In The Flow with Kelley Johnson, Women Pursuing God's Spirit in Life + Leadership

The Listening Leader: How Attunement To God Transforms Everyday Leadership Ep 31

• Kelley Johnson • Season 4 • Episode 31

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What if the most courageous move in your leadership isn’t pushing harder, but pausing to listen? Kelley sits down with Tracy Matthews, executive director of Attune to Grow, a Harvard-trained leader who traded a high-powered path for a Spirit-led life. Tracy recounts her first encounter with the Holy Spirit, the costly yes that followed, and the years of uncertainty that taught her to hear God with clarity. Together we explore how attunement turns leadership from solitary striving into a daily practice of union, where decisions carry peace, teams share courage, and results come with less exhaust and more joy.

We unpack the often-missed link in the faith-and-work movement: listening leadership. Tracy explains spiritual direction as a safe, artful space to notice God’s movement and name both the good and the broken. Then we bring those same postures onto the court of real leadership through Attune to Grow’s team-based approach. You’ll hear how brief pre-meeting pauses and a simple key relationship lens can recalibrate a day, a project, even a boardroom culture. Even in secular contexts, leaders can carry God’s presence with a quiet authority that shifts rooms and opens possibilities.

Connect with Tracy and the Attune To Grow team -  https://attunetogrow.org/

If you’ve ever asked how to tell God’s voice from your own thoughts, you’ll find practical exercises, stories, and a gentle invitation to taste and see. We talk about resisting the grind with Sabbath-like rhythms, trading control for trust, and becoming trees by living water that bear fruit in season. Tracy shares free resources to try guided attunement with a live decision, and we close with a reflective prayer for anyone longing to lead from rest and courage. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs fresh peace at work, and leave a review to help more leaders find their way into the flow.

Stay in the flow—subscribe wherever you listen, watch on YouTube, and download free devotionals at iamkelleyjohnson.com.

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Looking for leadership community?
RAYAH is my Spirit-led leadership cohort for Christian women who want to grow in both spiritual authority and executive excellence. Learn more and join the interest list here https://www.iamkelleyjohnson.com/rayah

EMERGE! Rise-up, Be Fearless, Take Possession of Your Purpose https://a.co/d/hrZWQGr
Kelley's book about overcoming trauma to find your God-given purpose.

INFINITE: The Power of Love https://a.co/d/51Fy4eq
A six-session Bible study about diversity, equity and inclusion.

Kelley Johnson is a creator, builder, and catalyst who helps leaders achieve breakthrough—personally, professionally, and spiritually. She spent 20 years in corporate leadership before founding KEIRUS, a learning and talent management firm serving thousands of leaders worldwide. 

This show is not a substitute for professional therapy or advice. If you need professional support, we encourage you to seek a qualified mental health, medical, financial, legal, pastoral or other accredited professional.

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Keywords: Christian women, Spirit-led living, Holy Spirit, faith podcast, women in leadership, working ...

Becoming A Listening Leader

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to In the Flow, a podcast for women pursuing God's spirit in life and leadership. I'm Kelly Johnson, and this season we're exploring what it means to become the listening leader. Because clarity and alignment with the Lord create a more impactful leader. Each conversation invites you to slow down, lean in, and lead from a place of attunement with the Lord so that we can grow in spirit-led wisdom and authentic power. Let's get in the flow. Today's conversation is with my dear and special friend Tracy Matthews, who is the executive director of Attune to Grow. Tracy has been so instrumental in my journey of becoming a listening leader. So I want to share her with you today. Tracy is smart, brilliant, graduated from Harvard with an MBA, worked at big Fortune 100 company. But her heart and her capacity to hear from the Lord and to cultivate others' ability to hear from God is so special. And I'm so grateful. You are in for an amazing treat. So let's get in the flow. Well, Tracy, I think you know that I have wanted us to have this conversation for so long, and I am just thrilled to have you join me to talk about what it means to be a listening leader. I feel like you embody this so much, and you have been instrumental in my own growth of attuning to God, hearing his voice in new and different ways. And I would love to just sort of get started with how did you get to where you are in attuning to God? Like what was that like?

SPEAKER_00

Well, let me first say just

Tracy’s First Encounter With God

SPEAKER_00

thank you for having me. I feel like we are such kindred spirits in this, like central to our calling is attuning to God in our leadership. So it I'm just so glad to be here and grateful for your work in the world. But as far as my journey and how I got here, I mean, there's so many ways to cut that. But what I'll say is it's been by God's leading and it's been out of need.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'll start this way. Um, I had my first known encounter with the Holy Spirit in church one day. It was 2007. I still remember it clearly. It hadn't been a part of my faith tradition. I had been a believer for, oh, I don't know, six or eight years by then, but I didn't know the Holy Spirit still did this kind of stuff. Um, but I had this experience where I knew it was God and there was a sense of calling in it. And it was a very vague sense of calling. And I was like, what do you mean? What does that mean? And God was like, there was almost words to this part where like, Tracy, I just want you to say yes. And I'm like, You're God, so yes. But what does that mean? What does that mean? And he was, and it was gone, it was done. It was like literally like that fast. And I'm like, I just said yes to the God of the universe, and I don't even know what I said yes to. So I went brawling to my pastor, and long story short, he had the wherewithal to affirm the encounter and put me in touch with a woman who is still my spiritual director. And that's kind of where it began. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So take us to that moment, like bring us there with you. If we were an observer to this encounter with you and God, what would we maybe see or feel? What would we have a sense of maybe? What was that like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it was kind of all of a sudden. I was watching a video cast of a sermon. And it was a topic that I care about. So I'm I'm guessing you would have seen me paying attention, and then you would have seen my eyes go glassy and tears start to fall. It was like, what is happening? I don't know what the look on my face must have been. But in that moment of, I just want you to say yes. I am I'm sure I look very confused because again, I it was very vague, but I knew it was God. I knew there was calling. And then I said yes, and then it was done. And so I'm like, I don't know, I'm an Enneagram 3 at performer, a cheaper. And I'm like, I just said yes to the God of the universe, and I I have failed already. I don't even know what I said yes to. So you would have seen just like instant tears and like blubbery bad tears. And my husband was there and he was like, What is happening? It wasn't an audible voice of God. He just knows that I just fell apart all of a sudden. That's what you would have seen.

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's no there's no such thing as bad tears, um, especially uh for the to the Lord. But um, so I'll share that uh I had my first open vision uh probably a year or almost two years after COVID. And I know that it was after COVID because we had just started going back to church in person. And it was during praise and worship. I do dream, and I, you know, the Lord speaks to me through dreams, but I hadn't had a ton

Open Vision And A Mile Marker

SPEAKER_01

of, I don't know if I'd had an open vision where I'm awake before this moment. And I saw this scene, this picture unfold and it felt like in front of me. It felt like I was seeing it in real time, even though I was supposed to be singing. And I don't even I don't know if I was crying. I don't remember now, but like I remember I had to sit down. Like it was, it was so powerful. Like I I was like, whoa, what is this? And I I got, I think I stood back up and I was like, okay, I'm gonna sing. I like like get yourself together, do what you're supposed to do. And it just the vision, the the scene would not go away. Like I kept seeing it. And I was like, okay, I can't erase it. I still remember the song that was playing. Well, I don't remember the name of the song, but if I hear it right now, it's like I always sort of go back to I see the vision again as soon as I hear the song. Um I think it's the song, I think it's Maverick City, Dearest Father, Most Beautiful. Um, it's whatever that song is. And uh I did I knew in that moment that I needed to write down what I was seeing. And so I just got out my phone and I'm like typing away, trying to remember and capture the moment as much as possible. And I don't know if that's happened, it's only maybe happened one other time since then. So again, I just don't get very many open visions, but those encounters are so amazing. And I for me, the first one especially was it felt like an invitation. And I got a sense of that I needed to keep doing the work that I was doing in my business, but also in my own spiritual formation and growth. And the quick version of the vision was I saw perhaps an angel, and uh he was just he nodded his head at me as he it's almost like we locked gazes. And you know, it's whole the Holy Spirit, because there were no words spoken in the vision. I didn't hear anything, but it was like a knowing. And the knowing was keep going, you're doing the right things, and that what you're doing is not just for your business, it's also in you.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. And would you say that was uh sustaining for you in the months and years ahead or absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Like I held on to that and I still hold on to it, right? Like I still, I don't know if I've actually seen the manifestation of all that that meant, but it's definitely a mile marker. It's like one of those key milestones in my journey.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and what I would say is like this, you know, when we can attune to the Holy Spirit, it helps us with wisdom, helps us navigate. But like in my own journey as an entrepreneur, as a wayfinder, this like it has kept like the presence of God has kept me going.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because part of my story, um, I mean, the the things that have become a tune, well, actually it's been almost 10 years. Wow. Yes. Um and I left, you know, after that sense of call, I ended up leaving like a fairly, I don't know, respectable, like um, lucrative, like a legit career.

SPEAKER_01

Legit.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. I know exact I know exactly what you mean. Yes. And follow the set, I mean, I I knew it was God, but it there were years before it became

Leaving A Lucrative Career

SPEAKER_00

anything. And years of like no money and years of stress because it's like, this, this is the coolest thing, and I don't know how to do this. Years of God teaching me to like give up my plans because I have no idea what I'm doing. And those hard conversations of like loved ones who are like, I know you're into this God thing, Tracy, but you know, you're very well educated. Like, is this the best and highest use of your giftings or what God has given you? Like, you're you're not sleeping while you don't look great. Are you sure this is what God has? And through all of that, it's that sense of like this is what the spirit of God is asking of me. So, like, I don't know where this is going, and I don't know how to get there, and I don't know if we'll get anywhere.

SPEAKER_01

This is what I'm gonna do. Yeah. So I want in a moment to talk about the work that you do today through Attun to Grow. But I know that there's a there's a big gap between that encounter. Thankfully, you had the privilege of being affirmed very quickly by a pastor. But like, what was your journey to you had a sense of a call, but you weren't exactly sure what you said yes to, and let, and yet you're like making a commitment to the God of the universe, right? So, how did you discern what was that process like or journey? Because I don't mean process in step four, you do

Discerning Call Without A Plan

SPEAKER_01

this, but what was your journey to discover and have it unfold all that God was calling you to?

SPEAKER_00

Man. Yeah, I love that you said step four because that's what I was looking for. Like I was like a very, I was an engineer, like very linear. So when I went to my pastor, I'm like, this just happened and cuts at this, and like, what are the 47 steps I need to take so that I actually can do what God called me to? And he was like, whoa. And he ended up putting me in touch with the woman who's still my spiritual director. And so I went to her and what are the 47 steps I need to take? And she's like, whoa. And she just slowly started helping me recognize the voice of God. And it's I mean, man, she just undid me. I'm not, you know, not not that she was meaning to do that, but that's just what happens. I mean, it probably took all of like two sessions. So at the time, I like I'm a new creation. And back then, I would have been one of like the Uber type A's, like agenda for every moment of the day, workaholic type. And literally, like our second meeting, I come home to my husband, and I'm like, so we've been married by then, I don't know, seven or eight years. And kids were always like seven or eight years in the future, like no matter how far along we progressed. They were always out there because I had all this work to do. So you had no children yet at this point. No, okay, no, no, no. They were still seven or eight years or six or seven years in the future, like that. But like they always were. But the second, like the second meeting with my spiritual director, I come home and I'm like, I think we're supposed to like maybe move to the suburbs and have babies. And I'm like, please tell me not no. But he was like, Yeah. And I'm like, Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

That's how it was. I but okay, help us because I feel like that's a big leap. That's a big step, especially for someone who sort of kind of I don't mean this disrespectfully, but you were sort of kicking the motherhood can down the road, right? Like, okay, one day, later, later. So how did you get that discernment or direction enough to be like, I think this is what we're supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, like, once you just kind of open yourself, at least for me, once I open myself up and heard God anew, I mean, I will say that probably my primary spiritual gift, or maybe just because I'm like a people pleaser and product of tiger parenting, like I just say yes of God. It's God. Like, of course, you just say yes. So all it takes is to get a sense of it. But literally, this is how it worked the first time she got to know me. And I'm sure in her head she's like, wow, she's a workaholic. She's she's something. But she didn't say that, of course. But she's like, I'd like you to do this exercise. I want you to divide your week up into seven days and three chunks of time per day, morning, afternoon, evening. And what I want you to do is ask God to show you however he wants you to do that allocation of those 21 chunks a week on average. And then I want you to track what it actually looks like. So time for work, time for family, time for fun, time for grocery shopping, whatever you want, however you want. And it was like I saw that map of like, God wants time for him and time for my husband and time for life, and like, and it's all work. So, and then it was like, God, do you want something different with my time? And then that kind of opened up the communication channel, and that was it. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Before we continue, let me ask you, have you ever wondered how to tell if it's God's voice or just your own thoughts? In the Flow is so much more than a podcast. Each season, I produce a free resource to support your growth. And for this series on the listening leader, I created a free devotional called How to Hear God at Work. It'll help you slow down and recognize God's leading in everyday decisions, whether you're leading a team, a business, or your own heart. Visit

Spiritual Direction Explained

SPEAKER_01

im KellyJohnson.com and click on the resources section to get your free copy today. I wanna sort of stick a pin in something real quick because in this season of The Listening Leader, we're gonna talk about the different people that help us discern and attune better to the voice of God. We're going to talk about the role of coaches, of mentors, and a little bit sort of sponsors as it comes to career-related discernment. I would love for you to explain in case someone is new to spiritual direction. Can you kind of highlight, like, what is that and maybe the role of spiritual direction in attuning to God?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Um, so what I'll first say is after I had met with my spiritual director a few times, I started running around telling everyone, like, she's the mouthpiece of God. Because every time we, you know, we would meet, I would have these revelations. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, she told me and now I know. And then she heard me say it one day or something, but she was like, oh no, Tracy, that is not what's happening. And like a good spiritual director, she gave me a book on the art of spiritual direction, which kind of in summary says, hey, the role of a spiritual director is to help you recognize the movement of God in your life. So they create a container or a very safe space where you feel held by God and by the director, where you can let go of your own efforts to figure things out. You can kind of let your heart relax wide open, even if it's painful. And in that spaciousness, you can start to pull threads of like what God has been speaking, but what you haven't been able to surface because there's just too much pressure in life.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So they hold the space and help you draw out the threads of like, oh, this is what God is showing me. This is what God is saying. This is what the path forward might look like.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

I think let's talk about Attuned to Grow, which you are the executive director of. Tell me about the work you do because I think it's it would be kind of interesting for people to understand that, especially since we just talked about spiritual direction and that attunement can sort of be like a cousin to a friend of spiritual direction. And so talk about attuned to grow, the organization, what you do, and then we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely. So um, spiritual directors and attuned to grow were all aiming for the same thing, which is helping people

Attune To Grow’s Approach

SPEAKER_00

attuned to God, meaning we better recognize his presence and guidance, can tap into that, and can respond in resonance and life gets better. So that work is all the same. And we'll largely think about it as like a set of like muscles, movements, postures that we take before God. Now, what I would say about Attunes work in the world as a cousin to spiritual direction is that spiritual direction, you know, a lot of the methodologies and the ethos of it came out of like the desert mothers and fathers. So there is like a almost like a retreat mode. Like, hey, we're gonna like get out of the busyness of life and create a protective environment that lets you just come before God heart wide open. And usually a gifted spiritual director, which is which is like an art form, really, can help you slowly pull those threads that I was talking about. So that's the work of spiritual directors. The work of attune, we would say, is actually same posture, same muscles, but done in the context of leadership. We'll say if attunement is, we'll say a skill set or capacity you learn, we'll say it's like learning a sport. And spiritual direction, you might consider like learning to shoot hoops in your driveway with a coach that's helpful. And at a tune, we would say, that is super helpful and you need to do that. And the nature of our work is we're going to coach your team on the cord of your leadership. So it maybe it's on the, I don't know, factory floor or in the boardroom, but wherever your actual context of where the game of leadership is played, that's where we want to practice these postures of attunement. And it becomes a team sport because that's how leadership is done. So how do we play this game together on the actual chord of our leadership? But same postures of receptivity, openness, learning how to quiet your own efforts to figure things out, all those same things, just in a different context.

SPEAKER_01

So I was so grateful to find you through my work at the time on uh a board for of an organization that focused on Christian professional women. And I think the board was trying to make some big decisions and you facilitated a session. And I was like, I love this woman. Uh and thank you. I'm like, I love her. And what I loved also, not just you, I love you, but also what was so helpful is that being an entrepreneur has been so spiritually for me, from attuning to God in my leadership, in the decisions, in the day-to-day, and really feeling like up until I met you, it was all a DIY effort. It was all trial and error, all sort of shaped in the fire and also shaped in isolation. Um, like I felt like Elijah in the cave for the seven to eight years before I met you. And I didn't have like language or a container or a label to describe the way I was trying to live and lead. And the fact that we're talking about being listening leaders in this season of In the Flow, it just feels so appropriate. And of course, to have you here a part of it, because you were so instrumental in my journey of making it practical, but also giving me tools and a community of other leaders who are on. On similar journeys. And so the work that you and Attune have been doing,

Faith And Work Needs Attunement

SPEAKER_01

will continue to do, is just so critical. And I wish I'm I'm looking forward to the day that it becomes common knowledge, what spiritual attunement is, because I think right now there's a faith and work movement that has grown great legs, right? I feel like there's there's a community, there's a population, even globally, that is really pursuing faith and work integration. My concern is that we have been missing the attunement part of the faith and work movement, where it's holy spirit-led, because I think that there are many Christian leaders, but I see a difference between being a Christian leader and a spirit-led leader, a holy spirit-led leader. And so I'm just wondering how does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00

Completely. Yes, I do feel like there are many Christian leaders who are so fervent in their faith, but the way they've been formed, and especially in their leadership, is by like, it's up to me to figure it out and make it happen. We get paid the big bucks because we know how to make stuff happen. So human dependence, human excellence, human striving is the way. And it's built into the fabric of pretty much all organizational leadership, Christian or non. And so what I think God is after is like he wants his kids back in union and communion and dependence with him. And that happens by his spirit. So I am totally with you. I'm a actually attuned was born out of the faith and work movement, still a key part of it. Like both ways. I've learned so much, continue to learn so much, but we, out of our human ability to see and respond, are just no match for the schemes of the enemy and for what God actually has for us. Like He's got a fullness of life, adventure, a fruit beyond what we could ask or imagine. If we can learn how to let him lead, where we we are still all in, but we follow. And we are simply bringing our gifts to the table, knowing that he wants to include us in a story. And that changes everything. It changes the potential, but it mostly I think God is after his kids fully thriving. It changes it for me. It changes it for you. Like I could snap his fingers and everything could be as he intends. But he chooses to use us, not only because he wants to do the work with us, but because he can use the work as a means for our own formation and becoming so that we live out of this union and communion and dependence on the spirit. And life is just so much better if we can do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I'm wondering, because there could be someone listening to this right now, and they're like maybe scratching their head, like, okay, I'm I'm trying to be a good Christian at work. And I act with integrity, I do my devotional time in the morning, I go to church, I, you know, I've got my Bible app plan. Like I'm I'm checking a lot of boxes, Kelly and Tracy. What is what is this spirit-led leadership? Like, what is the distinction for someone who feels like they're trying to do a lot of good and right things?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I would say, like, good job doing a lot of good and right things. That's great. But that the work of attunement would say we need to learn how to like relax our own efforts, our own striving, so that we can open up more open receptive postures and actually hear God in new ways. So it's a different kind of work. Like early on, literally, my spiritual director would give me homework to waste time. And for where I was at the time, that was excruciating.

What Spirit-Led Leadership Looks Like

SPEAKER_01

Oh gosh. Like I'm having a hard time.

SPEAKER_00

Like, okay. Yeah. Part of the faith journey where you trust God enough to say, you will still be God, and I will still be your beloved daughter, and you will still accomplish your will, even if I am not productive for. I mean, I did it in like growing chunks of time, but like basically they're muscles that you practice. These are muscles of faith and trust at the end of the day. But our world will tell us the corporate ethos of today will tell us like that's bad. Don't do that. You're lazy or you're you're not gonna make it, or or whatever the lie might be. So it is an act of resistance. Like Sabbath rest, quiet. It is an act of resistance. And that's where it starts. And from that place, there's just a whole set of muscles and skill sets that you can learn to like receive from God. And it's like just tasting and seeing the goodness of God's presence. I mean, now it's like I wouldn't I wouldn't trade for anything. At the time, though, it feels super risky.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I feel like it's kind of like I love the movie The Matrix. And it's like, okay, am I gonna take the red pill or the blue pill? Because once you go into this new realm, it's like you can't go back. I'm curious if there's a story or an example of what it looks like to go to this other side, this other realm of being a spiritually attuned leader.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I'm usually not quick to tell stories of others. So I'll tell a story of my own. Um so I'll try and attune like a pause, whether it's a two-minute pause or a 20-minute pause, ahead of just about everything if I can. And so I did take a pause ahead of this podcast of like, okay, God, what what do you want? What do you want me to know? What do you want me to aim for? That kind of thing. Um, and I did an exercise that Atoon calls our key relationship lens. And it's a pretty basic reflection exercise where we look at usually three different relationships, and we just say, God, with this first relationship with myself, what might you want me to notice that's good or broken? And I write some things down. In this case, I chose another relationship with potential people who might be listeners here. What might God want me to notice about them and their lives that are just so good, operating the way God would intend? And what's maybe more on the broken side? And then usually I'll choose a non-human element. In this case, I'm like, how might I approach this podcast in ways that would be good and life-giving or depleting and actually broken? And then you just pause and you listen for God to show you whatever He wants to show you. And um, the imagery that came was of the river of God um just kind of flooding into the land. Um, and that has a lot of symbolism for me.

A Practical Attunement Example

SPEAKER_00

Um, if a tune had a verse, it would be Isaiah 43, 19, whereas God is like, see, I am doing a new thing. And part of it is bringing rivers in the wastelands and streams in the desert. And like these rivers of God, and then it was like there, but then it turned into Ezekiel 47. There's a lot of these rivers of God thing, but the there it was just um the river of God is moving in some big ways, and it was is around the trees that are planted beside the river. That is, there's a lot of tree imagery in scripture, but when we tap into the presence and goodness of God as this like living water, we are like trees winding along the riverbank, bearing fruit in each season. And actually in Ezekiel 47, who's he says, whose fruit is good for eating and leaves are for the healing of the nation. Right. So just that very practical, like, oh God is after his beloved for the healing of the nation. So that helps me come in with like, oh, what I gotta communicate is like attunement is for people who are feeling the press and stress of life and maybe don't feel like fully flourishing trees, but want to. And like, yes, attuning to the presence of God by the Holy Spirit is a pathway towards fullness of life. And it makes sense that it's the healing of the nations, right? Like people who listen to your podcast usually are wanting to do good work for the kingdom.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I think God is wanting to appeal towards, well, you're gonna do that work best. You'll bear the most fruit, he'll heal the nations by tapping into me, even though it feels like you don't have permission or the space or the luxury of quieting yourself before. So just like a real tangible example of like that was really helpful for me today.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that is I love that. It's so good. And I love that you chose how you prepared for this podcast as an example because so many, many of us, first of all, we're in back-to-back meetings all day with like no margin to sometimes even take a restroom break or to eat. And so I always love to try to give like practical steps that we can take. So even I'm big on time blocking personally, and I try to, the leaders that I coach, I often we usually spend some time on how do you map your day, your week, your month? How do we create more margin for the most important things and getting really clear about those priorities? And I love what you're highlighting because if we are moving back-to-back meetings, appointments, conversations, we haven't even given ourselves time to attune with God before a presentation, before

Making Space Before Meetings

SPEAKER_01

a conversation, before a team meeting. And so just that invitation of Holy Spirit and carving out time to do that allows us to show up in a way that is honoring, in a way that God's presence can show up even in circular secular situations, right? You may not even be able to express your faith. You may not be where you can quote scripture and talk about biblical imagery, but if you're carrying that, there's a weightiness to it.

SPEAKER_00

Like you bring it in your presence. There's like an oomph and a motivation and a potential that is well worth the time you set aside and the stuff you have to say no to to make that space.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yes. So talk a little bit about if someone's like, okay, Kelly, Tracy, if I was to check out this attunement thing, like what would I do and what would that look like?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we're like, if you want to just get a taste, we're big on taste and see. And I will say there are many ways to learn attunement. We have a particular style and approach designed for kind of in the mode of your leadership. But I would say go to attunedogrow.org slash practice, and you'll see a couple of free guided attunement exercises. Set aside, I don't know, 20 minutes, and it'll be for you to bring a real

How To Start Practicing Attunement

SPEAKER_00

live situation that you want God's help with. And there'll be a worksheet you print out, or you can do it on your computer, and you'll just push play, and it'll be an audio guide that will walk you through kind of a structured, first you do this, then you do this, that will hopefully help you take on those postures of attunement and actually hear from God in a new and helpful way. So that's a great way to get started. We've got other audio guides on something we call our practice portal that can take you deeper and wider into different kinds of attunement modalities. Um, and then if you really say, hey, this is something I would like to grow in and make a shift change in my leadership so that I am leading on a day-by-day, hour-by-hour basis out of attunement, then we have something called we call our greenhouse training cohorts, where over usually eight sessions, we'll train together on how to make attunement a part of our regular everyday leadership and begin to learn how to facilitate attunement, not just for me, but for me and one or two others for areas of shared leadership. So that's also a great way for those that are ready for like, ooh, I think I'm looking for going about my leadership in a different way.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And that I highly recommend the greenhouse training, which is something I completed about a year ago. It was really incredible. One of the things that I think that we minimize sometimes is the community that we gain by being a part of efforts or programs like what Atoune offers. And so I just want to put in a quick plug for that. And I want to ask you: you talked about one of the common practices within Attunes methodology of spiritual attunement is the key relationship lens and looking at the side that is reflective of the heart and character of Jesus. And then those areas that are broken, not God's full best. What happens when a leader doesn't take the time to bring before the Lord those areas of brokenness?

SPEAKER_00

So when we don't acknowledge the or confess those areas of brokenness, it keeps us from letting God heal them. We're almost like shielding them, if you will. And so if we can get used to like, God already knows it, we're just naming it, confessing it, becoming consciously aware of it ourselves. And when we do that, then God can do his work of healing. And guess what? Like, life gets better when we heal. It can be super hard to name and address and acknowledge those things, especially in the presence of God or others. But in this kind of space where ultimately it is Holy Spirit that is holding the space, it becomes like you recognize, oh, this is totally safe. That God is a God of love and patience and kindness. It is that his kindness leads us to repentance. Like so many times there is a conviction, but it's like I'm just overcome with God's kindness around it. And it makes it okay to give it back to God and say, okay, show me a new way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think there's

Naming Brokenness To Heal

SPEAKER_01

very few spaces where we can be vulnerable like that. The world's version of leadership doesn't really, I mean, we might have to kind of say, you know, I'm not great at public speaking. That's on my developmental goals. I'm gonna get better at public speaking. But typically those goals and, you know, annual goal setting, it's really not often about our internal formation, which I think spiritual attunement allows us a space, a safe space to actually journey and process on that from a variety of different angles. And there's a number of different practices or movements that we that attune teaches that allow us to explore just different dimensions of God's invitation. Would you add anything to that?

SPEAKER_00

Just the carrot of um, it sounds super, it can sound super scary, and sometimes it is, but that like he is so good, like the whole taste and see. You know, like if you're willing to be brave and stretch a little bit, he'll probably prove his goodness to you in a way that allows you to stretch a little more and then a little more and then a little more. So it there's like like I sleep better at night, I'm like more patient with my kids, I'm more hopeful, more collaborative, like all these things that we want. I am a better leader. There are real carrots in this for us if we're willing to do the hard work. Like it, it truly is a path towards flourishing and fullness of life that God wants for us.

SPEAKER_01

So beautiful. I know we could talk for a very long time because I always enjoy my Tracy time, as I call it. Um, I would love to do two things. Number one, I would love to invite you to close us in a prayer. But before we do that, just maybe one more time, remind us of where we can get in touch with Attune2Grow.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I would go to attunedogrow.org. And if you want the practice page slash practice, but otherwise, contact us. There's a button on almost every page. If you're like, hey, this is something I would like to explore for me and for my team, um, we would love to just get in contact and just help you in whatever ways we can. Wonderful. All right, let us pray. And the first thing I do, I'd like to do here is just give all of us, including all of our listeners here, just a little bit of quiet, where we'll ask God real time, hey, what might you want me to notice and attend to from what I've heard or what we've discussed? What might you want me to notice and possibly attend to? And here you're simply listening for the most loving, wisest, truth-filled voice in your head you can hear. And there's

The Carrot Of Flourishing

SPEAKER_00

a, while there's a a good bit of volume to the flow, uh, what I believe God is highlighting is just how gentle the water is flowing. There's like an ease to it. So if there's anybody who is listening that is feeling uptight or stressed out or pressured around this, anything that's come up for you here, I just encourage you to relax and let it be easy, let it be slow, let it be bite-sized as you think about what God might have for you next. I'll pray gracious God. We thank you for being a God who is doing a new thing, who is bringing life-giving water and life and love into dry, hard-checked soil. We thank you that you are here to nourish us and to bring us fullness of life, and that you do intend to use us as part of your unfolding story for the healing of the nations. We thank you for the fruit of the spirit, where it is all love and tremendous patience, facing that we are not often familiar with. That allows for a gentleness and a persistent faithfulness and hope. That you are moving, you are flowing, you're healing, you're cultivating. So we acknowledge you and your goodness, and we humbly ask for more. For we love you back. We are yours. In the name of

How To Connect And A Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_00

the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for flowing with me today. If this episode strengthened your spirit and leadership, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. Remember, deeper clarity starts in community. Visit IamKellyJohnson.com for free devotionals and to learn more about Raya Circles, where faith and leadership truly go together in the flow.