Why India Needs A Football Hero

In this lively episode of Chai Football, hosts Joe Morrison andn Shruthi Nair, sit down with legendary coach John “Budgie” Burridge for a candid conversation about football, talent spotting, and the realities of developing players in emerging football nations. 

Budgie reveals how he first spotted the towering young goalkeeper, Gurpreet Singh Sandhu, at the iconic Kolkata Derby and still the only Indian footballer to have played in the UEFA Europa League.  The conversation explores how Gurpreet’s journey could have taken him all the way to the English Premier League, and why football politics, federation decisions and structural challenges in Asian football ultimately shaped his path.

Along the way, the episode dives into bigger questions about talent development in India, the importance of grassroots coaching, and what it really takes to produce global football stars. With classic Budgie humour, sharp debate about modern coaching, and behind-the-scenes stories from the world of international football, this is a candid look at the opportunities and obstacles facing Indian football today. 

Production Credits:

Presented by: Joe Morrison & Manas Gera
Studio Engineer & Editor: Manny Peñamora
Executive Producers: Joe Morrison and Ian Carless
Produced by: W4 Podcast Studio

Transcript

Cold Open: Chaos And Banter

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Amazing! Amazing millions in India millions!

SPEAKER_03 0:11

All this abuse was coming from fans and people gathered around outside the bus. As he was getting on the bus, he gave everyone the bird.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

He is not a star, though. You tried to make him, but he's not been made yet.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

If I'd have been hired by the Indian Football Association, good Christian would be the first player to play in the English Premier League.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

God help me, I'm in between a domestic right now.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

And if I was working for the Indian Football Association, I'd have kicked the lattice as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Hello and welcome to Chai Football. Today, with me in the studio, we have the man, the myth, the legend, John Budgie. I feel good, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

And you never have word. I feel nice. And what you're gonna spice, forget him.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

That's all we have. We only have me and John Burrage running the show today.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

You haven't even said my name. You haven't even said my name.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

And we also have Joe Morrison. You wanna do something? There you go. There is no intro for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Joe Morrison's a spoiler, bloody show. Why do you bring him on Tutie Fruity?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Judy Fruity, hello. Why do you bring that stupid bugger on?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, what did you say earlier? He's a downer. He downed me to.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Gives me no confidence. It's all when we used to do the bloody television. Every time he was downing me, downing me, downing me before the bloody show.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

So I'm a Debbie Downer, is that what you're saying?

unknown 1:52

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Shit. Anyway, on that note, what brings you here to our studio today?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

You.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Oh, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

And? You. Thank you. You asked me to come. Thank you. You know, because you know what I mean. I'm regretting that decision, but tell you what, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Let me tell you. Go on. When we started out, he came, he came to old man out of the blue, came to my house, knocked on the bloody door. Would you do a show? You know, I made him. I made him millions in India. Millions. And you know what?

SPEAKER_03 2:24

You made me.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

You made me.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Are you sure about that?

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Bloody right, I'm sure about that. Bloody right, I'm sure about that. For goodness sake, lad. You know, I made you a flipping star.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

But I'll tell you what, he he is not a star though. You tried to make him, but he's not been made yet. But who you did make is Gurpete Singh Sandul, so let's talk about him.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Or how did you make him?

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Well, when you when you go to a country like Oman, you go to a country like UE, you go to a country like Qatar, you know, anywhere that isn't in the country. There's 200 and odd of them in the world. And see I'm trying to be bloody serious.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Well, I'm just I thought this was a discussion about countries, what makes a country. You were trap, jump, jump, trap, drop, jump. Yeah, but you're you're chattering away about countries. Yes, we're no. If you go to a country, right, that's the first the that's the first part of your sentence. If you go to a country, right, just end it there. Carry on.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

God help me, I'm in between a domestic right now. Right. Joe, let him finish his story, please. We've established.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

If you go to a country, we've established that. Right. So Danluff. Right, carry on. If you go to a country, next, what's next? What's next?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

The people, the directors of the who've never played football in their life, a bit like you, you know, they they say to you, oh, you've got to win the Gulf Cup, you've got to win the the Asian Cup, you've got to win this, you've got to win that. No, it's not. Your your main task is to make that country famous for football. You know, it's difficult in India because they're stamped, you know, with cricket.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah.

Spotting Gurpreet At The Kolkata Derby

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah. What India needs is a player out of India, born in India, to go from India. Real Indian trillionaire. And that and that's what I was looking for. Good prick sing Sandhu should have been that lad. Because it was I'll tell you the Ali Al-Habsi story after. Yeah. But he he was the lad. So you know, to do it. You know, but I didn't ah shut up.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah, you're gonna get a chance. I'm trying to set up how you were introduced to uh Gabri Singh Sandhu. So we went over to do the Calcutta derby at the Salt Lake Stadium, East Bengal Mon began. And in the couple of days beforehand, they held these open training sessions for media. We were there and we were watching the build-up to the match. And of course, anyone who doesn't know, everyone in India knows, but anyone who doesn't know around the rest of the world, it's one of the biggest derbies on the planet. Like 120,000 people turn up to the stadium, it's chaos. So we went to watch the training, and Budgie said, Wow, look at him.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

How old was Gilfried then?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

18, I think.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

I think what was unique as well, which is not reported enough, is that he broke into the East Bengal first team, and remember they were the top flight of Indian in football. Uh, at 17 years old, he made his debut, which for a goalkeeper in a derby match, uh sorry, his first derby was 18. Right. So 120,000 people at 18 years old. That's pressure.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Sorry. But he always asked me, what do you look for? In a what do you look for in a in the to send him to England in a goalkeeper?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

What yeah, what what do you look for?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Mentality must be four foot three. No. You know, you look you look at him, you look at his spleen, you look obviously his size. Yeah, you know, but it's very tall, isn't he? Oh six foot four. Six five. Six four. Six four, six five. You know, and he you know, he was fantastic. He kicked the ball full length of the bloody field. You know, that that in my day was a a weapon.

unknown 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

If you can goalkeeper could hit the box, you know, from his own box to that box, you know, it was a weapon. Now it's not. Now it's not.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

What is the weapon now then?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass. You know, it's it's it's ball control. Football, football. Oh, we'll we'll go off the football now, it's gone bloody boring. You know.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

That's another conversation.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

That's another conversation, but good boom. He was there, it was bloody hell when he f when he first kicked it.

What Elite Keepers Need Now

SPEAKER_01 6:53

And were you there scouting at that point or just chance and counter?

SPEAKER_03 6:57

No, we were just there for the game.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

I was on my holidays. On your holidays? I don't know where I was.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

You don't know where you are now. I don't know where then.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Well I looked at him and I, you know, and I thought, he's the next Ali Al Habsi, because Ali was playing in England then.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

And you know, I I've I've got this thing to give young players a chance. Giving them giving them a chance in in England. And, you know, I I went up to Goodprint and said, you know, I'll I'll do it for you. Because I I I'd experience in doing Ali Al Habsi. Right. And no, and I went up to him and said, and he knew that, you know, because I was was famous in this part of the world, you know, doing Ali Allah taking him to Bolton.

unknown 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

So how do these things work? So you just you spotted him, you thought there was talent there, you approached him, and then you took him under your wings?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yes, yeah, yeah. No, I I I couldn't take him under my wing because I wasn't hired by the Indian Football Association. Right. If I'd have been hired, and I'll say it loud and clear, if I'd have been hired by the Indian Football Association, Good Princessing would be the first player to play out of India in the English Premier League. Because he was bloody good enough.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

If you'd been hired.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

If if if I'd have been working for the Indian Football.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

I was just checking out if that was hired with an H or without an H.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Oh gosh. Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

I'm talking bloody sense, man.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Hired. If I'd been hired, Joe. If I'd been hired. So it's without an H. I just wanted to clarify, that's all. It's without an H.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I feel you, I feel you.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

You know, I'm well into my conversation now. And I've got the bloody downer.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

You've got my downer sat there beside me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Stop being a downer, Joe.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Pulling me to pulling me, pushing bloody stuff up my nose and all.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Is that what you do? You push stuff up his nose.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

I don't want to go anywhere near his nose.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Look at it. It's been broken 13 times, that nose. Oh, I'm not seriously.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah. He should. Can I get back seriously?

Approach, Work Permits And Pathways

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah, we can. But before you do that, so one thing I'd noticed when I'd so after seeing him, and then obviously watching the Calcutta derby and seeing the game, Budgie will tell you, one of the things you're looking for is mentality, and he'll go on to that in just a second. But in the previous match, he'd got loads of flack in the media from fans because they'd had a bad game, and this as he was getting onto the bus, um all this abuse was coming from fans and people gathered around outside the bus. As he was getting on the bus, he gave everyone the bird.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 9:42

And it went, it was a storm. And when I saw that, I was like, yes, you need that bit of attitude. Correct. Fucking you. You're right. You know, you need to piss off you. Yeah, piss off. Yeah. So when I saw that picture, I was like, ooh, you show you. You got a chance.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

You know, and also as an 18-year-old Indian, that doesn't, that's not very common to see in India. Exactly. No, it's not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

You're right, but I love it.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

I love it when you need it. You need it. You need it.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So you said you weren't hired by the Federation. Is that because they did not want to hire you?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I have no idea. Federations are funny people. They've never played footballs in their life. Usually, royal family or the you know, the royal family are very important people. Politicians. Politicians have got a lot of money. You know, it is, they haven't got your job as a coach is to produce a person like good price thing sand do and put him in the Premier League.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

That would you you know, you need as much help as you want from the football association, and it doesn't come.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

I I think sorry, can I just interject there? There's uh you don't know what the word interject means, but I think Shrewdy does.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Um Do you think I am a money-bloody goalkeeper?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Um I think one of the issues that they have in certainly a lot of Asian countries is they spend their their budgets on foreign coaches, which many countries in the world do. So I'm after two years. But they spend that money on foreign coaches only for the senior team. And where you really need the foreign coaching talent is at the junior level. Because if by the time they get to the senior team, there's a lot of countries in the world, there's countries in the world whereby their first proper coaching is 19 and 20 years old. By which time they've got bad habits. Yeah. So just on the coaching front, when it comes to federations, international FAs, I think they need to focus more on the coaching talent at the junior level.

Federation Politics And Missed Chances

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yeah, but but but but I mean saying that, you've got to be in charge of the city. Yes, you got to be in position to make the decisions. The first team, you've got to be because the law and you've when he when he comes for a work permit, you can't get a 16-year-old unless he's come through, you know, the English system, you know, where the where you've Unless he's English. If you're 18 and 19 year old, you've got to have a work permit, and you can't get a work permit in the world unless you paid 75% of all international matches over one year. It's only three games.

unknown 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

It's only three games you can do it, you know. So you have got to be in a position as a coach to put him in that first time.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

If you were if you if you you've got to back yourself, if you don't back yourself and fight for him against the coach, already you'll you'll never get there.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Right. And just marrying the the coach and the mentality point of things, right? And I think you've said this before about you thinking that coach coaches need to have been players in the past to be really good coaches.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

You can't you can't, it's it's it's you can't ever flip it, you can't be a coach if you've never played the game. Yeah. And there's so many of them now. Bloody Mourinho. You know, Mourinho was a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah, but he was successful.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

He's never played football in his bloody life.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yeah, but he's a successful coach.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Oh, because it's the players.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Eringo Sachi. Enrico Sachi, he's a good played the game. He sounds like a bloody suitcase. Fame, fake, fake. So so what you're saying is, so what you're telling me It's like you being a bloody coach. Is that you? No, uh no, are you no wait a second, wait, wait, wait, no, wait, wait a second. Are you standing on that statement? Are you? Yeah. So you cannot be a coach unless you've played the game. Is that what you're saying? Correct. So so you can't be a jockey unless you've been a horse. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

What'd you choose?

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

It's different though. It's a different analogy, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

You've got to play the bloody game.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

You know, M Mourinho does it with mulley. He goes and buy he goes and buys flipping great players. Great players that buy everything. You know.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So you think Mourinho would have been a better manager and not a coach?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

No, it's the same thing. It's the same thing, really.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

But again, going back to Joe's point, he's he's successful, isn't he? Like as a as a coach and or a manager.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

He shouldn't be in the bloody game as far as it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

I think I think um we're kind of going off topic here, but I think that it's a uh that there's two elements to being the boss. One is man management or woman management, if you're uh female coach, and the other is actually training on the training ground and the training field. And I think what you're seeing now is it's split. And people talk about Sir Alex Ferguson being the the greatest boss ever, but they forget he had Brian Kidd alongside him, Steve McLaren alongside him, he had uh what was the Portuguese uh coach that was alongside him when Ronaldo was there? Eusebio. It wasn't Eusebio. Um but the point is that they actually did the coaching on the training field and he did the man management.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

And I think where Mourinho was good is the man management, but he would have people like I think he had Steve Holland, didn't he? Um who were actually on the training field. Right. But anyway, we're going off topic.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Going back to Gripreed then again, you did manage to take him out of India and he played in the Europa League. I did.

Europa League Detour And Return Home

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah. Oh, did you? It's like it's like Ali Al Habsi, you know. I I I knew this rule after Ali Al Habsi. You've got to play 75% of all international games. Well, I knew that. So, and I knew the way after Ali Al-Habsi, I knew the way how to do it. And I wanted you know, I paid for Ali Al Habsi to go to, you know, and he went to it he went exactly the same way to Norway, you know, for a year, got his work permit, I was doing the same thing with Goodprint.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Was he with Stabeck as well, Ali Al Habsi?

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yes, yeah, he was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, you know, because I I just rang the goalkeeper coach up and he says, you know, because he sold Ali he was playing, they sold him for five million.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

You know, to um so what happened was with Goodprint, I was going exactly the same way.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

And you know, I couldn't I couldn't do it because I wasn't w I was working for the Oman Football Federation with Ali. I wasn't working with the with the Indian.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

So you didn't have that hands on as what you said.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

I didn't have the hands-on.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Right. You know, I I And was there also sort of friction from the Indian Federation where they were actually stopping you?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

When when I sent him to Starbeck, you know, I'll ring if I was working, I'd I'd go down to the general secretary and say, I want two tickets. You know, two, to uh to Norway, because I want his work permit.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

They they wouldn't pay for the ticket. You know what? Pay for the bloody ticket.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Because they don't have uh uh I I find a lot of them are weak minded. And what they would do is they would look at their budget uh federation all federations, by the way. This isn't just Indian Federation, all federations. They're very weak minded. They don't have that mental strength that we're gonna talk a lot about. And the reason I say that is they would look at their budget and go, this guy's not gonna make it to the top. It's like I'm agreeing with you. Couldn't kick a step. Why are you shouting at me? Because I'm agreeing with you. You couldn't kick a steady ass. Oh no, I'm agreeing with you. God damn it. So um the the point is they would look at the budget and go, like, we're not spending money on tickets to send this kid for trials in Norway.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I can see his face. I can't go, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

So they wouldn't spend the money because they didn't have that belief. And Budgie had the same thing in Oman, which is you know, when you're saying there's a chance this guy can go to the Premier League, everyone's looking and going, well, no one's done it before, so therefore it can't be done. It's like saying, Well, we're not gonna go to the moon because no one's done it before.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Yeah. And then you know what you're gonna do. Judy, you know what to do when he when he makes when he when he makes when he makes the grid. Hey? Yeah.

Coaching Risks, Youth Focus And Gatekeepers

SPEAKER_01 18:04

You know what to do. They'll claim him then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

You're off camera now.

unknown 18:10

Me.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Just your belly being seen.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Me! It's all me.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Get back in position, by the way. Next to your microphone.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

It's all bloody me. That's what it's like. That's what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

But they didn't even let him do that, right? They they didn't let him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

You know, it's it's it's you need India. There's some pretty fantastic players in India.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

You need a hero. You know what it is. You need a hero.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

You know what it's like. You know what it's like. You know, they they need it's it's Brazil. India is Brazil. If you if you've ever been to Brazil, you've been to India, which I've been many, many times. You've been to Brazil a couple of times.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Have you been to Brazil?

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Bloody Christ, I have. It's dog put me off again, I am down. You know, it's it's India is Brazil because there's a lot of poverty there. You know, the the lads wanting to play football, and it needs somebody like me who take them out. But, you know, I'm fighting, you know, it's that's that's the easy bit.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Why did he go back in then? You did take him out, you paid for it, he did the Europa League, all of that, but he's back in India now. I know. Why?

SPEAKER_03 19:27

He was he was threatened. By the Indian FA. So it was the advent of the Indian Super League at the time, and basically he was told, because obviously by that point he'd become one of the star names. He was the first and still the only Indian player to play in UEFA Europa League Company. And he should have been in the Premier League. So they basically said if you don't come back uh to the Indian Super League as a as a star name, um your and uh this is the exact quote, your position in the national team and your consideration for the national team will be under threat.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

So basically saying you you may not play for your country if you don't come back.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Oh shit, you know, that is absolutely crap. Yeah, it is absolutely crap because he's the best goalkeeper in India by far. And he should never threaten him like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

But that's the politics of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

That's the politics of him, which it kills football. Oh, it does, yeah. You know, these people behind the bloody scenes, you know, they're they're they're um they're killing football.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

But Alice.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

They want to be bloody noticed.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah. Ali al Habzi managed to go much further. Is that because the politics in Oman wasn't it just wasn't there?

SPEAKER_03 20:46

There was more than politics was the same, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 20:50

It was just the same, but yes, not worse. That's your job when you come for a course. I keep telling you when I started me, your job is to fight.

Do Coaches Need To Have Played?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Fight like well actually let me put it this way the the the issue you have, Trudy, is that uh those coaches won't take risks with their own careers? So in his particular case, he resigned. I've got to quit. He quit. He said he said, like, either we do this or I'm out. I'm out. And he was out. I was out. But how many coaches would do that? How many coaches would risk their salary coming in each month to say, this kid's got a chance, if you don't back me on this, I'm gone. How many would do that around the world? Most people wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah. And if I was working for the Indian Football Association, I'd have kicked their asses as well. You know, and I'd have made it, I would have made it public that they won't let him bloody go, they won't pay for the lad for for goodprint. Help me! For goodness sake, it's good enough, help me. You don't think he's good enough out of bloody hell, do you know?

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Is that help with an H or without an H? I don't know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

It's downer D do you do you have any regrets, uh, budgie, when it comes to Goodprit's journey in football?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Yeah, but he I could have got him out. He was a bloody great talent. Great height. Great spring.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Height with an H or without an H?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Oh stop it. Let him finish.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

With good print. It it it put you in hospital. It put you you when he came out, it put you in the bloody hospital and break your libs. You know, to get the ball out of his box. You know, he had that I seen it first when when I seen him. You know, when you're a goalkeeper, you don't think about hurting yourself, you don't think about hurting them. You put him in the bloody hospital. You give him a crack.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Hurt with an H or without an H?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Out. Out Out! No, it Good Pitt Good Pit would kill you. It would kill you to get the ball out of his box and not let the ball in the net. He would do it. He should have been the first Indian player, and after that, you know, then it's another war. Because when when like Al Habzi went to, you know, to England, should have been second one.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

We hope it breaks the dam. But it doesn't, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

And that that was my next question, right? We have uh an Aliyal Hubzi in uh in Oman. Is there a second Ali Al Habzi?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Of course there is, there's always always a follow-on. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Have we seen it from Oman, haven't we?

SPEAKER_03 23:25

It's stars aligning, is what it is. They call it bottling uh lightning in a bottle, don't they? Bottling lightning. The lightning in a bottle, they call it. Um it you've got to have a certain amount of stars aligned. So take, for example, the Ali Al Habzi story. If you take the whole thing, well, for Ali Alhabzi to end up in the Premier League, you've got to dial all the way back and go, Budgie has to get the job as the coach of the Oman FA in Oman, and then you keep going back and you go, well, but it was Ian Porterfield, wasn't it? Ian Porterfield, yeah. Ian Porterfield has to become the coach that is the one who hires Budgie, and then you keep going back, you played with Ian Porterfield. Oh, he was your coach.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

It was my coach.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

It was a coach, yeah. So you keep dialing back and going, well, if Budgie had never played with Ian Porterfield and Ian Porterfield never got the job in Oman, and then Budgie hadn't gone to Oman, and you see what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Well, there's a butterfly effect. Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

The stars have to align. And sometimes you'll have the talent, you might have a top coach, but they're not in the same place at the same time.

Tease For Next Time And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's time to end the podcast, but I want to ask you about Versace before we do end it. Tell me what is the story.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

That's another story for another day. Well, that's that's a TV story, though.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

It's actually a donor.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

That's a TV story.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

You have to tell us.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

No, it's a T it's the TV story.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Tell us.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

It's the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

No, what I'm gonna say to the cameras. He made me uh do this. He made me ask me, ask him about Versace, and now he does this.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

He's a piss bottom.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Thank you, budgie, for your services, for your enlightenment today and for your insights. And thank you, Joe, for nothing.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

For bullshit.

The Butterfly Effect Of Breakthroughs

SPEAKER_01 25:05

For bullshit. And thank you to all the viewers for watching us and joining us yet again. We will be back with another episode of Chai Football very, very soon. Ciao.