Death Coven

Episode 36: The Lovers, The Chariot, and Strength

• Death Coven

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Welcome back dear listeners! If you need something to listen to while you hide from your family in the bathroom this Thanksgiving have we got the episode for you! It's another look at the fools journey through the major arcana, join us as River hops up on their little soapbox about the redemptive power of love, Poppy zooms at 65mph in a residential zone in the chariot, and finally Skye becomes ripped as all hell and tames a big cat with her beefy strength. Much like your Thanksgiving turkey this episode has some good meat, Bone Apple Teeth!


If you want to skip this week's hypothetical, zip over to 14:22

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review! Join our community of listeners as we explore the mysteries of the afterlife through the lens of witchcraft.

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Email - deathcovenpod@gmail.com

Instagram - @deathcovenpod

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I got to see the mountain goats last night.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. How was it? Did you just go on your

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No, Greg and I went together. and it was great. It was this cute little outdoor venue and the weather was perfect. It felt like fall. There was like, it was chilly and then you had the smell of leaves on the ground.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

mountain Goats is very fall

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and we got these Jamaican patties from this food truck and it was, they were so good. The whole thing was just so good. Only thing I didn't like was it was an hour and a half drive each way and going back I was so sleepy afterwards.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

because you gotta stay to the end

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And they always do at least one encore.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

at least. I

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. They finished the show last night with no children and John Darnell. Um, John came out for the last time and he was like, this one's for everybody out there who's going through a shitty divorce, but decided to come out today anyway.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

This one's for everyone who's really fucking mad at their

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Uh, everyone's singing along and yeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Was it the encore Like the final? The final encore song. Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

encore song. Yeah. Ugh. Such a good one. He ended the first quote real show with, this year, which is also like their big anthem,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

what a, what a mood shift from this year to no children. That's this extreme vibe shift

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Does Greg like the mountain goats.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He does, he's not a super fan like I am, but he does like the mountain goats. How can you not,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

How can you not? They got something for

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

John Darnell is

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

lowkey? I don't I don't like them.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

he's not a great singer, but his, he's a great

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

like them.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I think he's a good singer in the way that the singer for Modest Mouse is a good singer. I think they're all on par, and I love Modest

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

sound, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's kind of whiny to me and

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it's very nasally. It's because he, he can't hit the high notes, but he puts them in every single song.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But he really tries with all his

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He like yells them almost, which is fine. I'm not there for, for his voice. I'm there for

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He's one of those talk singer type guys.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

a real Johnny Cash

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

publishing a book of lyrics, which is pretty much just gonna be like a poetry book, I guess. And I need to read, he has like a, I think it's a horror novel that I wanted to read this fall.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Is Wolf and White Van not a horror

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

have you read it?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I wouldn't consider

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

told me about it, I was like, that sounds horrifying.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It is horrifying, but I would not classify it as horror,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

but I'm pretty sure, I think it's called Devil House. I'm pretty sure Devil House is actually

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Devil

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Devil House.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Ooh, I know. A spot takes you to the Devil House.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

What are we? 15 years old in a horror

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I know. A spot.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

necking in the basement of an abandoned, house man in a

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Necking. I haven't heard that term in years.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Do you have a hypothetical prepared for

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

well, I wanna do like an actual intro real quick.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I know, I was just asking. Okay.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Uh, Welcome to Death Coven. This is a podcast you're listening to. We are a death coven talking to you in your ears. Hello, my name is Poppy.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I am in your ears. I'm in your ears. I'm in your ears. I'm river. I'm just joking. I'm not in your ears.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And I am the centipede that crawls into your ears when you sleep at night. I'm sky.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

What was that thing's name again?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

What the fucking nightmare weaver? Some shit.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm. The Night Weaver, I think, I don't know. Go back and listen to our other Crypted, our second crypted

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

about it anymore.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Anyway, today we are going back to the tarot. Uh, we have a series that's ongoing. It's not super regular, but every once in a while, the three of us go over three cards from the major arcana. And today we are covering in order the lovers, the chariot and strength. So that's what we got going on. But before we get into that, would you guys like to do a little hypothetical?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yes,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I feel like this is the first one that I've actually prepared in a minute.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

handcrafted

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, handcrafted.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

when

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

looked back at my hypothetical notes and this one was all the way at the bottom, meaning I wrote it like at least nine months ago, so

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's had time to

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I don't even remember writing this, but we're gonna do it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Vintage.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's a vintage

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it could have had a baby by now.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Ew,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

True.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it's a virgin. We haven't even heard it

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Fair. It's celibate

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

okay, you are going to pick up some things. You're in the Walmart parking lot and you accidentally cut off a man driving.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

a nightmare already.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

he's an evil wizard. And he's pissed off. You pissed him off again

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I gotta stop running into this

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah, you need to be paying attention to your surroundings. I mean, you didn't mean to, but he still got cut off and he's gonna, he's gonna take it

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Was he the one who turned us into a squirrel on the weekends?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

turned you into a squirrel. He turns you into a blood sucking insect

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I gotta move outta this fucking town. I gotta get away from this guy.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

So this time he is cursing you to transform into an existing product that will sit on the shelf at Walmart. However, he says, if you can last 24 hours without being bought, so if nobody picks you up and takes you home with them and purchases you, I'll turn you back into a human. You just gotta last 24 hours, you're gonna be placed in the front position. On the shelf or you know, the bin, whatever. So you're near the top. So your objective is to choose what you're going to transform into, and you gotta pick something that you think nobody's gonna buy within the next 24

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Hmm mm I think I have one.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I think, and it might, it might, it might come back to bite me in the ass, but. I think I would pick one of Colleen Hoover's older novels to be, it's not Verity. It's not whatever. The one she just came out with. It's not one of the popular

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. It's like this. This is us

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's like November 9th or whatever.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

November

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

one about like a school shooting

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh shit. I didn't know she

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Or some shit like that. I don't know. I never read

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

listeners. How many times have we said the words school shooting on this podcast?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Somebody gave us a spreadsheet, somebody gave us a count

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

topical.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I haven't. I was, I went to food immediately, but now I'm remembering

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I thought food. Yeah. But I was like, people just be eating anything. People just buy shit and then they don't eat it and then they throw it away.'cause it's been in their freezer for like three months.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. I think I know what I'm gonna pick. I'm going to pick the worst car. Air freshener. The little tree. Like the tropical tree, you know what I mean? Like The The least popular one? Yeah. Not black ice, not the traditional green one. Not like your go-to fragrances that people are

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

in a bad way, one that gives you a headache when you open it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Exactly. It's got like coconut, like ones that people don't really want for their car very much. I'm gonna go with that one. Whatever the, I think it's orange that like orangey looking one, so that's what I'm gonna pick, because I feel like people probably aren't, especially this time of year we're recording this in fall, people aren't really in the vibe. I was also trying to think seasonally, like who. Like who's not gonna get what right now, based on season,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm. Similarly, while you were saying that I, my brain went to, like a shitty fishing lure, you know,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I thought about getting something from like the fishing or hunting section,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

A gun listeners, if you don't live in America, you can buy

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

people are fishing and hunting right now.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I thought that was like a spring and summer thing.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I think so

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. ooh, I'm gonna go to the bathing suit section then. I'll be an

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

not that time of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

itsy bitsy, teeny weeny, yellow poda bikini.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But since it is out of season, it's marked down and people buy shit for the next

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You have to be a really ugly

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I'll, oh yeah, I'll, I'll be real ugly there. There will be frills. I'll be missing one pad in the boob. You know, like one boob pad but not the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Maybe either make your size like way too small or way too big, like not an accessible size for majority of the population,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Okay, so secondary question. If you

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Fuck

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

bought, are you okay with the rest of your life now?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

no. cause I'm a shitty fucking Colleen Hoover

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

but I feel like you at least get to like sit on a shelf or occasionally, maybe you'll be read, you might be donated to a library at some point. That would be nice,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

maybe I can feel the touch of a human every now and

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

my pages get real sticky and like crumbs fall in me. Somebody sneezes on

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. They leave you in their bag. Oh God. The other day I had just bought a paperback and I put my water bottle in my bag without closing the lid accidentally, and it just got soaked and I was able

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It gets real

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But yeah, I felt really guilty.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Was it your book or a library book?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

was my book.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

ah, no harm, no foul.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I would not be happy if my scent would expire quite quickly and then I would be thrown out.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the dumpster.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I'd be rotting at the dump.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

my, my consciousness is just in this object forever until I like.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Degrade, I

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

or some shit.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

until they burn all the books. Um, and you get thrown in there

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it is by a woman.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It is by a woman and it's about a school shooting or incest or whatever. It's all she ever fucking writes about. And domestic violence.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I think I would be okay because I'd get to like go to the beach in the pool sometimes, but I, I feel like Walmart bathing suits also

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But then you'd be touching somebody's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I would be in circling a crotch.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You'd be up somebody's ass crack

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I probably get all Sandy too.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That would not be pleasant.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Sweaty. Maybe also,'cause it's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. And you know, like when Elastic gets older and it gets all crunchy,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

my bones

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It gets like

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

does it do that? How does it do that? Yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I don't know.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I have an old pair of yoga shorts that I've had for a really long time, and like the waistband, like crunches now when I stretch them and I'm like, how do you, your fabric,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Well, the, I think the elastic is plastic, right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Probably everything's plastic.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Even my blood is plastic at this point.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

We got microplastics. Yeah. My brain is just a perfect little Lego

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I'm a Barbie girl in every sense of the word.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. Are we satisfied with, uh, with our choices?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

happy about it, but I made my bed. Sometimes

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

pissing this guy off? Like what do you expect?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it's hard. First of all, when did he get his license? And also what car is he driving?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

When did he get his license?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Is that shit even expired?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Uh, well, he, he renews it on time, but he has been driving since the Model Ts came out

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Has he kept up to date with like new traffic laws? So is it even my fault that I cut him off or was he doing some shit that he shouldn't have been doing and I just

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I don't know, man. I wasn't there. I wasn't there. I didn't see it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Piss. This wizard's pissing me off. Now I'm saying

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I do feel fairly confident that no one would buy me,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I feel somewhat confident. No one would buy an old Colleen Hoover novel.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

could go 50 50.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That that one's the most likely, I think, out of all

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Is it not one of the popular ones? it's one of

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

still a book People, people who might be like, oh, I've heard of Colleen Hoover, or like a frequent reader of Colleen Hoover who maybe just didn't read that

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I guess if you're a frequent reader of calling Hoover, you need help. I'm

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

you could be like an Atkins diet cookbook or like South Beach Diet Cookbook or something like old and outdated. Who's buying that?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The Bible low key. Am I right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Uh, why do they sell em at Kroger? Why can't I go to my grocery store and buy a Bible?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Comment down below. If you know why we can buy a Bible at the grocery store.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

got answers, please tell me.'cause I'm very confused. And it's next to the Beanie Babies.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Huh. And Beanie Babies are fucked up these days. They're

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, they're fucking ugly.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

classic.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

they need Christ.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. They're big old demonic eyes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

They've been rebaptized.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

River, I need you to do like a Demonology episode, like through a

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I can try. I can do my darnedest. That's gonna take a while.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That's a broad, that's a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I feel like that That's like a riverside. Okay, so let's, let's get into the cards. So as a recap for you, our little fool he set out on his journey, he has learned what he's capable of from the magician. He sought the high priestess for wisdom and reinforced his connection to the divine. He's drawn power from the emperor and the empress. He's assimilated the spiritual work from those that came before him, studying tradition from the Raan, the Hierophant, whatever. Now he's ready to go out into the world. So who's he gonna meet next? And what's he gonna learn? Stay tuned. Find out

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it up so well.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Coven.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh, Garnet.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

sorry. Garnet. Garnet intermission. Yeah, he's being a real brat, but right now he's, uh, up on the tower,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the Tahu.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

of cleaning his leg.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the tower. Her me's in his tower right

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

we're all gonna be playing hot potato with. Who gets to cover the

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The Tower and the Devil are gonna

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

want it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

episode.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I'll, I'll do the devil. I'm cool with doing the devil. I don't wanna do the tower.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I will do the tower. I don't

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I'm sick of that guy. I,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okie dokey. Arty Chokey. Who's up first? It's River

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it's me,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Loverboy,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

lover Boy River. That's what they call me. Let me get my, my shit properly set up. I should have done this before.'cause I knew I was going first. Oopsy poopy. That's okay.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. I'm gonna blow my nose while you're doing this.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Go blow your nose, blow your load. For, for our fool's journey. I know how this integrates in like the broader scale of like the journey of the self and the person as you're navigating through this, this world and this path before you. But the lovers are two little interesting characters and they're kind of, they got their own thing going on, much like all of the major arcana. They've got their own thing

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

They're kissing. They're

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

They're not kissing, they're standing. No, not in the card, but maybe in real life they could be. They are naked. Anything could happen. They're both naked. There's a little penis. So the lovers, we'll start with the obvious, which is the imagery of it all. You look at it and you see two little naked folk. they're

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Can you hold your card up while you're describing it to me so I can have a, uh, yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. Hopefully Garnet doesn't knock it out of my hand.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That's okay. Okay. Please continue.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay, so we've got our two little lovers down here. Obviously with the, the Christian influence of the Rider Way tarot deck. They represent Adam and Eve and the story of Genesis. Ya know it, you love it. Uh, the woman is standing in front of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it has the snake that tempted her to eat the fruit coiled around it signifying the temptation of it all. The man is standing in front of the tree of life because Adam is like the beginning of creation. He was the first human. You know how it goes. We've got a big old angel above them and that is the Archangel Raphael. My boy love this guy and he is really considered like the angel of humanity. He loves humans. He loves getting involved in our affairs. He's mostly known as like the divine healer and the divine physician, but he's also an angel of matchmaking and happy meetings because he loves love. And that's part of why I started working with him in the first place about being real editor. Maybe cut that out. We'll see. But uh, there's a big old sun behind him signifying the joy and the happiness of love. You know, you get those warm fuzzies and in the background way in the back, there's a big old mountain in between the two figures. And that can symbolize the effort and the hard work it takes to maintain love because love takes work. And we'll get into that. So that's the card itself. That's what we've we're rocking with visually here. And the story of Genesis is a big one. The story of creation in the fall of humanity is, depending on which version of the Bible you pick up, is multiple hours long to read. I'm sorry, garnets rubbing hard against my mic right now,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

to me.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

baby, please. I do. I love you so much. But I'm working right now. I'm kind of busy with something. I think she settled down for a minute. So

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Do you wanna recap that?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. The story of Genesis as long as fuck, it takes several hours to read. It's literally the story of creation. Adam and Eve are the epitome of the lovers. And the story of Genesis is about choice. It's about free will, it's about temptation, consequences, suffering, and redemption. And that's what life is all about, baby.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Talk about a fool's

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Beautiful.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Talk about a fool's journey. You got it all in. The lovers is culturally, we all know the gist of it. Adam and Eve live in paradise. In the garden. There's no suffering. There's no death, there's no illness. They're not self-conscious. They're naked, they're pure, they're innocent. They are unsolid by sin and evil.'cause they don't know no better. They literally don't have that knowledge of good and evil yet, uh, they want for nothing. So long as they don't eat the fruit from this one specific tree. A snake appears one day to eve and the snake says, Hey, what if you ate this fruit? And Eve's like, well, God said if I ate it, I would die immediately. And the snake's like, uh, you're not gonna die. I promise you're not gonna die. Calm down. That sounds crazy. I can't believe God said that to you. But you're not gonna die. You're just gonna become like God with the knowledge of good and evil.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Correct me if I'm wrong. It wasn't even that God told her. God told Adam, who told

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

God told Adam. Adam told her, and she said, my husband said not to do that.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, and the snake was like, okay, but did God say that to you directly? Or

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Live a little, have a little fun with it. What if he's literally, the snake was like, what if he's lying?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And she's like, what

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

if he's secretly eating the fruit?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Live deliciously, eat this fruit. And so she does, and she gives a piece of fruit to Adam and she's like, Hey, I didn't fucking die. Eat this fruit. Let's see what's going on. God finds out they ate the fruit because now they're self-conscious that they're naked. They're covering themselves up with leaves because they have modesty now. So God finds out, cast them out of paradise and thus the fall of man and the inheritance of original sin begins. Now, afab people get periods and childbirth sucks really badly for us. What is it for? Men? Couldn't tell you.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

They lost a rib or whatever. I don't know. I guess

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He already lost one.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

but yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

to

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Men got an easy amab, people got an easy deal outta this anyway, where was I? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So choice is a big theme. Free will and making choices in the consequence of those choices are a big theme of. The Lover's card, but it's not just a story about endless suffering and the consequences of your actions and getting sent to hell or whatever. It's a card that reminds us that the redemptive power of love is really our soul purpose and redemption rarely comes without putting in the hard work, which is what the mountain's about in the car.'cause like I said before, real true love takes effort. Familial, romantic, platonic self-love. You have to put in the work to nurture that love and keep it fed and keep it growing. Uh, specifically the act of self emptying love, which was what Jesus was embodying in his time on earth, if you so believe that. And Jesus tried to teach us that in our human forms to help our souls. Expand beyond the ego. So self emptying love is selfless, non possessive and focused outwards in service to others. And this means, unfortunately, having love and compassion for people that you don't necessarily like and annoy the fuck out of you. Sometimes we've all got somebody in our lives that we kind of can't fucking stand, but we have to love and respect them as a person regardless because they are a human being and they deserve that care and respect even if we don't like them. I literally had a dream last night in the dream involving two of my coworkers, one of which I can't fucking stand, and one I'm friends with. And I said to my coworker that I'm friends with self emptying love is really hard when you can't fucking stand the person. And then I woke up cause that's unfortunately a big theme in my life right now. But we'll get into that later. So that's my little, my little spiel on self emptying love and why it's so beautiful and important and something I'm trying to work on. Back to Genesis as a metaphor, because the bible is a metaphor, it's an allegory, it's not a literal historical account. Hopefully we can all, if you're listening to this, hopefully we can all agree on that. But the metaphor is about humanity being separated from that perfect unity and that oneness with the divine. And it introduces us little humans to concepts of duality, opposite ideas right and wrong, good and evil things we've never had to contend with before and really think about'cause they didn't exist for us. But it also bestows us the gift of understanding the scope and responsibility of our actions and our choices. It offered us a chance to redeem both ourselves and others because if Adam and Eve had never left the garden, humanity never would've gained this new awareness. Everything would be quote unquote perfect all the time, but everything would stay exactly the same forever, and there would be no opportunity to grow and forgive and evolve as people, because challenge is what facilitates growth. Both, unfortunately. So now that we've got the biblical lore in a nutshell, and we've got the symbolism of our little lovers, uh, what does it mean when it shows up in your reading for you, obviously, if you're asking about a significant other or a potential romantic partner, it's a nice little sign. If you get it upright, it's a nice little sign. If you pull it reversed, maybe you need to think about whether or not you and your partner are on the, are on the same page. Maybe you need to make sure your values are aligned. Maybe there's a conflict going on that you need to resolve to get that harmony back in the relationship. Something to think on and stink on for me currently. Uh, harmony and trying to integrate that harmony into my life is a very big theme. Every day, I am constantly beat over the head by two, two twos, which is all about balance and harmony and duality and union. Every single day I'm getting reminded of this and I'm like, stop, stop. I get it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

adds up to six, which is the number of the Lover's card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That's right. And 6, 6, 6, 6 is not the mark of the devil in numerology or angel numbers or whatever it is, like the evolution of two, two twos where it's like the perfection and the harmony that you get after you integrate the balance. I love getting a little 6, 6, 6. I love seeing that. So for me, if I am to pull the lovers, which I have a couple times recently, it represents that harmony and unity within myself. Um, not constantly being at war with duality and black and white thinking, which I often am because I have a hard time having two things be true at once and coexisting in my brain. I need one thing to be right. but that's just a me problem. it's also for me about the blend and union of masculine and feminine energy because we've all got both of'em. They all live inside of us and we need to nurture and feed both of them to be a stable and whole and equalized human being. And it's also a reminder that I can love others best and give them grace and compassion when I remember to do it for myself as well, because I'm not always great at doing it internally. And that really bleeds out externally. I become a real bitch when I'm mean to myself, to everyone else around me

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I want you to hurt like I hurt.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Exa, I'm feeling shitty and I want to take it out on you because I don't want anyone to feel good when I'm feeling shitty again, that's a me problem working on it. So at its core, the Lover's Card is about harmony, union, and choice. Whether internal or external depends entirely on your own situation and circumstance and the reading and the question that you're currently doing. You're gonna be able to find the meaning for yourself better than I'm gonna be able to tell you upright. It can indicate strong romantic bonds, a successful partnership, internal union with the divine, or simply a reminder that love takes work. I know they're always, people are always like, love should be easy. Love should be effortless. Hey, it's not. Love takes fucking work. Love's inconvenience sometimes. And if you really love somebody, you gotta put in that work for it. Reversed, perhaps it could mean there's a conflict that needs to be addressed in a partnership, whether romantic or not. It could be friends. It could be just anyone you love in your life. Maybe you feel disconnected from yourself and your connection to the divine. Or maybe you just need a reminder to pour that love back into yourself and fill up your own cup and give yourself some love. So that's my, that's my spiel. That's my takeaway. Love is fucking hard, but love is really, I, James Baldwin said it best. I think that love is the only work worth doing on this bitch of an earth. I'm paraphrasing that last part. I love, love, I love the concept of love. I believe strongly in the redemptive powers of love being the most powerful force on earth. I love, love, romantic, platonic, familial. Love is magic. Love can change you so deeply at your core. I love it. I love this stuff. I love it. I'm a romantic. I'm a hopeless romantic and I'm a failed romantic, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

They're still single. Y'all, if y'all are interested out there,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And I think that's for good reason right now. I think I've, I've got some work to be doing. I'm not great in romantic situations, but my friends, my family, I love the shit

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Your cats,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

My cats, they are my family. I love the earth. I love people as a whole. I just think you know, all we need is Love We need. more love on this earth. Love is all you need.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Snaps.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And now The lovers have hopped in there. They're little, they're a little convertible now. They're taking a drive. Uh

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah. So we're, we're leaving the lovers behind. We have learned about the power of love. We've learned that actions have consequences. Perhaps we've made a choice. so we'll move on to card number seven, the chariot. What are we gonna do with that information, with that knowledge that we've gained? So, describing the chariot card, I'm not gonna go pick it up for you guys. If you want, you can Google it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That's okay. I'm on. I'm online right now. I can

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. but basically we've got a man and he is standing tall in a chariot, surprise, surprise. there is a square on his chest on each of his shoulders is a crescent moon. One is laughing, one is crying. He's holding a wand similar to the wand that the magician holds. Uh, the chariot itself on top, there's a canopy of stars. The chariot is made of stone, so it's solid on the front. There's a little red symbol, uh, with wings around it. that's the yoni and the lingam lingam those symbols, behind him. There's a body of water, a river, perhaps. and then beyond that, you've got a city. The main color of the card is kind of an orangey yellow, a little bit more yellow than orange. and then in front of the chariot pulling the chariot, we've got two sphinxes. One is black, one is white, and they're kind of looking in opposite directions. They're not face forward. So let's break it down. the color yellow is the main color of the card. That's enthusiasm, excitement, energy. Most of all. We've got that. Go, go, go. Power behind this guard. The man, he's got that square on his chest. The square is representative of the material world, being grounded the earth. The crescent moons on his shoulders laughing and crying. Crescent moons, first and foremost, they're a transitory state. It's like a symbol of transition, movement and change, the happiness and the sadness on each of his shoulders. So this man is carrying emotions on his body, um, which kinda makes sense. the sign of the card is cancer, so it's kind of an emotional card, which at first glance you wouldn't really think that'cause it's such a powerful card. Not saying cancers aren't powerful, but, you know, I, I tend to think of cancer as a kind of soft boys, but they are crabs and crabs. They got their armor,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I got that hard shell.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

got that scuttle to them. So he's got these emotions on his body, but he is still looking forward. So he. Considering emotion, he's letting it influence him, but he's not focused on them. That's not his main, main objective. Finally, he's standing up straight and tall. He ain't sitting down. He's not relaxing. He's not passive in any way.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He's on a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He's on a mission. He's not resting. He's currently in an active state. The chariot, like I said, it's carved from stone, so it is also really solid and stable and certain, but it's also really heavy because stone is heavy. Can you imagine a chariot made of stone, like how much weight

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

absolutely not. How are you pulling that thing?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And he's pretty beefy, I'm not gonna lie. It's kind of hot.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

he's a cutie.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

He is. I love his little like star crown. It's very cute.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

So, yeah, so the chariot's heavy. It's not an easy ride. It's not gonna be, you know, it's not made of bamboo. The canopy covered in stars above his head, represents his connectedness to the universe, above his head. You know, he's keeping the divine wisdom in mind, but similar to emotion. that's not his sole focus. He's not focused on connection to the divine. He's just letting it influence him, remembering that square in his chest. He's influenced by the stars, but his work is in the material world. this is card number seven. Seven is a prime number. I kept seeing everywhere that it's supposed to be mysterious, like seven is a mysterious number. I, which I did not know, but. Uh, they're the experts. I don't know

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

new every

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah, so it's a prime number. So the only way to get there is to multiply it by one. you know, it's not like eight, which is two times two times two. So if you wanna break it down, you have to break it down into its components, three and four. So the number three is like creativity, intuition, uh, and number four is practicality.'cause again, you have that kind of image of the square, like the stability, kind of going back to the emperor card, I think. so that kind of agrees with a lot of sources that I saw about the number seven, three plus four intuition plus practicality. Seven is. The seeker of truth number. So it's independent, curious, mysterious, its motives are not known to others, so it, holds everything kind of close to the chest. It's not outwardly super obvious. So maybe the charioteer himself is keeping his goals to himself. He's like, I am, I'm all, I need this brain, these feet. I know what I'm

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That 7, 7, 7 aspect, being mysterious makes sense for seven. Seven, seven, meaning good luck, you know,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

because what causes good luck.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's a mystery. It just happens.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

so the yoni and the lingam symbols on the front of the chariot. These are Hindu symbols that represent the female and the male aspects. So the yoni, as you probably know, is, uh, like a vulva or a womb. It's the feminine representing Shakti or the divine feminine. And then the lingam is a peepee. It's a pen.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Real penis heavy episode

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. and it represents shiva or the divine masculine. So in these symbols on the front of the chariot, you have seamless integration of masculine and feminine energy together, kind of like the lovers card. So this is indicating balance and harmony. the charioteer, he's ready to go. He's got this cocktail balanced just right. All of these elements.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

cock. Just kidding. There's no emphasis. It's perfectly balanced.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the, I mean, there's a man on the card, he's driving. The chariot, but the card is really balanced between, masculine and feminine. So it's not a masculine card because you need both to get shit done. Right. You can't just rely solely on

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

that action and receptiveness.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. The sphinxes, the sphinxes are one of the most interesting parts of the card. I think you've got, a black one and a white one. Sphinxes generally indicate intuition or wisdom. in the Charioteers case, maybe they represent instinct, One is black, one is white. You've got the yin and the, and the yang energy there. Just a side note, for some reason I always thought in yin and yang that the white was the feminine and the black was the masculine, but it's actually switched. Yin is black, is feminine. Yang is white and masculine.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I could see Yeah, like the, the void, like the, the not submission per se Yeah. But like just the, the, vastness of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The mystery of the, the mind.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

can't figure out women, am I right? I

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The lack of pigment. All pigment, you know?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And like thinking about, like yoga too, you've got yin and yang styles of yoga. Like yang is like your vinyasa high energy movement. Whereas yin yoga, I really love, if you haven't practiced yin yoga, try it out. It's very passive. You're doing, you're holding stretches and postures for a really long time, like three to five minutes usually. And its purpose is to, you know, get into

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

hurts sometimes when you're opening up those hips, that shit

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, because it's not,'cause Yang is all about like muscular action. You're making your muscles do something.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

through a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm. Whereas Yin is, is passive. You're getting into what holds everything together. That

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And you literally just have to sit with it and let it do what it does.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

gravity, you know, affect your body, allow making yourself. Uh, the most important part of Yin, at least in my opinion, is allowing yourself to relax, because that's the only way that it will work.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

start out holding and then eventually inch by inch, you start letting

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. If you haven't used a yoga bolster, listeners look into it because they're game changers. Like, if you don't have one, you can't, and you do have blocks, you can use blocks. can use pillows. If you roll up a, a softer pillow, that will work too in a pinch and it's cozy, but a bolster, ugh, it really bolsters you. Anyway, back to the sphinxes. So they're facing away from each other, like they're trying to pull the chariot in opposite directions. So there's some kind of opposing forces, maybe. Is it positivity, negativity? Is it masculine, feminine, selfishness and selflessness. What? Whatever it is, whatever you're interpreting it as being, they're opposing forces. But you need both sides of the coin in order to make progress. depending on the context, if you're doing a. Reading involving multiple people, especially if you're in a leadership role, they can represent two opposing personalities that you have to kind of wrangle, together. And even though they're pulling away from each other, the chariot tier is pulling them back to center, keeping them on track, herding cats, if you will. So this duality again, shows balance, potentially between masculine and feminine, but really any two opposing forces that are equal and opposite to each other. You need both to progress. Uh, so in the background you've got the city, the city ruled by the emperor perhaps, and then you have the river and, and the nature, uh, ruled by the emperor. So it also has, both of those sources of power. As well, the masculine feminine balance. The charioteer knows that he needs to grasp and harness both if he's going to be successful. You need to know what's behind you to anticipate what's coming in front of you. who you are influences your actions, right? But your actions in turn make you who you are. Interpretations upright. I saw in a couple places that if you were to add the magician and the emperor card together, you would get the chariot. So magician plus emperor equals chariot. You've got that directness and the control of the emperor, plus the manifestation power of the magician. Don't let your dreams just be dreams.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Just do it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

focus, determination. You're moving forward. You know what you want. everything that's happened on your journey up until this point has helped you figure out what it is you want, what goal it is you're working towards, and now it's time to make it happen. It has big success, energy, confidence, you know, you draw this card, maybe you're confident that if you put in the work, you're going to succeed. You just need

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I often see it as permission. Like if you were asking a question in a reading and the chariot comes up, it's like, yes, yes, yes. Go

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm. It's like, you know what you need to do now. You just need to do it,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

be successful. not to say that there will not be challenges because anything can come up on the road ahead of you. Uh, so you're gonna need that laser focus to overcome whatever, whatever's gonna come up in front of you on the road, but also to make sure you can keep those two opposing forces in check and in balance with each other. If you ask a yes or no question and you get the chariot upright, yes, but you better work bitch. Yes. But get ready to put in the effort because it's not just gonna happen for you.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's not just gonna be handed to you. You

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Uh, it can indicate travel much like the lover's card can indicate a relationship or something like that. The chariot can also indicate travel depending on your reading. I mean, he's literally driving. He's going somewhere in his chariot, so.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

he's on a girls trip.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Hey, should I save up to take this trip? You pull the chariot. Yes. Get her done. If you pull the chariot reversed can indicate blockages or perhaps distraction. Distraction from your goal is a big one. Like maybe you, uh, maybe something's challenging your focus or maybe you don't even realize that you have been distracted from your goal. I can't tell you how many times I've been working towards something kind of fall off on it and then realize at some point I just lost the plot. You know? And you just forget that you're working towards something, what it is you're even working toward. It can mean maybe you're focusing too much on the objective and not enough on the journey, uh, which. Back to last episode kind of reminded me of Morrow prosperity. we told his story about getting lost in the desert, and he talks about how as an athlete, he's always focusing on the objective, always focusing on his races. But when he became lost in the desert, his objective became staying alive. And through that, he drank in and found beauty in his surroundings. And that's important for us to do as well because it's not just the end goal that matters, but it's everything that we take in accomplish,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

on the way So this is a big control card, and if you pull it reversed, it might mean you are out of control. Maybe you've been overindulging and that's getting in the way of you meeting your goals. Or maybe it means you are holding on too tight, you're being overbearing, you're micromanaging. You need to loosen the reins a little bit. Like many reverse cards, it can mean, that you need to be doing inner work. So whatever you're chariot tearing toward, is actually inside of yourself. Some kind of internal work that needs you to remain driven and focused to accomplish. I usually get really excited when I see this card. Um,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You're a very go go go, type

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

a very, I'm very

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

very

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

type A, I am a control freak. Listeners, if you have been listening to all of our episodes, you probably know that about me by now. But if you don't, I'm a control freak. I'm Type A self-discipline focus. It usually comes very easy to me. So when I see the chariot, I automatically am like, oh, yeah, I can do that. That's fine. That's in my nature. However. When I pull the chariot, I feel like more often than not, I'm pulling it reversed, which to me is very much like you need to loosen the reins. you need to relinquish some of this control because if you try to control too much, you'll actually end up blocking yourself. You know, you need to let those forces work themselves out sometimes. Very rarely can you just brute force success. There are a lot of factors at play. You need to understand them and harness them. If you wanna bring them into balance, you need to consider that, divine wisdom that's above your head. You need to consider the power that you're drawing from behind you, that emperor empress card. Um, you need to remember your roots. Remember where you're coming from. So, yeah, so that's the, that's the chariot. Short and sweet. It's kind of, kind of, I mean there are a lot of components, but it's a pretty simple card when you get down to the brass tacks and that, I mean, self-discipline and control and going for it usually simple.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's the getting out of your own way part, which is really hard.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You know what song I think he's listening to on his little road trip? No, I think he's listening to Carry On Wayward Sun by

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm. Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

see that.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

What's that one song That was the anthem a couple years ago. I get knocked out, but I get up again.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh, the our coven Anthem.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Anthem. Yes,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Waba. Yes,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I think that's just the fool's anthem

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think that applies like across the board to all of the major arcana, especially some of the ones we're gonna be coming across soon.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the tower,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the Devil Strength perhaps. So I'll, I'll uh, hand over these reigns made from the branches of the Tree of Knowledge to Sky so she can tell us about card number eight.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yes. And what a beautiful card it is.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

this card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Look, that big cat

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. We love to see strength and love to see this beautiful woman trying to give her pet cat a pill. Um, cause that

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and the cat's

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

me. Yeah. Little dog is sticking out and she's like, I'm doing this for your betterment because you need your medicine. I, uh,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Harvey.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

but Okay. But for real, this card, there is a feminine figure. She is bent over closing the jaws of a lion and she is wearing a white dress with garlands of leaves and flowers around her head and her waist with an infinity symbol. Maple, can you hear her?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I only, I heard like one little

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Can you hear like her? The jingle of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

the toy. Okay, good. It's very distracting to me. Sorry,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Gotta wrangle

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

an infinity symbol above her head and a mountainous wooded landscape in the background. Generally speaking, that's what we got going on. and we are number eight across the board in numerology. I saw repeatedly that eight is associated with dedication and accomplishment. Those were sort of the main two aspects of the number eight. also I would be remiss without pointing out that number eight looks like an infinity symbol that is within this card, so that's obviously a tie in as well. Is it really?'cause it's so symmetrical

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Probably, I don't know, it's just always, always been

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

both in appearance and the, and the way that you can like divide it up. So this card is. Very, maybe it's not very obvious. It's obviously related to Leo because there is a lion, the astrological side, Leo, which Poppy and I both are, and therefore it's also related to the sun and the fire element. This card also has a lot of yellow, the sky, there's a lot of sky, and it is yellow, bright, fun, joyous. This is a very joyous card to see. Yes. Solar plexus. It doesn't necessarily read as fire. Fire. Like the aggressive.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

fire,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

light.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go ahead and break down some of the symbology in our card. first and foremost, the woman in the lion. They, I'm so sorry. I'm so distracted by Maple. Just like going to town. She is on our

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

said,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

tower.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

of strength.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

She's on our cat tower, like kicking the shit out of a jingly

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Aw.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and I'm just

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

She's learning. she's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

She's learning,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

testing her ability. S.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

she's in such a silly, precarious position. She was like on her back about to like roll off of the cat tower, ear done, year done. editor, cut all that out. She is Okay. The woman and the lion, the main aspects of this card, so the lion is going to symbolize wildness, raw power and aggression. That's sort of the fiery aspect of this card is through the lion It's a wild animal. He's king of. Is he king of the jungle? There's no

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's what they tell

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. There's jungle

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Maybe there is jungle in Africa. Is there,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Africa's big. I.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

oh, cut that out. Don't make me sound stupid. Anyway, so the lion. He's king of the animal kingdom. He's at the top of the food chain. He's basically emperor of the animal world. So he's bringing up, that more masculine to tie it into the themes of the other cards that we've talked about today. He's bringing the masculine energy to this card, whereas the woman, she's in white, she is purity, she is grace, she is gentle, she is symbolizing peace in general, intellect, patience and rationality. together with this masculine and feminine energy, they're sort of blending and symbolizing inner power. Right, so it's largely about taming your own will. cause we have both of these aspects within us and we sort of have to work with our inner turmoil of this wherever our masculine aggression, energy power comes up and not letting that override us to sort of tame that and vice versa if we find that we are being too subdued, too laid back to sort of find that fire within us and actually get things in motion like the, in the chariot card. So it's all about a balance. And also you can see in the card she is bent over looking down and he is bent up looking up. So that's also like the opposite sort of yin and yang representative in this card as well. Okay, now I am going to read what Mr. Arthur Edward wait has to say about this card himself because

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Author it, Edward,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Arthur Edward, wait, because his Christian ass has some shit that he loves to say. All righty. I am going to read in the pictorial key of the tarot what he's got to say about strength. So strength or fortitude. So I suppose that was another name for this card. He says, A woman over whose head their broods, the same symbol of life, which we have seen in the card of the magician. That's true. The magician also has that infinity symbol connecting him to the divine is closing the jaws of the lion. The only point in which this design differs from the conventional presentations is that her beneficial fortitude has already subdued the lion, which is being led by a chain of flowers. For reasons which satisfy myself, this card has been interchanged with that of justice, which is usually numbered eight. Yeah, so eight and 11, depending on the deck could either be strength or justice. As the variation carries nothing with it, which will signify to the reader, there is no cause for explanation. He's basically saying, obviously this makes sense why I changed it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Why are you asking? Get with it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Duh. Obviously it makes more sense here. Fortitude in one of its most exalted aspects is connected with the divine mystery of union. Throwing back to the lover's card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The virtue, of course, operates in all planes and hence draws on, all in its symbolism. It connects also with Ina Invita and with the strength which resides in contemplation. These higher meanings are however matters of inference, and I do not suggest that they are transparent on the surface of the card. They are intimated in a concealed manner by the chain of flowers, which signifies among many other things the sweet yolk and the light burden of divine law. When it has been taken into the heart of hearts, the card has nothing to do with self-confidence. In the ordinary sense, though this has been suggested, but it concerns the confidence of those whose strength is God, who have found their refuge in him. There is one aspect in which the lion signifies the passions, and she who is called strength, is the higher nature in its liberation. It has walked upon the as and the basal and has trodden down the lion and the dragon, traditionally. Nowadays when we see strength, we actually do think about self-confidence with this card. However, Mr. Arthur said, no, this is about God. So obviously the original intent with this card was likely that of a religious nature as we've seen, uh, be pure to fight, temptation of sin, et cetera. That's sort of what he's saying here. So the lion is sort of that masculine temptation of sin and pleasure.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

nature.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Correct? but I think that we can in fact use this card as a symbol for self-confidence contrary to Arthur Waite's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It can be two things.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

back to symbology of the card. The infinity symbol that we have discussed earlier. Uh, again, similar to the magician, connection to divinity, unlimited reserves of peace, intellect, patience and rationality. So pulling towards that higher power and all of those lovely feminine aspects. for this woman, we have the mountains. There's a lot of cards with mountains in the background. This mountain, unlike the Lover's card, is not a particularly large mountain, or perhaps it is, but it's very far away. so we're in a lush green field with a forest and a mountain in the background, and that's gonna give us a sense of security and safety. So it's open, but there's some borders for protection. So this lion feels comfortable with this woman. Because of her ORIC presence and their trust together, but also based on where they are as well, if that makes sense. and the last thing I want to point out on this card is the leaves. there is a certain maturity that comes with growth, and growth is required in order to learn how to be strong in every sense of the word. No one is automatically born strong. Strength is forged through experience and wisdom. So the presence of the leaves and flowers, to me signifies that this woman has put in the work to earn the power of patience and calm in order to get this line to trust entertainment. So that is what the leaves signify to me. upright, obviously strength means strength, but what does, you know, like, yeah, but specifically upright. It could mean overcoming obstacles, facing your fears, approaching with peace and gentleness. being guided to rely on rationality and having the maturity to use wisdom to handle a situation and not raw emotion. So finding the strength within yourself to sort of gather yourself and, and assess the situation before you act without reason. And reversed. Again, like we've said before, it could be assigned to point that energy inward to remember to give yourself strength. Remember that you have strength, you have wisdom to pull from, to find peace and rationality within yourself. or it could mean that you are out of whack. Maybe you need to rebalance yourself. Uh, you're maybe you're having some self-confidence issues, and that's sort of pointing that to your awareness. or maybe it could mean that you are letting your emotions override your intellect destructively, so maybe your lion is not particularly tamed. Or if the reading is about someone else, their lion is not particularly tamed, for example. It just depends on what the reading is about and what the question is. and I did want to talk about my other deck, my Wildwood deck that I use for the Morgan. Uh, but real quick, you did remind me Poppy about Yes. No, I would say upright is solid. Yes. Reversed, I would say is a soft No.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I would take it as a hard no personally, but that's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I would

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

think so?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

or like a, not yet.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I would, it, it's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I would take it as a, you are not ready. Don't try.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. It's, I I would say no, but it's not like a firm. Absolutely not. They're like, no,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Not right now.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. And I would say upright is a yes, but again, it's not really like a super, it's a firm. Yes. But it's not like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yes.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Correct. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

a yes, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Okay. So in the Wildwood Tarot, it is number 11 and it is symbolized by the Woodward card. So instead of a gentle feminine woman, we have a, a bit of a rugged looking man. He's got like a red beard and what looks like to be a lynx pelt on his head, he's holding a bloody spear. Um, he's also maybe got like a tasty little bev in his hand is like holding like a little cup. He's got like pelts and furs on. I know. And he's got a little Yeah, that is a Lynx. A Lynx is sitting, a live one is sitting next to him

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But the dopest

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and he's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

seen,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I know. And he's like looking out. He's looking very, he's very posed up. To be ready. And there's also a yeah, he's stands up and there's also an eagle flying in the sky. So I'm not gonna get into like the deep symbology and everything with this card. Um, but there is just one little paragraph in the book for the Wildwood tarot deck that I feel like will tie everything up together to describe everything. The classical tarot image of strength is a beautiful, mature woman controlling or holding a lion. The inherent balance of this image shows the calm beauty of patience and love, countering the unbridled emotions of anger and hate. The Woodward and ancient guardian of the Wildwood symbolizes the inner power that comes from facing fear and understanding the nature of darkness, the inner strength that comes from this awareness gives the individual the emotional body language. Yes. The emotional body language and the humility that says, I am not a victim. Treat me with respect. Do not mistake my passivity for weakness.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Love.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Shh, what I got for you for strength. That's where we are on the fool's journey. Sort of

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

We are in a duality

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. All three of these cards are heavy duality,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Harmony in Union.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. That masculine, feminine,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm. you gotta have both of'em.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah. Once you learn the lover's lesson, it's where I think that the duality sticks with you

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Then it puts you to several tests. It's like, did you get it? Do you actually understand it? Or are

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Because I mean, we've got temperance coming up, which is balance. We've got justice coming up, we've got balance again. So obviously we're always gonna be trying to maintain balance along the way from the lovers moving forward.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Once you eat that fruit and you learn about all these new things, you have to balance them forever, unfortunately.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And the devil, the lover's counter card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Gorgeous. I feel stronger already.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Jack built, ready?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I start beating the both of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No. Why are you always threatening?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It's'cause I'm so strong. It's because I'm a younger sibling. That's what we

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I'm an older sibling, which is why I identify so strongly with the chariot.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And I'm an only child, so we've, we've got all of the bases covered

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. It's a different kind of strength to be an only child.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Oh, okay. Well, anything else? Any final thoughts?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

There's one passage from a book I've been reading when Sky was talking about the lion and the animalistic and human natures, and I can't quite remember. But it was very, very topical and apropos to it,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

It would be nice if

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

know it now.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I'll be right back. Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Also on the Woodward card, this doesn't have to stay in, but he's got like a little, um. Like a toy. You see that Like he's got like a little, um,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

foot or something?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

no, it's a anthropomorphic figure, like a wolf human person or something. But it's just like his little, his little key chain, his little support system. I know it's supposed to be like deep and symbolic, but I'm like, that's his, that's his toy. that's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

toy.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I got the book listeners. Don't worry. I got the book co-host. Don't worry. I got the book. It's the Gnostic Gospel of St. Thomas Meditations on the mystical teachings, and it's verse seven. Jesus said, blessed is the lion, which becomes man when consumed by man. And cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man. Which this passage is also about like duality and your animalistic nature and overcoming that to become like what's how, how you say, not letting your egoic base instincts control you. So I was just reminded of that a lot when Sky was talking about the lion and the lady.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

fleshing that out.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I just couldn't remember exactly how it was phrased and I didn't wanna fuck it up, so I didn't wanna read it off the, I didn't wanna remember it off the dome.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Fairly simple, but also like deeply profound.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

yeah. yeah. Something to chew on.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Love is simple. Will is simple. Strength is simple.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

But They take work. All of them

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

There's, they're simple in concept, but they're actually very complicated. Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

There's a lot that goes

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

The idea is simple. The execution is difficult.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Multifaceted, different for everyone. Not the same across the board. You have to find your expression of it, and it's not, Yeah. it's not always the, there's not a correct way

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yes.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

all the time, but

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That's life baby.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You forge your own path with the information you have. It's our fool's journey on this bitch of an earth

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

that we love.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

that we love so much and we're so grateful.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah, on our Fool's journey, I think that all three of us kind of usually generally try to pick the card that's most applicable to each host, uh, especially at the time. So I feel like today, much like River was saying, the lovers very apt for where they're at, the lessons that they need to learn right now, chariot, the reverse chariot more specifically, poppy constantly needs to overcome that hurdle,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Um,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and I am, I feel like constantly chronically in a state of needing to remember to balance my inner strength and self-confidence because I have really deeply bad imposter syndrome and am worried that everyone hates me all the time. That's just sort of my, my, my issue. Even today at finishing our segment and wrapping up this episode, I'm like, did a bad job. Fucking

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No you didn't.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I feel like that just comes with being the age that the three of us are at. Like we're all right around 30, and that's when the imposter syndrome is like, I'm not a real adult. I'm not doing as well

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. I'm 30 years old, but I don't understand APRs still, and I never will stop asking me to

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I literally was thinking about how y'all did such a good job and sounded so eloquent, and I felt

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

thank you.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

stumbling over myself the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

feel like I was just kind of like,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

felt like I did a bad job too. Yeah. I spent like 30 minutes on my notes and I, looking back,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Mm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

much more that I could have said. But

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

If I can be so real. I started my notes this morning. I woke up early. I started them literally this morning.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

it

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

You did such a good job.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Thank you. It's also the, the consequence of we are putting this online, this isn't just a conversation between us that will have no evidence left over when it's done. Like the evidence lives forever, which is a big fear for me whenever we are recording and I'm like, I don't wanna sound stupid Forever. and people get to hear me sound stupid forever.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

in our journey, right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Hey, we're doing our best. And that's what's important.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Uh, five years down the line, we'll probably have deeper, maybe more nuanced understanding of all of these cards.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

God, I hope so. I'm hoping to have a more nuanced understanding of most things when I'm older. get to that. Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah. Yep.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

when I go back and listen to the episode, I'm like, I was not even that bad.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

No. You're like, that was actually pretty good. Pop off. Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And that's the same with like everything in life where you're looking back and you're like, oh,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

as bad as I

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

That wasn't that bad. I've just never done it before. I just haven't practiced it several times and perfected it several

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And if it was that bad, at least you learned something from

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

and you're better for it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

is a lesson

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

I,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Well, if you would like to tell us what these cards mean to you, you can do that by emailing us at Death Coven pod@gmail.com. Or you can find us on Instagram, like follow. Uh, what else do you do on Instagram? DM us comment at death coven pod. And with that, buy the power of three.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And so it is

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And so it is

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

And so it is, oh,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103716:

rah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

Kiss your lovers today if you've got'em. Give a big wet kiss for me

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_103716:

car really fast.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_103716:

really fast,