Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Bringing together local businesses and neighbors of Bergen County
Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Ep. # 74 Navigating Sports Law and Therapy Exemptions: Paul Haberman's Legal Insights and Athlete Stories
Join us as we welcome Paul Haberman from the Mueller Haberman Law Group, who takes us on a tour through the fascinating worlds of business litigation, sports and entertainment law, and health law. Paul shares compelling stories from his work with high-profile athletes, managing everything from contract negotiations to regulatory challenges. With his firm deeply rooted in the Northern New Jersey community, Paul sheds light on how they provide versatile services that go beyond just sports, touching on land use, real estate, and contract needs.
Transitioning from city-based law firms to establishing a successful practice in Tenafly, New Jersey, Paul offers valuable insights into building client relationships and maintaining ethical standards in the legal profession. We explore his passion for writing about unique legal issues, like the intriguing implications of therapeutic use exemptions in sports, including an unusual encounter involving tennis player Emma Raducanu and jumping ants. Discover how his firm is structured to deliver exceptional client service, and learn about the unique challenges and rewards of practicing law in Bergen County. Tune in for an engaging episode that uncovers the multifaceted nature of legal practice in New Jersey.
Mueller Haberman Law Group
Paul Haberman
19 Engle St Tenafly, NJ, United States, New Jersey 07670
Cell: (201) 564-0590
Tel: (201) 567-4969
phaberman@muellerfirm.com
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, Doug Drohan.
Speaker 2:Everyone, welcome to another episode of the Good Neighbor Podcast brought to you by the Bergen Neighbors Media Group. I am your host, doug Drohan. Today we are joined today I'd like to welcome Paul Haberman. Paul an attorney with Mueller Haberman Law Group down in Tenafly, new Jersey. Paul, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me Good afternoon everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good afternoon. So let's you know, listen, it's a law firm that has a number of different practice areas, but what do you specifically focus on?
Speaker 3:Generally, if you're coming to me, it's business litigation, either plaintiff or defense side, sports law or health law, as well as perhaps some land use as well in the North Jersey area.
Speaker 2:So if it's a sports, you know sports and entertainment laws. So you work with athletes, entertainers, managers, agents.
Speaker 3:Yes, I've dealt with a little of each over time. My heavy area in sports and entertainment is actually combat sports. I've had eight current or former world champions in boxing and mixed martial arts as clients, and scores of others in those particular sports as well, in addition to having represented people around baseball and football and a number of other sports over the course of time.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I mean, we don't have to get into it like who exactly if you want to name drop, but when it comes to the combat sports, so what types of cases are your clients coming to you with?
Speaker 3:Well, it depends. A lot of it is contract negotiation. I'll give you some good, interesting examples of that from recent history. But as far as litigation goes, you know, in sport I actually had a matter last year before one of the athletic commissions here in the United States where I had a client who's a well, we'll say a well-regarded heavyweight that got popped after his big win on on streaming service for testing positive for elevated testosterone, and so that became a real interesting back and forth with the commission in question about how to handle that. Because for his instance, unlike a lot of other athletes, there was a good reason why he had an elevated testosterone level, which was that he had a abnormally low testosterone level and thus needed supplementation testosterone level and thus need a supplementation. But under this particular state's regime you just couldn't use it for any reason. So that was just a matter of mitigating the suspension and the damage in the.
Speaker 2:You know in the clawback. I mean, I have elevated testosterone levels, naturally, so I wonder. I guess that's why I?
Speaker 1:never competed you know, in the ring, that's the only reason why you know.
Speaker 2:Otherwise I would have been. I could have been a contender. Well shoot if you ever want to compete.
Speaker 3:I could get my manager's license renewed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think I'll just stay as a spectator. So then, with the health care law, are you representing businesses or individuals?
Speaker 3:Historically, I've represented both Okay, represented doctors, nurses and others on regulatory matters. I've represented them in medical and practice defense earlier, especially earlier in my career. Certain institutions, including Rikers Island medical and practice matters earlier in my career as well and just you know today just essentially as they have needs. One of the last big things I handled in the medical world was a nurse at a New Jersey hospital that was suspended and accused of diverting narcotics from her unit. So things like that are fairly interesting on the one hand. And then you know you do the everyday things like negotiating physician employment agreements, where you know it's not just a normal contract as you have in other areas, but there's certain triggers in the field of medicine or medical law that you have to kind of be aware of when you're negotiating so you get the full meaning of what they they're committing to got it, got it.
Speaker 2:So if I'm listening to this show and I'm not an athlete and I'm not uh, you know, I'm not somebody famous, but I am, say, a nurse or a doctor, and I'm considering being employed by a new practice, especially maybe the ones that are being bought out by bigger hospital practices, then I would talk to you Definitely, yeah, okay, yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, and to that point actually, I've lectured on physician employment agreements as well.
Speaker 2:So for other attorneys, Okay, and do you get into podcast agreements?
Speaker 3:Because I see I do, I have done a few.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I didn't have you sign an agreement for this podcast so hopefully I'm covered. But there's so many things that I think, when, on the surface, when you talk about sports and entertainment, well, that's not me, I'm not an athlete, I'm not a entertainer. Or healthcare, well, I'm not a, I'm not a you know, big insurance company. I'm not a hospital, I'm not a doctor, so why would I need you?
Speaker 2:Or you know, but there are a lot of things that you you could help say the everyday person and different things throughout their business. You know career, I guess. Is that correct? Oh, for sure I mean.
Speaker 3:One interesting thing with our firm is that, in addition to our bigger topics, you know we are based in Tenafly, so although we have matters that are national and we have matters that are international, we're both very. You know me and my partner, I should say, are both very ingrained in the Northern Valley of New Jersey and you know we're both former council councilmen. I'm on my planning board in my town. You know we'll handle some some good neighborhood stuff as well, including land use. You know I need real estate. Any given contract needs that come up. You've already touched on a few. You know there's no shortage of different contracts. One could review what I. What I've noted earlier is just more of the signature areas, but I've reviewed a wide range of different agreements, whether it's, you know, for DJing, supplying interior design services. You know you can go on and on. This is my 20th year since graduation, so a lot's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, speaking of graduation, at what point in your life did you say to your parents you know, I think I want to be a lawyer, I want to go to law school.
Speaker 3:I think it technically took place right before senior year of college, but I think it was always in my system. I was you know it was I was always kind of wired to both be mouthy in an insulting sort of way and mouthy in an intelligent kind of way, so I had a way of communicating that was sort of a bludgeon at times and the question became how you sort of put a leash on that and make a living out of such an innate feature. That's funny.
Speaker 2:I've heard some parents say oh, my kid is so good at negotiating with me, I think they're going to be a lawyer someday. They'll have to argue everything and they want to win. That was me. That was definitely me.
Speaker 3:I think they're going to be a lawyer someday. They love to argue everything and they want to win, so that was me.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so 20 years since you graduated. So you know there's I've met a lot of lawyers. And one thing you realize it's not all the show suits, or you know, or what was that show in the 80s with the law firm.
Speaker 1:Help me out with LA.
Speaker 2:Law, Mat Law, LA Law, yeah, LA Law. Thank you, yeah, so you know there's a lot of different. Obviously there's so many different things and different topics and different practice areas, Right? What do you love most about what you do?
Speaker 3:Oh well, two things, I think. One I legitimately like helping people out, especially people that I know it's something I could bring to everyone, and that was one of the things my parents were emphasizing with me before I went to law school is that they like the idea that anybody around the family or friends have a question, they could come to me, you know but uh additionally, one great thing about the practice of law at least in my experience and in my areas of practice uh is that it gives me access and a look into the worlds that you know.
Speaker 3:if I didn't get into law, I have no business having access to uh, including sport, I mean to, you know, to the earlier discussion including sport, I mean to the earlier discussion, and that's been a nice little upside. It makes up for the sort of dreary, you know, or irritating things that might go on, that you would expect in a profession that's fairly stressful by its design.
Speaker 2:So do you act as a sports agent, like a Scott Boras type of agent, in some of these cases?
Speaker 3:No, not exactly. I used to be a boxing manager, okay yeah, that's partially how I got my start around sports law. But I got away from that. You know, I just represent people as their counsel. I'll represent athletes, for example, against their agent or just kind of policing their agent or their promoter or somebody like that. Just to make sure you know that I'm not as incentivized to say an agent to make sure somebody enters into an agreement. I'm giving them just an honest look at the agreement and what I see in it and what I don't like and what I do like, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So you know, Mr Soto, I don't know, that's 700 million, but they're not giving your family a suite. I wouldn't sign this deal unless they're going to pay for your family's private suite and maybe some wardrobe.
Speaker 3:Exactly you know how attorneys can mess up deals, suite and maybe some wardrobe. Exactly you know how attorneys can mess up deals.
Speaker 2:So that's because you know, listen, I'm going to focus on this a little bit, because whenever you hear sports and entertainment law, you think about the you know, jerry McGuire, you think of ballers, you think of Scott Morris and all the negotiations you hear on TV all the time that's in the media. How would you advise, like somebody who's going to law school and says, yeah, I want to get into sports and entertainment law because that's, that's where, that's where the fun is. You know, blinded by the light, you know what is has a good old stare into the sun, the blind, whatever it is, you know the Springsteen song, the fun is, um. So how would you like, could you give any advice? Like you said, you kind of got into the sports side because you were a boxing manager. Um, do you find that a lot of you know early law students say, yeah, I want to get into sports and entertainment law for for that reason, and then how many of them?
Speaker 2:find it to be what they thought it would be well, I think it's I always.
Speaker 3:There's a couple of things I could say to that. One thing I always say is that sports and entertainment law is essentially dressed up contract law. So you know it's the same sort of document. You know contract review and drafting that you're doing, whether you're discussing construction agreements or entertainment agreements. So you know somebody doesn't have any access to that world going into law school, you know, but remains committed to trying to get into sports and entertainment. One thing I would say is you know, take a transactional legal position, as you know, either in law school or afterwards, where you can learn the fundamentals of contract drafting and negotiation, even if it's not exactly in what you ultimately want to be in, because you can learn something from every job and certainly you can learn. You know you don't want to just have your first entertainment client not really know what you're doing on either the litigation or transactional end of things. And I've been lucky enough to get both points of experience because I spent 11 years at bigger law firms before I even went solo. So I got that seasoning in litigation. I got that seasoning in real-time boxing management, negotiating contracts and things like that.
Speaker 3:But as far as how I actually got involved. I mean the management was after law school. I got involved, mean the management was after law school. Um, I got involved, uh, at least initially. Uh, there's a boxing promoter that went to my law school. Uh, that was actually boxing on the junior olympic team or the olympic travel uh, or the international us team, however they called it, and I heard you know that he went to my law school. I, I just reached out and next thing I know one of my first internships was a boxing promoter in the first summer in law school and somebody that grew up on Tyson. That was just fine, perfect internship for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's great. So you kind of mentioned how that started. What was it like? At what point did you say I want to start my own firm.
Speaker 3:You know it was a combination of things. I was pretty seasoned by the time I got to my third law firm. I had a lot of good wins. I was known as a sort of a motion guy. I knew how to get cases blown away let's put it that way, because I was on the defense side. I knew how to destroy other people's cases and motion practice and court filings, and so I wasn't going into my third law firm from without and I just did not get a great feel for the environment there.
Speaker 3:Suffice to say I'm probably being somewhat euphemistic. But at the same time, because of my access to boxing through management and other things, I'd already started generating some of my own clients and leads and had some good will banks with adversaries for my travels, and you know it just felt like I got the message from the heavens that it was time to do that. So, and thankfully it was in a position to hit the ground running. I mean, I had a couple of clients that I took with me from my last firm. I wasn't going to keep me entirely busy, but then people started to learn that I went solo and just started working with me almost immediately.
Speaker 2:So were you originally in law school? Was it in Manhattan?
Speaker 3:I went to school at-, not law school.
Speaker 2:So your first firms that you worked for.
Speaker 3:Yes, the first two were in the city. The second one I transferred to the White Plains office, which was more driving distance to the Northern Valley of New Jersey. Well, my wife was on bed rest with our first child, who's now 13. And then the last one, although I had a city office was White Plains as well.
Speaker 2:So it's interesting. You know you don't normally think of a law firm, sports, entertainment and health. Uh, that's in Tenafly, burden County, new Jersey, right, was that? I mean having these clients that you brought with you? Was that ever an issue for them? You know where's Tenafly? What's?
Speaker 3:New Jersey. I always tell them to have step off of the bridge if they have any question where it is versus New York. But uh no, I had my, uh, my work in with them by the time. I even went solo and we have a New York City office. I should mention that too. But so you know anyway once the question where we are, or the pedigree simply because we're out here, this has to do their homework a little bit. Tenafly's got a lot of good things going on. This part of Jersey has a lot of good things going on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. Back in the day my dad worked on 80 Pine Street and my first summer job working with my dad was at 80 Pine. So I was a runner. I was a runner. I was in high school and I was a runner going to the Amex and the New York Stock Exchange and different banks. You know this Long Island kid going to the city every day, taking the Long Island Railroad, hopping on the 2 train, going to 2 Broadway no, sorry, the 4, 5, or or six, I guess it was and then, uh, going to 80 pine. It was a different world, man, but I remember it well, I remember well, the federal reserve is not too far from there, right, right?
Speaker 3:right and uh, yeah, so this, the old south street seaport area, is right there also, where we are, yeah, yeah, nice neighborhood so what?
Speaker 2:is it that, um, you know that if somebody were looking for an attorney and looking for the specialties that you focus on, like, what do you want them to know about you?
Speaker 3:I give you. You know, I feel like I give my clients a good amount of time. I feel like I'm fair with billing. I feel like I have a good varied experience with high and low profile sort of things that I could really give an educated and thorough look at. You know, I'm always willing to go as hard as the client is willing to go in any given negotiation, any given litigation. So you know I'm there for you, I think the firm as a whole, you know we're here for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, when it comes to the Q rating of certain professions sales, you know salesmen and lawyers are not, you know, high on the totem pole of you know, traditionally, if you think of the old connotations or reputations. So I think it's important that you know people know that you're there for them and it's not about, you know, making a buck, it's about what's doing right for them. And you know you also get into, you know, I guess you write a lot of blogs or articles on different topics. I do. So if you could explain what is I'm looking at, something called the Jumping Ants issue, what?
Speaker 2:was that story about, or that article about.
Speaker 3:That's a very interesting topic. Actually, before the Australian Open, the former US Open champion, emma Raducanu, made headlines because she had suffered a swelling of one of her arms and one of her ankles as a that's the biting jumping ants in Australia and New Zealand. Actually, the team that won the professional basketball league's championship there last year was the Tasmania Jack Jumpers, but anyway. So why I was newsworthy other than the fact that she got bitten up by these jack jumper ants is that she didn't feel comfortable taking any medications, any sprays, to treat it because she was worried that she might get a positive banned substance test. As a result of that, and without enough time before the Australian Open, she just decided to kind of suck it up and play through the pain for better or worse.
Speaker 3:And what that article is about is what's known in several sports, including tennis to kind of suck it up and play through the pain for better or worse. And what that article is about is what's known in several sports, including tennis, as the therapeutic use exemption. And one of the governing bodies in tennis, or the main governing body for drug testing in tennis, the ITIA, has a therapeutic use exemption where you could essentially get medical documentation of a condition such as what Amin Raducanu had, and you know, if they believe that you know you need this for your health, or and that won't impact performance, or what have you you essentially get the go-ahead for that particular banned substance. So if you come up dirty at a tournament, you still get a pass because you have a therapeutic use exemption to that point, as they call it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there have been a lot of cases, whether they were in defense or they were masked for actually using PEDs. You know a lot of people have had trouble. You know they took antihistamine because they've had allergies and they failed a drug test because of that. So I understand her hesitancy, but at the same time you're being bitten by these crazy ants. I'm sure that affected her performance.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. So you guys, as you mentioned, you're a firm. So how many people are in your firm?
Speaker 3:We have I'm trying to do the math here roughly four attorneys in-house, and then, you know, a handful of above-council attorneys. Then we have a full staff as well paralegals, and what have you.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. Well, paul man, this was you know. This was enlightening. I think it's really cool to learn that. You know there are people that practice sports and entertainment law and health care law right here in Bergen County and Tenafly, but also, you know, for the everyday person. You know you're looking at litigation of um, a lot of a big Rolodex, I guess you could say, of different, uh, you know services and attorneys and people all across the country if not the world right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and um, and I think it gives some peace of mind that, even if I have a need to drop a podcast agreement, that I know that you've, you've got a wealth of knowledge on on a lot of different you know factors and it's you know, I think it's really useful. So so let's, let's just go how? How would people reach you? What's the best way to contact you?
Speaker 3:Well, phone number is let me double check that here, since the partnership is relatively new. So I have a new landline, 2, 201-567-4969. And to do some homework on us, muellerlawgroupcom. And I also still maintain my personal law firm site, which I, as I was solo, for eight and a half years, and that's PaulHabermanLaw. com.
Speaker 2:Got it Well. This is great. I really appreciate you being a guest on our show today and just bear with us for a few seconds and you and I'll be right back.
Speaker 3:Excellent, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you for listening to the Good Neighbor Podcast. To nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show, go to gnpbergencom. That's gnpbergen. com, or call 201-298-8325.