Rewiring Your Nervous System for Your Next Era (with Masha Kay)

In this episode, I sit down with nervous system and breathwork coach Masha Kay to talk about something I think a lot of us experience but don’t always understand... why the moment life starts getting better, something inside us suddenly freaks out.

Since March on The Dry Diaries is all about rewriting your story, we talk about what happens when your mind wants growth but your body is still used to survival mode. We get into why people self-sabotage when things are going well, why certain environments or relationships can leave you feeling drained, and how your nervous system can actually affect your confidence, decisions, and the way you show up in your life.

Dear Diary Prompts

Do I feel calm when things in my life are going well… or do I start waiting for something to go wrong?

What would my life look like if growth actually felt safe?

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Check out her, Back to You is a free two-week framework of quick and simple morning and evening journaling prompts designed to help you realign with your priorities, reconnect with your vision, and move toward your goals in a way that feels sustainable and aligned. She is also offering all the dearest $300 off her workshop and coaching by using code DRYDIARIES300. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Regulation Matters

unknown 0:06

This is the Dry Diaries with your author, Alex Strai.

Alex 0:18

Hey guys, welcome back to another entry of the Dry Diaries. It's your author, Alex Stry, and today I am joined with Masha Kay. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. As you guys know, we've been talking about reinvention, releasing, renewing, and stepping into your next era. And something that people don't always realize is during this reinvention phase that it's not just mental. It's really rooted in your nervous system. And if there's something that is dysregulated, then it's gonna just lead you back to what's familiar until your nervous system is regulated. Me personally, I know that my nervous system is always dysregulated. I've been deep diving the science behind it because we love a good deep dive. We love conspiracy theories. Oh, I love that. I didn't know. So I brought Masha Kay on the podcast because she is a spiritual coach that helps people heal and regulate their nervous systems.

Perfectionism And A Wake Up Call

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm so excited to be here and to talk all things nervous system because you're so right. It is the key to reinvention.

Alex 1:32

I love how you framed it. She lived in New York and had the perfect life on paper. You're successful in a financial career, boss babe. But you were living for perfectionism and found it dysregulating. And that's what led you into starting this journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, that's exactly it. My whole life was around perfectionism and being a high achiever. That was my entire identity. And I went into actuarial science, which is this really niche path in finance, really hard, really math-oriented. It's actuarial science. So it's the people who calculate the risk to price insurance products. So it's like the math behind it. It's a career where you have to take a bunch of exams to get in. So a lot of math exams. So it's hard to get into. And so literally, first day of college, I heard about it. I heard it's like a top career, and I never looked back. I did that, passed the exams, got the internship, got the job, and then had this moment of what am I doing here? I got into a car accident. And we walked out of like miraculously. The car flipped two times, landed on its wheels. Isn't that crazy? And we walked out. I had a bloody nose, and that was the only injury. And I just remember being in the hospital, they were just checking because it was a crazy car accident. And just thinking, wow, if I had died and that's what I left behind, oh my gosh, that's terrifying. And so from that moment on, I was just like, this something here is so deeply wrong. I kind of just came to this realization early on, I don't know who I am. Outside of achieving to get validation and to be impressive to other people, I don't know who I am. There's a lack of purpose, fulfillment, connection, and just like how to untangle that. That snowballed over the years of my own healing into realizing I want to leave and start working for myself and started coaching. When I started coaching, it's when I learned about the nervous system because my whole life I was this high achiever, always able to get shit done. And I go out on my own and suddenly I'm finding myself just shutting down, not able to get things done. That was the first time I really understood what dysregulation is, even though I'd been living in it for a while, but in a more intense way. And so, yeah, that's when I went deep into the nervous system, realized that's what my clients are missing. That's why they're not getting the results. They read all the books, they listen to the podcasts.

Stress Signals And Self Sabotage

Alex 3:51

Seven years into working for myself, and yeah, that's how I got here. Amazing. That's so coincidental. Last night I was speaking to a friend and he's in a very high-intensity job. He hasn't had a holiday in four years. And he's young, too. We were speaking, and he was telling me, Alex, I don't know why, but as of lately, everybody I'm around, I find instantly I'm annoyed. And he was like, I was trying to like inner reflect, is it me? What am I doing wrong? Why are these people agitating me so easily? And I was like, honestly, I don't think you've had a holiday in four years, and your body is living in such stress and anxiety that it's not able to regulate itself. You're basically finding these people annoying because, you know, you're struggling internally. 100%. You were living in that chaotic function and pattern for so long. You didn't even know it's normal.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Exactly. Like it's so funny, right? Like I only realized when I shut down. But looking back, I just lived in the exact state he's describing. Just like constantly go, constantly the next achievement. Your nervous system is going to keep getting louder to try to get your attention. And that's where self-sabotage, which I think is really misunderstood, everyone's annoying you, you're getting heated, temper, you're shutting down, you're not getting shit done. Like your nervous system's trying to say something. And yeah, for the longest time I didn't understand what it was saying.

Alex 5:18

Oh, wow. So whenever you started getting into different spiritual practices, was the nervous system the most interesting to you?

What The Nervous System Does

SPEAKER_01 5:27

So yeah, I mostly work with, so I tend to work with like a lot of high achievers. That's executives, leaders, highly ambitious women, or just people who know they're capable but feel like they're hitting a ceiling. And I work through the lens of the nervous system. So, yes, like I incorporate things like breath work, which I think is a little bit more on the spiritual end of the nervous system toolbox. Yeah. But mostly it's all the tools that go into regulating your nervous system, which really is slow, gradual work. There's no one tool, right? Like I love breath work and I think that could be such a beautiful spiritual experience. And I will say, as you start to regulate your nervous system and heal, because I think those two things go hand in hand, you do get more access to a more spiritual part of yourself. Whatever spirituality means to you, it might just mean connection with something bigger, connection with people. But really, it's all about reconnecting with what's possible for you by making sure we're working with the nervous system instead of against it, which is like how I lived most of my life until I found this work.

Alex 6:25

The month of March, we're talking about reinvention, renewal, and nervous system is a big part of that process. If they're beginning this journey and breaking it down into the basics, what is the nervous system and how does it influence the way we respond to stress, opportunities, relationship, and change in our bodies? Oh my gosh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

It's just such a good question. There's so much packed into it. I think people oversimplify the nervous system and are honestly like my big pet peeve right now is I think people are really misunderstanding nervous system work because it's become a little buzzy in the last couple of years.

Alex 6:58

Thousand percent all over TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

How everyone like your nervous system. And everyone's giving these like little hacks and tips, and that's not actually regulating. But let me explain what the nervous system is before I go off on my little nervous system pet peeve rant. So, a couple of things to know about the nervous system that I think are going to be helpful in our conversation, or for anyone listening who's looking to reinvent. So, one is that the nervous system is always unconsciously scanning. It's the system in your body that's unconsciously scanning at all times and it's trying to understand what is safe and what is not. And depending on that read that it's doing unconsciously, it is deciding whether you should move towards something or move away from it. Now, that includes opportunities, that includes people, includes emotions, desires, just possibilities for your life. It is doing this read and unconsciously moving you away and moving towards without you ever knowing it. And what's hard for most people to understand is that this read is based on the fact that safety is not necessarily what's best for your health or your bank account or your growth. Safety to your nervous system is what's familiar. Like what has happened to you in the past that you've survived. If you're here, which we both are, we've survived. So whatever happened in our past is familiar and your nervous system will be drawn to that. And at the same time, like it's scanning for safety or danger, right? Danger is not necessarily what's unsafe physically or emotionally. It might also be something that reminds your nervous system of something that was unsafe in your past. Maybe you had a painful experience with a partner, something happened with your parents, driving. Your nervous system remembers these if you didn't fully process those events and it holds on to them. And if it reminds your nervous system of that, your nervous system is going to label that as danger and move you away from it. Meaning sometimes you walk into a room and you have this feeling like something is off, even though there's nothing happening, that's your nervous system picking up on something. It might be the way the light is hitting something, it might be that person's facial expression. You are not going to be aware of it, but your nervous system is picking it up and pulling you back. And so that's one piece that I want people to know. And the second piece that I think is important when we're talking about reinvention and creating new opportunities, moving towards new opportunities, is there's three states to the nervous system. Now, I think most people just know what your friend was saying. This like high intensity, a lot of activation, right? Stresse. But there's two other states. So there is that, just the fight or flight, lots of intensity, lots of mobilization. Your body's basically preparing to fight a tiger because our body's primitive that way. There's also a dorsal state, which is your body trying to keep you safe, not by running and fighting, by actually becoming immobilized. This is when you're shutting down. This is when you're procrastinating, when you're going into freeze mode, disassociation. That's actually your body trying to keep you safe. It's saying, hey, we tried to run from the tiger.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah.

Fight Flight Freeze And Connection

SPEAKER_01 9:58

We didn't make it. So we're just gonna play dead and decrease our sensitivity to pain. If we're gonna die, I don't want to feel it. So that's your body protecting you by becoming immobilized. So those two people are semi-familiar with, but there's a third state, and that's a state of safety. We call it ventral vagal. And in that state, it's not that you're just like perfectly calm. You're not suddenly a monk. It's a state where you're staying safe by being connected. It's a state of connection. So connection to yourself, to your body, to other people. Maybe there's a higher power in that for you, maybe not. But it's a state of connection. And it's only from that state that we can actually create a new reality for ourselves. We can keep surviving. We could maintain. So survival and maintenance, sure, we can do that, which is why I could have stayed at that job. Your friend could stay where he's at. He'll survive. But are we going to thrive? Are we going to create a new reality and step into this next version, next level? No, that could only happen from that state of safety, because it's only in that state of safety and connection where there's options, there's possibilities. You could make choices. In the others, you're not really choosing. You think you're choosing, but you're just running on old programming, the repetitive pattern. That's where that's all happening, where you're like, why am I doing all the things? Why am I reading the books, doing all the work? And yet my life continues to remain the same, or I pick the same romantic partner, or I keep sabotaging myself in my career.

Alex 11:23

Is the nervous system similar to your intuition? Ooh, good question.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

It's actually not similar. Your nervous system is what's going to determine whether you can get access to your intuition.

Alex 11:36

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I always, yeah, this is like a really good question because people often ask me, and this is probably your thinking too, like, how do I know if it's my intuition telling me this guy is wrong for me or right for me? Or my nervous system, right? Because in my nervous system saying he's familiar, he's dangerous. So here's how I encourage people to think about it. Your nervous system, the dysregulation, is super fast and it's very loud. Your intuition is very subtle and it's very quiet. Your intuition is that authentic part of yourself that we can only access in ventral. Remember how I said ventral is that connection to self and others? You could only access your intuition, that like most authentic, highest version of yourself in that regulated state.

Alex 12:18

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I've thought that the strongest gift is my intuition. But a lot of the things that you said, I always thought it was my intuition. Walking into a room and feeling off about something, or somebody makes a face and you get this little feeling. And I'm like, is it my intuition or is it my nervous system?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah. That's like the million-dollar question. And the way I encourage my clients to think about it. We first need to understand the states of our nervous system and how they come alive in our body. So once you start getting good at, oh, this is that sympathetic fight or flight, the sensation of it and observing it and understanding how it's distorting your reality. Once you could observe it and then move out of it, then you start to notice the nuance between intuition is really subtle and quiet. So yeah, if you're in that regulated state, feeling really good, really present, really connected, and you just pick up on something and it just subtle and it hits and then disappears, it likely was your intuition. But if you're coming in dysregulated or you're seeing a person who you have these experiences with, or they remind you of someone, and now your whole body's activated and starting to get loud, that's likely not your intuition. But figuring out the difference between the two lies in getting back into your body and understanding the nuances of those sensations. Because again, intuition is your greatest gift and it's going to be so subtle and quiet. And pulling it apart from the loud survival mechanisms, we're refining that throughout our lives. But it's a really important skill.

Alex 13:53

So does your nervous system change day to day and the stages that it's in?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yes.

Alex 13:59

And that's why regulation is so important, right? On a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

And so the imagery we often use when we're thinking of the nervous system and these three states is think of a ladder with three rungs. And at the top of the ladder, that's where you're in ventral, you're connected, you're feeling good, right? You're regulated, built, connect. In the middle is that sympathetic fight or flight. And at the bottom is that dorsal shut down, don't have energy, procrastinating, can't follow through, just like a hopeless sense, right? And we're moving up and down this ladder all day. So another misconception. The goal is not to be perfectly in ventral all day long. Your nervous system's there to protect you.

Alex 14:37

Yeah, I feel all three of those things throughout the day. And that's actually not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

The only thing we want to be looking for is their flexibility. Like, are you getting stuck in one or are you not ever able to get to that ventral? Because the truth is, we want to be able to move flexibly up and down that ladder in ways that are appropriate. You might be walking down the street and it's dark, or there's an alleyway, or there's someone, and you get a little activated. That's your nervous system keeping you safe. We want you to have access to that. But then you get into a conversation like this and you want to be your most authentic self. So we want you to have that ability to move up into that ventral where you can connect with your guests and be really present. It's really about the movement up and down, understanding how each state feels in your body and how each state distorts your perception of reality because the dysregulation does distort reality in an attempt to keep you safe.

Alex 15:30

Yeah. I have struggled with is I've found this as a negative thing, is once somebody shows me who they really are, shows me their character, now that I don't feel safe with you, you're gonna get a different version of me. Absolutely. And so, with that being said, in certain environments, is it bad to have those different versions? It's not being unauthentic, but you're just not letting somebody get as close to you because it does dysregulate your nervous system.

Intuition Versus Nervous System Noise

SPEAKER_01 16:02

100%. So I think what you're saying is actually really beautiful and really healthy. And it's that discernment, right? If someone was unsafe to you, even just emotionally, just wasn't a safe place to hold your emotions or your desires or your dreams, for you to pull away, which is all you're saying, right? Remember, the nervous system is helping us understand do I move towards or do I move away? And we're constantly doing that dance. Even in a conversation like this, there's like little movements, but it's actually really healthy to be able to intentionally say, Yeah, actually, this is healthy for me to pull back. That's not a bad thing. That's not you blocking your most authentic self. That's you protecting yourself, setting healthy boundaries, saying no. And I would actually argue that in order to be able to regulate, and I think this is like a piece that gets skipped over often, we need to be able to set boundaries. We need to be able to say no. We need to be able to pull away without shame, without judgment, because that's what makes it feel safe for us with the right people to really lean in. If I don't can't trust my no, I can't really say yes. If my no isn't authentic, I can't really say yes.

Alex 17:07

Yeah. And so that's actually really important and really healthy. Boundaries in society these days has such a negative connotation, or it's just some gimmick word that's used. What is your advice for setting boundaries? Someone that is feeling dysregulated on the daily and they're scared to set boundaries. How should somebody set a healthy boundary?

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I think a lot of people to that answer want, what's the right thing to say? Tell me the tip, tell me the hack. Tell me if I just do it this way, it's gonna work. And I always have to be like, I'm not gonna be the person to give you the hack because I don't think there's a hack. Because what I would say is we need to take it a step back. So if you're setting boundaries and you're noticing those fears come up, fears of judgment or rejection or abandonment when you're doing that, it's really a beautiful opportunity to be like, oh, my nervous system is getting activated because something about this doesn't feel safe. And that's likely a sign that in my past, it was not safe to set boundaries. I probably would be rejected or I would be abandoned. It's your nervous system communicating to you. And that communication is likely not about the person in front of you. It's likely about your past experiences and how your nervous system is projecting the past onto the present. It's likely something happened in your past to make it unsafe to say no or to cancel or to set that boundary. And now your nervous system is assuming it's going to be dangerous again. And if we can get curious about that, understand how this is actually our nervous system trying to protect us. Even not setting a boundary is your nervous system trying to protect you because when we were children, rejection or abandonment is the scariest thing to a child. The child needs connection to survive. And so your nervous system learned to adapt by not saying no, by not setting the boundary and getting curious about that and seeing the brilliance in it and seeing, oh, something happened to me and I could actually have compassion for that versus judge or shame opens up the door to rewiring that, to getting curious about what is it I needed back then that I didn't get.

Alex 19:14

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So, do you do a lot of inner child work with your clients?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

I do. We have many different parts. None of us are cohesive selves. So I definitely do that and some somatic work to help you integrate those things because that's the thing about rewiring the nervous system. If you just keep pushing through and setting boundaries, you will get better at it. But you're likely not resolving what is driving you to struggle with setting boundaries, and they will likely show up elsewhere. Or you're missing an opportunity for some powerful deep healing. Like when we're triggered, struggling to set a boundary, it's an opportunity for really deep healing, which then opens up a lot of doors for reinvention, creating a different life for yourself. I find that most of us are missing these opportunities because we just want the quick thing. Tell me the thing to do to just set the boundary or not feel this way. And we're missing an opportunity for deep healing because those triggers are opportunities to really understand what is happening in our nervous system and to rewire it on a deep fundamental level so that we actually have other opportunities and possibilities begin to open for us.

The Nervous System Ladder Daily

Alex 20:18

It's so true. I've done a lot of inner child work and therapy, even like Reiki and a few other different things where I've had to address things of the past. I didn't realize that it was so deeply rooted in my childhood and different feelings that I felt. Like, yes, I remembered some of the experiences, but I had to really dig deep into the experiences to feel that emotion. And so that was the difference of your parents can get a divorce when you're 10 years old. And of course, that experience is a traumatic, but what did you feel when they were getting a divorce and the feelings that also came after that as a result?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

And I will even take it like half a step deeper because you're 100% right. It's not about what happened, it's not about intellectually understanding. Cause I think so many of us understand intellectually what's happening to us, but that's not the same as actually feeling it. And what I was going to add is yes, it's feeling that emotion, but it's also allowing those emotions and that activation that you felt back then that didn't get to be fully completed and processed to be completed. And because even though you might know about those things that happened in the past or the divorce or how you felt, your body might still be holding on to some of those emotions because it didn't get to feel safe fully in the moment to feel them. And those things are coming up as triggers or as patterns, not just to mess up your day, but because those emotions that are stored in the body, because trauma is stored in our body, are trying to come up to be. Resolved for those cycles of emotion to complete themselves. Like the simplest way to explain it is if you think about like animals in the wild don't get trauma, even though they have much crazier lives than we do. If you think about it, a zebra gets almost killed by a lion all the time, right? And is being chased and it might get hurt and it might fall. It doesn't get traumatized, stuck, and paralyzed. It sees the lion, it runs, it tries to escape. Maybe it gets momentarily caught and goes into that dorsal collapse. Then maybe the lion looks away thinking it's dead. The zebra gets back up, it runs, and then it will go off to the side and shake off the excess energy.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Because it's allowing that emotional cycle to complete itself, that activation, it's allowing it to completely be released. Dogs do it too. Bird flies into a window, it will need to shake off what happened, that energy in the body, and then it will go back and nothing ever happened.

Alex 22:54

Oh, interesting.

Boundaries As A Regulation Skill

SPEAKER_01 22:55

So it's the same for humans. We store that in our body because we don't allow it to be processed in the moment. So part of the work is feeling that emotion, but also allowing what's incomplete to be completed on a felt sense level. So that's also part of the work that I do parts work, inner child work, but also the somatic work of letting your body complete those cycles, which is like when you were coughing and you're like, oh my gosh, is this my body? Those kind of little things come up often. Certain things are mentioned and your foot starts shaking, or if your body starts doing something weird, even though you're more or less fine, that's your body being like, oh, something about this is getting activated. Something about this is incomplete for me.

Alex 23:35

So if somebody's an avoidant and they don't process their emotions, they avoid feelings. The honest truth is we all do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Like avoidance and those of us that lean more anxiously attached, even think of the modern world. It's created for us to be really good at avoiding things, intellectualizing, going on social media, you name it. The world is created to be quite addictive to allow us to distract. And so you're right. That does then get stored in the body. And that is where the self-sabotage starts to come up really intensely. We're like, I don't know why this is happening. It's because we've been suppressing things that need to be processed. How do you actually do that? There's small ways, even on a daily basis, even starting to carve out a few minutes of being in your body or being alone with your thoughts. It could just be journaling, it could be just sitting and noticing sensations in your body. It's really about getting comfortable being in your body or hearing your thoughts. I remember there was one point in my life, right before I had that quarter life crisis, where I would be at work and then I'd be going to run out to get lunch and I would have headphones listening to a podcast. I would always have another input. I would be talking to someone, I would be going somewhere. And that's all avoidance, right? Of not allowing anything to actually be processed. So starting to carve out time to just be able to be with yourself, even on a walk without a podcast. Those little moments are really great starting point. What I will say is those deeper emotions, the things that happened to us in our childhood, we often need someone else's presence to help us process those. I think we're like in a with so much information available to us. I think a lot of us are getting the messaging that, like, if you just read enough or learn enough, you could just do it on your own. And the truth is, biologically, we are wired for connection. We get traumatized with other people and we heal with other people. And so there are certain situations, traumas that really require another person holding that space so that you don't get overwhelmed by it. And that actually helps you build the capacity to process your emotions because that's really what it's about. When it comes to the nervous system and rewiring your nervous system, recalibrating it, it's not about constantly pushing away anything that triggers you. It's actually building the capacity to hold more stress, but also to hold more emotions, to be in your body more, to be able to sit with discomfort more. And we start to do that gradually. And there's so many things we can do on our own throughout the day. And we likely need other people earlier in our journey or at difficult times in our journey or just extra stressful times in our journey to hold that space for us so that we could process those emotions from the past without them overwhelming us. Cause that's what often happens. People start processing those things that happened to them in their childhood, but it actually overwhelms them again, making them more avoidant. And sometimes that even happens with another person, but that's an important piece of it when it comes to building that capacity.

Alex 26:34

And I think there's such importance around solitude, being able to be by yourself, feel comfortable and at ease. But there's also the flip side of that where you can recluse into this hole and you're overly comfortable being by yourself. And so, how do you find a happy medium? And does that tune in with your nervous system?

Inner Child And Somatic Completion

SPEAKER_01 26:56

It does. It very much does. And which direction? There's absolutely two extremes. And I think we get information, protect your peace or spend time alone. And the part of us that can only regulate alone is great, I'm gonna do that forever. There are these two extremes. And so our nervous system determines which extreme we go to. Some of us feel safer alone because we've been hurt with other people. And so solitude is our comfort zone. Healing is going to look like moving away from that comfort zone and moving towards connection because a healthy nervous system, nervous system work in general, I really like to think of it as the conflicting emotions. It's sitting in the both, right? I can be alone and I can be with others. I could be connected to myself and connected to a partner. It's sitting with those contradictions. And I think it's understanding which way you lean. Is your comfort zone that more avoidant way of regulating? If so, your healing journey is going to require leaning into support, leaning into connection, allowing other people to hold space for you, being more vulnerable, doing that slowly and gradually so your system doesn't get overwhelmed and with safe people. That's important. Yeah. But that's what it's going to look like. And if you lean the other way, if you always need to be with other people, it's building a tolerance for being able to be alone. But the goal is for us to be able to do both, to have that range versus feeling like I could only do this, I need to be alone. That's dysregulation. That's your trauma. Anything that is making your life smaller, giving you less options, that's not healthy.

Alex 28:33

Yeah. And on the opposite end, if you're always with people, then you're just avoiding your nervous system completely.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Is that you're avoiding having to deal with your body, feeling your emotions? Exactly. It's really just whether you're avoidant or anxious, is just how you learned to regulate and stay safe as a child. That was just the blueprint of what felt safe to you. Our nervous systems are brilliant. They're customized to our unique lived experience. It's just that at some point they become our ceiling or our limit. And I think that's where like you're bringing this work in of I really want to step into something new, reinvention, your nervous system is going to be that ceiling. It's going to be the limitation. It's what kept you safe, but it won't take you to the next level if you don't expand that capacity.

Alex 29:16

So how do you get to the next level? By regulating your nervous system.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

The first step, I think this is a step that people miss. So I really like to kind of like talk about it, is not rewiring, it's befriending. So I think of this work as three phases: befriend, rewire, integrate. People want to jump into rewire. Give me the tools, get the hacks, change me, fix me. I want to be different. Yeah. If you jump into that, you're in re-traumatizing yourself. You're just saying the way I am is broken. I'm not enough. And you're trying to run away from yourself. You're just using wellness to do it, but it's the same pattern.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

So the first step needs to be befriending. It needs to be getting curious about these patterns, be it not being able to set boundaries or picking the wrong type of partner or procrastinating on that business, getting curious about those patterns and how they served your nervous system and where they're rooted from. And that curiosity moving you into compassion. Not just like an intellectual understanding, oh, this happened in my past, my parents were like this, that's why I do that, but moving into having compassion, really understanding the brilliance of these coping mechanisms on a felt sense. That's going to shift your relationship with yourself. You need to shift how you relate to yourself. And from there, then we move into expanding your capacity. So the first step is befriending. The second step is rewiring. And that's where we expand your capacity. But the key there is to do it gradually. So think of the gym. When you go to the gym, you don't just lift as heavy as humanly possible. You start small and incrementally go heavier and heavier.

Alex 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

We want to think about building nervous assistance capacity exactly the same way. So slowly, gradually familiarizing yourself with those things that have been in the past really uncomfortable or really hard. And then letting your system rest, feel supported, and process it, and then continuing to like slowly your expand your capacity to hold more so that you could hold bigger dreams, bigger goals, or or the work that it takes to get there. That's so relatable.

Alex 31:21

Because I feel like I've gone through the first phase. Everyone still has work to do. But for me, hearing you talk about the second phase, I feel like that's the place that I'm at. And there's been times where I'm going, but also working on regulating my nervous system to a point where I'm like, okay, now I'm exhausted. How do I regulate it in a way that's step by step and not just instinct everybody wants that in today's society? And so just learning that it's a slow process, but I feel like I've come a little bit of a way. And the positive way.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah, letting yourself take that in because you likely have come further than you think. That is the piece of it. It's gradual and it's very much a process of expansions and contractions, meaning the hard parts, the parts where you feel like you're failing, you're doing it wrong, you're falling back into old patterns. It's how you handle those moments and how you get support in those moments that leads to another expansion. And that expansion where you're doing great, you feel like you're killing it, you're stretching, it's going to lead to a contraction. It's this constant process. Each contraction leads to a bigger and bigger expansion. So you're going to keep coming upon struggles, pain points, and tensions. And those are actually your biggest opportunities for growth, but it's the place where most people quit or they think they're failing, or they think they need to do more. So understanding where you are and how to pull back from that. Because I think that's what you're describing, becomes like a tricky piece where you're like, I'm doing so much and I'm proud of myself, but then I'm like regulating too much or not enough and struggling to understand that. Figuring that out is the key and getting support in that makes a huge difference in that season specifically, because it is confusing.

Alex 33:16

I totally really're going from one extreme to another. So for me personally, I've always been a very social person. I love being around friends. I've never had a problem, though, being alone. As of recently, going through this phase, I've felt as though I get emotionally drained now. If I'm out and have two meetings, three meetings after I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to go home and just be alone for a little bit of time. Is that healthy or is it unhealthy? And it's up to the person. Yeah, could I ask you some questions about it?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Of course. Okay, so you don't need to get too specific about what it is you're working on. But is it possible that what you're working on is becoming more attuned to your body and your needs? Is that part of what you're working on?

Solitude Versus Avoidance And Connection

Alex 34:07

I I can use the podcast as an example for because it's probably more relatable to people. But if I'm sitting down and I'm having a talk with somebody for two and a half hours, and then before this, I went to a little event. Probably after this conversation, I'm gonna be like, okay, I need to go home and just sit for 30 minutes or even take like a 10 minute nap. And then I get up, I'll have some coffee, and then I'll start doing the rest of my work or I'll go work out. Is that and before you would just be able to power through? Yeah, before I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna do a little bit of work, I'm gonna get ready, I'm gonna go out to dinner with friends, what you've been working on, like in your personal growth.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

I mean, one thing you mentioned to me before the podcast, I hope it's okay if I mention it, but you were you were saying vulnerability is something you've been working on. Is that part of it? Or what would you say you've been working on before in that befriending phase? Is it vulnerability? Is it understanding your needs? Is it being more authentic? What was the thing you've been working on?

Alex 35:07

How would you put that into words? I feel like it's understanding my needs and just listening to myself. So it's sound boundaries. Safety's a big thing to me as well. I mentioned earlier, I've been burned a lot. So if I see something in a friendship, a relationship that triggers me immediately, I will completely shut down and put up a wall.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

And in the past, would you just allow those things to continue happening, allow yourself to get burned or someone to mistreat you? Yeah. So what I hear happening, sorry to ask so many questions, but I wanted to understand it. What I hear happening is you're working on being more attuned to your body, hearing your needs, understanding what safety feels like on a felt sense. Of course, your body's going to be more sensitive. Your body's doing the very thing you want it to do. It's much more attuned to your energy, it's much more attuned to your needs, it's much more attuned to how people around you are treating you or how much energy they are taking. And that sensitivity that you're feeling, like my clients are often like, oh, I'm becoming more sensitive. That sensitivity is actually like a telltale sign that you're healing because you're reinstating that connection with yourself. And yes, I might seem, oh, but I was so energetic and I get so much shit done. But actually getting shit done was overriding your needs and your body's way of communicating with you. And it sounds like you're not doing that as much. And that's why you're taking a nap or you're saying no, or you're needing to take a break.

Alex 36:39

Yeah, a thousand percent. It's funny that you said sensitive. Somebody who was like, You're so sensitive. Why are you so sensitive? And I took it as a compliment because I was like, if you had met me two years ago, even me now, people are like, I don't know how to read you. You're very hard to read, you don't really show emotion. And so I'm like, thank you for calling me sensitive, because I would have never been called that growing up.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

That's such a huge win. Even the fact that you were able to hear that and say thanks is that's the telltale sign that it's healthy. That's the telltale sign of, oh my gosh, that's healing in action. And I do think part of the journey that people struggle with is as they change, the thing they saw as their superpower. I could power through and no one gets through to me, feels like it gets taken away. But there is a little bit of that trade-off. Now, long term, what you'll notice is you're going to have more energy. I think at first we become more protective of ourselves and more tuned and more sensitive. But as you keep going on this journey, you'll notice that you'll be setting boundaries easily, or you'll be saying no so easily. You probably will be able to do more. But in the short term, it feels like that thing that's our superpower is taken away, but it was because it was a trauma response. Like powering through the high achiever, the person I was, that was a trauma response. That wasn't a strength, that boss babe kind of energy, trauma response. One, it can build you a really nice life, but that life will feel empty or it's missing something, or like it has a ceiling emotionally. And I feel like you're expanding that for yourself. Thank you.

Alex 38:16

Emotional regulation as you go through this, you unfortunately are gonna lose some friends, but you're gonna have new friends that align with what you're going towards. So even in dating as well, if you see a consistent pattern of red flags and you're like, oh, these people aren't even interesting to me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

At first, people start out always dating the same type of men. They think it's different, but each time to get into the relationship, it ends up being exactly the same. In the beginning, they want to be attracted to different men, but that they find that they're not. A telltale sign of healing is that suddenly you find yourself attracted to men that maybe in the past would have seemed boring or would have seemed like too much, but suddenly you feel more open to that. And the other type of guys, yeah, they're going to become less interesting. Early in your journey, there is still a high from going down that path because it's gonna feel familiar and maybe it was a little bit more of a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah.

Befriend Rewire Integrate Your Patterns

SPEAKER_01 39:12

But it is the slow progression to suddenly I'm open to different types of people and I'm actually drawn to them and I feel safe with them. I see a lot of the times my clients, often women, say like they want a man who's more emotionally attuned, safe and present with them. And then when they're on a date with that person, they make them feel very uncomfortable and they're like, no, this is too much. They're calling me, they're interested in me. Why are they interested in me? Yeah. This doesn't make sense. And as they start to do this work, it starts to feel more natural to them. They're able to be a little bit more present because, in some ways, I think the type of men they're wanting to date are mirroring the work they're doing within themselves. They're able to be a little more present, they're able to be a little more vulnerable, they're able to lean in a little bit more or to communicate their needs. And so those men become more interesting or just become an option. Whereas before they would be so triggering that they wouldn't even go in that direction. They'd be like, this is too much. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, what you want, and this is true of a man or a life or a career. When it's in front of you, if your nervous system doesn't have the capacity to hold it, it's triggering and you find yourself running in the other direction and making up excuses because your nervous system will distort reality to protect you.

Alex 40:24

Yeah, interesting. So if you're dating somebody, they have qualities on paper that I want. But when he's in front of me, you're like, do I want it? I think there's like a few layers here. People like manifest, they write down their dream guy. He has a great career, he's emotionally stable. The gentleman, he puts you first, and then the guys in front of him. And maybe they're like not as physically attracted to him, but they have all the qualities that they put on their manifestation list. But then they're trying to find the littlest thing wrong with him to be like, maybe he's not for me. Is that your nervous system trying to work itself out?

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Sometimes we create goals or want to manifest from a dysregulated place. So the things we're writing are not truly authentic to us. Now, let's say you do have a manifestation list for your person that is genuine, like deeply authentic to who you are, and then you're in front of that person and you're like looking for something wrong. That is a sign that your nervous system can't yet hold what it is you desire. And that's not necessarily a bad thing because you being on that date is your opportunity to expand it. This happens often. Like they come in working on one thing, their capacity starts to expand, they're dating different types of people now, and it's exciting. And yet a couple of dates in, their nervous system starts freaking out. This is too much. He's present with me and he's interested in me, he's reaching out, he's so kind. It starts to get triggered and they're looking for ways out or nitpicking. We often talk about how do we help you cultivate safety? Like you might need a little more space, you might need to set some boundaries, but how do we support your nervous system if this person is safe and aligned? But if it is, how do we give your nervous system extra support for you to lean in a couple of percent more to familiarize yourself with this? So it might require going slower than they're used to. It might require communicating, almost always communicating more than they're used to. And what's interesting in that process of helping their nervous system get familiar with what they really desire, they're actually doing the deeper work, right? They're communicating their needs, they're feeling into their body, they're getting curious. And so even the process of dating becomes an opportunity to heal. And even if that person wasn't the one, like maybe they were great on paper, but there was genuinely something missing, they still use that person, that opportunity to expand what's possible for them. And that makes them that much more ready for that next person to come in.

Sensitivity As Proof Of Healing

Alex 42:50

A thousand percent. That's so interesting, too. Manifesting from a dysregulated pl place. Nobody talks about the nervous system aspect of it, which is such a game changer because if you're manifesting from a dysregulated place, then you're probably just writing down what society tells you that you want.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

I think a lot of people think it's like doing the right like mindset work. But it doesn't matter if you're writing the right affirmations or creating the right vision boards if your nervous system is dysregulated. If your nervous system is in a state of protection, which is in a state of pushing away, how are you going to receive the things that you want? Your nervous system is telling universal this is not safe. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that affirmation. That's not changing how you actually feel in your body about the thing that you desire. And even just the wording, right? Like I often think to my goals and things I wanted to manifest before I started doing this work. And you're right, they were based on society, on my conditioning, on my traumas that I had in my childhood, right? Like coming here as an immigrant and things I saw my parents go through. I was manifesting that. That's why I chose that career. It wasn't because it was authentic. To me. I didn't even understand what authentic to me was. I didn't have access to that. But when we have access to that authentic part of ourselves, what we want change, but our ability to receive it completely changes.

Alex 44:12

Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why they say whenever you manifest, you really need to feel it in your body, because that's your nervous system actually believing it and receiving it. That's it, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

And the thing like to keep in mind is people always say this to me, they're like, what does that mean? Feel it. Because the truth is, you might say, I want this incredible loving partner. But if your nervous system has experiences with emotionally unavailable men or abusive men or has seen abuse or has seen broken relationships, what you desire is not safe to your nervous system. And so your nervous system is going to push it away. So you could tell yourself to feel it all you want, or you might have little moments where you could connect to that authentic self. But if for the most part your conditioning, your wiring says men are not safe, relationships are not safe. They won't last. Whatever that narrative might be, no amount of mindset work or affirmations or vision boards can override that.

Alex 45:11

So the the way to really feel it is to process why you aren't able to, whether it's from a past childhood event or situation. Yes. And then you'll be able to really feel it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Process those emotions, understand them, develop compassion, right? There's a curiosity and there's compassion. Feel it. Then you let your body complete what is not complete, right? Which is where some of that somatic work comes in. And that's when we could actually feel that true authentic desire. We're wired for a connection. But often things happen in our life that make connection feel incredibly unsafe. And our nervous system will always choose safety over growth, over health, over over love, over anything.

Alex 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

That's why, like at the end of the day, so foundational.

Alex 45:58

So for people that are doing it and they have these little moments, but it's not a consistent feeling that they're getting. What does that feel like? How do they differentiate? Is this a temporary feeling? Is this a feeling that's now embedded in my nervous system? So the first thing I would say is getting familiar with ventral.

Dating With A Nervous System Lens

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Like it really goes back to the basics. Like I feel like everyone wants like the advanced stuff, but the basics is where the magic is. And so the basics is understanding these different states and how they feel in your body. So what I'd want people to do is start to familiarize themselves with what ventral feels like in their body. What ventral feels like to you and to me is going to be different. It might come alive differently. For you, it might come alive as a visual memory or movement in your body. For me, it might be more of a sensation. Things come alive differently. How does it do that? We need to familiarize. For me, there's like an expanded energy. Let me try to put into words. When I feel ventral, when I feel regulated, there's a sense of possibility and there's an openness, whether it be my chest or my body, there's a presence. Colors feel a little bit more vivid. I have access, I notice the sounds around me, little details a little bit more. There's the sense of not that everything is perfect. I'm not saying this like the happiest moments. It's just the sense of I can do this. It's gonna be okay. I could figure this out. I can trust myself. It's categorized by this sense of just hope and possibility, even if things are not great, even if I'm processing some hard stuff. This, oh, it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna figure it out. There's an internal peace, even when the external is not always peaceful. There's a 19-month-old running around. It's not always peaceful for me these days, but I could still access that. So that's kind of like my ventral. Can you think of a moment you were ventral? How it felt to you based on my explanation of ventral. Does anything come up for you?

Alex 47:54

I feel like right now. Yeah. And it's when I'm around certain people too. Like I said earlier, safety is a huge thing for me. And it's something that, again, stems back from honestly, not even childhood experiences that I've gone through as an adult as well. Before I thought it was my intuition of feeling safe around a person and feeling calm. But I guess it is my nervous system being in that ventral stage. But the way it feels for me is just I'm not overthinking, my mind's not racing because I have ADD. So I'm always thinking about new things, what I need to do, what's next. And so being able to put my mind at ease and feel grounding, calmness and almost stillness, too. Because I always want to be going. And so to be like, I feel fine sitting here. I not thinking about where I need to be next, really soaking it in and also positive self-talk. No matter what happens, it's gonna be okay. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I relate to that so much. Yeah, because again, like I mentioned on the podcast a couple weeks ago, I've been really working on procrastination and negative self-talk. Having those moments where it's if you might fail, this business might fail, this friendship might not work out. But it's gonna be okay. It's all gonna work out.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

I I love what you just said because I I relate to it so much. You said you were working on negative self-talk and procrastination. And something I point out to people is when you're regulated, the negative self-talk goes away. Negative self-talk and procrastination are both symptoms of a dysregulated nervous system. So it's not necessarily something to fix as much as if I could just get to a more regulated state, it tends to go away. I love pointing out to people how different they feel in ventral and how that's the most authentic you. Like you said, you know, I thought my intuition was my gift. I think it is, because when you feel safe, you do feel your intuition. And I think that is your gift. It's just you could only really feel it when you're in that regulated state. What you're feeling now, you felt a billion times, but there's probably a something unique about getting to verbalize it and slow down and feel it, especially in the midst of recording a podcast and doing your job, that really lets it sink in because you're making it explicit, you're making it conscious.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

And now your brain is saying, oh, this is something to look for. This is how she feels. Let's look for these moments and let's deepen into them.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

So that's what I would say. Familiarize yourself with the ventral feels like, notice those moments and become an expert at catching them and deepening into them, even if it's 30 seconds, that alone makes a difference.

Alex 50:39

Me being talking to you right now and being in that state. And then I go out into the world or I go hang out with friends and I feel dysregulated and I'm not in my ventral. Is that something that should be a red flag to me? How do you differentiate the two of not everybody is gonna make you feel in that state? I would have to say that.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Or would you say that they should? So A, they definitely shouldn't. Yeah. And the way I would answer your question is that befriending phase that I said that I think is really important. It the goal there really is to remove the shame from our coping mechanisms, our survival strategies. And so the fact that you feel ventral here shows that your system is capable of it. And in safe moments, you're able to. That shows that your nervous system is doing its job beautifully. And the fact that you go out into the world and your nervous system gets activated isn't a bad or good thing. It is your nervous system communicating something to you. And your job is to get curious about it. And we could only access curiosity if we're not judging or shaming. And I think what a lot of us do is wanting to label it good or bad. But the second you label it, you close down that curiosity. Where it's like, what I'm curious about as you say, that is what are the environments you're going into? What is your nervous system saying about what it likes and who it feels safe with and what it doesn't like and who it doesn't feel safe with? Like I can tell, I'm from New York. I love New York. I think it's the greatest city in the world.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

I don't want to live there because now when I go back, I could see how much it dysregulates me. That's not to say that my nervous system is weak or New York is bad. It's just my nervous system saying, we're used to a different level of peace and calm these days. That's what feels good. That's where I could access my strengths, my gifts, be the kind of mother I want to be. We're in environments that are toxic or unhealthy or chaotic. And so our nervous system getting activated is brilliant. It's doing its job. Other times, we're in situations that are, like you said, like this is the dream guy. I'm 100% positive, but my nervous system is activated. In those moments, curiosity of like, what is my system communicating to me? And it might just be communicating, yeah, this is what you want, but this is really scary to us. It's really scary. And if you think about it, let's use the example of a guy and the person you've been wanting sitting right in front of you. Let's just be honest, it is scary. There is a degree of vulnerability, degree of risk there. If you met the one, like, oh my gosh, now I got to be vulnerable. Now I could risk losing this person. That's terrifying. Curious. And acknowledge those parts of yourself, not see them as broken. They're like, oh yeah, you're seeing that it's scary. Okay. And then it eases up because you're acknowledging the valid fears and concerns.

Alex 53:27

How do you take your nervous system back to a place of regulation? Is it better to acknowledge it right after it happens in that moment? So you don't internalize those emotions so deeply?

Why Mindset Alone Cannot Manifest

SPEAKER_01 53:42

So, two things. That's actually a really good nuanced question. So, in a perfect world, you would be able to process in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

But we don't live in the perfect world. This person might have just shown you that he's incredibly unsafe or toxic or problematic. If that's the case, that's not a safe environment for you to process those emotions. Think of the example of the zebra and the lion. The zebra only releases that energy once it's completely safe and it knows it's away from the lion. So that might mean putting up your wall, using your protective mechanisms to get out of there, maybe to get home or to reach out to a practitioner you work with to be in a safe space to process that. And the key to rewiring your nervous system and expanding your capacity is to not let yourself go into overwhelm because trauma happens because of overwhelm. So healing that is we're really always trying to be mindful to not overwhelm that grow slow, gradual process. So it might mean knowing for yourself, I got away from that person, I'm home. It doesn't feel safe to do this completely alone. I might need to meet up with a friend, call somebody, meet up with a practitioner. Yeah, the condition is safety, and safety is not just physical, also emotional. And understanding that a lot of the times for those really intense things, a little bit of support can go such a long way. And you're feeling that they went through a breakup, they're having trouble in their relationship. If that's going to shift how they show up for you and the advice they give you, and they can't just hold that space, which is really just being there, being a container and being in it with you versus telling you what to do. So I do think it's incredibly important who you go to in those moments. A thousand percent. Who could really stay regulated with you and give your system the space to process. Because the thing is, our systems are so brilliant. They actually want to move towards healing, but they need the right conditions to do that. Once you give the body the right condition support, it's incredible. I see my clients do. I'm like, I couldn't have done that. Only their body could have done that. Yeah. All I could do is just create the right container for it. Yeah. Our bodies are so incredible, but having that right container, that right support in that moment could make a big difference. Now, that being said, if someone you think they're going to be a safe person and they're not and they get triggered or they trigger you, that's okay. Our nervous system is just so resilient. Like just making sure you do get the right support and you address that versus being like, that was a shit show. I guess I will never talk about that again. That's what we don't want to do. As long as you get that support as soon as possible, your nervous system is going to be able to rewire itself.

Alex 56:15

If you're regulated and around somebody that is dysregulated, do you think the presence and the energy of regulation can cause tension, animosity, jealousy?

SPEAKER_01 56:30

That's an interesting question. It's contagious in both directions. Dysregulation could be contagious if you're around it and you don't know how to regulate yourself. And I also think regulation could be contagious. If you've ever had a good session with a practitioner or a friend, really regulated, you feel the benefits of it. It's interesting what you say. I've had an experience with this recently. I do think for some people, the ventral state does not feel safe because of their lived experience. Maybe they've never really been there. Maybe when they were there, bad things would happen. And so their system learned don't go there. Maybe life and circumstances just they never feel safe, be it systematically, be it in their home, in their work environment. So if that's the case, seeing people who are regulated, who are pursuing their dreams, who are living life in a different way, in a different capacity could be very triggering to them. If your system doesn't feel safe and ventral or doesn't feel like it could ever go there, that doesn't feel possible. But I do think that seeing people who are doing that will trigger you. I think social media, my gosh, this happens so much. But I'm curious, like what comes up for you?

Finding Your Ventral Safety Cues

Alex 57:44

To be honest with you, I've been in situations and settings where I can be completely regulated and I can just feel the tension. It's almost like hurt people, hurt people, and healed people, healed people. There's definitely the sense of, am I crazy? I'm doing all the work, but for some reason I feel like I've been around people that are like, oh, she's on her healing journey for maybe a week or two after. I felt super dysregulated by those situations. But then I had this moment where I was like, wait, no, why am I feeling dysregulated? I know, I know who I am. I know what I stand for, I know how I acted in that moment and that place. So why am I feeling dysregulated by them? Because what my regulation and how I responded didn't throw, you know, oh my gosh, I think this is so important.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

I'm so glad you brought this up because it's not talked about enough. And I was actually thinking about this, but I haven't talked to anyone about it. It's a really interesting topic. And as you're saying that example, because I'm like, oh my gosh, I've experienced that exact situation so much on my healing journey and different phases of my journey. It's layered, but like three different points come to mind at once. The first thought that comes to mind is you're going through this healing journey. And I will say two things. One, you're becoming more sensitive. Like I remember when I started becoming more attuned, aware, compassionate to myself, more attuned to other people's nervous system. So you're becoming more sensitive. At the same time, people around you are watching you change and that is threatening to them. We are meant to be in tribes. And anybody, us leaving the tribe or people pushing us out of the tribe is incredibly threatening to our nervous system. So for the people around you to be like, oh, she's changing, she's gonna leave us. That is going to activate them. And I would say them acting that way is going to activate you, which is what I'm guessing happened for you in those coming weeks. That's what happened for me, where I would feel like I was being excommunicated from the tribe a little bit, like I was being pushed out of the tribe. And I remember when I stopped drinking, you always get those comments like, oh, you're doing that. Yeah. That little like eye roll. And I know what I'm doing is great. I feel great about it. Yeah. But there is this feeling, you almost feel them pushing away from you. And again, I think that's so threatening to our systems because you're in a healing journey. You sit with it, you process it, you feel those feelings.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

And you come out of it stronger of being like, okay, then I will find my tribe. And like you go into that ventral place of the right people won't make me feel this way. Yeah. And often I think a lot of those people in my life have busted. Yeah. They've accepted that I'm not going anywhere. I'm just gonna be a little different, and our relationship has shifted. That's so true. That just happened to me so many times.

Alex 1:00:38

Yeah. Or even I've had experiences where they push closer. And it's me having to really practice boundaries of I can't go into certain environments with you because I get too dysregulated when I'm there and I don't feel safe. I don't feel like I can be my authentic self and I just I feel off. And so I've had to be like, sorry, I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Is that like an intuitive feeling for you? Is that like a gut feeling? Sometimes, as you're becoming more regulated and healing, some people are drawn to you because they want to be around that energy. And I think the hard part is understanding who are the people you need to say no to. When you get into a more regulated state and become more attuned, there's like a veil that's lifted and you see the world around you so differently. And I think in the early years, that was a hard thing because it felt really isolating. Suddenly, the people you called best friends are not. You can't have conversations with people. Sometimes people annoy you or it feels really shallow. You come out of it, but those early years are really important. They're like a little bit of a dark night of the soul.

Processing After Triggers With Support

Alex 1:01:43

And that's what I was telling one of my friends. He was like, I just don't like having conversations that are shallow. I was like, honestly, that's not a bad thing. It's okay to want deep conversations, but you also have to be able to hold space for the day-to-day conversations that you're gonna have.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

When you first told me about your friend, I actually thought about I had that moment in between where I felt like I only wanted deep conversations. Yeah. And I think it was a sign from my nervous system that I needed a different reality. I know I was craving something more. And I'm with you. Once I did the work and regulated myself, now I could have surface level conversations. There's nothing wrong with small talk. But I think that like when everyone's annoying you, it's a sign of I want something more. And I'm not listening to my body. So my system is gonna get really loud. That'd really resonate with your friend. That's actually a strong experience that I had.

Alex 1:02:36

Could it also mean that you maybe are just around the wrong people or in the wrong environments as well? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah. 100% telling you like you are not where you need to be, and your system is gonna keep getting louder. And the thing to watch out for is if you keep trying to push past it, it will go into that dorsal. So a lot of times my high-achieving clients crash. Yeah. That was me last year. And I would hope your friend doesn't get there. I hate that happened for you. I went there too, but we want to catch it before it happens there, but it will keep getting louder until it shuts you down, like an emergency break of okay, you're not using your foot break. We're gonna pull the emergency break. And that's what dorsal is. That's what that shutdown really is. It's an emergency break on your life because you're not listening.

Alex 1:03:16

Is the next phase of dorsal depression?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

So, one way of thinking about it, if you want to look at it through this model of the nervous system, depression is getting stuck in dorsal. It's your nervous system not having the flexibility to move out of dorsal, and then dorsal becomes home. This hopeless, disconnected, disassociated, no energy. The line caught me. Like, I'm gonna die. So I'm preparing for death valogy that we're using with the animals. That's what depression is.

Alex 1:03:42

So that's why sometimes people just go into this sleep mode.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Exactly. It's a protective mechanism. Like sympathetic is we stay safe through action. I'm gonna run, I'm gonna do things, I'm gonna stay busy. Dorsal is safety through inaction. I'm just gonna shut down, I'm gonna sleep, I'm going to zone out, I'm going to drink, go on social media, whatever your advice of choice is. And then ventral, which is where we want the reinvention part to come from, is I'm gonna stay safe through connection. I'm gonna connect to myself, to other people, to my dreams, to my desires. And that's where we have options. That's where we have choices.

Alex 1:04:18

And that's why they also say it's so important who your friends are. Your friends are very telling of who you are, the regulation of your nervous system. The nervous system controls literally everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

I love talking about this. It's the foundation of creating pretty much any change because your nervous system hates change. Yeah. So unless you get it on board with the change that you want, it will stop you from changing because it sees the familiarity of safety. It sees your growth as a threat. So any change requires us working with the nervous system, not against it.

Alex 1:04:55

Do you think Reiki and the different spirituality techniques are practices to regulate your nervous system?

When Regulation Triggers Other People

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

I think they could be supportive for sure. I think in moments of intensity, they offer that extra layer of healing to help you come back down, where maybe it's hard for you to come back down on your own. So I think they could be great add-ons. I don't think they on their own are rewiring your nervous system. It really does require you rewiring those narratives, those stories, that understanding. It's really about your relationship with yourself, is how I like to think about it. And working on that relationship requires literally working, building that relationship with yourself. So anything that's passive to me isn't helping you shift that relationship. So it's a great add-on. I think it's actually a necessary add-on, having practitioners, body work, like so amazing. Again, we heal with other people just like we're traumatized with other people. And that foundational piece needs rebuilding that relationship with yourself and how you relate to yourself and your struggles and your flaws. That needs to be the foundation. And then everything goes on topic. I'm a big fan of supplements and all that health stuff. But that stuff on its own doesn't change anything. But if you're doing the basic health stuff and then you get the right supplements and then you get the right support, it's a game changer. Yeah. But it could only be that last 20%. It's not that foundational first 50, 60, 70%.

Alex 1:06:21

The clients that you've worked with, have you seen external or even internal health changes after they've gone through the process with you of rewiring their nervous system? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

A lot of things that come up are like gut stuff often, because that's very connected to the nervous system. So keep in mind the nervous system is controlling all the major organ systems of your body, your immune system, your digestion, your hormonal, your productive organs. So all of those could improve if you become more regulated. So some hormonal issues, gut issues, autoimmune issues started getting better. And again, they were getting extra support. But what was interesting, she was like, I've been doing these things and it wasn't making a difference. Then we start working together. She actually had more flare-ups because things were coming to the surface. It was because autoimmune is often connected to trauma and emotions. So those emotions and traumas were coming to the surface and she related to them differently. He was actually doing so much better with a couple of quite serious autoimmune conditions. That wasn't the goal of the work, but your immune system, reproductive organs, like all of that is connected to the nervous system. So when you become more regulated, it makes a difference to those things. In one of my trainings with somatic experiencing, our teacher was telling us about a cab driver who had this thing happen to him where he lost his peripheral vision because something came in and he just disconnected from that would always get into car accidents. And when they did the somatic work, he had access to his peripheral vision, stopped getting into accidents, or people who always bump a part of their body because there's a protective mechanism in the body where they lean away or don't notice things coming from that side because of something that happened. And again, that's another way of thinking of how things get stored in your body. It develops certain movements to protect or leans in certain directions, and that becomes a posture and a way of moving through the world.

Alex 1:08:10

If somebody wants to work on regulating their nervous system and getting to know their nervous system a little bit more, how can they start? I know it's important to work with someone in the beginning stages. How can they start working with you? Do you offer courses, one-on-one sessions?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:31

I typically work with people one-on-one. I have a program called Recalibrate, it's a one-on-one coaching program that also includes community workshops. You're doing this alongside of a small group of people, but you're doing alongside other people. There's training. So it's just like a really holistic way to go about it. This work could feel a little lonely. I'm actually opening spots up for that coaching program this month. The other ways I work with people completely one-on-one. So it's just me and them, there isn't that community element. And that's where we go a little bit deeper. In the other program, I actually have another coach come in who does embodiment work. So, like again, we team up to help the deepening and the stretching. Because that's kind of like the thing we've been talking about here that in order for our nervous systems to expand, we need to feel safe and grounded. And then we also need to be stretching. So I have one program when you do that within community and another where you do that just with me one-on-one.

Alex 1:09:24

And then where can everyone follow you on socials?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Yeah, I'm on Instagram, Masha K, K-A-Y. And I forgot to mention this. I was like, don't forget. For if any of your listeners are ever interested in recalibrate, so which is that program for really just unlocking your, I call it your and like I could be successful and at peace. I could be ambitious and have joy and have love and all of these things. Anyone who's ready to do that and really wants support, I created a code. So dry diaries 300. If they want to get 300 off, they could reach out to me on social, just say they're from the podcast, and I'll get on the call. We could talk about if it's a good fit because there is an application. But yeah, I just wanted to give something nice for your listeners.

Alex 1:10:08

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Yeah, I appreciate it. Of course. Have you written a book? I haven't. I feel like you should. Oh my gosh, that's so funny you say this because it's my dream.

Alex 1:10:18

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

I've always dreamed of writing a book, and I'm like a I'm a little spiritual. If you get three messages of someone saying the same thing. So that book has been popping up for me.

Dorsal Shutdown And Depression

Alex 1:10:27

Yes. Or even almost like a diary, a journal, like how to regulate your nervous system, what you're feeling in that moment. Yeah. Like what did you feel throughout the day? And so people can acknowledge you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

So what I do have, and eventually the goal is to put it into a book, as you said. What I do have is in that program recalibrate. I have trainings. So if you join, you get bi-weekly trainings where I walk you through this. So it's two to three hours every two weeks for six months.

Alex 1:10:56

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

So for six months, I walk you step by step through each part of the three phases from befriending to rewiring to integrating. And there we have a 200-page workbook for it. Now it's experiential. One day it will be condensed into a book. For now, I love the experience of walking someone through it. A lot of us think we have to do it alone. Everything is self-help and it's giving the wrong message. At the end of the day, we need community. We need aligned community, safe community. But we're not meant to do this work completely alone. I think for a lot of us, it's shutting us down. We're so disconnected in today's world. In this season of life, I'm enjoying the connection with my clients and getting to walk side by side with them one day.

Alex 1:11:35

I'm about to say early meetings for nervous system regulation.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:39

Everyone's sit in a circle. That's what our workshops are. That's what we do as part of Recalibrate. We work as a team with our clients and we have these workshops. We do regulation techniques, different approaches to goal setting, manifestation. We bring in spirituality, we talk about it and support one another. And it's so magical. That's why I love one-on-one coaching, but recalibrate has this group workshop component, and it's a game changer. I did all this work alone and it was lonely. So we're really trying to cultivate that community now.

Alex 1:12:08

Oh my gosh. Well, I love that. I had to check it out. Please do. Yeah. All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. I feel like I learned so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

So fun.

Alex 1:12:18

I could talk to you forever. Literally forever. Unfortunately, we have to end. She drove all the way from San Diego. We gotta live. Of course. Thank you guys for listening, and I'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.