Episode 15: Saint Spotlight: St Francis of Assisi

Welcome or welcome back dear listeners! Join us in this weeks episode as River takes us through the fascinating and sometimes heartbreaking story of St Francis of Assisi. Learn about the man who founded a revolutionary religious order in medieval Italy, wrote the first poem in vernacular Italian, and charmed most everyone that met him through his sincerity, humor, and conviction. You'll also learn some ways of working with St Francis of Assisi that can assist you in your own spiritual practice, from petitioning for the health and safety of your beloved pets to matters of self assurance and faith. We hope you enjoy the episode, River certainly enjoyed yapping about this saint :^)

*Sources*

Reluctant Saint: The Life of Francis of Assisi by Donald Spoto 

St. Anthony's Tongue: St Francis of Assisi (podcast)

Transcript

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 0:17

Are you, do you have your notes and your BIPs and your BAPs?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 0:21

I got my notes and I've got my books and I've got my socks on so I'm nice and comfortable.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 0:27

Oh shit, wait, let me pull up this hypothetical actually I was like, I don't need any notes today.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 0:32

Oh yeah, and River's also got just Garnet snoring in the back, but that's not, that's out of their

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 0:36

The repetitive um, uh, Oh, oh

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 0:41

not even be able to hear it if I turn studio sound on for my mic for this one, but I might not because because of my, my gay little flourish when I speak, sometimes it makes me sound really garbled when I turn on studio sound. Yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 0:54

yeah, Okay, before we get started, should we send up a quick prayer to St. Francis that we don't have any audio issues and,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:03

We can. Do you want me to get my prayer candle that has his

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:06

you should, yeah, I think so, because I,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:08

Yeah, and say

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:09

Ooh, and I can light a candle. One moment please.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:12

I would hate for something to fail and then River has to redo the entire episode. That sucks,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:19

Yeah, cause I want it to be candid. I want to learn

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:21

I know how much it sucks.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:24

To redo,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:24

frickin get through an entire episode and then realize it's lost and you're just like, I poured my heart into this and now I have to redo it and it's not gonna be fresh and new anymore.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:35

Yeah, I mean, knock on wood, um, Typically it is Death Covenant standard to have technical issues That's not a jinx, I'm just saying I think that that's a testament to us getting better.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:49

Okay, I'm back. So we have two options. We have two options. We've got, uh, the prayer card which is more pet centric. And then we have this one on the back of the prayer candle, which is more general.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:05

I think for us we should do the candle. But you should still mention the pet one maybe later on when it's more relevant.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:12

don't you worry your pretty little red stained lips. I

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:15

Shut

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:16

this is just like a really nice prayer card. It's got like gold lining on

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:21

the, the gold foil.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:23

It's laminated. Gorgeous.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:25

with, um, Saints, do they have, do they all have little cards? Is it like a collectible card game? Can you trade and

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:30

pretty much. It's like baseball cards.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:32

they have their metals

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:34

Yeah, you got medals. statues, candles, cards.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:39

a little baggy of their remains.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:41

Garnet has, um, dirt from the basilica that St. Francis is buried under on the back of her medal on her collar.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:48

Oh my god,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 2:49

you can have anything. It's crazy. Alrighty, we're in church now. In the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 2:58

Question is it right left or left right?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 3:01

left right?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 3:03

Thank you. Okay, continue.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 3:05

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is discord, agreement. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. And where there is sadness, joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may be consoled, understood, loved, and blessed. For it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen. And then if you have anything specific you'd like to put in there for the petition, you may do so.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 3:40

St. Francis, please bless and guide our podcasting efforts today so that we do not lose the entire episode to which is dedicated to you. pretty please. Thank you.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 3:55

And if you could just like, make my cat chill out a little bit. While I have you on the line, like if you could,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:03

While you're listening,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:04

Uh, if you could like, tone it down a little, if you could have him tone it down a little bit that'd be great.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:09

If we're asking for cat blessings, can you please take a look at Harvey's eye? Cause it's still really messed up.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:16

Amen.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:18

Amen.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:18

of the father, the son, and the Holy spirit. Amen.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:22

Beautiful. Gorgeous.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:24

Hypothetical?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:26

Are we jumping in? We don't

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:27

I'm waiting for my

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:28

intro. Oh, okay. It's fun little

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:31

I mean, we should probably do an intro.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:33

I don't know if that's

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:34

that that was the

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:34

or if we're, I didn't know if that was just for us or if that was like the actual intro.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:40

We'll find out in the edit. I don't know.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 4:41

Okay, today is a river centered episode, or a river led episode. Do you want to take the wheel and tell us what you're going to talk about?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 4:50

I suppose I will. Um, so this is a me episode. Welcome to the podcast. I'm River. How you doing? I'm one third of this beautiful, silly little trio that you're listening to right now. And today we're talking about something that I hope to make a relatively reoccurring fixture on the podcast, who's to say how regular, I truly don't know. But today we're going to be spotlighting a saint because part of my practice is working with saints and I want to talk about it

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 5:25

I want to listen to it.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 5:27

And I'm so

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 5:27

and I want you guys to hear it. And I'm excited to actually be doing my own river focus episode. A lot of pressure.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 5:36

I feel like this is truly one of those circumstances where Skye and I just have no knowledge. So

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 5:45

you guys, cause I feel like Poppy growing up Catholic also, you have like more of an exposure and an experience with saints in general, but like what are you guys rocking with in terms of like knowledge generally?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 6:00

we did like saint spotlights, you know, like every Sunday when we did like Sunday school they would talk about a saint or like multiple saints and their history and like What you prayed to them for, et cetera, et cetera. I don't remember anything at all from that. So

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 6:17

Yeah. Mm

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 6:19

that was probably my only exposure. And I'm sure that they must've talked about St. Francis during that, because he's like one of the, most well known saints.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 6:28

hmm. Highly regarded. Very popular. Anything to add? Skye, what are you rocking

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 6:33

Uh, until meeting you, goose egg. Nothing. Um. I mean, other than just like knowing that saints existed in whatever is popular in pop culture and just being in vague

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 6:47

Yeah, the cultural zeitgeist of like, I know what a saint is.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 6:54

I truly didn't even know like the real definition of what a saint is and I can't wait to hear you describe it because I'm still like, I didn't know that, well I don't want to spoil it. Well, I guess it's not spoiling, but like, I personally didn't know until very, very recently, like, I don't know, a month or two ago, that you had to be dead to be a saint.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:11

Well.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:12

Most of the

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:12

Most of the

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 7:13

To be canonized, I would say. To be officially canonized,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:17

Which is a whole other thing, because there are like hundreds of saints that aren't actually

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 7:21

Yeah. And that's part of my little

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:24

Yeah, okay. I won't touch it. We won't touch it. Before, since we're, on track. Let's do our little game so like we said, this is a river led episode, which is why this hypothetical is very river centric. But we'll, we'll all,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 7:41

A game about

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:42

say what your least favorite thing about river is.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 7:47

And I am taking notes and I'm listening intently. And I will remember this.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 7:52

I wish that River would love themselves more, personally. That's my least favorite thing about them.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 7:58

Fuck you. Why would you say that?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 8:01

I wish River would stop brushing their teeth so hard.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 8:05

Me too, brother. My gums do too. I haven't brushed my teeth yet today. And when I do, I'm going in hard.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 8:12

It's a recording tradition for you to not have your teeth brushed.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 8:15

It's 10am on a Sunday. What do you want from me?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 8:18

it helps the audio.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 8:21

I showered. Can I have a round of applause for that? I did shower before this. Thank you.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 8:27

Um, okay, Let's all close our eyes for a second here. I need you to visualize for me. So just picture, we finish recording, the sun has set, it's dark outside. You realize, oh man, I need to go outside, I need to check the mail. Um, you walk outside, you go down to your little mailbox, you open it. You pull your mail out, and you feel a presence behind you. You feel like you're being watched. So you quickly turn around and you come face to face with the most beautiful person you've ever seen. They gaze into your eyes and it's almost like you're hypnotized. Then suddenly, they sink their teeth into your neck and begin to drink. you pass out. You wake up laughter

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 9:20

This really is for me,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 9:21

You wake up in your bed the next morning feelingstrange. Your senses are heightened. You feel abnormally strong and sensitive to light. You have the feeling that you're probably immortal now. And, for some reason, you're unable to enter other people's homes without an explicit invitation. Also, you need to drink human blood now. What's your day one strategy? And Since you're immortal now, first thought, what are you going to be doing with your next century?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 9:54

I can't work at the job that I have right now anymore. It would be, I would be incapable of doing it. close and personal with so many people.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:03

true.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 10:05

And sometimes, like, you can feel, you can feel their pulse when you're working on them, so

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:10

Eww. Yeah. Would you try to find the person that turned you? Cause they didn't let you die.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 10:18

No, I think they would come to me if they so chose. I feel like it would be really hard to find them, so I'd just kind of have to wait it

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:24

I imagine that they would probably be like keeping tabs on you from afar to like see, like if they found you like ravaging in like a, uh, alleyway somewhere they'd be like, Hey, hey, hey, Hey,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 10:36

raise you like that.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:37

You didn't raise me.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:39

I'd be pissed off, first of all. Like, I know that this is like River's dream, probably. But I would be like, this is not according to plan. This is, this is a huge

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 10:50

love the sun.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:51

I love the sun.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 10:53

out in the sun.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 10:55

I love the sun, but also, I'm like, this has thrown a huge wrench into my life. And now this has just become a burden for me to deal with how to navigate this whole situation. Like, do I tell my husband? Like, I'd have to.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 11:10

He's Italian. You can't eat garlic anymore.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:13

he would turn me and he would try to kill me probably. He'd be like, that's not my wife anymore, she's a monster.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:18

I feel like if you were able to, if you started killing people, maybe, but I feel

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:23

I'd have to, that's how you live as a, as a vampire.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 11:27

We don't have to drain them fully. You can just, like, do the little

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:31

can

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:31

But at the beginning, you wouldn't be able to help it. Also, stealing from a hospital seems very difficult.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:36

he'd probably turn you in more for stealing from a hospital than from like Mm

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:43

where we live, there's a community for people who would probably be really into it.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 11:49

That's what I'm saying. Like, I, I feel like my food source would be pretty easy to track down because I live in a city full of freaks.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 11:57

Like, do you think that you could go onto, like, a dating website or something? Like, and, and, like,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 12:04

Could I go on to vampirefreaks. com? Yeah, I could. Yeah, it is. ask me why I know that.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:12

Ooh, 20 percent off Vampire Freaks brand merchandise right now.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 12:17

It's for the holidays. Get it quick.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:20

so this is what happened to all the scene girls. Damn, this is actually pretty cute.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 12:25

like a legitimate website.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:28

Wow, I think I just found my wedding dress.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:31

But yeah, that'd probably be my, my go to mode would be, like, How can I do this ethically? Consensually, because I know I'm in an area where I'm like, I feel like people would probably think it's just like a maybe a kink thing or like a False vampire thing where it's like, yeah, they'll they'll maybe cut me and drink my blood But then it you'd reveal like no, it's real. It's true and

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:52

Yeah,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:53

it.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 12:54

Oh

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 12:54

yeah. What is that? There was a TV show you and I watched, Sky. It was called like Bizarre Love or some shit like that, and one of the episodes was about like a polyamorous vampire triad. So

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:10

Yeah,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 13:10

market's there.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:12

yeah, for sure.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:14

am I extra sexy in this situation because I'm a

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:16

Well, the one that bit you was, like, the most beautiful you've ever seen, so yeah, probably it makes you, like,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 13:22

You've got that allure, that vampiric allure.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:25

be worried about how I'm gonna make money though, unless I'm like, having people pay me for these services where it's consensual but it's also a business transaction to be like, Hey nasty little freak who wants me to drink their blood, like you gotta pay for me to do that.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 13:41

Yeah. Here's my Venmo.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:42

That's the thing, because, like, vampires in, uh, fiction are always rich, but I think that's because, I think it's because they're immortal and they have a long

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 13:53

Yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:54

build up the wealth.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 13:55

And also you can steal from the people you kill.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 13:58

True, if you do have those, like, hypnotic Powers,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 14:03

I think that they're tricking people into being put in, like, wills and being, like, beneficiaries and, uh, gaining property and I think it's those kinds of situations. Oh yeah.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 14:15

My Bitcoin, my vampire

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 14:18

uh, Carlisle Cullen, and you're a doctor. I feel like I would need to very soon on find a doctor. Another group of vampires because I don't think I could do it alone. I would need like a vampire coven Mm

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 14:33

I feel like eventually I would get bored and lonely, but I think at first I'd just be like scaling walls and shit, and like scuttling around.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 14:42

my immediate problem Would be like this current life, like I don't think that I, I would be like, how do I navigate being a vampire first? And then once everyone I know starts dropping off and dying and then it's like the years are flying by, only then would I be like, worried about forever,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:00

now it's like how do I go to the store and get cat food for my cats because it's bright outside

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 15:06

Chewy. com, get that shit

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:08

True, we live in the 21st century.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 15:11

I feel like it'd be relatively easy to be a vampire, truly, these days. You just get everything delivered,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:17

you'd have to get, like, a remote online job, probably.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:20

You think you could find a way to have blood just sent to your house online somehow? Even on like the dark

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:26

Uh,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 15:28

Oh, absolutely on the dark web, yeah.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:32

Can you, drink other blood that's not human?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:34

I think it depends on the universe, like

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 15:36

It doesn't really like fill you up and it's not like great for you, but you will survive.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 15:44

I don't know if that's just a, like, um, modern vampire lore thing that started happening because people now wanted to fuck the vampires and wanted you know, to feel less bad about it.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 15:58

Cowards. I'd be fine if you killed me afterwards.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 16:02

you be fine if they killed, like, a random other person, though? Just all the time? Just to eat lunch? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly, River. Your big heart.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 16:11

if it's me,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 16:12

Yeah.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 16:14

I'd be like, yeah, that's hot as fuck. Go

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 16:16

Yeah. And also, you guys are like, River doesn't eat garlic already, and y'all are, I mean, River's a pescatarian, Skye, you're a vegetarian, you probably taste so good.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 16:28

Now I'm just living in a world where I'm a vampire and I got bit by a vampire. I'm not even just, I'm just living in this

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 16:34

Yeah. That, that was the point. This is for you, baby. This, this

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 16:38

Wow. Thank you. I don't know. I feel like I would get like weirdly into like niche interests because I'd have so much time to do everything. And I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to build a boat. Yeah, I'm going to start doing taxidermy. Yeah, I'm gonna learn how to, like, play the flute or whatever.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 16:58

your pilot's license,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 16:59

Yeah, why not?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 17:02

Any follow up questions? Are we satisfied?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 17:05

So is this gonna happen to me tonight or am I gonna go to bed sad?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 17:09

Well, the whole thing was after recording when it's dark outside, so unless we run out the clock, I don't think so, yeah.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 17:17

We got stuff to do. We gotta go shopping

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 17:20

Yeah. What would you do to prepare if you knew that you were going to be turned, like, tonight though?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 17:26

I would buy blackout curtains. First and foremost. Yeah, I would probably call my family and be like, Hey, you're not going to see me for the holidays and probably anytime during the day after that.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 17:40

Would you tell them or would you just be like, hey, I'm fine, but? They might think that you're like mentally ill though. They'd be like, I think we

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 17:48

they might, but they're so used to my, my eccentricities at this point that they'd be like, Hey, all right, man, go on.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 17:57

I would tell Michael. I would be like, hey, heads up.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:01

Just so you know. And he'd be like, Man, it's my day off. Like, why are you putting this on

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:06

I don't think he would believe me. I think that he would think that I was having a mental break. And he would be texting you, Poppy, about it and being like, Skye's freaking out, I don't know what to do.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:17

And I'd be like, Nah, man. She's 100 percent right now. We just Well, thank you guys for playing along with me. Um,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 18:24

Thank you for crafting a game specifically for me and my

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:27

You're welcome. We'll see what I come up with for Sky's first, like, true solo. Alright, take it away.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 18:35

So, you guys are ready to learn about Saints

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:39

I'm so ready.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 18:40

and our very first ever Saint Sowed, as I'm calling it. first we got to zoom out a little bit and figure out what, what's a saint? What is a saint? What's their whole deal? How do you become a saint? Who's a saint?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 18:56

dying to know.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 18:58

And I'm glad I asked because now I can tell you all these things that I've learned from my little, my little pocket dictionary of saints that I got by Donald Atwater. Great book. Love this book. So the word saint comes from the Latin word sanctus, meaning hollowed, consecrated and made holy to God. The earliest writers referred to saints only as the collective, because way, way, way back when, before the Bible was like properly compiled in the way it is now, like, everyone had that divinity in them, and it was sort of like a goal to live as a saint. It wasn't like a special term that only a few people could have. But then After a time, it especially became applied to martyrs and the first monks because they like really devoted their life to God so much that they were willing to die violently for it in the case of martyrs. So a saint is somebody who gives their life entirely over to God in one way or another. And it's really just a sign of respect and a title showing their devotion and that they commanded public veneration for God. And we got two types of saints. We got martyrs, obviously. And then we have confessors. Martyrs, you know, historically obviously died violently because of their conviction in their faith. And after the grant of toleration in 313 by Constantine, Uh, the heavy persecution of Christianity was a lot more lax. They weren't actively being killed for it, so martyrs weren't happening as frequently. And confessors were those who, by confessing the Christian faith in their lives, they were bearing witness to the same degree as martyrs. By their death. So it was the same sentiment, but different ways of execution. No pun intended. That was good, right? That was a funny little joke.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 21:09

That was good.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 21:10

You got a question?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 21:11

So, obviously Christianity started, like, with Jesus. Jesus is not technically a saint, right? Because he's

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 21:20

No.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 21:22

like acts are what saints are emulating? The martyrdom and the like devotion to God is that?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 21:31

Yeah, and I would say again, I'm not an expert. I am not like a capital C Catholic. I'm a folk Catholic practitioner. So I am not, again, to go back to the first episode, I am not a historian. I'm not a theologian, etc, etc. etc. A doctor. anything like that. Oh god, I wish. But, while Jesus is not a saint, he was, like, the closest a human could become to their connection with God. So he was, like, the perfect blend of human and divine in, like, a living, breathing, tangible way. And saints, while everybody does have that divinity within them, and they can like, work towards strengthening that, it's like a separate title from what I can really understand and gather, where like, they are fully human, but they are like, practicing and living the gospel in a way

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 22:38

Mm

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 22:39

they acknowledge that it's literally impossible to be at the standard that Jesus was, so therefore saints are a step below?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 22:49

Hmm.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 22:49

the highest that you can get as a human without being Jesus, so to speak.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 22:54

Maybe. I'm really, I'm not sure like what the, the hierarchy is in the capital

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 23:01

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 23:03

but

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 23:03

the whole miracles thing because Jesus had miracles

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 23:06

yeah, yeah. And miracles are attributed to saints, but it's that weird, the, the recognition that like Jesus was the Father, Son, Holy Spirit incarnated into one being. And he's his own thing, separate, going on over there, and we are people that have that divinity in us, and are able to do wonderful, miraculous things, but we are not, like, Jesus. And then it gets into a whole, like, well, aren't we all, if we have that, like, divinity within us, inherently,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 23:41

Yeah,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 23:41

it's a, it's a swirl of

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 23:42

I feel like with Saints, it's like a, because we are all human, but like Saints make the choice to live as close to God as they can, so it's not that they're like inherently more divine, but that they have become more divine.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 23:59

is, there's a little quote from the Pocket Dictionary of Saints by Donald Atwater that I just showed you guys and I think he said it like really succinctly he puts it better than I probably ever could. If you give me. a thousand years and a thousand typewriters and a thousand monkeys, I don't think I could ever say it as clearly as this. But the quote from the Pocket Dictionary of Saints is The saints are those who accept and cooperate with grace more wholeheartedly and more selflessly than do others, to a superlative degree. They become Christ like through the help Christ gives them. So it's not about, like, BECOMING Christ, but Christ like. And living the gospel and doing the best you can, in whatever path that presents for you. Now all this being said, A person is not magically a saint by the process of canonization. Canonization is a very intensive multi step process by the Catholic church, and it's only been fully in effect since 1634, which is kind of crazy. But it's, it's got several layers and levels of investigation and like titles of honor before you fully reach sainthood in the church. Eastern Orthodox churches also have their own formal methods of canonization, but they're a lot less rigorous and it's on a much smaller scale than the Roman Catholic Church does. And while some Anglican and Protestant churches do recognize saints, they do not partake in the practice of canonization. So it's really just the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Churches, but mostly the Roman Catholic Church.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 25:47

have a question. Is there an average? timeline of how long canonization takes,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 25:57

No, some saints were canonized very quickly after their death. Some take a very long time. It kind of has to do with the investigation. And the general, like, public, sort of, like, vying for the person to become a saint. Like, the public approval behind

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 26:17

like what they stood for, what they did in their life, how prominent they were in their community,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 26:22

witnesses coming forward and, like, vouching for them. Um, Saint Francis was canonized, like, two years after he died, which was very quick. Some saints, it takes years and years and years to become canonized. because a person is not magically, they're not a saint one day and then they are by the process of canonization. There are folk saints, pop culture saints, saints that we don't know the names of. they were lost to history. We'll never know them. And that doesn't make them any less of a saint just because they're not recognized. So you can still honor all saints on November 1st, which is All Saints Day, And it's important to note that a saint is not an immaculate or flawless person, they were simply real people, just like you and I, of various economic status, education, temperament, and ability. They lived in Christ in whatever state of life to which they were called. So anybody can be a saint, don't matter who you are, don't matter where you come from, you got it in you, if you so choose.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 27:32

Question for you, is there anyone in your life who to you, you would deem as saintly? Do you know anyone who? you would consider saintly.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 27:46

I mean, I've said it. I feel like I said it relatively recently. Like, at work, we have a co worker. I can probably bleep this out just so I don't dox her real ass name. I feel like I said somewhat recently, like, is the closest person I have in my life to, like, being a saint.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 28:05

she a Christian?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 28:06

yes, but she, she's not, like, like an evangelical, like, born again. She's very compassionate, she is so kind, she is so thoughtful, will give you, like, the shirt off your back, literally. The shirt off her back, literally.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 28:25

She'll give you the shirt off your back.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 28:27

She'll take your shirt off your back. She'll give it back. to you. And I said, Wow, what a saint. But no, recently, it was like a couple weeks ago, she, we work by a little cake place, and she had like a little, a little carrot cake. And I was like, Oh my god, I love carrot cakes. And she just handed it to me. She said, Here you go. And I was like, Oh my God, thank you. I love you. And she was just great. I'm so happy to have her in my life. Like I'll probably cut this part out, but when I didn't have a car for like the three years that I was working there, she gave me a ride home like every day. Yeah. Like she is just genuinely such a good person,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 29:06

And you can tell it doesn't bother her at all. Like, it just with ease, it comes to her. Like, it's literally nothing to her

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 29:13

She doesn't even have to think about it. She's just like, here you go. So that's who in my life, I would consider like, the closest person I have to being a saint. I don't know if Poppy has one. I don't know if Sky has one.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 29:27

I'm just now learning about what a saint is, so no.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 29:30

you know, sit on it retroactively. Think about it. Probably Michael. I would say he's pretty, he wants to be a saint. He's always talking about his canonization and his sainthood.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 29:43

he wants to do things for the community and be the best person for He thinks outwardly a lot.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 29:52

And that's kind of, that's a big part of being a saint. now that we know what a saint is in a very broad, nebulous, umbrella sense. Who is St. Francis of Assisi?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 30:05

that rascal?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 30:07

is that guy? Who is the man that wrote the Canticle of the Sun? Who is the man that founded the Lesser Brothers and the Poor Clares? Who is this man whose sole focus was living in the quietest simplicity and recognized God in all things? Who is this guy?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 30:28

And where is Assisi? What is Assisi?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 30:31

It's in Italy. again, I cannot state enough how much I am not a theologian or a historian or a biographer that cannot be overstated, but you know, who is a theologian and a biographer? Uh, one Mr. Donald Spotto, who wrote the book, reluctant Saint The Life of Francis of

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 30:54

Reluctant Saint, I love, love that title.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 30:59

It's a great book. I think after you listen to this episode, you should read this book because I am going to like briefly, barely skim the surface.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 31:10

The amount of post it notes that you have in that thing

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 31:13

and I took some of them out. This is after I was like, all right, that can go. That's not going to get mentioned. I didn't even mention all these post it notes in here.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 31:20

Can I borrow it, or is that like your your copy? Okay.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 31:25

It's a great book. It goes into the socio political economic status of medieval Italy at the time, and like, all the things that were influencing Francis life, which are like so important to the context of who he was as a person. Incredible, fascinating historical figure and character and time. So that's where a lot of my information is coming from. And also, I found a very cool podcast. Podcast shout out to St. Anthony's Tongue, hosted by somebody named W. They go in on like Catholic mysticism and saints. They have an episode about St. Francis that I listen to. So I'm getting a lot of good resources. I'm learning, I'm eating it up, I'm living, I'm having a great time. So, we gotta go all the way back to medieval Italy in either 1181 or 1182. It's, it's not super clear what year Francis was born, one of those years. in either 1181 or 1182, A wealthy Italian cloth merchant by the name Peter Bernadone was away on a business trip while his wife, a French noblewoman named Pica de Berlimont, gave birth to their son and christened him with the baptismal name Giovanni de Pietro de Bernadone

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 32:52

Giovanni?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 32:54

Giovanni and Giovanni is the Italian version of John and he was named after John the Baptist And when Peter returns from his little merchant's trip, he's pissed because he doesn't want his son named after some hermit who lived in the desert devoted to God. He was a rich merchant, earthly man, and he said, My son needs a strong Powerful name because names had a lot of significance at the time and they were sort of like a prophecy of what your life would be. And Peter loved France. He loved French culture. A lot of his wealth came from like his French trades in the merchant world. Peter Bernardone loved France, and he said, I can't take away your baptismal name, but We're gonna call you Francesco. Hey, my boy Frankie? we're gonna, cause he was like, you're gonna be the heir to my, my business. And in this house, we love France. And, uh, at the time it was essentially, like, it wasn't an unheard of name, but it was essentially like calling somebody Frenchie. So, he looked at his son and said, you're gonna be named Frenchie. And by all accounts, and even Francis's own account, he spent his youth living in sin. He was a little rascal. He was a, a child of wealth. He was a rich kid. He, he was a playboy. He would. go out with his little delinquent rich kid friends and they would go drinking and they would imitate the troubadours around them and they would like sing to the, the women in the public squares and try to seduce them. They were little, it was a band of little rascals because he was a rich kid. That's all he knew. And that's a very, it's an important and stark contrast to the life he would have later on. He did not spend a whole lot of time in formal education. There were a few years he spent in, like, a primary school for boys at the Church of St. George. And St. George is most popularly well known for like slaying a dragon. He was a knight and he did battle. And also at the time, you know, Francis loved the Arthurian legends of brave knights doing noble deeds, going into battle, the romanticism of it all. And Francis was like, I want to be a knight. I want to be a knight so bad it's crazy. And it left a really deep impression on him for like the rest of his life. And also at the time Francis was living, the crusades were going on. So there was knights all around him, an opportunity to like prove yourself in like a big glorious battle in a big way. And Francis wanted to do that. And he did have a couple notable opportunities to try to prove himself in battle, but ultimately they did not prove fruitful. They did not go well

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 36:15

But he didn't die,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 36:16

but he didn't die. They didn't go well, but he didn't die.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 36:19

But he did become a knight? Or was it like

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 36:22

no,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 36:23

he had an

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 36:24

he, he wanted to go into battle. He was never like a formal knight. But he wanted, like, he wanted to live through that. The first opportunity for him to be a brave, noble knight, there was a civil war going on at the time in the area, and he went off to battle because he wanted to prove himself. And he got captured, and he spent about a year as a prisoner, being held for ransom because he was the son of a wealthy merchant. And he was locked in a cell. Not given a lot of food, not clean, obviously, he got really sick from it. And that impacted his health for the rest of his life. He had recurring bouts of malarial fever for the rest of his life. after that, he never fully got back to being well and healthy. He was always, like, very compromised in his constitution. And the second battle, he never even made it to, his father spent loads of money on armor and a fine horse. Cause he also wanted to like make up for what Francis has already gone through and like, try to lift his spirits up

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 37:41

do it

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 37:42

this

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 37:42

I'm gonna have the right

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 37:43

time I'm gonna do it big. So he's throwing all this money at the most fine armor. And Francis is, he's going off, he's trotting along down the way, heading to battle. And on the way there, he saw and recognized a soldier that he knew. And the soldier had lost his armor and his horse. And Francis said, You know what, I'm gonna give you mine.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 38:09

So you can go die instead of me.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 38:12

Cause he was like, well, you are a soldier, you know how to fight. I don't so I feel like this would be better with you and it's also maybe stated that because of his compromised health he just knew he wouldn't be able to really fight that well. Either way, lost his armor, lost his horse, and Peter Bernardone again was so pissed off because he spent all this money on his little spendthrift son who's just giving it away hand over fist.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 38:46

I wouldn't be happy to be completely honest. Garnet

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 38:51

happy. Not Francis, not his dad. Pico was

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 38:53

so

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 38:56

to do?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 38:56

Peter's like, you're throwing away all these silver spoons I keep giving you. This is

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 39:01

Yeah. And cause he didn't, he didn't really have a concept of like the struggle that other people had to go through. He was like, I'm wealthy. I got money. So after that, Francis returned to his life. He would go away with his father on business trips. He would mine the shop. He was doing general debauchery with his friends. But he wasn't satisfied. He was like, there's something missing. My soul isn't at ease. I'm like depressed and I'm bored and I'm restless.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 39:35

Probably because it was too easy for him, you know what I mean? Like, he, he didn't feel fulfilled,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 39:39

Yeah. He had these, like, big, grand ambitions, that he wanted to, like, go do these big, noble deeds, but he was like, I haven't done anything yet. like, everyone just loves me, and I'm so charming, and I got all this money. And that's boring! And that's very boring to the spirit. So after all this, his early life, we can get into the catalyst for his conversion. She's snoozing, dude.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 40:13

I do have another question.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 40:16

is her bedtime story. Yes.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 40:18

So, he was baptized. His family was religious.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 40:24

Yes. Well, his mother was more religious. His dad was more like, money is my religion. The

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 40:33

Sure.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 40:34

is my religion. Yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 40:35

then you had to at least like, you know, put on the religious face because that was just

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 40:39

Yeah. Not everybody was. like truly to their core religious, but everyone was more or less Catholic. Yeah.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 40:46

So, are you implying that in his early life, religion was not really present or that impactful to him until later in life.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 40:57

Yes, he had a very different relationship to religion in his early life than he did in his adult life, much like myself. It was around, like it was really inescapable in medieval Italy. He went to a primary school in a church. He learned about St. George and St. Martin and, cause they were like brave noble knights. And, like, at the time, God was, like, a threat, you know? If you're not living the right way, you're gonna suffer eternal damnation. It was used as a scare tactic, much like it still is today. So that is sort of what he was growing up in,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 41:43

And the crusades were religious, right?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 41:45

Yeah, they were politically, religiously motivated. Yeah. So where that all changed for him. He's later in his life. He's, you know, early. Well, late teens, perhaps, and time would pass and Francis is still feeling disappointed and dejected with the life around him. And one day he finds himself in front of the old abandoned church of St. Dominic's, about a mile outside of the walls of Assisi. And he went inside to rest, and he sat down among this crumbling, ruined old church. It had cracked walls, broken glass, but the altar and the crucifix above the altar were still intact. So he's sitting down and he's resting, and he's just thinking about stuff. You know how it goes. And he hears a voice alone in the church. There's no one around him. He thought the church had been abandoned. He wasn't sure anyone had been in there for years. And he hears the voice of Christ crucified on the cross above him. And he speaks to him in a tender voice, and he says, Francis, don't you see that my house is being destroyed? Go then, and rebuild it for me. And Francis is like, whoa, whoa, what the heck?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 43:06

just for me?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 43:07

A divine quest for me, this is what I've been waiting for. This is what my soul has been craving. Finally, somebody's telling me what to do. Finally, something I can feel good about. And he took it very literally. Which is Francis motif. He was a very, like, literal, practical man.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 43:28

I gotta fix this church specifically.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 43:31

he said, Alright, this church in front of me, this house of God, is in disrepair. I gotta fix it up. And you can zoom out to the broader church around him at the time, the Capital C Church was in disrepair. A lot of political sabotage and political motivation was in the church at the time. Francis said, alright, I gotta rebuild this church. And how's he gonna do that? how's he gonna find the money? He's got money. But because his father was not really a godly man, he was like, I I know how to get the money, but he's not gonna like it. So he went to his father's storehouse, and he stole bolts of cloth to sell to raise money for the church. And would you believe that Peter Bernardone, once again by his son's actions, was

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 44:31

mean, I wouldn't be happy if I'm being

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 44:34

Yeah, to be fair. Yeah, that's, that's a pretty, that's a

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 44:38

Especially like, imagine today you're, you're not super religious and your son is now, in your eyes, like a fanatic taking your

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 44:48

Yeah. And that's how Peter felt. He was like, you are having some sort of mental breakdown. You are stealing from me. What is going on with you? And Peter, obviously, understandably, was pissed, dragged Francis back home, and locked him in a storeroom for weeks. So once again, he was a prisoner.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 45:11

Disproportionate!

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 45:13

Kinda sucks. Kind of a shithead.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 45:16

I would be upset not that upset.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 45:18

Yeah, well, this is also after a life of like Francis's like, not bad deeds, but he was like, oh my god, my son again is doing some shit. Oh my god. And I'm not a parent, so I really can't speak to like the limit of like parental grace, but this is extreme in my opinion.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 45:39

grounding for sure.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 45:41

Yeah, big grounding. I'm taking your Xbox away, get in the storeroom.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 45:46

in the storeroom, no.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 45:47

Get in the storeroom for a week. So once again, he's imprisoned and that sucks for him. Um, he did eventually get out. There are varying accounts of it. Some say it was divine intervention of how he escaped. More likely, it's that Francis mother, who was always a little bit more compassionate and graceful towards Francis, just let him out while Peter was away on a business trip. And then after Francis escapes, Uh, Peter drags Francis before the bishop of Assisi, which is kind of like the court, you know? And he's demanding to be repaid the money that was stolen from him. He's going on and on about what Francis has done to him and how he needs to make it right. And Francis is just standing there listening, and the bishop is just standing there listening to him say his piece. And Francis did something very theatric after that. He produced a bag of coins and handed it to his father. Strips fully naked of the fine clothes he was wearing. In front of the bishop, hands the clothes over to his father, and turns to crowd and proclaims, Listen to me all of you and understand. Until now, I have called Peter Bernardone my father. But because I have proposed to serve God, I return him the money on account of which he was so upset, and also the clothing which is his. And I want only to say from now on, Our father who art in heaven, and not my father, Peter Bernardone.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:26

Period.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 47:26

he's publicly renouncing his

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:29

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 47:30

renouncing his wealth, and only

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:33

father

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 47:33

God. My father? Heavenly father. I know that's fucking right.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:39

not my president.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:41

Talk about daddy issues though.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 47:44

Yeah,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 47:45

relate to St. Francis

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 47:47

in a lot of ways to St. Francis. I relate to his love of theatrics. I relate to the stripping in public. Never done that, but that sounds kind of badass. Yeah, I got a whole life ahead of me. I just think he's a fascinating, compelling, just really gracious and kind character. And he had a sense of humor that never left him, and he was so charming, and he like really loved everyone. Like, he didn't turn away anyone who wanted to join his brotherhood. I just think he's a very cool person to try to be like.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 48:27

love someone who commits to the bit, which I feel like is probably all saints, but I love, I love a, if you're gonna do it do it.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 48:35

He did it big. Yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 48:38

least when I think about Saints, I don't think of, like, funny, like, big personality people. I think of, like, very subdued, devout,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 48:49

And that is an aspect of it. But there were saints that had, like, anger issues. There were saints that were messy. Just like all of us. And I think that's wonderful. They're just human And I think that's really beautiful. So that's the first key point of his conversion, was the experience he had at St. Dominic's Church and the voice he heard. I'll go through a few other points of his conversion.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 49:17

Wait, real quick, do you know what the bishop felt about that? Was the bishop like, hell yeah?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 49:22

Yes, that's in the book Reluctant Saint. bishop, Guido was his name. Bishop Guido at the time, he had like such a fondness for Francis. Cause he was like, I respect that. I respect who you are and what you're trying to do. And they had like a pretty good relationship for the rest of his life. He was a very important ally for Francis later in his life. So another big point in Francis work and his conversion was his work with people with leprosy. Growing up, Francis, he was aware of lepers. It was kind of impossible to not see them in medieval Italy. They were often, like, outskirted and not in the town because they were pariahs, essentially, but he would see them in the travels with his father. And he was, you know, a pretty spoiled kid. He didn't really have to think about it or care about it. And he, you know, like most children of the time, he thought they were kind of yucky, and he didn't want to Be near them and talk about them. And ever since the experience he had at St. Dominic's church and the profound change he felt within himself. He was no longer able to ignore those suffering and the sick and the dying he saw all around him. In one notable experience, Francis was traveling down a country road after he has renounced his worldly possessions, after he has renounced his father's wealth. I think at the time he literally had like, the clothes on his back and a walking stick. Like he lived in extreme poverty for the rest of his life after that. And he's, he's traveling down the road, and he comes across a leper, and he has no money and no food to offer the leper. All he can offer the leper is an embrace and human compassion, which at the time, was radical as hell because healthy people were not touching lepers, they were throwing money and food from what they considered a safe distance and then like scuttling away. And here's Francis, who has also pretty much done that his entire life, and he recognizes, the dying and suffering and lonely Christ in these lepers, this Christ that spoke to him alone in the church. And he goes, I, I need to embrace you, I need to be with you as you are lonely and dying and suffering. And that was like the key point where he, he really felt that change in him. And he would continue to work with people with leprosy, with the dying, with the ill for the rest of his life. He would feed them, he would take care of them, he would wash them, he would make sure they're safe and they weren't alone. And he, one of the reasons that he founded his brotherhood was at the time, traditional religious orders, you were basically cloistered away in a monastery or a nunnery, and you were not able to work in the world the way Francis wanted to. He wanted to help people and be in the world in a very, like, tangible, concrete way. So that's pretty revolutionary at the time, because nobody, literally nobody was doing it until Francis was doing it. So he was a real groundbreaking kind of guy. And then much later in his life, another big, uh, point. Maybe not of conversion, but a little bit of conversion. he traveled to Egypt. There was another crusade that was called for by the Pope. And Francis Francis, again wanting to do big noble deeds, he wanted to go to Egypt to promote peace and try to convert the Muslim sultan al Malik al Kamil, which was a punishable by death offense in Muslim territories, preaching Christianity publicly like that. And Francis said, no, you know what? going to try it. I'm going to do it.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 53:50

It's giving Chosen One. It's giving, maybe if he hears it from me,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 53:54

Yeah, if I say it, he's going to listen.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 53:58

was he not afraid to die then? He was,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 54:01

No, at the time, especially martyrdom was still considered like the highest form of devotion you could do. So he sort of transferred his desire to be a knight a little bit to the desire to become a martyr because he wanted like big grand sweeping gestures to like prove that he was making a difference, you know? So he's going to Egypt. We're traveling, we're going to Egypt. Vacation! It was not a vacation. it fucking sucked.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 54:35

journey.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 54:37

It was terrible. There was so much foreign illness. The people on this crusade were just, again, politically motivated. And all around him he saw people that were like, not living the gospel truthfully, and that sucked. And so Francis was going, cause he also, he just wanted the war to be over. He was trying to promote peace, and he was like, why are so many people on both sides dying for what? I don't see the point in this. And it does get into it really nicely in Reluctant Saint, again, shout out to Reluctant Saint,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 55:16

What's the guy's name? The author?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 55:18

Donald Spoto, shout out. I don't know if you're still alive or not. Didn't check. he's going into, in the book, the political motivations behind the Crusades, and It's So Francis is in Egypt, he has an audience with the Sultan. The Sultan agrees to hear him out. And the Sultan, a very, a fun little story that showcases Francis humor and charm that I like a lot. Before they get there, Francis and his companion brother from the lesser brothers, the friars that he's collected over the years. The Sultan lays down a flag with a cross before his throne trying to trick Francis and his companion because he says Well, if they don't step forward they're actively disrespecting me and that's punishable and if they do step forward and they step on the flag Then I know they're not real Christians because they're disrespecting God I'm putting them in a gotcha situation no matter what and Francis sees that and his companion brother sees that and the companion brother is like I don't know. This is a real rock and hard place situation. I don't know, I don't know what to do about this, chief. And Francis goes, no, no, no, no, this is fine. And he steps forward and he steps on the flag. And the sultan goes, bro, what the hell? You're stepping on the crucifix. How could you do, you say you're a man of God, how could you do that? And Francis goes, there were three crosses on that hill. How do I know whose that is? Got him. so the sultan sees all that and he goes, you know what? I like you. You're all right. You're pretty funny. You're pretty charming. And he, he opens his home for an entire week to Francis and his brother companion as a guest. And there was a deep mutual respect between the Sultan and Francis. talked about theology. They talked about God. God, Francis did try to convert the sultan because the sultan was also the same age as Francis, and he was also like a deeply devout man. And he recognized another devout man in Francis and his authenticity to his god. And he said, while I don't agree, I do respect you. And he gave him protection and freedom to travel throughout the land to holy sites, because he was, he was just a fun, he was a funny little guy. He was a charming

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 57:52

you just gotta have Riz and then then you're fine. Mm

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 57:59

you. Why would the sultan give audience to Francis? Was Francis and his people well known?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 58:08

He was well known enough at the time, this was after the establishment of the lesser brothers that Francis formed, and they were well known. throughout Europe enough that word had traveled and I think like some of the Sultan's council knew who Francis was and they were like honestly you should kill him because he's Christian and he's trying to preach Christianity in our land which is a capital punishment offense

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 58:40

going on little mission trips and it's kind of cringe.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 58:43

is he's going on little mission trips trying to like preach his Truth of the gospel and the Sultan was like, no, I like this guy. I really like this guy There's something to him. but he was like a very he was a reasonable level headed man the Sultan and he was like I'm not gonna kill this guy for what? He's just a religious man like you and I

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:07

hmm.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:08

both Abrahamic religions I'm sure that they had a lot of things in common to discuss because it's essentially the same God

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:16

And Islam recognizes Jesus just as a prophet, not as necessarily the son of God.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 59:23

yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:23

So. Right.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 59:26

So, the Sultan Kamil and Saint Francis of Assisi, homies for life.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:33

The friends we made along the way.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 59:35

Yeah, truly. But again, Francis was like, I failed to convert the Sultan. I didn't do what I wanted to do. It's just another little disappointment he could put in his pocket.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:46

Well, wait, did it have any impact on the war?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 59:50

not really, not directly, because it was like by the pope and his council that the crusades were going on to like regain the holy land or whatever,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 59:59

it didn't affect him politically at all. I believe, like, the Sultan's political beliefs were probably still firmly set. He just now had a friend who he could, like, debate with.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:00:09

Yeah, and he was doing it more as, um, like the sultan was trying to end the war, but the, the war commander, for lack of a better term, of the pope was like, we gotta, we gotta keep going. Like, we're so close. We're almost there. They're getting their shit rocked at every step and turn, but he's like, we're so close. We gotta keep going. Like, we can win this. And the sultan was like sending out messages of being like, Hey, yeah. This can end right now. Like, I don't want to keep fighting. I don't want you to keep killing your people. I don't want my people to keep dying. Like, he didn't want to fight either. kindred spirits between the two of them for peace. Ba And now we can get into a word Poppy loves,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:00:52

Ah! canticle.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:00:54

of the sun. What do you what's a canticle?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:00:57

I just think Canterbury Tales is what I think of.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:01:01

Okay, yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:01:02

cantaloupe ankle. Real swole. Close!

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:01:09

No, that was a joke. A canticle is a song of praise.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:01:15

okay.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:01:16

and Francis wrote the Canticle of the Sun. Throughout his life he would like fine tune it and add things as he went along and he lived.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:01:28

Sun with an O? Or with a

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:01:30

Sun with a U, Canticle of the Sun in the Sky,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:01:33

Not the sun as in Jesus.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:01:36

No, but he saw, he saw God in all things. He saw God in the sun. He saw God in the moon. He saw God in the water. He saw God in the birds. So the Canticle of the Sun with a U is very much the Canticle of the sun with an O, you know, He would preach to birds and animals because he believed that they were as much of a part of creation as people were, and they deserved to hear the gospel. He said, hey, we're not separate. He would refer to the son as brother's son, and he would refer to the moon is sister moon and he would even refer to sister death because it's all a part of creation. It all has God within it. And he composed what is considered the first poem in vernacular Italian in 1225 groundbreaking trailblazing again. And he wrote The Canticle of the Sun, and I have it here if you

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:37

Yes, I

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:38

it.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:38

it. I was going to, ask.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:40

I'm waiting with bated breath.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:42

You're going to read it in original Italian?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:45

I can't even speak Spanish,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:47

We've,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:48

medieval,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:49

this.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:49

think I can speak Umbrian Italian? Get real, dude.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:53

you're a man of mysteries. Every time we

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:55

Yeah.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:02:56

something new. I wouldn't be

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:02:57

Yeah. No, I don't speak Umbrian Italian, but I can read the English translation for you here today. It's not long, but it's not short. So just be prepared for that. Most high, all powerful, good lord. You are the praises, the glory, the honor, and all blessings. To you alone, most high, do they belong. And no man is worthy to mention your name. Praise be you, my lord, with all your creatures, especially brother sun, who is the day and through whom you give us light. He is beautiful and radiant with great splendor and bears a likeness to you, Most High One. Praise be you, my Lord, through sister moon and the stars. In heaven you formed them clear and precious and beautiful. Praise be you, my Lord, through brother wind and through the air, cloudy and serene, and every kind of weather through which you give sustenance to your creatures. Praise be you, my Lord, through Sister Water, which is very useful and humble and precious and chaste. Praise be you, my Lord, through Brother Fire. Through whom you light the night, and he is beautiful and playful and robust and strong. Praise be you my lord through sister mother earth who sustains us and governs us and produces varied fruits with colorful flowers and herbs. Praised be you, my Lord, through those you give pardon for your love, and bear infirmity and tribulation. Blessed are those who endure in peace, for by you, most high, they shall be crowned. Praised be you, my Lord, through our sister, bodily death, from whom no living man can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin. Blessed are those whom death will find in your most holy will, for the second death shall do them no harm. Praise and bless my lord and give him thanks and serve him with great humility. Amen.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:04:58

Amen. beautiful.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:00

That's Francis, baby.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:02

is this intended to be sung?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:06

Uh, song rhymed. Francis loved to sing, so he was singing

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:11

heard that like in church before, like sung by the priest

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:17

still going. It's

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:18

and I can, I can kind

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:20

perhaps.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:24

you know, one, one of those

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:27

I don't remember it, but I also don't remember much of my church experience growing up because I was very young. So if I did hear it, I don't remember it, but it is beautiful. Mm

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:37

been in like more. recently into church and I, I definitely do remember that and it has that kind of like telltale repetitive cadence that a

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:48

hmm.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:05:49

Catholic like kind of call and responses have.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:05:53

So that's the Canticle of the Sun. Beautiful little piece of poetry. And we hear Francis, in the end, talking of the second death, which is bodily death. Which no living man can escape, obviously. So what's the first death?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:06:10

I was just about to ask. If I had to guess I would say it's like the renouncing, like when you become and accept God or whatever that's your first, like you, the old you dies and then you become

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:06:24

Yeah. It's the death of the ego. It's the death of the old life you need to give up. It's the death of Giovanni Di Piccio de Bernardone, you know? the death he had to go through to become Francis.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:06:39

is interesting that he ended up not identifying with his baptismal name

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:06:46

Mhm,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:06:46

and he went with the name that his father, who he renounced, gave him.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:06:51

and there's definitely still like a through line and the flavors of the themes of the baptismal name, but yeah, he was Francis. Not Francis Bernardone, but just Francis of Assisi. He dropped his father's last name and he just became Francis of Assisi.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:09

he like Francesco de Assisi or?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:07:13

Probably.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:14

I didn't know. if it was like, was like Anglicized, however

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:07:18

yeah. That is the English

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:21

Okay.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:07:21

of it, but it was Francesco. Francesco de Assisi. Or something like that. and now we get to talk about the stigmata. What y'all know about the stigmata?

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:33

Little paw paws.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:07:34

up for the stigmata!

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:35

what about feet?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:07:37

feet? and hands in the

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:07:38

that stigmata are a common, well not common, but it's like, One of those things, what is it called when you, like, see religious iconography in something and then it's blessed as, like, uh, something that can create miracles? Like, you know, seeing the Virgin Mary in, like, a mold stain or in your toast or whatever, like, when you see the stigmata, then it's, like, a sign God

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:08:06

I know it primarily from watching horror movies.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:08:09

Also that. Yeah.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:08:11

Catholicism's kinda scary.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:08:13

Catholicism is kind of scary and kind of

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:08:15

It's very corporeal, I think. It's because Catholicism is very focused on

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:08:22

the blood

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:08:22

body, yeah. And so there's so many opportunities for, to just warp it a little bit and make it horror. Because by doing that, then you also have a solution built in through recognition from God, you know, then you, you have the exorcism route. it's beautiful storytelling. It's perfect for storytelling.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:08:43

It's a very, it's very thematic, it's very theatrical, which is very on brand for Francis. So, speaking of iconography and warping, um, often in iconography, Francis is seen bearing the stigmata.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:09:01

just his palms.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:09:02

Palms, feet, and wound on his side. there are some stories where he received a vision of an angel, of a seraph, giving him the stigmata as a sign of his worthiness in the way that he lived the gospel for his life as a sign from God of approval and but in a more mundane and historical telling, Francis did suffer a lot of illnesses and ailments from his life of extreme poverty, from his life spent caring for the sick. He already had compromised health from being in prison for a year when he was younger.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:09:49

I could see how leprosy sores could be mistaken

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:09:53

And it, and again, not to bring up Reluctant Saint by Donald's photo, but he goes into it. And he did, he was very sick at the end of his life, he lost his eyesight, he was constantly in poor health, he had like, internal organ damage from the extreme poverty and You know, he never really ate a whole lot. So it's hard on the body. It's really hard on the body. And that shows physically and outwardly. So there is a lot of evidence that he had physically expressed ailments and illnesses and sores on his body. And the best way that medieval artists and commenters could really get across the symbolism of Francis connection with the Christ he identified with, which is like the crucified, dying, lonely, suffering Christ, and the patience that takes to live that out to its fruition, to its very end, was by giving him the stigmata in artwork.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:11:03

Oh, so you're saying that this stigmata is not necessarily true. Absolutely. literal, but it's a representation

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:11:09

more metaphorical, depending on what school of thought

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:11:13

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:11:13

want to follow.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:11:15

800 years ago, who knows?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:11:17

who knows? I wasn't there. I can't tell you.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:11:20

They're like, the stigmata's a bit more aesthetically pleasing to put

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:11:23

It

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:11:24

It's easier to get across. It's easier to just, you can see that and understand it. Yeah. You see that immediately and you're like, oh, suffering, Christ like. Got it. Locked in. It's not 20 years of, oh, here's all the work he was doing. Here's everything he was doing to care for other people. But the stigmata in the biblical Greek included not just the wounds, Great endurance in afflictions, hardships, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, and hunger, which were all the hallmark of Francis life. So whether or not it was the literal five wounds of Christ, or just the hardship that Francis joyfully endured, and patiently endured, His example of living the gospel was greatly recognized by everybody, no matter if you took it literally or more metaphorically. He's just a real swell fella. So now that we know about St. Francis of Assisi and the man he was and the life he lived, what can he do for you in your life and your practice?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:12:38

I have two questions before we get into that.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:12:41

please do.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:12:42

First of all, he was never married, right? Or did he

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:12:45

No, he was never married.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:12:48

He, I mean, we probably didn't have kids maybe when he was like a young playboy.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:12:52

Maybe, there could maybe, but there's no recorded.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:12:57

And then second, so can you talk about his death? Is it known

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:13:01

Mm.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:13:02

he died or like how old

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:13:03

Oh yeah. I left it out for like ease of just everything, you know, cause there's so, again,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:13:11

this out if it's like too much.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:13:13

I don't know. We'll see how it goes. But again, in The Reluctant Saint, you go through all of his life up until his death. he was still in good spirits, in good humor, he was still charming and funny up until his death. especially when he was like really suffering and really ill, that's when he felt closest to God. That's when he felt like the most comforted by his face. died when he was 44, I want to say. He was like early to mid 40s.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:13:48

Which was still then

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:13:49

Um,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:13:50

normal.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:13:51

yeah, by today's standards. Cut down on his prime by those standards, like, he was, he was pretty old. He got pretty far. He went through, like, experimental surgeries at the time for his eyesight.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:14:04

Oh no. Oh

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:14:07

it involving like a hot iron rod, like being like scraped and like cut over his temple and like cauterizing the wounds because they're medieval doctors. They don't know jack shit about anything.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:14:21

That's horrible.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:14:22

it's, it goes into it in the book. I think you're going to love it because you're nasty like that.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:14:27

what was the cause of death then? Was it just a

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:14:31

It just various. Yeah, he was just, he was really sick for a really long time for like various different things, and he still was like, not eating a whole lot, he didn't like to eat. One of the things he talked about before he died, his biggest regret, was how he treated quote unquote brother body, and he

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:14:55

yeah,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:14:56

how poorly he had treated himself and his body as a vessel throughout his entire life.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:15:01

a reflection of creation cause it's so easy to, especially when martyrdom is

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:15:07

it's romanticized on

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:15:09

yeah,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:15:10

yeah,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:15:11

sought after and you're like, well, suffering is. a reflection of my faith when really it's like, yes, but taking care of yourself is also

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:15:21

is sleeping, so is eating, so is resting. Yeah, you don't just have

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:15:25

God has given you this life to enjoy. I, so also I was asking about death because I feel like a big part of what makes to me saints so interesting is the after death aspect and like how they're treated because after they die saints often at least in history are treated as commodities because their remains are thought to be able to bring about miracles and like cure disease and whatnot

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:15:55

heal people

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:15:56

so people would fight over their essentially, and like steal from their graves and whatnot. I was just curious to if you had any like details about that.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:16:07

Not particularly. It really doesn't get into anything that happens, like, post death in the book. he did say that before he died, he wanted to be, like, stripped bare and lain directly on the earth as, like, a last, like, embrace of creation because he couldn't see. He couldn't really walk. I mean, he could hear things still really well and really clearly, but he was like very frail and very sick and blind. So he just, up until the end, he just wanted to be with God.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:16:43

Okay.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:16:44

I don't really

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:16:45

And that's what really matters. It's, It's, really just my morbid curiosity and I vaguely remember from Sunday school, uh, ironically, them talking about how St. Francis in particular, remains were moved several times in order to Prevent grave robbers from, like, stealing

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:04

probably if I had to guess before they were placed under the Basilica in Assisi. Yeah, I would have to assume. From which Garnet has a little bit of dirt from. Yeah, we're using graveyard dirt.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:17:19

So what is the Basilica?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:21

Uh, Basilica is um, Essentially like a church, also a headquarters, where like you can go there to worship. Also the, the lesser brother fraternity, which is now called the Franciscan Fraternity, operates out of.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:17:39

So It's his Basilica. It's not like Okay, I didn't

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:44

Yeah, by name and by intention.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:17:46

place that like a bunch of saints or whatever were

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:49

Nope, it's just his basilica in Assisi.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:17:52

Okay.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:53

gorgeous. I looked up images on Google. Gorgeous

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:17:55

Yeah. Sorry for so many questions. This is just, I love it. I, I wanted to

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:17:59

is what I want. Yeah, of

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:18:04

yeah.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:18:04

our practice and our podcast, but yeah. you guys ready to learn about what St. Francis can do for you and how you can ask him for help and support in your practice and your life?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:18:15

I'm excited to hear about, um, the pet aspect

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:18:18

Yeah, I have a personal story from working with St. Francis of Assisi. So his feast day is on October 4th, so we did miss it this year, but mark your calendars for next year. he is regarded as one of the most approachable saints to start working with. He was to a fault accepting of everybody, no matter what,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:18:42

unapproachable saints?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:18:45

Not unapproachable, but some are more intense

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:18:49

Okay.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:18:50

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:18:50

the energy of St. Francis of Assisi is very different from the energy of St. Benedict. like I said, very approachable, very cool, chill guy. Doesn't need anything fancy. If you want to give an offering, it can be very simple, a glass of water, brown candle, an act of service to another person, picking up litter. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. gave him, when I asked for his assistance in intercession, I gave him a piece of Italian bread, because I thought that would be very nice. He is the patron saint of all animals and the environment. That's sort of the um, and Hermes just sneezed as I said that. pretty much like when you google St. Francis. AI overview is like, ah, patron saint of animals and the environment. So that's what he is most known for. So you can certainly ask him for protection and assistance with pets to keep them healthy, to keep them safe. I did ask for his assistance. And I found it in my little, my little journal from the year. It was April of this very year that we're recording at 2024. And as you have heard from the last episode about our little kitty cats, my cats were going through a hard time integrating and living together. And it was really stressing me

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:20:21

Mm hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:20:22

it was really, it was causing a lot of stress on me, a lot of stress on the house.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:20:27

Yeah, Garnet was having, like, physical, ailments

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:20:30

teeth.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:20:31

her, teeth are unrelated. Her teeth, she just has bad teeth, but she was having like stress colitis and she had like a Harpy's flare up in her eye from the stress. She had a gooey eyeball. Yeah. Thankfully hers went away pretty quickly. I'm sorry to Harvey for him, him still having a goopy eye only six months, but. There was a lot of strife in the household, it was stressing me out, and I hadn't even worked with saints before this. This was before, like, my saints. pathway opened up, my saint's arc, yeah. And I'm doing some Googling and I'm like, well I'm a folk Catholic, let's see, and also I'm a witch, I forgot I'm a witch, let's see if I can do a spell about this. I had a brain blast one day, I remembered I was a witch. And I'm Googling, and I'm like, okay, patron saint of animals. lo and behold, St. Francis of Assisi pops up on the Google AI overview, and I was like, sick, this is exactly what I needed. So I'm like, I'm learning a little bit. I did not know, obviously, now that I've read a biography about him, I did not know nearly as much about him at the time as I do now. I just knew he was the patron saint of Pretz, and I was like, this is great.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:21:52

Do you know why that is

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:21:54

Uh, it goes back to the Canticle of the Sun and how he, yeah, he saw God in everything and he treated animals as equal to him as a person through that, like, divine thread.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:22:07

vegan? Like, did he still eat animals. Mm

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:22:11

he because of the poverty, he like foraged a lot and like ate bread and stuff. sure maybe if it was like offered to him as alms, he would probably eat meat, but he

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:22:25

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:22:25

not like actively going out and searching for it. so I gather, I go online and I make my little purchases. I bought a seven day St. Francis candle that I showed at the beginning of this episode. I had a little prayer on the back. burnt that thing

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:22:41

hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:22:42

all the way down.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:22:43

many of those have you been through?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:22:46

Um, of St. Francis, just the one, generally speaking, several. So I go online, I buy my supplies, I buy my little candle, I bought a collar for Garnet. Cause my spell was mostly focused on Garnet, cause at the time she was not doing well. She was very angry, she was getting sick. I got the little medal that has his basilica dirt in it. I'm putting, uh, basil and catnip in a little satchet and I'm putting the metal in the satchet to like soak in just like the calming, peaceful energy of it all. And I'm, I'm saying my prayer, I'm asking for intercession, I'm asking for his help. And I will say every time, cause I, I didn't do a traditional novena where you have the candle burning every single day for nine days, and you're saying the prayer for nine days, I would just light it when it felt necessary. I will say after I lit that candle every single time, shit, calm down in my house.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:23:50

did, you feel his presence?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:23:51

it was very sweet, and very approachable, and very peaceful, which is really like who he was as a person. So he's, he's a very, he's a very friendly swell guy. Very kind man. And I do, I need to do the spell again and I need to make some updates and new additions to it and revise it a little bit. A little refresh because it's been a while and again. ties back into what we were talking about for mental health. I am not only solely relying on magical works for the health of my pets. I did also get Hermes on an anti anxiety medication that's supposed to help him calm down and help him not be so aggressive and too rough with Garnet. So I'm gonna be doing that again. I got him his own little collar and his own little medal and I bought a whole bunch of brown chime candles that I'm gonna be burning and I'm gonna make a new petition for St. Francis. that's one of the ways you can ask for help for um, St. Francis. And that's how I personally asked for help um, many months ago.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:25:03

Do you think that someone could do this just if their pet was, like, in bad health? If it's not stress related, if it's like some other ailment.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:25:12

I don't think it would hurt. It's not, again, it's not, you know, the equivalent of taking them to the vet and getting them checked out, but if you want to throw a little spiritual juice their way,

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:25:21

they can to,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:25:23

yeah, Just the care of and the protection and the safety of animals in like a broad, Umbrellascope. yeah. you can also pray to him if your pet's lost. You can ask him for help finding your pet. You can also throw St. Anthony in there. So that's one way. Pets and the environment is a big one. And looking at the whole scope of his life, which is a very cool thing with learning about saints. They're not just this one thing that they are the patron of. They have a full, rich, deep life of other things. So, in my opinion, and everyone may feel differently and relate to different things about his story, you can ask for St. Francis for help in matters where you desire peace and reconciliation. in your life, you can ask him to help you find comfort if you are in poverty and especially in late stage capitalism of 2024. Poverty is just a really big thing,

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:26:27

Mm

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:26:27

you can, you can look to him for some peace and solace if you find yourself in that situation because that's how he lived his life in extreme poverty I think you can also ask him for help in matters of self assurance and self worth because he Throughout his entire life was constantly feeling like he failed. He wasn't doing the things he had set out to do. He was constantly referring to himself as the useless servant, even though he did like beautiful grand things that are still impactful today, he just couldn't see that at the time.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:27:07

It seems like he's very good with like shifting perspective because I think that, I imagine that after he died, He then can look upon his life and realize the good that he did do, even though it's not what he initially set out to do.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:27:24

And I think you can also, because he was very sick throughout his life, and especially in the end of his life, just riddled with pain and illness, I think you can turn to him for comfort in times of chronic illness and pain. And you can, you can throw your own interpretations in. Truly the only limit is your imagination.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:27:47

Love him.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:27:48

So That's St. Francis. That's St. Francis. of Assisi. Yeah. Questions, thoughts?

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:27:56

as they came up. Thank you for answering them.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:27:59

Happy to do it. Answered them to the best of my abilities. I know I've said it so many times throughout this episode, cannot recommend enough Reluctant Saint, The Life of Francis of Assisi by Donald Spoto. Great book. I learned so much.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:28:16

Did you like the way that he wrote it, too? Like, would you say it's

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:28:19

I did.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:28:19

read in general?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:28:22

There were some parts, because I'm not an academic, I'm not an educated man, I'm a very simple man like Francis. There were some words I had to look up, because Donald Spoto is a theologian and a biographer, But, I did, I felt like it was very accessible at its core.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:28:40

Mm hmm.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:28:42

you guys want to hear the little prayer that's on the little prayer card at the end. We can really round it out. Yeah, the short little pet, uh, short little pet prayer. All right, so all my pets out there, put your headphones on your pets or put it on your speaker. Let your pets hear this because this is for them. In your infinite wisdom, Lord God, when you created the universe, you blessed us with living creatures. We especially thank you for giving us our pets, who are our friends and who bring us much joy in life. Their presence very often helps us get through trying times. Please bless my pet. May my pet continue giving me joy and remind me of your power. May we realize that as our pets trust us to take care of them, so we should trust you to take care of us. And in taking care of them, we share in your love for all your creatures. Enlighten our minds to preserve all endangered species, so that we may continue to appreciate all of your creation. Grant this through Christ our Lord. Amen.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:29:44

Amen.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:29:45

That's for all my pets out there.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:29:47

that to be, Garnet's name instead

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:29:50

Nope.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:29:50

pet?

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:29:51

Oh, during the, when I was asking for help. It was personalized.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:29:56

I feel like that's, that's the case with like most magical workings. As much as you can personalize it,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:30:02

And there's more, I've, again, I only barely scratched the little tip of the iceberg surface. There's so much I had to leave out just for time, but that's our, that's our first Saint sowed. hope to do more of them, we'll see. Maybe it'll be saints I actively have worked with, there's only a handful of them. Maybe it'll just be saints that I'm interested in and want to learn about.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:30:27

at some point,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:30:29

We do have to do archangels at some point.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:30:31

Can we get a little teaser? What other saints have you worked with? What, uh, what

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:30:35

I have worked with, well speaking of archangels, I've worked with St. Raphael, the archangel. I have a little medal of him that I wear every day. I have asked for help from St. Michael, the archangel, as has Skye. I have worked with St. Dymphna and I have recently started asking St. Jude for help. So that's my, that's my rotation that I've been rocking with.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:31:05

Was that the time where you were looking for a St. Michael candle, but all you could find was St. Jude, and you were like,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:31:10

Yeah. Yeah, I was, um, this might get cut. This is very candid, but this was post 2024 election. And I said, I need to get a St. Michael candle quickly because I just used mine up. And they sell them at the local grocery store and they were all out and there was St. Jude. And I was like, you know what? Not what I was looking for, but you're, you'll, you'll do pretty

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:31:35

mm hmm,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:31:35

this case. So you're coming home with me. Well, thanks for listening everybody. Thanks for tuning in. If you made it this far, I hope you liked it.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:31:45

If you have, uh, ever worked with saints, if you have any other insights to share, please let us know. Um,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:31:52

would love to talk about it.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:31:54

Uh, you can send your thoughts, your prayers, whatever you'd like to death. Coven pod@gmail.com. That's death as in death, coven as in coven, pod as in podcast@gmail.com. And we also have an Instagram. Uh, we mentioned River's gonna post some pictures of their sink candles and some other acc, mom. and you can find that at death Coven Pod. on Instagram. Other than that, I have nothing for you. So, by the power of three,

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:32:31

And so it is.

skye_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:32:32

And so it is.

squadcaster-6jg5_1_12-22-2024_101422: 1:32:34

and so it is.

river_1_12-22-2024_101434: 1:32:38

Bye! goodbye, goodbye everyone, bye bye, ta ta.