Chai Football

El Clásico - Football’s Golden Ticket!

• Joe Morrison • Season 2 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 47:31

This week on Chai Football, Joe Morrison sits down with rising Indian sports reporter Manas Gera, who earned a golden ticket to cover El Clásico in Spain - the iconic showdown between FC Barcelona and Real Madrid CF. 

From navigating high-pressure media zones and matchday accreditation to chasing atmosphere through the streets before kickoff, this episode pulls back the curtain on what football journalism in Europe really looks like. 

Manas shares the shock of Europe’s football intensity, the speed of elite match coverage, and the craft of turning stadium noise, cold night air, and fan emotion into stories that travel from Barcelona to living rooms around the world. It’s part football travelogue, part sports media masterclass, and a rare inside look at how major La Liga broadcasts and digital football content are actually made. 

If you’re into La Liga, football media, matchday storytelling, behind-the-scenes sports reporting, or the magic of Barcelona vs Real Madrid on matchday, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

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Production Credits:

Presented by: Joe Morrison & Manas Gera
Studio Engineer & Editor: Manny Peñamora
Executive Producers: Joe Morrison and Ian Carless
Produced by: W4 Podcast Studio

Setting The Scene And Reunion

SPEAKER_00

You got this golden ticket and you have to be the eyes and yours of the fancy.

SPEAKER_01

Have you been on the fair level? A millennial with a mobile phone connectivity, you're absolutely screwed.

SPEAKER_00

Kevin Campbell was the energy, the kindness, there was so much positivity. Well that's what we call them as positivity.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't realize the scale of it. I like to see every second, every minute of the heart. I'm trapped in a lift with Budgie Kevin. With Budgie rambling on about something completely unconnected to the game. Welcome to Chai Football. Uh, no Shrity Nair this week, so I have to have to introduce this, and my pretty face is obviously worth more than the other face that you normally see on Chai Football. And uh with me, Manas Gira.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me, Joe. This is this is pretty awesome. We're doing this sort of a thing after five years right now.

From India To Spain: First Steps

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it's been a long time. And I think uh uh we just need to set the scene and I need to tell you what the relationship is between myself and Manus. So uh you worked with me first time round was the 2018 World Cup.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

You were like a roving reporter, weren't you? Yep, 2018. You did uh uh a little uh trip around India. What was that series called? Do three country diaries. Right, that's right, I remember. Um, and also we worked again in 2020, was it, or 2021? I can't remember. 2019, so end of 2019, yeah. All right, 2019. Uh on La Liga's joint venture with what is now Meta. It was Facebook then, but it was uh Meta. And that time you were roving around Spain, weren't you? How many how many grounds did you go to in total?

SPEAKER_00

So I came to 20 clubs, 20 league clubs. Did you go to every ground? No, uh 20 ground, 20 clubs. Oh, so you went to over half. Yeah, just over there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that must have been quite an experience, was it? Like Joe, I can't begin to tell you. Is that the first time you'd you'd worked or operated outside of India?

Experiencing European Football Pace

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, without a doubt. So that was like 2019 was the first year that I actually got out of India for the first time. Oh, really? So in the summer of 2019 is when my brother took me to the UK. And so we we did a trip of UK and the France. And that was the first time I experienced European football in the flesh. So that kind of set me up well for coming to Spain. Because before that I was clueless how Europe works, how these trains operate.

SPEAKER_01

What was the biggest just to quickly on the football first? What was the biggest thing you noticed in the difference between watching football in India? Because you're you're a huge football fan, uh, and watching it in Europe and in particular in Spain.

SPEAKER_00

If there was one key difference, um, I think that would be the pace. The pace of not just the game, not just the players, but um even even the refereeing decisions, right? Like it's it's not the best. I think there's definitely scope to be better in in Europe, but in India, I feel the game is just a bit slower for many different reasons. Like, of course, quality is not at the same level as Europe, but I feel like the entire product is slightly behind in that in the pace. And I feel like the I don't I don't remember the exact numbers, but the ball in play numbers are significantly lesser in the top tier of Indian football. So I'd say the pace of the Yormun game blew me away. It was it was incredible.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so then so you you get off the plane, uh, on a personal level. What was the biggest shock or the biggest surprise to you? And I'm talking about Spain here, I'm not talking about um your well, it was a holiday, wasn't it? UK in front.

SPEAKER_00

It was it was yeah, it was an it was a paid holiday. And I can't I can't tell you how good that was. But what was shocking, what was shocking about the city or the football culture?

Culture Shocks And Language Gaffes

SPEAKER_01

No, just like what's what struck you is probably the best way of describing it, you know.

SPEAKER_00

What is the culture, about Spain in general? I was overwhelmed, Joe. I was like for the first month, two months, I was just finding my feet in the country because as I told you, I hadn't I hadn't traveled to outside of India as much um by that time. Right now, fortunately, I've been I've had a chance to do that. But I was um in How old were you then? In 2019, I was uh 26. 26, okay. Yeah, 25, 26. And um I was finding a feet and all Spain, they don't have too much English, so I had I didn't know what Salida means. I think Salida meant entrance, and I was going into the exits when I wanted to enter the station. And um, so honestly, the first month I was I was just faking it till I was like making it to the grounds. And but I feel you and the production team, Amelia, Ignacio, amazing. I feel that production unit was just so welcoming. I didn't, my sim card wasn't activated on the first day, so I had no internet on my phone. I had no idea where my IBIS was. Apparently, it was And being Gen Z, but by the way, what are you? Are you Genial, Joe Millennial?

SPEAKER_01

I'm sorry, millennial. Being a millennial, you must have felt like you were standing in the middle of Spain naked, not having mobile phone connectivity. Man, Joe, I'm not great with Genesis. Stranded is probably the word you were looking for. You must have felt stranded. I was a millennial without mobile phone connectivity, you're fucked, aren't you? You're absolutely screwed.

Production Crew And Early Support

SPEAKER_00

I was, I was, I was naked, you could say, over there, and I had no data. I did not know where my IBIS was. So, Joe, the Media Pro office was like 500 meters away from the IBIS I was staying at. And it wasn't too far. I should have known my directions by that point, but I I just didn't. But Amelia was kind enough to just like guide me to my IBIS. And so honestly, the production crew, you, Kev, Budgie just made everything feel like home. And I feel that really helped because I was overwhelmed for the first day, for the first few days. But then when I got to meet you, when I got to meet the crew, it was it was comfortable.

SPEAKER_01

And uh and Kevin in this is Kevin Campbell, by the way. God God bless his soul. Uh, Kevin, in particular, what was your experience of meeting him? And the reason I ask you that question specifically is number one, I don't like talking about budgie. Uh and uh but number two, more importantly, you're a big Arsenal fan, aren't you?

Remembering Kevin Campbell

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so honestly, Joe, meeting Kevin was Kevin was surreal for so many reasons. Firstly, as you said, I'm an Arsenal fan. He's he's an Arsenal legend. First saw him, I um it was it was like a meeting an Arsenal player, right? Like there was there was this certain amount of awe, and there was this certain amount of like respect, of course, that he commanded. And he always did, but at the same time, it it did not take too long for me to realize that I might just be friends with an Arsenal legend. Kevin Campbell was like the energy, the kindness, like there was love, there was there was so much positivity that well, that's what we called him, Mr. Positivity. Like, perfect. And like it's very difficult to describe the way Kevin made you feel as a friend, as an Arsenal fan, and um I was fortunate to like sit in some cab rides with him to the stadium, fortunate to be behind the cameras when you guys were rolling in the studio. Kevin's energy was contagious, and um and to s to know that I have an Arsenal legend on my contact list in my phone always will. It was it's it's it's just surrender. I I don't know how to describe it, but I just don't have words to describe the positivity that Kevin Mr. Positivity I think is the perfect way. And I have stories about Kevin after the La Liga project. We were chatting on text. We used to talk about Arsenal a couple of times. I used to text him. I was working with another channel after that, Sports Arena, for the Qataver World Cup, and we had a magazine show, and we wanted to discuss English football on one of the shows. And uh I told the producer, God of Kalra, I told him, Listen, I have a friend who's who's who's a legend. Do you think I should like probably try calling him like for one of these virtual calls? And I didn't know at Kevin has a busy schedule, he was on broadcast duties quite often, and but I just WhatsApped him and within a minute he responded, Yes, Manus, I'll be there. I'm happy to talk to you. It's so refreshing, that isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

It's like uh you know, you can understand my position. People hit me up on LinkedIn, whatever platform, pick pick a platform all the time. And you know what? 99 times out of a hundred, manus, I can't do anything for them. It's that simple. I can't help them in whatever industry they're in, in particular broadcast. But the very least you can do is reply. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And and by the way, if there's anyone that I haven't replied to, please forgive me because it's your message or you know, your contact has hit me at a time when I'm getting a flood of messages and it just got lost in the in the noise. But yeah, Kevin and I've just I I see very few people that at the very least you can just reply and say, even if Kevin had replied to you and said, sorry, Manus, I can't do it, you would still be just as respectful of Kevin because he was straight up and honest. Instead of we live in a society now, don't we, where it's just like, well, it's it's a wash with bluffers in particular, but people that don't have the basic courtesy to say, um, you know, look, I can't help you.

Positivity, Professionalism, And Mentorship

SPEAKER_00

And exactly, so it wasn't just that he said yes, it wasn't just he responded to my message, but he showed up to that show with ultimate professionalism. He had his headpiece on, he made sure his audio was crisp, his shirt as always, his outfits were the sharpest shirts, and he used to wear the bow tie as well on Thursdays. Uh that's right, yeah. On Thursdays. Yeah, they can go Thursdays. And he used to show up and he made me he made me feel like I really mattered. Like, and like at the start of my at the start, there was a bit of imposter syndrome, if you could say, but he made he made sure that I felt hurt, and um, like at the at the start of my career it was difficult, right? And but he made sure that I'll give this guy my best shot. And when he was on the show, like he when he was on the um Sports 18 show, on our magazine show, when we were talking about football, why is England not scoring as many goals as it should? The way he spoke and the professionalism that he showed up with, it was he went above and beyond to be there for me. And I felt like he was like I felt a sense of responsibility towards Kevin throughout the process of the producers reaching out to him, giving him instructions on how to get onto the show, me chatting with him on the show, my co-host talking to him. There was a sense of responsibility, but it almost felt like I am the one, I'm the one doing him a favor, but it's just how he made you feel, and um oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So coming back to La Liga, um Classic Os. Let's talk about the Classicos. First of all, what was your role? What did you do in and around those classicos? Because they are a monster unto themselves, aren't they? They're an absolute huge production, and they're a huge game. Never mind, a huge production. Um, so your role, just explain to those who didn't know, because this is not about what people saw you on camera, it's about what happened behind the camera.

SPEAKER_00

So the classicos in our order, please. Go for it. The classicals were the classicals were like the the two biggest events of the year for us in the season, right? And it was uh the preparation for that was long, went on for weeks. So what I was doing on the ground, Joe, um I had access to the stadiums, of course. I still can't believe I did have access to the classicals, but I basically had to find the colour stories, as we called it, the human interest stories, the stories outside of the footballing. Because you, Kevin Budgie, did a perfect job of that. I was the one finding the fans who summed up what it was like being there. I I remember the brief you gave me, Manus. You got this golden ticket, and you have to be the eyes and ears of the fans, make them feel like they are there because you're an Indian dude who has this golden ticket, as you mentioned, and um, yeah, that's what I had to do. I had to make like make the fans feel like they were there with me. Are you Indian? Yeah, through and through. Have you been on the fair and lovely? Hey, sorry. But as I was saying, Joe Fair and Lovely I know it's just sunscreen. But as I was saying, so being on the ground, the eyes and ears of the fans was what I had to do. And um, can I also tell you the experience of my first classical? So so after every game, almost after every game, whenever you had time, I remember asking you that Joe, can you meet me in the lobby? Can you just give me a debrief about how I was? How would you rate my performance? So after the first classical, uh one out of ten was was the answer every time. One out of ten. You give me four out of ten, too.

SPEAKER_01

It must I I must have been drinking or something, was that?

SPEAKER_00

So it was so it was the morning, the day after the classical, and that was that was also when you were reviewing your the entire you used to go through the entire show, not just the matches, the entire footage of all of the show and the feedback to it. So I remember coming to the reports. I remember those reports staying up till whatever it was, two hours, three hours after the show, going through the digital You were nerdy about those reports, and those reports were interesting to say the least. But I'll just quickly uh finish that. So I used to come to Joe after the day after the classical. I used to take a debrief from him, what I did wrong, what could I have done better. He gave me a four out of ten in the first classical because the first classical was like it was it was a shock for me. I didn't realize the scale of it. There was actually a fire outside the stadium as well, if you remember. That's right, yeah. I remember that. The wheelie bin.

Classico Role: Finding Fan Stories

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Someone set fire to the wheelie bin and pushed it down the street, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00

And the thing is, my access was severely limited. Big wheelie bins, the industrial wheelie bins.

SPEAKER_01

So it was a big fire.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And but the thing is, though, my access was severely limited on the classical day because it wasn't like any other match. Like if I was at the Katafi Stadium, if I was at like the IBAR stadiums, it wasn't a concern to get to different points of the stadium. But for the classical, I was told at almost every spot that listen, you can't shoot here, get out of here.

SPEAKER_01

So it was So just to stop you there and explain to those who are watching, what you tend to find at the average stadium on the average match day is that your accreditation, your pass gets you into pretty much the stadium complex, doesn't it? So it gets you into the outer complex, but it also gets you into the inner stadium complex as well. On big matches and World Cups and Champions League nights and stuff like that, your accreditation and passes get you to a segment of the stadium. So it might be a certain side of the pitch, it might be a certain end of the stadium of the pitch, but it's a segment of the stadium, a zone. So you'll get access to certain zones, maybe one zone, maybe three zones, um, but you get certain access to certain zones. So the the stadium complex and the stadium itself is divided up into sections. So that's the difference between big matches, big games, and the other ones. Carry on.

SPEAKER_00

And because I wasn't gonna do like the places that I wanted to be, and we needed like Kangs that makes up a good show, the background behind you, just to convey the story a bit. During this classical, I was not allowed to shoot with a canvas that I wanted, so I had to eventually shoot in like a dungey tunnel in a couple. I remember that, yeah. And the thing is it wasn't our. And was that did the camera lens not steam up or something? It was a very cold day, wasn't it? It was cold, yeah. It was it was December. And um the like it was it was not a good frame. But the thing is it was it was half time, and we needed to get this link out there.

Big-Match Accreditation And Zones

SPEAKER_01

And we eventually did that in the tunnel, and um, of course, it wasn't the best link out there, but we did we did get something out for it was a 90-second piece about halftime about what that mosquito was like, and um yeah, so it was I think I think yeah, I think you also need to point out to those watching as well, because there's probably um I'm guessing there's some young, budding uh pitch side reporter, journalist, whatever you want to call it, uh, who are looking at this and going, oh, you know, taking it with interest. Um where you are positioned, where your seat is, so you when you're a reporter, you get given a position or a seat or whatever, quite often is a million miles away from where you have to shoot your content, correct? Yeah. And getting from there to there, especially in three-tier stadiums, which obviously the Camp New is, um sometimes you can be put up in the gods. Uh is the well, the press box actually is up the top, isn't it? The media area is actually up the top. We had to go in a lift, and they actually the production team thought, right, the quickest way to get the team from the media area, which was where we sat and watched the game, to our position pitch side for halftime, or before the game kicked off halftime and then full time. Um they thought, well, we'll just get them in this lift, we'll go all the way down to that level, we'll walk out and we walk pitch side. Obviously, what no one thought about was that lift on a match day at that time. Uh, people on every floor are pressing it to stop at their floor. So it literally took us 10 years to go from there down to the bottom. So what I'm saying is people don't appreciate that getting from where you are to where you need to be uh can be a real challenge.

SPEAKER_00

Was a halftime show like it wasn't Pitsette, of course. Pittside, yeah, yeah. You had a halftime show. I I don't know, I didn't know that actually. So you made it down in the lift and you made it in time because it was just like a very fine. No, oh no, no, we um we had to leave.

Halftime Logistics And The Dreaded Lift

SPEAKER_01

And this actually, from a sort of a professional standpoint, I like to see every second, every minute of the half. Because what you're trying to do is you're trying to construct a kind of a narrative, a story of what the first half is all about. So, of course, something could happen in just before half time, of course, final five minutes of the first half, or 10 minutes before halftime. But what we were having to do was because of the the challenge, the logistical challenge, we were having to leave our position 10 minutes before half time to be the first in the lift and to get down to that level to be in position pitch side to light it up, basically. So you missed that, you know, frantically chatting with producers saying, What if a miss, what if a miss, because I'm in a lift. Yeah, I'm trapped in a lift with Budgie and Kevin, you know, with Budgie rambling on about something completely unconnected to the game, you know, which is like, oh, I I saw they they make nice baked bread in that little bakery at round the corner from the stadium. Budgie, what the fuck is that gonna do with the first 45 minutes? Should we go there tomorrow morning and get fresh fresh rolls? Like, what? Where does that come from? Anyway, joking aside, yeah, you didn't know what you'd missed in that 10 minutes that you were trapped in the lift with uh Budgie and Kevin before you got out of pitch side. You had to just hope and pray, Manas, that when you arrived pitch side, that and that was always my biggest fear, that the crowd was not busy celebrating a goal and you don't know what the hell's going on because you've missed it because you're in the lift.

SPEAKER_00

You've done a lot of studio shows, um more than like a couple of thousand shows, almost seven thousand. How many of budgie the best ones?

SPEAKER_01

A couple of thousand, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

So how how how different is that being in studio versus being on ground and oh what do you want? What do you prefer? I hate it. I hate it.

SPEAKER_01

It's a it's it no being inside inside a box.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Studio Versus On-Location Broadcasting

SPEAKER_01

Uh I I hate being uh oh if absolutely if you if someone said to me, even though there's more can go wrong pitch side or on location, it's called outside broadcast, um, even though more can go wrong because there's more moving parts, I love that element of it. I love that challenge, I love that thinking on your feet. Remember the uh the other classico that was at the Bernabo and the heavens just opened and it was pouring with rain? Do you remember that? Biblically all of my notes went into a puddle of blue ink. It was like the the hours and hours that I had spent in the day before and that morning of the game doing all my research and all my notes. So uh that was a real challenge. But to come back to your question, um, studios I find are bland. Okay. And modern studios are even blander in terms of getting a real vibe. And the reason I say that is modern studios tend to be green screen. So when you're actually sitting inside them, all it is around you is green. So you have no reference points except the other your guests sitting on a table next to you. The table itself and your guests tend to be real, physical, but everything else is is totally uh virtual. So, and there's a there's another thing that most people don't know about green screen studios. Um, they have a lot of computing power in them, they have a lot of equipment and kit and everything in them. So they have to be kept quite cool and chilled. Right. So if you're doing nine-hour live broadcasts on World Cups, like three games back to back, you're by the end of it, you know. It's uh so uh I hope that answers uh answers your question. But yeah, location, location, all the time. Location, I uh I love it. But a lot of people don't because they find it less controlled, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it can be harder. But coming back to coming back to you, yeah, um, what was your biggest challenge in going round those grounds? One of the challenges was obviously other than the language, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Salida. One of the challenges was um it was the fact that I got lost in Camp New. I j I literally got lost in Camp New. So the thing is, as I said, the canvas was important, so I wanted to shoot different color stories. The backdrop, yeah. The backdrop for those who Yeah, the backdrop was of the stories was really key to the entire story. So I wanted to shoot at different parts of Camp New. And uh there was a story happening which was on the ground, pit side, and we wanted to shoot that. Then there was a story and Camp New is the tallest, the tallest stadium in like definitely the tallest stadium I've ever been to, and it had it like it has a hundred thousand capacity almost. So getting to the top of Campano, which was the backdrop that I had planned for one of my stories. And it's a long way up there. And it's a long way up. It's like hiking Everest, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It it took me a like it took me a while. It took me like 15 or 20 minutes to get from Pittside to the top tier. And um my the producers did not like me too much. The the camera, the videographers, they did not enjoy the fact that you were sending me a little bit more. Because they weren't just holding the big camera, they're also holding this live view backpack behind them, which used to uh link or send all the footage immediately to back into the studio. Plus tripod, plus batteries. I apologize to all of them.

SPEAKER_01

I hope you weren't doing the the big dog um what's the what's what is it called? You know, where you let your cameraman carry everything. I hope you were nah no no no nah. First thing I was taught at the BBC, you know, assist your camera crew and usually tripod carrying the cards.

Getting Lost In Camp Nou

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just just the tripod is all I can carry with the live view stuck onto his bag. But um, so we used to go to the top of the Camp New, and there was one of my favorite stories that we shot were the 20 flags lined up on Camp New, and they were lined up according to the position of the team on the on that match day. The league teams. Correct. So like if real.

SPEAKER_01

So it's all the club flags. Correct. In in order of their position in the league. Exactly. And that was a great little story, that by the way.

SPEAKER_00

That was funny. Most people don't know that. Exactly. Yeah. And like I think I think Nacho had told us about that like on the day before that. Like it was something that it's nowhere on the internet, and I couldn't have guessed that they do they changed the position of the flag for almost every match day. And um, so to get that story, I had to be on the top tier of Camp New. Uh, because that's where the flags were close by. So getting there was like a 15-20 minute hike. Shooting that story in the wind, in the cold wind of Campano at that altitude was again a a challenge.

SPEAKER_01

But honestly, the way that altitude sound like it's uh what's that uh the famous highest professional football ground in the world? Is it La Paz? I think it's La Paz in Bolivia, isn't it? Possibly it's as the highest uh you make it sound like we're at La Paz.

SPEAKER_00

Joe, I was hiking for like 15 years. 2,000 feet above sea level. I think that's one of the reasons that Camp New has been redeveloped so that like I can find my way to the top tier. I was literally lost. But the thing is, I think the story turned out so well, and I feel I saw the reaction in the studio that you, Baji, and Kev gave to that story as well. It was rewarding to say the least. It was a challenge, but it was like getting up there and the canvas, the backdrop, yeah, that that made it all worth while it was done.

SPEAKER_01

So, Plus, what was your highlight? What was your low light of your entire time doing that? Oh, what was what was your but you can you can call it your biggest disappointment, I suppose, as well.

The Flags Story And Payoff

SPEAKER_00

I think one of the disappointments was March 11th, 2020, when I was given the ticket to go back to India. The league stopped. I think Mikel Arteta. Oh yeah, COVID. Yeah, yeah. Mikel Arteta was I think the first one in the football ecosystem to get COVID, and then soon everything started shutting down. And then I was scheduled to fly to Real Mallorca, was the Barcelona, um, on March 13th, I think that match was March 13th, March 14th, 2020, that weekend. And it has to be like one of my lowest points because I was given a ticket back to India.

SPEAKER_01

But and at that point, no one in the world, never mind us in our little world, and obviously the La Liga fraternity, no one knew if and when it was ever going to restart again.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

COVID Halts The Journey

SPEAKER_01

Because people were having conversations that certainly with me, and this is the powers that be in La Liga, that were saying, look, it may be that this season is written and we start afresh in August, and you just said we're the beginning of March, or we may have to wait and see because no one knows how bad things are, start in in uh 2021. So we're in this no man's land. Um, me and Budgie, we were in the air when when the the decision was made. So we'd got on the plane, and we were in the air. So when we got on the plane, they said, look, there's a meeting taking place um about the future of the league, and then by the time we'd landed, they uh they they said that it's uh it's cancelled, the league's cancelled. So we were in a in a position because now the prospect was coming. The rumors that were starting to swirl were that airports were gonna be shut down, yeah, and the country's borders were going to be closed, which is actually subsequently what happened. But no one knew when that was gonna happen. So is that gonna happen today, tonight, tomorrow morning, tomorrow night, two days? How long have we got? So it was this frantic scramble as to like um I'm faced with the prospect of being trapped in an empty hotel for could be months, or how do I get out of here? How do I get the next ticket, the next flight? You know, the panic that was that was just flowing through everyone and anyone, whether it be crew, production, ourselves, the league, you know, like just get out of there. Just we just had to get out. Yeah, it was as simple as that.

Zidane Almost-Interview And Lessons

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I like I feel that was definitely one of my low points when that ended. Another low point, Joe, was um Levante versus Real Madrid. I can't remember which month that was. Must be must be January, I guess. But um I was in the flash interview zone. So the flash interview zone is the zone where players come in immediately after players and managers come in immediately after the match for interviews. So the reactions are authentic and real because the adrenaline and the adrenaline is still flowing. I was in that room, and for this project, Joe, I decided to learn some Spanish. So I was on level A2. I'd done my A1 and I was on level A2. And when I entered the Dos Cerveza, por favor. Muy bien, muy bien. That's all you need in Spanish. That's two beers, by the way. Two beers, please. Yeah, and I don't speak much Spanish. But um, I was in that room and Thibaut Cotwa, who spoke good English, him Real Madrid goalkeeper. Yeah, Thibaut Cotwa, the goalkeeper. It was usually him I spoke to, and I thought it would be him again this time out. But to my surprise, the coach at that point, Zidane, legend, he entered the room. The media manager, could we for Facebook get a piece with him? And that was that was like that was one of my highest points in that because I did not expect him to come into the and it was a small room in Levantha Stadium. The slash interview zone is usually like a larger space where we have a good amount of space to walk around and just have a chat with somebody. But this in Levante was a tiny room.

SPEAKER_01

It was the smaller stadiums tend to have smaller press areas and media areas, don't they?

SPEAKER_00

And it was it was the it felt like the room was temporary. It used to be made up on match day, it used to be broken apart after it. So Zidane entered that room and I asked the media manager, can I have a chat with him for like 90 seconds for Facebook? This broadcast goes to South Asia. And um he asked me, Do you speak Spanish? And I didn't know what to say. Because for those five seconds, I'm like, is A2 sufficient? Could I have a conversation with this footballing legend, this footballing great in A2 level Spanish? And I said, Poquito poquito. And um the interview didn't happen. Yeah, yeah, one of the heroes of my life.

SPEAKER_01

So what did you learn from that? Next time, just lie. Yes, C C C. I don't know, Joe.

SPEAKER_00

I should I could have actually done that, but yeah, that wasn't the.

Freedom To Fail And Grow

SPEAKER_01

Well the thing is that those guys are so respectful that you know what, if they discover that your Spanish wasn't that good, yeah, they would bumble through, and at least you might get one or two answers out of them, and it's done, you know. In hindsight. Sometimes you've got to we we use the word blag. Sometimes you've got to be a little bit, you know, out there and a bit. Do you think we could have got captions onto that? And like this probably we had a nacho either. Yeah, we had that uh is that thunder or is that the building falling down? Um yeah, I mean you could have, you know, it put the we always set used to say the BBC, get it in the can, worry about everything else afterwards, you know. Or get it on tape, you know, which is what a can was. It was a tape box, get it in the can, worry about everything else afterwards. Um it's been fascinating. It really has because these are the stories and these are the insights, manus that no one gets to well, certainly see, because a show is you know starts there and finishes there, but no one ever gets to see behind the scenes and you know, learn behind the scenes as to what happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I just want to point out one thing, Joe, before that. That so if this is one of the highlights, actually. So I feel like this project was one of my first projects in front of the camera, La Liga, and uh I feel one of my favorite parts of this project was I was allowed to make mistakes. And I feel most broadcast- You made a lot. I could have done without knowing that, but just the fact that I was given the freedom to make my own decisions. If I'm having an interview with Sande Xingan, I was asking him the questions that as an Indian fan, football fan, I wanted to know more about how he felt about La Liga, what was the difference between Bernabé and Camp. Sandee Zhengan gave some incredible insights about how he would have approached from Bernabé because the dimensions were different. Barcelona liked a bigger grant because that was their style. They wanted to pass and like dominate a team just by passing them. So the interviews with Sandew to make my own decisions, make my own mistakes more importantly, and that those two seasons were just like defined the rest of my time as well.

Authenticity, Style, And On-Air Identity

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think my perspective on that, and I'm glad you brought that up actually. It's a really interesting point that you make. Um, my perspective on that is uh number one, you can't progress and you don't learn without any mistakes or failures. And I don't care who you're working for, I don't care what the organization is. And I miss I still shows, but what happens is over time your mistakes get less, you know. Um way back at the beginning of my career, it might have been a hundred mistakes a show, you know. Obviously, now it's considerably less than that. One. Um, but no, the the point I would make about the mistakes is uh more importantly for me is is specific role. You're that roving reporter, you're in it, it's through all your eyes. Um, so why would you uh restrict, confine, pigeonhole um someone like yourself? And I'm not just talking about you specifically, I'm talking about any young reporter or any young presenter. Why would you do that? I don't understand why you would do that. You're trying to bring them and let them grow rather than push them down. It's like you and I have had the conversation before about your hair. You know, any executive producer or any producer that says um uh you need to get your hair cut does not know what they're doing in television. It's as simple as that. And if they were working for me, I'd fucking fire them straight away. Why? Because it's what comes out of your mouth as a personality. It's not just the words, it's not just the words, it's the personality that you have to correct, what's the word, teach, assist, help along, you know, it's the whole it's the whole package and what is your profile, what is your personality? Basically, I'll tell you uh, and this this kind of shit does boil my blood. I'll I'll tell you why. If you're telling me that obviously in that particular role that you were in, you were a representation of the young uh football watching audience of India, that's why you're there. If you're telling me that the young football audience of India have long or longer hair, like yours, they're all short back and sides, crew cut, then you're an absolute and utter moron, that simple. Uh so you know, and it's the same with your clothes and it's it's it's all of those kind of things. Now, you know, what's the persona that you're building? And does it fit that person persona? And does it fit the show? If you were doing business news, or you know, you were a court reporter or something like that, well, then it's slightly different. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't want you going round with a dead sheep on your hood if you're a court reporter. You understand the difference? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it and it it does it does boil my blood, that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think there is do you think there is space in sport for the suit and tie? Like the flagship events of the world, like probably the World Cup is coming up next year soon.

SPEAKER_01

It's um it's changing rapidly. Um one thing I would say is look, all everyone talks about authenticity. Yeah. You know, what are you representing? Like if if you've got uh Leo Messi as a classic example. Let's say Leo Messi's finished his career and he's a pundit on your show. Would you expect Leo Messi to turn up in a shirt and tie?

unknown

No.

SPEAKER_01

You'd expect Leo Messi to dress the way Leo Messi dresses when he's um off duty, when he hasn't got football kit on. You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I don't think I've ever seen Messi in a suit and tie.

Evolving Broadcast Formats And Chemistry

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, Ballon d'Or and stuff like that. He usually has a taxedito. Oh yeah, he has a nice tuxedo at that point. Yeah, yeah. So he's got some sort of formal dress when he's receiving an award. But it's not an award show. So um I I have always thought I hated wearing suits and ties, you know, during my career, but it was, you know, it was the norm, it was the what was required. Um, I think you need to have something a little bit more. Look, put it this way, you can't turn up with a stained, holy t-shirt and and ripped jeans. Of course you can't. But that's well, we're on a podcast, but that's the other end of the spectrum. You see what I'm saying? So that end of the spectrum is super, super formal. That end of the spectrum is turning up in shorts and t-shirt, right? The the reality is somewhere in the middle. The the bit that I always find fascinating was I found there was a uniform in the dress sense of pundits and presenters during my career. Okay. So I went through uh a particular period where it was all black. Everyone wore, in fact, do you remember the classico when we were lined up along the side of the pitch? So everyone was in their positions to do the prematch stuff, and all of the presenters and pundits were wearing their black Armani, black Hugo boss with the white shirt and the black tie, the dark tie, you know, in their black um pumps, you know, the back seekers with the white soles. Like it was like, what the fuck is this, man? Like, you know what I mean? Be different. Do something different, be you know, be yourself. And and before you before you um jump in, and now I'm noticing that the uniform is these thick sort of lumberjack shirts over the top of a white t-shirt. So black, you'll start noticing with the pockets. You'll start noticing now, especially in Europe and especially in the US and stuff like that, everyone now is wearing these, and I guarantee you, next summer we will see presenters and pundits wearing white t-shirt, black, you know, uh lumberjack thick shirts over the top of it is like a sort of semi semi-jacket.

SPEAKER_00

I I I so vividly remember, Joe, when we were at the Classico touchline. So you, Kev, and Budgie were lining up, and there were all of the other broadcasters in the shirts, suits, ties, the pumps, and the three of you were there, and I think the preparation for that studio show was a dance. I can't remember the song. Oh, yeah, we did, yeah. All three of you.

SPEAKER_01

It was on the Stadium PA, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a song on the stadium PA, they were all dancing. And I mean the other broadcasters were looking at like these three guys who were just dancing to prepare for the classical studio show while the rest of them were doing their thing in the most formal suits and ties.

Real-Time Fan Interaction That Matters

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm pretty glad that I But I think I think that comes across in the broadcast. And what I would add to that is do you remember the uh sorry, you had a different camera crew to us. We had a like quite a big sort of setup crew, but they were all Spanish. And I remember them coming up after we'd finished the show, after we'd gone off air and saying, We uh one of the guys, the sort of lead uh camera guy, said um we have done, I can't remember the number, we've done 20 classicos and never enjoyed a shoot or a production as much as that. And that's that's all you need. He didn't need to say that, right? You know, he he's done more classicos actually in ground uh in the stadium than I have. I've done lots of classicos, but I haven't done that many inside the stadium. So for him to say that, that's quite a testament. And then you at the end of the day, the most important is your audience at home, not the not the person who says you need to get your hair cut, Manas. It's if someone's sitting at home saying I'm physically switching off now because I don't like Manas's hair or I don't like Manas's dead sheep hoodie, then that's a different game. Yeah, but no one's doing that. Can I ask you one quick uh question, Joe, about that? And and if and if they are, show me the data.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Can I ask you this question, Joe? So like um I'm supposed to be interviewing. I'm sorry, I just have one quick question about this, but I've I've seen like so. I've grown up on a I've grown up watching the Champions League where you were hosting C2K on 10 Sports along with Budgie. And um I then after that it was La Liga in the 2010s on the Sony channel, and then it was Facebook in the 2020s, so across three decades. Wow, yeah, yeah. So you've been on so you've been so I've I've gone to sleep, Joe. Like when after watching us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the first five minutes of the show, you went I was at 3:30 a.m. in the morning when Arsenal was just knocked out by I think Liverpool in the quarterfinal of the league. Arsenal knocked out, were knocked out by everyone. Won't be the case this year. When Yossi Ben Ayun scored against us, and I stayed up after that match because I just I couldn't fall asleep, and I was watching you and Budgie like in the late 2010s. I had school the next day. And um I want to ask you how how much did that change? Because I from C2K to the La Liga show in Sony to Facebook, I feel like I've seen the transition happen like in front of my eyes, and then like I've had the fortune of working with you as well. How much did broadcast and a studio show change in these three decades? Uh in what way exactly? So the way you mentioned how I feel legacy media channels want a certain uniform of sorts and they want a certain conversation flow, um, free-flowing conversations as much as maybe the Facebook studio show enjoyed.

Closing Reflections And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_01

Well, you've you've you've touched on it there, which is because everything is segments, you know, you're hitting ad breaks. Yeah. So going back those decades that you're talking about, everything was segmented, and every segment had a a time, usually about six minutes, maybe seven minutes. Because you're trying to hit an ad break. So whatever the topics were, or whatever the elements of that segment were, you've got to push through them and then get to the ad break. What's changed is there's uh there's a lot more time to breathe now. Yeah. So you can extend a conversation, and that's because of the the change in platforms like this. You know, if we were having this conversation on traditional linear television 10, 20 years ago, um, it this would all be boiled down to a segment. You know, it's literally our chart is seven minutes. Now that's not the case. Yeah. So that's changed. A better way of sort of putting it is flipping the question and say what hasn't changed in in my mind, okay, and that is the components that make successful TV hasn't changed. Great chemistry. It starts with great chemistry. You can tell how much that means to me, Charlie. I know that force time, yeah. Yeah, but by their age. Um, and what I mean by that is so many times someone upstairs will throw some characters together because they tick boxes or they fit a narrative, and there's absolutely zero chemistry, and the audience just can't relate. Like you think about your entire life, you are a watcher or you're part of a gang. Doesn't matter what it is. If you're at school, you're part of a a little community. Everyone talks about community now, you know, with regards to social media. So you're part of a little gang at school or college or at work, you know, there's a little team. And if you're not part of that gang, you might be a watcher of that gang, you know. So those guys over there in the corner of your open plan office, they're always doing that. And you you get a little bit of joy or enjoyment out of uh the chemistry hasn't changed, and you can't fake chemistry. And I see it all the time. And then you know what? A few months later, or sometimes a season or two later, I'll I'll uh I was gonna say open up a newspaper. Who opens up a newspaper nowadays? I will go on my phone and see that the show's been cancelled.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know, or it's the contract hasn't been renewed, or that kind of stuff. So the thing that's the thing that hasn't changed. So there's still that constant search for uh actually, I don't think they're searching for chemistry. I just don't think they understand what chemistry is. I think so I think it's one of those things that you get it or you don't. You you you you know what chemistry is when you're watching it, but from the other side, from us in the industry, you don't know, you have no idea whether you're a presenter, pundit, production, executive production, or even higher. You don't know how to create it. It's as simple as that. And uh so that's the thing that is is still a core ingredient to me. And the other thing as well that I think that has changed, and that's still I'm staggered how no one has grasped the the no one has grasped the real reins of how to put it together is way back then we were using Twitter is our community interaction, and that was just because well there was no Instagram back then. During C2K and like the 2000s. Yes, I'm yeah, go I'm going back a little bit before that actually.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

We were using Twitter because it was the primary social media platform at that time, so there was no Instagram, there was no TikTok, uh, what else? YouTube was in its real infancy back then, and the the comment element of YouTube wasn't very. Big. So uh and that I think was probably the USP of getting the fans into the show. And nowadays I'm still seeing what I call curated social media, which is the channel, the platform, whatever, will ask for comments or ask for questions. It'll be a day before, it'll be the day of, and then they create uh curate them, sorry, and put them into the show in some sort of graphical style.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What we did in C2K way back, C2K, yeah, a couple of decades back, was it was live. The comments were coming in live. And what we did with um Facebook project with La Liga was those comments were coming in live. It was a six-second delay. So it was like you felt like you were part of the panel. Yeah. The punditry panel discussion, because Manas could sit at home in Bombay and message Joe, and not only would his name get checked, which everyone does now, but also his comment would come in. But here's the USP. The USP is it was live. Why is that important? It's important for exactly the same reason that you were talking about earlier on in the mixed zone, getting a player immediately after a game. The emotion is flooding through you. Your team's lost, your teams won, the referee's given a terrible decision. There was a red card that should never have been a red card. How am I supposed to generate emotion and give that to you on air when you're asking me the day before and I don't even know what's happened in the bloody game? Or, you know, um you're asking me uh, you know, how pops up on the bottom of the screen, send your questions and the guys will read them out at half time. Well, if there was an incident five minutes into the first half or ten minutes into the first half, it's not important that incident when it gets the half time because there's a the whole half has happened and drama and other incidents and other things have happened. Just uh come on, man. You know, not putting the audience first, not understanding the audience. What is important to the audience? To me, and we're talking about India. To me, the first thing I want from someone who's on air, if we're talking about football, which we are talking about football, is someone who understands bloody football, where football is the number one sport in their life. You you you have that. I'm not saying that you can't follow other sports, I'm just saying that number one has to be football, then after that comes all the other. And the whole thing of you know, let's put someone who watches the classico once a year and now all of a sudden they are your face of football.

SPEAKER_00

Fuck off, man.

SPEAKER_01

You're deluded.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway, how the hell did you I was curious, and I think I sums it up better.

SPEAKER_01

I've got to go back to therapy because of you. Um, not only having met you after so long, but after you boiling my blood like this. Um, it's been an absolute pleasure, Manus. I don't know how you turned the tables. That was very clever. You should be working for the CIA or something. Thank you very much. Like wait, so it's been a joy to see you once again. And no doubt we will see you on camera across India for the 2026 World Cup. Inshallah. Inshallah. Great to see you. And uh, that's it for this episode of Chai Football. With a little bit of luck, Shruti next episode will have not made it back from her holiday, and we will have someone else who's more interesting than she is. Cheerio.