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Death Coven
Death Coven is a comedic spirituality podcast by three fabulous death witches: Skye, Poppy, and River. Every other Thursday, we yap about a myriad of topics (like hauntings, history, science, culture, and the occasional whale phallus) through the lens of magic and death energy.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review! Join our community of listeners as we explore the mysteries of the afterlife through the lens of witchcraft.
SOCIALS:
Email - deathcovenpod@gmail.com
Instagram - @deathcovenpod
Death Coven
Episode 51: The Hanged Man, Death, and Temperance
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Welcome back ghouls! join us for another step on the fools journey today as we get ourselves into some interesting positions, find another (pale) horse, and remember that at the end of the day its all about balance.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review! Join our community of listeners as we explore the mysteries of the afterlife through the lens of witchcraft.
SOCIALS:
Email - deathcovenpod@gmail.com
Instagram - @deathcovenpod
Well, I need to like hype myself up because I've been looking forward to today for a
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025know you have
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm all, I'm in my, in my, in my fee fees
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948go
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025cause I was originally gonna do my big topic today, and then you were like, I have something to tell you guys." And I was like, "Okay, here's the mic.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948can't wait to hear what it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Please. I'm so
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And I cannot wait
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025yeah, I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm, like, trying to, trying to guess what it is, but making myself not guess,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I've stopped trying to guess, uh, 'cause I'm like, it could be anything. I don't fucking know. We could just talk about Peter Steele again. I don't know. Maybe you have more to say?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Maybe I have more to say. Um, what was I gonna say? I've lost it now
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025You don't have more to say?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I don't have more to... I'll have more to say later.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Um, I'm excited for these hypotheticals that you've come up. I'm loving I'm loving everybody's creative juices flowing
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025so juicy. I've been really juicy, like, the past two weeks. I think since we took that long break, took, like, a month off, I'm, I'm fresh again. I'm coming back. I've got ideas,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Our summer vacation
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945A Mi Tambien, our
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Our May-cation. Yeah. So we're feeling good. Episode 51.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's crazy. How did y'all like episode 50?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025How did you like episode 50?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948How did you like it? Let us know if you want us to do more shit like that. That
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945the wizard. huh? The wizard,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025The wonderful wizard. The
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948my good friend, the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945PP means strength
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I'm so excited for that
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948The,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025come out
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948moment of clarity when we both were like, "PP means string"
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Iconic
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025And it's fitting that this, this episode 51, um, is coming right after that because today we are diving back into the Major Arcana. Today's another tarot episode, and we've got three big ones. Three big ones for you
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948This is the pivotal turning point in the fool's journey, I would say
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025feel like the past couple of episode, or the past couple tarot episodes we've been like, "And This is when it gets real." But I feel like this is really when it gets
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948is when it gets real.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945For real
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948This is when the fool stops being polite and starts getting real
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, so today we're going to be going over the Hanged Man. The Hanged Man. Men? Man? The Hanged Man.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Just one man.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He's just a guy. Uh, we'll be talking about the Death card. The Death card.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948The
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Death card.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948card?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025And then we'll wrap up. River's gonna tell us about Temperance, they're, they're really the one to do it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I've got some stuff to say about
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Good. That's why we're here.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948been with me a long time. No, no, we, we've squashed the beef.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay. In your studies, have you, you had an understanding and a heart-to-heart with Temperance? Okay
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, good old Tempe. Okay before we get into that, y'all wanna do a little hypothetical?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh. Oh, shit. Yeah that's right hello, I'm Pop- oh yeah, we didn't even say what the fuck is going on. hey.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948If you've gotten this far, you know what the fuck
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025hey. This is,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Hi, it's a podcast.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025podcast. This is the Death Coven podcast. Welcome, welcome. Uh, we are three witches. We're in a death coven. We all work with, work with, death deities. This podcast comes out every other Thursday. We love you, and, uh, yeah, that's about it. My name is Poppy
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And I'm Skye. We're a little bit rusty, 'cause like we were talking about before, we took a big break, even though you guys probably wouldn't notice because we still had episodes coming out. But we're a
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948forgot how to podcast over the past months.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025our
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. So we're, we're jumping back in, so please be patient with us if this is not our best work, and
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Please don't hate me and kill me for it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Especially since you probably just fin- if you're listening in order, you just came off of our best work so far, which is episode 50
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That was our magnum opus.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That was
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Or Magnum Condom.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm gonna be mentioning magnum
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948magnum opus
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, great. What was your... Wasn't magnum Cum Dong, what was that, your Discord name?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That used to be my Discord name because I was, um, that was
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Cause of your huge dong
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945cause when I graduated school, I was the,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Come lod
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945what's it called? Um, magnum cum laude, yeah. And it's like, "You're magnum cum dong." Yeah,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948My
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Your magnum dong?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948dean said that? Okay.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Shook her hand and
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I didn't know
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945was a title bestowed to me. What am I supposed to do?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948My cross to bear
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay. At the beginning of every episode, we play a hypothetical game, or we find ourselves in a little hypothetical situation. And basically, the, the goal is to just kinda warm up a little bit, get the juices flowing, talk about what we would hypothetically do in the situation. And today, since we are talking about three heavy hitters, I wanted to bring a little bit of feel-good energy to the chat, some levity. So I have two lists. I have one list for each of you, each containing nine wonderful things. Uh, so we'll go one at a time. I will give you two things and ask you to choose between them. The one that you don't choose, that one's eliminated. It's like a this or that kinda thing. The one you do choose moves on to the next round, and so on and so forth until... Yes, pick your favorite until we get to the end of the list, then we'll have your ultimate favorite feeling
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And you curated us individual
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I did. Well, I made a list of 18 things, and then I kinda sorted them. I was like, "This one's Viveros, this one's Sky. This one's Viveros, this one's Sky."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And this one's
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. But honestly, like all 18 of them could probably work for both of you. They're, you know, you're similar enough. Yeah. Okay, who wants to go first?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Preference.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'll go first then
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Sure, go first Ladies first.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025All right, Skye Hitting a series of green traffic lights in a row when you're already running late, or
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025the first sip of coffee in the morning
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh I'm gonna give it to the green light, and that's because it's rarer. Like, it does not happen as often, and therefore it's a little bit more satisfying. Like, when it hits, it hits just a little bit harder than that first sip of coffee, which I can rely on
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay. Green traffic lights or having someone you love tell you they're really proud of you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Ooh, is it even a question?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I know it's gotta be the Pride
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, okay. Um, having someone you love tell you they're really proud of you versus slipping into a hot Epsom salt bath
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh. Every
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I know.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945"That one, that one."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I supposed to choose between my favorites?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'ma, I'ma give it to the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025So the bath. gotta be the bath
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945a bath for me
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025slipping into a hot Epsom salt bath or eating freshly picked berries warmed by the sun with a little scoop of ice cream on the side
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ooh, that's delicious. However, I'm
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Gotta keep the bath. Yeah, I figured.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, bath or waking up in the middle of the night and thinking your alarm is going to go off soon, only to realize you still have hours and hours of sleep left
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ooh, similar feeling to the bath. I feel like
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Relief.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025like then you sink back down into the into the blankies
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm gonna give it to the bath again still because it's a little bit longer of a feeling. That feeling only lasts
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025An instant.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948marinate in the bath
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Literally, yeah. Okay, bath or the first bite of a delicious meal you've been craving when you're really hungry?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ooh, last night Michael made us steaks
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I saw. He sent me pictures of it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I, I texted him while I was getting off of work, and I was like, I could really go for a steak tonight." And, and I offered, I was like, "Should we go out somewhere or, you know, whatever?" And he said, "I'll, I'll make it at home." And
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, mate, I got you. I got you, girl. He told me he made lemon... Or he was like, "I'm gonna make lemon mint asparagus. Fuck, I forgot the mint."
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, he forgot the mint."
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I'm like,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That's okay. The--
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025just lemon asparagus it's fine."
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945But anyway, um, I basically had that moment last night that with the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And how was it? And was it everything?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945was exquisite. However, yet again, I still like the bath
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Gotta be the bath, yeah. I figured when I put that in there, I was like, "This
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948The bath's gonna
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025This might sweep it."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, um, hot bath or purchasing a new book and then getting it to get cozy and read it the same day,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Gotta still give it to the bath. I just am such a bath bitch.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You're a
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I know you are. I know you are
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I, I struggle to think of something that might beat
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, that
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, I considered putting it on River's list, but then I was like, "But it's gonna sweep for
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, it's gonna be bath no matter what
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Um, bath or the first real day of spring after a long, miserable winter
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945No, it's gotta be, It's gotta be
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It's gotta be the bath. Okay, bath is your ultimate winner. Slipping into a hot Epsom salt bath.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948takes it.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Bath
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945candle, turn the lights out, light an incense stick, put a little
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948a little meditation playing.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Okay, River.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Falling asleep in the backseat of a car late at night on the drive home
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You know I love falling asleep in the backseat of a car
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Or sliding into completely fresh, clean bedsheets after a long day
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Had to give it to the bedsheets.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Bed
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945can get more comfortable that way
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay. Bed sheets or finding a crisp $20 bill that you had forgotten about somewhere in, you know, like your pants or, like, your
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I love
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025gonna go with the money?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945They're
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I, 'cause I'm like, "Ooh, that's free treat money right there
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025That's absolutely...
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Um, okay. Crisp 20 or the smell of the air immediately after it rains
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Petrichor
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'll keep it with the 20, the Crisp 20.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Crisp 20. Okay
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945The greed.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Mm. Your greed sickens me
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Crisp 20 or making a baby laugh?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh making a baby laugh. I love a baby's giggle. They're the hardest audience in the world
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025They really are...
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Just, uh, Rachel's baby Oh my God, his
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Rachel's baby is a hard audience.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948a, he's a hard one to make laugh.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He is constantly just looking so skeptical at all times. Um, okay, making a baby laugh or laying your head in a loved one's lap while they play with your hair
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Head and lap.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Head in lap. Okay. Head in lap or your kitty is sleeping on your lap and they kinda look up at you a little bit and, like, do a little slow blink and then go back to sleep and nestle down in there
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948They're the same. They're the same thing to me.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's just in one scenario, I'm the kitty.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Uh, I'm gonna go with, uh, the slope link cat on my lap. Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay. Slow blink or realizing that someone you're talking to that you like genuinely really likes you, like as a person
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's gotta be That one.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025That
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's a great that's a great euphoric feeling
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm. Okay. Somebody really likes you or finding a new favorite movie you know you're gonna watch over and over and over again
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ooh, you know they
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948This is so hard. I love movie. I love film I think I gotta give it To the movies, 'cause when you find a movie to fixate on for a week and you're like, "This is gonna change me as a person," you're like,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Like Alien versus Predator
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. And Dinner in America, yeah, that changed me as a person fundamentally
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, well that is your ultimate, your ultimate feeling. Carry that
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948who could see it coming? Who's surprised?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You know us so well. Typical
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, look at that. Now we're all nice and relaxed, and we can, we can carry that little kernel of light with us throughout these hard topics that we've got coming up
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I have a question for River. River had there been one more round where it was movie or the bath what would you have chosen? Because I know that you said the bath would've been difficult for you too
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948that would've been difficult. Honestly
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025And it's just the first moment when you slip in. It's not like the entirety of the bath
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I have honestly not been taking baths super often for the past couple months, so they've released their grasp on me a little bit they don't hit quite the same. i don't need them the way i used to
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Shall I hand it off to the hanged woman?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm. And I already know my baton's gonna have to be that fucking rope.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Fuck you. Go on ahead. Oh,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Ugh.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948hold on a second. I got some here for you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, is that your
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025play rope?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. You know, I just like to keep it around just in case.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Everybody pull your fidgets
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Everybody
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025need to get one of them Kneados.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, man.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I like to play with my belly while we're
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That's basically a Nee Doh
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's basically, Yeah.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I do, I like, I like squish my folds a little
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948When you've got a little apron belly like me, you can just sort of like cradle it like a
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Go under it.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I got a, I've got a couple cute little rolls that they fit in my palm. It's real nice.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Boobs.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025now.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Come on, get up there. Go on.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Let me get up on my, um...
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948My
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945it called? Like, it's like, what's, what's it called when you, when you're about to be hanged?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I don't
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025that stage thingy.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah Do
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Anyway, I'm up there saying
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025have any f- last words?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Poppy and I are both just holding the handle waiting, wearing black hoods.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025But we tie her little feet up instead of her neck
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948This is just to
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945been real. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just an inversion table The Hanged Man. Number 12. We're coming hot. Who was number 11? Right behind, let's see.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's a great question.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Justice?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945have it, here. Yes, we're coming hot off of Justice, which I also did And it makes sense because well, I guess I'll get into it here he is. I've pulled him out of my deck. Hi.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Very
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948He's having a great time
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945yeah, like always, we are going based off of the Rider-Waite-Smith version just as our general thing. Uh, sorry, my brain is not working today again, we're
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948got you.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, this is the warm-up
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I know this is the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Nobody listens to these anyway. It's fine
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Say that
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025We have a couple listeners that have listened to every single tarot episode though. So there, there's like four of them out there.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, I, I mean, overall, I hope that you're not coming here for the end-all be-all, uh, for your tarot information. But Hanged Man number 12 coming off of Justice, yada, yada, yada. What is this guy's deal? How did he get
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948he up there?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Why is he up there?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's a real
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Why is his leg like that?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948"Yep, that's me. I bet you're wondering how I got in this position"
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Exactly. So what was the website that I was using? tarotheritage.com was where I
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Not heard of that one
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, it's a pretty good one. They have a lot of informations about, like, the history of tarot and previous decks and whatnot. So I was like, "What is this guy's deal?" And a lot of my information from that website. So we had to go back to 15th century Italy to understand this guy's deal, as you do, 'cause there's, like, the, what is it? Like, the Visconti-Sforza deck and all that is from, like, that era. Like, the gold-plated, like, ones, decks that were made for royalty and dukes and whatnot. This guy originally had a different name. He's had a few different names, but a lot of them are very similar. But he used to be called the traitor
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Ah, kind of like the hermit. the hermit was the traitor at one point too
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. So nowadays, I feel like the hanged man has a pretty positive association with it. At least I personally have a fairly positive or if, you know, neutral association
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948but I'm also like, "Oh, I do need to, like, change how I'm
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It's a very clear message
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It's a very clear message, but you know, this little fella in this character in the photo who's hanging by his little footsie, um, I guess I should describe the card, I guess, for anyone who is literally like, "I've never seen the Hanged Man. What are you talking about? What's tarot?" Okay, so we've got a tree that's sort of in the form of a cross loosely with leaves coming off of it. There is a little guy who is hanging upside down by-- He is tied to this cross by a rope around his right ankle. He has his hands behind his back. We don't know whether his hands are bound or not, and his left leg is crossed behind his right leg, sort of making like the four position. He's wearing red little leggings.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948night.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes, red leggings, yellow little ballet flats, and a blue tunic. He has blonde hair that's dangling down. He has a halo around his head, and he has a very neutral or serene look upon his face. So that is the description of this card. Now-
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948a little bit like inverted crucifix, if I'm being honest.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, that's interesting that you bring that up,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948interesting
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945because of,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Who's that? Peter?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I don't know.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025St- St.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I don't remember which one got inverted. He might've been. I remember one of them was, I just don't know if it was him or not. Sky looks suspicious. Oh,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I just don't know who St. Pe- I don't know anything about St. Peter.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Nah, he's chill. He's cool. He was an apostle. He got, he got fucked up
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945We'll be talking about a different apostle in a moment So this posture that he has, a man being hung upside down, is loosely based off of shame paintings that they would do in Italy. So for traitors, people who, you know, went against the church or whoever was in charge at the time, if they couldn't be caught and served justice upon them, then what they would do is they would commission an artist to paint a likeness of that person hanging in this position up on the wall with their crimes that they have committed. So basically like a public... Like I'm basically... It's a call-out post, but they're basically, it's a threat. Like, "We will, we will hang you for real,"
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And it's a public shame ritual that they would do, So that's why he looked like that, because they...
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948What are his
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945What are his crimes? Being a silly little traitor, stealing, uh, gold and whatnot. okay, number 12. I read some things on this site that they said that the number 12 could be assumed to be associated with Judas because of the 12 apostles and the trai- he was the traitor
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945you know? And so, you know, that's why they picked the number 12. Um, and then also, what was his name? I know his last name is Sforza, the guy who was, like, in the Sforza deck. Apparently, he was, like, the Duke of Milan. Um, apparently he was, he went against the church 12 times. I don't know why
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_11394812 times.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948He said all right, one more, but this is your last
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025That's all you get."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Fool me 11 times,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Shame on me. Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948me 12 times, shame on me. I should know better
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. So apparently the number 12 has deep associations with traitors in general throughout history, and so the number 12 was picked on purpose for this card. I did not really go too deep into numerology this time, 'cause it's like you could be like, "12 is one plus two, which is three, and it's divisible
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I feel like numerology you can get way too in the weeds with it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945card in general, I was not expecting there to be so much deep, deep l- uh, like there are so many little rabbit holes I could've dove deep into, but I'm just kind of skimming the surface to let you know what the rabbit holes might be. And if you're interested, go.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And do further research. So
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945go to tarotheritage.com and read all of the great thing. There are so many dudes that were mentioned, all,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948dudes
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945yeah, with like Italian and French names, and there were lots of French words. And I was like, "I simply am not going to be doing that today." Pretty cool about the shame paintings, though. Gotta bring that
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And they were... Yeah, it, I would, that was the bulk of the history around that, about who was doing shame paintings, famous artists who were known for them, and, but they were hung by their ankle, like they were drawn the same way as the hanged man
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm. Hurts like a bitch.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Hurts like a bitch. That's a weak
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I've been doing a lot of ankle hangs recently
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Some meanings of the old tarot of the traitor, you know, when it was the traitor and people were playing the actual card game People thought that it was, it's, it was symbolic of betrayal because it was the traitor, this is betrayal, and people really only cared about the fact that it was a trump card and its number and what it could... Like, its purpose in the game, basically. So I feel like 12, kind of in the middle for a trump card, like probably pretty good but not great in the card game. Like, I don't really know how to play the original game 'cause it's like you're kind of in the middle. You're also, like, a symbol of betrayal. Like, probably did not wanna pull this card just in the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948you could use it to like, fuck somebody over to win, but then you'd just be the hanga da man yourself
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945some people speculated that the fact that he's got a serene look on his face, like he's not writhing around in pain or looking like he is... Like, it looks voluntary. It looks like he got himself into this situation, or at best, he is at least okay with it. Some people speculate that because it was originally based on the shame paintings, people didn't really wanna look at a gross, nasty guy hanging, and so maybe they just made it-- they cleaned it up and made it a little bit. more, little bit more PG for the game maybe, which I think is probably the case. But, uh, you know how philosophers like to jerk each other off and, like, have a dick-measuring contest, so, and then they're like, "No, I think this is what it means." So that was a lot of what I was reading about dudes going back and forth and being like, "Ugh." Anyway, the, the one of
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948how it all sounds
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945the w- That's how, exactly how it all sounds. So, you know, one of those dudes, don't remember which one, speculated that the serenity on his face could be a symbol of passively accepting God's will instead of writhing in pain. So, like I said, it's symbolic of him saying, "I am in this situation, and, you know, everything is God's will, and I am releasing myself to God's will and accepting." You can take the fact that because he's hanging, he's in between the earth and the heavens. He is not planted on the ground. He is upside down. Perspective shift is the huge thing with the hanged man, and because he has the halo, you know, God, divine universe, understanding, la, la, la. France did not do shame paintings, but they did love to play this silly little card game. So their association of the why the person was hanging was lost. So they were playing this game and just being like, "I don't know, this guy's hanging." And then the evolution of the card game kind of lost the name traitor and simply became the hanged man. He's just a man that's hanging. He's no longer the traitor, he just is hanging. We don't know why he's there. He could be falsely accused. he could be a martyr. We don't know what's going on.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Maybe he was just trying to hang some Christmas lights and
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948got tangled. up.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He got tang- He got done
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948found himself in a very silly situation
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And the silliest thing that I didn't even write it down, but the silliest one that I saw in my opinion was that this one other dude speculated, he was like, "Well, maybe peop- maybe it's actually upside down," and, like, he, um, it, the rope was actually a snake, and he... it's supposed to represent prudence or something, and he was like, oh, trying to avoid a snake on his one foot.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And going, "Ew, yuck. Get away."
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, and I'm like, "I don't think that's it,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I don't think
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He's about to do a little jig
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945don't think that was it."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948No, I don't think that's it. Also, his hair is literally up.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. I,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He's just got big
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948gravity. I get he just put a lot of hair gel in that day
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, so le pendu is the hanged man. It just means hanged man. Um, that is the only French word I'll be saying today I just wrote bullet points and I'm just reading them off to you. I'm sorry. They're not very, they're not strung together very well. Hanged Man could mean it's a transcendent detachment kind of picking back up with that whole God thing, you know, put, giving
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025That whole God
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948The
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945that whole God thing, the God of it all, you know? But there is no doubt about the fact that this is signifying a turning point in your life. No matter how you get to this position, if you are the Hanged Man, this is a turning point in your life. Literally vert-- Yeah, pause. Literally vertically, you are turned upside down
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Insert record scratch here.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I bet you're wondering how I got myself in this position
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945yeah. Turning point in your life from material to spiritual. So your feet are on the ground, and then your feet are up in the sky.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Zero gravity
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945zero gravity. So it's like cause the feet can be associated with, like, the root, and when you're planted on Earth, that's the material. But then in the turning point,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948a lot of
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945being pointed to the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948the tarot with, like, feet on land, feet in water to
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, like the star that we'll be mentioning later on who has one foot in the water, one foot on the ground
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Different but similar
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, does Temperance do that?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, Temperance does that
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, I feel like the star
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Star has one foot in the water, one foot on land. Temperance has
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I guess we'll get into it later.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, we'll get into it later. I forget exactly how their feet are. I think their feet are
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Y'all are so into feet today
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I- hey,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Are you gonna be talking about feet?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025No. Unless you want me to.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945More horses' hoofs
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Hoofs.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025More hoops
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948My hooves.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yes, Temperance also has one foot on land, one foot on water
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945There's always one foot doing one thing and another foot doing another thing
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Uh, the symbolism of it all
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945The symbolism of it all. occultists found significance in the geometric structure of the image. So like River was saying earlier, kinda looks like an upside down crucifix.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Kind of looks like something I've tried to do in pole class before
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, it's not-- They didn't quite see it that way. What they saw was an inverted triangle where his head was, and then his legs make a cross. So it's sort of like a cross on top of an inverted triangle, and that just so happens to be an alchemical sign of accomplishing the, quote-unquote, "great work."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Of course it is.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm. The magnum opus. Yes, like I said, I'd be bringing up the magnum opus
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025opus.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh, oh.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Magnum cum dong
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes, magnum cum dong, magnum opus.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Especially because apparently the triangle is like the symbol of the human spirit that shows up a lot in the tarot. Like, that's part of like Temperance's deal too, and we can talk about that later. But like,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Are you gonna be talking about the Golden Dawn?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948No.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Thank God.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It got, it got brought up a lot in my research, and I was like "I'm tired of you guys. Stop showing up." I don't, like... I care, but I'm also like, it's too much to
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948They were very influential. Yeah.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025That's like a series of episodes
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Nose goes, who's gonna do It
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It could
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Is that Aleister
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yes
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945So yeah, this symbol, magnum opus, transformation, forming the philosopher's stone. I mean, you can extrapolate the philosopher's stone not to be a physical stone, but you can think in this card's instance that it's the i- again, that idea of transformation, turning towards the holy, becoming the best version of yourself through this type of transformation turning point in your life, if you really wanna be Golden Dawn with it
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948If you wanna get golden dawn about it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945If you wanna get Golden Dawn about it. also some view the inverted triangle as the alchemical symbol for water. So without the cross, it's just also a watery sign. So a lot of variations are water-based. Uh, some of the mo- more modern versions, they take a watery approach, and I saw a lot of different places that the ruling planet and god is Neptune for this card. So it's like a water card, Neptune. Um, I just have a note here that says, "Freemasons?" Three question marks. "Tarot goes too deep, shaking my head." And so we're just gonna move
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948pop up somehow. The Freemasons are alw... They've got their little fingers in a lot of things
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yep. So like I've been saying, his-- 'Cause I was like, "Why his leg like that?" Like, when I first looked at it, I was like, "Why are you doing that with your leg, my guy?" Um, and it's likely just to make that cross shape.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Mm-hmm
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And if you, again, if you really wanna dig down, it could be like it's the number four because his leggings are red. It's associated with the emperor card and,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You could get very in the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Four stability, triangle three leg four equals 12.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948structure is the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes, There's just too, it was too many separate elements that
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yes, keep going. Yes.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Takes another hit of meth
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh my God. I have the red strings up on a corkboard
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's medicinal
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay, and then I have a note that says now I have to read from the man himself Arthur Edward Waite. Yet again, I'm going
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948it. His long-winded ass quotes.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He's so full of
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948He's very flowery with his speaking.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945This, this section that he has on the hanged man, oh yeah and he's low-key coming for other people in this segment
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948This is his shame
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945that..." Yeah, yeah he said, "They think
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Bitch.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945this, but they're wrong."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Ooh.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945So anyway, I'll, I'll get into it.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Just like a man.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Just like a man
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Again, it's a, a yet another dick measuring contest as always Oh, that's what they're called, the Gallows
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945The gallows from which he is suspended forms a tau cross, while the figure, from the position of the legs, forms a feel foot cross. There is a nimbus about the head of the seeming martyr. It should be noted that the tree of sacrifice is living wood with leaves thereon, that the face expresses deep entrancement, not suffering, that the figure as a whole suggests life in suspension, but life and not death. It is a card of profound significance, but all the significance is veiled. One of his editors suggests that Eliphas Levi did not know the meaning, which is unquestionable, nor did the editor himself. It has been called falsely a card of martyrdom, a card of prudence, a card of the great work, a card of duty, but we may exhaust all published interpretations and find only vanity. I will say very simply on my own part that it expresses the relation in one of its aspects between the divine and the universe. He who can understand that the story of his higher nature is embedded in this symbolism will receive intimations concerning a great awakening that is possible and will know that after the sacred mystery of death, there is a glorious mystery of resurrection. So that is what Arthur Waite has to say about the hanged man. People are getting it wrong, and he's mad about it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025And he's the one, He's the only one
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945He said, It's so obvious you guys are so stupid. That's not what
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He's like, You guys are vain. not
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948not me though, because I, I'm going to glory everlasting when I die
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, so he's hanging but why? Is he a martyr or is he a traitor? Why? Why is he
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948put it in there?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025he's hanging
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Are you a martyr or a traitor on your fool's journey? Ponder that, listener. Ponder that on your
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948taken both in a very external and internal sense, where it's like, are you betraying
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Traitor to who?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948you or are you betraying yourself?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chew on that
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Chew on that
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yes. yes, I already talked about how suspension between heavens and earth. I already talked about his red pants
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948His funny little pants. Hmm.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945also represents water, but specifically multiple times the High Priestess card gets mentioned. And I think that's because in previous card depictions, that sort of sacrificial tree, uh, that is a cross in this version, there are other versions where there are two pillars on either side of him, which represent the pillars from the High Priestess card. And so I think that taking the blue in here is sort of keeping that High Priestess symbolism as a callback. Yeah.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mother Mary
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm. And I mean, it makes sense if, you know, you're doing this sort of pause and contemplation with the subconscious and,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Kind of tap into your intuition
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945yeah, trying to tap into your intuition, especially because if you think about being upside down could mean that, like, your head is towards the underworld, and the High Priestess has that underworld tie, and, you know, you'd be closer to her if you were upside down in theory, and yeah, you get it. oh, the halo. I, I personally don't love that he's got a halo. I don't know why, but it, I, I feel like it's too...
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Seems out of place in the card, I will say. And maybe I'm just too vain and I don't fucking get it the way Arthur gets it,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. It is, it, but it is like Christian
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948as martyrdom
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. 'Cause he's like, he's not a martyr, puts a halo on him. It's
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. He's not a martyr, but he has, like, the symbol of martyrdom literally on him.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Exactly
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Make it make sense, Arthur
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, very contradictory card, very, I don't know. But I think that is sort of the point of this card is that it's very in the middle. It's very wishy-washy. It's, yeah, like you kind of have to... I think that when you come to the hanged man point in your life, or the hanged man comes up for you, it's at a point where you need guidance and you are confused. So it makes sense that there are a lot of confusing things about this card.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm. What do you think?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945What do you think? Yeah, that's basically what this card is asking you. What do you think? I have written down, uh, 'cause we like to do, like, if you ask a yes or no question, what does this card mean? And either upright or reversed, I would say it's giving ask again later
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Take a beat.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. Think about it. Upright, very generally, it means to let go, to surrender, to have patience, to change your perspective, or to pause, depending on what you ask. Reversed, it could mean that there will be delays, resistance, involuntary, begrudging sort of energy perhaps. Uh, you ask a question, and then you get the reversed Hanged Man, and, uh, it's asking you to pause, but you wanna keep going. I-- To me, that's... Yeah, you're being impatient. Yeah, you don't wanna listen, and the reversed Hanged Man is saying you know you need to pause, but you're not.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. If you don't stop, something's gonna stop you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, you're just, you're just pushing through Okay. And I would like to conclude my segment with the conclusion from tarotheritage.com because I feel like they summed it up very nicely in this one little paragraph How can we reconcile the early Italian traitor with the contemporary Hanged One who follows a path of personal transformation? They both stand outside the normal social order and both cling to unconventional values. The traitor may be a criminal in the eyes of the establishment, but he risked his life to pursue something he valued. If the United States had lost the War of Independence, George Washington and all the Founding Fathers would have been hung as British traitors, but they would have entered American folklore as martyrs for freedom. The contemporary Hanged One leads a courageous, unconventional life that is condemned by those who don't understand the inner process. These non-conformists know they must follow their heart or suffer a spiritual death And that's the Hanged Man, y'all.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's the hanged Man,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, man
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Heavy, heavy shit.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Mm.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Man, it makes me wanna go do ankle hangs
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh, no
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oof. I'm gonna tiptoe around a snake.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025it's the climbing back up that's the hardest part,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, yeah. The core work, you gotta, like, pull yourself back up
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, and then the heave when you like cross your ankles and all that. Yeah
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945All right, who we got next? 13, lucky 13. We got death. All
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_11394813.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay. It's time to get into what's probably the most feared card of all time, closely
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945rope first.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, oh, okay. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I got I got my rope. I'm gonna tie it around my waist real quick
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945you gonna tie it into a hangman's noose?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I'm just gonna wrap it around my feet, I've got it around my ankles for good luck. Um, and we'll get into what's probably the most feared card of all time, closely followed by The Tower. Uh, it's also probably the most misunderstood card of the tarot by people that either don't read or that are just starting out. I know some people, when they pull the Death card for the first time, they're like, "Oh my God,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948gonna fucking
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I'm gonna die. My death is on the horizon right now." But if you're a person that reads tarot regularly, uh, you probably already know that the Death card rarely symbolizes actual physical death. Instead, it symbolizes change for the most part, but specifically the type of change where one thing has to end before the next thing can begin As with every other card, depending on the deck and the tradition, uh, it has different names. So obviously death, we've got the death part. We've got the skeleton, the reaper, rebirth, mortality, nothingness, and then my favorite, it just doesn't have a name. It is just left without a name in the deck, uh, which is most common among decks that are based on the Tarot de Marseille tradition, and my personal deck is a Tarot de Marseille deck, uh, Tarot of the Sorceress, and it leaves the 13th card of the Major Arcana without a name. This tradition probably arose from avoiding the bad luck that comes with saying the word death. Like, if you say the word, that invites it upon yourself, you know? Uh, similarly, the name of the god Hades originates from the Proto-Greek, uh, Aezes or Hades or Aidoneus, which means invisible, um, so that's why he's the unseen one. And while dying and the aftermath of life are pr- very visible to us mortals, death itself and what comes after death for the spirit remains unseen. Uh, just like some people avoid saying the word death, the Greeks avoided saying the name Hades for fear that it would tempt fate and bring death upon them earlier than, uh, earlier than it should come upon them. So not only is he the unseen one, but his name is invisible as well. So I think that it's pretty fitting that often the death card goes without a name, in my mildly educated opinion. Before we get into the imagery on the card, I do wanna talk-- We are gonna get a little bit into the number 13 first, because I feel like 13 is a pretty significant number, just, like, culturally. so what, what does the number 13 mean to you guys? Or, like, generally speaking, what associations do you have with it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That's when I get
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Culturally, Yeah. societally you get tattoo deals on Friday the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Friday the 13th, Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah I've never had an unlucky Friday the 13th, I will say. Nothing bad has
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025think I have
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948to me
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Is it a prime number?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Ever. Nothing bad has or will ever happen to me
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Uh, well, a lot of people have very negative associations with the number 13, and there's even a phobia of the number 13, uh, rooted in that socie- societal notion that it's bad luck. So that is triskaidekaphobia. Triskaidekaphobia is fear of the number 13. But 13's a really interesting number partially because it's a successor or the successor to another very important number, 12, that Sky has already touched on. 12 is a very significant number. Uh, it ob- it often symbolizes the end of a cycle, so 12 months, 12 zodiac signs, 12 days of Christmas, 12 disciples of Jesus, 12 gods of Olympus, 12 tribes of Israel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 12 is a big one. There are 12.4 lunar cycles a year. Fun fact, each one takes about 29 and a half days, and this means that every once in a while, we have a year with 13 full moons instead of 12. So this is kind of an anomaly, you know? I mean, you can calculate... No, a blue moon is when there are more than, um, more than one full moons in a month, and it's the second full moon. Yeah. doesn't happen super often. That's why, you know, once in a blue
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948That's tonight's full moon, y'all
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh. Oh, that's right. Yeah, it's May 31st as we're recording right now. 2026. So historically, festivals and holidays, I think we've touched on this before, but they were held according to moon cycles, like X number of days after the full moon following, you know, XYZ, whatever. So in a year with 13 moons, everything gets kinda fucked up. Like, the calendar gets kinda fucked up. Y'all remember 2012?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Barely.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I choose not to, but
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025as in, like, the end of the world, the Mayan calendar? Yeah, we'll talk about the Mayan calendar real quick here. So the end of the world was predicted to be December 21st, 2012, because that was the date that the end of the 13th Bak'tun of the Mayan calendar occurred. So basically, instead of just counting linear years, the Mayan calendar tracked time in Bak'tuns, which are temporal cycles. They consist of 144,000 days, which is a number divisible by 12. Uh, each Bak'tun is about 394 years. 13 cycles make up an era, so on the last day of the 13th cycle, the era ends, hence the apocalypse
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Fair.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Makes sense,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Did they figure out the true date? 'Cause I know that they just miscalculated it,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I don't know. I don't wanna
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh, hey I spent most of twenty eleven and twenty twelve, like, in a sheer state of panic over that. So I
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I was very scared
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I mean, it was like December 21st, 2012. It's like 1/22/112, like written out, you know?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Winter solstice too, longest night.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yep
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Um, when did the movie come out? Wasn't there like a, end of the world
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948There was
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It was before?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It was before.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I know there was like an
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945gets on a ship? Yeah, like a big military ship.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Uh, similar to what Sky said earlier, Jesus and his 12 disciples, one plus 12, there are 13 people around the table at the Last Supper. The 13th was Judas.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, Judas.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, Judas, yeah. Um, who's the bad one? Who's the traitor? That's another reason why 13 is unlucky. Friday the 13th was considered unlucky before our beloved Jason Voorhees began slaughtering teenagers at summer camp, or I guess his mom in the first one. Spoilers, sorry, for this 45-year-old movie.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It's 'cause the, the trade-the trader happened on a Friday, right? Like the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025because, um, well, that happened on, um, Thursday, and then Jesus was crucified on Friday. So Friday's already an unlucky day. 13 is an unlucky number. You put them together, you got, like, double unlucky. Boom all that to say, if 12 is typically the last number, 12 baktuns, 12 months, um... Oh, I didn't even mention this. 12 in German, or sorry, 13 in German is the first number to be written with letters instead of numbers. You know, there are, like, some grammatical conventions in different languages, um, because at a certain point, it gets more difficult to, like, write out a full number than to just put the digits. So, um Yeah. I was gonna get into French. We're not gonna talk about French. We talked about the French already today. That's
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948minutes
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. All right. Okay. So yeah, so if 12 is the last number of a cycle, what is 13? 13's what comes after the end. 13 is death. What's scarier than that? The unknown, man
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Dun,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Done. Okay. The card. Now we'll talk about the card. This is what it looks like. Yeah,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945dun. Purdy
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025so this card has a ton of elements. Um, so we'll just-- we'll list them first, and then we can get into the analysis. You've got, in the background, a river. On the river is a boat. Uh, you also have a sun that is kind of, like, partially obscured by the horizon, so it's either setting or rising. Who's to say? There are also two pillars that frame the sun, and like Skye was saying, again, we see two pillars in a ton of tarot cards in the Major Arcana. and these particular pillars, the way that they look, they're like two white pillars, and it looks like they have windows or something at the top. They're also featured on the Moon card. So we'll see them on the Moon card also next episode, I think. I don't know, maybe the one after that. In the foreground, we obviously have the main subject of the card, a skeleton in a suit of armor riding a white horse with red eyes. He's holding a black flag with a white rose in its center. The number 13 is written in Roman numerals at the top left corner of the flag. Behind the horse on the ground, we have what looks like a man laying supine. Um, he's covered with a blue blanket. Next to him, there is a crown toppled over onto the ground, right behind the hoof, the front hoof of the horse. Nearly beneath the horse, we have a child looking up at the horse. She's on her knees. Uh, she's reaching back to grab onto either her mother or maybe her older sister, um, who's also on her knees. She's wearing a white dress, and she has her head turned away from the horse, and her eyes are closed. Finally, the last person on the card is a bishop or a priest. He's standing in front of and, like, kind of farther back from the viewer than the horse is, and he's looking up at the skeleton with his hands outstretched in front of him, palms facing up. So that's a lot. That's a lot of things. Um, this card is really interesting because it is the only card of the Major Arcana that shows humans at every stage of life. So you've got child, adult, um, old person, dead person, skeleton, corpse,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948All stages of life
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025all stages of life and death. Most cards up until this point in the Major Arcana have three or fewer central figures. The only exception is the Wheel of Fortune. So this card has six, uh, and it has six human or humanoid figures, whereas the Wheel of Fortune has little beasties for the most part, little guys. Uh, so I think that the sheer amount of people and the breadth of their life experiences on this card is significant and intentional because it ties death to growth.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Also, death can find anybody at any time
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Death is common at literally anybody, babies to the elderly, zero to 100 and beyond. The elements. The sun is either rising or setting, like we said. Those pillars, they're in the High Priestess card, Hierophant, Justice. Apparently, they were also in the, uh, Hanged Man at one point. Uh, as we've said in previous episodes, the number two depicts balance, duality, and the sun setting behind the pillars is reminiscent of maybe a gateway or some sort of entrance, you know, where you, like, you walk through it, you're transitioning to the other side. There's more beyond the gate, but we can't see it. We don't know what's over there from where we are right now. The boat on the water. As I mentioned in episode 49 when we talked about animal psychopomps, boats on water, water, bodies of water in general are pretty commonly seen across cultures as, like, these liminal spaces, these transitory spaces between life and death. Most famously, you have, of course, the River Styx, uh, over which a boatman ferries you from the land of the living to the led- to the land of the dead The horse, it's a big white horse. Uh, of course, it's a horse.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Which Poppy hates, again, by the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I'm not a fan of horses, yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945keep talking
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025motherfucking inbred. I, I, I, it, I do with the death card, dude. What else am I supposed to do? Um, well, I, I just realized that I guess you can only see two of the horse's legs, but one of them is lifted, which kind of reminds me of the withered front leg of the Helhest a little bit. Um, but yes, we all know Revelation 6:8, of course.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945By heart. I have it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yes, go ahead, recite it for me.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That's a joke, by the way. I do not
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yes. And I looked and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and to hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." So this is talking about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Death is the fourth. Um, he rides a pale horse. Usually it's supposed to be like a sickly green, like gray horse, but on this card it's white. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be Death and not Conquest, which is the first white horse. Uh, but it makes more sense to be Death, obviously. Uh, so it's the last horseman, but it's not the final seal. So there are seven seals of the apocalypse, if we're going to Revelation. Strap in for
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And we must go to Revelation
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025We have to go to Revelation again, obviously. What did you say, Sky?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I said like our art seal? What are we
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, yes, of course. All of the, the seals are all balancing balls on their
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945All of the sea lions of the apocalypse,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948and they're going,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948their neck, in and out like that
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ugh
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025So yes, fourth and final horseman, he's the last one, but he's the fourth of seven seals. Kinda like right in the middle, you know? Like, there's stuff that comes before, there's stuff that comes after, but it's really the turning point. So after the four horsemen do their thing, there's the fifth seal where the souls of the martyred, hello, hanged man, cry out for justice. The sixth s- sixth seal, which is really hard to say, in which the cataclysmic earthquakes shake the world, the sun turns black, the moon turns red, meteorites are
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yada, yada.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025yada.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Heard it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Uh, then finally, we've got the seventh seal, the final seal, where the 144,000, that number again, number of days in the Bak'tun divisible by 12, receive divine protection, and profound silence blankets, blankets the heavens and the Earth before the trumpets of judgment sound, shaking the cosmos. And at the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945of people who get saved?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That's not very many.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, that's why
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948There were a lot less people back then.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, there's like a whole sect of, like, Mormons and whatnot that are recruiting for the 144,000. That's the whole, um, what were their names? Chad and Lori Vallow. You know, that was kind of their thing.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Sounds familiar.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025They killed their children, um, fairly recently. I mean, a couple years back, yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Don't do that.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025crazy people. Yeah, they k- they-- Well, actually, they killed her children. They killed his wife, killed her children because they were having, like, an affair. Um, and he was, uh, the author of, like, horrible Mormon novels, and then they f- fled to Hawaii and got married, and then got arrested in Hawaii. Anyway. Anyway, if you wanna tell us more about Chad and Lori Vallow, you can send your information to deathcovenpod@gmail.com.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948tips you'd like to pass along
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Anyway, at the seventh seal, the trumpets, the mystery of God is finished, his kingdom is established, Revelation, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948big boom
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025E the big boom. So yes, Death is the fourth horseman. It signals the end of the beginning and the beginning of the end. Smack dab in the middle, number four. Um, so here we can very clearly see, even in Revelation, death is not the end. In the Major Arcana, Death is 13th out of 22, so it's a, it's a little bit over halfway through. I guess technically it's 14 out of 22, but, you know, that's, that's where we are.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Because of zero
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Cause of zero, 'cause the fool is zero. Goose egg. I feel like I'm rambling. This,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948this is all very informative
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025it was the musings of a madman. We're gonna get into,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You're doing a better job than me, so
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I, I do not think so. Um, anyway, the skeleton rider, probably the most interesting part of the card to me. He looks like the Grim Reaper.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's very eye-catching
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yes, and I spoke briefly about the origins of the Grim Reaper in our second Vin- Victorian episode back in episode 11, maybe? Maybe it was 10, somewhere around there. Um, way back. so yeah. So way back in the 13th century, Western artists began to include imagery of skeletons in their art to symbolize death. Then in the 14th century, something big happened in Europe. You guys remember
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Was it The plague? Was it the plague?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It was The plague.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It was the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Death, you might say. Yeah, Yeah, so the Black Death was a huge, it was a big, kind of a big deal.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Um, it was Kind of a big deal,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Kind of a big deal and it caused this cultural shift. Um, these skeletons turned from broad symbols of death into the Grim Reaper, an actual personification of death. It was the deadliest pandemic in human history, claiming the lives of one-third of Europe, possibly up to 200 million people. Yeah. And death on such a mass scale shifted the perception of death as an everyday fact of life, because of, of course it was, especially back then. Um, but it became this oppressive, all-encompassing force that was constantly
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948'Cause you couldn't do
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025You can't escape it. no
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, so death was no longer just a fact of life, it was the focus of life, and legitimately traumatized generations. Like, if we thought COVID-19 was traumatizing, bitch, imagine the fucking plague.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Next five generations fucked
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945That tick bite would've, would've really sent
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025it would've knocked you out,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948killed you.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945If that tick had the plague, if that tick had the black plague, I would
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh, you'd be dead right now
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'd have a, a bubo
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Your leg would have fallen off
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025You'd be boobo'd up.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948No.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945My booboos.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948My booba.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025So the humble skeleton morphed into the reaper who often carries a scythe. Sometimes he was naked, but then eventually they put little clothes on him.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Can you be naked if you're a
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Cover those up
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I think so. I mean, you re- you're really naked. You don't even have
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948the most naked you can be. But, like, you don't have anything, like, indecent
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, there's no flaps to cover, no nip nops.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948nips
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Uh, sometimes Death was, or the Grim Reaper was a skeletal long-haired woman with wings, so not always just a skeleton. But eventually, the Grim Reaper motif became a motif of the, uh, of the Danse Macabre, which is also really interesting, that sprung up and persisted through the 15th through the 17th centuries. And then in the 19th century Victorian era, as black became the color to wear at funerals, um, and modesty was critical. Modesty really took off during the Victorian era. They had to put little clothes on him. They gave him a little black
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948He cannot be naked. That's where his penis would be if he had one. Cover it up
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025don't wanna see that pelvis.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Those child-bearing hips
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. The name The Grim Reaper appeared in print for the first time in 1847 in a book called "The Circle of Human Life," and the rest was history
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Is that like a scientific novel or...?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I don't know. I think it's like a, um, what's it called? Like, theostic... It's like
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Hmm. I-- Gotcha
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025So the skeleton rider in the Death card is not wearing robes. He's wearing a suit of armor instead, perhaps to symbolize the invincibility of death. It cannot be defeated. Instead of a scythe, we see the reaper carrying a flag. He is not carrying a sword or a scythe. He's not attacking. He's just, he's identifying himself with this flag and crest. Ultimately, he's neutral. He's just, he's showing up. He's like, "Hey, I'm here. I'm just, I've just got a job to do. Sorry, not sorry." What's the deal with the flag?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948What is, the deal with the flag?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025this is the point where
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I just
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025went off the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945a pirate.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025No. Ugh. What... Do you guys have the same back of your
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948flair. Yes,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I have, um, stars
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025You have stars Okay, well, the back of this card in the center, that's a Tudor rose right there
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Oh, like the English tutors
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Unfortunately, yes. So on this black flag, you have a white rose, not the Tudor rose. And this is the point where I just got so lost in the sauce and I lost the plot and I gave myself a headache and I was like, "I can't do this." Because it, we, it, the War of the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's too much
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025So the white rose is the rose of York, which was one of the two precursors to the Tudor rose that developed at the conclusion of the War of the Roses. And just to give, like, a very high level, basically English royalty, there are two houses, House of York, House of Lancaster. House of York's the white rose, House of Lancaster's the red rose. They're both propagated by Edward III. He dies, things get messy, people are usurping each other, kids are getting locked in towers. Joan of Arc is kind
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948some roses, dude.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Alice in Wonderland starts playing, You get it.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You get it.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025it's a whole thing, yeah
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You know the, how they paint the, they go back and forth with the red
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Who's been painting my roses red?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Um, sidebar, my college roommate that you guys met at the... Well, Skye's met her multiple times. She was obsessed with European royalty and could literally, like, name all of the lineages, like everybody in every family going all the way back to the 10th century. Like, insane. But
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945are crazy
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025she was obsessed with the Tudors, yeah, and the War of the Roses. And one night we were super drunk, and I'm just, like, sitting crisscross applesauce on the ground, and she's above me lecturing on the War of the Roses, just like arms are going crazy. And I'm just sitting there rapt with attention looking at- my eyes are the size of fucking saucers. And then the next morning, everything was gone. I forgot everything, everything that happened. But I remember that it was, like, soap opera level drama,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I mean, they made a whole TV show about the Tudors specifically. Call- it's called The Tudors
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025No, The
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945i, i have, i have two clients, they're a couple, they're an older couple. They have a really extravagant garden and they had English roses, like, mailed to them, and they have an archway in their backyard that has, like, the English roses, I think it's the red ones, um, that that drape over their, their garden arch. And they said they smell really good, and I believe it. They've been bred and bred and bred for generations to be, like, perfect
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Whoa.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm gluten-free. Stop
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Crazy
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Ultimately, after the War of the Roses, King Henry VII merged the white rose and the red rose together to form the Tudor rose.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945'em kiss
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, which has that outer ring of red petals and an inner ring of white petals. And the Tudor rose symbolizes unity, and of course, Death is the banner over us all. However, they did not use the Tudor rose on this card. They used the white rose of York, which is interesting, because he does everything intentionally, and I'm like, if you meant for this to be the Tudor rose, you would've made it red, right? You would've made it both red and b- red and white, but the flower's only white, so it's not the Tudor rose, it's the York rose. The York rose symbolizes purity and peace. Death is both pure and peaceful, I guess. You know. Are you looking at
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I, I can see what he's got to say
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, you can see. I didn't look. I don't give a fuck what he has to
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948What do you have to say for yourself, Arthur?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025But yeah, it's also the precursor.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945he calls it The Mystic rose
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025The Mystic Rose.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945which signifies
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025has to be extra. life Okay.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's like It's not even the White Rose, it's the Mystic Rose,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, even though it looks exactly like the white rose of York. Uh, but it's the precursor to the Tudor rose. It's the precursor to that unity where everything joins together, just like death is not the end. It's not... Death it's, is not the final destination. It's just a precursor to the next phase. The human people. We got human people on this card. The man on the ground, on his back, he's dead. The man, there's a crown next to him on the ground. It, this indicates he was royalty of some kind, and this reminds us that there's equality in death. Even if you're the most rich, the most famous person on earth, you're still gonna die
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Just like in the catacombs episode, how people were stacked up next to, you
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, we're all the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948doesn't matter. You're just bones now
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Just bones. Um, some people say, I don't know what Arthur has to say about it, but some people say that the skeleton rider is the man reborn into death. Uh, I don't know if I agree with that, but I guess it's interesting. It's an interesting idea.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Is that just because he's wearing the armor that they say
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I think so, yeah. And it's like a very, like, royal, regal horse, and the crown is at the foot of the horse. Like, the horse is stepping over the crown instead of stepping on it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945calls him a reaping skeleton.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Creeping
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945The apocalyptic visions by the crude notion of the reaping skeleton
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Sure, dude
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025the bishop/priest, if the fallen king depicts the inevitability of death despite your worldly status, the bishop represents it despite your spiritual status. Like, even the most connected to the divine, even Jesus himself, the Son of God, living briefly in human form, faces death at the, at the end, you know? Well, not at the end. You know what I mean. He still faces death ultimately to be resurrected. We do see the bishop standing to face the horse and the rider with his palms up, and maybe this indicates that the bishop is more prepared, like more familiar with the inevitability of death because he is spiritually connected. Um, he knows that death is not something to be afraid of. The mother and child on the ground, some people say that they're sisters. I don't know how they're related. Uh, one is looking upward. The little one's looking upward, like almost in awe. There's a kind of like a respect or reverence for the rider, but she's still afraid. Like, her fear is unmistakable. She's kind of holding her little dolly up to her mouth, and she's reaching behind her for the larger lady, probably for comfort, like reaching toward her hand. The other woman, the older woman in contrast, she refuses to look at or acknowledge death. The child is grasping for her hand, um, but you can see that she's not holding the child's hand. She keeps her palm open and her hand is kind of like flexed, like she doesn't wanna grasp back or even acknowledge that someone is reaching out to her, you know? So these two figures represent the duality of how people react to death when it's right in front of them. You have some in awe, they're seeking comfort. It's like this... They let it touch them deeply, and then other people just shut down. Like, they just wanna shut it down, shut it out, and refuse to acknowledge it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945She also kind of looks like she's fainted. Like, it kind of looks like she, she's had a really dramatic, like
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, okay. So what does the death card really mean?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Who fucking knows?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025ultimately it's about change. It's inevitable. Every person who has ever lived has gone through multiple personal deaths throughout their lives. The death of innocence, the death of the person they once were, the death of an old identity. literal deaths of the people around us, whether they're loved ones or, um, people that we don't know personally, like, they all shape us. Like we talked about with our first experiences with death back in episode 12, I think. It changed us. Experiencing death, even though it wasn't our own death, it changes you. And even though these deaths are usually painful in some way, they're unavoidable. Every time we move forward, we are changed. It's not a card of reincarnation, but it is a card of rebirth. You are reborn. And even in our final death at the end of our lives, we move forward. So you can choose to either embrace it or resist it, but it's coming. It's coming. It's coming
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's gonna get you. You hear the hoofs coming
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Okay, upright, very straightforward. I've said it all already. We've touched on all the elements, endings, transitions, big changes, the end of an era. Um, specifically needing to clear out old dead things, like prune back what's no longer serving you so that you can sprout your new green shoots, so that, um, new things can grow. It means it, it could be time to unsever... No, it could be time to sever some unhealthy
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It'd be crazy to unsub or something.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025you just, like, sew it up. Yeah, you chop off your arm and then just sew it back on. Sometimes, though, sometimes we do that shit, and then we just drag it, drag it,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945then it rots and we still
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948rots and it. sucks and it smells.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025some of those little, um, those little fish to eat all the dead skin, you
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948my necrosis
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Reversed, it can mean that per- perhaps you're resisting change, holding too tightly to the past. Um, it's possible that if you resist for too long, the change is just gonna knock down your door, and it's gonna drag you out kicking and screaming
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Not accepting the inevitable
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Not accepting it. And much like the mother and the child or the sisters or whatever, you have a choice in how you confront it. So do you wanna do this the easy way, or do you wanna do this the hard way? 'Cause it's gonna happen.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945and screaming
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Also, as reverse cards often can, it can mean that this death card energy is being pointed inward, like, toward you rather than outward. Um, so maybe this means that the change that's happening is happening, like, deep inside of you. It's a, it's a very personal change. Um, maybe it's a private change. Like, nobody else around you knows that it's going on, but it's still deeply, deeply affecting and changing you Yes and no. Depends on the question. Because the card usually revolves around change, um, it can... Basically, whatever you, question you ask, if you pull the death card, upright or reversed, it just means like, "Hey, something's gotta change. Something's changing." So if you ask, like, "Should I look for a new job?" and pull the death card, this doesn't mean if you look for a new job, you're gonna die. Probably. Uh, it's more of an encouragement, like, yes, it's time for change. Like, cut off the, that old dead job, get a new job. If you ask, "Should I give my shitty boyfriend one more ti- one more chance?" and then you pull the death card, it does not mean that you should kill him. Don't
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Get him. girls
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Or if you do, get away with it. But it might be time for the relationship to die, so that would be a no. yeah, it's j- just generally just a sign that something needs a transformation. Other thoughts. I wanna, I wanna circle back to the Black Death one more time, because I feel like it is a very, very fitting example of death card energy, just in general, um, going back to the birth of the Grim Reaper. So the Black Death, like I said, it was the deadliest pandemic in human history, killed one-third of Europe, uh, possibly up to 200 million people. It dramatically slashed the population of the Earth and changed the course of history forever. Like, we are here today in the way that we are because the Black Death happened. I do wanna do a Black Death episode at some point, but it would have to be a two-parter, and it would be really long and involved, and you guys would probably hate me by the end of it, because it's also an infectious disease thing. So it would be like cholera on crack, probably
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I loved cholera, and I love cholera.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945These fleas got me twisted.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025fleas got me twisted. These buboes got me twisted.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945My booboos
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, and what do we know about mass extinctions? We've talked about mass extinctions before. We know that they open the door to explosions of growth and evolution. So after the Black Death in Europe, after the population was decimated, feudalism was essentially demolished, causing the end of serfdom. Like, that's a big deal. Wages rose, people got wealthier. The caste system, like that super harsh, strict caste system that was in place, was deconstructed. There were fewer people living in poverty. With more wealth came better nutrition for the masses, leading to increased health, like across the board for the population. All of these factors coincided and then paved the way for the eventual birth of the Renaissance, which really got the ball, really got the ball rolling. Like, people didn't just need to survive. They now had time to learn and teach and invent things. That led to the Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, scientific advancements, until eventually Sir Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin, leading to the discovery of other antibiotics that actually cure plague. So I'm not saying that the Black Death was good. Obviously, I'm not saying that. It was a horrible global disaster. But I am saying that throughout the history of the planet, as we've talked about with mass extinctions, death has always led to life. Every death springs forward a new life, new opportunities, new ways to exist and experience. It's not the end of the journey. It's just the beginning
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Life is so resilient and beautiful and adaptive.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, it finds a way. Country girls make do.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025and that's it. That's it. That's the card
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You know what? I think on that I'm gonna crack open a brewski
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Hell yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, I think I'm gonna wait until we get into your... I don't know, like, how long it's gonna be until we start recording your topic, so I'm gonna wait. But I do have, I have a brewski and I got a little mini Seco
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Ooh You'll want it for mine
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, no. It's the history of Prosecco.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Fuck.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025No comment.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay. No, n- I'm giving you nothing. You wanna pass your little baton?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025gonna... You know what? Well
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Give me a
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945the flag.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah, I'll give you, I'll tie
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Give me a rib bone
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025rope around the, uh, femur of this skeleton and I'll take the feather out of the cap, out of the, um, armor, and I'll
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Call it macaroni?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025in there too. Yeah. Here's
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948so much. Yum, yum, yum
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Get that out of your
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Suck the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm just like a dog chewing on it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945So what comes after death? River, did you find out?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Well, according to the tarot layout, it's Temperance And I, as Skye also knows, have a, a long and storied history with Temperance.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948had me by the, the scruff of my neck, would not let me go for, like, the better part of a year.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm. Oh, the, I, real quick I just, it just flashed into my brain my next tattoo that I'm gonna get, I'm going to get the death card and the temperance card tattooed
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948little calves. Yes
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945on my calves. Yeah death on the left, temperance on the right in order of course.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Is Michael paying?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I don't know. We'll
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Doesn't he still owe you a tattoo?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945He does. He is going to pay for our wedding ring tattoos next month. But that's not, that's not... Like, it counts, but it doesn't really count because that's gonna be a small r- probably fairly cheap. Yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948tattoo
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Marked because we're together forever for all eternity.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948ever in heaven
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Until after death when we meet Raphael in temperance
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025when we get your own you get your own planets.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945What?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Bringing it back to
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Mormonism, you get your own planet when you die when you're a good enough Mormon
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I need you guys to explain Mormonism to me in an episode. Like, we got... Cause I don't, I don't know what it
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's fine. You're probably better off not knowing
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I only know soaking and dirty soda.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And that's all you need
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Okay.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And that's really all that matters when it comes to Mormonism, honestly
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Anyway
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Anyway, back to Temperance. I did not go into historical context, simply didn't have the time or the energy and Temperance to me is a very vibes based card. Like, you don't really need facts for it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It's a very medicine... It's a medicinal
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's a very, yeah, you can just sort of work out what it means on your own when you stop shying away from your life and you start taking a little peek at it. But we'll do the card's imagery and symbolism first. So there is a genderqueer androgynous angel, a winged angel, and that is for the, the melding and the unification of both binary masc and femme energies. Uh, one foot is in the water, and one foot is on land. Water, the subconscious, land, the material world, such as the star also we'll get into later. Um, and the angel is holding two little cups. Two little cups, and there's water being poured between the cups, and the way that it is drawn, it's impossible to know which way the water is being poured. And that is to symbolize the blending of the conscious and subconscious mind so that you can get that perfect ratio just right, to get the balance, which is the
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945To stop that black and white thinking
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Temperance hates black and white thinking, as I am very familiar with. What's our little angel wearing? It's wearing a white robe. White symbolizes divinity, holiness, like a clean slate, higher guidance,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Purity, virginity.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948purity. I would say it's less about, like, the virginity of it all and more about just, like, clean slate, divine guidance. On the robe, there's a little triangle and square. There's a triangle pointing upward that is encased by a square.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Isn't that symbol in the chariot?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I think the square is... There's a square on the chariot, right?
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945emperor, I'm pretty sure. He's got a bunch of squares
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948They're, they pop up a lot in the tarot.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025to shapes
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah, lots of shapes inside of other shapes.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yeah, yeah. Yeah. But like I said before, the triangle represents the human spirit and the Holy Trinity, and the square symbolizes earthly constraints and natural law, and together they mean the spirit is grounded within the physical boundaries.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Mm-hmm.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Very, it's a very of the material card.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Uh, hidden within the neckline of the angels' robes are the Hebrew letters for the name God, because it is a very, like, divine guidance card. Also, in the mountains of the card, which is pretty neat, in the background to the left, there's a path going off into the horizon, and there's mountains, and there's, like, a source of light above the mountains, and it's not giving sun in the way that the sun is depicted in all the other cards, but it is giving, like, source of light, source of wisdom, source of intuition
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Are you insinuating that where we are in this card perhaps is past the pillars from the, the death card?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I would say so. I feel like we're moving towards something. We've gotten the materials have changed with the Hanged Man. The perception's changed, the material's changed with Death. Now, like, we are moving past that into something new Uh, Temperance, all about balance. This card was popping up for me in a time of my life personally, because I, fun fact, struggle a lot with black and white thinking. It's the neurodivergence of it all, unfortunately. It's how my brain is set up to understand things in very, like, clear-cut boundaries. And that is not how the world works. That's not really how most things work. There are a lot of gray areas. There's a lot of nuance, and I didn't want to accept that, and I didn't wanna see that, and I was like, "No. Everything is supposed to make sense how it makes sense to me."
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It's easier if everything's just black and
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's much easier, but it's also not truthful, unfortunately. So the balance is not easy, which I think the mountains in the background symbolize. Like, it's hard to find that balance. It's hard to step back enough to view it and accept that like, "Oh, things aren't exactly how I thought. Things aren't black and white. There are things that I was missing." And balance is not all... It's not black and white thinking in the sense of like you were in the black and now you have to go into the white and shift back and forth. It's a very subtle blend of
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It gives life nuance
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yes, you have to find the right ratio, much like the human body. Homeostasis is constantly changing to stay balanced. We're not in one single fixed state all of the time, and neither is, like, proper balance. It's like making a delicious drink, you know? You gotta get the, the, the ingredients have to be in the right ratios for it to really come together and be delicious.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You really gotta get
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I would say baking is a little bit more constrained into black and white because it's very precise. It's very, like, by grams rigid. I think it's more like cooking, where you can just sort of like play around with it
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Mm-hmm. Making
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948and see what works. Making sauces, yes, yes.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Always add more garlic
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Always, if you can eat garlic, always put in more garlic. Uh, also what I was avoiding at this time in my life when Temperance was always popping up, shadow work, baby. Tapping into that subconscious and seeing what the hell is going on and trying to integrate the dark parts of myself so that I'm a more balanced and whole human being
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945They were kicking and screaming going, "I don't wanna look at it."
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025It's so scary
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948gross, and I wanna be perfect and good. And Temperance kept knocking me on the head with a big stick and going, "Not realistic, babe. Not truthful."
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You are
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948and I am a complex human person, and that is good and okay.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Flawed and all,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Flawed and all, I do my best, and that's really all there is to it. So if you're pulling Temperance a lot like me, maybe you need to take a little, a little step back. Maybe... And there are so many different areas of your life that can be out of balance. It can be your finances. It can be your relationships. It can be your health, your behavior, your activity, your sleep cycle, how much water you're getting.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Or all of them if you're
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948All of them. All of them, if you're me and you're beefing it crazy style at the time, and you're not eating, and you're not drinking enough water, and you're not sleeping well, and you're
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Go back to the personal
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yourself. Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Sometimes you just gotta have a little come to Jesus meeting and talk to
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Sometimes you gotta have like a lit, like a tiny little taste of a rock bottom to really snap you out of it and be like, "Whoa, it doesn't have to be like this."
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945the rock bottom, I guess, could be the death card. Yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It could be. You could have a little death and be like, "Hey, this has to stop. This has to
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025I could go for a little death. You, you know what I'm saying? A little petite mort. Mm-hmm.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948oh. But it's also, you don't look at your life and go, "Oh, I feel like shit. I'm not drinking enough water. I'm not eating well. I'm not exercising." You don't the next day go into like, what is it? A hard 75 or whatever it's called. 75 hard, the whole 30, like where you are like, "I'm gonna meditate every morning for four hours, and I'm gonna ride seven miles on my bike, and I'm gonna be a rob..." No, 'cause that You're going in the opposite direction. That's not balance. That's not realistic. Please,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945morning pages and drinking lemon
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yes, that's, that's just not realistic. You have to, uh For personal examples, myself, I started eating meat again because that added more balance to my life, one, in the amount of foods I could eat, and two, I'm getting more protein, which is great. I always need more protein.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm drinking ...And B12. I'm
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948on the B12, yeah, and the collagen. I got this 32-ounce water bottle,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Hell yeah.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948for you,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945used to have a child's water bottle
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I used to have a 16-ounce water bottle. It was a very darling and cu- I liked the color, and I was like, "It's small. It's fine. I'll just fill it up five fucking times a day."
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025and
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948No, and I didn't. But if I fill this bitch up three times a day and drink it, I'm good. That's awesome
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'd be proud if you drank two of those.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I sometimes, some days it's a struggle. Three is the ideal for my body weight, but like two, two is good. I'll be hydrated enough. I bought a bike recently, and I've been biking places. I went to the gym with my hot girlfriend today because she lifts weights, and I wanna
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945They have a hot girlfriend now, by
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I have a hot girlfriend. The Temperance rocks.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm trying to incorporate balance in sustainable, smaller ways. I'm also... I do need to prioritize rest more. Temperance is coming for me again because I'm not prioritizing rest. I'm
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I will say, can I say that I think that it is beneficial to you now that you have Sophia because now
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948She keeps my ass in line.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945you have a temperance accountability partner because you can, you can say, "These are my goals and things that I would like for myself," and she goes, Hey, I thought that you were gonna do those things that you were..."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948And she says, "How can I help you do that?" And I go, "Fuck!
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Now I have to
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Damn it, I
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And now they lift weights together at the gym,
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah. Look at those
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948today. We're going to do it more often, but lifting weights is very important to her. I love spending time with her. I need to have stronger staple joints. Yeah. she
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, she is
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945S-say less
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Say less. But really just, and it's deeply personal to you and your path, much like everything is with the tarot, but the first step is admitting there's a problem, unfortunately. So when you do that, then you can scale back and go, "Okay, well what is the problem?" Like, where is the problem? Taking inventory, taking stock. Again, we talk about it all the time. I need to do it again. And just seeing what's out of balance, what can be pared back, what can be pruned, what should be added in, and just playing around. You don't have to stick to the things that you throw in. You can add and remove as much as you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Yeah. I feel like a lot of times when I pull Temperance when my little, my little pea brain goes, "What does that mean?" I immediately g- I immediately get slapped with a, "Bitch, you know what the
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You know what, if you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945you pull Temperance, you know
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948more seconds, you know what it means. 'Cause it, it
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945on where it falls in the reading, like you
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948a lot of it also, like, you can use the cards around it if you really are stumped. Like, the context cards help out a lot. But usually when you pull Temperance, it is the first thing that pops into your head and you shoo it away, 'cause you don't wanna deal with it and you don't wanna think about it.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Whatever's on the back burner, you gotta, you gotta look at it now
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yeah, yeah, yeah. And some- and I feel like upright and reverse, it's hard either way. I feel like reversed you're resisting it too much. like
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945like our other two cards today
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948yes, it's a lot of, uh, surrender and resistance, and
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945all three of these cards are very like like an inevitability, a like forcing yourself to look at the thing, very you gotta do your homework, you have to take your medicine. Like that's what these three cards are like. This is the hard work. This is the meat. This is the entree. This is the point of it all, of life
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948you have a choice. You can lean into it and do the work, or you can keep your blinders on if you so choose and just let things happen at
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945and asking the divine for advice is because you want to be happy and you want the best outcome, and when they give you the answer and you say, "I don't like it," they say, "Fine.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Fine. Damn, bitch. Damn, bitch. I guess I'll go fuck myself then. Damn. And I'm never gonna give you a card ever again. Uh, don't come to me next time you have a
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And the next card you pull will be just a middle finger
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948It's new. I just added it for you
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_11394525th arcana middle finger. How many are there? 21?
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_11402522.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_11394822.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Well, 25 anyway
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah. So just always keep yourself in check. Never get too comfortable. That was the message that I got most recently, was, "Don't get too comfortable. You still have work to do."
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Keep the momentum.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Keep the momentum going. Don't become complacent.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And be flexible also. Like be, be pliable, be
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You have to be able to just rock with whatever happens and not let it bother you too much. So that's really the long and short of Temperance here. It's very vibes-based to me. I feel like there's not really a yes or no to it one way or the other.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I feel like it's a you know.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I- it's a, it just holds up a mirror and it goes, "Well, what do you think? What do you have to say
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You shouldn't even be asking
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948No, you know better.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Such a great segue into the devil
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Mm-hmm. Yes.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945When you say, "I actually can't do balance, I'm gonna descend
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948actually just gonna go to one extreme and stay there and become shackled by it, I think
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm bored. I'm gonna drink
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm bored. I'm gonna start doing risky behaviors, high-risk behaviors
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Serotonin levels up
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Uh, constantly chasing it. So that's it And now I have a funny little bone with a rope attached to it forever.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He he
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948New stim toy
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945are you gonna put it in your little cup?
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh yeah, let's go with the
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Just dunk it in your water
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah Bone
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945You use the bone to stir the water
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Talk about collagen
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm thinking about getting into bone broth recently I'm taking my health serious. I gotta start taking my health serious. I gotta
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945Gotta get those gains
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm almost a fucking hag, dude. I'm 31. I'm not young anymore.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025He expired according to the incels,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm old, and I'm chopped, and I'm cooked, and I'm unk. And I'm, you know what? I'm happy
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Yeah.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I'm Chunk and I'm free.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I'm chunk and I'm free. I'm chunk and I'm proud So that's it. Just find the balance. Be good to yourself. You'll get there It's hard work, but it's the only work worth
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945is the most unhinged tarot episode we've ever done
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah, probably.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945It'll be ma- m- it'll be entertaining at the very least, I,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948it's a good episode back
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025excited to listen to it a month from now and just be like, "Oh, shit."
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948shit. Oh,
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945and for the record, I think that you did death justice
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948You did death very well
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025did justice.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I did Justice. Eh.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Ugh.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945But as someone who did Justice, I think that you represented death
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you.
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945The scales balanced, much like Temperance, to round it all out
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Yeah
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025If you would like to tell us what you think of these three cards, what they mean to you, uh, if you wanna tell us that you hate us or you love us, or you think we're sexy, or if you think that we're unk,
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948if you think I'm chopped
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025you think we're all chopped, you can write to deathcovenpod@gmail.com or visit us on Instagram deathcovenpod. We like ya, we love ya, we want some more of ya. By the power of three
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945And so it is.
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948Oh, it is.
dead-host953_1_05-31-2026_114025And so it is
crybaby-jones--she-cry-_1_05-31-2026_113945I forgot to post pictures on Instagram for the last episode that came out
big-river--buff-baby-_1_05-31-2026_113948I don't think anyone needs to see the Hellhost.