Dead and Kind of Famous
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This is the podcast where two friends - one who's a nobody (Courtney Blomquist) and one who's kinda famous (Marissa Rivera) - dive into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time and now reside permanently in Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
So if you need to escape the now for an hour and you want to show your respect for some amazing life stories that have perhaps been forgotten, hit that follow button.
Because with your help, we can make sure that the stories of Hollywood's dead never die. And believe me - these stories are WAY too good to be forgotten.
Dead and Kind of Famous
The Gregarious Aquarius : Carroll Righter
We're back, baby! Season 2 of Dead and Kind of Famous is here for you so that you can continue to joyfully think about graveyards even though Halloween has passed. And catch up with Marissa and Courtney about how they're adjusting to living across the country from one another.
But today, we're talking about Carroll Righter, "reader to the stars" and astrological legend who made horoscopes mainstream. Although he had many a celebrity client, he could never remember their names and often would refer to people as "Mr. Taurus" or "Ms. Libra". With mentions of Robert Mitchum, Marlene Deitrich, Maya Angelou and Ronald Reagan, the mashup of Hollywood stars and celestial stars in this episode is NOT to be missed.
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Hello and welcome back to Dead and Kind of Fame Season 2. This is a podcast where we dig into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time and now reside permanently in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. I'm Marissa Rivera, and I know nothing, but I do know that Courtney has an infinite well of patience when it comes to setting up tech from afar and guiding my old ass through this. We started at 8. It is 827. It has taken me 27 minutes to get my ass in gear. And and my dearest, best friend Courtney, with her infinite well of patience, has guided us here to this moment where we are recording live but separately for the first time ever.
SPEAKER_04:I know. Well, we did this actually we did do live but separately twice before.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but not not in a this is how we're gonna do this. We're gonna try to see if this works kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_04:This is not in a way where it's like this is the setup, we're trying to make it good. Like not just like this is what has to happen this week. Right, right, right. Yes. I agree. Yes. And no worries, I have practic I'm I'm I'm take that as a very good compliment because I've it's practiced patience where I don't like flip out about stuff um internally anymore. It's just kind of like, oh yeah, this happens every time.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right, right, right. I made very common mistakes, which makes me feel better. All right, introduce yourself to our audience.
SPEAKER_04:And I'm Courtney Blomquist, and I know way too much about what we're talking about today, but I don't know how to fill the hole in my heart that has developed from being away from Marissa Rivera. It can't be filled.
SPEAKER_03:Don't even try. It can't be filled. I know.
SPEAKER_04:She can't be like, you don't need new friends. You have enough friends, people like sending me articles that are like that people only need like three friends, and that's all they need. That's enough.
SPEAKER_03:Three close friends, three friends and seven hugs a day, and you're you'll be fine. It's so funny. I'm not I'm not a very jealous like girlfriend, or you know, when I was a wife, like I'm not a very jealous partner. But when it comes to my best friends, and I'm like, you aren't my best friend though.
SPEAKER_04:Which is so funny because you have like so many friends. Like, I feel like everyone is like is your friend. Everyone, everyone in Los Angeles is Marissa Rivera's friend. Like if she's met them.
SPEAKER_03:I'm friendly with most people. That's true.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I feel like I'm not enemies they know. If somebody is your enemy, they know it. You fucking know it. You know who you are out there. They'd know it. And from the look you've given, plus the side eye. Marissa, I don't we've probably talked about this before, but Marissa makes money off of her side eye. She does like when there is no space for a line, her eyes say everything, and it makes her the big bucks.
SPEAKER_05:Let me tell you.
SPEAKER_04:Girl doesn't need lines. That's true. She acts with her eyes. You could have been a silent film actress. I could have, honestly. I could have.
SPEAKER_03:Because you know, you know how like we'll go into a situation and you're like, but don't say anything about that. And it's like, well, I uh I know not to say something, but I also have to control my fucking face to my eyebrows. My eyebrows. And and I don't give and I'm just like, and don't look at Courtney, don't look at her the entire time, don't school the eyebrows, keep it, keep breathing and keep it moving, bitch. Keep it moving. Oh my god. God, well, speaking of moving, you moved.
unknown:I know.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I know. That's where that's let's explain to the hi if you're new here. Hello again. If you're if you're if you're back. We're back.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and if you're new, welcome. Um, we're so excited to have you. Truly. It's been awesome to I'm just gonna say that right now. It's been so awesome to see everybody, everybody's response to the show, mostly good. Sometimes people get like passionate about people that they're really excited about too, or that they really admire if we like say anything, you know, which is fine. Also fine. Like, I'm just glad that you feel anything, honestly. I am I'm glad you feel anything.
SPEAKER_03:And in the in this day and age, feeling anything, you're not numbing out. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you have a strong opinion, love it. I'm here for it. Keep coming back. We love strong opinions. Um we love it. So, yes, uh, but if you are new, you may not know. Originally, Marissa and I lived in the s at the same address pretty much, because I lived in the backhouse and of her home, and um and we were right there. It was beautiful. It's kind of the what everybody dreams of, really, is like when you live right next door to your party.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like can I borrow a cup of sugar? Sure. And then two minutes later is just a few minutes. Yes, or I forget on your porch.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you can forget like six things and it doesn't matter because you're like four steps away. It was it's it's yeah, it was amazing. And then now I moved to northern Minnesota, which sounds crazy, and I understand that that sounds crazy if you don't know anything about me, but my um it does. It sounds absolutely insane. Yeah, yeah, it does. Most of my husband's family live, including my in-laws, who are wonderful people who um so awesome. They're really great, and they allow me to not have to pay for child care, which is like a dream. And not only that, but like take excellent care of my daughter to the point where like I don't even I don't think about it. I don't think about it at all. Like, I'm that's amazing. You guys like if they they're taking her places, they're doing stuff like fantastic, love it. Like, she's having the her living her best life like going on their pontoon, she's having a great time.
SPEAKER_03:So in the summer, which is the best time to be in Minnesota.
SPEAKER_04:It is, yeah. And and you know, and for all of you guys for the winter, um, this is like I I'm just gonna be able to like really dive into the podcast because or make snowmen with my kid outside and like and that's it. I think I might be I think I might be okay with it a little bit. I think I'm gonna be okay with it. I don't have to like commute because I work remotely, I don't have to commute, could move here with my job. I don't have to drive through the snow every day. So, you know, I'll be okay. But she'll be fine. Yeah, that's that's my I'll be fine. That's what I keep telling myself. I'll be fine, it will be fine. I'm like I'm coming to visit anyway. It's it's in the books. So uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So we'll and we'll and we'll definitely record an episode or two while we're together too.
SPEAKER_04:In person, yes. It will be so fun. So um, okay, so what updates do you have since it's been a minute?
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, so many. My life has completely changed in like the span of three weeks.
SPEAKER_04:It's been in so honestly, like in all the best ways. I would say whatever you want to say, Marissa, you can say, but it's all really good stuff. I feel just so happy for you. Finally, you know? Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. I had a very terrible year. I had a very terrible year, very terrible personal and health and relationship and uh career, very terrible about twelve month span was awful. And everything has k now turned around and it's been like kind of lovely the past few weeks, and I'm just kind of riding high, and I'm so excited to be doing this podcast again. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_04:Me too. I'm putting a pillow behind my back.
SPEAKER_02:Get that lumbar support girl.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there we go. Okay. No, I am too. I really, really am. It's awesome. So, yes, here we are. Um, so let's go ahead and get into it then, now that y'all know about us. Um today we are looking into the life of Carol Ryder. Marissa. Carol Ryder. Do you know who Carol Ryder is?
SPEAKER_03:No. Carol spelled C-A-R-R-O-L-L Writer spelled R-I-G-H-T-E-R. I have no idea who that is. Okay. Perfect.
SPEAKER_04:Let's look at his tombstone. Lay it on me. Give me the yeah, it's just like take it in, and then I want the bullshitted version of Okay, great.
SPEAKER_03:So the tombstone is a tombstone. And it looks like a book with roses on the side of the book. It says writer, James E. Carol. Oh, James E on one side, and Carol B on the other. So Carol. Ooh. Uh 1900. Okay, Carol was born in 1900 and died in 1988. Died the year I was born. Um and that's good. 88 years, that's good. I like that I didn't have to do any math to figure that out. Thank you, Carol.
SPEAKER_04:I know. Nice, nice, nice even round numbers starting with the zeros. Love it.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Um and oh, maybe not husband. James E. Carol, 1925 to 1947. So maybe a child is buried next to her or her child.
SPEAKER_04:Well, also, I should tell you, I'm gonna tell you one thing before you can. Tell me one thing. Um Carol is a man.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Carol is a man. Carol is a man. Carol B. So maybe a brother or a child or James E. Okay. So on the left it says James E. 1925 to 1947, and Carol B. 1900 to 1988. I didn't mean to misgender you. I'm so sorry, Carol. Um, I don't think I've ever met a male Carol.
SPEAKER_04:I know somebody who named their kid Carol, and he goes by CJ. I think it's like a southern more of a southern name, but except that that doesn't make sense for this person. But well, I now I'm giving things away. I'm gonna stop talking about it. Yeah, I was like, stop talking.
SPEAKER_03:Stop talking. Okay, okay, okay. Um it's not southern.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I did give you that. It's not.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's not. Okay. Uh well, let's see. Let me get into uh like a cali I've uh Carol, uh totally cool. Um just a totally cool California boy. Uh Carol from California. Carol B for Buster. Carol, Buster Rider. And I just stoked uh to be here at Hollywood Forever Cemetery. Um, I grew up here, you know. I grew up in in Cali, uh, Northern California, but made my way to Southern California. Um, you know, pretty early on in elementary school, and and um my parents we we lived by the ocean and and everything was about the ocean. My my parents had a shell shack that we sold from, and I thought to myself, I need to get out of this shell shack and make something of myself, and I was surrounded by all the stars of Los Angeles, and I said, This is what I want to do. I have the face. I have the face that can really, really be pulled off in the talkies. Not just the silent films, but I can I can really make it in the talkies. I have a nice voice, I have a cool name. Nobody has my name. Carol Buster Rider. Carol Buster Rider. And after the unfortunate death of my little brother, there is just I knew that I had to go after my dreams because life is short.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um, love it. I want to thank you for those complete and utter lies. And um before I give you the correct information, I just want to say a personal aside that I think is relevant. Okay, Marissa. The night before I moved to Minnesota, we were outside burning little scraps of paper with our worries and fears on them in the fire pit.
SPEAKER_03:We were, we were. It was a very w witchy night we had.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we burned photos of enemies as well. We just we really did it. Um we were very witchy. Very witchy.
SPEAKER_03:And it was a new moon.
SPEAKER_04:A new moon. We it wasn't. For new beginnings, yes. Yes. And then you and our friend Jenny started talking about your dog's star signs and astrological charts in great detail. And I was like, I'll never get to experience this kind of conversation or this kind of gathering ever again.
SPEAKER_03:In Minnesota! No one's ever again. No one's gonna talk ad nauseum for 20 minutes about their dog's horoscopes.
SPEAKER_04:No, I'm literally I'm gonna have to like endure conversations about ice fishing or something. It's it's not gonna be the same. Um that is the most it's the most LA shit ever, and I already miss it so much. Um, but we all laughed because it's so true. And I mean, I think everyone is slightly curious about astrology, but maybe not to the extent that they've done a natal chart for their pet that's LA specific. Yeah. Definitely 100%. Yes. And in the 10 years I lived there, I can't tell you how many times I overheard conversations about that just sitting at a coffee shop and you know, and now it's different. Now I hear a lot of lumberjack chatter, and like I said, Ice fishing interested in an endless love. Lumberjack chatter. Lumberjack chatter, and just an endless live kind word. What is that? What is that?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I chopped down a nice oak the other day.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's like about uh there was like a really big storm that happened up here, and you know, and everybody's like, oh, oh yeah, by the way, Courtney Oh Courtney, let me let me just say this.
SPEAKER_03:Courtney moved, uh decided to move after the fires because the LA fires, because she's like, I gotta escape these natural disasters that are happening. Only to move to Minnesota and a week later experience hurricane strength winds. And and tornado watch all night.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and all the trees apparently like nine million trees fell down in this million trees. Nine million trees, and um, and so nothing felt like the trees didn't fall in our yard, the house, whatever, but it was like it yeah, everyone had fallen trees. Nine million trees?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, it was so there's been a lot of lumberjack chatter.
SPEAKER_04:A lot. There's been a lot of lumberjack chatter about like who's got a chainsaw, how you're dealing with it, and it's like, oh, like somebody's c you know, they can come and take the the pine away, but you can't do anything with it, because if you burn it, it's gonna make a bunch of sap, and that's no good for firewood. And like if you know, if anybody's asking for that, they're a novice and all this stuff, and I'm like, I well, I don't know shit, you know. So I don't know jack shit. I don't know jack shit, but it's yeah, so that that's the lumberjack chatter for sure. Um but like every other man in in this area has a chainsaw, which is also insane. Um and and you know, and that's lovely and all, it's all kind, like, oh, let me chop up your stuff. It's it's all kind, right? But I I just want to hear someone, anyone, bring up the fact that Mercury is in retrograde and it is the reason why their car broke down, even though they left the check engine light on for like four months straight. You know, I crave it. I just crave it. I want it, I want it in my life. But all of this to say, astrology and horoscopes are easy to dismiss and make fun of. But today's man of the hour, Carol Ryder, pioneered the syndicated horoscope and is largely responsible for the fact that there still remains a space in respected newspapers for a daily horoscope.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh! So he started it all. He is so LA. He was so LA before LA was LA.
SPEAKER_04:He's so LA. Pioneer, pioneer of the bullshit. So before Walter Mercado, if you haven't watched Mucho Mucho more, go back to the.
SPEAKER_03:I was just about to ask about Walter.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, uh, it's before him, before the AstroTrents and Susan Miller, and if you're fans of astrology, anybody you follow on a regular basis, there was Carol Ryder. And I think he reached a level with it then that may be impossible to reach today. So Oh my gosh, well, if you're first, if you're the first, then the first. I mean, the first for syndicated horse that like to appear in multiple newspapers, especially for America. Well, we'll get into it, but now before I tell you more, I have to acknowledge that the other man on the tombstone, James E. Ryder, is a complete and total fucking mystery to me. I tried to dive down the rabbit hole and figure out who he was, but I came up with nothing. And I'm telling you, I looked. He doesn't appear to be a sibling of Carol's, and I can't find any mention of him in anything written about Carol. So, listeners, I'm calling on you. If you have any information on this man, please tell me. I've spun stories in my mind about him, and maybe I'll break form and share some of those unsubstantiated claims of mine later in the episode. But already aren't you fascinated. Aren't you fascinated? Yeah, I am.
SPEAKER_03:God, he's buried next to an un an unfound, unknowable Unfound.
SPEAKER_04:I can't find a family member. That's wild. I don't know. I mean, it's like they're 25 years apart. Like, right? Like he died young. He was 22 when he died, James E. Ryder.
SPEAKER_03:So it's like Maybe, maybe it's his kid. I don't know. Because he's he was it maybe because that would that would make um Carol 25 when he had him, right? Or 24? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 25 when he had him. Very possible. Very, very possible. And maybe there's nothing there because it was it's too painful.
SPEAKER_04:Or because it's uh yeah, it's a secret. A secret baby upon a secret, but like upon his death, he's like, that's when I'll like acknowledge you, my my son. Um my a my angel.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no. Okay, so so we're okay, we're already going down the rabbit hole. Um, okay, we're already going to be able to do it. Fascinating that you couldn't find now. Listen, dear listeners, dear readers, dear listeners. Courtney is a master researcher. So the fact that she couldn't find anything is crazy to me. Now I have to know. Oh my gosh, please write in and tell us if you know anything. Or even write in and tell us your crazy unsubstantiated claims as well. We like to do that. Oh, yeah. We should take guesses.
SPEAKER_04:Guesses, just like, yeah, exactly. Everyone play Marissa and write in and do it. That would be fantastic. Um a self-described gregarious Aquarius. Carol Birch. I like Carol. Carol Birch Ryder. Carol Birch. Carol Birch Ryder was born on February 2nd, 1900, to a wealthy family in Salem, New Jersey. And he grew up in Philadelphia. Jersey. Ooh, I love Philly. Jersey boy. Yeah. Jersey Boy. This is like actually, like, yeah, that's kind of I mean, I don't know where Salem is actually, uh off the top of my head, but it's um not Massachusetts, Salem, New Jersey.
SPEAKER_03:Salem, New Jersey, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I was born in South Jersey, very close to Philadelphia, so maybe they were close. I don't know. But um he was the second son born to John Charles Ryder Sr. and Mary Caroline Birch. The first son was John Charles Jr., and he had two younger brothers as well, William and Clement. Clem. Old Clem. Old Clem. The Clem is back. Clem the name. Back. So a pretty big family of boys. I don't have a ton of details about Carol's early years, but here's what we do know. When Carol was 14 years old, he met a woman who would change his life, and her name was Evangeline Adams.
SPEAKER_02:That's a great name.
SPEAKER_04:I know it is, right? Evangeline was a friend of the family, and when she met Carol and found out the time of his birth and his birthday, she told him emphatically Your chart is perfect for interpreting the stars, just like mine. For the true astrology nerd out there, here are the loose details of Carol's chart that made Evangeline take notice. His Mercury was conjoined with Mars and sextile to both Jupiter and Uranus. Carol also had a sun, Mars conjunction while Jupiter was together with Uranus. I have also read some accounts that say he was a triple Aquarius, which negates everything I just said. So I don't know enough to make much of this, but I had to share what I know. Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know what any of this means.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, me either. I'm not that I I'm not that deep in it at all. I can't. Okay, so write in and tell us what that means. Yes, yes. Astrology nerds, this episode is absolutely for you. This is for you. This is for you. Now, Evangeline wasn't just some crazy auntie who claimed to be a clairvoyant. She was in fact a very revolutionary and groundbreaking astrologer. In the eighteen nineties, Evangeline had begun studying astrology in earnest, which was a very strange thing to do at the time. After being condemned by the church as far back as the Middle Ages.
SPEAKER_03:It used to be like a big thing. Like like Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I it still is a big thing. It was never like like like in India and and Pakistan I think Pakistan too, but India for sure. So let's just say India, because that's what I do know. Like in India it's still and always has been a really big thing, birth charts and and stuff like that. So it's never been, even if it's I don't think it's ever this is a very European thing, like having it.
SPEAKER_04:But it was also like the church is like what the fuck? This is witchcraft kind of a vibe, right? Right, right.
SPEAKER_03:So it was like we have no control over this, so we condemn it.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. I don't it seems like magic. We don't like it. So that was like as far back as the Middle Ages, it it largely vanished into an archaic art. But Evangeline resurrected it and took it so seriously that she followed her horoscope's inclination that she should move to New York City in 1899. She checked into the Windsor Hotel and she charmed the hotel's owner into allowing her to consult his stars.
SPEAKER_03:She told him You are under one of the worst possible combinations of planets, conditions terrifying in their unfriendliness.
SPEAKER_04:I know, terrible and also crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Insane, Evangeline, she saw it in the stars.
SPEAKER_04:She saw it in the stars. He told the papers, the owner of this hotel, he told the papers about her premonition, and that's when the famous clients started coming her way. Everyone from Charles Schwab and JP Morgan, so like the big banger.
SPEAKER_03:That's money. That's money.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. To silent film actress Mary Pickford, wanted to pick Evangeline's brain about the stars. So in many ways, she was the first true US astrological success story. Wow. So that's like, you know, the person talking to Carol is like she's a name at the you know. Right.
SPEAKER_03:But at that point, at that point she's a name, but or before she was a name.
SPEAKER_04:Right. It was it was at that point she would have been a name. Okay, okay. But but the catch was that in New York City at the time, her readings were viewed as fortune telling, and fortune telling was illegal. What yep, that was how they were categorized. So um when she was charged with this crime in a New York City court, she gave an accurate natal chart reading of someone she referred to as Mr. X. But as she went on, it was clear to the judge that she was talking about his son in great accuracy. What yeah. So the judge was kind of stunned and ruled that I'm the judge now.
SPEAKER_03:She had raised astrology to the dignity of an exact science. Whoa!
SPEAKER_04:And from then on, astrological readings were legalized. She changed the law. She changed the law. That's incredible. I know. So Evangeline also had books ghostwritten by Alistair Crawley. She supposedly accurately predicted her own death, and she had a popular radio show.
SPEAKER_03:What the fuck? Yep. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so at the time she informed young Carol that he was essentially just like her, she wasn't just some astrology hack. She was the astrology hack. That's right. I mean, I'm joking, but I'm not because um I I like all of that sounds really good, right? But her most infamous failed prediction was that the stocks might climb to heaven a few weeks before the 1929 crash. Ooh. Bad Yeah, that's a bad one. So an investment analyst at the time described her as an obvious quack with no real investment knowledge. But that aside, there's reason to believe that young Carol may have felt a special kinship to Evangeline. She was rumored to be in a closeted relationship with actress and suffragette Emma Vila Sheridan Fry, and was often referred to as her companion.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah. Okay, this is the most lesbian thing to by the way to be into astrology this much and be a lesbian. God, talk about a pioneer woman. My god. This is the most lesbian shit. Oh, I love it. Oh, I love you, Evangeline.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. And Carol himself was beginning to realize that he was as gay as the day is long.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, this is the gayest episode! Oh my god, I love it!
SPEAKER_01:Yes! We are so back, baby season!
SPEAKER_04:But also it's like now, or like seriously, after your uh prediction about who James E. Ryder is, who the fuck is James E. Ryder? Did he have a closet? Like, did he have a time where he was so closeted that he had a son? And like, I I'm just it's all what theories can make sense here. Anyway, anyway, I digress so hard. So my God. This so all of these details had to mean something to him, even though he was skeptical about the whole business of astrology for many years. He brushed the idea aside and tried his best to make his proper family proud.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. So he didn't he didn't immediately take Evangelie's word for it.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. No. He studied at uh the University of Pennsylvania and went on to get a law degree from Dickinson School of Law before working at a Philadelphia law firm for a time. But he didn't like it.
SPEAKER_03:Who does? He worked for the law. No nobody who's a lawyer that I know likes it. I'm sorry. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I I think you're right. He worked in law and it was no fun. That was so bad. I wrote this without saying that out loud. What is that from? I fought the law in the law one. Um, just ignore me. Sometimes it's late. I I don't get a lot of sleep anymore. Just just just just people.
SPEAKER_03:You can cut that out of the episode if you want. You're in trickage. I can't.
SPEAKER_04:But also, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Why? Um why this was you guys get to know how stupid we are.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, exactly. Um, this was during the Great Depression, so he put himself to use helping to feed, clothe, and house people who were struggling and unemployed. So he he actually like left his job and he was doing that. Oh, okay. And having been influenced by Evangeline in the end, he even started doing their horoscopes for them. In Carol's words.
SPEAKER_03:I hope for free. Yeah. And in Carol's words. I was impressed at how often the special ability indicated by a man's stars were useful in landing him a job.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting. So he felt like it it actually had a an impact. A positive impact. An impact.
SPEAKER_03:A correlation to helping people get jobs. Interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. His real push into the woo-woo was when he was given six months to live due to complications from an old back injury. But Carol consulted his own chart and found that he had physical protection in the Southwest. Whatever the fuck that means. But he moved to Los Angeles in 1938 on a leap of faith for his life, really, right?
SPEAKER_03:And I guess that's the Southwest. I mean Yeah, it is. It is. It is.
SPEAKER_04:So maybe that's what he meant.
SPEAKER_03:That's what he meant. That's the Southwest.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:He's like, I gotta go to LA to save my own goddamn life.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And he uh said In a year I could dance.
SPEAKER_04:But perhaps it wasn't just a leap of faith, but a shrewd assessment of a hole in the market when it came to astrology. According to one Time article from 1960.
SPEAKER_03:Reading about the zodiac, he soon saw that although Broadway plays were being scheduled by astrological advice, and Wall Street might be half paralyzed without readings from the stars, Hollywood could be El Dorado as a place to cast horoscopes.
SPEAKER_04:So maybe that was it partially too. He wa he, you know, might have been a little bit of a shrewd businessman. So perhaps his ability to dance also came with the swiftness of his success. Well, upon his arrival in LA, not in terms of where he was at in years. He was practically forty at this point.
SPEAKER_03:But as far as it's never too late.
SPEAKER_04:It's never too late. It but it wasn't like, oh, quick success in his life. It's more like quick success as soon as he started really diving into astrology and moving to LA. But as far as astrology is concerned, he began his career by lecturing and touring, joined by his script editor, Robert Mitchum.
SPEAKER_03:Who was only his script editor, but also maybe was he a lover? Do we know?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so, because for those of you who are either old Hollywood fans or remember this name from a former episode, you are not mistaken. Robert Mitchum acted alongside the one and only Christopher Jones in the film Lion's Daughter, and he was also a bona fide star. But obviously not at this point in the story when he was editing lectures for Carol Ryder. He'd been working odd jobs. Yeah. He'd been working odd jobs and had only recently discovered a spark for acting uh in the form of theater and children's plays when Mitchum said In 1938, I was approached by a friend to edit the lectures of an astrologer, Mr.
SPEAKER_03:Carol Ryder. I was sufficiently intrigued by the novelty to accept, and began a tour of women's clubs and resort hotels, which took us to New England in 1939 and in early 1940 to Palm Beach, Florida. Returning to California with my wife, I dissolved my agreement with Mr. Ryder and returned to the haphazard pursuit of specialized writing until early 1941, when the prospects of parenthood suggested a more reliable employment.
SPEAKER_04:So Mitchum left old Carol for some sort of practical sheet metal job to support his family, and then like four years later he became a massive star, like you do. Wild. And it really makes me wonder if Carol read his chart and saw his surprising turn towards Hollywood success, or if he kept it to himself, since he was paying Robert and Robert wasn't paying him, right? Um maybe Carol didn't say anything about the fact that Mitchum's success was on deck because he himself found his way to the Hollywood crowd first. He was a charming guy, and he first found his way into schmoozing with the it crowd at a party of Charlie Chaplin's. Plural.
SPEAKER_03:He became a party of Charlie Chaplin's plural. So it was like a themed party, and the theme was Charlie Chaplin's.
SPEAKER_04:No, no, no, no, no. A part sorry, I forgot an apostrophe. A party of Charlie Chaplin's part Charlie Chaplin's party.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. Got it, got it. Hilarious. Theme.
SPEAKER_04:It was not with like a little show notes where it's not real. I don't know if I have any pictures. Thank God. Anyway. Actually, that should be scrubbed from the internet.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's hilarious. I mean, uh a grammatical error on the script made me think that it was a party that was just themed just like Charlie Chaplin and successful.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like that would like that to me, that's like, oh, and he like walked into a like a theme party from when I was in college. That's it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And became the talk of the town. Okay. Um so he somehow got into a a chap Charlie Chaplin's party.
SPEAKER_04:That's the thing. This is one of those stories where I'm like, okay, how did you like, but how did you do that? Right. It's like it starts in a weird place, you know. But he quickly became known as the gregarious Aquarius for his signature charm. From there, he started gaining popularity with his readings. And one of his early advisees was Miss Marlena Dietrich.
SPEAKER_03:I love Marlena Dietrich. Yes. I love her. She's an icon. She is like she's like such a beauty uh and makeup wig cheekbone cheekbones.
SPEAKER_04:She's an icon. Yes. So in 1941, when she was filming The Lady is Willing, um, which really sounds like The Lady is DTF. I don't think that's what it's about, but it sounds like I want it to be about that. I know. Ryder had given Dietrich a key piece of advice that she ignored.
SPEAKER_03:He told her not to work on set on a certain day because the the as the aspects, uh, the voices will be getting more woo-woo because he himself is becoming more woo-woo. So he told her not to work on set on a certain day because the aspects and dangles were disharmonious.
SPEAKER_04:He sounds like a theremon. I love it. With a baby actor named only as Baby X in her arms. I feel like we had like Mr. X earlier. I didn't put that together until just now. Um, yeah. Unknown names. X, Baby X, in her arms. She tripped over a fire engine, a toy fire engine that day and broke her ankle.
SPEAKER_03:So What about the baby?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, the baby was okay. The baby was okay. Everyone, it's fine. Um, there were actually like publicity photos of Marlena Dietrich, like with the baby in her bed recovering, you know, like being like everyone's fine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Every everyone's fine. I'm fine. The baby's fine. Stop talking about the baby.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, look at me in my full makeup in this hospital bed.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Don't I look fabulous? Stop looking at the baby.
SPEAKER_04:After that, she never got on a plane without consulting Carol Ryder first, and she rarely signed onto a film without getting his go-ahead.
SPEAKER_03:In her words, Don't mess around with old Carol, because he must know something.
SPEAKER_04:So she spread the word about Carol's prediction, and with that his prominence was solidified. Many stars became his loyal clients, including the Gabores. Who were the Kardashians of the time. Exactly. Princess Grace. Um, Grace Kelly.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna say, as in Grace Kelly, Princess of Monaco.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Betty Grable, Hetty Lamar, Tyrone Powers, Susan Haywood, and Red Skelton. And and that's like just a few. There were it was a lot of stars. So still he couldn't nab Marilyn Monroe as a client. He tried to schmooze her at a party, saying You know, this is funny, I gotta say.
SPEAKER_02:Before we get into this, Marilyn and I. We share our birthday.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god, yes. It's like she's this is like you're speaking through her. She's speaking through. I did not know that.
SPEAKER_03:But this is this is uh this is this is uh Carol speaking. Um I know you're a Gemini. Did you know you were born under the same sign as Rosalind Russell, Judy Garland, and Rosemary Clooney?
SPEAKER_04:Marilyn looked him straight in the eye and answered, I know nothing about those people.
SPEAKER_03:I was born under the same sign as Ralph Waldo Emerson, Queen Victoria, and Walt Witchman.
SPEAKER_04:Sick burn, Marilyn. She's like, I you think I'm stupid, but I'm actually smart. That's right. Yeah, so but the stars who listened to him listened to him. Director William Dieterle. I can't pronounce that right, but anyway, he was a German director. Yeah. He started shooting a movie even though it hadn't been completely cast due to writer's advice. Whoa. Yeah, but so that's kind of an insane thing to do. But Susan Hayward woke up at 2 47 in the morning to sign a movie contract because he said that it was the most auspicious time to do it.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And still he claimed to discourage astrological hypochondria.
SPEAKER_03:He said He said, Listen to me, but don't worry about anything I say. He said If all they want to know is what color suit or dress to wear, I cut them off, and I just won't talk to them again until they straighten out.
SPEAKER_04:I imagine him just like full drag queen sty or like you know, RuPaul's drag cray style, just slapping him dramatically.
SPEAKER_03:Straighten out. Yeah. Snap out of it. Straighten it out.
SPEAKER_04:To give a glimpse into the type of advice that was given to this type of clientele, he gave this example to Time magazine.
SPEAKER_03:Suppose you're an actor and you're offered three different scripts at once. How do you make a choice via astrology? It isn't difficult. You look at the aspects. If you have a beautiful Venus aspect, I tell you to take the romantic part. If you have a Mars and Saturn aspect, I tell you to take the part in which there is a lot of fighting and bloodshed.
SPEAKER_04:Wow. It f it feels very simplistic where it's like, and if there's a a part with a horse in it and you're a Sagittarius, obviously take that. You know, it's like all sun sign, doesn't really feel super in-depth with that kind of advice, but yes. So he was doing pretty dang well at this point. And while he continued to service his celebrity clientele, in 1950 he began making moves to provide astrological horoscopes for a much broader audience. He began writing a Sun Sign Horoscope column for the Los Angeles Times. His advice was practical. Yeah. His advice was practical, telling his readers what to do at what time of day.
SPEAKER_03:Depending on the sign, he would advise Make your appearance more charming early. Or attend to the essential home duties early. Or save your leisure and beauty time for the afternoon.
SPEAKER_04:And by 1950 And by 1951, the voice is getting dumber and dumber. I love it. I'm obsessed. Um yeah, you truly sound like a Theremon. And I'm I'm like And by 1951, his column became syndicated and published in many newspapers across the country, and it was a hit, but also an annoyance for smart people and academics who had no interest in finding the advice of a Hollywood astrologer in their newspaper. They wanted the facts.
SPEAKER_03:The facts and the facts alone.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:In fact, if only if only people cared about that now.
SPEAKER_04:No, no, they don't. Yeah. In fact, one sociologist named Theodore Adorno criticized horoscope columns in the 1950s as mass deception. Trivial advice that encouraged conformity and dependency. I mean, like not wrong, not that wrong. It's just like a little dramatic, I guess, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:As if as if like everyone will follow all the same advice at the same time.
SPEAKER_04:Right, or if anyone really follows their horoscope, I think they just have fun reading it, you know? Right. Um, there are some people. There are some people who find it. There are some people, but it's definitely not everyone.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_04:Um, but the public found it entertaining, fun, and glamorously Hollywood adjacent because of his reputation and his clientele. So writers started to make some serious money.
SPEAKER_03:Time magazine said He refuses to brag about his earnings, but they are obviously well into six figures and in the Ascendant. Whoa. Six figures back then.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, that was a lot. Yep. So these ascendant earnings soon afforded him a massive estate in the Hollywood Hills that he christened Harmony House. It was here.
SPEAKER_03:Where is this house? I need to look at it.
SPEAKER_04:I think that it still is in operation. I didn't actually like put this in because it's kind of like a nothing burger. Um, but there is a Carol Ryder Astrological Foundation and it I believe it is at this address, 1801 North Curson Avenue, Hollywood. Because it's still in operation as like this place that has Tuesday night astrological meetings, and it's it's a little bit like I looked this up, it's a little bit the Zillow's estimate is over four million dollars this estate.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And this came up on a different search when I was just like, oh, the guy's uh Carol writer at Harmony House, and this came up. Whoa. It's pretty. It's pretty.
SPEAKER_04:I don't understand what's why it's the classes are still operating the way that they are, because it it really does seem like I don't know, from the photos and I watched like one promotional video about it, it just feels like the same four people are going to those classes. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. That's the impression I got.
SPEAKER_03:It didn't seem to be maybe it was just the f only four people that um allowed to be seen.
SPEAKER_04:That's true. That could be very true. Yeah. So who knows? But if anybody wants to check it out, it's still going on, apparently.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:The number of newspapers his column was featured in only expanded over time, eventually topping out at 306 US newspapers. That was the biggest number I found. Like in Whoa. Yes. And resulting in him being familiar to over 30 million US households. That's a lot. Yes, it is. So he's like pretty actually like we're like dead of households. He was kind of really famous. Yeah. He was kind of really famous. We just don't it's this is just like such a weird fame that we don't really even know now. You know what I mean? Um it's specific to this time. Kind of a phenomenon. And while he was not the first person to write a horoscope for a newspaper, that was a British astrologer named R. H. Naylor. He was the first to develop a large-scale syndicated astrology column and normalize the idea of a horoscope in a US newspaper. So for better or worse, that was the greatest legacy writer left behind. The lesser legacy that perhaps didn't stick as well was that he rebranded the sign of cancer as moon child, according to Carol.
SPEAKER_03:Because of the malignancy, you know. I get it. I get it. I he wanted to rebrand the name. I get it. I get it. I get it.
SPEAKER_04:It's a negative commentary. I understand. Yeah. Um, he also had not Uranus, though.
SPEAKER_03:That one stayed.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right.
SPEAKER_03:That planet will always be funny.
SPEAKER_04:That planet will always be funny, and I love it. Yeah, we gotta leave that. Just like, you know, Dick Butkiss didn't change his name, bless him. Um But Carol Ryder also had some political connections. In the very early 50s, Ryder made a notable mention of Nancy Reagan, then Nancy Davis, directly in his column.
SPEAKER_03:He said, With her progressed moon passing through her tenth house, Nancy Davis's movie career moves steadily forward.
SPEAKER_04:So this is the first indication of his connection to the Reagans, and connected he was. Some might use the term enmeshed at certain points in time, but I will get into that in a moment. Interesting. Yes. When it came to his clients, Ryder had no real boundaries, and yet he could never remember anyone's real name, even if they were famous.
SPEAKER_03:That's a hilarious power move, by the way. I love that. I love that. I'm sorry. Who are you?
SPEAKER_02:Who are you again? Do you think he's gonna be able to do it? Excuse me, who are you?
SPEAKER_04:Who are you? Maybe. Maybe. It's hard to say. He's he's very mysterious about his personal life to the level that I'm like, what about you was authentic and what wasn't, you know? Right.
SPEAKER_03:Um what was what was the the charlatan or what was the the character put on? Right. And there's some the showman.
SPEAKER_04:I think there you can't really be an astrologer without being a little griftery, you know what I mean? Like there's a little bit of a grift it feel to everything. So but he referred to everyone by their zodiac sign. So for example, to Carol, you would not be Marissa, but Ms. Gemini. And yet he was intimately connected to his clients. He actually kept the charts of his most prominent clients next to his bed, ready to take a phone call and consult with them at any time of night. Wow. Flick on his light. Yep. He'd flick on his light at 2 30 a.m., shuffle around for their chart and say things along the lines of Oh moon child, I'm happy to tell you that this is a very good day for you.
SPEAKER_03:Or Hello Taurus. Yes. Why is that so funny the way you say I can't say it? I can't Tar Shall we pick a different no, it's Taurus. No, it's Hello. Hello, Taurus. Yes, sign the contracts day after tomorrow, not before.
SPEAKER_04:And because he was always and because he was always anticipating these calls, he rarely left his home. In fact, by the looks of his colorless puffy skin, and that is another reporter describing him that way. I'm not being mean, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:He hardly went outdoors.
SPEAKER_03:I don't like to go out, he would say. Because I would hate to miss a call from someone who wanted my help.
SPEAKER_04:He seems like senile now.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Um no, no, no, no, no. He's getting older and he's been he doesn't go outside, Courtney. He's losing it a little bit. He's he's losing this is a character choice I am making, okay? As we progress through his story, he's not going outside. He's white and puffy. He's doesn't remember anyone's name, Courtney.
SPEAKER_04:This no, you're right, you're right, you're right.
SPEAKER_03:He is getting a little senile.
SPEAKER_04:You're right, you're right. He had he had a small staff to support him in the form of a butler, Mr. Libra, a cook, Miss Virgo, four secretaries, and a mathematician. So you know, just a simple skeleton crew.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god, this is amazing! I love this man. I know. I love this man.
SPEAKER_04:Like in an almost closeted way, he was known to be gay by a lot of people, and yet I found not a smidge of evidence of any kind of romantic relationship in his life.
SPEAKER_03:Well, his relationships were with the stars, you see. Yes, they were. Not the not the not the Hollywood stars.
SPEAKER_04:The ones in the sky. He was like a like the astrological equivalent to a priest or a nun. He's like I am merried to the stars. That's right. He seemed to live vicariously through his clients. So rather than finding them alarming, the late night calls seemed to soothe him.
SPEAKER_03:If I don't get called late at night, he said, I sometimes toss and turn and wonder what's happened to everybody. I begin to feel not needed.
SPEAKER_04:Not needed. Oh god. Being needed made Carol feel important, and he needed to feel important. He even faked it sometimes. Supposedly, Ryder often lunched at a spot called the Brown Derby on Wilshire Boulevard. Regularly, he'd arrange to have one of his four secretaries call the restaurant requesting to urgently speak to him. But then the staff would page him over the PA system for everyone to hear and rush over with a phone to plug in at his table. And that's either a publicity stunt or a cry for attention. Perhaps it is both. I don't know. But he that's such an Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Such like a weird actor thing.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah. It's very Hollywood. It's very it feels like something a PR person would tell you to do. But exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Like you have to you have to be it has to be known that you're needed and people need to know where they can find you. And you need to and you people need to see that you want to be found. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And they need to be having the conversation. Who's that? Who's that? Oh, why does it name over the P. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Why does he need the phone urgently? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Chatter, chatter, chatter. Exactly. Um, and there is no denying that Carol loved to attract attention. From the late 50s into the 70s and 80s, he was known, you know, to various levels of frequency. He was known to throw lavish zodiac parties that were considered to be the most chic gatherings in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_03:At his home at Harmony House.
SPEAKER_04:Of course, at Harmony House. Where else you can leave.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. You come to me. Dress it just like Charlie Chubb. Oh god.
SPEAKER_05:So stupid.
SPEAKER_04:So I'm gonna have like dreams about that. I'm gonna have a dream where I'm like, I'm naked and everyone else is dressed like Charlie Chuck.
SPEAKER_03:You're naked getting your zodiac, uh, getting your horoscope read.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right. So, so for example, for uh like the Taurus party, there was a bull. Sagittarius had a horse. For Scorpio, there was a crocodile, and that's because according to writer, a scorpion was too small. Not exciting enough. Also, scorpions are scary and I don't like them. So that's there is that and what?
SPEAKER_03:And crocodiles aren't? Crocodiles are so scary. You're right, you're right. A crocodile is scary. I'm crocodiles and alligators? No. You're right, they are very scary. And that's someone who did not grow up in Florida. Right. No, this is the one. Let me tell you.
SPEAKER_04:Let me tell you. Do you have videos of crocodiles with like the little dogs and like people trying to do that?
SPEAKER_03:Little dogs? Yeah, like you weren't allowed to I wasn't when I walked my dog, I was to one- I was not allowed to walk my dog near a body of water. There was that. Do you guys remember that toddler that got snatched up at Disney, like a Disney resort by an alligator? Do you remember that? Yeah. Crocodiles are fucking scary. Alligators are scary.
SPEAKER_04:You're right. A scorpion would have been better, but it was a scorpion would have been better. But it was too small, so what are you gonna do? Oh my god. It's crazy. It is insane. All of this is insane. For Leo, of course, he'd have a lion or a lion cub. Um, and there are videos of this online of like just these parties where it's it's not good audio because it's just like whatever, but yeah, you can look them up, like the Carol Ryder Zodiac parties, and it's just people like petting a lion cub. It's it's rich people weirdos from like the 80s in the videos that I found. It's very odd. Um so uh he'd have a lion or lion cub for that, and according to a 1970 Playboy article, a lion at such a party once got loose and caused a minor commotion. Just a minor commotion.
SPEAKER_01:Just a minor commotion, no baby at all. Just a little itty bitty smidge of a little bit of noise.
SPEAKER_04:Where did the lion go? Oh my god, did you off leash him? Come on. Actress and friend of writer, Arlene Dahl, recalls the parties this way.
SPEAKER_01:Fish was swimming around in his pool for the Pisces party. He rented a live lion for my Leo party, and he lined up sets of twins for the Gemini party. He served astrologically appropriate food such as meat and potatoes for moon children, lemon pie for the tart tastes of the Aries people, and hot red peppers for passionate Scorpios.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you, Adelaide, from Guys and Dogs. Oh my god. So if it wasn't clear enough already, Carol Ryder was the epitome of Hollywood weirdos. Like here for it. Yes. In addition to his column, Ryder also authored several books with titles like Astrology and You, The Astrological Guide to Marriage and Family Relations, and Your Astrological Guide to Health and Diet. Oh my god. So that's fucking wild.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, get that shit.
SPEAKER_04:He had no business writing these books. No business. None at all. He wasn't healthy and he didn't have a relationship. So anyway. He also penned the booklets for a grouping of zodiac themed records aptly titled The Astro Musical Series. These records were largely glorified mixtapes thematically curated for each sign with a lengthy sun sign analysis written by Carol included in each. Then each song choice was explained in perhaps too much detail in a way that harkens to a hipster know it all making a mix. A crush.
SPEAKER_03:So my my mouth is hanging open right now. Like, what? Are you kidding me? He made he made zodiac themed mixtapes. Yep. And then mansplained them. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. And mansplained after every song. Yeah, and it's like like Aries, like every song is about the wind, you know what I mean? And it's like popular songs from the time. They're not like obscure songs you couldn't find anywhere. It's like what was playing on the radio, but like curated for but curated together. It's like it's like Spotify meets the worst playlist you can find at Spotify.
SPEAKER_03:The worst playlist you could what's what's the name of that uh co-star? It's like it's like it's like if Spotify met co-star was this guy. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_04:100%. Also, also, these records had models on each of the covers in beautiful costumes that were designed by Oscar DeLorenta himself.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, fabulous. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Fabulous. They were photographed by Francisco Scavulo, a photographer famous for shooting the covers of Cosmopolitan Magazine. So like this was not like some rinky dink. This was moneyed.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah. He had money to put behind his pasture.
SPEAKER_04:Well, this wasn't like even his entirely, like it was like a collaborative. I don't know, but everybody was trying to like cash in on this. So um, and this was like also the timing of this, I think, is like right after it's in the like 60s, right after Hair, I feel like, or right around that time at the musical, especially, and they're like talking about the dawning of the age of Aquarius. By the way, like um Carol talks a lot about like the the in 1904, like the Pisces era ended, and Aquarius is coming in in 1904, so it's like we're in the age of Aquarius, like just like that musical, you know. So it was a kind of like a popular thing to like latch on to at the time when to us it sounds tired, but like, yeah, that was a big thing.
SPEAKER_03:But it was new and exciting back then, it was and everyone was getting in on it from all these different worlds, exactly. It's kind of cool, yeah. Like all of these different artistic mediums coming together with this one theme. I I g I kind of like love it. Like, I know we're kind of hating on it, but I kind of love it.
SPEAKER_04:I know. I'm kind of hating on it just because of like the music choices, but if they were just like a little bit more, you know, obscure or something, or like to the point where it's like you'd be getting, you know, something new out of it, I guess, a little bit in that regard just because it's because you went through all the music. Well, a little bit, yeah. Like I think every everything I read about these, like everyone kind of has the same read. You know, it's like an interesting project, but it's not the music that makes it good, I guess. Right. Um but um I have myself purchased the astro musical House of Pisces record. Hold on a second.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god. This is fabulous. This is a okay. First of all, there is a woman with fabulous hair and makeup. She is, I think, um, handcuffed. Or are those handcuffed? Are those just are her Oh, they might be.
SPEAKER_04:That's hard to tell.
SPEAKER_03:It's hard to tell if she's handcuffed or if j or if it's just her two that her pose is making her It might be like her po because she has two bracelets.
SPEAKER_04:If they aren't handcuffs, it looks like two bracelets that are almost overlapped, like the fishes swimming against each other.
SPEAKER_03:It is like and she's in a fabulous teal green bathing suit with a gem for a belly button, like a little troll, um, and wet design hair, fabulous makeup and like a teal background. She looks so cool and beautiful. Yes, whoever this is. This is really cool.
SPEAKER_04:And then on the back, it's Carol. Hey dude. How are you doing? Like in his suit, looking very formal.
SPEAKER_03:And his very sharp suit. That's a nice suit. You could tell. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So my gosh.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:What's on his desk? Like what's below his hands?
SPEAKER_04:A typewriter. Okay. Like I wrote this, right? Uh-oh, yeah. So the songs on the Pisces one are A Whiter Shade of Pale, Reach Out for Me, Who Can I Turn To When Nobody Needs Me? I don't know what that song is, actually. Yesterday, Misty, as Tears Go By, The Windmills of Your Mind, Gentle on My Mind, My Favorite Things Till the End of Time. Like, it's a little strong. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Okay. So, anyway, though, I think what's really interesting about these, the booklets, the things that he wrote, supposedly, right? So I read through the whole booklet with rapt attention, actually, because both my daughter and my brother are Pisces, sweet, sensitive fishes who are repelled by reality. Um, so a particularly poetic passage from the booklet reads.
SPEAKER_03:Because of the contradictions which pull within their spirits, and because of the fluidity of their characters, natives of this sign are beset with self-doubt and insecurity to an alarming rate, to an alarming degree. In matters of romance they desire and in fact need a fullness of affection. Their insecurity yearns to be constantly allayed with assurances of fidelity and love. Love then for this creature becomes a necessity rather than a luxury, a prerequisite rather than a requisite. Rather than a regular requisite, it's a prerequisite, okay? Distinction. Their intense idealism leaves them open to the bruises of love's buffetings. If disappointed in love, the Piscean is in dangerous to him waters, for it is commonplace for him to build his hopes and his tomorrows upon the heart of his beloved. Early in the romance he has fashioned the dream world with their dream house by the sea. He has furnished their dwelling with drifting brilliance and filled it with requited love. They live in peace until the end of time. When this image is shattered, is there any wonder that the Piscean fails? His world has ended, and that time has stopped its steady march.
SPEAKER_04:Incredible. Incredible. I want to clap, but I'm holding the microphone, so it's hard for me. But that was that was amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Dramatic reading. Wow. Wow. And that that is on the back of No, it's a it's a booklet that's inside of it. It's like a whole booklet. Okay, okay. It's a book.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, that's part of the booklet that is inside of this. That's why I bought it actually, is for the booklet because I couldn't find it anywhere. So um I inserted such a lengthy passage. I inserted such a lengthy passage for a reason. I want you to get a real sense of the style of this writing because there is some speculation that these booklets perhaps contain information provided by Carol Ryder, but were actually written by the one and only Maya Angelou. What? Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm sure, I'm sure all of you listeners could get Maya just got Maya Angelou from that performance. So what am I saying? What am I saying? Of course you heard Maya come from within.
SPEAKER_04:Of course you did.
SPEAKER_03:Of course you did.
SPEAKER_04:Maya Angelou? This is not this is not entirely confirmed, but Angelou does say something in one of her memoirs that does make it seem like it's true. What? Yes, because the Astro Musical House series was the very first output from a brand new record company called GWP, and it had been created by a man named Jerry Purcell. And Jerry Purcell was a key figure in Maya Angelou's life. Originally, yes, originally Maya had sung in a supper club that he owned, and that's how she met him. But when she reached out to him again, I didn't know she sang, so that's like also something. I think she just kind of like did it. But yeah. But when she reached out to him again, hoping to find more work to pay the bills when her writing wasn't doing it, he paid her a stipend so she could focus on writing and released a record of her spoken word poetry eventually. So he was kind of a champion of hers. Right.
SPEAKER_02:He was an early investor.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. And in her sixth volume of her autobiography titled A Song Flung Up from Heaven, Angelou said this.
SPEAKER_03:Oh shit. Now I have to try to sound like my Angelou.
SPEAKER_04:I think that you know, my b my greatest love for this podcast is just what a, you know, prank it really is on Marissa every time. There's always gonna be an impression you never thought you were gonna have to do that you couldn't possibly have seen coming. Because this is a complete and total curveball. So No.
SPEAKER_03:Um And also my Angel no one else has ever sounded like her. Or will you know what she has?
SPEAKER_00:That's all right, you get a pass. You get a pass because I'm so sorry. I apologize in advance.
SPEAKER_03:For the next two years, Purcell treated me like a valued employee. Save for the odd temporary office job and the money I made writing radio spots for Ruby D and Ozzie Davis, I depended upon his largesse. He didn't once ask anything, and seemed totally satisfied with the simple thanks. I did write a ballad based on Portnoy's complaint for a singer Jerry managed, and I wrote twelve astrological liner notes for a series of long playing albums he was planning to release. When I tried to explain how his generosity afforded me the opportunity to improve my writing skills, he shrugged his shoulders and said I manage artists who make more in one night than you have ever made in a year. Yet I know no one more talented than you. His patronage was a gift as welcome as found money bearing no type of identification. So he just supported her work and and and literally expected nothing in return. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, earlier happens. I know, and early in her description um about him, she said you know, she described him as like growing angel wings, like, you know, even just the first time that he gave her money. So you got the part in there though, right? Where 12 astrological liner notes for a series of like what else could that be? Right. Literally what's that? Especially because this is the guy who's this was his.
SPEAKER_03:And now that an audience, now that you've heard me do Maya Angelou and you heard me do the description. Apply them both together. Do you could you not hear it in that in my performances? Could you not?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I will say I think the writing, it's like the writing is it's very like the facts are I can see how there could have been a collaboration there or a ghostwriting, you know, kind of a thing. I can see it for sure, because it is like well written, I think. But um so from that I will allow you to draw your own conclusions. But yeah, it's in the w realm of possibility. It is Carol's name and photo that appear on the record with his typewriter, like we said, as if you know he's the one writing it, but um it could be, it could be, it's I believe I mean I'm not gonna not believe Maya Angelou. I will say that. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_03:And she pretty much said we're gonna believe Maya Angelou. Okay. We're gonna believe Maya Angelou. In this house, we we believe in in the state of California and the state of Minnesota believes Maya Angelou.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. Okay, that's right. Now, let's circle back to a key part of Carol Ryder's story: the Reagans. Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:You teased an enmeshment.
SPEAKER_04:I did. Yes. Ryder had mentioned Nancy in his column early on, and some believe that she became acquainted with him when he was teaching a Tuesday night astrology class, like the one that still continues to be taught. Crazy. So this is not out of the realm of possibility because Nancy was a bit cuckoo for constellations by almost all accounts. And Ronald Reagan.
SPEAKER_03:Good job, good job there. Cuckoo for constellations. I like that. Good job, good job. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good job, Courtney.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. See, make my writing could be mistaken for my Angela.
SPEAKER_03:Can you hear it? Can you hear my Angela say cuckoo the talent?
SPEAKER_04:Just give her money, give it to her. And Ronald Reagan seemed to have an interest in astrology too, likely introduced to him by his wife. In his 1965 autobiography, Ronald Reagan actually referred to Carol Ryder as a good friend and confirmed that he and Nancy regularly read his column and his writings, saying Every morning Nancy and I turn to see what he has to say about people of our respective birth signs. Others reported that Ryder's column would be the first thing Ronald Reagan would read in the newspaper every day. Two years after the release, yeah, so it was important to him, you could say, or at least it caught his attention. Two years after the release of his autobiography, Reagan became the governor of California and chose to be inaugurated at 12 10 a.m. Which many believe to be due to astrological forecasts.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't not know that, that he had like a weird inauguration time.
SPEAKER_04:12 10 is a weird time, and it's a time he chose. It's not like it's not like they were running late. No, that's whatever.
SPEAKER_03:That's ten that's ten minutes past midnight, people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, very odd. So others say that we're like, it's not ast astrology, what are you talking about? Others say it was so he could show urgency in taking his oath as soon as possible because it was he was supposed to take it like after January 1st or whatever, you know. But that seems a little a little much, a little overzealous, perhaps. Um but based on various interviews, a People magazine article from '88 presented the viewpoint that Carol Ryder had been the astrologer behind this decision of that time. Well, what other astrology are they close with, you know? Well, at this point in time, I don't think there is one, but there are some later. So when asked if he had provided astrological counsel to Ronald Reagan, Ryder famously said, No comment. No one ever denied his closeness to them as a friend, and Ryder himself acknowledged counseling Nancy. So fast forward to 1976, Reagan had completed a second term as governor, and his wife was pushing the former actor towards the biggest spotlight politics could provide. At the White House. Oh gosh. Yep. To hide her identity, Nancy booked a consult with Ryder under her maiden name, Nancy Davis, and arrived at his estate in big sunglasses and a kerchief on her head. She was in disguise. Nothing says don't look at me. Nobody noticed me. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. She asked him if Ronnie should run for president, and when Ryder said the timing wasn't right, she wouldn't accept no for an answer.
SPEAKER_01:Why? Why must we wait? Why can't we go now? Why, why, why?
SPEAKER_03:That's Nancy Reagan.
SPEAKER_04:That's Nancy. This went on for an hour. When she finally left, Ryder is said to have collapsed into a chair saying, She wears me out.
SPEAKER_03:If I wasn't gay before.
SPEAKER_04:The dramatics. Somebody get me my smelling salts. The Reagans didn't listen and pushed ahead, and as Ryder predicted, the timing wasn't right and he didn't win. But four years later, as we all know, he did. And the president, famous for sweeping the AIDS crisis under the rug, still hosted and entertained Carol Ryder as perhaps his only close gay friend. And maybe because he either kept his romances under wraps or refrained from having them, he was palatable enough. I find that irritating. Now, if Reagan's treatment of the gay community was of any offense to Ryder, he never mentioned it. But what's fascinating is that Carol Ryder died of colon cancer at the age of 87 in 1988 the exact same day that the People magazine article describing the Reagan's astrological dependence came out. He wasn't around to comment or say no comment. But somehow it feels like a slight to Reagan from the stars themselves, and I am here for it. That's right. That's right. So after all of this, if you still aren't sure what to make of astrology, I'll leave you with this quote from Carol Ryder himself.
SPEAKER_03:The stars impel, they don't compel. What you make of your life depends on you.
SPEAKER_04:And that's the story of Carol Rider. That's everything I can find.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. Fascinating and so fun! And so fabulous. Fascinating, fun, and fabulous. That's right. I you need to definitely include a picture of the album cover in the show notes because it's incredible.
SPEAKER_00:I want you to actually want you to frame that and put it in your office because it's beautiful. It's a piece of it.
SPEAKER_04:It's Oscar De La Renta. Like, come on. It's gorgeous. And it might be a collector's item if people can prove that my Angelou wrote the, you know, the booklet. Because there are not that many of them in existence anymore, from what I could find. So yes. So I mean that's a I feel like he's probably one of the more famous people that we've covered, actually. I we just aren't familiar with the history and the, you know, the legacy.
SPEAKER_00:Because he was like, I guess, you know, he died when I was born, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it was a while ago, and it's it's it just feels very commonplace. Like to have like horoscopes feel very commonplace to actually. Yeah, yeah. So it's like not a big But he started it all. He started it all. He got that like cool. Yeah, he was like the uh an astrological star.
SPEAKER_03:It was a star of the stars reading the stars. Yeah, exactly. He's a star of the stars, reading the stars for the stars. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:But um, yeah, and I do feel like even though he was connected to the Reagans, it's just kinda I think everybody was like a job to him, you know? Yeah, I do wonder what his like real feelings about being gay were. I wonder if he had any relationships. I wonder who the fuck James E. Ryder is. I wonder what he actually thought about Ronald Reagan and the like way he was being governor and president and all these things, right? Like and I don't know any of it. So there's like a lot of stuff, you know, because he didn't I think he was just very he's very professional in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_03:Like all you know is the professional guise that that he put on, the professional character that's he played out.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. So there's a lot I want to know that I don't know at the end of this, actually, but um I I can't I can't research it anymore because I already tried and I can't find anything and I'd have to like knock on doors at this point, you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So so if you know anything or if you know anybody who knows something, tell us we want to know more.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, spill that tea. Spill the tea. We want to know it all. But anyway, um, yeah, I hope you guys enjoyed it and we'll be back for more. We're so happy to be back for a season tomorrow.
SPEAKER_03:We are jazz. We're happy to be here. We're happy that you're here again. Leave us any questions or comments, fact corrections. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Happy to answer them. Yes. Um, but thank you guys so much, and we will see you next time. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. Your support and enthusiasm for the show are the reason we keep doing it. So thanks for the kind words. They really mean the world. If you liked the show or have ideas for episodes we could or should do, please drop us a comment in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and tell every cinephile and tapophile, fun fact, that's a person who loves graveyards, about your new favorite niche podcast. And if you want to see transcripts, photos, and sources for our episodes, check out our substack, Dead and Kindit Famous. Dead and Kindit Famous is written, produced, and edited by Courtney Blomquist. It is hosted by Marissa Rivera and Courtney Blomquist. And special thanks to Jesse Russell, my husband, for allowing me to yammer on about the episodes before I can spoil them all to Marissa. He tends to have some good insights and ideas, so. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell, and you're not dead yet.
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