Where Are the Real Christians? When Racism Invades Faith Ep 26

A single “compliment” can split the room and the heart. When someone said a Black speaker was “well spoken for a Black man,” it wasn’t praise—it was a wound layered over years of unspoken injuries. We open that moment and use it to trace bigger fault lines inside churches — steeped in politicized DEI debates, and the heavy cost of being asked to teach, absorb, and forgive all at once. Alongside my friend, licensed professional counselor Britni Cannon, we dig into what these repeated cuts do to the body and the mind—and how a living faith can hold space for both hurt and hope.

We talk plainly about betrayal when people we’ve prayed with hold beliefs that harm our families, our kids’ opportunities, or our livelihoods. We name the economic pressure intensifying these divides—stalled salaries, rising costs, and the anxiety of caring for both children and aging parents. Britni offers mental health tools that are simple and humane: accept that two emotions can coexist, name what’s true in your body, and ground yourself before choosing your next move. From there, we push back on easy narratives about DEI, contrast fear with data on promotions and leadership, and challenge the myth of colorblindness by honoring culture, story, and the image of God in every person.

What emerges is a path that resists both denial and despair. We set boundaries around labor and education, refuse the role of spokesperson, and still choose compassion anchored in Scripture. We breathe, we pray with specificity, we report harm when needed, and we keep our identity rooted in something stronger than a job title or someone else’s comfort. If you’re carrying exhaustion, invisible bruises, or a faith that feels threadbare, this conversation offers steady practices and a clear reminder: peace is not passive; it’s practice, and it’s possible.

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Transcript

Microaggression That Lingers

SPEAKER_03 0:00

And at the end of this, we do the training, go through the whole piece, and here's the microaggression. She says, Oh, he was really well spoken for a black man. And the the anger I felt internally of that you think that's a compliment, but how disrespectful to the all three of us sitting here. People, you just don't understand how that soaks into someone. Right. And everything in me wanted to have a nice little conversation with her. But I was quiet and on my way home, I internalized it. I felt like I had let my other coworker down.

Kelly Introduces Bonus Series

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Hi friends, this is Kelly Johnson, and you're listening to a bonus episode of In the Flow. This is where I step outside of our normal season themes to share what God is placing on my heart. Sometimes a story, sometimes a prayer, but always spirit-led. If you're new here, make sure to check out past episodes and full seasons where we go deep on themes that really matter. And don't forget, you can also watch the video version of In the Flow on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a beat.

Where Are the Real Christians?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

In today's conversation, we continue to explore the question: where are the real Christians? This time we're going to examine this question from more of a mental health perspective.

Meet Counselor Britney Cannon

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I'm joined by a great friend of mine, Britney Cannon, a licensed professional counselor with more than 15 years of experience. Brittany gives us some practical tools about how to navigate the repetitive injuries that we can face during really divisive times. And then she's also going to walk with us as we talk about how do we face these challenges as believers and how do we remember both biblically what scripture tells us while also honoring our bodies and our mental health. Thank you so much for joining this conversation today. And I hope that you will share what you think and what you're taking away from this conversation. I appreciate a comment from a listener and I'll share that with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Hey Kelly, I just finished listening to your podcast. It was so, so great. You were so eloquent and talking about your experiences and what you went through. And what I really love is that I think so much of the conversations are stopping there. You know, it's like this is what I was feeling, this is what I was feeling. But you really then, you know, elevated it by not staying there. You then said, okay, this is what, this is how I'm processing that. Um, this is how I'm naming and noticing what I'm feeling. And I think that really is the next level. So I just wanted to leave you a quick message to say that I just really found it um helpful and different and you know, kind of a conversation that we need to be having now.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Thank you so much for sharing your note with me about how you're feeling about this current conversation, this

Listener Feedback On Processing

SPEAKER_01 3:05

current mini-series of In the Flow. Please send in your comments. Message me on Instagram or on LinkedIn. Brittany, thank you so much for being here today. Um, I know that this is unfortunately not the easiest of conversations that we're gonna talk about, but I appreciate your willingness to lean in with me, lean in with us, and to help us as well. I'm sure you've got some great things to share just from a kind of therapeutic clinical standpoint, but also as a woman, as a believer, as a woman of color. So um thank you for joining us. Let's kind of talk about before we go into like

Inviting Audience Reflections

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Brittany, the licensed professional counselor. Um, before we go into that, let's talk to me how you how you have been processing, maybe personally, the divide that you see in the church, in the races. What has that journey been like for you?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

I think it's been incredibly difficult, eye-opening. You know, I have people that I love and care about that I thought were close friends that I've learned that have different political beliefs in mind. And in the past, differing political beliefs didn't necessarily mean that you don't appreciate me as an individual. It hadn't been so polarizing in the past. And I think knowing that, experiencing that, and having true bonds with people that feel and align with something that's fundamentally different than who you are as an individual is really disheartening. And it finds you find this space of you're constantly questioning. Well, I know them this way, right? And I didn't have an issue before, but now that this has come out, do I have an issue? Can we still be friends?

Personal Impact Of Church Divide

SPEAKER_03 4:57

How do I feel about you? And so I think it's been very difficult to find that space to just be with people and being accepting when something is so divided. I just the world is very divided. And it I can't remember a time, you know, outside of America, right? The civil rights movements and things of that nature when we've been so fundamentally divided and it's disheartening. It's sad to see too the world, you know, you see restaurants closing left and right because they can't afford to continue businesses going under because you know, different things are happening and they can't sustain. And so you begin to wonder what the world looks like outside of this time period, right? Um, but then also trying to stand strong on faith and knowing that God is sovereign in all things. And so trying to find that balance between the two. I think the thing that has kept me afloat is thinking that two emotions can exist at the same time. And I don't have to decide which one is more prevalent or which one is the right one. I can feel sadness and joy at the same time. I can feel disappointment and hope, right? I can feel disappointment and love at the same time. So just standing in that and allowing whatever I feel is kind of where I've been. But it's been, it's been difficult.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah. Ooh, I love, I love that you already went there like deep and everything. Because especially the part, the only thing

Holding Two Emotions At Once

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I can think of in terms of naming what I feel, knowing that I'm interacting with people, I don't know where they stand. If they stand kind of politically, uh, and you know, even kind of spiritually, theologically, if they have a position that's, it's not so much that it's different from mine, but if they have one that is harmful for me and my well-being, that's where I've really been struggling. And it feels like a betrayal. It feels like I need to protect myself because I know that your beliefs, your political leanings and ideologies, the way you voted, let me just put it out there. The way that you voted has created harm to me and my family personally, whether that's economically through job loss, whether that's from a business perspective, business decline, not being able to thrive in my business, in my career. Even, you know, for those of us who

When Beliefs Create Harm

SPEAKER_01 7:39

have students, you know, different initiatives and programs that have gone away because of the way that some people have voted and some people viewing, I had a woman share with me and a Christian woman. She, we were talking about kids, um, and they she also had adult kids, and um most of them were out of college. And she was like, Yeah, when I was telling her about some of the things that my son had done in school, she was like, Yeah, my kids' race didn't benefit them. And I'm like, wait a minute, back up. My son worked really hard. My son did what he was supposed to do. And he, you know, his race did not benefit him. If anything, it made him have to work harder and overcome obstacles that many other kids did not have. And so to know that this is a woman who prayed for me when I wasn't feeling well, like, how can both be true? You carry these beliefs about me and my family. You say you love the same Jesus that I love, and yet there's these under deep-rooted beliefs that you're walking around carrying, informing the way you make decisions that I'm struggling with.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Uninformed beliefs, right? Right. There's an assumption that you've reduced my child and his education, his experience to just his race. And how unfair is that, right? And and and painful to hear in a space, like you said, of someone you allow yourself to be so invulnerable

Economics, Faith, And Pressure

SPEAKER_03 9:26

with as to pray for you, right? Because that's into your spirit and your mind, your psych, all the things, right? And and so allowing someone that deep into your spirit that thinks those things, you know, it it it's definitely eye-opening and and and painful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah. So talk a little bit more about I'm like, I have so many things I want us to cover.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Because I feel like just in that, like I love that you brought in even the economic dimensions of what we're dealing with. It's not just a divide ideologically or politically. It's not just a divide in the church, because the tr the divide in the black and white church has been there for centuries. So it's not that any of this is new, but I will say that the economic pressure that many of us might be feeling, it adds to it. And so it's, I hate to use the, I feel like it's such a cliche, like the perfect storm, but there's a lot going on right now.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Well, when you see, and you know, like you said, it comes down to discussing who you voted for, right? And when you when the election was heavy in its, you know, stages before the outcome was decided, you saw signs of saying, you know, I'm voting this way because I want egg prices to be lower, right? I want groceries to be lower. And to know that, again, that minor of a factor um obviously still hasn't happened, right? Was the reason that you selected such a major role for our country, right? And the managing director of our country, right? Decided that was enough for you to say, I can ignore these major things to go for this

Existential Dread And Belonging

SPEAKER_03 11:11

one thing. And so it's economically, you know, I have a son that just started college. I wonder how what the world looks like when he graduates, right? Will he be able to afford living on his own, right? My parents that are older, you know, what is my responsibility in now helping them, right? I've always had some mindset of a responsibility, but the reality of where my parents are in my age, you know, that's coming sooner than later. And so will I be able to help them financially, right? And with those expectations. And when we're seeing that salaries have not increased, but everything else has increased, you know, it it we bear this weight of how do I do this? How do I function? And when we have social supports being taken away and um greater parameters put on them. Um and then I think we already fall in a space where we feel like, well, the social supports are not developed for me, right? I'm supposed to be self-sufficient. We're working, we have these things, you know, you're educated. But if your financial means are not matching up to what you have to support, it's difficult, right? And it creates a weight emotionally as well. I think we're living in this space. Um, I was I was reading something, and I think we're living in a space of just existential dread, right? And there's a phrase called extension where you're worried about your struggle to lead an authentic life and the incomprehensibility of existence, understanding that is my existence valid? Am I authentic? Where do I fall in that? Um, and then I think it leads into this dread and a feeling of unease, anxiety, and that weighs just heavy on us. And I think as a people, we've

Validating Complex Feelings

SPEAKER_03 12:58

completely changed. You can I I feel like you see it when you go to the grocery store and how people interact. And I think some days it's really people are really kind, and then some days you feel like you're invisible um in the world. So and it's just hard to find your space and and and where to exist and feel peace. Peace is very hard now, I think, to come by.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Absolutely. And I I mean, it's I know it's why we have to keep our eyes on Jesus. You know, we have to keep our focus there. Otherwise, we're not going to have peace. But the struggle is real and it it can feel, you know, I shared in an earlier conversation in part one, just about how I started to feel it physically, right? Wasn't expecting that. It kind of caught me off guard. But then I kind of got mad at myself that it even bothered me that much. You know, it's like, you know, why is this bothering me to the level that it is? And am I wrong for feeling this way? In that, in that existential dread that you talked about. I don't know if it's normal, but I I questioned, are these even valid feelings, right? Are these even valid thoughts? So maybe kind of help us. Is it healthy to question or I don't, I'm not even sure how to handle it, to be honest, Britt.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yeah, it it's it's a balance.

Faith Amid Confusion

SPEAKER_03 14:31

I think even spiritually, right? Um, if we go back to Ecclesiastes, if you read that, that is about human nature and the human enterprise and the experience and the situations. And we know that our human wisdom has limits, right? And so we can only pose the questions to God, we can't determine the answers, right? And finding that space where we can say, you know, God, you know, right? God, this is uncomfortable, this is difficult. Um, how do I process through this? How do I navigate? I need you to help me because I'm not okay. Um, I feel less than, and I know that's not what your word says, right? I feel inadequate and I know that's not what your word says. I feel powerless, I know that's not what your word says. And so I think walking in that, and it's it's it's kind of that conversation a little bit of existing in those two emotions at the same time and reminding yourself that it's okay. Right. I I feel this, I'm hopeless, but I trust. Right. And and and knowing that this is not new to God, I think is the only way that I find true peace in it. But it it is difficult when you're an inherent value of who God you created you to be is called into question. Or told it's wrong, or told you don't deserve anything different, right? And and it makes us create um answer a question if is who I am enough.

DEI Fears And Job Forms

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Right. Um, I was talking to my husband the other day. We were doing something, he was, I think it was a job application, and you know, they asked you the identifiers. He said, Do you answer that? Do you say? And I said, I don't know anymore. I said, I used to because I felt like it provided a little bit. It, you know, at least they had maybe some DEI numbers that they were trying to achieve. And I said, but now I said, I don't know because I don't know if that disqualifies me automatically. I know they're anonymous, right? They they can't see those things, quote unquote, right? But it just makes you question. And again, there's no good answer. And I just told him, I said, I don't know. I don't want to answer for you. You have to go with what you feel. And and that distress, that underlying unknowing about your yourself is it's I just keep saying it's painful because it is. It it makes you feel like you don't belong in the in the world.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And yet I think it just to sort of add to the the layers of the complexity, you have people, male and female, who feel like their existence is threatened, right? They feel threatened by DEI. Okay, I think this is a good time to take a quick pause and share with you some kind of behind-the-scenes insights and perspective around putting together this series, Where Are the Real Christians? It has been

Editorial Pause On DEI

SPEAKER_01 17:34

very difficult. I have questioned every aspect of what I'm sharing with you all. I have questioned all of my thoughts and feelings and responses to all the things that are going on in the world. And there was a portion of the conversation with Britney here that I was going to share, and I decided to pull it back in editing because I want to be very careful to create the type of environment on In the Flow where we can be safe to reflect and be honest and share our genuine authentic stories. And I know this conversation hits people differently. We all carry different reactions, different histories, different fears. And for me, as someone who was a DEI practitioner for a very significant portion of my career, this is a hard conversation for me to publicly have because it's been deeply painful to watch DEI become politicized and villainized. So just to kind of keep us grounded and rooted in why DEI exists, which is to name the pain, to expand the table. And for us as

Why DEI Exists And Faith

SPEAKER_01 18:54

believers, I believe it is an opportunity to honor the image of God in everyone. That's why I wrote Infinite the Power of Love, to help us reclaim a deeper understanding of God's heart, his love for justice, for diversity, and for belonging. So wherever you find yourself in this conversation, I just want to invite you to stay open, stay curious, and stay rooted in God's love. Okay, let's get back to it.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

From my experience, what I've seen in the space, right, um, it's the qualifications. I know that I am qualified, right? I know that I have the experience, and I don't want you to exclude me simply because of the color of my skin or that I or my anatomy or that I have a disability or don't have a disability, right? Even down to the veteran status, right? And so I know that I've worked really, really hard to achieve everything that I wanted to achieve in life. Um, and so I know that I'm qualified. And,

Qualified Yet Excluded

SPEAKER_03 20:05

you know, you even see the disclaimers on job applications or descriptions, people of color and minorities don't apply because they don't fit all of every single qualification, right? And we've seen these instances where, you know, it's the opposite at times for people that don't fit those standards, right? Those expectations. And so I think that it's just balancing the field, right? Balancing the opportunity, right? And don't exclude me just because I look different than the rest of your C-suite. Right. I have a right at the table too. And I think that's that's the biggest thing is understanding that we're trying to level the playing field because if you think of it even back to civil rights, it hasn't been that long. It's in my parents' generation where there was segregation. Right. And the I I just couldn't because I was a black female. Um and so having these opportunities and reminding people because of the thought process, that's that's the key. Change your thought process, and we don't have to have those conversations.

unknown 21:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

And

Colorblindness Versus Seeing Fully

SPEAKER_03 21:21

see people for people and not because of descriptors, right? Or or characteristics, see them for who they are.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Well, and I mean, and you know, I've done this work for a long time. And I remember, this is before my son graduated high school, but I remember being at like a I don't know, a meeting about like college admissions and stuff, you know, those meetings you have to go to when your kids are in high school. And I remember a parent standing up, a white male standing up and saying that he was afraid that his son would get passed over for job opportunities because of DEI. And I was shocked. It was the first time I had heard that, maybe said out loud publicly. And so later, I had a one-on-one conversation with him after the meeting. And um, he was like, Yeah, you know, I'm just colorblind. And I said, you know what? I don't want you to be colorblind.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

I want you to ignore my experience, right? My culture. That's a part of everything that makes me. I don't want you to be colorblind.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Right. That's like saying, I only want to see half of you.

unknown 22:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Right? Like only show me a part, a fraction of who you are. And I and I said, I'm I'm sure you have good intentions with that. Um, but actually, I don't want you to not see who I am. And I could tell he struggled with that. I think he was a little offended that I said it. And and even, you know, his concerns about his son. I mean, I think every parent has concerns about their child being able to go out into the world and adult and be successful, stand on their own two feet. So every parent is going to have concerns about their child. I don't fault anyone for that. But I asked him, I said, you know, I know about my experiences

Data Over Fear In Promotions

SPEAKER_01 23:14

and the experiences of my son in terms of what fuels my fear. I said, but what data are you referencing when you have worries about your son or daughter being able to get a job? Because the last data that I looked at, and the data that I see in this work, is that white people and white males are disproportionately in senior leadership roles. The data that I have seen from the numerous clients that I have supported shows that white men tend to get promoted over their counterparts who are not white and male. At higher rates, women tend to hit a ceiling. People of color tend to hit a ceiling after a certain kind of promotional threshold. It's work that I've seen working for the clients that I've worked with, but also just national data. So, you know, I want to honor where people are. I want to honor their feelings. But I also think that we have to look at data. And we have to say, you know, there is a perception, there's a concern, there's a fear, but let's also look at data so that we can have a more objective view on what's really at play. And then, and I'll just say this and then I want to get your thoughts on it. And then I think as believers, whether we are black, white, brown, gray, purple, green, whatever, I think as believers, myself included, whether I'm looking at data or not, whether I'm looking at my feelings, whether I'm looking at the experiences that I've had where I have been discriminated against or a microaggression has been said to me, whatever, at the end of the day, as a believer, my confidence still has to come from the Lord, you know, that he's gonna ultimately fight my battles, that he is ultimately gonna provide a way forward for me. And at the same time, this is hard. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

You know, I was in my last role, I was sitting in a room training staff. I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree, and about 15 years of experience in the my industry. Um, I was sitting in the room training two other people. One

Trusting God And Real Pain

SPEAKER_03 25:40

was a white female, one was a black female. Black female had also had a bachelor's and master's degree. White female had an associate's, I believe. And we watched a video. It was a training video, and it was a black male speaking. And at the end of this, we do the training, go through the whole piece, and here's the microaggression. She says, he was really well spoken for a black man. And the the anger I felt internally of that you think that's a compliment,

“Well Spoken” Microaggression Story

SPEAKER_03 26:10

but how disrespectful to the all three of us sitting here in the experience that I have, the experience that she has, and the experience that you have. I'm not gonna discredit your experience, but I also know that you're working in a field where you're supporting people, and your people are not just white males, they're young black males, older black males, females in every race, right? And and what are you saying to a patient that is trying to heal from substance abuse? What are you saying to an individual that is trying to develop, refine their spirit and their purpose? And you say things like that, people you just don't understand how that soaks into someone, right? And everything in me wanted to have a nice little conversation with her, but I was quiet. And on my way home, it I internalized it. I felt like I had let my other coworker down because she was a black female in that experience, and I felt like it was my duty, because I am older than her, I felt like it was my duty to defend us in that moment. But I also knew I work on the human resources side of things, so I cannot defend us because the way I'll defend us is not going to be very human resource-like, right? And so I knew in my own way that it was best to just we were done. So we close it out, and she tried to say a few more things to me. And I was very, okay, thank you. We're done here. And I had to report it. And luckily, the human resources team on that side handled it, and it culminated in her losing her job. But the fact that I have to, when I'm teaching you, I'm in I'm providing tools and resources for you, and then you that's your career, right? It it was so demeaning to me as an individual,

Reporting Harm And Consequences

SPEAKER_03 28:05

just painful. Just it breaks something within you, right? And then having to tell that story to people that you work with, and even in situations, other roles of having to one person said there was an incident at work where someone felt racially targeted, one of our counselors, another black female, and felt racially targeted and human resources handled it, but someone else was speaking to me about it and said, Well, she just got mad and ended the session because she didn't like the way someone spoke to her. And I said, I have to stop you there because it's greater than not liking how someone spoke to her. She was racially targeted by the comment of this individual. So it's not I she was just upset, she was disrespected and felt like that was her best way. So I think you if you say words like that, but you can't understand why she won't consistently come to you in these issues, that's why. Right. And then so having to be, you know, I don't want to be the voice for all people of color in my organization. I don't have to teach you guys. I don't want to have to be the mouthpiece. I don't want you to come to me when there's a question about, you know, diversity on our on our staff.

Not The Mouthpiece For All

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Do you think we handled that right? I don't know. Do you think you handled it well? I'm not, I'm not the voice for everyone, right? And so being one of the well, the only black female in leadership in my role, you know, I'm like, I and and then you become, you feel like you're you're, you know, the militant one, right? Right. Where we're a step away from raising our fists. But I'm like, I just want you to see me as an individual. I want you to respect me as who I am. But I don't, I'm not the mouthpiece for everyone. Go do your own work, go do your own studies. And to me, if you're the VP of human resources to come to me and say, Well, I think we are diverse because we have people from all different um work experiences. Okay. Not my role, not my job to educate you, right? While I'm still trying to stay afloat because I know how much I have to do to just be seen as equal, right? And and and valued for my work, not valued because I check a box for enough diversity.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Yeah. Yeah. Exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

It is exhausting. And I think, you know, in part one, I talk about like those repetitive injuries, the repetitive trauma of those microaggressions, of you know, some people call it the double tax of being an underrepresented person in an organization, right? Whether you're, you know, whatever

The Double Tax At Work

SPEAKER_01 31:03

your diversity is, so to speak, that there's this double tax because not only are we absorbing comments daily, but then we're also expected to educate people. We're also expected to extend an inordinate amount of grace, which I think being a believer, that that pressure to extend grace gets even higher, right? And so I'm just wondering, you know, what advice or perspective would you share with us for those of us who do encounter these repetitive injuries and yet we're trying to trust God, we're trying to move forward. Like, what do we do? I know we covered a lot of territory today. Brittany and I shared some stories that are personal about our experiences, and and I want to just pause and say that I know that you also have

Toward Healing Next Time

SPEAKER_01 32:04

your own experiences. When we pick back up on the next episode of In the Flow, the conversation with Britney will continue right where we left off, and we'll move into a conversation about healing and staying grounded and rooted in Scripture and the presence of Holy Spirit as we navigate these difficult times. I want to thank you for leaning in with me and joining me on this journey. Please share with me your feedback. I love hearing from you. And before you transition, I just want to encourage you to pause and take a breath and maybe bring before the Lord anything that's stirring in your heart or in your mind. Notice how you're physically feeling as well. And let's all remember to keep our eyes focused on

Breath, Prayer, And Peace

SPEAKER_01 32:57

the Lord, knowing that he will keep us in perfect peace as our eyes stay locked on him. Thank you for flowing with me today. Subscribe to In the Flow on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube, and be sure to grab your free devotionals on my website, iamkellyjohnson.com. Until next time, stay in the flow.