Episode 8: Food of The Gods

Join your favorite witches, River, Skye, and Poppy, on a culinary journey through the divine realms! This week on Death Coven, we're exploring the fascinating world of foods associated with different deities.

Discover the symbolism behind offerings to The Morrigan, such as apples and milk, and delve into the underworld delicacies favored by Persephone and Hades, like pomegranates and quince. We'll even discuss the more shocking practices associated with Dionysus, including the ancient ritual of omophagy (live sacrifice).

Get ready for a mouthwatering exploration of the intersection between food, folklore, and faith. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!

***IF YOU WANT TO SKIP THE LIVE SACRIFICE PORTION SKIP 36:38-44:39!!***

email: deathcovenpod@gmail.com
instagram: @deathcovenpod

Rescources:

Dionysus- 
The Rituals of Sparagmos and Omophagy in Tragedy, Romance, and Horror Genres by David S. Stymeist

https://mspace.lib.umanitoba.ca/bitstream/1993/19049/1/Stymeist_The_rituals.pdf

Koliva Recipe

https://www.hellenion.org/recipes/recipe-for-koliva/

The Morrigan-
Celtic Lore and Spellcraft of the Dark Goddess: Invoking The Morrigan by Stephanie Woodfield

Herbs: Medicine & Mysticism by Sybil Leek

Guinness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness

Horses Drinking Beer: https://www.petmd.com/horse/can-horses-drink-beer

"The Taking of Connla": https://emeraldisle.ie/the-taking-of-connla

Persephone & Hades-
Pomegranates: Rich in History and Taste by Lorna J Sass

Quince: Myth, Magic, and Modern Devotion by Jamie Waggoner 

Cooking Quince Made Easy: mycancalekitchen.com

Transcript

River 0:18

Like to play a game. The room is filling with poison gas.

Poppy 0:24

I'm glad that I ate before this episode, because otherwise I think it would make me

Skye 0:32

How's your tummy?

Poppy 0:35

My tummy's fine. I'm doing, it's strong today.

River 0:39

Ooh, no shits? no nervous shits? Well, anyway, I'm River. Have a gut of steel. I don't know,

Poppy 0:53

Yeah, we need to, we need to, okay, let me see.

River 0:57

We're professional podcasters, shift into the podcast

Poppy 1:00

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Welcome back. Yeah. Welcome. Hello. Hello. Hello.

River 1:11

Hi, everybody.

Poppy 1:13

welcome back to death coven, the podcast where a death coven tells you about what it's like to be in a death coven, Um, happy to have you, uh, as a reminder, I am a Poppy,

River 1:27

Happy to be halved. I am River.

Skye 1:29

Skye.

Poppy 1:29

beautiful, gorgeous. Um, and today we are going to be talking about foods of the gods. Mmm. Mm, mm, mm. Hope you ate a little something before, cause you're gonna get a little, little peckish.

River 1:46

You might. Some of these things, it's like, ooh, that sounds good.

Skye 1:51

little treat.

Poppy 1:51

Mm. And some of them, I don't know. Well, I don't know what you guys are talking about yet. I have kind of a vague idea, but I'm not 100p.

River 2:00

You will be.

Skye 2:01

Yeah, we've got secrets. In store.

River 2:04

I'm rubbing my little rat paws together.

Poppy 2:07

Yeah, so I think the plan is, uh, each of us is gonna talk about a couple foods that are typically associated with the gods that we worship. I have no idea what they have planned. I know what I have planned, and I guess we'll just see how it shakes out. Um, but before we get started, I have another fun little hypothetical game. Wow, Hermes is just up in the camera right

River 2:30

Get a load of this guy, Cam.

Poppy 2:33

I think, does he want your mead? Mm

River 2:37

I don't know what he wants today, but he's being a real brat, and he did jump on and tackle Garnet really bad earlier, about an hour ago. So he He wants love and he wants affection and now he's sniffing her because she's laying down behind my laptop and he's all, there it goes.

Skye 2:54

He's being a little rascal.

River 2:55

He just wants love like we all do but he's going about it in all the wrong ways like we all do so if anybody hears growling or grumbling or hissing or spitting it's fine. Don't worry about it, it's under control. They just hate each other a little bit.

Poppy 3:15

He loves her.

River 3:16

He loves her and he's obsessed with her, but she hates him a little bit.

Poppy 3:20

That's kind of how Harvey and Pickle are.

River 3:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Poppy 3:26

woman, and he's a little rascal that just wants to step all over her and, and play tag and whatnot. She's like, leave me alone.

River 3:35

be best friends, Hermes and Harvey.

Poppy 3:38

Oh yeah, absolutely. And Gus probably. And Barry.

Skye 3:42

All the good boys.

Poppy 3:44

All the boys. Yeah. We, we have a hypothetical little game and I actually have two prepared. So I'm going to give you guys the option. Do you want something grounded in present day, or do you want something, like, historical?

River 4:00

What kind of historical are we talking here? Oh,

Poppy 4:03

I'm not giving you any more information, buddy.

Skye 4:06

Let's go old because we're kind of going back a little bit today. You know what I mean?

River 4:11

I kind of hate it in the present time right now. I'd rather be somewhere else. I think.

Poppy 4:16

Alright. I'll save that other one for, next episode then, I guess. Alright, so, in this scenario, you do not have a choice in this, by the way. This is happening to you. You cannot escape it. On a random day, we'll say today, All of the sudden, out of nowhere, you are transported back to the year 1350 and you're dropped somewhere random in Europe. Just somewhere. You only have what you're wearing right now, whatever you have in your pockets right now. You have to survive a year. Before you can come back. What's your strat? What's your plan? How are you gonna do it?

River 5:00

Oh,

Poppy 5:00

Or do you just take the L? Do you just die?

River 5:03

boned. You know what I'm wearing right now? I'm wearing comfortable house pants, a black t shirt that says I have no tits on it,

Poppy 5:13

No.

River 5:13

and a glasses chain. And you know what I have the only thing on my person right this second? My cell phone and my vape.

Poppy 5:22

Mm

River 5:23

I'm,

Poppy 5:23

I mean,

River 5:24

gone.

Skye 5:24

got?

Poppy 5:25

you could probably make some money with those

Skye 5:27

Yeah, I have similar, I have sort of like joggers on a black, plain black t shirt, a necklace with Moldavite on it, a black bandana, and I pulled one singular US dollar out of my pocket.

Poppy 5:42

Mm

Skye 5:43

I, and I also have my vape, no cell phone. It's on the desk beside me, but it was not in my pocket. It was not on my person. Oh, and my kitty cat headphones.

Poppy 5:54

hmm. Mm

River 5:54

earbud. That's what's gonna get

Skye 5:57

I think the kitty cat earphones could get me a Especially

Poppy 6:01

Or they'll think you're a witch and you'll just be burned.

Skye 6:05

or something, like, they're gonna think I'm

River 6:07

yeah, I'm tatted up. I've got piercings. They're not gonna like me one bit. I'm

Skye 6:14

Mmm.

Poppy 6:15

did they have tattoos like back in the, I'm sure they did. I don't know if they did. in

River 6:20

not like popularized. Yeah, it was very counterculture.

Skye 6:24

goal?

River 6:26

How do you survive for a year, or do you just die immediately?

Poppy 6:29

I also want to say one more thing. So, um, 1350, we're about three years into the black death also. I didn't mention that, but yes, it is sweeping through Europe. You're not vaccinated against the plague.

River 6:47

you know, I think I just have a grand old time until something took me out.

Poppy 6:52

Mm hmm.

River 6:53

Cuz I'm a frail, ill, sickly person in the current age with all my vaccines and medicines. It would not take much to take

Skye 7:01

Really, realistically, I think it would be prostitution until I get syphilis and die.

Poppy 7:06

Yeah. yeah. I mean, syphilis takes a really long time to kill you, so you'd probably last

Skye 7:12

Well, the Black Plague would probably get me then.

Poppy 7:15

Yeah, possible. You wouldn't I mean, I feel like I almost would want to just try my luck, like, in the wilds, you know?

Skye 7:25

Coming from you, that makes

Poppy 7:27

But

River 7:28

yeah, I don't know enough about plant identification to be like, this definitely won't kill me if I eat

Poppy 7:33

Yeah. Well, the thing is, too Even if you're in, like, England, if you're in England, you might, I mean, you won't speak the language. English was not the same in 1350. You would not have a goddamn clue what anyone's saying.

River 7:49

I could be mute. I could pretend to be

Skye 7:51

Deaf, dumb, and blind?

River 7:52

And yeah, I could just, you know, be a lowly but loyal blacksmith assistant or some shit. I can carry some stuff.

Poppy 8:04

Yeah. You're too old to be an

Skye 8:05

no, you're hauling grains or something off of, like,

River 8:08

Yeah, I'm just stealing, probably. Yeah, I'm just sneaking into people's houses and taking shit.

Poppy 8:17

how about monk? Monkhood?

River 8:21

Ooh, I, I hadn't considered that, but I'm tatted up and I got piercings.

Poppy 8:26

I mean, if you're, they're not gonna see you naked, probably. You can probably just like, go in with your long clothes

Skye 8:32

Donna Cloak.

River 8:33

I'm wearing a T-shirt that says I have no tits. Where am I gonna get a

Poppy 8:38

though.

Skye 8:39

Steal it.

River 8:40

I walk into the monastery with my cty little T-shirt,

Skye 8:43

probably walk past lots of dead bodies just on the street that are wearing cloaks. You could probably just steal one off of a dead person.

River 8:49

and I'm gonna get the Black Death.

Poppy 8:52

Only if it has like, pus and stuff on it, or fleas, if it has the

River 8:55

brother, you know, it had fleas on it.

Poppy 8:57

Yeah. Okay, so um, I guess, are we all just gonna die then? We're, we have zero confidence we're gonna

Skye 9:05

I'd try, but I would probably get killed or die of some disease. Yeah.

River 9:10

would not get very far.

Poppy 9:13

Okay, well,

Skye 9:14

Bummer.

Poppy 9:15

hopefully that doesn't happen.

River 9:17

Yeah, hope not. Would hate

Poppy 9:18

I blink and I snap my fingers and it happens right now. We all vortex back. Where would you want to be? Like, where would you want to be plopped? Like

River 9:27

At that year, in that

Poppy 9:29

France, Spain?

River 9:36

Okay, expand on that.

Skye 9:38

I think they'd be more open to the tattoos. And like my strange apparel, I feel like they'd be like, are you from one of the islands? Like around up there, you know, but with like my foreign tongue is kind of Anglo Saxon adjacent. Um, the, the piercing, you know what I mean? Like I, I have like, I don't know. I just feel like I have a braid in my hair currently. I don't know.

River 10:07

You'd fit right in. It'd be no trouble. They'd take you in

Skye 10:10

it's high risk, high reward. I think that they would either kill me immediately, which is, could be a benefit or they'd be like, willing to hear me out. And be like, what's her deal? Like, let's investigate her. Maybe they put me in like a cellar or something. And like, they'd put me in the dungeon to like interrogate me. Um, and that might also be my demise as well, but

River 10:29

Yeah.

Poppy 10:30

You're too small to make a good bride. Like a good, like, Scandinavian mommy.

Skye 10:36

I am. I wouldn't produce, um, tall children probably. My hips are

Poppy 10:41

Honestly, I would probably die in childbirth. But if you can put it off, if you can wait, like, six months to get pregnant, then you can have your weird middle aged, not middle aged, god, medieval baby

River 10:51

That would be so fucked

Skye 10:53

be middle aged, I think, for them, then.

River 10:57

At that time,

Skye 10:58

I'm past my childbearing years, for them. Like, I

Poppy 11:02

them. Yeah.

Skye 11:03

now.

River 11:04

Yeah. You're real matronly now.

Skye 11:07

I don't know.

Poppy 11:08

No, you really, you should have been married, like, 20 years ago.

Skye 11:11

Oh my god.

Poppy 11:12

It's the truth!

Skye 11:14

I hadn't had my first bleed yet, though.

Poppy 11:19

Ugh, bleh.

Skye 11:20

My first bleed was at 12.

Poppy 11:23

Oh. Mine wasn't until I was 17, so I don't know if that would keep me safe though.

Skye 11:30

No, they'd be like, something's wrong with her. She hasn't bled yet.

Poppy 11:33

She's defective, yeah.

River 11:35

We got a killer.

Poppy 11:36

repressing her with her witchy

Skye 11:38

she's a witch for sure.

Poppy 11:40

do also have like a weird birthmark.

River 11:43

Mmm.

Poppy 11:43

So, a witch's tit, or witch's teat. Is that what they call

Skye 11:49

You have a third nipple?

Poppy 11:50

Witch nipple? No, I don't have a third nipple, but I do have a mole, and I'm pretty sure they, you know, I mean, at least in like the Salem Witch Trials, they're like looking around people's bodies, trying to, trying to find the, uh, the moles and whatnot. Oh, yeah, to feed the, to breastfeed their familiars with their weird, uh, knee mole or wherever

River 12:14

I think they're

Poppy 12:14

Okay, well,

River 12:21

Hey, great segue talking about witch's milk into what we're talking about today. It's

Poppy 12:28

Are you gonna, you gonna pop off, River?

River 12:31

I'm gonna pop. I'm going to pop into everybody's earbuds and speakers and cars, I suppose, wherever you're listening today. Did we say what today's episode is already? Okay. It's, we started talking about which tits and I got distracted, but today we are talking about foods and we are going, Poppy said it all. I don't know why I'm trying to re explain what's already been said. So I have my notes up on my little computer because I live in the year 2024 and I get to take advantage of all the technological advances we have such as laptops and, uh, treatment for syphilis.

Poppy 13:15

You don't have your little quill in your little parchment

River 13:18

I don't have one quill. Can you believe I don't have a single

Poppy 13:21

Honestly, I can't believe that you don't have a quill, of

River 13:24

I'm saying like it's on brand for me, right?

Poppy 13:27

We need to get them a quill. Tootsweet.

River 13:29

Please? I would love a little quill. You couldn't do I'd be insufferable. You couldn't tell me nothing if I had a quill.

Poppy 13:38

Tuck it behind your little ear.

River 13:40

Like a little cigarette, but it's a

Poppy 13:43

Yeah, like an artsy little teen. Anyway.

River 13:48

right. I'm locking in. I'm being professional now. This can all get cut out in the edit, but today I get to tell you about food for Dionysus How exciting is

Skye 14:00

Delish.

River 14:02

I'm excited. I had a lot of There's a lot of things and foods he's associated with because he's the god of all vegetation. So that really sort of can be anything. And I was like, that's too much. That's overwhelming. I got to narrow it down and lock into a few things. that I am interested in. And I'm not going to really talk about grapes and wine so much because that's so obvious. You can find that anywhere. It's really not. It's the most common, largest resource research pool there is. But I want to talk to you guys about, I don't know where my brain's at. I'm a bad podcaster today, by the way. I feel like I'm doing a really bad job. But,

Poppy 14:57

for transparency, this is the first time we've recorded in like three weeks, so we're kind of getting back into the groove. We've all forgotten how to be people.

River 15:05

Yeah, I forget how to be a person every single day. I have to relearn it and now I have to do it and also perform at the same time. And I'm like, Oh,

Poppy 15:15

Dance monkey.

River 15:18

So first, before I talk to you guys about food, I have to tell you guys about anthostaria. Raise your hand if you know what Anthesteria is. Crickets. Nobody raise their hand. And that's okay. Anthesteria was a three day festival for Dionysus. It took place from the 11th to the 13th in the month of Anthesterion. Which was named after the festival and the festival was not named after the month, which I thought was really interesting and the Hellenic calendar is lunar based. So there's not really a one to one translation of what. Anthostarian would be in today's months, but it was around the time of the February full moon. Probably there was different sources saying it was, you know, the January, February full moon or the February, March full moon, like early, early, early days of spring when the tulips are just starting to come back. Pretty much.

Poppy 16:25

Was this, um, was this talked about in the Path of Shadows book?

River 16:30

Could have been, it's been a really long time since I read it,

Poppy 16:33

mm hmm. Is this the one where like Dionysus and Apollo are kind of switching place? Or is it just

River 16:40

I don't know.

Poppy 16:40

Dionysus? Okay.

River 16:41

Yeah, it's just Dionysus on this one. That's

Poppy 16:43

Gotcha. It's like, cause I know that there's like a big festival where

River 16:47

yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of big Dionysus festivals. Um, I don't know. I would have to reread the book again. But day one of Anthestaria, I do have the actual Greek names for the days. I cannot pronounce them. So I'm going to go with the translated English version that I have in parentheses next to the proper Greek name. So day one is the jar opening. We're opening the jars. We're opening the casks of wine from the previous year that are fermented and finally ready to be drunk. We're pouring out libations. All, everyone is joining in on the festivity. Everyone, the slaves, the children, don't matter what your class is. You are all invited to the party. They would use the early spring flowers to decorate the houses and the drinking vessels and they would decorate themselves in little flowers. It was very cute. It was very fun. But the first and second day of Anthesteria were regarded as unlucky and defiled because The dead are coming back up from the underworld. So, uh, We have to give them libations. We have to make amends. We have to atone. And we also have to chew hawthorn and buckthorn leaves and smear our doors with tar to protect ourselves from evil.

Poppy 18:20

Probably, like, nail an owl to the door, too.

River 18:22

something like that. It's a little bit of like, Hey, we're kicking back and we're celebrating like the, the harvest of wine from last year, but also Watch out, don't have too much fun, but it was, uh, largely celebratory. A lot of people did have a lot of fun with it. Regardless. Day two of the festival is the pouring, which is a general merrymaking. People are dressing up in funny little outfits. Sometimes they would dress up as like a Seder or a Maynard to honor Dionysus and his entourage. They held a drinking contest. People would visit their graves and leave out offerings for their departed. And also, on day two, there was a secret, special ceremony that would happen once a year in the Sanctuary of Dionysus, which was closed throughout the rest of the year. That's how secret this was. Do you want to know what the festival was? Go ahead.

Skye 19:27

Is this like a secret society, like it's not for everyone?

River 19:31

Yes, because the cult of Dionysus was a mystery cult. If you were not initiated, you did not get to know what

Skye 19:38

So the people who were dressed up So the people who were dressed up as like satyrs and stuff were the ones who got to go in?

River 19:46

It was more like everyone knew Dionysus's deal pretty like in the zeitgeist. But like the real meat of the cult, like the real secret stuff, the larger public didn't really know that. That was more reserved. So you could dress up in a funny little outfit and like drink and have a ball, but if you want to get on the secret ceremony, you got to be initiated. So yeah, do you guys want to know? Do you guys want to know what the ceremony is?

Poppy 20:16

Yeah. Are there penises involved?

River 20:18

Yes. At the beginning of the festival, there's a procession And the procession is always led by a large phallic statue, but there's another penis involved in this one. So in this ritual, the queen of Athens underwent a ceremony of marriage to Dionysus. Yeah, chew on that for a second. And she was assisted,

Poppy 20:47

married?

River 20:48

we'll get into that,

Poppy 20:50

Okay.

River 20:51

um, don't worry, I'm gonna get into the nitty gritty of it. She was assisted by 14 Athenian priestesses who were matrons chosen by her husband, the King Magistrate, so he was in on it too. It was a fertility ceremony, it was for the land, it was for the community, it was for Like, Hey, we're going to have a great time because you're going to get married to Dionysus and that's fertile as fuck. And anything can happen. Don't worry about it. everyone in the ceremony was sworn to secrecy. You were not allowed to talk about it. You were not allowed to invite anybody into it. It happened. And then you went about your business. The ceremony was regarded as a symbolic recreation of Dionysus's marriage to his wife, Ariadne.

Poppy 21:43

Mm-Hmm.

River 21:44

And the marriage was consummated by the king magistrate who was acting in the part of Dionysus or it was believed that Dionysus was possessing him to consummate the marriage.

Poppy 21:56

Huh?

River 21:57

cool with it.

Poppy 21:59

It's kind of cookie.

River 22:00

It's a little, but it's also like you're fucking your wife, you know,

Poppy 22:04

But also like

River 22:05

but Dionysus is fucking your wife. Yeah. Yeah.

Poppy 22:07

Yeah.

Skye 22:09

Question. Would they consummate in front of the rest of the cult of Dionysus?

River 22:16

who's to say, it's sworn to secrecy. It's a, it's a miracle. We even know that much, honestly.

Skye 22:22

Someone was a narc at some point. Sure.

River 22:25

someone and people found like ancient texts and scrolls and such, but I'll leave that up to your imagination. It can be whatever you want it to be.

Skye 22:36

I like to think

River 22:37

It can be like that scene in Midsommar where everyone is just like standing around the consummation like cheering, you know? Yeah. But then we go on to day three, the final day of the festivities, and that is called the Pots. And this, the Pots! And that was the big Time for honoring the dead. That was essentially like the day of the dead for them. They would leave out food, they would give that food to Hermes in regards to his role as a catho psycho pump. So he would take that food, use that energy to usher the dead back into the underworld because it was time for them to go. Cause their festival's done and over and they can't be up on the overworld anymore. But, it's close, he's got, he's got his um, his Beats by Dre speaker on the top of his staff and he said, alright girls,

Skye 23:41

He's standing by the table, like the offering table, and he's like, everyone gets one, but keep it moving.

River 23:46

Yeah, we gotta go. You get one, and you gotta go home. But even though it was a very somber day and a somber occasion, people still played games, they were still drinking, they did not consume any of the food they ate, because that was for the dead, and you can't do that lest you die, obviously. And also during the last day, they would partake in sort of pseudo auditions and rehearsals for the Dionysia, which was the big theater festival for Dionysus, which would take place later in the year, so they're already prepping and planning for the next event. And also an interesting thing I found was that British classical scholar and linguist Jane Ellen Harrison argued that the jars in question should also or instead be understood as the urns used for burial. Which would make the festival a celebration of opening the graves, initiating the arrival of the dead amongst the living, and then making their departure back to the underworld, which would once again exemplify the dual nature of Dionysus, having the literal casks of wine be opened and the more symbolic act of the dead coming back and welcoming them.

Poppy 25:03

Love that.

River 25:04

Love that. Love everything about that. Wish I could take part. That sounds like a blast and a hoot. And then my second food I get to tell you about is. Tied into Anthesteria because the food that they would leave out on the final day for memorial has similarities to the dish Kaleva. Raise your hand if you've heard of Kaleva. Crickets, nobody raised their hand. That's okay. It, it is a Greek Orthodox memorial dish. The origins of it, however, predate Christianity because it's very similar to the legumes and fruit and dates and such that were readily accessible and available to leave out during ancient Greece. The ritual food passed from Paganism to early Christianity in Byzantium.

Poppy 26:02

bi. I think it's Byzantine Byzantium?

River 26:06

Okay, we'll do that. Also, Garnet had a sneezing fit. I'm so sorry if you heard that. She's got allergies. But,

Poppy 26:12

it? Is it not Byzantine?

River 26:15

I don't know. I'm just, I'm going off of what I found online. It could be anything. Alls I know is it spread to the entire orthodox world after that. It blowed up in Christianity. Christians love that shit. Now khalifa is a wheat berry dish. It symbolizes everlasting life based on two Bible verses that compare the death and rebirth of the grain of wheat to the resurrection of the dead. And those two Bible, Nope.

Poppy 26:46

Sorry, what's a wheatberry?

River 26:48

A wheat berry is a wheat kernel.

Poppy 26:51

Oh, okay.

River 26:52

interchangeably, you know, me either until I researched this and I was like, that's crazy. But those two Bible verses are John 12, 24, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains just a grain of wheat. But if it dies, it produces much fruit. Amen. Beautiful. And the second Bible verse is a first Corinthians 1536. What you sow does not come to life until it dies. Which are big things in Dionysian culture, you know, you're not alive until you die. You can't be alive until you die. Gorgeous. Never read it before, but I thought that popped off. And if you would like to make khalifa at home, I have a recipe for you. Would you like to hear it?

Poppy 27:40

Yes.

River 27:41

Okay. All right. Twist my arm. Now this recipe I got from hellenian. org. And this recipe will feed about 60 people. So it's a big one. This is for big events. You can, you know, you can alter it, have it quarter it, whatever you need to do if you want to make it at

Skye 28:01

Question.

River 28:03

Yes.

Skye 28:03

one serving size per person?

River 28:07

Uh, depends, depends on how much you have. I think it's like a, like those big, I'll, I'll tell you how it's presented. Don't worry about that. Let me get through the ingredients in the recipe first. So for the ingredients, it's in, grams, but I'm gonna leave it that way. You're smart and the internet exists and you can figure out conversions for measurements. Go crazy. So you will need one kilogram of soft wheat kernels, often called wheat berries, one kilogram of barley. It can be made with rice, but that's less traditional. You're, you know, you can, but barley is usually the standard. You need 500 grams of ground almonds, roasted lightly. You need 250 grams of whole blanched almonds. You need 1 kilogram of sesame seeds, lightly roasted. 500 grams of raisins, 2 tablespoons of ground cinnamon, and 1 kilogram of honey. yum, yum, yum.

Poppy 29:09

Damn. Yeah. Mental math. That's like 10 pounds.

River 29:13

yeah. it feeds 60 people. So what you're going to want to do with these 10 pounds of ingredients, the day before you're going to serve it, you're going to want to soak the wheat and barley until it's soft. You're going to want to rinse and drain the grains, put them in a large pot and cover them with water. Okay. Bring them to a boil, then lower the heat. You want to cook them for about an hour. Don't overcook them so that the grains explode, but you want to make sure they're soft enough to eat. Then you're going to want to pour your hot grains into either one large one or two small ones. Drain them out, rinse them with cold water so it stops the cooking process. Once they've cooled, you're going to want to drain and spread the grains on cookie sheets to dry, which can be done overnight in the fridge. When they're dry, you're going to want to transfer the grains to a large bowl and add the lightly roasted ground almonds, the lightly roasted sesame seeds, and some of the whole blanched almonds. You're going to want to save the rest of the almonds to decorate it with later.

Poppy 30:17

Little smiley face

River 30:18

You can do anything, dude. I looked up pictures of Kaleva, and it really can be as simple, as ornately decorated as you so choose. And some of them are beautiful. K O L I V A. Some of them, like, they're making mosaics. They're using, like, metallic edible pearls. They're beautiful.

Poppy 30:40

There's a lot of crosses.

River 30:42

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a Greek Orthodox dish. Yeah. Let's see, where were we in the recipe? There we are. You're going to mix the ingredients together, cover them with a wet towel so that it doesn't dry out. If you're doing it overnight, you want to cover it with a dry towel. If you're doing a day of. On the day you're going to serve it, you add your raisins and your cinnamon to the mix, stir it up nice and good, transfer the mix to a decorative plate or a bowl. Then you're going to want to take a piece of wax paper on top of the mixture and press the mixture firmly into the bowl to form a small mound, which signifies the grave. You're making a little grave out of barley and wheat kernels and almonds, isn't that yummy? After you've got your grave, your little mound, you're gonna sprinkle the mound with more cinnamon until the sacred smell rises up to greet the nostrils. That's in the recipe. I did not add that. They put that in

Skye 31:37

integral step

River 31:39

Yeah, you're gonna wanna smell that sacred

Skye 31:42

when the ancestors tell you to

River 31:44

And then you're gonna drizzle honey generously over the grain seed mixture. You're going to decorate the surface of your Kaleva with the reserved almonds and raisins and whatever you want, if you wish. At that point, it's really the world is your oyster, you can do anything. And then you're going to want to keep it refrigerated at all times until it's served. And at that point, you do just kind of get like a big old like scoop and just dish it out. I

Skye 32:09

So is this a side dish? Is this a dessert? Is this a main course? Like when and where are Is this just like, you have sort of like a buffet sort of situation, and that's just one of the options, like,

River 32:24

I, I would imagine since it is a memorial dish, it's like one of the things or it can be used as its own thing. I think it really just depends. Yeah. I think it can be either or, but I'm also not Greek Orthodox. I'm Roman Catholic. I don't know.

Poppy 32:41

I just Googled it. If you wanna know.

River 32:43

I would love to know.

Poppy 32:44

So khaliva is a main dish that is shared during Greek Orthodox memorial services and funerals. So it's a main.

River 32:52

Mm. Vegetarian friendly, not vegan friendly, but it can be if you take out the honey. Yum.

Skye 33:00

Do maple syrup instead, maybe?

River 33:03

Yeah, that'd be yummy. And I just thought it was neat how that tied into Anthestaria in such a way and also Catholicism in such a way. I was like, wow, this really is the perfect path for me.

Poppy 33:14

I have a quick just a thought sidebar. So have you guys heard of ergot? Do you know what ergot is? So it's a it's a fungus that grows on grains like wheat.

River 33:26

Yes.

Poppy 33:27

And when you consume it, you can, you get sick, but it also has like psychedelic like properties. And I think there's a theory that like, maybe that contributed to the Salem witch trials and whatnot. I'm thinking like, I wonder if people ever ate Kaliva, like in ancient Greece, they're eating it. They get ergot poisoning. They're hallucinating at this festival.

River 33:50

Oh, no doubt. Yeah. I'm sure that's happened at least

Poppy 33:54

They're

River 33:55

Yeah. Yeah.

Poppy 33:56

this shit makes you see dead

River 33:58

Yeah. this shit is delicious. And also like there's a goat man over there. That's pretty crazy. Give me some more.

Skye 34:08

Yeah, that's awesome.

River 34:10

That's pretty great. Yeah, and it also I kind of want to make it! It seems like kind of a pain. I don't know where to get wheat kernels and barley. I can't even eat wheat I can't eat gluten.

Skye 34:22

Mm hmm.

River 34:24

Yeah, I can figure

Poppy 34:25

sure there's some alternative, though.

River 34:28

Yeah.

Poppy 34:28

very much like a, like a vacation Bible school thing to make, like with kids. Like, it sounds like a fun activity to do with

Skye 34:35

But, I bet you could do just like a little mixture of like, almonds and raisins and honey and cinnamon, and like, have it be, the symbolicness

River 34:45

Yeah, Yeah, I just make it with only rice You Yeah, I'm only putting rice and raisins and honey in a bowl.

Poppy 34:55

Oats, maybe. Do you do oats?

River 34:58

like oats. I make a tasty little granola trail mix of kaleva. Yeah. I think so. I

Poppy 35:07

Yeah, I think so. I'm pretty sure oats are,

River 35:10

If

Poppy 35:10

know why they would have gluten.

River 35:11

stomach.

Skye 35:12

a grain, so that's why I'm wondering.

Poppy 35:15

Bro, it, this is listening to me. I literally typed do And then space and then the letter O and the first thing that pops up is do oats have gluten? They're listening to us.

River 35:27

will say that's all, like, I've definitely Googled that before. I think that's just a deeply common

Skye 35:33

Yeah.

River 35:33

unfortunately.

Poppy 35:35

They're gluten free unless, um, they're processed in a factory that also processes gluten.

River 35:40

that's what I figured. Well, and then, after all that fun and merriment and the dead coming up to the earth and then going back down and making our tasty little snacks, I get to tell you about the last thing that I'm really excited to. And I need to give a trigger warning for this. So, In this section, I'm going to talk about omophagy, which is the dismemberment and consumption of raw flesh. Omophagy is the consumption, but it's followed by sporagmos, which is the dismemberment of a life sacrifice. So if you don't want to hear that, That's understandable, and you can skip ahead. We'll put a little timestamp in there for you, but I just wanted to give a warning for that because it might not sit well with everybody. So, if you stick around, great. If you want to skip ahead, we'll see you when we get to Sky's section. I love you, bye. Okay, trigger warning out of the way, I want to ask you guys Have you ever heard of omephagy?

Poppy 36:50

Hmm.

Skye 36:51

in your body?

Poppy 36:52

No.

River 36:53

Mmm, could

Poppy 36:55

know feiji means to eat.

River 36:58

Yes.

Poppy 36:59

I don't know what oma stands

River 37:01

might, It might, be helpful as a context clue if I tell you that omephagy is, what immediately follows Spiragmus, which is the dismemberment of a life sacrifice. Yeah. Can you see why I wanted to put that trigger warning now?

Poppy 37:24

Is it blood?

River 37:25

Dismemberment, flesh, blood, everything.

Poppy 37:29

Oh.

River 37:31

You're eating the life sacrifice so that it doesn't lose its innocence and its divine

Poppy 37:36

Yeah. There

River 37:37

you know?

Poppy 37:38

maggots yet, hopefully,

River 37:39

No. Yeah, I would hope not. They have bigger problems than getting dismembered, honestly, at that point. But we're going to talk about, oh, I'm going to tell you guys about Omophagy.

Skye 37:52

So a food of Dionysus is people?

River 37:56

The consumption of a life sacrifice. Yes.

Poppy 37:59

But it doesn't have to be a person, right? It could

River 38:01

Doesn't have to be. Yeah. Symbolically, it's usually more animals that are, you know, um, enlivened with his spirit and his essence. But with the inherent secrecy of being a mystery cult, It's not 100 percent confirmed that this ritual was literally enacted that way, but there are many myths and stories where it is either depicted or heavily implied. So it's again, sort of use your imagination if you want to believe it or not. And while I was researching Omafeji, I found somebody's thesis statement that they submitted to the University of Manitoba in 1995. And it's titled, The Rituals of Spiragmus and Omiphagy in Tragedy, Romance, and Horror Genres by David S. Steinmiest. And I just thought that was crazy that somebody in 1995 was like, I gotta write about this. This shit's crazy. Yeah, and I do, I have a little, a paragraph from the thesis paper that I wanted to read.

Poppy 39:17

He's like,

River 39:18

thought

Poppy 39:19

thesis, and he's like, okay, uh, thirty

River 39:21

years from now, however, 30, Oh God, 30 years from now, I wasn't even alive.

Poppy 39:29

No.

River 39:30

I wasn't born yet. And I was like, I got to put that in my podcast. That's crazy. Thank you, David S. Steinmeist.

Skye 39:37

you're listening, David, shout out.

River 39:39

I don't know how you would be, but if you're listening, I'm gonna read that 100 page thesis paper one day. I found it days ago, and I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing yet. But in his thesis paper, The Rituals of Spiragmus and Omiphagy in Tragedy, Romance, and Horror Genres, he says, Dionysus has been popularly regarded as the benign, light hearted god of the vine. Nevertheless, as these myths and rituals show, Dionysus presides over all vital flowing things. Wine, vegetation, semen, honey, milk, and blood. In this he is prim I mean, is that vital?

Poppy 40:28

I mean, it, it's important.

River 40:31

It is important, I guess. wouldn't say it's life sustaining.

Skye 40:36

Don't

Poppy 40:36

I will.

Skye 40:36

it's all

River 40:37

That's more of like an expitory. It's mostly just what you need to create life. So like semen, milk, honey, blood,

Poppy 40:45

Yeah.

River 40:46

Thanks for making a piss joke in the middle of my beautiful paragraph.

Poppy 40:49

I feel like it's very Dionysian. Like a

River 40:51

It is yeah. Could be. We haven't talked about it. I don't know, let's see, vital flowing things, wine, vegetation, semen, honey, milk, blood, piss, et cetera. In this, he is primarily a resurrection God, much like Addis, Osiris, Persephone, Ceres, and countless others, and represents the basic cyclic nature. of this world. The growth of living flowing things depends wholly on the death and breaking down of other living things to stay alive. We eat the lamb who crops the grass which is fed by the feces and carcasses of both lamb and man. Life within the Dionysian paradigm as encoded in myth, ritual, and tragedy consists of repeated and alternating cycles of creation and destruction. The destruction of Dionysus flesh and the spilling of his blood fertilize the flesh. the earth, allowing the birth or the rebirth of mankind and the continuance of the spirit of that God, the immortal part of humanity, through a series of corporeal bodies. The rituals of Spiragmos and Omaphagy do not merely incorporate the imagery of myth as an artistic artifact cut off from social function. They in fact attempt to recreate the spirit and passion of this Dionysian reality through in the celebrants. Chew on that.

Poppy 42:13

All right. Snaps

River 42:14

on that. Snaps for David S. Stymies for that one. He popped off. He had more to say. That was like two pages of his entire thesis paper. That was so small, but I thank him every day for that. And You can see the similarities in Spiragmus, not Spiragmus, more so Omiphagy in the Eucharist, where you are taking in the body and the blood to become closer to the divine. You have your spirit rebirthed. The Eucharist is not literally rending Jesus limb from limb and eating him. That'd be kind of insane to do that every single Sunday. But, you know, through transubstantiation by the action of the Holy Spirit and the Eucharistic Prayer, you get to consume the Holy Host and you get to become all that much closer to the Divine.

Skye 43:08

Love it.

River 43:09

Amen.

Skye 43:10

Amen.

River 43:12

Yeah. So that's all I got. That's what I was so excited to talk to you guys about.

Poppy 43:16

I loved it.

Skye 43:18

We love the rendering of flesh.

River 43:21

I, uh, if I could, you can cut this out in the edit, but I wouldn't do it. Would it weigh on me emotionally? Yes. But if it was a, if I was in a frenzied, ecstatic state, oh, you better believe I'd be having the time of my life.

Poppy 43:36

Baby, you need to read The Secret History by Donna Tartt, please.

River 43:40

that. I will. One day I just,

Poppy 43:44

but she's gonna give it to you when she's done.

River 43:46

I think it would be so satisfying and so visceral to just like, you know,

Skye 43:52

to eat a steak.

River 43:54

I don't want to. That's yucky. That's

Poppy 43:59

What if you killed a cow?

River 44:02

Now we're talking. That's different.

Poppy 44:05

Farm to table.

River 44:07

And also for the listeners at home, quick note, I just remembered I pronounced it wrong. It's actually omophagy, not omophagy. I learned how to pronounce it for real after I had read it several times and figured out how to pronounce it wrong in my own head. Apologies. Yeah, so after all that body and blood, if you're still hungry for more, we got plenty more hot yummy dishes to give to you. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. And now Sky is gonna give us a tasty little Food Network

Skye 44:43

Yes. Hello. Um, so for the Morrigan, I kind of split mine up into the three sisters, Maka, Anu, and Bive. Uh, some of the foods and animals and such that I have. There's a little bit of crossover with associations. Some of the food can be associated with one or both sister, you know what I mean? But I just kind of picked the ones that I felt were most appropriate for each one. So if you read somewhere that one of the food I say is associated with one of the other sisters, that's just a common occurrence that there's just like cross reference. in general with them. So I'm going to start first with Maka. Her name means field or plane. And because of that, she has associations with the horse, she's somewhat of a horse girl, if you will.

Poppy 45:34

Mm.

Skye 45:34

So because of her associations with fields and horses, her foods are grains in general, but I'm going to highlight oats today, as well as dark ale because dark ale was given to horses to give their coats a shine. They can have a little treat.

River 45:54

Yummy, just a little

Skye 45:55

They can have a little sip. It's okay.

Poppy 45:58

Will dark ale make my coat shine?

River 46:01

There's only one way to find out.

Skye 46:03

I was just about to say,

River 46:04

Are you a horse? Is that what you're trying to tell us?

Poppy 46:07

Nay. I'm not a horse.

River 46:09

I don't know, that sounds like something a horse would say.

Skye 46:14

um, so for oats, I'm going to read a little section to you guys. I have this book called, Herbs, Medicine, and Mysticism by Sybil Leak. Um, this book is,

River 46:28

And this is the same book that your mom has, right Poppy? Or is that, did I make that up?

Poppy 46:35

I think so. Can, can I see the cover?

Skye 46:36

have the paper cover, it's just a hardback, but the, the cover cover, like the little paper cover thing that it had, oh no, I took the little sticky note out, Alright, so reading from this herbs book in the section Oats. And first of all, if this isn't a drag queen name, if I've ever heard one, it's botanical name is Avena sativa. are oat

River 47:03

I know her.

Skye 47:07

groats, oatmeal, groats, panicle oats, white oats, and common oat. Its habitat is in temperate regions, and its description is has a smooth stem growing up to 4 feet high with rough leaves. Loose striate sheaves, two flowered, both perfect, root fibrous, annual. Its action is anti spasmodic, nerve tonic, stimulant, nutritive, and corrective. I also need to insert here and just say the obvious that obviously we're not doctors. This is a very old book, and by very old I mean it's from like the 70s. But obviously don't, well, oats are probably fine, but like, any, anyway.

River 47:55

If you need an anti spasmatic, don't just

Skye 47:57

Yeah, exactly. I'm just reading what this book says. Anyway, continuing medicinal uses an important restorative in nervous Prostration and exhaustion after all febrile diseases and that means feverish the way febrile means feverish It is also a tonic in spermatorrhea and insomnia. Question for both of you is, what do you think that spermatorrhea means?

Poppy 48:22

I think Ria means,

Skye 48:26

Yeah, all the words are there for you.

River 48:29

Is it an ejaculate? Aid? Okay.

Poppy 48:34

Oh yeah, I feel like I've, I've read that before. It like, makes your,

River 48:38

Makes you come

Skye 48:38

So spermatorrhea is a condition of excessive involuntary seminal discharge.

Poppy 48:48

Oh. Involuntary?

River 48:51

And voluntary.

Poppy 48:55

So it's just like, leaking?

Skye 48:56

So oats can help if you got leaky dick syndrome. Evidently, according to this book. I don't know. Known to speedily relieve bladder and ureter spasms, boiled into a thick paste, it makes a good emollient poultice. As gruel, it is a mild nutritious ailment. That's it.

Poppy 49:14

Have you guys ever done an oatmeal mask? Or like, an oatmeal

Skye 49:17

Yeah.

River 49:17

Yes.

Poppy 49:19

It's very

Skye 49:20

Yeah. And that takes me, that's a great segue into the rest of oats. Uh, yeah, it's typically used for soothing or calming. You know, taking a little oat bath. Even just eating a little oatmeal just feels nice, soothes the soul. Uh, it can be eaten or used topically. Uh, raw oats, oatmeal, or an oat bath can all be acceptable offerings for the Morrigan, or specifically the face of Maka. That can be all good. I thought I had, oh yeah, according to that book, it's ruled by Mercury, if that's important to you.

Poppy 49:56

Communication.

Skye 49:57

Now getting into the dark ale, I'm going to highlight specifically Guinness because that's the most well known and popular dark Irish beer specifically. Uh, it is made from barley, which like oat is a grain. So pretty much anything grain based like bread could also be used as an offering as well. I did want to read a fun little thing that I just came across about Guinness, specifically the creator or the founder of Guinness. So this is from the Guinness Wikipedia page. Arthur Guinness started brewing ales in 1759 at the St. James's Gate Brewery in On the 31st of December, 1759, he signed a 9, 000 year lease at 45 pounds per annum for the unused brewery. Now I did a little math.

River 50:52

Hold on.

Poppy 50:54

You said 35 pounds per year. That's

Skye 50:59

did math. Yes, and I did the math. His lease ends. In the year 10,759, he spent 405,000 pounds in total for his lease, which in today's money would be 66,331,994 pounds and 90 pets. Now that's a lot of money, but for a 9,000

River 51:30

000 year lease? Yeah, that's a pretty good deal.

Skye 51:34

who's we're gonna experience the heat death of the universe before this man's lease ends.

River 51:38

his lease is still gonna be there.

Poppy 51:40

Why not just buy it?

Skye 51:42

I don't know.

Poppy 51:43

Like, why are you leasing it? Who are you leasing it from?

Skye 51:46

of the lease are going to be long dead.

River 51:48

shit.

Poppy 51:49

Yeah.

Skye 51:50

Anyway, that's just like a well known fact, I guess, about the Guinness distillery.

Poppy 51:55

And they still have it. Like, that's still the one that they, okay.

Skye 51:59

is it called? St. James's Gate? Yeah. Yeah. St. James.

Poppy 52:03

Oh! I've heard of that. Yeah. It's all coming back. Is that why, like, are they in the Guinness Book of World Records for the longest lease?

River 52:12

I hope so. That'd be

Skye 52:13

don't know. And also is the Guinness world records. I didn't look that up, but I'm like, are they?

Poppy 52:17

I think it is. I'm pretty sure they

River 52:20

Couldn't tell you. That's why I can never be like a grind set, rise and grind type man, because I'm not on some shit like that.

Skye 52:28

Yeah. he

River 52:29

could never do that.

Skye 52:30

to him. Uh,

River 52:33

I have to respect the hustle. I don't have a 9, 000 year lease. I have a one year lease at

Skye 52:38

Yeah, yeah. So ale or beer is a mixture of both earth and water because you've got the water and the oats and barley and whatnot, which are the two elements that are closely related to the Morgans. So she's an earth goddess and she is also connected to rivers in the sea. So that's another tie in as to why beer in general could be a good offering for her. You could also logically make this argument for tea and coffee also because it's of the earth and water. Like anytime you're putting an earthy thing in water and making a beverage, like that could also be used as offering. And according to PetMD, it is in fact okay to give horses beer in moderation. Apparently they have an enzyme in their liver that like makes them, it's, they would have to drink a lot, a lot, a lot of beer to actually get drunk. But it still is like, you should still just give it to them just in moderation. I think they said one or two beers per week and certainly not more than one beer per day.

River 53:37

love that. I'm cracking open a cold one with my racehorse every week.

Skye 53:42

beer is ruled by Mars.

River 53:43

Love That

Poppy 53:45

see that. Very masculine.

Skye 53:48

All right. And. Second sister, we're going to roll into Anu. I am assigning her the aspect to the animal cow because she is the sister who's closely related to fertility. So for the cow, obviously you can eat steak or beef. You can eat the flesh of the cow itself. You know, it's bloody, it's full of protein. Um, it can be kind of expensive to get a nice steak. So I feel like an offering either you cooking and eating steak or giving steak as an offering can be like, you know, how you want to give something of high value sometimes as an offering, depending on what you're doing. So that can be like a nice real treat to do as an offering. Um, and it was also a big deal to kill your cow back in the day. Like, not only is it expensive now to eat meat, but it's also, if you had a cow and you killed it, like that was kind of a big deal to actually kill and eat the cow. also if you do eat steak or beef at all, make sure to honor and thank the animal for its sacrifice. That can also just that one little act can be like an offering to Anu or the Morrigan, just giving reverence to the animal that you're ingesting. and we also have milk. Milk is back into play with the cow. So it is real fatty. It keeps people full and alive. Again, give thanks to the cow for the milk. Like if you consume cow's milk, say, thank you, mother, for giving me, for giving me your juices. It is the life force from mother to baby, acknowledge that, uh, and because of that it represents gentle and nurturing love, femininity, if you please. And much like oat, it can also be soothing. You could do a combo oat and milk bath if you wanted to.

Poppy 55:41

Ooh, I love a milk bath.

Skye 55:43

Little oats, little milk, be real good on your skin. and that's pretty much all I got for cow and milk and beef and such, unless you all had something to comment on beef or milk. No?

River 55:56

I don't eat either of those things, so I got nothing to

Skye 55:59

Okay, well then the last sister I have is Bive, and she's got the lengthiest section, which is why I saved it for the last part, because she's the most closely related to the death aspect of the Morrigan, um, and she is a goddess of the Otherworld. I want to touch briefly on Avalon. Which you've probably heard of before. It's in the Legend of King Arthur. It's where Excalibur was forged. That's where Merlin was, et cetera, et cetera. Avalon means Isle of Apples because vegetation grew there with ease and it is considered a part of or an entrance into the other world. So because of this, she is tied into apples. That is going to be her food. and honestly, apples could be its own topic on its own. Like it, it could be an episode just devoted just to apples. Apples are so intricate. They are long associated with magic in general. They've been regarded for their mystical properties since ancient times. So many classic stories, myths, and folklore feature magic apples. Like, The Garden of Eden, Snow White, The Apple of Discord that led to the Trojan War in Greek Mythology, The Norse Mythology of Iduna and the Magic Apples of Immortality, so on and so forth. There's so

River 57:24

cover of twilight.

Skye 57:26

I hadn't considered the cover of Twilight, but yes, also that.

River 57:30

considering it.

Poppy 57:30

Do you guys have a favorite apple? Like, is there a favorite type of

River 57:34

So I have IBS so I can't eat apples, but I love, love, love, love a honey crisp or a Fuji apple. They're so good.

Poppy 57:46

Does that, is that better? No.

River 57:49

the

Poppy 57:50

No. Boo.

River 57:52

I know. Wish I could. They're delicious. I loved them.

Poppy 57:54

a Cosmic Crisp. Have you tried those? Oof.

Skye 57:58

good.

River 57:58

life.

Skye 57:59

So I'm going to briefly go over some apple symbolism because apples symbolize a lot of things. Uh, love and beauty. Like Aphrodite and Venus, the apple tree is sort of their thing. Uh, also represents knowledge, wisdom, and education, much like in the Garden of Eden. Much like when you give teachers apples. It also represents fertility and life, death and immortality, sexuality. strength and growth, good health, and generally in the, just, it can represent the cosmos because it's in the shape of a sphere. So, I mean, you could get into a rabbit hole going down any one of those things that it, that it represents. Um, a lot of the tales that I mentioned before, and just tales in general that have apples, that have powers of some sort, affect those who eat it. So typically when you hear some sort of tale, the apple is affecting the person who's eating it, much like the golden apples are common representations of immortality. Usually when there's a golden apple, those who, the person who eats it, becomes immortal. But also, like in Snow White, they can have the opposite effect and cause negative outcomes. And that likely comes from its association with the underworld. And moving on to apples and the underworld, in Celtic culture, it's associated with rebirth, and they buried apples in graves for food for the dead. In fact, Samhain is sometimes referred to as Feast of the Apples because Apples all fall that time of year around Samhain, so they need to, they need to use those apples for something, you know what I mean? Uh, in Greek, the golden apples, again, common for immortality. They're mentioned a few times in a few different tales I saw. in Norse mythology, again with immortality, but also apples are called the food of the gods in Norse mythology is what I saw. The Latin word for apple is malum, which is the same word as evil. Chew on that. Yeah.

Poppy 1:00:06

Evil

Skye 1:00:06

Evil and apple. When you cut When you cut an apple in half, not vertically, but horizontally, the seeds make a pentagram. So there's typically five seeds and it kind of looks like a little star. So that kind of ties it in with this association with the elements in general. Like you cut it and there's like a little pentagram. uses for apple. There are many, many, many delicious apple recipes, like pies. You can get your little kitchen witch on, bake you a little pie, put a little cinnamon, add your little tension in there. You can dry apples. You can make little apple crisps. Of course, you can always eat it raw as well. But you can also use apple cider if you are either too young to purchase wine, or you don't drink, or you just prefer apple cider, you're just getting in the mood for the holiday season, you can substitute apple cider for wine as an offering as well. Personally, I would probably do a whole apple if I was going to be giving a raw apple as an offering. I just feel like when you cut it open, it kind of gets brown and weird. So I would either do a whole apple.

River 1:01:19

got like a three hour window before it starts to

Skye 1:01:22

Yeah, Yeah, I would do a whole apple or I would do the traditional burying the apple depending on what the circumstance was. Or I would opt for the apple cider. So to end my little segment, I am going to read you guys one little folklore tale about apples. Well, involving an apple, I should say. In Irish mythology, I read a few different versions of this story, and this one that I'm going to read to you was sort of my favorite rendition, and I found this on emeraldisle. ie. Um, it is lightly edited by me just for ease of use. So just a disclaimer about that. And this is called, well, they have titled this The Taking of Conla. I've also seen Conla and the Fairy Maiden and other variations like that, but here, here is how the tale goes. Conla of the Fiery Hair was one of the sons of Kahn of the Hundred Battles. He was a swift and agile warrior with a voice that could make the mountains tremble. He and his father climbed the heights of a hill when he saw coming towards them a slender maiden of great beauty, clad in strange clothes. This Where do you come from, lady? asked Conla curiously, for it was bitter cold and windy upon the hill that night, and she wasn't warmly dressed, yet still the blush of spring was on her cheeks. I come from the plane of light, the white fields, she said, the land of the ever living. In my land there is neither death nor sin, and every day is a holiday. There is no war and no strife to spoil our pleasure, and it is beneath the hills that lie the path to our home. Who's that you're talking to, son? asked Con the king. And the maiden replied, Conla speaks to a young and gracious maiden, O King, One who knows neither death nor old age. I love Conla, and in my heart I desire his company. So I call him away to the plain of joy, Moymel, Where Manannan Maclear is king forever, And none would raise their voice against him. Conla, of the fiery hair, rich as the dawn. A she crown waits for your head, and fitting it will be. Come, and your youth and beauty will never fail until the last awful day of judgment. The king was then struck with terror at the sound, for he could see nobody, yet he could hear a voice. So he swiftly summoned his druid, Corrin, to the scene. O Corrin of the many spells, he said, and of the cunning craft, help me here, for this is beyond my ken. A maiden with no form or shape I can see has come to this place, as she wishes to take my son with her witchery. Help us, or he'll be lost. So Qhorin the Druin stood up against the rising moon, and stretching out his hands, he began to chant mighty spells, raising mist from the ground, shooting through with the sound of hooting owls and hissing snakes. Toward he pointed, and the apparitions gathered there, until she was seen and heard no more. But behind her she left a bright green apple, which Conla swiftly picked up and hid in his tunic. For a whole month after that, Conla would eat nothing except bites of his hidden apple, and when he was finished with it, it grew back again whole, and a great desire grew in him all the while to see the maiden again and hold her hand. When the end of the month came, Conla stood by his father's side on a plane, And what did he see but the very same maiden walking towards him? She whispered, The land of the ever living calls. Come with me to those who have learned of you and wish to meet you. Come to your new family. Despite her whispering, King Khan's sharp ears caught the words and he called again for his druid to strike her. The maiden said, Oh mighty King Khan, Victor of a hundred battles, The druid's power is hated among us and has no honor among my folk. When the law comes, it will do away with his magic spells that come from the lips of a false black demon. Corrin came up quickly then, and heard the words of the She, and also he answered. All she says is true, my king, but I tell you that her folk fear no death, for they died long ago. Beneath the hill they dwell, for it is there they were buried, and danced their endless dances, never changing in joyless joy. Judgment will fall hardest upon those who defy the natural order of the world. But the king didn't hear him, looking instead at his son, who had said nothing all this while. Do you hear what is said by her, my son? he asked. It is no easy question, said Conla, for I love my own family more than anything else, but I am seized with a great longing for the maiden. When the lady heard this, she said quickly, The tides of the ocean are not so strong as the pull of your desire. Come with me in my shimmering crystal ship. We can reach the sun before it sets, and we will feast in my realm and go further yet to the land of wives and maidens, and there we will make our home. Then the king in his court saw Kala run away from them faster than any could reach. He leaped into her shift, which came from the miss, and sailed away over the bright sea toward the setting sun, and they were never seen or heard from again, leaving behind only the tinkling sound of a she's laughter, and that's it.

Poppy 1:07:14

Good for them.

River 1:07:15

that sounds dope as hell. Good

Skye 1:07:16

Think she tricked him into coming. the,

River 1:07:19

Yeah! When you, when a ghost, you meet a ghost on a hill and immediately she's like, I love you.

Skye 1:07:29

They hadn't even had a conversation yet.

River 1:07:31

flag. No. She was like, I'm so in love with you, dude.

Skye 1:07:34

can't stop thinking about her.

River 1:07:37

This magic apple that keeps regenerating. I gotta know what that's about.

Skye 1:07:42

He can't eat

River 1:07:43

gotta find her again.

Skye 1:07:45

but yeah, lost his control because of that magic apple.

River 1:07:49

Yeah. He acted unwise because of that apple.

Poppy 1:07:53

Ooh, control. I bet you could like carve an apple as a poppet

Skye 1:07:57

You can do so many things with an apple, dude. I can't even get. Like I said, the apple is so, you could cut an apple in half, put a note inside, tie it up, like you could put nails in, like you could puncture an apple so easily, you can carve an apple so easily, you can get different

River 1:08:13

Mhm.

Skye 1:08:14

that probably represent different things, a green apple, a red apple,

Poppy 1:08:17

Colors?

River 1:08:19

you could use it for divination.

Poppy 1:08:22

Oh

River 1:08:22

Yeah.

Skye 1:08:23

how many seeds it has or something,

River 1:08:26

Yeah.

Skye 1:08:26

the apple is just so cool. When I started, I was like,

River 1:08:29

So juicy.

Skye 1:08:31

I was like, Oh, sure, an apple. And then I was like, what have I got myself into? But it's the most interesting food that I had. So I couldn't cut it out. And I also have to respect all three sisters, but yeah, that's a oats, beer, milk, and apples.

River 1:08:48

Wow.

Poppy 1:08:48

Beautiful.

Skye 1:08:49

thoughts, questions, comments, concerns?

River 1:08:51

No concerns.

Skye 1:08:53

Okay. Well, in

River 1:08:54

No comments. No questions.

Skye 1:08:56

that case, I'll let Poppy round us out.

River 1:08:58

Poppy, I'm still hungry for more. I got more

Poppy 1:09:01

Oh! Good!

Skye 1:09:03

dessert today.

Poppy 1:09:05

Alright, accepting the baton over here so I have two that I'm going to cover. Um, the first one is quite obvious, uh, I'm gonna cover the pomegranate, because it's probably the food that is most present in pomegranates. the myths that surround Hades and Persephone. Um, honestly, it's almost the only food that's present in their myths. so pomegranates, we'll start out there. In Latin, the word is pomum granatum, and that means apples of many grains or seeds. So right off the bat, you can kind of see. the relationship between pomegranates and apples. I mean, apples are so common that a lot of cultures will call other fruits apples because they are kind of reminiscent of the apple, but they have like a little variation. So pomegranates are the same way. They're the apple with many seeds. Um, it is a deciduous shrub. Or tree like a very small tree and they can live up to 200 years. I know, which is nuts. Can you imagine 200 year old pomegranate tree?

River 1:10:13

Oh, that'd be so tasty.

Poppy 1:10:15

Yeah. I feel like the, the older it is like the better. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the flowers of the tree. So I feel like we don't usually for most fruits, we don't really consider the flowers. Like we really think about it as a fruit tree, but it is still a flowering tree and pomegranate flowers are. Kind of trumpet shaped, they're this beautiful orange y red, if you've never seen a pomegranate flower, look it up, they're very pretty, and pomegranates are technically a berry,

River 1:10:44

That makes

Poppy 1:10:45

yeah.

River 1:10:45

yeah.

Poppy 1:10:47

botany, right, like you know a lot about plants?

River 1:10:49

in a novice way, yes.

Poppy 1:10:52

you're a plant parent. Uh, I mean, there are so many fruits that are berries and then Some berries are not berries, botanically. technically a berry is a fruit that has grown from one ovary of a flower. So, bananas, oranges, cucumbers, um, grapes, blueberries, but then like blackberries and raspberries are not, um,

River 1:11:16

are also not berries, yes.

Poppy 1:11:18

strawberries are not

River 1:11:19

Yeah.

Poppy 1:11:19

no. Yeah, so really the only thing that we call berries that are berries are blueberries.

River 1:11:24

are so stupid.

Poppy 1:11:26

So silly. We love to categorize things. It really doesn't mean anything, but yeah, but anyway, so pomegranates originated in Iran and Northern India. So they spread through the Mediterranean, they came into Northern Africa, they spread all the way East to China. And then in the 16th century, the Spanish brought them to Central and South America, when they went and conquered and pillaged and just did all their nasty stuff. so in 3000 BC, so about 5000 years ago, pomegranates were domesticated. So as you guys probably know, like most fruits and vegetables and whatnot that we eat today are not the same as the wild version of that plant. For the most part, the wild version has less like meat on it, you know, and it's hard and just not as tasty. So same is true with pomegranates. No, I mean, every, even the organic shit that you eat today, every single vegetable is technically a GMO because it was bred into existence by man, right? Like, it's all mustard at the end of the day. It's all, all goes back to the mustard

Skye 1:12:32

Can I say

Poppy 1:12:33

If you know, you know.

Skye 1:12:34

in Scotland, like their fruits were significantly smaller than in the United States, like their apples, cause like our apples are about fist size, I would say in general, their apples were probably like two inches tall, like they were very, very petite, small apples. And it was just labeled as a normal apple here in the States. It would be like petite, whatever organic USDA, whatever

Poppy 1:12:56

Yeah.

Skye 1:12:57

that was just, that was their apple. Regular.

Poppy 1:12:59

Strawberries? I feel like a normal strawberry is like thumb sized, right?

Skye 1:13:03

Yeah.

River 1:13:04

Yeah.

Poppy 1:13:05

Strawberries today are like fucking, they're just

River 1:13:08

They're like as big as the palm of

Poppy 1:13:10

now. Horrible. And they don't taste as good. They have less like strawberry essence within them, you know. Anyway, so same thing happened with pomegranates, although, I mean, the pomegranates of today are super juicy and tasty and tart and sweet and wonderful. but in 3000 BC, 5, 000 years ago, they were domesticated. So they originally were like, Tiny little spheres that were mostly seed and they didn't taste very good. And they still exist in their wild form today only on one island in the Arabian Sea. Not super edible how they are. So they were domesticated to have bigger seeds, more juice. Um, et cetera. So they're much bigger, generally speaking. even still though today, they're pretty difficult to eat. Like they're, you can't just like an apple, you can't just bite into a pomegranate. That would be a bad time. You have to go through the skins are tough. You have to cut it a certain way and then kind of pry it open to get to all the seeds. Um, yeah, you have to like score it and then kind of like, so ancient. Medicinal uses, pretty much it was used for everything, stomach issues, worms, leprosy, heart health, but notably it was used to promote fertility, promote health of the womb. And prevent abortion, so like prevent miscarriages. And the Chinese used the juice of the pomegranate, they called it soul concentrate. So it was analogous to human blood, because it kind of, you know, it kind of looks like blood, and it was thought to both promote longevity, and possibly even promote immortality. Ooh. uh, featured in art. So early Jewish art heavily featured there. There are carvings in architecture. I think there's a commandment for priestly garments to have pomegranates like on the hymn. the Torah scrolls, classically have pomegranates carved into them, and pomegranates are said to have 613 seeds, which is the same number of commandments in the Torah. So there's that relationship there, In Judaism, they're also a metaphor for the richness of the promised land. So when, you know, Moses is leading everyone to the promised land, there's that pomegranate symbolism. That's a Sky's favorite movie.

Skye 1:15:33

The Prince of Egypt.

Poppy 1:15:34

The Prince of Egypt. Yeah. It's a good one. so pomegranates are also featured in the Quran and the Bible, um, for the Bible, they're only Old Testament, which makes sense because of the heavy links to Judaism. but in Christian art, they're famously featured alongside the Virgin Mary and, baby Jesus Christ. So that brings in those. themes of fertility because of the Virgin Mary, um, and also resurrection because whenever you have Christ around you have those themes of resurrection and notably mortality. I have always kind of pictured ovaries as looking like a pomegranate.

Skye 1:16:12

With the top part, with like the little

Poppy 1:16:14

don't,

Skye 1:16:14

that like kind of splays out.

Poppy 1:16:16

with the thing and then like all the seeds inside and you know, like that one egg will kind of like pop out at a time. Yeah. So they have that look, that ovarian look Um, they look very fertile. They're full, chock full of seeds. So,

River 1:16:34

to burst.

Poppy 1:16:36

and they are, and I'll get into that. But across cultures, they're a symbol of fertility. Like, that's basically their, their numero uno quality. Um, Chinese symbol of fertility, vitality, immortality, um, in Turkey, women smash them on the ground so that they burst and then they count the seeds and the number of seeds that are expelled, that's the number of children they're going to have

River 1:17:02

have so many seeds in there,

Poppy 1:17:04

But if you, I guess if you like take a pomegranate though, and you throw it on the ground, I don't know how many seeds are going to come out from that.

Skye 1:17:09

you know?

River 1:17:10

not all of them.

Poppy 1:17:12

Um, ancient Greece. So pomegranates are said to spring from the blood of Dionysus are our favorite. obviously there's a tie into Hades and Persephone. there's ties to Hera, who's the goddess of marriage and childbirth and Aphrodite love and beauty. So again, you have that fertility, the rebirth, the mortality. And it's. As far as symbolism goes, there's also, this wasn't written anywhere, but I feel in addition to abundance, there's also a really heavy tie between pomegranates and faithfulness or faith in general. so you have the Torah commandments, where you, you know, you're, you're following with faith. You have the promised land where you're marching through suffering to eventually get to the land of milk and honey. Uh, so you have faith there. Um, Christian art, even in the Hades myth, pomegranates are, they're, they're, they're What tie Persephone to the underworld, so they're symbolic of keeping that promise every year she, she goes and she comes back and that's what's tying her. It also might have been the forbidden fruit, much like the apple, it's thought maybe it was the pomegranate that was the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. On the tree of knowledge. so there you have again, uh, high value. If we're thinking about the tree of knowledge, it's very valuable, but it's also a symbol of faith and trust in the divine and betrayal of the divine. So, yeah. Eve, as she disobeyed the Creator, she ate the fruit, potentially a pomegranate, that's betrayal of the trust of the divine, betrayal of her trust in the divine as well, and instead of living in eternal paradise, she is then cursed with mortality. which, you know, that ties into the whole, now we are looped into that cycle of life and death where before, before she ate the pomegranate or apple or whatever it was, it was eternal life. I also think they can be symbolic of protection because of that uh, what's it called? Like the peel you have to kind of get through. So if you're wanting to use it in protection work, it's probably good for that. And I think it can be a great symbol for hard work because it is very difficult to get in there. And in my opinion, hard work is intrinsically tied to fertility because you think about fertility as creativity or as creating things, bringing them into creation. can have inspiration. But in order to actually create and bring that seed to fruition, you have to put in that hard work in order to get that little nugget, So symbolic of that. Uh, also kind of like Skye said with the beef, it might be a really good offering because it does take so much work to get into kind of like, giving a steak as offering. So good for that. I wanted to look at some old cookbooks. Because pomegranates aren't used a ton in the culinary world today. Like we don't really cook with pomegranates very much. but I found a New York Times article from October 31st, Halloween 1979 by Lorna J. Sass. and because I loved her name, I looked her up. And I had no idea, but she's apparently like this James Beard award winning chef that has a ton of cookbooks. And she's called. America's leading authority on vegan cooking from like the 70s. And she's also called the queen of pressure cooking. Like that's her title. Um, and I just thought that was cool. Yeah. Thank you, Lorna, for your service. so Originally, pomegranates were thought to have been brought to Spain and Italy, during the conquering of the Iberian Peninsula by Muslim forces in the 8th century. So that's when they came into the, uh, Medieval eye, you know, now they're starting to be used in culinary practices. So from a medieval cookbook, Lorna J. Sass cites, it is used, like we use lemon juice today, so like they put it on fish. They add it to things to counteract salt and fat, um, yeah, it brings acidity kind of like lemon juice would, uh, and. In a lot of cases, the juice was used as the actual cooking liquid, which I think is interesting because it takes a lot of work to get pomegranate juice,

River 1:21:20

especially like a significant amount of pomegranate juice.

Poppy 1:21:25

Enough to like cook a fish in? Are you kidding me? That's a lot of pomegranates.

Skye 1:21:29

Like, do you think they opened them up and then like stepped?

Poppy 1:21:33

I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm picturing like a grinder, like a big kind of grinder and maybe like strain out the seeds. I don't know.

River 1:21:43

cheesecloth, sort of. Yeah.

Poppy 1:21:46

but good news. If you want to try it out, if you want to cook with some pomegranates, they are in season from September to January or through the end of January. So now's a great time to pick one up. I got one at the grocery store today and I'm going to have it later tonight as a little dessert. if you live somewhere that has seasons and hot summers, you can grow them in containers. They're good for containers and you can just bring them inside in the winter. if you, you know, if you live in a tropical climate, you, that's even better. You can just leave them outside all year long. To cut them, um, you have to be careful. You kind of cut the stem, you score down the sides of the fruit, and then you can peel off the leather. That's what they call it. it's a fun little interactive activity. very stimulating. You can, you know, pick out each seed, eat it, nom, It's very tactile fruit, yeah. High in antioxidants, super high in fiber. It's delicious. Uh, you can swallow the seeds if you'd like for some more fiber. You can also spit them out. I feel like it's a lot of work to spit them out though, you know? Like, I don't know. so how to eat them. You can eat the seeds by themselves, you can put them in yogurt bowls or on top of salads for garnish. you can drink the juice, you can put it in smoothies, salad dressing, mocktails, pomegranate juice is great in mocktails. Like last year I was, I think I was dry from like October to January and I always crave red wine in the winter months. So I would have a little cup of pomegranate juice in the evening instead of red wine and Perfect. Mwah. grenadine is made from pomegranates as well. Some people think it's cherry. It's not. It's pomegranate. And you can make pomegranate molasses, if you'd like. You basically take the juice of a pomegranate and just reduce it a lot till it's thick. and then once you have that, you can use it in place of honey or maple syrup. However you

Skye 1:23:36

I bet that would be so

Poppy 1:23:37

just need to refrigerate it. Oh Yeah. nice and tart. Mmm.

Skye 1:23:42

just to break it up.

Poppy 1:23:43

So yeah, pomegranates, uh, good for offerings, abundance work, they have that tie to death and rebirth, protection, or if you just want a little high fiber tasty treat, they're great. Okay, so that's that one, um, the next one I'm doing, full disclosure, I'm only covering this one because, I got a new book on Hades, and it was featured in the association section, and I was like, I have no idea what that is. Then I looked it up, and it's tied to a pretty cool goddess, so that's why I'm doing this one. Um, quince. Have you guys had quince?

River 1:24:17

Maybe, I don't know, what is that?

Poppy 1:24:21

it would make sense if you've never had quince, because it is, multiple sources I saw said it is the least popular fruit tree in North America.

River 1:24:30

Woah.

Poppy 1:24:31

yeah, an outcast. Um, and yeah, so the book Hades, Myth, Magic, and Modern Devotion by Jamie Wagner mentions quince as associated to Hades. So it's listed as an associated plant because it's associated with one of the children that he reportedly had with Persephone. Okay, getting into it. Quince. Cydonian Omblonga.

Skye 1:24:54

Another drag

Poppy 1:24:55

Uh, so yeah, Cydonia Omblonga. It belongs to a monotypic genus. Um, and what that means is that it is the only species in its genus.

Skye 1:25:06

Oh.

Poppy 1:25:06

So it's an only child. And what that means is it has really low levels of diversity. There are no different species of quince. There are no subspecies. It hasn't kind of fractured into different types due to evolutionary pressure, even though it does exist and grow pretty much all over the world at this point. this makes it really important to preserve because there's a really low level of diversity within the species. The species and less diversity, ultimately means if something is to happen, like a disease or something like that, it's more likely to be wiped out when you have more diversity, you have like fail safes, you know, plan B, C, D, et cetera. so yeah, save the quints. I don't know if it's endangered. I don't think it is. I think it's fine, but you know, the potential is there.

River 1:25:48

But it's so lonely.

Poppy 1:25:50

It's so lonely. Okay, so what, what the hell is it? It is a hard, yellow, perfumed fruit, but you gotta cook it. It has to be cooked in order to be eaten. And it looks like a big, lumpy, yellow pear. but if you cut into it, the flesh kind of looks like, the flesh of a pear, but mixed with like raw butternut squash texture. Like it's very, it looks very hard. I mean, maybe there's a reason it's the least popular fruit tree in America.

Skye 1:26:21

What does

Poppy 1:26:21

Yeah. Apparently it smells great. Um, it smells, so it is supposed to taste like a mixture between apple and pear with notes of honey and it's like very vanilla forward. I know. But yeah, so they look like big old lumpy yellow pears. Um, they're really pretty looking actually. And so I was thinking when I saw a picture of it at first, I'm like, Oh damn, I would hang that in my bathroom. Like I'd hang a picture of quinces in my bathroom. And then I saw that in ancient Greece, actually in Pompeii, After the, you know, eruption of Mount Vesuvius and whatnot, they found a ton of paintings of quinces, like, all around Pompeii. So it was, you know, they also thought that it was pretty enough to be captured. the picture that Skye just showed was kind of uggo. It's pretty

Skye 1:27:06

Yeah.

Poppy 1:27:07

but it has, it still has a certain

Skye 1:27:09

I would paint it.

River 1:27:10

things that are lumpy can be cute.

Poppy 1:27:13

Yeah, you should paint it. Mm

Skye 1:27:14

paint, so I could paint it, in theory.

Poppy 1:27:17

So quinces are native to Iran, Turkey, and Greece. they were first brought to England in 1275 when Edward I planted four outside the Tower of London. He's like, y'all better, like, look at this. These things are delicious, even though you gotta cook them.

River 1:27:33

this before. Check this out.

Poppy 1:27:36

Marmalade, which we usually think to be associated with like oranges and, you know, citrus fruits. So the word marmalade originally referred to quince preserves. So before it was, you know, other things, marmalade was preserved quince, the OG. I love marmalade too. okay. So I want to read a little passage from, this website I found called my can call kitchen. Cooking quince made easy. Cause I thought it was just a tasty little passage, so. Ahem. Quince can be a hard sell because, well, everything about quince is hard. The fruit isn't just firm like a pumpkin. It's dense and murder weapon hard. It could easily double as a blunt instrument. The skin is a right royal pain to peel off. The tight, grainy cores give even the sharpest knives a run for their money. And to top it all off, the exposed flesh oxidizes as fast as an artichoke. This means sliced, raw quince needs to be dunked into acidulated water, which is just a fancy term for water in lemon juice. To keep it from turning brown. Small wonder few cooks still care to bother with them. And yet, those of us who love quince willingly put ourselves through these trials to experience its fragrant, honey like taste and strangely addictive grainy texture and its magical rosy red hue, which appears when the fruit is exposed to heat and forms anthocyanins.

Skye 1:29:12

That was really horny.

River 1:29:14

Yeah,

Poppy 1:29:15

Yeah, it was pretty horny.

River 1:29:17

yeah. I started sweatin a little bit.

Poppy 1:29:20

Go get you a quince.

Skye 1:29:22

Wow.

Poppy 1:29:23

Um, so yeah, so that last little bit. So when it's cooked, it actually turns red. The flesh is usually white. Um, but that's, it's pretty cool when you add heat, it turns red. And that's because, there are these pigment compounds called anthocyanins. They're antioxidants and they're bound to tannins in the raw fruit. Then when you add heat, the tannins break down. It releases that red pigment. pigment. So it turns from this creamy white to like a pink, maybe even down to like dark red. Um, so it's pretty cool.

Skye 1:29:55

wine red. For those who didn't know, that's probably obvious, but like, science matches up

Poppy 1:30:01

Yeah. So anthocyanins are red in acid. And of course, like most fruit is acidic, um, but they're purple when they're neutral or basic. So I wonder if you, if you like cook some quince and then you like dump some baking soda in it or something, is it going to turn purple? I don't know. Someone try tell me. okay, so, coming back to the chthonic, I'm going to talk about Melanoi. Have you guys met Melanoi?

River 1:30:26

not. Haven't had the pleasure.

Poppy 1:30:27

Yeah, so Melinoy is a, Greek goddess, she's actually, like, more in the public eye now, because apparently there was a video game that came out in May of this year called Hades 2, the sequel to Hades, and the protagonist in it is, yeah, so the protagonist in this sequel is, Melinoy. so she is said to be either the daughter of Hades and Persephone or of Zeus and Persephone. And the name Melione comes from the Greek melon. which means having the color of quince, so that's kind of how it ties in. so in some tellings she's yellow, like quince, but then also in some tellings she's half, like, cut down the middle, half black, half white. And depending on who her dad is, it's either black for Hades, white Persephone, or black for Persephone, white for Zeus. So she's half and half. Um, she is the goddess of ghosts, nightmares, and bringer of madness.

Skye 1:31:27

Oh,

Poppy 1:31:28

Yeah.

River 1:31:29

Need to smoke a blunt

Skye 1:31:30

you know, how, like they say that Dionysus is sometimes the son of Hades and Persephone. This is just an AU where instead of them having a son, they have a daughter. So it's just

River 1:31:41

Yeah.

Skye 1:31:42

of Dionysus, they have her and she's the madness bringer, you know,

Poppy 1:31:46

So the Orphic hymns describe her as unleashing night terrors on men and driving them insane. So I'm going to read a quick passage. Partly black thy limbs and partly white, from Pluton dark, from Zeus ethereal bright. Thy colored members, men by night, inspire when seen in spectred forms, with terrors dire. Now darkly visible, involved in night, perspicuous now they meet the fearful sight. Chthonian queen, expel wherever found the soul's mad fears to earth's remotest bounds. So this passage also implies that in addition to her relationship with, terrors and the night and nightmares, she also has that connection to the actual passage of the soul. so again, we see that tie between sleep and dreams and the passage into death, which we explored heavily in our Oniromancy episode. If you haven't listened, episode four, go on that, give it a little try.

River 1:32:45

a good one.

Poppy 1:32:45

So symbolism, also fertility. I feel like basically anytime you have a fruit, you're gonna have a fertility theme there, right? Um, abundance, love. I also think that we can apply it to chthonic aspects though. I didn't really see that. Online when I was researching, but based on it's tied to a Melanoid and some of its properties. So cooking, it turns its flesh from white, like a creamy white to a pink or even deep red. And in that you have a literal, Transition, literal transformation, visible one. so the white to red could, if you'd like, symbolize, like, innocence to, to corruption or innocence to knowledge, kind of like the pomegranate. it's also thought to be, like the pomegranate, potentially the forbidden fruit that was present in the Garden of Eden. Um, however, I will say, Eve would have had to cook it to eat it. So I don't know. I feel like it's less likely.

Skye 1:33:44

I've also

River 1:33:44

Yeah.

Poppy 1:33:45

like an apple. I've heard fig too. I think like anything round. I don't know what the exact like original verse is that describes it, like back before it was translated.

Skye 1:33:59

don't have.

Poppy 1:34:00

Oh, that's been translated like 20 times though. so there's, there's that transition, um, and if you look at the quints in this light, transformation can be a symbol of mortality because you have that link to corruption and knowledge and loss of innocence. So I think it can also be a good symbol for, realizing your potential or like taking a leap of faith. like if there's something that you know you need to do to grow, but it's really scary because there, you know that there's no going back. I think the quince can be a symbol of that because when you cut it, you cut into it, it's white and you know, it could just sit there. Or, you can add that heat as a catalyst. You can cook it so that you can actually consume it. And yes, in doing that, it's going to turn red. You can't go back to white. But now you can actually use it. You can, like, realize that potential, rather than

Skye 1:34:54

what if someone ate

Poppy 1:34:55

sit there.

Skye 1:34:56

like their wedding night, like the night before they got married or something, you know what I mean?

Poppy 1:35:00

I like that.

Skye 1:35:01

Someone,

Poppy 1:35:02

A virgin?

Skye 1:35:03

I don't think you have to be a virgin,

Poppy 1:35:06

Of course.

Skye 1:35:08

and planning on being married, give it a think.

Poppy 1:35:10

I would like to try quince, I think. It sounds intriguing, based on the flavor profile that I've heard described.

Skye 1:35:16

vanilla bean ice cream.

Poppy 1:35:18

Ooh, yeah, I mean, kind of, if it's kind of like apple and pear, but has that little hint of sweetness with it, yeah, Yeah, so there's also that tie into melanoid. So I think it could be used as a ward for or ward against nightmares. If you're struggling with nightmares and you want to maybe appease her, maybe have a little, um, use a little Quince. Uh, so what to do with it? Obviously you have to cook it. it's also in season now, like pomegranates. apparently it's really good in pies and tarts. and if you make preserves from it or the marmalade, it's said to pair well with every cheese.

Skye 1:35:55

Bold

River 1:35:56

Every cheese. Yeah, there's a

Poppy 1:35:58

cheese. Yeah. There's a lot of cheeses.

Skye 1:36:01

What happens if you do eat

Poppy 1:36:03

Yes.

River 1:36:03

Aromatino would just taste really bad.

Poppy 1:36:06

Yeah. I, I don't think it's going to hurt you necessarily. I think it's just hard to eat cause it's like really hard. It would be like eating like a butternut squash raw.

Skye 1:36:14

like tough? Like starchy and just like hard to bite into? Okay.

Poppy 1:36:18

I believe so. You can make a tea from it. So this is a common recipe is to cut it up and put it in some water with some either lemon peel or orange peel, some ginger, and just simmer it for like 30 minutes. When it's done, you can add a little bit of honey. And you have a nice little quince tea. And I think if you're trying to ward off nightmares, maybe make a little bit of that tea, sip, sip before bed, ward off those, uh, those nighty nightmares. Um, but yeah, you know, plenty of different ways to use it. Use it however you want. But yeah, to sum up, it's just a fruit that we don't really think about the least popular fruit in North America, but it is full of potential. I would love to try it. You can use it for offering spell work, anti nightmare tea, or if you're just wanting to expand your horizons and try something new, see if, uh, see if you can get some quints at your local

Skye 1:37:06

I feel like a Trader Joe's might have it.

Poppy 1:37:08

Maybe, or like a fresh market, Whole Foods, yeah.

Skye 1:37:12

you get that?

River 1:37:13

couldn't tell ya. There is, um, no. Yeah. There is a man on YouTube, I forget what his handle is, but his whole deal is just eating strange, unpopular

Skye 1:37:28

Oh.

Poppy 1:37:30

Oh, he's definitely done Quince then.

River 1:37:32

gotta look it up later.

Poppy 1:37:34

I'm intrigued by the color change.

Skye 1:37:36

I feel like that'd be really fun for kids. Like, I feel like if you had kids

Poppy 1:37:40

Mm hmm.

Skye 1:37:40

look at this weird looking fruit that you've never seen in your whole life, and then you cook it with

River 1:37:45

Watch it do this.

Skye 1:37:47

like a science, like, experiment, pretty much.

Poppy 1:37:50

And anthocyanins are also water soluble, so they're gonna seep into whatever liquid you're cooking it in, too, so you could do, do something with that. Maybe, I don't know if they can be used as a dye or not. Yeah, so that's that. How we doing, everyone?

River 1:38:08

My belly's full. I just ate so much.

Poppy 1:38:13

Nom, I learned, I laughed,

River 1:38:16

served. I served. I ate. There are no crumbs.

Poppy 1:38:22

and I, I hope all of our listeners enjoyed it, too.

River 1:38:25

I hope you guys like that.

Skye 1:38:26

If y'all have ideas or have used the foods that we mentioned in ways that we didn't mention, let us know.

River 1:38:33

Yeah. If you've ever participated in homophagy, let me know. Write in. Send us an email.

Poppy 1:38:41

have 911 on the phone.

River 1:38:42

to hear it.

Skye 1:38:44

No, we're not narcs.

Poppy 1:38:45

Yeah, no, but yeah, just like, send us your recipes, send us your dreams, um, send us your spells. Send us anything and you can, uh, you can direct that to death Coven pod@gmail.com. That's death as in death, coven as in coven, pod as in podcast@gmail.com. And we also have an Instagram if you'd like to interact with us. There it is at death. Coven Pod spelled exactly how it sounds, right. Do we have anything else for him? Team.

Skye 1:39:20

Go take an oat bath. Make an apple pie. Drink a beer.

Poppy 1:39:24

Yeah.

River 1:39:24

of

Skye 1:39:25

Yeah.

Poppy 1:39:26

Ugh. Chug some milk.

River 1:39:28

some milk. Eat a steak. Do a backflip. In that order. And then run a mile. Yeah.

Skye 1:39:36

eat what you are able

River 1:39:37

Yeah.

Skye 1:39:38

What is accessible to you and what your body will allow. Yada, Yada, yada,

River 1:39:43

Also, if we didn't mention anything that you think would be associated or cool with the gods, let us know.

Skye 1:39:50

Yeah, what are your associations with these gods if you work with them?

Poppy 1:39:54

Or other gods. Whoever you work with. Tell us about them.

River 1:39:56

I'm always looking for new recipes. I need something.

Skye 1:40:00

Give me something delicious.

Poppy 1:40:02

Alright. And so by the power of three?

Skye 1:40:05

And so it is.

River 1:40:06

And so it is.

Poppy 1:40:08

And so it is. Here we go.

River 1:40:13

And this is the outro. Yeah.

Skye 1:40:16

pizza I'm

River 1:40:16

I'm kind of hungry. On some real shit. Oh, that sounds so good. Pizza.

Poppy 1:40:22

Pizza. Pizza.

Skye 1:40:23

Who's the god of Pizza.