Death Coven

Episode 27: The Rowan Tree, Spiritual Burnout, and Whale Falls

• Death Coven

Share episode

Welcome back listeners! Join the witches this week as they go over a variety of topics, from trees in high altitude cool climates all the way to the bottom of the deep ocean with a bunch of creepy crawlies, and several spots in between. 


Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review! Join our community of listeners as we explore the mysteries of the afterlife through the lens of witchcraft.

SOCIALS:
Email- deathcovenpod@gmail.com
Instagram- @deathcovenpod

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh, I forgot to take my allergy pill. Let me go do that real quick.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Barry needs one of them.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

he does.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

My.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think River's editing this one, so we'll have to, I don't know where I was going with that. What was I gonna say? Something about their bitch ex-wife. I don't know.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Okay.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The giggle at the background.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

know

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm just getting, I'm minding my own business, getting my little allergy pill, my name, brand allergy pill, and all of a

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Okay, rich.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it's the only ones that work for the generic ones don't fucking work. For some reason, for me, even though it's the same exact ingredient and the same exact dose, they do not work for me.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

this episode is sponsored by Allegra.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Viagra.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

actually.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

my apologies.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

that one doesn't sound like a dick pill.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Uh, more like put it in, am I right?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

A

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

uh, get ready to listen to an hour and some change of that. Everybody

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. I guess we're in. Welcome everybody to Death Coven, the podcast. Uh, we come to your ears every other Thursday and, uh, yeah. Welcome. Hello, my name is Poppy.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Happy to have you here. I'm river. I got allergies and my cats are running am muck around me.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and I'm Sky. My cats also are pretty boogery, so.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, my cats have been exiled out of the room. Today, we each picked our own topic that we're interested in. We're gonna bring it to your ears. Uh, I think river's gonna go first, right? No, sky's gonna go first. Um, what are you gonna talk about today? Sky.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, as I've told you two in our group chat, I will be talking about a plant, more specifically a tree. But I am going to wait to reveal what kind of tree it is because it's got some other names, um, that I would like to reveal the, main common name revealed at the end, so

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Awesome. And then we'll have river up to bat. What are you talking about?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I wouldn't say this is a topic I'm necessarily interested in, but it is, um,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

a unnecessary evil.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's, it's topical to my life. Is germane the right word? Germane to my life and my sort of situation right now. What does germane mean? Cornal looks that up for me real

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I work with a guy named Jermaine.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

All I know is the, the Laur, Saint Jermaine Elderflower Laur.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

know. Germane Clement from

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Germane, relevant or pertinent to the matter at

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

right. I was trying to think of the word pertinent, but I could only think of the word germane for some reason.'cause I like that

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

This, the synonym.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm. I love a synonym. I love a,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Excellent. They're literate. They read. They're so smart.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Ooh. So today I am gonna be talking about spiritual burnout and fatigue because I'm in a little bit of a fatigue state. I'm feeling real low energy, and uh, it's my podcast and I could talk about whatever I want, and that's what I wanna talk about

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, poppy will be bringing a little bit of a scientific topic, um, at the end, but it still has a death tie in. it's a tie in to the cycle of life and death and rebirth, and it also has kind of adjacent ties to the underworld a little bit. so I'm gonna be talking about Whale Falls today.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I am so fucking excited. I love Whale Falls.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

insane.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I love looking at pictures of them. I love looking at all the little creatures that are just like picking the little meat off the bones.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, I was really excited about it because it is so, like, you know, the biodiversity of it all and it's super interesting from an ecological standpoint, but also the ocean is really scary. And reading about specifically like how deep the ocean is, just gives me the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

How far down those whale falls

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

oh, it makes my spine do that thing where it feels like it's being scooped out the back of me, you know?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It makes me think of, you know, um, in Lion King, the elephant graveyard. It's like that, but the aquatic version.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

like that, but deep underwater,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Deep, deep.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

anything could be down there.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So that's the plan. Uh, but before we get into that, we do have a little hypothetical game. Uh, listeners, if this is your first time with us, every episode near the beginning, we do a little hypothetical game. I put river and sky into mortal peril of some sort, and they have to figure out how to get out of it. Sometimes they're, sometimes they're lighter and they aren't on the cusp of death or. You know, threatened by, um, medieval disease

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

or politicians

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

or politicians. Yeah. Um, but today again, uh, we are back in mortal peril. I haven't put you guys, uh, I haven't put your lives on the lines recently. So

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Put me in

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

this is what we're doing

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

What is it?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. Okay. So you're lost in the wilderness again. Um, but this time it's okay because there are three different groups of animals that have offered to let you join them and become like part of their, part of their community, part of their family, essentially.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Animal gangs.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

animal gangs. And the catch is that they are all also at war with

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

See it was giving gang. I was like, it's giving Animal

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it's warring

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. Yeah. So you have to consider that, um, whichever gang you choose, you know, you're gonna be have, you have to fight against the other two. and these don't all necessarily live in the same ecosystem, but we're just gonna pretend that they do. Um, you have one, a troop of chimpanzees. Pretty good.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Interesting.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Two, obviously we gotta go pack a wolves and then three. An army of all rodents in the area. You've got mice, you've got squirrels, um, the little guys that live underground, you know, any kind of rodent, well, CAPY bears too. We'll throw them in there. They're rodents, right? I think they're,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think they're the largest rodent.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think so,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So before you even started, I thought of wolf.'cause I was like, well Wolf sounds

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It is gotta be a wolf has to be an option,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

but I feel like the underdog, if you get all of the rodents together at the same time, like they could climb up and like bite chimpanzees and wolves.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

but

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

they're also good at

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

fucking insane a chimpanzee is and how strong they are and how sharp their teeth are

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

But imagine a chimpanzee being completely covered in rodents. They really can't do much about

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

All rodents you said

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

All, rodents.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

not, not like all rodents in the world, but you know, it's it's a lot of

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

to be there.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

if it was just rats, like even if it, you just had a hoard of rats, like clawing and climbing all over other animals, like I think that, I don't want to pick the rodent option, but it seems the most logical to me.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You also, I mean, you have to consider, you have to live with these animals too. So say chimpanzees, you're gonna be in like. Tree nests that they built. Wolves, you might be living in like a cave or some kind of rock shelter.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

honestly, I would kind of love to live with wolves.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Rodents. They probably have like tunnels underground or something. So you're living in a little

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I don't think I can live in a little borough.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, I think I want to pick wolves,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

even though I don't think it's the most smart

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

think your faction would win?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I think living with chimpanzees would frighten me every second of every single day. Like even though they've accepted me and I'm one of them, I'd be like,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, they still fight each

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

any moment. Yeah. Like you could rip my throat out with your teeth at any moment.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

And my soft little body, I remember a funny joke, I smile. One of them takes it as like an aggression sign. I'm

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, you can never smile

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. I love smiling.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

At least wolves, you probably will build up some kind of like lasting companionship

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh, and I would love to just like be in a cuddle puddle

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and little wolfy cuddle puddle howl at the moon

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You'll have to become nocturnal though, right? Because they were mostly active at

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

think so.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I am already nocturnal, so that's okay

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It would be an easy

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

that would be hard for me. So I feel like. I feel like the chimpanzees would win in a fight, if I'm being

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

believe so.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Um, I mean, rodents might, if you had all three in like a clearing, you know, all at a standoff, it could go either. It depends on how many rodents there are,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

but I also feel like potentially there, there might be a truce in there. Like I could see them all being like, okay, let's not, let's not fight. Especially the chimps and the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

breaking dawn part two situation where they're like, this is gonna end badly for everybody. Let's call it off.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. I think if I picked the wolves and it say they had a truce, and it was just sort of a, I stay in my territory. You stay in your territory. And then with the occasional, like there's a rodent on our turf, like obviously a wolf is just gonna like fucking eat that rodent and kill it real quick. And I mean,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Then it becomes like a hatfield of McCoy situation.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

right? And I feel like the wolves are typically in a pack together,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

whereas I feel like one chimp might wander off. I don't know if they're necessarily always together. So because one chimp versus one wolf, it's really anybody's game. And I might be betting on the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

might have the upper hand. Yeah,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, wolves are re like real wolves are really big.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

But if the chimp gets on its back, you know, like again, we got twilight, eclipse,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

strength and like the mobility of a chimp has like an upper hand on a canine, you

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. But one chimp versus a pack of wolves. No.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

going down, chimp's getting eight quick.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So I'm thinking, I'm thinking I still wanna stick with the wolves'cause of, that'd probably be the more realistic situation. We're probably not gonna be in a clearing with all three animal gangs.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think I'm going chimp.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Okay.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I feel like that will give me the best. I do like to climb. Yeah. I mean, I, I think they also, if, as long as I'm able to know my place, I think like incorporate myself into the right rung of society, not challenge anybody, just kind of, you know, eat my fruit, eat some bugs, whatever.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You think you could groom

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

okay.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

do like picking

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think I'll have to learn to, I think I'll have to learn to if, if like, I wonder, I feel like wolves if you tried to leave, like if a helicopter comes down or whatever, or you have to get to an access point and get carried out, the wolves would be like, okay, yeah, you go live your life. The chimps would be pissed if you tried to leave.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think the rodents would also be pissed if you tried to leave.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I don't know that much about rodent show behavior. I know they have like strong bonds though.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. I don't know.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I don't think I want any of them to fight. That's my opinion in my hot take. I want

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

a peace and love in the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. Peace and love on planet earth. Why can't we all just get along?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wow. That's such an original

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

know. I thought. of it myself just now. Has anybody tried it? Has anybody given that a shot yet, or,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Um, I think they're usually cults and they end up imploding,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah, because it's usually just for sex.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And the money.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

okay.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

we got two wolves in a chimp. When are we gonna fight

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The two wolves in a chimp.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

two

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

rival gangs.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, that's the hypothetical for today. Thank you so

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

bad. That wasn't even that emotionally upsetting as it

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No, no. I, I mean, really the only peril is that you're lost in the wilderness and you might have to fight a wolf

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

And you might be surrounded by chimps at some

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

or you might be surrounded by a, like just a group of a hundred squirrels.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh, that's a nightmare. I don't like that. If I'm near more than three squirrels, I start to get nervous.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Squirrels are spies. Like the chimps are like warriors. The squirrels are spies, the wolves are,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They're like soldiers. I feel like

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

One time a squirrel dropped a banana on me and laughed at me. I ever tell you guys that

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

an entire banana or just like a

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

a whole unpeeled banana dropped

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

good bit. That's

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

the head, and then I heard it in one of its little squirrel friends chittering in the tree above me and I

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wait, this actually

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

this actually happened.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Excuse me.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I, it was in the house I grew up in. I was maybe like 12 or 13. I was like walking from my house to like the driveway to like the car or

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

and a hole. Unpeeled, unright banana, fell from a tree above me, hit me on the head. And then I look up and there are these two little squirrels running around and chittering and laughing at me. And I said, oh, this was premeditated.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They said, look at that hairless chimp. Get

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm gonna Get'em. And I said, first of all, where'd you get that banana from? Second of all, how dare you?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It is Giving old school Looney Tunes and Vil joke.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

so silly. I couldn't even be that mad.'cause I was like, this is funny as fuck. Honestly.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I feel like this is podcast content for 15 years in

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

In 15 years people are gonna love this.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I'm excited to hear about this tree.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I can't wait. What's the tree?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I have a tree tattoo.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You do?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, I am going to be talking to you today about sous occu, also known as the Witch Wagon tree, mountain Ash, or more commonly known as Rowan.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Hmm?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So I'll be talking to you about the Rowan tree.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

is that the odin tree?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No, but I do spoilers. I do get into a little bit of Norse mythology with it

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

As you do with trees.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

as you do with trees. Yeah. So I found a lovely little, Opening, if you will, on a website called woodland trust.org.uk. That I just thought would be a nice little, little bite to showcase this tree. And it says, bane of witches, diviner of the future, and producer of Jam. Rowan is an elegant tree with a mystical history. Its leaves and berries are a favorite for wildlife in woods and towns alike.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Delightful. Splendid.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

A little mystical magical tree.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

God. And it makes the jam.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

it's the bane of witches, but also you can use it for divination.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yes, of course, but it's old Celtic name translates to wizards trees. So that's fun. So what does this thing look like? Have either of you ever seen a rowing tree? Probably not.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

but I'm about to look it up. I, I've probably seen it, but I couldn't, I can only identify like three trees off the dome.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

was gonna say it has like a lot of branches, right.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Cute.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

of it's a tree.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

well, I don't believe that they're commonly found in North America, so that's why I'm like, you probably haven't seen it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Gorge

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I Google, Rowan, and just like, a bunch of fairy men popped up.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

like a character in,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I would definitely believe it's a fantasy romance name.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh, throne of glass?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. it is. Okay, so it is from the rosacea family. Did I say that correct?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, rose, rosacea. Rosacea. It's not rosacea.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

a skin

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, no.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I know that one.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Anyway, so it's from the Rose family,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

um, and even though it's called mountain Ash, it's not a proper ash tree. It just holds similar. It just kind of looks similar to an ash tree, but it biologically, scientifically is not related. it's overall shape and size. It's usually a small to medium sized tree. I saw some sources. I saw some sources say that even sometimes it could be

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Talk about the bane of witches. Am I right this fucking guy?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

dude.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You think mouth fell out of a coconut rowing tree?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh my

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You exist in the context of everything around you.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Sometimes it can be a shrub. That's all I'm trying to say. Sometimes it can

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

As in like really small.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, yeah. Um, but it can typically reach heights to about 15 to 30 feet, sometimes a bit taller. Um, it tends to have a graceful upright shape with an open rounded crown. it's not a massive spreading tree, so it's just kind of like a little

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's got thin branches.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The bark is generally smooth and silvery gray, especially when the tree is young. As it gets older, the bark can become a bit more texture, developing some cracks or slightly scaly patches. You might notice horizontal lines on the bark called lenti cells, which are like breathing pores for the tree.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. The scars remind us that the past is real. Editor. Cut that.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

We'll see. We'll see how I'm feeling that day.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, the leaves are compound, meaning each leaf is actually made up of several smaller leaflets arranged along a central stem. These leaflets are usually oval shaped with toothed edges, and they're usually nine to 15 of them per leaf. The overall leaf structure looks a bit like a feather in the spring and summer. The leaves are a dark green, but they put on a lovely show in the fall turning vibrant shades of orange and red before dropping.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Gorgeous.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, I can't really think of any North American trees with leaves like that.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't know.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I could quickly pull out my field guide to identifying North American trees,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, sort of fern like, you know, like little, and it's flowers. In late spring or early summer after the leaves have emerged, the Rowan produces clusters of small creamy white flowers. These flower clusters are often quite noticeable and sometimes have a slightly strong scent. So they're kind of like, um, is it Hydrea that I'm thinking of where they like clump together?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

The big, the big

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh, those are so pretty.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. They're not quite as big as

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

like hydrangeas.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

but they're, but they do clump together like that.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

What do they

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

pink ones too.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I have not smelled the flowers. Um,'cause when I getting ahead of myself a little bit, they are in Scotland and when I went there they were berries. And getting into the berries after the flowers are, what's the word I'm looking for?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Impregnated

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yes. After the flowers are impregnated,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

or bread.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah, they bloom their little fruits, the little identifiable berries. So this is probably the most recognizable feature of the Rowan in late summer and fall. It produces large showy clusters of bright red, orange, red berries. These berries are small and round and can be quite abundant, creating a beautiful splash of color. while, they're vital food source for many birds. They have a bitter taste and are generally not eaten raw by humans in large quantities. However, they are more palatable after being cooked and are sometimes used to make jams and jellies. Overall. Picture a relatively small, elegant tree with smooth grayish bark Feathery leaves that turn brilliant colors in autumn clusters of white flowers in late spring, and striking bunches of orange red berries in the fall. It's a tree that truly offers beauty throughout the seasons.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

it's a very dynamic, like depending on what point of the year you see it, it could look completely different.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I do love the descriptors of this tree of like, oh, the elegance. Oh, the beautiful show. It's putting on through the seasons. It's a demure.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I just love this tree, so I felt that I needed to do it justice.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The berry clusters are so big from a distance, it looks like an apple tree.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So if you would like to see this tree, this beautiful, elegant, gorgeous tree, where would you go looking for them? So they are native throughout the cool temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere. And like I said earlier, they're really abundant in the wild, especially in the highlands of Scotland. They love just like a cold high altitude place. But like I hinted at before, they also have deep roots in magic. Ooh,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

are they the bane of witches?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

so the Rowan tree has a deep and enduring association with magic, particularly in Celtic and Norse traditions. This connection stems from a variety of its characteristics and the roles it played in ancient beliefs. So protection against witchcraft and evil. Protection. Protection, protection, protection is its primary thing that it's known for magically. Uh, and this is widely believed that Rowan possessed potent protective powers against witchcraft, evil spirits, and negative enchantments. So we gotta talk about these berries, these red berries, and its pentagram that it bears. the bright red color of the berries was significant as red was often seen as a powerful deterrent against malevolent forces. The small five pointed star, a natural pentagram founded the blossom end of each berry was an ancient symbol of protection. And this natural occurrence reinforced the tree's protective reputation. So kind of like a blueberry, like you know, when you look at a blueberry, it's got like that little burst

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

of the berry.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. It's got a natural little five pointed star. If you pluck the berry off the tree.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I love it when fruit and nature just makes shapes like that. I am so delighted. Why?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Like the apple. When I covered the apple, the apple does that as well with the seeds if you cut it in half. But also we have Rowan wood charms. So people would craft amulets crosses and other protective charms from Rowan wood. These were often bound with red thread four added potency and hung above doorways in barns to protect livestock and carried for personal safety. Uh, there is an old rhyme that illustrates this belief. and in order to do the rhyme, I have to say it how they would've said it, not how we would say it today. A Rowan tree and red three make the witches tying their speed and time means lose. So it's basically saying. I'm using the wood of the Rowan tree in this red thread. Keep me safe from witches.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Halt.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Slow them down from their

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

off.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I love the image that you just like hold up an amulet and all of a sudden the witch is just like running in slow motion. It's like trying to get to you.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Um, and people would often plant Rowan near their homes. It was common practice to plant Rowan trees near houses to safeguard the inhabitants from bad luck and evil influences. In some regions, it was even considered taboo to cut down a Rowan tree unnecessarily as this could bring misfortune. And I saw many sources say specifically in Scotland, it was a no-no to cut down a Rowan There's also protection in sacred spaces. Rowans were often found growing near stone circles and ancient burial sites suggesting their role in protecting these spiritually significant locations and the spirits of the dead, and they have a connection to the other world in divination. The Rowan was also seen as a link between the mundane world and the other world. Okay. it was seen as a portal tree. In some neopagan traditions, the Rowan is considered a portal tree, an opening or threshold between worlds facilitating journeys and transitions. So it's sort of like, you know how sometimes you just see a tree and you're like, that's a fucking portal.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Like sometimes they arch over each other. Yeah. So they saw the Rowan tree and they were like, oh, if I like go over there, I'm gonna be transported.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Sucked into the other world.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm gonna get sucked by that tree.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. As far as divination and inspiration goes, the wood of the Rowan was sometimes used to carve ruins for divination. Ancient bards in Celtic traditions considered the Rowan, the tree of Bards believing. It brought the gift of inspiration and poetic ability, and it is known as a fairy tree due to its delicate white flowers and vibrant berries. The Rowan was often associated with fairies. It was believed that planting a Rowan near your home could bring the blessings and protection of the Faye. So it's got quite a lot going for it if I do say so myself. I just love this guy.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's just a good guy to have around.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's just a cute old guy.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. So now getting into some Norse mythology just a little bit. Th Thor's Salvation. It was known to save Thor. Uh, one legend tells of how the God Thor saved himself from a raging river in the underworld by grabbing onto a Rowan tree that bent over the water. Because of this, the Rowan was known as Thor's salvation. Um, there's also some myths suggest that the first woman was created from the Rowan tree highlighting its role in the creation of life. And like I said, previously, ruin carving. Rowan Wood was the prescribed material for carving ruin stones, which were believed to possess magical properties for divination and protection. So, in essence, the Rowan tree's, physical characteristics combined with its ability to thrive in seemingly inhospitable places, likely contributed to its aura of resilience and magical power in the eyes of the ancient peoples. Its vibrant berries, the natural pentagram on them, and its association with both protection and the mystical realms have cemented its place in folklore and magical traditions.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Good question. So if it's, if it was used for making grooms or, um, like people use the wood for other purposes, but they couldn't cut the trees down, how were they getting

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

they had to acquire it naturally through fallen branches.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

okay.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. So typically that's how they would get the wood, um, or if they, so they couldn't cut the tree down, but if there was like a big branch that was, You know how sometimes people will just like have large sections of a branch? Yeah. Like pruning. Yeah. So cutting the entire tree down was a no-no, but taking some wood, um, you know, asking if you can have, like, you know, asking the Rowan if you can obtain the wood or just finding fallen branches organically was the, the best way. Um, and it's also, it said cutting the Rowan down unnecessarily if it was necessary, I suppose, you know, that's one way. Trees also just fall sometimes.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So, I mean, there were ways to obtain the wood in a respectful and thoughtful way. Any other questions?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

your comment about the tree, maybe being from like where the first woman came from, coupled with the flowers being like so white and lush, and then turning into those bright red clusters of berries really reminded me of like the Garden of Eden and Eve losing innocence and whatnot. Corruption, maturation, maybe like discovering sexuality. Um, that's

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

your period and like going from Yeah, yeah, yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Going

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

coming into your own.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

mother.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Just becoming a woman. Yeah. I just love it. And when I was in Scotland, they were all over the place. We were driving down the, the roads, we were driving through the Highlands and I would see them all over the place and I just, I felt very drawn to them and I just loved to see'em.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Did you have any Rowan berries? Did you have any same wavelength?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

What do you mean?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Like, Did you ha, did

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

did you

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No? No.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh, boo.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Apparently they don't taste very good apparently, even in the jam form, like, it's like kind of

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

but Yeah. Like you don't really eat the, the, strawberries, but they're more palatable cooked, but even still, like, they're not like a delicious fruit to

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So it's like a survival thing.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

type of thing.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. I did read, um, a fantasy book. I wanna say it was the Fair Isle trilogy, where they used Rowan berries in that book as protection. They would like bead the bear, like dry the berries and bead them into like a little necklace or bracelet as a protection. From the Faye in that

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So I'm familiar a little bit with the Rowans history with magic through, through fantasy fiction, romance novels.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Hey, inspiration comes from many places.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. So, yeah, that's, that's all I got under Rowan.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Delightful.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The, uh, what did I call, what was it, what was its nickname that I really, the witch wagon tree?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. What does wiggin mean in like, Celtic vernacular?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't know. That's a, that's a great question. I just really liked the name that I didn't,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wiggin is an uneasy feeling or a sense of foreboding. Badness,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I see. Okay.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

so it gives the witches anxiety so they stay inside.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I mean, that's pretty effective protection where they're just

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Especially for

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

vibes. Yeah. I don't like that.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

anxiety. Runs deep in the witch community.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, I'm gonna hand a little Rowan branch over to River now.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Is it

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

branch for me. Is there SAP on it? Is it gonna get sticky?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't think it has sap,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

but during the time of year that we're recording, I think that the flowers are in bloom'cause it's springtime and the berries probably haven't quite emerged yet.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

a flowering branch.'cause I, it seems like you might need a beautiful,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Little bouquet.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

a beautiful little And I tuck it behind my ear.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Hold on. That might make them slow down though.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I start having a seizure.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You are a witch after all. Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I am a witch after all. And speaking of witches and anxiety is poppy so beautifully. Set up this little transition for me. What's up everybody? I'm about to bring the mood down.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Woo woo.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Woo. It's

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

This is like medicine. It's like a little,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. You get a, a yucky little Rowan berry and then I give you a hard truth, you know, something real sour. For something even more sour, So I get to talk about, uh, something that's been pretty pertinent to me. I would say for like the last month or so. This is not gonna be like super informative. I'm not going into like statistics or like research per se. I did do reading about it. But I'm not, this isn't like professional medical advice, if you will. This is just me yapping to my friends, and right now I'm going through sort of like on the whole holistically, it's not just spiritual, but I'm going through like a little bit of a burnout in all areas of my life right now. Past month has been a little bit crazy for me. Really great things have happened. Really shitty things have happened, and I am just very exhausted by them, and therefore my spiritual practice has taken a hit. Raise your hand if you're surprise, surprise. surprise. When things aren't going well, things start falling apart, but it's fine because everything ebbs and flows. And this is not, I'm not the first person to experience this. This is not the first time this has happened. This will not be the last time this has happened in my life. So what is spiritual burnout slash fear? Spiritual fatigue. Because they're used, they're not exactly the same thing. And there's also like spiritual anxiety where like the Venn diagrams are overlapping, but it's not, it's not a full circle quite yet. And a lot of the reading that I did predominantly is talking about spiritual fatigue and burnout through a predominantly Christian lens because it affects a lot of people that like work in churches and that kind of work because it's very,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

what's the word? How you say? It's very involved and it can be very, it's very saturated and there is that expectation to be constantly available and like constantly be like a spiritual mentor to those in, like need

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah, they're at a heightened state all the time.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

all of the time. And there's very little time for rest. It's actually like a really big problem in

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Even on the day of rest, that's the day that they're supposed to be at their most heightened.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. It's, it's just exhausting. But even if you're not Christian, if you have any kind of spiritual practice, spiritual burnout and fatigue can find you. That's just the way it goes. So a lot of like the key defining negative thoughts that accompany spiritual burnout and fatigue tend to relate to, am I doing enough, I need to be doing more. Am I making my life and my time count for my spiritual, spiritual practice slash God look at everybody else doing better and more than me, than like what I am doing. A lot of comparison, which is the root of all suffering. But we all know that by now. I hope. Um, and unfortunately a lot of this, at least in my opinion, which I feel is the correct opinion, but that's just'cause I'm a Taurus and I think I'm always right. A lot of it there seems to be a big correlation and overlap between and really any kind of burnout and the productivity slash grind set culture. We are especially now these days living in where like your worth is defined by how much productivity you are outputting and how much you are doing. And you work 37 hours a day and you sleep for 45 minutes and every single second of your day is optimized so that you can be doing as much as you possibly can. And that is exhausting. It's so tiring. So there's very little time for rest. You're trying to quote unquote, keep up so you don't fall behind. And just a little like tangent side note, because it pisses me off when I think about it in depth and it's like keeping up with who falling behind who it is not a race. Everybody's path is unique to their own circumstances and nobody's living my life and I'm not living anybody else's life. So who is this mystery person I'm trying to keep up with? Because it seems like everybody else is also keeping up with them.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The idealized version of yourself.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah, it's really like the Instagram influencers who are like curating certain aspects of their life without showing you like the realities of it all. You know how it goes, but that just pisses me off when I think about it too much. So if you take nothing else away from this, stop comparing yourself to other people. Um, at least in my experience, There is sort of like a universal connecting thread and theme of spiritual burnout. But everybody can also experience it differently. Some people experience it more severely and deeply than other people. Also, depending on like what your practice is and if you are like in involved in a community or involved in a church where like you have a lot of responsibilities and demands and it's not just like you and your two friends in a coven like PP poo-pooing for the most. Like if I was in a church as like an active working member, I would be freaking out all the time.'cause that's

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The pressure.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

The pressure to just constantly like be on and be at your best when like spirituality ebbs and flows. And even like priests will be like, yes, sometimes I feel more disconnected from God and like from everything. And that's, that's just how it goes.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

we're just humans. Right.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. And things just like pop up and life gets really stressful sometimes and really busy. And yeah, I'll get into that a little bit later. But at its core. Even though everyone can experience certain different things about it, spiritual fatigue or burnout is when rather than feeling fulfilled by your practice, you start feeling drained or overwhelmed by it. And it also seemed, at least from what I had read, it was mostly coming from a lot of like Christian websites. So take that with a grain of salt. But it seemed like a lot of the symptoms of spiritual burnout also coincide with symptoms of like, depression. So like the apathy, not feeling fulfillment or joy from things that used to bring you joy. changes in sleep and appetite and physical fatigue, symptoms like that. Which I think it makes sense from like a holistic perspective where like, yeah, if your life is really stressful and everything is sort of taking a hit, like yeah, you're not gonna be sleeping super well. Your appetite's gonna change, you're gonna be really tired. So just keep that in mind. Just always be on the lookout, you know?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That's like the whole body's thing that we've talked about before, about how like the physical body, the emotional body and the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

yeah. The

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

like all directly impact each other. Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Guess what? They're all connected. they all need work. They all need help,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Unfortunately. Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

unfortunately. And I. I also tend to focus on like the physical body and like the material body. I, if I'm being real, if I'm being really honest, I still don't do a very good job of that. So like my spiritual body, my emotional body, like you can only imagine how much I neglect them. Sometimes I'm not even taking care of the vessel that much.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think a lot of people try to make up for, um, like not being as strong in one area by really hyper fixating on, on another area. Like using, um, I don't know, using the physical body, for example, to distract you from the emotional bodies specifically.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I do, especially when I think about like Gym Bros a lot, where they're like, this is my church, this is my therapy. And I'm like, no, you're doing 50 pushups. When was the last time you cried? Quickly. But that's okay. Everybody's, Hey, they'll figure it out. I hope. I wish'em well. I was also just like stream of consciousness, like typing out my notes for the most part. And now I'm, I'm just like going out of order regurgitating them. So I'm like, what the fuck? Haven't I said yet?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well, this one's supposed to be a little like lower.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's true. Lower, not lower effort, lower energy for sure, because I do not have much energy right now, but that's okay. So now that we know what spiritual fatigue is, now that we have the baseline of like recognizing it, if it befalls us, how are we gonna combat this?'cause it sucks. How are we gonna get rid of this vile thing that's fallen on us?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Not ignoring it. I'm gonna assume that

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Step one. Yeah. You gotta recognize it and you gotta

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

that you

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

that it's here. The first step of combating your problem is admitting there's a problem. Yeah. Yep. And it's not fun and it feels bad. And I know it can feel like weakness and giving up and you're, you wanna push through and you're like, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm actually so strong and brave and tough and fine. No, you're not me

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't appreciate you mocking me.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm holding up like one of those little, like angled mirrors to all three of us. So we're all in the

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's'cause we're also big and strong and brave and

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm big and strong and tough and nothing, uh, nothing bad has ever happened to me and I can do anything I put my mind to,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

but

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I didn't even realize that I was burnt out until you brought up that you were gonna do this topic. And because of that, because I became a little bit more aware, I just lit a candle last night.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That's all I

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I haven't done that in, I have, well, that's not true. I did light my Saint Candles a few days ago.'cause I was like, I, I need my allies. I need you guys to give me some fucking juice. I haven't done a proper spelling months. I

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

We're all burnt out right now.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. We're just all burnt out and

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I still really haven't picked myself up since I moved in. It's been, well, actually the other night I left out a little wine offering for the Morgan,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Love

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

as like a peace of love. Thank you so much for

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

still here? Still rocking?

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah, there was, I wasn't asking for anything. I was just kind of like, Hey, I'm just kind of giving you a little gratitude, a little kiss on the forehead right now. Thank you for bearing with me. Yeah,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

And you gotta start slow because pushing through it and ignoring it makes it what? Say it with me now. Worse. That's right. That's fucking right. So that's step one. Uh, next crucial step from recovering from burnout sucks. And nobody likes to do it. We gotta rest. We gotta take it easy. We gotta reprioritize what we can feasibly do with our energy and our time. I hate doing it. I go into burnout, kicking and screaming every single time, even though I've been burnt out so many times in my life. You'd think I'd be better at it at this point, I'm not.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I will say that I fall into the trap actually of resting too much.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I like when I get burnt out, I overdo it on the rest. I oversleep. I take naps a lot. And I don't know if that maybe is just like my flavor of depression and neurodivergency and my physical body, but it's like a weird, I need to rest, but I'm sleeping and resting too much, but I'm not feeling rested, like I'm just tired and fatigued all the time. And it's like no matter how much sleep I get, I just don't feel better.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

yeah.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Help me with that. What do I do about that river?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm not a fucking doctor. Don't at me. And

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

some cases it,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

go ahead, please, please.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

just gonna say in some cases, like nobody wants to hear it, but exercise and fresh air and sunshine actually do make you feel better and do give you

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

to find that like thin razor's edge between like rest and effort where you're not pushing yourself too hard, pushing yourself past your limits consistently. And you're not hard. 180 bed rotting. There is that beautiful middle ground.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah, sometimes it is like, Hey, girly, like you're sleeping. Sure, but you're not going outside and you're not taking your iron pill.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

are iron deficient and not getting

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

sleeping in a sunbeam.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No. Or it's like you're resting, but, or you think you're resting, but really you are laying down, scrolling on your phone. Yeah. And it's not real rest.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. So quality rest is what we're talking about. We're not talking about, I'm gonna, I'm gonna veg out and watch shitty reality TV for eight hours because that's what I need. It's not what you need, I'm sorry to say it. It's not what you need. It's gonna make you feel worse. Probably. How do we combat? We're going back to the very base of the hierarchy of needs period, uh, pyramid. And we are working our way back up. We are taking as much responsibility off of our plates as we feasibly can. If it's irrelevant, if it's not urgent, it's not necessary, revisit it later. We're doing truly just like survival needs. And then when you start and it takes a long fucking time, which is the worst part and the most annoying part for me personally. It's not just, I got one good night of sleep and now I'm fucking back baby. It's, no, it takes weeks, if not months sometimes to like recover.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You gotta treat yourself like a little toddler.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

'cause it took weeks if not months, for you to get here. So you gotta do as much to feel okay. And every time I'm really mad and I'm really cranky and no, it always helps me feel better. A nap,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

a snack, and a nap.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

a snack, and a nap. And I wake up going, that was so crazy. Why was I like that 45 minutes ago? Who was that? That was weird to, so yeah, we got a step one and two stop, recognize, and then we got rest and recover. And I know it sucks. And when you're in burnout, any amount of effort, it feels insurmountable. And you do just wanna bed rot and you just wanna fucking like do nothing. I'm currently in that stage right now where I'd wanna do absolutely fucking nothing.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

it's cause there's no motivation. You know what I mean? You don't have any motivation to do

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I wrote up these notes yesterday because I was like, I don't wanna fuck, I don't even want, I'm in burnout. I don't wanna write about burnout right now. I'm living it. And then I was like, oh, I have to,'cause I have one day to do this Now there's urgency to it.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The procrastination trap.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it sucks, dude. Being neurodivergent sucks. Anyway, where was I? Yeah, the effort is hard reprioritizing how we're spending, what precious little energy we have. Also, I know this is another annoy, a lot of these points of recovery from burnout are like fucking annoying and cliche and you hear it all the time, but like, you have to eat good nourishing food. I'm sorry to say it. I know DoorDash is so accessible and it's so easy and hey, hey, I'm gonna hold your hand when I say this. I've been there when I was in the thick of like a bad burnout like four years ago in the pandemic, no less. I was door dashing at least once a day. Because it was so easy and so convenient and I literally could not figure out how to feed myself on my own. So I had to use DoorDash to eat.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

To give yourself some credit and other people who also fall into this. I will say I like do what you can. Like if you can't feed yourself unless you order DoorDash. Yeah. I'd rather Your fed is best as moms

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

is best. Yeah, like you do need to

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's, it's also more like when you start recovering a little bit of energy and you're like, I can, I have more energy to make maybe very simple dishes. They don't have to be super involved, but like you, it sucks and it's so annoying and it's like those like, oh, go on a walk. Mental health talks.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

A big part of recovering from burnout, I find is when you are faced with choices. It's better for you to make the more difficult choice, and that's sort of the path of recovery itself, is actively making the choice to do the more difficult thing versus the easier thing that will keep you in

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. Gotta build the muscles back up.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You have to build that tolerance and show yourself, oh, I actually can't do this. It doesn't have to be every day. But every now and then, like, oh, I can do hard things. It's actually okay. And I feel more accomplished now that I have done a more difficult thing.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. Making the choice to say, I actually have something in my fridge that I could make, as opposed to ordering DoorDash. Like that could be the small choice of, Even. if it's just something easy to

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah, like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Something so easy, so simple

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

As someone who has a really hard time eating fruits and vegetables. Especially when I am in the shits bag of baby carrots.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yep.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That's it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Whatever you like and is easy for you, do that. You don't have to explain yourself to anybody. You just have to take care of yourself. Really, truly. the next, the next most crucial step, arguably the most important step. Uh, you gotta give yourself grace as you're recovering and trying to get that energy back up. Because beating yourself up over feeling like you're not doing enough will make it. What? Say it with me now. Worse. That's right. Your spiritual practice is still gonna be there. You're not abandoning it. It's not, it's not mad at you. You're not in trouble. It's still gonna be there. You know, just'cause you need to take a break does not mean you're not a witch anymore. I promise. Uh, in my own experience, many a time whenever I go through cycles of burnout,'cause it happens many times per year. Uh, my spiritual allies and Dion ISIS are like begging me, grabbing me by the shoulders, telling me to like take a break and stop and that I'm doing too much and that I need to be resting. And I'm like, that's crazy'cause I'm not doing anything so I need to be doing more.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah, whenever I've gone through it, and then when I get back up on my feet and I do like a little reading check in to be like, Hey, I'm sorry you mad at me every single time. They're like, absolutely not.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

no, absolutely not. You actually needed to be doing that.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. They're like, Welcome back. Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. So happy You're still here. So happy you're taking time for yourself. And then they, sometimes I can only speak to my own personal experience. I get a little like flick on the forehead'cause it's like, you fucking dummy.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

at you. Shut up. But that's just me'cause I get a lot of tough love, which is what I need a lot of time. It's witchcraft is supposed to be fulfilling and sustainable and that looks different for everybody, especially with like chronic conditions and neurodivergence and chronic illness and just like what is tangibly going on in your life and like the things you are going through. I said it before, I'll say it again until I die. Very autistic, I have a very low capacity for being overwhelmed. My threshold is not very high. I go into burnout super easily and that it does make me feel bad and like I'm not doing enough a lot of the time because I, again, with the Instagram influencers, even in like the witchcraft community, it's like they're doing big, you're seeing that they're doing big spells all the time and all these like big workings and you're like, I haven't even lit a fucking candle in weeks. I'm not a witch. I'm not doing jack shit. And it's like, no, that's just a different person living a different life than you. It's actually fine.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I feel like, I mean, I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I feel like being just like a quote unquote normal person, like I like being a witch is not my job. I don't get paid for it. I don't have people reaching out to me for help or anything like that. I don't need to be doing spells all the time. Like there's no, there's no need for it. Like, I don't know, like I shouldn't feel bad about not doing spells all the time because like, what am I doing a spell for?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. Just to do it without like a reason. yeah. Which is not, it's again, that productivity grind set culture of like, go.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Have to create, have to

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

to create, have to be doing something to like prove that I deserve to be here. At least in my experience. So what's, what's little Old River doing to combat spiritual fatigue personally? What the fuck am I up to?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Tell us, Tell us, all about

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

plan? It's day one. I guess.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I I've been lightly trying for the past, truthfully, the past like two or three weeks to try to, first two weeks was just recognizing I'm in spiritual burnout. Third week was just accepting it and now I'm in the, okay, now we need to do something about this phase. I am trying and not doing super good at getting like quality sleep, as you guys know, I did fall asleep on my couch last night after work for several hours wearing my work clothes.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That's when you know you need it though, when you just immediately

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

exhausted, dude. I

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You wake up with a, what year is it?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I, all the lights in my apartment were on. It was five in the morning and I'm in my work clothes and I'm like, what happened to

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

oh yeah. I saw that message in the group chat at 5:00 AM.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I woke up and I was like, God damn it, I've done it again. So I need sleep is truly, again, it's so annoying to say, but like sleep really is the building block that everything else can get built on. It's the foundation. So that's step one. Step two, which I usually am pretty okay with, is like eating well, eating quality food because I have a fucked up little stomach. I have terrible IBS, so I have to be pretty careful about the things I eat and make good choices. Haven't had an impossible whopper from Burger King in quite some time and it's been very good for me. But the urge is always there. It's always in the back of my head barking like a dog.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I've been getting Taco Bell after work too

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I know. I didn't wanna say it. I didn't want to bring that

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No, I'm, I'm kind of at a phase where, you know, when you're kind of at a burnout and you just like accept your fate and you're just like, well, I'm in the shits, so we might as well drive this bitch into the ground. Yeah,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That black and white thinking.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I know. It sucks, dude.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

If I'm not perfect, why try?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

If I'm not perfect, I need to be the absolute worst version of myself and just self-destruct, which is not, Hey, that beautiful razor's edge, middle ground exists. And I, I want you to find it with us.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I do have a question. What, how are you. Getting better sleep. What does that look like for you? What are some steps that you're taking to try to do better? Sleep?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Truthfully, it's not playing the fun little game I like to play with myself where I lay down on my couch and I close my eyes and I tell myself I'm not falling asleep here. I'm just being very comfortable. I'm just resting for a moment before I get up and I get ready for bed and I go sleep in my bed. I need to stop playing that game with myself'cause I lose every time.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Now, what is wrong with sleeping on your couch?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Um, just the comfort of it. It's more comfortable for me to be in my bed. I also don't do my little sleep routine when I'm not, quote unquote falling asleep on my couch.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

well, I'm just, wondering if you could do your sleep routine right away and then if you end up falling asleep on the couch, like

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

if I did the sleep routine, I would feel less bad about falling asleep on my couch. But it's waking up with an oily face and unbred teeth wearing the clothes I wore all day at work where I'm like, I can't keep doing this. I

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

a

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

you at least take your glasses off?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Sometimes I do.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

sometimes I do.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

sometimes I do. Not all the time.'cause remember, I am not falling asleep. I'm just being comfortable. That's what I tell myself. I'm

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Was the TV on?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

No, but I was watching a YouTube video on my phone. I

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Okay.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yep. And

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

A really long,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

time. It's a 45 minute,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

or, or whatever the fuck you're into

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

was a a 45 minute YouTube video about a very obscure video game that nobody's heard of. Yeah. So there, and it just lulls me to sleep. But also getting back on my Michael Sealy sleep meditation grind set. Love Michael Sealy. I owe him my life. It's really just the sleep hygiene I have to get so much better at is step one. I did spend, uh, some time in nature a couple days ago at one of my favorite natural spots that I like to go to. That always replenishes me and nourishes me. Spending time outside, not for everybody, but for me personally, it does make me feel very good and very like fulfilled and refreshed. Uh, moving my body in gentle ways that feel good doing little stretches. Haven't stretched in weeks, but that's something I need to get better at. If I'm feeling up for it, maybe I'll pull one Oracle card on a special occasion, just as like a little daily, Hey, what do I need to hear today?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

What do I need to keep in mind today? It's very low effort, spiritual practices. I'm not do, I'm not trying to jump back in headfirst in the pool. I'm like dipping my toes in. Even my daily devotion to Dion, ISIS is spotty at best right now, and that makes me feel bad.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

What's that looking like?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it's so, I have, I made a little set of prayer beads, and I say a prayer to Dionysus, and then I go through each bead. There's 34 beads with like an epithet of his takes. Like 10 minutes does not take hardly any time at all. And I'll still be like, I'll do this later. Like, oh, I have something else I need to do. Or like, oh, I'm stinky. I need to take a shower. Like now I have to do laundry. And it just, it just falls by the wayside.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. And at a certain point it becomes a chore

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

yeah, it really does. Your spiritual practice when you're in burnout, it feels more like an obligation than like a gift and something that you enjoy doing, which sucks.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I've been trying to meditate and like actively connect and I've just gotten the message back. Um, you're forcing it, like stop trying to force it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. You

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Like you're just do, you're doing this out of obligation right now, not because You're

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

going through the motions of what you think you need to be doing when you need to be doing something completely different

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

happens to the best of us, brother, Also as a fun little preview and hopefully as a way to like pull myself out of spiritual burnout by the little scruff of my neck, like a kitten or a wet tissue. We've got another Saint Spotlight episode coming up in the future and reading about the Saints does help to inspire me personally and sort of like get me back into like the groove of being excited to like have my spiritual life be more active and be more like involved in it and just seeing like the beauty in the world around me.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Remembering that you can actually do things that you like to

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. Remembering that there is like joy and beauty in whimsy in the world if I know where to look for it and if I have eyes to see. Yeah,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and now that you're saying it, you're giving yourself a little bit of accountability.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

We love to see it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

am. Yep. So that's, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm personally doing, and just also trying to over and over again, give myself some grace and compassion, because beating myself up is not gonna make me feel any better. It's actually just going to make the situation worse. And I have a cute little quote from, I think it was a blog post called Spiritual Burnout, chronic Anxiety, and the Stress of Making Your Life Count For God by Joe Terrell. This is one of the Christian sources I was reading about spiritual burnout. It's a little bit like a medium length quote, I'll say it's not terribly long, but Joe Terrell says, you don't have to make your life count for God. You already count. You already matter, you're already loved. And in a weird twist, it's those Christians who accept this truth about their identity, who end up making a real difference in the world around them, be it their living room, neighborhood, boardroom, or some remote village overseas. You cannot freely give what you believe you had to earn for yourself. Once you accept your worth to God isn't dependent on what you do for God, you're free to live out the life God has uniquely prepared for you and all of its rich significance, humble, gratitude, and meaningful duty. The yoke is easy and the burden is light. So just have fun with it and focus on your own path, brother.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Every breath you

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

be fine. Every breath you take, is a gift, and that's truly all you need to focus on. So just have fun and be playful and be easy on yourself. That's all I got for you. I'm, I'm grabbing your shoulders and I'm shaking you and I'm saying it's okay. It be easy on yourself.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I'm giving you a big old hug

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm giving you a big wet kiss on the forehead when I say this.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

smacking you on the, on the butt with a little

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. Be easy on yourself. Don't piss me off.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. Pick a switch from the Rowan tree.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. And I'll lightly brush it against your cheeks and say, Hey, it's okay bud. So that's, yeah, that's my spiritual burnout takes for you.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I feel a little lighter now.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Good. Hey, I am glad it helped anybody.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I'm giving you a big hug through the computer screen.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Thank you.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Group hug.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

group hug. That's sweet. Thanks for listening. Also, just talking about it with like, people in your community or like if you have somebody you could consider a spiritual mentor, talk about your feelings. Dude,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it's really that simple and I know everybody hates to hear it. I hate to do it and I hate to hear it'cause I think I'm different. Talk about your feelings with your friends.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And if you can't write it down,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

As a part of your community, I love you.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I love you too.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Why would you say that to me in my tender vulnerable state? That's so fucked up of you. Oh my God. It really took me by surprise.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You just gotta marinate your, your little heart a little bit. Tenderize it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I love you both very much.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

This is just, this is like the get real corner of this episode, so, and I'm not, I'm not afraid to say it. I'll look you in your eyes and say, I love you, bitch. will stop loving you, bitch. And I've done it before. I love telling my friends I love them. I love throwing out and I love you. I don't think it's meaningless the more you say it. I think that you need to say it like people just in general need to say it more.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

You never know who needs to hear it.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. And it's not always romantic love. Like you can give love in so many

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

no. There is so much love in this world.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. It's important to remind people like you are important to me. I have and hold love for you. Are you gonna cry?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I might,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

this,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm fine. I'm cool. It's my allergies. It's fine.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

nice little peanut butter marshmallow fluff in the middle of our episode, sandwich

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

We talked about trees, we talked about feelings, and Now we get to talk about whale fall. Baby.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

why am I so nervous? Stop it. Stop it. Woo.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's just whales. Girl earl

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

just wa, it's just dead whales, girl and

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't know why. I think it's because I like, didn't really review my notes. I just kind of like slapped him on the page. So I have no idea what I'm about to say. But we're gonna, we're gonna get through it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I'm gonna find out together.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Whale Falls. yeah, so this topic is really interesting to me'cause it has a, a lot of different things that I'm interested in. Life, death, rebirth. Um, we've got some ecology. We've got some super interesting biodiversity tie-ins. let's get into it. Oh. Also, sky was a whale girl

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's right.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

in high school. I was obsessed with whales, and I wrote many papers on citation life,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. So you probably already know most of this

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and I have a whale key chain that I've had since high school.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

mm-hmm. That our, our friend who is now on Broadway gave you,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Fascinating.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Good for them.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Wow.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. Okay. So when living things die, our bodies are recycled back into the ecosystem. Um, we are eaten, our carbon is then breathed out by animals through carbon dioxide, or maybe it's peed out, you know, maybe it gets incorporated into them until they die. Uh, then the plants breathe them in. They use that to grow. They die return to the soil, and they supply nutrients for other things. So this is the cycle of life we give. We take, and this doesn't even consider the roles that microbes play, like tiny little bacteria and whatnot that help to break us down. So there's a lot going on when it comes to the exchange of, of energy, um, and the recycling that goes into every ecosystem. Whale Falls are really interesting because they create entire ecosystems just by themselves. Um, they create. Like a giant, well, not a giant. They create like a little oasis in the middle of the ocean floor that's basically like the ocean's equivalent of a desert, So before we get into whales, we have to talk about what the bottom of the ocean is like, which is this, this is the part that scares me.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I gotta shaver down my spine.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The ocean is scary. So today we're gonna be talking about the batho logic and the abyss logic zones, but I'll take you through all five zones of the ocean really quick. So up at the surface is the epilog zone. It's light, there's sunlight, there's plants and algae. It's warm. Um, this is where the majority of stuff lives. Then deeper than that, about 600 to 3,300 feet down, you have the meso logic and it's getting colder as you go deeper. near the bottom of the zone is where we start seeing bioluminescence because there's no sunlight or it's getting darker. Then we'll get to the pathologic zone, which is part of where we'll be living today. It's also known as the Midnight Zone because it is pitch black, constantly dark, and the temperature is constant at about 39 degrees Fahrenheit. So it's chilly. Below that, you have the Abyss Logic, which is 13,000 to 20,000 feet. So that's two and a half to four miles deep. Horrifying.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I don't like that.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't like. It's down there right now.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh, no, I don't like that.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, so in the abyssal logic, the temperature's just above freezing. It's also completely dark. Obviously no sunlight is getting down there. Past the meso pgic, almost no organisms exist. And the name Abyss Logic comes from the term abyss, which comes from the Greek abyss, meaning bottomless. Uh, and they used that word to talk about the underworld a lot, which is kind of where that tie in comes from. There's very little oxygen. most of the oxygen at this level comes from melting ice caps in polar regions. So like the water that's moving around up near the surface doesn't really circulate oxygen down to these depths. And then underneath that, the deepest. Zone. I know that's not even the deepest. This is below where

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

the

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

falls are. This is below the abyss. It's called the Hale Pologic. So this is 20,000 to 36,000 feet, which is four to almost seven miles underneath the surface. We're talking like the bottom of the Mariana Trench, even still down there. Life still exists. It's frigid. there are little single cell organisms called, foram. Ferra, which are also known as armored amoeba that kind of live around thermal vents and cold seeps and whatnot. So, deep down in the ocean, there's really not much. There's no light. Um, there are no plants, and we know life as we know it. Plants make up the base of our food chain. Right? So how do things exist down there? No photosynthesis. Um, there are sponges. We have those, uh, famous angler fish hagfish sharks sometimes get down to the, uh, bath logic zone. You got crustaceans and squid and bacteria. So what do all of these little guys eat? They eat something called marine snow. Have you heard of marine snow? It's kind of icky. It's kind of gross. so this is the name for the constantly raining detritus that is falling down toward the ocean floor from shallower zones. So this is like dead plankton, dead fish, poop, lots of poop, um, mucus discharge. So fish and, and other, marine organisms are constantly secreting mucus and it has to go somewhere so it falls down and little things eat it and just other stuff, other

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah,'cause like something, some things do live birth, like dolphins and stuff. I assume the amniotic fluid is like mucosal in some capacity.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Good protein.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yuck.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, they also have chemosynthetic bacteria. So those are a big part of the food chain. Instead of photosynthesizing like plants do where they use sunlight, they use, um, chemical off gasses from hydrothermal vents and cold seeps down at the bottom of the ocean. Uh, and both of those things are created from geological phenomena. hydrothermal vents are from volcanic activity and then cold seeps, which are more sustainable, like they last a really long time. Those are from where tectonic plates meet under the earth. Uh, these chemosynthetic bacteria use hydrogen sulfide, carbon monoxide, methane oxygen, and various nitrogenous chemicals to live, and then other things eat them and yada yada.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It sounds pretty stinky to me.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Sound. Yeah, sounds, smells like eggs.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Gross.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

it smells like up dog down there.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

not falling for that one. I,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

dammit.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

so yeah, so that's the scene. It's cold, it's pitch black, except for little pinpoint glows of bioluminescent light from organisms that are either outputting light to call to mates or they're trying to lure prey in. I thought that it would be quiet down there. It is not quiet. You would think at the bottom of the ocean it would be quiet, right? No, it's

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

there's not much down there, uh.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's loud. So even in the very deepest parts, you can still hear whale calls, um, you can hear boat motors, earthquakes too. So you, you hear like the shifting of the earth down there, and more. And that's all because sound travels faster in water than it does air. So here, you know, if. Like a car motor, for example, from seven miles away. You're not gonna hear that up on land, but under the water you will due to density and sound is just vibrations, you know, blah, blah, blah. So let's get into whales. The main event, uh, whales are citations. three different types of citations. You've got whales, you've got dolphins and porpoises. And dolphins are not porpoises. Porpoises are a different thing. whales, you, you've got blue whales, humpback baline, gray sperm killer whales are not whales, they're dolphins. Porpoises are different somehow from dolphins. I, I don't really know much, I guess. Phylogenetically, they're obviously, um, not dolphins. They're smaller. They have flat teeth instead of, uh, conical teeth, and they only live in the Pacific Ocean. All of these citations evolved from, I'm gonna get into, into evolution. I'm sorry, this is one of the rabbit holes. I fell down'cause whale evolution is hilarious to me.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Well,'cause they used to be like little deer, right?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh, I'm gonna send you a picture. So they evolved from something called R Tactiles, which Cows and Hippo, OMI and potus, whatever, also evolved from, so our r tactiles have an even number of toes and they're undulates. So they are hoed way, way back, like Sky said before they came back into the water.'cause you know, all wife crawled outta the water. Um, originally they looked like little deer.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And then about 50 million years ago, I'm gonna send you guys a picture. This is what they look like when they began transforming into a their amphibious form. so for the listeners, I know

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's a whale.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

that's a whale

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh my

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

for the listeners, they're looking right now at Paus, who was a dog. Si it looks like a dog or like a wolf dog size kind of doglike thing. Mostly ate fish. Um, at this point they still had ear structures for hearing in the air, um, because ear structures for aquatic animals are different. So that's kind of how we know when they made the transition. So this is. They look like this when they started living more in the water and then eventually they would transition to become obligatory aquatic dwellers.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Its skull kind of looks like a crocodile.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

that's what I was gonna, I was gonna mention that it does have a very aquatic looking skull. Like you can kind of almost see the whale in the skull already. eventually they became obligatory aquatic dwellers, like I was saying, which means they have to live in the water at all

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They turned into the whales we know today, around 34 million years ago. That's when they developed baline that, um, like fibrous kind of meshy tooth structure that lets them filter feed. But they didn't grow into the giant whales we know today until four and a half million years ago. So it was pretty recent from an evolutionary standpoint. And of course, we gotta talk about the blue whale. The blue whale is thought to be the largest animal that has ever existed on earth. So that includes all dinosaurs, all prehistoric aquatic creatures. They can be from 80 to 90 feet long and weigh up to 200 tons. Crazy big.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's a big bitch.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's a big bitch. Why are they so big? We don't really know. I mean, it could be due to something called tautological specialization, which means you're gonna get better at it. Because in order to keep existing, you have to be better, you know? So they developed a good hunting strategy, which let them get big. Being big requires more food, so they had to get bigger in order to be able to consume more food, et cetera, et cetera. And now they're fricking giant.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That being said, a couple years ago they did discover, um, possibly a bigger ancient whale called pea colossus found in Peru. Um, look up pea colossus. It's hilarious looking. It looks like a giant big old fatty fat whale with a tiny little head.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh my God.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Now what in the dang hell computer enhance? It looks like a slug.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. So that's possibly the biggest thing that's ever existed, and it's hilarious looking.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

kind of looks like a manatee and like a dolphin mated, and made some weird

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

silly little head.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. Okey dokie. So that's whales. How do whales die? Like all living things, whales have to die eventually, even though, um, blue whales can live a really long time. They can live up to 90 years. but whales can die of old age disease predation that depends on the species of whale. Um, they can be killed by sharks or killer whales. I think killer whales are really the only thing that can hunt blue whales, the biggest. Um, and they only go after like sick and really old and dying whales. the other probably most significant cause of death for whales, humans. Um, historically for ages, whales were hunted for meat, blubber, other parts of their body. Um, whale oil was a big thing. Amber Gre, which is like a waxy substance from their intestines that was used in perfume in Europe. Whale hunting began in the Middle Ages, but it's a, an ancient practice, you know,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

A lot of corsets were, um, boned with whale bone, I'm

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

with whale bones. That's crazy.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You gotta get skinny, you gotta look snatched,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Gotta kill that one. Gotta kill something big. So you can

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

whale is so skinny. I must have their bones.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So, whale hunting is illegal in most countries now, but it's still practiced in Japan, Iceland, and Norway. It's also practiced by, a lot of indigenous groups around the world, uh, north America, Russia, Australia, Indonesia, just to name a few. Um, but the amount that they hunt is insignificant compared to, you know, the wailing industry from the 18 hundreds. Yeah,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's really bad in Japan.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. humans also contribute to the death of whales unintentionally through climate change and pollution and also physical interference. Um, like they'll get entangled in nets, uh, or they'll literally just hit ships.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's like deer on the highway, but whales in the ocean. So after whales die, what happens? Occasionally they'll wash up on land. Uh, and when a whale washes up on land, we're kind of, we kind of don't really know what to do with it

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's too big.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

'cause they're really big. In 1970, a sperm whale washed up on an Oregon beach. Um, the Navy and the highway department were worried because if it was left alone and it. Started rotting, it would make the entire area, like smell really bad and destroy the beach basically for multiple years. So they thought about ways to get rid of it, and for some reason they decided they were gonna blow it up with a hundred pounds of dynamite.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Now I can see why they might have thought that was a good idea. Perhaps

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think they didn't think very far in advance because it just

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

that not destroy the beach for a

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I know, right? Uh, there was one chunk of blubber that was so big it was thrown half a mile away and crushed a car,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Could you imagine?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

if I got hit by a whale chunk, I'd be dead.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and you would be so stinky

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

be safe. If not dead, I'd be want to be dead because it's much like a skunk. I imagine I would never get that off.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh yeah. You gotta wash your hair like

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm oh. I'm shaving it. Every inch of my body's getting shaved.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

In 2004 in Tynan City in Taiwan, a sperm whale dyed and washed up and uh, or I don't know if it washed up that, or if it was beached and then died. But it died. They tried to load it onto a truck. With the goal of bringing it to a research facility, so it could be, autopsied or necropsy to find the cause of death and like be experimented on and whatnot. They got it on the truck. Uh, they got to the research facility. The research facility was like, no, we can't take it. Sorry.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

They didn't call ahead.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I don't know, dude. I don't know.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You just gonna show up with a whale,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

with a, with an entire whale on the back of a truck, I mean, that's probably why they were fucking turned away. Hey, we got this whale. Um, so they redirected to a wildlife preserve. Apparently you can dump them there and they decompose and like animals eat it and whatnot. But they had to drive through the city of Nan to get there. And by this point, due to decomposition, gases had built up in the

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Uh

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And when it was in the middle of the city, it exploded

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and it apparently rained blood and guts everywhere. There are a couple pictures online. Look at your own discretion because there is cartage, you know, but it's

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

don't mind if I do.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

just look up 2004 Tynan City Whale or Whale Explosion.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh no.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It is a sperm wear

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh no. And they just said we're just gonna go through the city center. It's fine.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

The picture of this moped is crazy.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Really funny.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. And the guy, just like with a hose buddy, what do you think that's gonna do? Are you trying to wash

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I am trying to get it to the sewer drain.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

But I found an article from NBC 2004 titled Var. She Blows, and this is a quote from that article, after the explosion, once it moved to a nearby nature preserve, so they still took it to the preserve. The male specimen, the largest whale ever recorded in Taiwan, drew the attention of locals because of its large penis measured at some five feet. The Taipei Times reported more than a hundred tynan city residents. Mostly men have reportedly gone to see the corpse to experience the size of its penis.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Men are so gay. I'm sorry, but men are so fucking gay.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Like where I'm not seeing its penis in these photos. You know what I mean?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

No,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

penis? No.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's just

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I think they are internal though, right? I don't wanna Google whale penis,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I guess maybe after it got there, when they examined it, they were like, and check for the penis. Yes.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I think I'm seeing like a, a large shot of the whale on its side and there is a suspicious looking appendage down where it's, it's genital region is looks pretty big.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It seems like it's internal and it kind of comes out.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Mm. I guess with all the gas buildup, everything's just sort of like getting pushed out. So even an internal penis is,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Five foot long penis. This is what all the fantasy girlies long for.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

that's as tall as me Almost. Hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

horrible. I'm sending you guys some horrible pictures.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Is it whale? Penis? I hope so.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's not of this penis.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Just a whale penis.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's like blue whale penis

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

this one's, this is a sperm whale and a killer whale, which is technically a dolphin, but you know.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Uh, yep.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yep. Up.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Horrible. You can cut this part out.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

slinging

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

leave it in. Honestly.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Oh

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's crazy.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Look at this man,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Which man,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

this man

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

put that thing down.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

put that thing back where it came from. More so help me. It does.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's like a lucky rabbit's foot

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm. He looks so chuffed.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I hope that man's a scientist or something. He's not. Just some pervert That's

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Who is digging around?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Dicking around.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Ha.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Must be Herme.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. I'll, I'll just, I'll cut him out. It's.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I go up to a little whiteboard and I, erase and then I write a zero and it says it's been this many days since penis has been brought up on the podcast. And I'm like, ah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So the majority of whales obviously don't beach or wash up on shore. That's a pretty rare, um, phenomenon. So what does happen to, to other whales when they die? Here?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

stay where they're supposed to.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So there's a really interesting video that I found called Whale Fall. Per parenthetical afterlife of a whale by Sweet Fern Productions. Um, it's fun. The music is really ominous. It, the, the whole thing actually has really ominous, like dark vibes. But the story of the four stages of a whale falls told visually with paper puppets and it's really artistically done, so you should go check that out, but it is a little bit creepy. Okay, what, what the heck is a whale fall? Finally, here we are. Whale falls. Whale falls are, the whale falls are defined as events when a whale dies and its corpse sinks to either the, pathologic or the abyss zones of the ocean where it's deep, dark, and cold. not every whale death is a whale fall. Um, when they sink in shallower water, they've just become food for scavengers and, um, they're eating more quickly so they don't have that opportunity to become an entire ecosystem on their own. Whale falls are massive food infusions into these deep sea marine ecosystems. One whale fall is the equivalent of 1000 years of marine snow. Whale falls are biodiversity hubs. Um, over 400 species of macro fauna have been found. So this doesn't include microbes, bacteria, um, anything like that. They last for an extremely long time because down there at the bottom of the ocean it's really cold and there's not a lot of oxygen and bacteria need warmth and oxygen for the most part to decompose organic matter. So anything that would be contributing to rot down there can't really function

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And there's not a whole lot of fishies or anything to like pick apart the corpse and stuff.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

well. We'll get to that there, there are a good amount that we'll go over. but Whale falls are really good examples of something called ecological succession, which is how an ecosystem changes over time, like going through stages as the environment around it changes. It's a national progression, kind of like when forests are recolonized after a forest fire, uh, or when islands are colonized for the first time, uh, after they've been created by volcanic activity. So it's like a kind of a blank canvas stuff comes in and grows and blooms and

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Nature inflation.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

anything could happen. It's a free market.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So pre-fall, a whale might die in an epilog zone, like right up near the surface. This is where they spend the most of their time. Um, maybe they live to old age, maybe they live to see 90 years old, weaken and then drown. So that would be

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's sad.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

pretty common way to go. Yeah. Um, they begin decomposing up at the surface, so it's still warm, there's still oxygen. The microbes inside of them produce gas, kind of like how we saw in Taiwan, which makes them float up to the surface and become available for scavengers like seabirds and sharks and whatnot to come in and eat'em. And eventually the gas is released either because, um, you know, due to animals eating it, or the corpse just becomes so waterlogged that it starts to sink down toward the bottom of the ocean. And if it sinks down into the pathologic or ABIs logic zones and comes to rest down on the ocean floor, then it becomes a whale fall. So there are four stages we're gonna go over. Stage one is the mobile scavenging phase. So this is the quickest stage at last. Um, the shortest amount of time it happens when there's still a lot of meat and blubber on the whale. This is when the relatively big boys come by and get their fill. So we got hag fish, which look kind of like eels, um, rat tail fish, sleeper sharks, bigger crustaceans like snow crabs, starfish squat lobsters. So they eat blubber meat in trails. Um, they can eat between 88 and 132 pounds per day, which is a lot. But there's, there's so much on a whale, so much fat, incredibly nourishing. Then the smaller guys come in, you've got snails, um, amphipods, which are really, really tiny crustaceans. They're less than 10 millimeters in size, so they'll come and they'll munch and nibble as well. So all of these scavengers, they're mobile. That's why we call them mobile scavengers. They come, they eat, then they go on their way. They're not rooted to the site like um, Cecile organisms would be. So it becomes kind of a gathering place. Like if you imagine, um, like a dead elephant on, on the Savannah, for example, and all of the animals kind of come and go. so for that reason, there's also a secondary source of food. You have all these little animals gathering around, um, which means they might become lunch as well for predators.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

High risk, high reward.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. So this phase lasts between, it can only last months or it can last up to a year and a half. near the end we have poly kite tea worms come in. They're also known as bristle worms. They look like aquatic millipedes and they're gonna play a really important role through the rest of the phases. So these guys have been around for 500 million years and are incredibly adaptable. They can live in arctic waters, they can live in tropical waters. Um, and this is why they survived all five mass extinction events.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

They look crazy. Wow. They're

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

What were they called again?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

um, poly kitt. It's P-O-L-Y-C-H-A-E-T-E, also bristle worm. You can

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah, I just looked up bristle worm. Wow. They're fuzzy.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They're kind of fun. They look like they have a good time.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I saw a picture of their mouth. I don't like that.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Look like a sea lamb prey. Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Most of the stuff down there have mouths like that though. Like the, um, hagfish for example, they got those like gross kind of sucker

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. Girls gotta eat.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Um, so now that the worms are on site, we move into phase two, which is the enrichment opportunist stage. so by this stage, most of the meat and the blubber and whatnot is gone. so little guys like the Pollock kit worm come in and they feed on the stuff, like all the leftover stuff that's kind of been kicked up and around, um, flung around during phase one. So all these nutrients are leaching out of the carcass, both into the water around it, and it's also mixing into the sediment. So it lets littler things come in and, and eat that way. Bivalves, like mollusks come and they start filter feeding bacteria grow over the remains, and the pictures are crazy. The bacteria forms like an entire thick carpet over the carcass. We also have those Pollock Kitt worms. They also form a thick mat clumped around the whale. So if you look at pictures of, um, whale falls, they look fuzzy and like they have a bunch of stringy stuff kind of coming off of them. And that's the bacteria and the pollock kitti worms. The poly kitti worms are about five centimeters long, and there can be up to 40,000 individuals per square meter. So it's dense, they're getting their fill. This stage can last months to five years After the enrichment opportunists get everything that they can out of the carcass. they leave. Now it's just bones. This stage, stage two had the most biodiversity with an average of 185 species at a time. Crazy. That's a lot, that's a

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

That's a lot in one area. That's a

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

one, in one carcass.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Now we move to phase three, the sulfa slic stage, also known as sulfur. Loving. The flesh is removed. Now we just have the bones. Specific poly, its of the genus osedax, which are also known as zombie worms come in. So they're called zombie worms because they eat bones. They start to eat the bones they attach to the surface and begin tunneling down, uh, which lets bacteria get into the center of the bones, to get at all of the fat that's left inside. and when bacteria break down organic matter without oxygen, they produce a lot of sulfide, as a byproduct. So this is called sulfur oxidation. So these are sulfur oxidizing microbes. All of the sulfur production lets microbes that eat sulfur, move in. These are called sulfur reducing microbes. So you have that kind of give and take there to one thing cannot exist without the other. And those bacteria, the original bacteria, can only exist because of these zombie worms, allowing them access to the middle of these bones. So there's a ton of interconnectedness that we see already. So these sulfur reducing microbes, they can either form mats that grow over the bones like we saw in phase two, or they can live inside of other organisms and help them with their metabolism, kind of how chloroplast live inside of plant cells. They used to be independent. Um, archaic kind of algae little guys, and then they moved inside of plant cells and now they have this really cool symbiotic relationship. these chemosynthetic bacteria can live in the guts or other parts of organisms that otherwise couldn't break down the sulfur, which is important because they live inside of those osedax zombie worms. They live in their root system, so they have roots that kind of tether to the bones I know. And so the bacteria inside are producing that sulfur. The bacteria in the roots take that sulfur and do that, um, sulfur reduction, which then allows the worm to kind of feed that way. The overall, I mean like generally we know that that's how it works. We're not entirely sure about the mechanisms or how they dissolve the bones in the first place. Um, but that's, that's kind of what's going on.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They're just sucking.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Just sucking this phase is the longest and can, can last from 50 to 100 years maybe more.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It takes a while to get through a bone man.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yeah. for a little worm. Yeah,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I feel like this phase is what we think of when we think of Whale falls, because obviously it's around for the longest, so this is probably the phase that they're in. That most whale falls are in at any given time, and they look so lonely. If you watch footage of like the Nautilus, for example, kind of like swimming around Whale Falls, it just looks so, so

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

just looks like a bones owns.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

there's so many guys down there just feasting. So that's happening for 50 to a hundred years until every last scrap of whatever can be eaten is gone. Then we move into the final stage, phase four, the reef stage. So all the sulfides gone. There's no more fat, it's just bare bones. And these leftover bones act after all the bacteria. The worms are gone. They're kind of bare. They act as a reef or sedentary organism, so like bivalves and sponges and whatnot, move in and attach to it, and then they filter feed there. Over time, it's colonized so much that it begins to just blend into the ocean floor, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Even the largest animals that have ever graced the earth ultimately end and are reduced to soil essentially. So whale falls are important. In total, uh, over 400 species of macro fauna have been found, um, around them. So it's truly an oasis in the desert of the deep ocean, crucial for the health of deep sea environments because it brings so many nutrients from the surface down to the bottom that otherwise would not be brought down and distributed through the community. So it's basically like a stimulus check for the deep sea.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

A 100 year stimulus check.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Here's, here's a little, here's some food

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Do some walking

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

from, the top trickle down economics over here. Uh, there's also an effect called the whale pump happening. So this is, uh, a type of carbon sequestration, which is when carbon is locked out of the environment. Kind of like back in episode 19 when we were talking about the Carboniferous era, all the trees that locked in all the carbon and then died. and the carbon was just not available to go back into the air. So depletion of CO2, that's kind of what whales do. So they're huge. They're made up of a ton of carbon. They sink down to the bottom of the ocean. So the carbon stays down there for around a thousand years. Um, and because like we said earlier, the. Stuff down there doesn't really mix back up to the top of the ocean. It can't be released back into the ecosystem, which means it's effectively reducing atmospheric carbon, depleting some small portion, but, you know, I'll take whatever we can get of the carbon dioxide that's currently contributing to global warming. Thank you Whales.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Thank you wells.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So the future, obviously there have been huge hits to whale populations over the past centuries, um, in the 20th century alone. So the 19 hundreds and estimated 3 million whales were killed

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Yikes,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

and they're very big. They take a very long time to mature. Um, they usually only have one puppet at a time, so that means replenishing their populations takes a really long time. blue whales are still currently endangered, so they're not doing great. But there is some good news. Um, there was a collaborative study in 2024, which I'll link in the sources that shows that bayline, humpback and gray whale populations are rapidly increasing right now. So

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They fucking,

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

let's fucking go.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

back.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

with their big five foot long penis.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah, partially because, um, whale hunting was outlawed in the eighties and you know. So there's hope. There's hope, and that's Whale Falls. Just a beautiful example of how we living things are constantly exchanging ourselves with the world around us all the time.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

In ways you don't even know

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I have a question

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

all the way, way, way, way down at that abysmal level.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Below,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Abysmal or the hot, the haal Pologic

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Either just when you're way, way, way down there, what is the floor made of?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

chalk.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Oh,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Talk.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

That's not what I thought you were gonna

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

and the calcium deposits,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

yeah. Let me see. so the, I was inspired, um, to do this topic, be because I read this book, life Everlasting by Burnt Heinrich, and in the chapter on Whale Falls, he actually talks about chalk. Let me

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

So in this context, like what is chalk? You know what I mean?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

what is chalk?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

what are chalk?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

oh yeah. So Shock is. If you look at it under the microscope, it turns out that it's not just a homogenous chemical structure, it's hundreds of thousands of tiny little microbial bodies compacted together. So it's basically like organic debris.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Okay. That's pretty much what I

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

a blackboard Chalk.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

It's just like a waste compounded waist that's just sort of clumped together. Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. No, blackboard chalk also is formed from, um, the corpses of marine microorganisms.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

You gotta get that calcium from somewhere.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. It's all, it's all recycled, man. So we literally do, or you know, at the end of the day, organic matter just turns back into the earth. Right.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wow.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I thought that was gonna be longer. I don't know how long I was talking for, but

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Uh, I don't know. I was just having fun learning.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

I still love whale in a way. It's kind of beautiful. A whale

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

oh yeah, absolutely.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

It's a cycle of life.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They're so useful

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

you're valuable.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

This book, um, I was thinking about doing like a topic or like a, an episode all based on this, it's really good life. Everlasting by Bet Heinrich. He's this guy that owns this huge property in Maine, and he's an ecologist and does a bunch of studies on like beetles and ravens and all of that. And he's really interested in scavengers and how they play a role in recycling, like the recycling of energy back into the ecosystem and the earth and whatnot. A beautiful book. You should read it.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I will add it to the list.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Gorgeous.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And do we have any final thoughts?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

I just feel smarter now.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Good. We've learned about Rowan, we've learned about, or we've deeply considered and talked about, uh, spiritual burnout. We've

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

at Whale

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

falls. Yeah.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

really are. The podcast with everything. Huh?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They're down there right now as you're listening to this.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

There's a whale fall down there that's been there for a hundred years right now,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Down at the bottom of the lonely ocean.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

but it's not lonely.'cause there's so many organisms down there getting what they need.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And it's probably so loud. It probably just sounds like constant earthquakes.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Deafening

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Also, the fact that whale calls can travel so far around a whale fall, you probably still hear distant whale calls.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

soon. It will be them.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

All right, well, uh, if you wanna contact us, wanna tell us what you do for spiritual burnout? Wanna tell us about your favorite trees? Have you ever had row and jam? Um, are you a whale on the bottom of the ocean?

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

How'd you get a computer?

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Uh, they're on their iPhone down there.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

They're on their iPad.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

They've

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

dolphin has a government issued iPhone.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah. Oh God. They would take over the world so fast.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Mm-hmm.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

But if that's you, You can email us at death coven pod@gmail.com, or you can reach out to us on Instagram, give us a follow, like DM, whatever, at death coven pod, and if there's nothing else, buy the power of three.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

And so it is.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And so it is,

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

And so it is

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Ooh.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Ooh.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wow.

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Ooh.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Wow.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Can't believe that whale exploded in the middle of,

papa-skye_1_04-27-2025_102045:

Yeah.

deep-sea-peepee--she-her-_1_04-27-2025_102045:

when I read that, I was like, excuse me.

tummy-ache-jones_1_04-27-2025_102306:

Why wouldn't they call beforehand?