Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Bringing together local businesses and neighbors of Bergen County
Good Neighbor Podcast: Bergen
Ep. # 103 Silver Stage Motivators: Bringing Joy Back to Seniors' Lives
What happens when we stop doing the activities that once brought us joy? For many aging adults, this gradual disconnection from favorite pastimes often leads to isolation, cognitive decline, and diminished quality of life. Enter Brian Blotner of Silver Stage Motivators, who's created a revolutionary approach to eldercare focused on rekindling joy through meaningful engagement.
After 25 years in disaster cleanup, Brian's life took an unexpected turn when three people close to him died during COVID. While caring for his dying father, he discovered his true calling: motivational companionship. "I try and get my clients back to doing what they used to do," Brian explains. "If they used to go fishing, I take them fishing. If they used to cook, I get them to cook."
What makes Brian's approach unique is its intentional structure. By visiting clients roughly four hours weekly, he creates something precious they can anticipate: "Oh, it's Thursday, Brian's coming tomorrow. We're going to go bowling." This anticipation itself becomes therapeutic, combating the downward spiral that accompanies isolation. As Brian eloquently puts it, "You don't stop laughing when you grow old. You grow old when you stop laughing."
Though most clients are in their 80s, Brian works with people as young as 33 with special needs, creating personalized experiences that range from fishing trips to Eagles concerts. His services extend to various living situations—from private homes to memory care facilities—throughout Bergen and Rockland Counties. The common thread? Building genuine connection through active engagement rather than passive caregiving.
Ready to bring joy back to an aging loved one's life? Visit silverstagemotivators.com or call 845-422-6254 to learn how Brian's unique approach to companionship might be the missing piece in your elder care puzzle.
Silver Stage Motivators
Brian Blotner
(845) 422-6254
silverstagemotivators.com
This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, Doug Drohan.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Good Neighbor Podcast in Bergen County brought to you by Bergen Neighbors Media Group. Today I'm joined by Brian Blattner of Silver Stage Motivators. Brian holds a score here. He and I know each other from a lot of senior care networking events. Brian is from right up over the border. I'm like three miles from Rockland County and that's where Brian's from. So, brian, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me Doug Appreciate it. Happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for joining us. And Silver Stage Motivators. So are you a personal trainer? Silver stage motivators? Are you a personal trainer? Are you in the antique business, helping people motivate them to sell their silver? What is silver stage motivators?
Speaker 3:I do non-medical motivational companionship for aging adults and need-based individuals. Basically, I try and get my clients back to doing what they used to do. So if they used to go fishing, I take them fishing. If they used to cook, I get them to cook. If they used to go to the horse stable, I take them to the horse stable. It's pure engagement and real motivation for my clients.
Speaker 2:Wow. So how did you get into this business? What kind of motivated you or what was your aha moment to say, hey, you know, I think this is a need, this is a service that people need. Like, what was your motivation behind being a motivator?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that's a great question. So I had another business for 25 years. I did a flood damage cleanup and mold remediation. So, my father was an entrepreneur, he was an executive recruiter. He started his own business. So I kind of just followed in his footstep, created my own business, which was my other one, and then after about 25 years, it started to eat away at me, the old business you know it was 24, seven.
Speaker 3:It was, you know, a lot of liability, breaking down walls, getting rid of mold, and what really the impetus of me getting out of it was when COVID hit. Three people close to me passed away within seconds One of my full-timers, someone that used to work for me, their son worked for me, he passed away and my landlord's son, all in their late forties and in their mid fifties. And and so I said to myself you know, I'm not enjoying what I'm doing anymore and life is short. I just you know what. You don't know what's going to happen around the corner. So so I decided to sell the other business. So I sold it, not for retirement money, it was a small business but I decided what do I want to do? And my favorite part of the other business was meeting the clients, making them feel comfortable. You know I was going into emergencies their house was flooded or they had mold or there was a fire and I loved meeting them, getting to know them and making them feel comfortable and just you know that they're in a safe place working with me.
Speaker 3:So when I sold the business, I just started. I didn't know what I was going to do and I just started looking around and seeing things about working with people, and I saw this word companion somewhere and I was like huh companion. But most of the companions out there work for home health aid companies and you know they're more medical and they, you know they'll play cards. But I'm I'm non medical, I'm not, you know, trained in that. So I just started to kind of create.
Speaker 3:Oh, let me go back for one quick second. While COVID was happening, my father, unfortunately, was passing away, not COVID, he was just, you know, it was getting time and I became his motivational companion. You know, I try and get him to laugh, I take him out to do fun things, give him a little bit of quality of life while he was declining. So I didn't know what I was doing at that point. I was just doing what I did as a son to make him happy and smile. And then again I saw the word companion. I was just Googling and I was like huh companion.
Speaker 3:And so what happened was I just started kind of gearing it towards what I can do. You know, I want to make somebody smile, I want to make somebody happy, I want to get them to do things that they want to do. I wasn't from the adults, you know, the senior community worked. I, when I was younger, I volunteered at a nursing home, but you know. So I just kind of created something for me what I can do and what I feel I would have been the best at, would be the best at, and that's kind of how I kind of fell into it.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean that's uh, it's funny that you sold your business but not knowing what you were going to do next. I mean that's pretty bold. You have a family, right, you're a father. So to say, yeah, I'm selling the business, it's not, I'm not selling it for five, $10 million. It's not like I'm kicking back, correct. But I guess you just were done with it and figured you'd find your next calling. I guess that's that's pretty bold. I mean that's you know. One of the things you you know with an entrepreneur is you're definitely a risk taker. To say, I'm going to go off on my own and try something, uh, without getting a steady paycheck, because you believe in yourself, you believe in what you're doing to the point where you're willing to do that and your family kind of buys into it or trust you. So that's amazing.
Speaker 3:And they did, and that was a great thing. My wife was behind me. I still have one daughter that's in college, and again I did get some money from the business. So that was, like I called it, my college education.
Speaker 2:We were putting on that while I was getting it going and, um yeah, so I have, I'm a big Seinfeld fan and I have this episode my head while you're talking with, uh, you know, with Jerry going to the guy's house who has the big record collection, yeah, and uh, george getting oil rubbed on his head and uh, elaine going to see somebody who's got a big goiter.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's, that's, uh, I'm obviously, but it's, it's kind of a funny, um, as you're talking about having somebody to just be a companion, that just you know came up. And I'm sure you know one of the things you hear about with, um, you know, with seniors, and especially if their spouse has died, is that do I go to an assisted living community or do I want to stay at home and age in place and stay at home? And one of the bigger arguments as to why they should go to a community is for socialization, correct, and I guess what you're doing is allowing that, that person and that family to feel comfortable, that mom or dad, yeah, they're home, and maybe that we have an aid that comes in to help them medically. But you know, there's so much to your quality of life that comes from just being having your mind and your brain and your senses stimulated. So I guess you know is that kind of where you come in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's all about giving something, giving people something to look forward to. So we all have something to look forward to, right, we have a party, we have this, some people, they watch TV, they go to the doctor, they watch TV, they go to the doctor, and that's their life. And what happens is that's when the mental decline starts. So part of my business model is I only see each client roughly four hours a week, some less, but it's about four hours a week. Because the point is it's not if I go every day, it's it's not exciting anymore. Okay, coming, but what happens is they go. Oh, it's Thursday, brian's. Tomorrow's Friday, brian's coming. We're going to go out to eat. You know we're going to go bowling. You know we're going to go to a museum. So it gives them something to look forward to. So that's actually part of the business model, not to. You know, I've been asked to see someone's parent more or someone's spouse more and I say it doesn't work.
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes I'll go twice a week, and I do go twice a week if it's less time per time that I go, but it's not. You could feel it when you get there because I was just there two days ago, so it's not that exciting.
Speaker 2:And it's not just going to their house, right? You guys go bowling together. You go to, you know sporting events. You just take them on little you know, I guess road trips or yeah, road trips.
Speaker 3:Right, you know I have insurance. I'm allowed to drive my clients to and from activities and that's really what it's about. You know, getting getting them out. So my clientele, most of them, they have to be mobile and not too far down the decline of, say, you know, alzheimer's or dementia. You know they're all there because that's what I do, but you know they have to be able to get into my car because we have to go places. So you know there's that aspect. You know, if they're too far, you know I've had clients that have declined while I've been with them and then they've been put into programs.
Speaker 3:So I've I've lost them as a client, unfortunately, but but you know that's what I do. I do want to say that I do have spouses. You know I'm hired by, usually by the children, but it's married couples. Sometimes I work with the wife, sometimes I work because one of the spouses is cognitively doing OK and the other one is starting to decline. So they want them to get out have something you know, smile.
Speaker 3:You know I tell jokes. It's, you know it's pure engagement. That's my thing. I don't watch TV, you know I don't. You know, sit around If there's silence I get very upset. You know, it's not a regular companion that you hear about. That's there just to keep them safe, right, right, it's to make them think and make them have fun and look forward to the next time they see me.
Speaker 2:Right, and you talk a lot about positivity and the positive effects of happiness and laughter and how that has an effect on longevity. You know you spoke about it already, but you know when your mind is active and you're looking forward to something. I don't want to say there's something to live for, but there's certainly. You know ways of how positivity elongates our lives and our quality of life. Is that something you? It's kind of paramount to your business?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. You know, smiling to me is everything. There's a statement you don't stop laughing when you grow old. You grow old when you stop laughing. Okay.
Speaker 2:I use that phrase. I stole it from Don Henley from the Eagles. But he says you don't stop playing because you get old. You get old because you stop playing. It's the same thing, yeah exactly, exactly that whole young at heart song.
Speaker 3:And it's so true. You know, we just have to, we just have to stay young. You know, I do a little. I do a half hour PowerPoint presentation on positivity, happiness and laughter. That I do at independent living residences, assisted living residences, and it's it's just, you know. Living residences, assisted living residences, and it's it's just. You know why we how to think positive, why we think negative. You know, I tell some dad jokes in there, I get them up to dance a little bit and it's it's a half an hour of them to to smile and hear about the, the tanks in World War II, when they, you know they get a lot of talking about stuff like that.
Speaker 3:I just want to make people smile and and enjoy life, for you know cause? Life is short, as we know. And and we have to enjoy every day.
Speaker 2:Well, don't you know that it's worth every treasure on earth to be young at heart? I don't know who sang that song, but I remember that was in a commercial when I was growing up.
Speaker 3:Oh, I like that song, don't you?
Speaker 2:know that it's worth every treasure on earth to be young at heart. Well, anyway, here's my question Is there? What does it take for a family to trust you to come over, like, how does the process work? Okay, I recognize, you know, my dad's a little depressed, could probably use some. You know he used to like to go fishing or he used to like to, you know, go for walks with, go for walks with the dog. Um, I don't have time, I don't live there. My mom, you know, can't. So where do you, where do they find you? And how does the process work where you gain their trust enough to say, okay, we're going to have Brian come over, you know, once a week take dad out for four hours a day, or, you know, just paint with him or go on walks, like, where? How do you break down that level of, of, you know, I guess, skepticism and build that trust?
Speaker 3:Well, that's that's. That's a great question. Well, first of all, my business is only me and I'm selling me. So I'm not going in there saying, you know, we do the greatest work and then I send 10 other people so we do me. So that's one of my, that's one of my biggest things. So they, they have to know me, and the reason I doing it that way is because I can trust me, I know me and I enjoy thoroughly what I do and it makes me happy. And once I start hiring people.
Speaker 3:Now I'm just a business bill supposed to bill. Doesn't show up. I get a phone call.
Speaker 3:That's not why I got into this business. I got into this business to make myself happy, the client happy and the family happy, because I'm never hired by the client by the way, it's always a family member or spouse and I do a. Well, I have a personal intake form where I ask questions about them and they fill it out what were the activities they used to do, what activities would they like to do? And then I have a free meeting. So I do a free one-on-one with the family member and the client and they just get to know me, just Brian to the client. They don't really know what I do, I'm just a friend of the family. And then it's like oh hey, dad, would you like to see Brian again? Yeah, sure, so that's that's really how it works.
Speaker 3:I always do the free one-on-one because I mean it's always work, knock on wood. But you know, once, once you know, hopefully they meet me and you know again, I'm full of, I try and be full of life. And I've had people that say you know my father or my you know they're, they're kind of angry and and I never get that from them because I'm coming in from a different angle, I'm coming in from happiness. Different angle I'm coming in right, missing fun, so I don't see those sides of them. Yeah, but that's how they gain the trust they, you know it's usually referral I get almost nothing from the internet.
Speaker 2:It's all just word based and, uh, word of mouth. And then you said referral. So you know somebody's hired you and they see the difference in their um and their parent or their spouse and someone they know is kind of going through the same thing and that's, that's how it works.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And again, they know I am coming every week and I just build such strong relationships with with the families and the client. You know it's it's hard sometimes because of what you know what, what I see and where it goes, but you know I love. It's hard sometimes because of what I see and where it goes, but you know, I love it all the same. You know that's just there to make their lives happier and and in turn it's making my life happier. So it's, it's kind of a win, win.
Speaker 2:Now, do you only work with seniors, and what age is considered a senior? Like where does it start? Have you ever had like an adult who is maybe in their forties or fifties, that you know is alone and maybe? Well, you don't really work with special needs, right? So no very great question.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do so, I have. I have one client now who's 58, who has Asperger's. So he's, you know he drives and he just, you know socially, you know he needs to, you know he's not where we are socially. So his family hired me to take him out and he's a client that I take to concerts. He loves music. So we've gone. We've seen the Eagles, we've seen ELO. I'll go to Bergen Pack in Englewood.
Speaker 2:That was the first concert I ever saw was ELO.
Speaker 3:Oh, really Well.
Speaker 2:Madison Square Garden there out of the blue tour. Wow, look at that.
Speaker 3:Well, we just saw them a couple of months ago, really Wow.
Speaker 3:So so he's that I have a client who's actually 33 years old, believe it or not, and he has, he has anxiety and he he was in a, he's in a group home right now and he's trying to get back into the world but he has anxiety. So he has his, his social workers and his medical team, and it was brought up that he just needs someone to go out with and get him out. And you know, talk about real life things, and so so I see him and you know we try and I try and get him to the gym Again. He has his anxieties, but we, just I, we try and try and make him laugh and just be me and make him feel comfortable, and so so it really doesn't matter the age, it's just, you know, 90% of my clients are are, you know, my, my, my main range is 80 to 85. You know, I have one 94 year old, I have one who just turned 97 last week, um, but most are in their mid eighties. I would say.
Speaker 2:So you started this business during COVID or after, like when the restrictions kind of lockdowns kind of lifted. Yeah, when the restrictions lifted.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was kind of like right after I was developing it, during it I would say OK, and then, yeah, it got going. You know, I wasn't really wearing masks once I started doing it.
Speaker 2:And the reason I ask is because there was a lot of isolation during that time. And, um, you know, one of the things I think you uh address is the dangers of isolation, especially in an age of social media, when everybody's, you know, thinks that texting or DMS is, is a human connection. Um, now, I know that, uh, that so the isolation. So you you have, I don't know, have you written a lot of blogs? Or, to the blogs that I've seen addressing, you know, the need for what you offer, Is that other people written about this? Or have you written things about the need for companionship and the benefits and things like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's that's. Other people have written it and I've kind of tweaked it for my for myself, but it's very important. You know there's so much out there about isolation and you know the decline of, you know, of cognitive, you know the mind, if you will. When you know you're alone because you just it's, it's a downward spiral, as I call it. When you know you're alone because you just it's a downward spiral, as I call it. And you know all people need is that human connection to be listened to.
Speaker 3:You know my job isn't always fun and games.
Speaker 3:You know I don't go fishing every week with the client or I don't go to the, you know, and a lot of times it's just me with the client.
Speaker 3:You know, listening to them and walking and and sometimes they don't. You know, listening to them and walking and and sometimes they don't. You know I'm not being asked a lot of questions, so it does get difficult at times but my job is to have no silence and to keep talking. But it's so important for them and I just I ask questions off of what they say and I try and dig deep and get their mind working again. And you know, ask them about, you know, their favorite vacation or fun things that happened, you know. You know things come up of course in their lives that aren't good, but you know that sometimes they want to get that off of their chest too. But I'm, I'm more there for the fun, but I'm certainly empathetic and I listen, and you know, I just I just want them to feel heard, and that's you know. I just I just want them to feel heard, and that's you know to, to someone who's alone.
Speaker 2:You know there's so much about storytelling, brain science, you know neuroscience behind the power of storytelling. How it, you know, when you're kind of drawn in and immersed in a story, how it your brain releases oxytocin, which is some call it the oxytocin is a drug, a hormone. I don't know what it is, but anyway, um, and you know one of the things that I, you know that my big, uh, I guess raison d'etre if I pronounce that properly my reason for being is to be a storyteller and to give people a platform and a line that I stole from A Star is Born, which is, if you have something to say, in a way to say it so that people listen. That's a whole other bag. What I've been exploring and I was talking to Jillian, who we know from the networking events, so working with the senior community and using my magazines as a way to tell their story of a part of their life, part of it is like when Harry met Sally. I'm thinking of when Harry met Sally, how Rob Reiner would go back to interviewing these elderly couples and talking about how they met each other or what their love story was like, and my mother, who is going to be 90 in May.
Speaker 2:My father just turned 90. They still live alone in Florida, but my sister's there with a ton of grandkids, my parents, my mother, for the first time now. I knew when my mother was 21, it was 1956. I knew when she was in her younger years, before she met my dad. She and her girlfriend drove from Queens, new York, out West. But it was the first time that I heard that my mother met Elvis Presley and she's like, not only did I meet him but I have his autograph. I'm like what?
Speaker 2:So, she mailed me the business card of his autograph that she got from Elvis when he landed in LA. It and I looked it up and my mother my mother kept a journal back then. It was august 16, 1956. Elvis was landing in la to shoot his very first film of nintendo and when he got off the plane there were hordes of teenagers. It's actually this video of it you could find on instagram. Oh my god, I was trying to find my mother and she's like you know. She was 21. She was surrounded by all these teens. She wasn't really an el fan but she got caught up in it and she just asked somebody for a piece of paper and she got a business card and he signed it. Now I'm going to tell that story. In one of my magazines I have an antique dealer and he writes an article called Ask the Appraiser, kind of like an antique roadshow. So we're going to tell that story. My mother has the parking ticket. She sent me at the airport for parking a car illegally to go see Elvis. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:But the point I'm getting to is I've been wanting to have my parents tell their story. They grew up during the Depression. My mother grew up in a German-speaking neighborhood in Queens during World War II Not a very popular time to be German Right and you know my parent, my grandparents, owned a fish market. They owned another fish market, like I had on my mother's side some very uh, business-minded entrepreneur type of family, but then my grandparents separated before I was born. I never knew why. Um, my grandfather wasn't the happiest of guys when he died. We hadn't seen him for two years.
Speaker 2:So there's a story that I want to get out and I'm thinking of actually having my mom and dad on a podcast because then I can record it all. But I'm sharing all this because, as I looking into what you do and how you talk about the process of storytelling and how it's cathartic, and I could see how you know there is science behind the value of what you bring. So, with that science and with the blogs and with maybe the popularity, are you seeing more companies like you coming into the, into the fold that are maybe your competitors that are doing what you do?
Speaker 3:Not, not too much. It's just, you know everyone which you know. I just created something for me. I didn't know. Everyone's like, oh, it's so new and it's so exciting and I'm like, is it really like? I don't. To me, it's just what I want to do. But the thing with most companies is that they have companions and they do more medical companions and they do, you know, they do go for walks and they do things like that, but there's just not a lot of because, again, it's just me.
Speaker 3:You know, a lot of people get into business to become a millionaire. You know what mean to grow and grow and grow. I didn't do it for that, so you know. So someone else has to be able to do what I do and just say you know and you listen, you can build a business like mine and and hire people, you know. Sure, you can, but I just don't know of anybody yet, you know, because I've, so I've only been around for, you know, two years, two and a half years. So I'm not that new, you know, or sorry, I am very new.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, we'll see, we'll, we'll see what happens with, with my business model, you know there's always so much of you can go around if you start getting so much demand, but it's tough to clone you. You have to find someone who has the caring and the um compassion, someone who has the caring and the compassion and the desire to do what you do. So let me ask you this so do you go to assisted living and senior care communities and work with people who live there, but then just go visit them and take them out?
Speaker 3:Yes, Great question, doug, I was actually going to say that and I forgot. So, yeah, so I work with from from every. You know people that, people that live alone, people that live with their spouse. I, you know, I have clients that are in assisted living and I have one client that's actually in memory care, which you would think wouldn't work for me, but he is in that. I call it the sad stage where he, he was in assisted living and you start the decline and there just were a few things safety wise, where they, they needed to put him in memory care. So he, he knows where, you know like he, he accepts it and he feels it's a safety thing. But but we talk and you know I, I take him out. You know I'm allowed to take him out because he's physically able, yeah, um, so so, yeah, so I I'm in assisted living, independent living, memory care, and you know people that live in their own um, in their own house. So it runs the full gamut, you know, yeah, and what's?
Speaker 2:what's your radius of how far will you travel?
Speaker 3:so I've. I've traveled. I've had one client actually the one that unfortunately he had al's and he he was about an hour away. But when I took him I know I spoke to the wife and I wanted to just try it and she was just so happy because he took to me and he didn't take to a lot of people and he took to me and he wanted to leave. You know he was happy to go with me in my car. So you know, if it's a little further, I asked for mileage for you know, to get there, but but the most I go regularly is a half an hour.
Speaker 2:I usually travel a half an hour at the most. Okay, and that's Rockland and Burden County, yeah.
Speaker 3:I used to market a little bit in Westchester. I do have one client in Westchester, but that bridge is a bridge is a killer. Yeah, yeah, depending on the time of day, it seems you know pretty close as the crow flies. But yeah, the Bergen is. Is is perfect for me because you know I'm five minutes from Bergen County and you know, there's no traffic and so yeah, so that's that's my yeah.
Speaker 2:That's true, there's no bridges to go over? No, I never have, Even when I travel far.
Speaker 3:it was really never an issue, so right. Right and and timing is very important to me because I'm back to back. You know it's all scheduled, Right, Right.
Speaker 2:And so if I stuck in bridge traffic that just throws it all off. Yeah, so.
Speaker 3:Brian, what's? What's the best way to reach Silver Stage Motivators? Uh, the best way is you could go to my website at silverstagemotivatorscom or you could call uh a business line at 845-422-6254. Um, those are the best ways that you could always Google me. You know, you know I have google. You could look at my google reviews from you know, family members, uh, you know, to see what I do, or what I've done for their families, and you know how they're very happy and uh, so, yeah, that's that's the best way to reach me, and you know if it feels like the right fit.
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes I get calls and they need more medical and I say sorry, it won't work. Or they say we need someone for five days a week. I say that's not who, that's not what I do. You know, there's many, many other companies who will be very happy to you know you know work with your parents, you know for five days a week or seven days a week it's just just not who I am, so I do get calls that it just doesn't work out which or, you know, can you take my dad to the doctor?
Speaker 2:You're not a concierge like that.
Speaker 3:Correct, Right If people say, yeah, could you drive my dad? I get those calls. I said no, that's not me either.
Speaker 2:I know somebody who does that business so I can refer you to them, right? Oh, absolutely, and that's the good thing is that well, you know referrals.
Speaker 3:It makes you feel so good. It's one of my things in my presentation presentation about positivity and happiness. What makes us happy and one of my little segments is giving.
Speaker 2:We love to give makes us feel so good to give right, you know whatever it is give a referral makes you feel great you know it makes you feel great so there's another, another famous rock and roll guy who has a line that goes the love you take or the love you make is equal to the love you take. Who is that? I know that Paul McCartney.
Speaker 2:Paul McCartney yeah, In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. Last song of Abbey Road. Anyway, brian, this was great. I really appreciate you joining us. So again, it's SilverSt's silver stage motivatorscom. The phone number is 845-422-6254. It's going to be in the bottom of our summary on the on the podcast episode, but thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to have Chuck take us out and you and I'll be right back. All right, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the good neighbor Podcast. To nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show, go to gnpbergencom. That's gnpbergencom, or call 201-298-8325.