actually make farming profitable, which is what farming is about is more value.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, and you were also the guy who was always sort of the expert on local policy, often at the county level as well as state policy, but for things like agritourism and activities that nobody knew how to regulate and zone. But for things like agritourism and activities that nobody knew how to regulate and zone for, and things like that, and so we all turned to you and Grow and Fortify, for advice and sometimes advocacy.
Secretary Atticks:Yes, and we had Horse Day in Annapolis to try to spread the word around the industry.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:We hired you to coordinate that.
Secretary Atticks:Yeah, I mean. The issue with agriculture in the state of Maryland is, if all you're doing is growing it, it's pretty clear what and where you can do. Agricultural areas, agricultural zones, rural areas you're going to be able to grow stuff, but anything else it gets complicated. If I want to grow food in the city, it may not be allowed. If I want to have a commercial chicken operation to grow eggs in the city or in a suburb, probably not allowed. And then it gets really complicated if you want to take milk from a cow, turn it into ice cream and sell that ice cream at an ice cream parlor on your farm.
Secretary Atticks:I mean that is really complicated for the Health department, for the Environment department for local county zoning. Well, no, because I think doing to the environment how cars parking on grass at your creamery may or may not cause runoff or hurt runoff or be, an impervious surface stormwater runoff. So there's all of these new regulations that probably were not built with farming in mind, but when you apply it to farming. Man, it's complicated.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And actually I will say that's what got me interested in local politics. I was a community organizer back in the day. But then, as a farmer, we first as the Horse Council and then as a member of the Farm Bureau Board, we decided that it was insane that you had to get the same kind of a building permit to build a barn, a stick barn, with Amish crew coming in with a kid or whatever, as you did for a 7-Eleven or another kind of a commercial entity. And so we ended up getting legislation, with your help, through the county council, to allow the soil conservation district to just certify that it was part of the farm plan, and it simplified things a lot, and good for farm businesses so, which is huge.
Secretary Atticks:But you know in the scheme of things that that was a little minor change that had to be made, but the impact that has on a farm is potentially farm saving right, family saving right, because you know, I was on a grain farm yesterday and there were four generations standing in front of me and grandpa did it his way and his son, the dad, did it pretty much the same way. And then, as they walked away, I turned to the kids and I said, "so what are you going to do? What are you thinking? And they just kind of looked at me and said Well, I guess we're going to try and do what we've always done. And I started throwing out ideas like what about all these other things?
Secretary Atticks:You're right on a main tourism road and there are tourism, agritourism, opportunities popping up around you. Come in and meet with me and let's talk about some alternatives, because I just heard your grandfather complaining about how things are so tough. And I just heard your grandfather complaining about how things are so tough and I just heard your dad complaining about how it's so tough. But if you can find a way to find a new market, to play the game a bit rather than just and I know there are investments. They've got millions of dollars of equipment and they've built purpose-built facilities to store grain, et cetera, et cetera. But there are some minor tweaks. You can do some potentially new crops that deer don't like that you could raise your revenue.
Secretary Atticks:There's deer everywhere. There's deer everywhere, but they don't like certain things for which there's a market. Why aren't we growing more of those things in addition to managing the deer?
County Executive Steuart Pittman:n, it is interesting because you said that a lot of these regulations didn't take place before and I've always thought of it as, yeah, especially farming in a kind of suburban county like ours. Where there's a lot of regulation because there are a lot of people and it's built for the urban and suburban areas in particular, you can get by with a little less government when there aren't as many people in rural areas but, on the other hand, so you help them get through that, navigate the regulation. But there are advantages to being in an area with a lot of people when you're running a farm.
Secretary Atticks:It's called the market.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, yeah. So in Anne, Arundel County, as you know, I think in most counties, but particularly here we've always had in our general development plan that we want to protect our open space, our farms, our agricultural areas, our farms, our agricultural areas. And part of our plan even says that farming has to be commercially viable so that people will keep their farms.
Secretary Atticks:That's wildly innovative, by the way, because in most cases, counties are still grappling with the concept that a farmer is a commercial enterprise. And because to them a hairdresser is a commercial enterprise, an auto shop is a commercial enterprise. A CPA is a commercial enterprise, and because to them a hairdresser is a commercial enterprise, an auto shop is a commercial enterprise, a CPA is a commercial enterprise.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And so is a farm, right?
Secretary Atticks:Well, since when have farms not been transactionally commercial enterprises? Right, this isn't a hobby, and they're not just looking at silos of grain. They're marketing it. They're selling it. Some of these farmers are, many of these farmers, just about every farmer that I've talked to is the smartest business person ever, because they're cutting deals with buyers in other countries and they know down to the penny what things cost. I'm not sure I know down to the penny what some of my expenses cost, but to be able to give them the opportunity to think a little bit different, to grow the food that we eat.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:It's pretty incredible. Yeah, yeah. I remember when COVID came along and the supply chains were broken and for a while it was hard to get meat and things. There was a run on eggs, toilet paper, also an agricultural product.
Secretary Atticks:Forestry, yeah. Right. Industry, yeah. Right. Like all of these things choked up because either they weren't making it, or they weren't able to get the inputs to make it, or the distributor, the trucks, everybody had COVID, yeah, the plants shut down, you know. Yeah, meat was your example in that that got a lot of people thinking about the food system.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Good. Well, it got me thinking too, and I wasn't able to do everything that I thought up. But I remember going with my kids through a list of the things that maybe the government could do to help people turn, say in Davidsonville, where we have a lot of huge lawns because they zone for 20 acres, and they're not farms. But for turning some of this land into food production. And what would it take? You know, fences to keep the deer out, wells or some kind of water to be able to water the plants, fertilizer, manure, workforce, and you know, is there a role for government that could quickly step up production in a time where we can't get the food anymore? And now we're looking at, you know, a government that's slapping tariffs and you know the grain, China's buying it from Brazil rather than here, and so the farmers are left not knowing. You could talk about that.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:But again, well, and even a sort of a movement, the MAHA movement Make America Healthy Again. A lot of it is absolutely nuts and going to probably kill a lot of people who can't get vaccines or whatever. But at the same time, there is this push to do local, healthy food.
Secretary Atticks:Yeah, which is great.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, yeah, maybe we know how to do that. Maybe we can figure out how to remember how to do that.
Secretary Atticks:Well, and to your exact point, we are now four generations away from knowing a farmer, not just being a farmer. That's five, six generations back. We were a farmer or we lived in a community that had our farmer, that we purchased our products from. Nowadays, you may not even know a farmer, or even know that there are farms.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And kids who don't know where food comes from.
Secretary Atticks:Well, that's the thing is that you know you and I have talked about this that agriculture is kind of a jargon word. But if you say food, agriculture is food, and it's fiber and it's forestry and it's you know, all the things that we live in agricultural buildings, right. Because it's wood and other structures. We wear agricultural products because most of our clothing is still coming from some semblance of agriculture. I mean, yes, not polyester. But all the rest of it. You're wearing a hemp jacket.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:I'm sure it is hemp. Yeah, it smells amazing. It's going to be great, just don't smoke it.
Secretary Atticks:Maybe, but how do we get back to teaching everybody where food comes from, getting them to experience the growing of a tomato?
Secretary Atticks:I tell this story all the time, but I still remember the day and the place and the person who showed me that blackberries grew Like I didn't know that food grew showed me that blackberries grew Like I didn't know that food grew. And I walked up and she had this whole garden and she said go ahead and pick a blackberry. One of my favorite fruits that I knew came from the grocery store because that's where I got them. And there was this epiphany and I was like five years old and I didn't have 4-H, I didn't have FFA, there were none of these agriculture education programs near where I grew up in suburban Prince George's County, and so how do we not just the once a year, throw kids in a bus and take them to a pumpkin patch. But how do we infuse agricultural education so that when these kids become policymakers, protecting the food supply, food policy, is top of mind? In addition, you can also be an environmental advocate and a housing crusader and all these other things, which are critically important. But none of that matters without food.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So we've touched on two things now that are important in Anne Arundel County, where we're starting and we have the seeds to grow some great programs. One is ag education, and we've got a great program at Southern High School. But we have a superintendent who worked in Texas and knows what a really massive ag education program could look like and he's very excited. And then we also have that regional ag center.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So let's talk about both of those things. How do we get from where we are to where we want to be on ag education, and are there models around the state that are worth looking at?
Secretary Atticks:Well, there are some models around the state. First of all, we have no choice, we have to get there. There have been a couple of executive orders that the governor has signed, which include environmental education and literacy and agriculture literacy as goalposts, things that we need to have, and each county comes at it from a different way. I'll use Caroline County as just a fun example, because they're going after it through food, so they have a buyer in the local food system that is not only sourcing local products but has set up an external kitchen, because most school kitchens are not real kitchens, they're for warming and prepping, and all that has an external kitchen where they do the actual processing of the local ag into components that all of the schools can simply warm up. So they're freezing the broccoli as it comes in, not during the school year, and the lettuce that's coming in is packaged in a way and carrots et cetera, so that it can be used later, and this is specifically for the schools.
Secretary Atticks:Specifically for the schools, interesting. But who's working in that production kitchen? It's the kids, oh wow. And then who's working in the school kitchen? It's the kids. And then who's working in the school kitchen? It's the kids. So they're going at it from a culinary training standpoint, because if you say who's excited about ag, not many hands are going to go up. But who's excited about food? Every hand goes up. You want to help make lunch? Yeah, you want to help make the menu creative? Yeah, you want to go catch the catfish to put into the catfish cakes that we've gotten USDA to approve as a lunch menu item? Kids love it. That sounds like fun. So like that's how one school system is going about it. But it's.
Secretary Atticks:And we've toyed with the idea of pushing a course, a curriculum. But what if we embedded ag in everything as an activity? Yeah, within math, within geography, right, I mean, if you just use agriculture and farming as an example, kids will be a little more accustomed to it. We're also hearing that there may be an AP course that's coming out that is specifically focused on the food system. And again it was kind of pitched do you want something on agriculture or food system? And all of us ag secretaries from across the country and commissioners and directors voted that we'd rather have something on the food system than on agriculture, because agriculture is kind of a jargon thing and I don't know who's going to take it. But my kids probably your kids they like food. They might take an AP course on food.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, yeah, they might. Al right folks, so expect in Anne Arundel County to see a movement led by students. I know some of them, a lot of them from Southern High School, who have been part of the FFA program.
Secretary Atticks:Yeah, it's a great program.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And then Don Pulliam, who's on the school board from the southern part of the county, is a huge advocate for it, and we have a superintendent that is just waiting for.
Secretary Atticks:Game on.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, game on game on, so hopefully that will get underway. But you mentioned when you were talking about the processing for the kitchens. Of course you knew where my mind was going.
Secretary Atticks:Sure, sounds familiar.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Right, yeah?
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So in Anne Arundel County, as you know but for listeners the Purdue grain elevator was going to shut down and that was a concern to farmers who grew grain and took it there to sell it. We ended up acquiring it with state money. The senator at the time, State Senator Elfrith helped to put the group together, and Governor Moore got on board and we got an operator and it operated for a year and people started to that operator wasn't ideal. Some people weren't getting paid on time ,and people started to get other ways to get their grain to market, or they stopped growing grain and they switched to something else, and so there was no operator that was willing to do it. So here we have this facility at the far south side of the end of the county, almost on the Calvert County line, off of Route 4.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Down where food grows, down where food grows, surrounded by farms all over Southern Maryland, close to markets too in Anne Arundel, Prince George's even going into DC on Route 4. And so there was a plan for a regional AG center in St. Mary's County that fell through. The Southern Maryland Ag Development Corporation, which is a multi-county ag group, came to us and said, "you know, and we immediately went to them too and said how about this site for that? So we're doing a feasibility study. Tell us what a regional ag center might look like and what kind of questions we need to ask before we move forward.
Secretary Atticks:Well, first of all, thank you for your vision in picking up that project. It's a great concept. There are a few other jurisdictions and other parts of the state that are realizing that, as the industries move from commodity crops and big grain elevators to food production, that there needs to be a centralized facility. Like you would a grain elevator, with lots of farmers coming to a central area to drop off their products, to have it dried or to have it stored. You need a production facility, otherwise each farmer is going to be responsible for their own little production facility, which triggers zoning and permitting, and health and environment and it costs a lot of money and there's very specialized equipment to clean and slice and bag carrots, for example.
Secretary Atticks:So what if you had that centralized facility to encourage lots of farmers to grow food? And then the centralized facility either co-op based or staffed it could be fully staffed, could be making things out of it jams, jellies, preserving products I mentioned freezing before. It could be fermenting products, pickles, it could be all of these different things and each of those takes a skill set, but specialized pieces of equipment. Commercial kitchen each of those takes a skill set, but specialized pieces of equipment. Commercial kitchen. You know I mentioned the carrot processor. Well, that's for carrots.
Secretary Atticks:You may be able to use that for something else, but for potatoes you probably need a separate piece of equipment and automated potato washer, scrubber, peeler, packer, chopper onions. You get into all these food crops that can be marketed at the farmer's market can be marketed other places as well. But when you think about the school system, the Caroline County example, that's because there was someone there with a vision to start a little production area. Not every place is going to have that, but if the farmers can be using this center to package their food that they're growing in a way that is marketable and promotable, then you could have an enormous impact not only on the food system but on the agricultural base in the county.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And we're not just talking about it all being government run and subsidized necessarily.
Secretary Atticks:We can have an operator come in, but someone has to prompt it.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:There's added value, which means that there's revenue.
Secretary Atticks:That can be produced.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Correct, okay.
Secretary Atticks:But very often it's the government's place to seed something, to prompt something, and that's why you were spot on with the grain elevator. But I think Southern Maryland is a unique example and, if I could just touch on that for a minute, southern Maryland used to be one of our huge commodity producing regions in the state. Through zoning changes in a couple of counties you had development creep further and further south from outside the DC suburbs and now St Mary's County is some parts of it considered DC suburbs and now St Mary's County is some parts of it considered DC suburbs. What happened over time is properties got chopped up. There was not the density of commodity crops anymore and over time what you had is the seed suppliers went away, the tractor repair teams and supplies went away repair teams and supplies went away, and so the farmers in far Southern Maryland are going to Bel Air or Frederick or down into Virginia.
Secretary Atticks:pretty, deep or buying land in Iowa and moving out or leaving if it's their complete dedication. I mean, some people cash out and sell their land for development and live perfectly happy lives without guilt, and others cannot fathom giving up their land but can't seem to get it to pencil out without the scale. And so the grain elevator it wasn't just your one year of owning it, that kind of put it on pause. It was the industry's in transition and we see more folks who used to grow tobacco, who used to grow large commodity crops, are growing food, now table crops, which they need a facility, but they need a different type of facility.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So that's where the rat comes in, and I'll note that, yeah, that some of that food is that people eat is meat it is, and that processing A lot of it is yeah. And I know that we went on some tours of some Anne Arundel County farms but the waiting list to be able to get an animal processed, whether it is bison or whether it is cattle or whether it is sheep or whatever it is, is long. I mean they were talking about having to get their spot a year in advance and they still had to.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:I mean, there just aren't enough places to do it. So the St Mary's facility was going to be to process animals and meat, and that's one of the things that we're looking at in our feasibility study.
Secretary Atticks:Well, and that's critically important, and one of the reasons why that's important is that animal agriculture can be extremely profitable, extremely profitable, and right now more than ever, farmers are getting quite high margins off of meat, especially if someone can process it and then they can bring it back and sell it on the farm If they're selling it wholesale or to schools or whatever different model still works really well.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And I will note that the pastures that feed those animals are, when they're well-managed which they are, if they're good operations really filter the nutrients that would otherwise go into the bay pretty darn well. So, it's good for the chestnut they do.
Secretary Atticks:And boy, we could go down that whole path and talk about what's good for the bay and not good for the bay. But rotational grazing old-fashioned rotational grazing is actually pretty good for the bay because you've got essentially a perennial crop in that grass. It's never tilled, it's never killed off and if you're rotating the animals, that grass is growing roots, you've got native vegetation that's coming in there. You've got, you know, what may look to you and me as weeds but taste delicious to cattle or goats or whatever. So there's a real place for it and you can do it on significantly fewer acres than you need for a corn operation and less infrastructure. You don't need a combine and all of that.
Secretary Atticks:Correct. You do have to wrangle the bison though. Yeah, I've heard they don't always do what they're told.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Right, okay. So that's an exciting project. The feasibility study will be getting underway here soon and hopefully we can come up with the financing to get it underway. Cobbling together state, federal, county maybe privately, as is required.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, yeah, and I know I've actually talked to the governor about this directly and his eyes lit up and I know you've talked to him about it too and so hopefully that'll happen. So some of the other challenges and things that farmers face that you face what about just land conservation policy and how that works? I know some farmers sell development rights to keep it in the family. Is that? I know you don't do that directly right.
Secretary Atticks:Well, the Maryland Ag Land Preservation Foundation is within our department, oh it is, and then there are other preservation conservation programs MET, land trusts, et cetera.
Secretary Atticks:Counties have some of their own, but the gist is a farmer wants to keep farming or a landowner wants to keep that land open and undeveloped. They can sell the development rights. They're not selling the land, they're selling the right to develop it to the state, and the state is basically putting it in a drawer and saying we're not going to develop it, we've paid you for these rights. It's been a hugely successful program. Our program alone has spent over a billion dollars since the late 80s preserving land, and it's hundreds of thousands of acres across the state.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:It's a lot cheaper than actually buying the land and turning it into a park, though, right.
Secretary Atticks:It is. Yeah, because turning it into a park is developing it. Yeah, I mean you're having to put up trails and infrastructure and water and potties and all the other things that the public will love you for.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, but it is expensive and you don't have to pay the full value of the land, just the margin between, just the development rights Right.
Secretary Atticks:And so the landowner can still sell the land. But that land is in perpetuity in preservation, and one of the challenges with preservation is that we have, as a state, gotten locked in a certain period of time where we think agriculture means something, and I was part of the crew that made it okay in changing the policy to allow a winery on preserved property.
Secretary Atticks:But, it's with certain specifications and you have to use fruit that you're growing on the property and all that's great. But can you put a creamery on it? Can you have incidental camping? All these things become challenges that the preservation boards have to take on, but it's a great program, yeah.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And we've actually increased the numbers. Recently in Anne Arundel we kind of stalled for a while and then we changed it. We put it into our Department of Planning where we had the right people running it and then hired the right person and we've just increased the numbers of farms coming into the program and I know that our residents, even if they don't live in rural areas, they want that. It's interesting when you go to the county council and it's a bill having to do with farming and agriculture, you tend to get the support and I've experienced this before I was in politics. It's not that hard. I remember going to the county executive who wouldn't talk to us at the time, but we went around him to the council and we got exactly what we wanted. Didn't make him happy, but it was good policy. And that's happened a number of times and it's continuing to happen. So what have we missed? Anything? Any part of ag and food production that you want to make sure we cover before we wrap this up?
Secretary Atticks:Well, if I could talk briefly about some of the challenges that I hear about daily from farmers. Okay, so you mentioned early on and thank you for putting it in your plan that profitability has to be part of the plan for agriculture. It can't just be preserve it for open space. We actually have to preserve the farm business as well. Used to say, preserve the farmer, and someone said that sounded weird. But no, we're preserving the business and it's critical because farms are under such significant pressure. You mentioned tariffs, the uncertainty right now of who we're going to buy, who we're going to sell to and, frankly, where we're going to buy our fertilizer from, because the prices can be varying so dramatically this week because of tariffs and then the courts knock down the tariffs and maybe next week things are different, and so there's this mad scramble. There's also this general uncertainty where USDA.
Secretary Atticks:We're big supporters of USDA, but the administration has cut some really critical programs that were. They sounded like they might have been subsidies, but really they were trying to alter the food system. One program paid schools to buy local products. So you're training the school systems to buy local products. You'll find over time, the food's more nutritious. You're actually spending the money in your neighborhood. So the economy is lifting up higher tax revenue, et cetera, et cetera. And then the other one was funding food banks to buy local products. So you had all these farmers under these programs who were growing more food instead of feed growing more food, and those programs just disappeared. So there's that there's pressures from the solar industry, who's looking for the cheapest, flattest land to put solar on to help meet the state's clean energy goals. Great goal, but it directly conflicts with how do we keep farmers farming? Most farmers your listeners may or may not know most farmers don't own the land they farm. They lease it from someone else.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Especially in this area.
Secretary Atticks:Well, you mentioned the 20-acre plots. They're cobbling together 18 plus 18 plus 18 of those acres minus the home site to farm in the middle. And if those folks get a better deal from solar and by the way it's a much better deal than a farmer can pay they're going to go with solar and so farmers begin to lose the land. We're really concerned about that on the Eastern Shore, where the land prices tend to be a little suppressed compared to the high pressure areas like Anne, arundel County, baltimore County et cetera. So those are some of the big challenges.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And our farmers are well aware of all these.
Secretary Atticks:Yes, which is why I always lead with. Help me, help you, make farming more profitable. So what are the ideas Like? Let's get past the complaining about the commodity markets and prices of corn haven't been up in 10 years and dairy prices are down. I'll pay as much as I can for good ice cream, so take your dairy and let's build a creamery. Yeah Right, I'll spend a lot of money on a bottle of whiskey, so take that corn or wheat or rye, yep, and let's distill it.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, so. Well, we are damn lucky to have you in the job that you're in, because the kind of creative thinking outside the box, just like you were talking to the farm family about options, I'm sure you're talking to everybody in government, the other agencies and working with them. I know you work really closely with MDE, environment and Community Development, even DNR, daily DNR yeah.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:And it's really important for that coordination to happen. So, yeah, thank you, and I think all of the future generations should be thanking you and the department for the work that you do. I actually think that kids do love you know they're interested in food, but man getting, I know some kids.
Secretary Atticks:They love to get in the dirt.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah, yeah, the dirt under the fingernails and get out there and do some stuff like that and, yeah, we build the next generation of farmers.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:So thank you for everything you do.
Secretary Atticks:Yeah, thanks for the invite and thank you for what you're doing and your leadership. With the concept behind the RAC and ag education, I mean this will be a new model for the state.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Yeah. Well, hopefully whoever takes my place will be as passionate about it as I am and we'll get it done.
Secretary Atticks:It better be.
County Executive Steuart Pittman:Al right, thank you. Thank you.
Secretary Atticks:You're listening to the Pittman and Friends podcast. If you like what you hear, please hit the subscribe button. Share with a friend and join us for the next episode.
