Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Bringing together local businesses and neighbors of Bergen County
Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Ep. # 69 From Home-Based Tutoring to Educational Hub: Carolyn Goodman's Legacy and College Counseling Insights
Ever wondered how a humble home-based tutoring service could evolve into a thriving educational hub with a near-40-year legacy? Join us for an insightful episode featuring Carolyn Goodman, the visionary behind Expert Tutoring and College Counseling in Wyckoff. Carolyn shares her inspiring journey from balancing motherhood with her burgeoning tutoring business to establishing a respected educational center in the heart of the community. Discover how she navigated the evolving landscape of educational counseling by harnessing the power of personal recommendations and social media, all while maintaining a deep commitment to personalized student support.
Explore with Carolyn the intricacies of college counseling in competitive regions like Bergen County and the shifting role of standardized tests amid test-optional trends. Our conversation shines a light on how specific high school courses might influence test scores, and the essential skills of reading comprehension and math in academic success. Carolyn even highlights the impact of learning disabilities and the crucial role of specialists in helping students thrive. Celebrate the dedication that has built long-term relationships with students, and learn how Carolyn’s approach keeps her center a trusted choice for educational support.
Expert Tutoring and College Counseling
Carolyn Goodman
300 Franklin Avenue, Wyckoff, NJ, United States, New Jersey
(201) 891-5575
contact@experttutoringnj.com
experttutoringnj.com
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, Doug Drohan.
Speaker 2:Everybody, welcome to another episode of the Good Neighbor Podcast coming to you live from Bergen County, brought to you by the Bergen Neighbors Media Group. I am your host, doug Drohan, and I am joined today by the owner of Expert Tutoring and College Counseling based in Wyckoff, carolyn Goodman. Carolyn, welcome to the show, thank you, I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I love having different types of businesses on the show.
Speaker 2:Yesterday was a guy that has a Jamaican spice rub company, but it's kind of like his side hustle. But now he's morphed that into a beverage company where they serve or they sell hibiscus types of mocktail mixers, and he was actually on the cover of my Rivervale magazine a year ago, so that was kind of cool. He works for a hedge fund company, but this was built out of something during COVID and we're going to get into that. But I love hearing how people like their origin story, how they got into the business that they're in. And for you it's not been something you just started like. A year ago you established, you know, expert tutoring and college counseling what 40 years ago Almost.
Speaker 3:Almost. Yeah, I think I'm 105 at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you started when you were 10. That's right, nice, so tell us about that.
Speaker 3:I started it out of, actually out of necessity. I had to. Well, I had one child and I really I wanted to work, but I did not want to leave my house and leave my daughter with somebody. So I started doing the tutoring. I was a teacher by trade and and then it just grew and then, you know, I had to start to find a place to have my business. That was not my home and it really just it just kept growing and that's that's basically. You know how it was.
Speaker 2:Where were you a teacher in Bergen County you know how it was?
Speaker 3:where were you a teacher in bergen county? Yeah, actually, I never actually did teaching. I did my student teaching in union city, new jersey okay, and then I got married and never actually went down that road, but until I started doing the tutoring oh nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my, my in-laws are both teachers, and my wife's uncle and aunt, and it seemed like that was going to be the career they wanted for her and her sister, but they they didn't go into teaching but it's. But it's amazing how many people I meet that know. You know, if they're from Cliffside Park or New Milford they know of my, my in-laws. My mother-in-law was a school principal for an elementary school. My father-in-law was the shop auto shop teacher wow until they get rid of that program.
Speaker 2:But uh, I just met a guy at a bar who's a bartender of a restaurant in, uh, piermont and I hear them talking. He played baseball and then somebody mentioned cliffside park and I was like, oh, you know, my father-in-law was a teacher there. He's like who's that? He's like john. If you're mr a, oh my god, mr s, you know my father-in-law was a teacher there.
Speaker 1:He's like who's that? It was like John.
Speaker 2:If you're Mr A, oh my God, mr S you know, this guy's like 55 years old, you know, but he he remembers my father-in-law.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, so so all right.
Speaker 2:So you start this. Okay, you know I got a daughter. I don't want to work full time and I have a teaching degree, so let me see if there's a need for tutoring. So, what age groups did you start with? Was it more of like your daughter's age at that point, or did you?
Speaker 3:always no, my daughter was an infant at that point. I started with like middle school kids doing homework help. Then that went into math, then that went into SAT prep and so forth.
Speaker 2:So did you initially start like out of your home and then went to people's homes to help them study and and?
Speaker 3:yeah, I never went to anyone's home, but they came to my home. But then it was too much, you know, cars were coming parking in front of my house and it started just it just started to grow really fast.
Speaker 3:So I then bought a building in in the center of town in Wyckoff, um. Where it was zoned the lower level was business and upper level was you could live there. So we lived there above it and I did the tutoring downstairs and then I sold that business and now I'm that that building, rather Now I'm in the Defino building in town on 300.
Speaker 2:Franklin. I know Adam. I know Adam Well. He's a sponsor of the white golf magazine.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Guys, stop by that building all the time, so they are a wonderful family and Frank Defino has been an amazing person in my life Actually.
Speaker 2:A lot.
Speaker 3:He helped me find my first building and then he helped me to do that, to do the sale, and now over there and then all during COVID. You know he was a very generous man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3:So how did?
Speaker 2:you grow. How did your business grow initially? So you said it got to the point where you had to have your own space. So how did it go from? You know, I'm sure it was just people that you knew, word of mouth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really word of. It really was word of mouth until um, until it was. It's still word of mouth really. But when my kids got older they said, mom, you have to advertise on Facebook or advertise here. And I really didn't advertise. But you know, now we do, we do some local stuff, but it really is it's word of mouth. I mean, I have people that I have my students coming back to me now who have families, who have kids who want to be tutored. So it's fun. I feel really old when that happens.
Speaker 2:But it's fun, you do local stuff. Well, we could talk about that offline. But yeah, no, you know it's interesting because I don't know what it was like in 86. I was in college, so full disclosure, I'm not that young. But you know, tutoring was something I, you know. I took the SATs, a brother and sister and an older. I had two older sisters and a brother all took their SATs and ACTs. My brother and sister went to Cornell. I took my SATs once, did okay, but never took a.
Speaker 2:There was no Kaplan course at the time. That I know of my parents. You know I was four kids. Well, there were five kids, but I was the fourth in four years. So it was kind of like you took a test, okay, good, that's it, go on. There was no talk about maybe I should take some tutoring, maybe I should take some prep courses. It just wasn't. It was probably there in 1980, whatever, but it, you know it, didn't seem to be as prevalent as it is today. I grew up in Long Island and everybody went to college. You know it was kind of expected you go to college, you get a job in the city. That was kind of what was expected and yet there wasn't really this awareness of tutoring. And then if you think, you know, maybe 10 years later or so you'd see these Huntington Learning Center commercials, but they always seem to be for kids who had trouble in school. You know, if you think about their commercials, it was always I am studying but I'm still failing.
Speaker 2:You know, I never thought of it as a place that an A student, you know somebody who just needed to get you know a great grades to, whatever would go to. So how has the industry evolved for you in 40 years?
Speaker 3:or let's say 39 years. I mean, in the beginning it really was, you know, like kids that had trouble, and trouble only in school, math in particular. But now it is something where I mean, almost everybody does some kind of tutoring. If they're not, you know, if they, if they have a B plus they want an A plus um, or you know they have goals of getting into an Ivy league college. We also do college counseling and do their help them with their applications and that kind of thing. So it's. And now we really have everything. I mean we have an occupational therapist that works with us.
Speaker 3:We've got a speech therapist that works with us. We have people who do testing for kids who have learning disabilities. We have everything. Pretty much we're one-stop shopping. So yeah, it has gone from me at my kitchen table to. I have about 15 people working with me and we have a great time and the kids love coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm sure that just grew from seeing a need and maybe parents asking you oh, by the way, do you know anybody who could help with this? And do you know anyone? And you probably thought to yourself well, we could probably handle that if I hire the right people. Let's keep it all under one roof.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that makes sense.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. So where have you seen college counseling? Because I've talked to college counselors and I've talked to people whose kids are applying to college and I think in Bergen County, especially the Wyckoff area I'm over in the NVOT Northern Valley, old Japan Northern Valley area and it's very high performing, maybe high pressure, that I've got to go to a good college. When you sit down with someone and they say, yeah, I'm only applying to brown, cornell and princeton and, uh, I don't want to go to rutgers and I don't want to, you know, go to binghamton, whatever these are the colleges, and do you like, sit them down and with their parents and say, well, this is, you know, let me level set you and looking at your grades or looking at your, your resume, so to speak, well, we try to be realistic without squashing anyone's dreams either.
Speaker 3:I mean if you want to go to Harvard but you never apply, you're definitely not getting in. So you have to be ready to apply somewhere and accept the rejection if you get it. That's basically it, but we try to manage expectations with the families and the students.
Speaker 2:And if they have any questions, you could just tell them to watch the movie Rudy, where he wants to go to Notre Dame and his high school priest, because he goes to Catholic school, tells him you don't belong in this bus, you don't have the grades to go to to go to Notre Dame, so just forget about it. But he doesn't take no for an answer and he ends up, you know, getting the grades to go to Notre Dame, so just forget about it.
Speaker 3:But he doesn't take no for an answer and he ends up, you know, getting the grades to go there. It's important, don't take no for an answer. Exactly, right, right, keep going.
Speaker 2:So what do you see in terms of? You know all the different standardized tests. So obviously there's the SAT and the ACTs, which I guess are the most important for getting into college. How has that changed in terms of the level of scores you need to get into, let's not say, ivy League, but let's say, a prestigious private school? How has that changed? I know the scoring has changed since I took the SATs. How has that changed? I know the scores, you know just the scoring has changed since you know I took the SATs. How has that evolved over the years? And what? What do you do differently now that maybe you didn't do in terms of prepping people?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean the score. The, the sending of scores to schools has changed because with the, with COVID and all of that, and people weren't able to take a test has changed because with the, with COVID and all of that, and people weren't able to take a test. You know, schools went score optional and some schools are coming back now to yes, you need scores to come in, you know.
Speaker 2:So wait, sorry, score optional. You didn't need an SAT, you didn't have to present During COVID most of the schools yeah, most of the schools.
Speaker 3:Schools because you couldn't take a test.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 3:But now you can. You can take a test. So even if a score a school is score optional, still they will. If you send in a score to most of these schools, they're going to look at it. So if it's available for you to take a test, you should probably take a test.
Speaker 2:And how many times do you recommend somebody take a test?
Speaker 3:You know it doesn't really matter because now they don't really keep track of it. The average student takes it two, three times.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's the average, you don't need 100 hours of tutoring for the test.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you do, don't bother even taking the test, but you need. You know, a good 20 to 30 hours is the average that we see.
Speaker 2:And do you recommend they take the PSAT first?
Speaker 3:Well, they take it in school anyway.
Speaker 2:They do anyway.
Speaker 3:okay, but you know it's not necessarily your test. Your test may be the ACT Got it, got it.
Speaker 2:So, with the SAT, do you find that students that do better in verbal are students that studied a foreign language, or studied Latin Not that any of us studied Latin, but maybe a romance language. Or do you see any types of you know like where you could point to say, okay, these kids who did really well did X, y and Z Like? Is there anything you can model, because we always want to model after success? X, y and Z Like is there anything you can model, because we always want to model after success? So have you seen anything over your years that has better prepared students to perform better on an SAT, based on the curriculum and the classes that they studied not just studying purely for the SAT, but the kind of courses they took over their high school years?
Speaker 3:I think. I mean I would say that the basis of everything is reading. Comprehension is reading, so it's really important to read. As far as the classes that they take their math, your math class obviously has to be. You know you need to have algebra, geometry and algebra too, for most of these tests you want to be, you know you need to have algebra geometry and algebra too.
Speaker 3:For most of these tests you want to be, you know, in those type classes, but in general are you learning reading comprehension At a certain point. You're not learning that in school. So if there's any kind of an issue, we usually end up having to clean that up for the student.
Speaker 2:Okay, Now you also have these different specializations and different things. Like, I guess, if you're, if you have a student who's like we said back in the old days, people usually went to tutoring because they were struggling in school Do you ever uncover that maybe they have a learning disability that their parents they weren't aware of at the time?
Speaker 3:You do.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:A lot. Usually, you know, and it's unfortunate, but this is the way that it is. You'll get a junior coming in. They're starting to do their SAT prep. The first thing that we do is we have them. When we're doing a reading, we'll have them read the paragraph out loud, one paragraph out loud, so we can hear is there fluid? You know reading there, or are they choppy and are they pronouncing the words correctly? Is there a font? And we'll see it right. I mean, probably I would say 40% of the kids that come in have something going on and well, you know, yeah, really, that they. It just never was addressed. You know they compensate it in school, but you can't compensate when you're doing the test.
Speaker 2:So when you say something going on, you mean like some type of language-based learning disability. Exactly, I mean not dyslexia, but I would hope that was diagnosed earlier on.
Speaker 3:No, it could be, it could very well be. Wow it could very well be. Yeah, I see it a lot.
Speaker 2:Wow, and then where does the occupational therapist come in? For something that you know is that you know speech therapy. Do you have a speech therapist too, or is it more? I forget what you said. All the different, I do have a speech therapist.
Speaker 3:That's different. We have also have an occupational therapist. So, for example, our occupational therapist right now is working with somebody, a student, who's in second grade and having trouble with handwriting. Okay, yeah, so that's different than a speech therapist would be working with.
Speaker 2:They'll help them hold their pen. My son's a righty and he writes like he's a lefty.
Speaker 1:He like, rolls over and writes I'm like dude man.
Speaker 2:I've been trying to get him to hold his pen the right way, but now he's in fifth grade it's like, okay, is this ever going? Yeah, so what? You know, what is the thing that you that gives you the most satisfaction, that you love the most about what you do?
Speaker 3:Oh I, I love just seeing the kids happy. Sometimes we'll have a kid come in and they'll have their baseball cap on down and won't even look you in the eye and by the time they leave they're smiling and just jumping around. They're so happy. That's what I love. And I love when they get their scores and when they get into their schools and they come in and they bring us like a little banner from their school because they're so excited.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Great. And then at what age do you? Does somebody say would they start with you and they could be with you for years? Or obviously the SAT prepping is different. That's more short term, but do you find you work with people for a longer period of time, or is it more like you're a doctor? You fix what's ailing them and then they go off on their own?
Speaker 3:You know, we have a lot of kids that come in and they're just with us forever. And you know some because they need it, really, really need it, and some because, for example, one of my tutors told me the other day that I have so-and-so coming in. She said to me I didn't really have any homework today, but I just didn't want to not see you. So, yeah, we have kids come, you know, and we're more than just a tutoring center. I mean, we're going to grandparents' funerals, we're going to sweet sixteens, we become family with our students.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know. So you have that. And you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago, I don't think, mathnasium was around, maybe Huntington Learning Center was around, but even just in Wyckoff you've got a few different. You know, wyckoff, you've got a few different. You know options for people to go to, whether it's you know, C2, it's a tutor, me after three, or whatever it is, you know. So how do you like differentiate yourself from the national chains? And then some of them that are a little bit more you know mom and pop, kind of like you are for want of a better word bit more. You know mom and pop, kind of like you are for want of a better word.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean I can say that we've been in business for almost 40 years. I think we've been in business in Wyckoff, you know longer than anyone's been in business. And really, you know, I don't really look at the other companies, we just do our thing and service our clients.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay, and you know you just kind of keep your head down and do what you know is right and the rest takes care of itself, exactly. But as a parent and you know we go off of referrals I mean the Facebook groups of anybody can anyone recommend a tutor? The challenge with that is it's like right now, while we're talking now, I don't live in Wyckoff, I live in Harrington Park, so I live near Closter. I typed in tutors near me and I have Huntington Learning Center in Westwood. C2 Education in Closter. Maryland Con Associates Westwood, golden Advantage never heard of them. Westwood Huntington Learning Center. Another one Mathnasium.
Speaker 1:Pylon.
Speaker 2:Maths Mathnasium, jbe, in-home Private Tutoring Kuman Kuman's a big one, kuman. I found out there's a Kuman. There's like a Kuman in Ridgewood, a Kuman in Paramus, another Kuman in Paramus, another Kuman in Emerson and another Kuman. I'm like God, those poor franchise owners. They're competing with Kumans like three, four miles away from each other. But the point is is that it's overwhelming. I've got you know. I go down this list and even if I go on Facebook and ask somebody, everyone's going to have their person. You know their guy, whether it's tutoring or it's a plumber or whatever.
Speaker 2:So you know, obviously you've been around for 40 years so, and you've grown and you've added, you know, like this vertical kind of integration of other services. So you know one thing, and I and I never sent my son to you, I've never, you know, been to a tutor myself. But the from our conversation it seems that one of the things I've experienced with national chains when it comes to physical therapy or other things like that, is it's not as personal, it's a little bit more impersonal, and I don't want to take anything away from the people that own those franchises, but would you say that's part of it. I mean, are you still working hands on and, as you have any of your daughter or family members you know, joined, or your team has grown? I mean, how do you, how do you approach the team?
Speaker 3:Because obviously you've said you've grown so much over the years, uh, that must be one of the things that's, uh, you know, built your business, I guess right yeah, I mean, I have my two daughters, both work with me, um, and then most of my tutors that are with me have been with me for 20 plus years of the 40 um, and and again, it is it's, uh, we're it's. We're different than a chain, we're just different.
Speaker 3:You know, we're in there Like I said you know we're going to sweet 16s where we're family with with our, we really care we really care about the student.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Now, with that said, you really care and, and some of the things that you said are the reason for your success. We have a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs, that are on the show and I've talked to well. First of all, before I get there. I mentioned before we got on air that COVID had to be an interesting time for tutors and you guys. I know you do some online learning. What was that like and how did you guys pivot?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was. I'll tell you this we had already been doing online tutoring because we have international clients. I've had clients in London, spain, india, I mean you name it and we've had clients. So we were already ready for that, but not ready for hey, there's no more ACT test you know or no more SAT test. So you know the business was not there. Luckily, I had a great landlord, as I mentioned before, who was very generous with us and helped us through that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so how long were schools saying well, you don't need to take the SAT? How many years? So it was 2020.
Speaker 3:No, it was like a year or something, I started getting back to normal. I mean, there were still kids, we still had kids, and the kids weren't going to school. And then, when they started going to school, and then they they still needed help with math. We were doing everything online until we weren't. Yeah, no, I'd imagine it was.
Speaker 2:You know, I know it was very challenging for students. I feel really bad for the high school and early college students that had to deal with that. So, you know, not everybody is cut out for individualized. You know online learning. You know some of them need to be in a room with other people for a number of reasons. So I imagine that was an opportunity for you guys to help people stay focused and and even maybe there's a different technique to learning online and listening to a teacher on zoom versus, uh, you know, in in person. So, um, so what advice would you give if someone was starting a business today? Um, any business. Do you have any advice that you could give them? And and, um, you know what's worked for you and the trials and tribulations that you may have gone through.
Speaker 3:I think that it's really important to be honest and care about your client before you care any about anything else. It's not about the money, it's not about it's. It's about caring about the other person, and then that will come back to you.
Speaker 2:So there's a guy named Larry Levine who wrote a book called selling from the heart and he's got a podcast and he used to have a Friday zoom meeting with people called the insiders group, which I was a part of and one of the big uh kind of quotes, because I get these daily dose of inspiration emails from him every morning at 6 00 am. I care about your client more than you care about your next customer. And you know selling from the heart means about being authentic and really caring, because the in the world of sales, if you just want to put sales in a bucket, it's down down there with you know, car salesmen and the lawyers in terms of the amount of you know that if you gave something a Q rating on how favorable a career is viewed by people, you know sales is on the bottom of that ladder or that rung for reasons that you know go back historically. So that's one of the things he says is that care about your customer more than you care about your next sale. So I think that's great advice.
Speaker 2:So where? How would people find you? Where's? Where are you located? Let's just give that to our listeners again.
Speaker 3:Okay, so we are at 300 Franklin Avenue in Wyckoff on the second floor, and we have our website is experttutoringnjcom. Expert tutoring njcom. Um, or they can reach us by calling me on my phone 891-5575.
Speaker 2:There you go, 201.
Speaker 3:201. Right.
Speaker 2:Right, very good. All right, carolyn, this was great. Thank you very much for sharing, and just bear with us for a few seconds and you and I'll be right back.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you for listening to the good Neighbor podcast. To nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show, go to gnpbergen. com. That's gnpbergen. com, or call 201-298-8325.