Dead and Kind of Famous

Lightning Bolts and Shaved Legs: Holly Woodlawn Part 1

• Courtney Blomquist and Marissa Rivera • Season 2 • Episode 2

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A lightning strike beside a soda machine. A pair of freshly shaved legs in a roadside motel. A runaway from Miami who would become the source of the first verse of Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side. She was a Warhol Superstar, trans icon, and hilarious writer as exemplified in her autobiography, A Lowlife in High Heels.  

This is the origin story of Holly Woodlawn—born in Puerto Rico, raised between San Juan, New York, and Miami Beach—and this episode traces how glamour became both her shield and her signature.  Holly is the heavy hitter of the season, and this episode is the first in several more to come. Get ready for a wild first chapter of a trans trailblazer that will steal your heart.

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SPEAKER_03:

Hello and welcome to Dead and Kind of Famous, where we dig into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time and now reside permanently in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. I'm Marissa Rivera, and I know nothing. But I do know that this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Oh my God, I'm so stressed. I'm so stressed all the time. I took a stress nap today. I was like, I feel very anxious and sick to my stomach. Let me just like lay down and read some smut nonsense for a second instead of the news. And I passed out so hard. I like woke up with a I was like, and it was like 6 p.m. And I was like, oh no, I have to go record with Courtney soon and like have to get my shit together. But my God. I know it's so bad. And it's like so bad. I was just I was just in Toronto and people found out that I was American and they'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Oh but for real. Oh, I'm so sorry. And then I would say, Thank you. I do live in California though.

SPEAKER_01:

And they would just kind of nod sadly for me. Yeah. Well, all I can say is I've been thinking about that a lot. And I, it's, it's, you know, it's now in our show notes actually, like of like, if you want a distraction from all of this shit, like come over here. Because for real, I was telling Jesse the other night, I was like reading the book about today's, about today's uh subject. And I was like, this is not work to me right now because I, I mean, I often feel this way about what we're working on with the show, but I was just like, I can't like it's not tempting for me anymore to pick up my phone because I know it's gonna stress me out. So it's like I need to be in a different time period in a different thing, and that's why we're doing this because I think everybody else maybe does a little bit too. I don't think it's just me that feels this way. So that's why we welcome you to this space.

SPEAKER_03:

To escape our reality a little bit, and I'm currently sober, so same.

SPEAKER_01:

This is this is it for me. I know I'm literally drinking um a non-alcoholic cocktail right now. It's an apro spritz, but AF out there. They're not sponsoring us. Don't show it. Don't well, it's not gonna whatever. No, it's true. They're not, they're not non-sponsoring us. I don't feel like they need to. They're sold in Target and you know, yeah, an independent alcohol, alcohol-free brand. Um, you know, hit us up. Let's do it. Let's have a sponsorship. We'll drink it. I'll drink it happily. Um, okay. And I'm Courtney Blomquist, and I know way too much anyway about what we're talking about, but not, I don't know. Oh, like well, I'll cut all this out, but now I'm thinking I'm so knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_03:

Um you dare cut that out.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I don't know how to um take a fish off of a fishing line. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to like I know how to how to catch a fish, but I don't know how to take it off of the hook. Um you don't know how to release the fish. I don't know how to release the fish. I was fishing yesterday with my family. And you're in so Minnesota right now. I know, I know. Well, it's like, yeah, it's my in-laws for sure. No that he's like, I've got a tracker and I know where all the the crappies are and the, you know, the sunfish and whatnot. And so we went out and he was just like, yeah, this is a good spot. And it was a good spot, and we easily just raked him in, but I don't know what I'm doing at all, like at all. So I I just had, you know, I was like, I got it.

SPEAKER_02:

Help help me, help.

SPEAKER_01:

And sometimes when I pulled it onto the boat, it like swung around and like slapped someone because I just I'm not doing it right. Um, yeah. So that's mine. So fun. All right. Let's let's get into it. We're ready. We're ready for the distraction.

SPEAKER_03:

We're so ready. We hope you're ready.

SPEAKER_01:

Because we are so I know they're ready. I don't even need to. I know you're all ready. I know. I know you're ready. Okay. So um today we are talking about Holly Woodlawn. She is the heavy hitter of this season. So if you all liked how many episodes we did on my Lynermi last season, this is that person this time. There probably will be four. Um, I don't really know, but there probably will be four. Um, ooh, so I love a multi-parter. I do love that. This one's rich and delicious. Um, so it will be uh broken into multiple parts. That said, Marissa, have you ever heard of Hollywoodlawn? No. Okay. Not at all. Let's look at her tombstone. Do you see it? She looks like a drag queen.

SPEAKER_03:

Am I right? I don't know. She looks like a drag queen, which is the biggest compliment by the way. Right. Because she looks so fabulous. She has like a big like buffant side Hollywood part with the big curls. She's like, oh, looking over her shoulder and giving and giving us the downturned Marilyn eyes, and like the lips are lipping, and she's dripping in in in jewelry, and it's like a glamour shot on her tombstone. October 26, 1946 to December 6, 2015. Um, so math. 69. She was 69. Oh. And the what a great number. Um, first of all, she would be 69. Yeah. Looking at this, looking at this.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. All right. So um, Marissa. This is what we know. She died when she was 69. She looks glamorous as all hell. And also, is that a lipstick mark at the bottom, or is that like what someone left on the tombstone? Do we think? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

So the picture on the tombstone looks like it's a Polaroid with a lipstick kiss on the bottom right. But as we know from visiting Mila's Yeah, it could have been someone who just kissed it. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. Either either way I love.

SPEAKER_01:

Either way, I love and I live. Yes. So Marissa, give us Holly's entirely fabricated life story. Go.

SPEAKER_03:

Hello, children. I am the Hollywood lawn. I was born some time ago. You'll never know. You'll never know where. You'll never know how. You'll never know who I'm gonna be. I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

She was she wrote her own obituary. I love this.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, of course. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um you'll never know who I was before. Because before I was Ms. never married Hollywood. I was dreaming her up. So I was born somewhere in Middle America to a single mother who always supported my dreams of being someone else. I created my own identity from a young age. And I became her when I became her, when the stars aligned, and the planets said, Yes, mama, go for. Become her, be she. So she is I.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. Mystique.

SPEAKER_03:

The mystique, the glamour, the I want I don't I don't even want to like improvise to it. I just want to know. I really want to know for real. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So I I'm really kind of jumping right in with this in a lot of ways. So before I say anything else, I would like you to read, Marissa, I would like you to read this excerpt from Holly's autobiography, which is my main source for this multi-part series and one of my favorite things that I've ever read, actually. So for context, in this excerpt that I'm having Marissa read, Holly has just been thrown in jail and she realizes that she's going to be strip searched. So we're really, we're truly jumping right into the middle of this one. And look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw you a bone here, Marissa. I know you need to do the voice, and this is a long excerpt. So just know that Holly was born in Puerto Rico, raised in Miami, and currently living in New York. Go.

SPEAKER_02:

You have all the tools.

unknown:

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_03:

No pressure, no pressure, no pressure. Okay. Let me channel my mother for this, I think. I think, I think this is where.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for those of you that for those of you that don't know, Marissa is Puerto Rican. So this is this is this should feel exciting, I feel like. Yeah, I'm so excited to do this.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. How long has she been living in New York? Uh is a whole life. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, well, before that, like a shortened, a little bit of trial. I don't now I'm telling you things. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Not the whole life. Not the whole life. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03:

That's important. That's important.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

For my okay, so I'm gonna go. Yeah, raised in Miami. Raised in Miami. Raised in Miami. I'm gonna L River on this then. Okay. All I had to do was shimmy out of my dress. No sweat, I thought, till I remembered I was concealing something much more incriminating. Thoughts sprang about my head as I tried to resolve how I was going to explain being a man. Suicide was easier and Andy would surely get a kick out of it. He just loved screaming headlines, especially the juicy ones. Imagine Middle America's shock after reading Drag Queen commits harikity with teasing comb and slammer. But Middle America would have to wait for its grisly tabloid sensationalism. Because the only thing that screamed that day was the matron after she told me to bend over and spread my cheeks.

SPEAKER_02:

Get him out of here.

SPEAKER_03:

By the end of the day, I was staggering through the men's house of detention, affectionately known as the tombs, in heels, ripped nylons, and now dishevelled dress and mascara strained eyes. What a horror it was to be thrown in a cell with forty straight men. Some were old and scraggly, but others were young and rough. They were hard people who had led hard lives. And there I was, a young tender lamb cut lid amidst a pack of hungry wolves. She's mine seethed one fat wrinkled geezer with dirty teeth. No, she's mine proclaimed another, and then another get away, she's mine they started to approach. My eyes grew and my stomach shrunk. So many men, so little time, and I was too petrified to enjoy it. Luckily, from the mass of lurching heathens bellowed a thunderous voice Leave her the fuck alone I looked up and there he was a strapping tall Latin with a bright gold tooth and shiny muscles that swelled beneath his ripped t shirt. She's mine his voice roared like a lion staking out his territory. That's right, I told the rest of him, shaking my finger. I'm his You gonna be okay, he reassured me, placing his hand on the small of my back. I grew weak with desire as he walked me to the corner of the cell. He sat with me, lighting two cigarettes at once, offered me one, I accepted, gazing into his heavenly browed, romantic eyes. He leaned forward, touching his lips to my cheek. I felt his massive chest strain as he pulled me into a hungry kiss. Oh my god. Oh my god, we are really just I'm sweating. I'm sweating, I'm here. My loins erupted into flames of passion as he devoured my body, working his mouth into the side of my neck and down to my voluptuous titties.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that your mom is like the the if you guys knew my mom, she would fucking never say this.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, I can't wait for her to l listen to this episode. Alright. I threw my head back and resisted, but his force was immense. No, no, I cried, beating onto his sweaty back, he pressed his heaving body against mine, causing my hormones to break into a chorus of Baba. My heart was a yo-yo. He held the string, and I didn't even know his name. What difference did it make? We had a quick Vegas-like wedding that night. He said I do. I said I do too, and so we did. Zing went the strings of my Volva. Okay, there's more. I'm not done yet. Hold on, hold on. Hold on to your skirts, ladies and gents. There's more. We were together not twenty-four hours when the guards entered the cell and hauled me off again. I love you, Raul. I wailed, clinging to his torso.

SPEAKER_02:

My name's Ramon.

SPEAKER_03:

My name's Ramon. He scowled. Get this Jeep brought out of my fucking sight. Jeep, you goddamn son of a bitch. You can't talk to me like that. I'm a movie star. God, I want to divorce.

SPEAKER_02:

Isn't it so good? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01:

That is the passage I keep going back to when I was explaining to people that I was reading this book. I was like, let me just repeat this real quick. And then maybe you'll get it. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I also Oh my God, I'm so bumped.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the whole, it's oh my God. So this is from Holly's amazing autobiography, A Low Life in High Heels. It seems to be out of print.

SPEAKER_03:

What an amazing title for some.

SPEAKER_01:

An incredible title. An incredible title. Incredible. And I have it right here, actually, just so you can see. It's the same picture from the same picture from on her tombs and so um it's the book seems to be out of print. So I purchased the only copy I could find at the time. I'm I'm not sure if there's more out there or whatever, but um it's the only time one I could find at the time on Amazon for$50, which would be a little pricey if it were like a new hardback, but it is a used paperback.

unknown:

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01:

And I thought that it was wildly expensive at the time. But that seller, I'm telling you, they knew the value of this book, and it is worth every fucking penny because every single penny.

SPEAKER_03:

Every single penny.

SPEAKER_01:

Just for that one passage. Honestly, it's hilarious, as you now know. And I absolutely cackled out loud reading it in so many parts. Like Holly was a full-on comedian, and I thoroughly enjoy her voice and perspective. Second of all, she's basically forced gump. She finds herself in, she finds herself in notable and historical moments in time and recalls it like it's a total throwaway. Like, well, whatever. Um, and I mean, sometimes it's just like cultural touchstones and things, but it's still like what? Like every time. And lastly, it's full of heart and insight into what it was like to be a transgendered woman in the spotlight in the 1970s because that is who Holly was.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my gosh, Courtney, what a what a time to be doing this. Thank you so much for for doing this episode at this time. I really appreciate it. I mean, I always appreciate you and all your work, but this this is this takes the take.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, but I have been sitting on I have been sitting on this like book and this person for a while. Um, it just happens to be like more apt at this moment. It was always kind of important, you know, but um really now. So um throughout this book, like so this this is kind of my take on things just before we even get going. Throughout this book, Holly kind of goes back and forth in the way that she describes herself um or identifies. I wouldn't even use identifies as the word really, because it's just like she's recounting her story and but the way she kind of describes herself and jokes about herself and everything. Um, it's just not consistent. So for example, her pronouns go all over the place. Um, and she doesn't often refer to herself as being a tr like transgendered outright. Um, sometimes she says she's a woman, sometimes she says she's a man, sometimes a homosexual, sometimes a girl. And part of it, I think, is like um sometimes it's like slang at the time, some like a time period thing. Sometimes it's um I think the journey that we're going on with her through this book. Um, but a lot of it might be time period. Like I couldn't tell if it was a time period.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'm not sure if like the language really existed.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think so. I think there was less of an agreed-upon language for transgendered people. Um, or maybe it's just that Holly is taking us through the confusion of realizing that you're trans in the 60s because that's what this, you know, really is, and that's where we're starting. So it must have been very disorienting and scary. Or, you know, maybe also a factor would be that the community itself of transgendered people was not embraced by other marginalized groups. I've researched this like a little bit, and specifically gay people and cis women is what I'm talking about. So in fact, transgender was not a term that was used before the mid-1970s, and the term most often used was transvestite, which doesn't, it's not the same thing, right? So it's like it just shows like a level of disrespect that is, you know, like I mean, there's a whole lot of disrespect going on today as well. Um, my God, but like this is just even just in the terms and like seeing them as people. So um so nothing's changed. Anyway. So nothing's changed, yeah. So really. So from an outsider looking in and experiencing the 1970s trans community through Holly's eyes, this was a time of both survival and fierce ownership of representing oneself authentically. So how out in the world, Holly makes it clear that the goal was to pass as a woman. Like that was the goal. Like there wasn't really any gray area. You were either a woman or a man, so your goal was to pass as a woman. Um, but then there was the community of folks who were doing the same and knew the struggle, who knew that to show up as themselves fully in the world would mean they would be seen as gay, like if everybody knew everything about them, you know?

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

When that term didn't always define them. Um, and at worst, she'd be considered a freak or the butt of the joke. So, all of this to say, I think the pronoun jumping in broad use of terms is an attempt to be understood by a world that did not understand her. But Holly's absolutely recognized as a pioneer of the transgendered community today. And she was most definitely a trans woman. In fact, she was a transcendent trans woman, and I'm so excited to finally be doing this episode and talking about her. Yay! I know it's really, it's honestly this book is. I, if anyone can track it down, it is it's such a delightful read. It's so good. So, anyway, so where's the kind of famous part of all of this? Well, Holly was most widely known for being one of Andy Warhol's last quote superstars, having earned a leading role. Yep. So having she earned a leading role in the film Trash, and that was her screen, you know, debut and everything.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So that film was produced by uh Andy Warhol's factory. Um, you know, he had like his kind of stable, it was almost like a mini Hollywood. He had his little stable of factory stars, and she was one of them or entering in as one of them at this time. Um, so it was produced more by Andy Warhol and then directed by his longtime collaborator Paul Morrissey, also a factory member. So when she referenced Andy in that excerpt that you read, like the Andy loves a headline and all that, that's who she was talking about.

SPEAKER_03:

That's who she was talking about. Yes. When I read it, I was like, I wonder who Andy is. Like, yep. Andy Warhol.

SPEAKER_01:

She was a man talking about Andy Warhol.

SPEAKER_03:

Nope. And she's Andy Warhol. I love how Andy Warhol is just Andy to her.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well no, because it's yeah. He was like in her in her world, in her sphere. Yeah. So, um, but also he's yeah, we'll get in we'll get into all of that and we will um, you know, give the movie itself like a whole moment, maybe probably in the in the next episode, maybe in the one after that, but it's um it's absolutely wild and deserves a full, full, full moment. So um if you're wondering what it meant to be a Warhol quote superstar, Holly puts it well.

SPEAKER_03:

In our minds, being a superstar was like being a piece of art, and I wanted that status. I needed that stamp of approval. Without it I was nothing. Not that this so called status ever paid the bills. I've been photographed by Scavulo and Avedon, and I've partied with the rich and famous. I was fond over by Hollywood royalty, and I was invited to meet the Queen Mother. Still, I was living on welfare and feeding off friends. Friends who saturated my ego with praise and told me I was fabulous. I couldn't help but believe this superstar bullshit was for real, and that I was indeed above the other welfare low lives on Avenue D. After all, I was a movie star, and the inspiration for Lou Reed's hit Walk on the Wild Side, a song about lives so reckless and so bizarre that I find them hard to believe myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, right. She was also known for that. That's so cool!

SPEAKER_03:

What? No. I know.

SPEAKER_01:

Um Walk on the Wild Side may just be the late great Lou Reed's most famous song. And the very first verse of that very famous song is all about Holly. I cannot play it because it's not free. But why don't you read it, Marissa?

SPEAKER_03:

I already paid$50 for this book, all right. That's right. And I can't sing it, so Holly came from Miami, FLA, hitchhiked her way across the USA, plucked her eyebrows along the way, shaved her legs, and then he was a she. She says, Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side, said, Hey, honey, take a walk on the wild side.

SPEAKER_01:

And I know you all recognize that now, right? Yes, like pets iconic. Iconic. Yep. So Holly left an undeniable cultural mark, but we have gotten way ahead of ourselves. So, um, because we are doing, we're starting from the beginning in this episode, right? I just wanted to give all the context, but you just wanted to whet our whistles. Yes, exactly. To get you excited to know that these episodes are exciting and full of full of intrigue, because they are. So um, so let's go back to the very beginning to a lovely little island called Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_03:

Misla del Encanto. Hollywoodlawn was born Haroldo Santiago Franceschi Rodriguez Dan Hackle. Dan Hackle. German, perhaps, in Ponce, Puerto Rico, on October 26th, 1946.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And I will be using um Holly's chosen pronouns for this episode, obviously. So uh just know that. But obviously, this is the beginning of her life. So her mother was Puerto Rican, and her father was an American soldier of German descent. So you're right. There you go. There you go. Her biological father married Holly's mother briefly when he realized she was pregnant, but then chickened out and headed back to the U.S. on his own. Ugh. Yeah, because young Holly's mother was working multiple jobs to make ends meet in San Juan. She was largely raised by her grandparents and extended family. Um Let me tell you something.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Ponce, if she if they were living in San Juan and she was Holly was born in Ponce, which is in the southern part of the island. And San Juan is like the northern part, northeast. They're not close. So if they were living, if she was born there and they were living there and she was and her mom was commuting to San Juan for work. How long would they be? Oh my oh my god. Oh back then? A couple hours each way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. That all that all makes sense. Um, yes. Yeah, so it's and and so she didn't really have time to be raising her child. She was working multiple jobs, and um some uh Holly says in the book that one of them is like rolling the edges of silk scarves, like kind of just tedious jobs that she's just piling up. So by her own account, by Holly's own account, her childhood was lively and filled with family celebrations and animals.

SPEAKER_03:

She says Having been raised in a household of eight aunts, one uncle, five cousins, two grandparents, six chickens, three pigs, and other assorted family members, I don't recall a moment's peace. Every time I turned around we were celebrating someone or something's birthday. This is so Puerto Rican. I'm like, yep, sounds right. Sounds right.

SPEAKER_01:

Sounds about right. So her desire for glamour and stardom seemed to be kickstarted while in Puerto Rico. Holly recalls celebrating Three Kings Day, dressed in a flam. Yep, which is uh she describes being a very big holiday, bigger than Christmas in Puerto Rico. That's what she said.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, Three Kings Day is January 6th, and um it's supposed to be the day that the Three Kings visited Baby Jesus. But really, for my parents, it was their opportunity to get us the stuff we really wanted, but they forgot for Christmas. Every time we really be like, Oh, the presentation, but what about this? And what about that? Like the little brats who were, and they'd be like, Well, maybe the three kings will bring it. Maybe yeah. Maybe that's nice. Maybe look at luck. Oh, yeah, you get a Christmas part too. It's great. That's very nice. It's very nice. And instead of leaving out like milk and cookies for Santa, we would leave out grass and water for the for the camels.

SPEAKER_01:

Much less effort, honestly. Except in the Well, no, but you're in Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, we did this growing up wherever we lived, all over.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you always you kind of always lived in warm places.

SPEAKER_03:

No, we lived in Virginia four seasons there.

SPEAKER_01:

We lived in Okay, so how do you find the grass when you were living in Virginia? Was that hard?

SPEAKER_03:

I know, but if there's snow. You're right. How did we find grass? I don't know. There was always some some grass somewhere. All I know is that the the bowls were always spilled, the grass was sprinkled throughout the house because sometimes the gifts would be under the tree and sometimes they'd be left somewhere else, and we'd have to find like the trail of grass, and the water bowl would just be like spilled over. The camel kicked it. Yeah, the camel kicked it. Because it wasn't that Thursday. So funny.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So Holly recalls celebrating Three Kings Day dressed in a flamboyant, sparkly shepherd's costume and loving every minute of it. Like her Yes, mama!

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, it's a sparkly moo moo.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, pretty much. And she was very much inspired by watching films with the famous flamenco dancer Lola Flores. Do you know who that is, Marissa? No, I don't. Okay. This is like a long time ago, but she wore long red polka dot dresses with a train and a red rose in her hair. So she was just, you know, a style. Very classically flamenco. Yes. Um, in so many ways, Holly's earliest years were happy, and she even describes them as a fairy tale. But the parts of it that were not so good seemed to be for two reasons: financial struggles and the fact that her aunts always wound up with drunks, women beaters, and other useless derelicts. Holly recalls when one of these derelicts walked out on her aunt, got into a fight with Holly's grandfather, and started choking him. And Holly jumped in as a very young child and tried to beat him away with a two by four barricade.

unknown:

What?

SPEAKER_01:

So that is a traumatic explanation. I know. Um eventually the financial struggles proved to be too much for her mom and probably also the commute. Let's be honest, after what you just said, Marissa, I did not realize that, and that is like a whole other level.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Commutes will kill you. I'm yeah. So um, it was decided that Holly's mom would move to New York City on her own and to get better opportunities and then send for her child when she was ready. So this all happened when Holly was about two years old, which is heartbreaking because that's how old my daughter is.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's like, Yeah, imagine Imagine like literally leaving for I mean, Puerto Rico is part of America, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sure. I don't give a shit. It's still an island away. Yeah. It's still the mainland, it's still far away, it's still we're not treated equally. We're not. We literally, it's taxation without representation. We are taxed and we don't have representatives. And if you live on the island of Puerto Rico, you cannot vote for the president. Insane. Isn't that insane? But it you live in like Florida or New York, nothing's you can. Yeah. It's it's a full-on colony. It's yes. It's a full on, full-on colony. Yeah. So when Holly was three. And we have voted, I got and and I think we voted like three times to become a state. We have voted yes to become a state, and Congress has done nothing. All right, continue.

SPEAKER_01:

I get heated. I get heated. I can't stress enough how much I expect nothing from them. But yeah. Um okay. Yeah. So yeah. Um, when Holly was three, her mother was working at a summer resort as a waitress and met Joseph Assenberg, a Polish Jew who had escaped the Nazi invasion. So a year or so later, they fell in love, got married, and sent for little Harold so that they could all be a family together. So Holly's grandmother accompanied her to New York to go live with her mother with the promise that Holly would spend the summer in Puerto Rico every year, which she did. After which is nice. Yeah. That is nice. And then her parents would like work at a kind of like a gig sort of job over the summer and make more money working harder, whatever. So after a couple years of living in New York, Holly's new dad, Joseph, got an opportunity to work at a high-class hotel in Miami Beach called Fountain Bleu. So the whole, so the whole family relocated. And once again, Holly found herself in a whole new world. As we all know, there has always been a vibrant queer community in Miami. I mean pretty much always. Yeah. And soon enough, Holly witnessed it for herself. And of course, it made her realize things about herself. The first time she clocked a group of gays was when she accidentally stumbled upon a gay beach.

SPEAKER_03:

She says, Here were actual queers, fairies, pansies, nansies, and fags. And with that kind of terminology floating around in my head, how could I have helped but assume that all homosexuals were nelly little darlings with goofy hair quaffed to perfection, their shoulders caressed by feather boas, wearing a rock on every finger and talking with a dead giveaway lisp. Boy was I ever in for a surprise. There they were, a smorgasbord of every type of man imaginable, exotic, outrageous, fabulous, decadent big little hunky chunky. Oh so many men and so little time and all in bikinis to boot roasting in the sun like beef waiting to be marinated.

SPEAKER_01:

She's just standing there drooling. Yeah. Drooling.

SPEAKER_03:

Seeing those men the way they were in reality and not the way society depicts them made me realize that there was more to being homosexual than the contrived stereotypical image. It also made me realize that perhaps these weird feelings I harbored deep inside me weren't as horrible as I had thought. This is why community is so important.

SPEAKER_01:

It is. It is. Holly then witnessed this marinated beefcakes beach get. I tried on that.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, you did sure did. You sure did.

SPEAKER_01:

Holly then witnessed this marinated beefcakes beach get raided by the police. Oh no, like all in that same moment, you know? So she didn't give voice to this in the book, but I'm sure that experience underlined for her that being gay was beautiful, but it was also extremely dangerous at that time. I'm sure. So Holly's adolescence and middle school years were filled with daydreams of stardom. She would put a towel on her head and swish it from shoulder to shoulder as if it were a long ponytail and lip sync to Connie Francis records. After Girl Same.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, yep. Same. Who did it? Who didn't do the towel pony? Who did it?

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. It's like this is the closest thing to like big hair I'm gonna have. Yes, exactly. Um, so in fact, there was a curtain dividing uh her family's living and dining rooms at her home, and she would use it as her stage curtain popping through for a surprise musical act while her mother played bridge with her friends.

SPEAKER_03:

Surprise! Surprise! It's me or big theater kid energy from the get.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, exactly. Um, for the most part, Holly's eyes were set on that gay beach, like she was a little fixated, but her first sexual experience was in eighth grade with a girl that shared her love of theater and Broadway. This is like an unnecessary detail I included just because I like it so go.

SPEAKER_03:

Her name was Hooch. Nancy Hooch. She was a burly kind of girl who ate prune pits and dreamed of driving a dump truck. Oh Nancy Hooch, my dear beloved Nancy Hooch, with her thick bushy brown hair and her smooth athletic body. At the ripe age of thirteen, she was four feet seven inches of gum chomping, chain smoking vixen, able to hurl a spitball further than anyone in class and sporting a self-inflicted tattoo of a skull on her left shoulder. She was more woman than I could handle, and more man than I'd ever be. What a dream first hookup.

SPEAKER_01:

I know it's so specific too. I love I love all the details.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, so into it.

SPEAKER_01:

So, but by high school, Holly had finally gotten the nerve to actually get to know the guys at the Gay Beach. And she was far more interested in being there than being at school. So the first rebellion, yep, the first rebellion came in the form of cutting class for the gay beach. The second came. Yes. Yep, yep. The second came when Holly decided to get her father's car keys copied so that she and her friends could use the car while he was working as a Maitre D and return it before he was done with his shift.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my God. They're outjoyriding.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. So the routine was that they would drop Holly off at home around 10 30 so that she could be back for her 11 p.m. curfew and then return the car to the hotel parking lot where her dad had parked the car so that he wouldn't know anything.

unknown:

It was different.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, did he never notice that the gas that there wasn't any gas?

SPEAKER_01:

They refilled the tank. They left time for that. It was it was plenty. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. It's very, very plain. Pretty smart. Yep. So one day, Holly's dad got off of work early. I mean, he works at a restaurant. Come on now. That's a good thing. Right. Come on. You get cut early. You gotta prevent it. It's slow. Yeah. He saw his car was gone and panicked. So as he was filling. No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No. Of course he did. Of course he did. Of course he thought it was stolen.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So it was.

SPEAKER_01:

It was. So as he was filling a police report out for his stolen car, he witnessed Holly's flamboyantly queer friends, like undeniably queer friends, roll up with the car and they told her father everything. They caved quickly. So yeah, you gotta. You gotta. Yep. So this resulted in an absolute grilling from Holly's father, who had just legally adopted her days before.

SPEAKER_02:

Days before. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So and in this and in this grilling, he asked. He's supposed to be German? No, just of German descent. Well, he did escape Nazi Germany, but I don't know. You can I think you could. Yeah, I guess he probably does have a little bit one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

How did they know you? So bad.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you just switch from Maritha? Just switch from Puerto Rican to German. Just real quick. Just do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Just re a little bit, just Eastern European isn't is sure. How do they know you? Are they your friends? Didn't you know that they were queer?

SPEAKER_01:

And finally the dreaded question. Are you queer? Holly broke down and said, Yes, I'm queer!

SPEAKER_03:

I'm queer. After that, Holly recalls I was so upset. I broke an ashtray and slashed my wrists. Well it was more like a scratch, but it was I was so caught up in the drama of it all. I didn't know the difference. And after all, it's the thought that counts, right? Oh my god. I mean, I know we're laughing, but this is very this is serious. It's very serious. I mean, there's I can't I'm just gonna outed with police officers there.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, there was no police officers there. It was her father grilling her. So it's like Okay, okay, okay. Like there are no police officers there. Okay. This was like at home. Yes. Okay, okay. But still, still mortifying. I mean, for the time period and everything. Yes. Um, so uh I'm I've been laughing so hard.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't I I need tissues because I'm like crying and sonotid.

SPEAKER_01:

I know, I know, but like this, this, this is what you said, you said, you know, that this is so serious, but we're laughing and everything. But that's kind of like how this whole book is. Like, I yeah, like like it There's so many things that you're like, oh no, but you're like Oh no, this is terrible. But obviously, you know, very dark comedy, like very dark comedy, but it's her doing the comedy, and she's so good at it. Like that's the thing. She's so yes, like so. It's just hard not to like I mean, it's so fucking hilarious. We're doing exactly what she wants us to be doing right now. So okay, great. Yeah. So this stunt landed Holly in a correctional facility called Youth Hall, but it didn't happen in Miami? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, and I guess another friend of hers, like peer from the same group, also ended up there. Like uh it's where parents sent their kids when they were like, I don't know what's happening. What to do with my gay kid. With my gay son, yeah. So um, but it didn't help Holly much, and it only emphasized the rift that had been created between her parents and herself, like in that moment, you know? Um and so she began to yearn for a way to be herself without feeling shame.

SPEAKER_03:

She says All throughout the young adult's life, he or she is taught be yourself, be an individual. But the truth is, my dear friends, when one is too much of an individual, then he or she is condemned, and I was not about to put up with that hypocritical bullshit. I needed to hear answers, not crap. Just who was I? And what were these feelings I didn't understand? What did I do? Where do I go? And most of all, why me?

SPEAKER_01:

I know. I know it's so it it's the feelings I imagine entirely for this situation. Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

So another queer friend, I know.

SPEAKER_01:

Another queer friend of Holly's named Russell had been hatching a plan to run away to New York City in search of freedom for similar reasons. And that sounded pretty good to Holly at that time, even though she was just 15 years old. I was just about to ask you how old she was at this time.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my gosh. Yeah, very good. So young. Yes. That's all I had wanted these last couple of weeks to be free. Free of the guilt from hurting the two people I love the most because of something I couldn't help or change. And since my home life had become strained and uncomfortable, there seemed to be only one true solution. I was going to run away. Yes. So in an act A runaway queer in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Right. It's been it's a tale as old as time. Yes. Um, so in an act that made Holly guilty for the rest of her life, like she said that in her book. Oh my god. Holly sold her mother's most expensive bracelet for$27 so she could buy a bus ticket out of Miami. What was that? What was what's the exchange rate? I want to know what that is. Um, I want to know what that's. I don't think it was I don't think it was that much. Let's see.$27.19. Let's say that would have been like$65 or something like that. It'd be$19.70. 1970. Okay, wait a minute.$20,$225. Yeah. So something. Something. But yeah, so she. That's crazy. The$27 was$225 at any point in time. Anyway, exchange rates are crazy. They're, I mean, that's crazy. That's inflation, baby. Inflation, that's what I meant. Inflation. I knew that was wrong as soon as I said it. I knew that was wrong as soon as I said it. Okay. Um, but where's that? So that was, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So she oh, she sold her mom's bracelet.

SPEAKER_01:

She sold her mom's like aquamarine bracelet, and she knew it was the nicest thing she had. Like it's so she felt guilty. And she said, like, to this day, she still tells interviewers that she um got the money from her paper root. And I heard that her her say that in an interview, and I was like, what? Like it didn't make sense to me. So because she's ashamed of it still, like she can't say it out loud, but she did write it in the book. So her friend Russell stole money from his grandmother. So that was not great either. And uh they bought two tickets to New Brunswick, Georgia, which was as far as they could afford to go. What? Yeah. So which now that you're telling me like how much that ex that inflation was. That feels that feels inaccurate, but I don't know. Maybe the money was needed for I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe it was$27 like in like 19 years. In now nowadays. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you know, she had already done the that math for us. Maybe because that seems more likely that$27 would only get you from Miami to Georgia. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

For sure. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. So um, so Holly was worried the whole way there that her parents would never forgive her. She like felt terrible. And not only for running away, but for pulling off her braces with tweezers at the bus stop.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god. Do you know how many nightmares I had when I had braces of me doing that, of tearing them out myself? I had so many nightmares of that. Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. Just like body horror nightmares.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm so horrified by my choice of braces. I really should have gone with just the metal that everyone does and just metal.

SPEAKER_03:

What did you do? What did you do? Tell the peer ones. So they're part. You did? Oh my god, they're awful. They're so awful. You think Invisalign is bad now, where you can see your spit bubbles, where you can clearly see the sheen of plastic over your teeth and your spit swimming around and the anchors on the nothing. Nothing compared to clear braces. And I always did baby blue bands around them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's the thing. You do like the colorful bands. These stupid, they look so dumb.

SPEAKER_03:

And then it's like they're like a soaked up. They're a bulkier too. I thought they would be smoother and like they would cut up my mouth less. That's what I was like, they'll be less painful. Terrible. So we're not.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So oh, but tweezers! She got them out with tweezers. Jesus Christ. I know. And also now that I'm a parent and I'm already like bracing myself for being like, okay, like someday you're gonna have to pay for braces. Someday you're gonna have to pay for braces. I do feel I do feel her parents' pain a little bit in this moment. I haven't even done it yet, and I feel her pain. So uh Holly recalls.

SPEAKER_03:

I didn't have any dreams. I had nerve. Plain, gutsy, risk taking nerve. Oh sure, I dreamed of not having to go to summer school, not having to abide by my parents' rules and not having to be responsible. I had no ambition and I didn't want any. I didn't need it because I was spoiled. I had never gone without, so how could I have possibly known what I wanted out of life? I had no idea what life was about. And there I was, off to New York, with no money in my pocket but plenty of nonsense in my head. My dream was that I wouldn't have to wake up and face reality. Well, I was in for a surprise. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know shit at 15.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my god, no, not at all. Not at all. I don't even I can't even go back that far anymore. I mean, I can, but I I do feel like I would like.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh the one time I thought about running away, I got to the end of my driveway and I was like, nah, this is stupid. This is stupid. This isn't. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna be I'm gonna be hungry in a couple hours.

SPEAKER_01:

Mine was like, mine was very much like a uh, it was like a in the moment thing. Like we were in a fight. I felt like there was no justice, like to summarize. And I just was like made a call, a couple calls, and was like, Can I stay? Can I stay? Can I stay? And I knew I had places to go, so I just I left. Oh, and now that I'm remembering this, I didn't take the car. She did take the keys. Oh my God, this is like so far back. I didn't take the car. My mom did get the keys for me, and I called somebody to come pick me up, and I didn't tell her what was going on, which is like shitty, honestly. I just like jumped in her car and was like floor it.

SPEAKER_03:

He peeled out of there into freedom for just a few days. How long did it tell the people? Just a few days, yeah. Just a few days. But it sounds like to me that Holly's runaway moment did not last just a few days.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Yes. So the plan for all of this was that when Russell and Holly got to New Brunswick, Georgia, they would use their God-given thumbs and hitchhike the rest of the way.

unknown:

Damn.

SPEAKER_01:

But a torrential downpour made that plan a bit of a bust. It's hard to hitchhike in pouring rain.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01:

The rain nightmare. Truly. At 15. Like just you're gay.

SPEAKER_03:

Why I would I would turn around so quick.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like literally everything is tell everything is telling Mother Nature.

SPEAKER_01:

Mother Nature is telling you to get on home now. Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the rain was beating down on them relentlessly, and then a flash of lightning revealed a small roadside hotel.

SPEAKER_03:

That's not creepy. That's not creepy at all. What the fuck? Yep. Yep. It's a little bit like the beginning of a horror movie. You can tell, you can tell that that she's lived her life as a privileged man up to this point.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I would never.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's the refuge. There it is. Um, I won't get murdered there at all. So they ran up to the door to get a room and had their first encounter with a fat elderly woman wearing a house dress and curlers. She said it would be$11 a night up front, but they didn't have any money.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a lot. Yeah.

unknown:

At the time.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a lot. At the time. For a creepy roadside motel. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. She probably was like used to like people doing crimes there and it was like a bribe built in.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right, right, right, right. It's like the cleaning fee. The deep clean fee.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for all the blood. Yeah. The lady was about to kick them to the curb, but a force of nature ended up doing that instead. Holly was standing right beside a soda machine during this interaction, and all of a sudden, a bolt of lightning was heading right for her. As Holly describes it.

SPEAKER_03:

Out from the universe descended an unleashed fury, which struck the soda machine with such force that not only was I dumbfounded, I was entirely ungrounded and tossed thirty feet in the air. What the fuck? Landing smack dab in the marshy earth. What the fuck? Literally everything's telling you to turn back, girl. You don't belong here. God just smote you. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Smoted the past tense of smite. Don't worry, I won't look it up. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_03:

It stays as in. It stays in. It stays in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. So probably relieved that a minor had not just died on her property. The quote, old hag, as Holly referred to her, gave Russell and Holly a room for free that night. She's like, here, you almost died. Have a rest. Yeah. Yeah. Have a rest.

SPEAKER_03:

Have a little bit of a rest.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So once they were in the room and had hung up their wet clothes, Holly watched as Russell painstakingly. Mm-stakingly plucked his eyebrows and set out his shaving gear. But that shaving gear wasn't just for his face. Holly saw his smooth legs and it made her want them for herself.

SPEAKER_03:

I knew about the rituals Russell enacted to look pretty. I just never had considered them for myself until now. All my life I had wanted to be glamorous. From the time I first saw Lola Flores glide across the silver screen to the day I discovered Lana Turner. The procession to the church during the epiphany, fantasizing about my living room shows with Nancy Hooch. Glamour I want Glamor Glamour I wanted it so badly and there I stood with thick eyebrows, buck teeth and hair on my legs. I was hardly the prototype for a starlet, I must admit, and if Russell was going to prim, pluck and puff with powder, then so was I So with a whisk whisk here and a whisk whisk there, the transformation was underway and out from all that shaving cream were unveiled two of the most gorgeous gams since Barry Gables The Transformation. The transform the glamour Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Now Holly tells this story in this 1992 interview with public access TV host Skip Lowe. But this is like when she's promoting the book that we're talking about, you know? Okay. But it's hard for her to complete a sentence because Skip keeps interrupting her and not letting her speak. In fact, his interviewing style reminded me a lot of the Martin Short character Jiminy Glick. And then I found out that he's actually the inspiration for Jimmy. And so I will be revisiting this interview again because it is like, okay, so there are multiple um there it's just it's the the the angle you'll see the close-up of of on both of them, like his face and especially it's too close, way too close. But then he has this, then he has this like host that introduces his weird show where she's like fully sitting in a chair and like full body. Do you know what I mean? Like in on a stool kind of. And yet the host, no, she's kind of like a she like introduces the show. She's almost like this sidekick or something, like like almost like a producer that jumps in on a podcast. Um, but she's like it's this public access TV from the 90s, and like she's she just seems like she's from a different shoot entirely. And then she's like jumping in with questions. Her name's Candy. And she jumps in with questions, being like, I'm sorry for all the listeners, can or the all the viewers, can we just like describe who this person is that you're talking about? And he was like, Oh, Candy, don't be an idiot. Everybody knows who that is.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01:

Absurd. But anyway, so we will be revisiting it because it delighted me. Like, honestly, he kind of stole the thunder from her. But anyway, so um, let me play. I'm gonna play part of this right now so that we can witness Holly tell this story in her own words.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, and now we'll get um, I'll get to see what she actually sounds like, and it'll be not nothing like what I've been doing.

SPEAKER_01:

The our my favorite moment every time.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I was with a friend, this mad queen with the eyebrows that went up here named Russell and long nails. And I used to, I was always Russell Seabor. I was obviously awe of of him and wanted to be like him. So anyway, I have to think he was an older person naturally. Uh you were 15, he was older. I was 15 and a half, he was 15 and three-quarters. Okay, okay, okay. So you're at the same age. No, I said I think he was about 16, 17. Okay. And uh so uh that night, oh so anyway, we were this this we were in the middle of the thunderstorm, and uh we were just gonna start hitchhiking. And the lightning hit this cuff machine, and I was thrown like 30 feet, and this big, big uh fat woman from this motel just you know came and uh gave us room for the night because she was scared that, you know, I don't know why. She voiced young boys 15 years old. Did they take no buttons away? She started selling drugs in the back. Right. Anyway, so that night um uh I shaved my legs and plucked my eyebrows. And I that's when it all began.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, and then Lucy noticed this about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that when it all began that night? That's when it all began.

SPEAKER_01:

So now you get it in her uh in her words. But um yeah. I'm gonna continue with my chosen accent. I like it. I like it. I'm pretty sure she probably had there's so many influences on her accent. Like you have to, you know. Oh, I was I was gonna say her accent is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Her accent is very influenced by a lot of different places. You have to like keep in mind, like she, yeah, she spent her early years in Puerto Rico. She like spent her then like a few years of her childhood in New York, couple years, and then went to Miami.

SPEAKER_03:

My accent, my accent has definitely changed through the years.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And then also her father was like uh, you know, German accent or Polish accent. Polish. Polish accent. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's a lot. That's a lot. Anyway. So um what followed all of this was a harrowing week of hitchhiking and second guessing. At one point, they were picked up by four Marines with Southern accents. And after chatting in the car for a quick bit, they ended up pulling over and got a hotel room for a little fun. Holly was too yeah. Holly was too young and scared to participate, so she waited in the car with two of the guys while Russell had a time with the other two inside.

SPEAKER_03:

Despite the fact that Holly did not participate, Russell proved to be more than enough to go around. That boy put out in more directions than a lazy susan.

SPEAKER_01:

So shortly after that experience, Russell and Holly had to spend the night in a car graveyard during another storm. They were hungry. Oh God! I know. Again, a car graveyard? Jesus Christ. They were hungry and out of money, and that's when Holly cracked and called her parents. As she tells it.

SPEAKER_03:

I called my parents bleeding into the phone, sobbing and carrying on about how sorry I was and how desperately I wanted to get back home. My mother was crying into the phone. She was so happy to hear from me that she and my father both apologized, telling me that they loved me and that they would send for me. I cried and I told them that I loved them too. My parents wired money to the local Western Union office in Fayetteville so I could purchase a bus ticket home. So Fayetteville, North Carolina, is where they were. Because I used to live in Fayetteville. Why am I Holly? I feel like why am I Holly? Why my god? Um, I feel such a kindred spirit with her. Um Fayetteville, I mean, that's where we lived in North Carolina, so I'm thinking she might be in North Carolina at this point.

SPEAKER_01:

She might, yeah, that makes sense. She would have gotten there this time. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

But when I got the money in my hands, I didn't purchase a return ticket for Miami. Instead, Russell and I went back to the Instead, Russell and I went back to the road and pursued our journey. Now I was really feeling guilty. But something inside me told me to take the money and run. I look back and think, God, how could I have done this to them? They wanted me to come home so badly and I turned my back on them. I defied them. But I loved them. It's just that I was so distraught and confused. I knew if I went back, it would end right back where it started, with me wanting to run away. And so we kept running. I know. So something in her told her to keep going, even though she felt so guilty, even though she loved her parents, even though they forgave her. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean But also 15. But also 15. But also 15, and also like I don't know what that's like. To be I have no idea what this whole thing is like. To be, you know, um, essentially, like she talks about we didn't really go into this, but she talks about just the look of like shame on their faces when she's like saying I'm queer and everything, and like just the word queer made her mom kind of start crying. And it's one of those things where it's like, how could you shake that image and know that they're like, We forgive you, we love you because they do, but it's also like I don't know, I think she probably just realized accept me. Do you accept me or are you just gonna always be ashamed of me? You know, and I think that do you forgive me for running away?

SPEAKER_03:

Do you forgive me for being who I am?

SPEAKER_01:

What uh yeah, what you think there was yeah, yeah, it's just such a totally different time, and I don't I don't know, like I'm not sure how to recon how you would reconcile that with your parents if they had any judgment about it, right? Yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, they also sound like wonderful people, and I feel really bad for them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they do, they do sound like wonderful people who were doing the best they could with the tools that they had at the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I think so. I really do think so. Yeah, yeah. Um so so they kept running, and after one more hitch from a trucker, they found themselves in New York City. Wow. And that is the end of part one.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_01:

Already? Yep, we didn't even make it. We didn't even scratch the surface. I know. There's so much. There's so much, but now you get a taste, you know what's coming.

SPEAKER_03:

What's what's coming next?

SPEAKER_01:

What's coming in the next few parts? Well, the next part is definitely gonna be the the New York, you know, the early era era.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um New York early, sorry, the early New York era.

SPEAKER_01:

The New York era, yes. And then I think there's and I think we're gonna go full on into the war haul of it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. No, it's there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of details. It's kind of it reminds me a lot of Mila in some ways, just because like I was like, wait, wait, wait. We have to tell, we have to like go really long and hard on this part that's before anything happened of note because it's crazy interesting and like such a big part of this person. So I do feel that way about yeah, this episode, of course. So it's like this is like the stage for all that is to come. But yes, so there will be more, more to come. But also, if you can get a copy of this book, even if it costs you$50, even it costs you$75, I would recommend that you uh purchase it. It is well, maybe we can do maybe we can do a giveaway of it. Maybe we can if I'm willing to give it up.

SPEAKER_03:

If you I was gonna say if you're if you're willing to part.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll think about it. I'll think about it. Oh, I will say this though, again, I feel like we have been away for a while. And the fact that so many people have been leaving comments and giving their support and really just being like, please come out with more episodes, like that means so much to me. That's awesome, you know. So I'm really glad you guys like it. That's really that means it does mean a lot. So I really appreciate all of all of that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, and you know, I much like the audience just show up and and enjoy and you're the talent. You are the children, and provide silly, silly voices. Yeah, no, no, no. This is like all the research. Courtney does everything, okay? Courtney does everything, and and she comes in with all the knowledge, and I come in knowing nothing. You know, that's that's what we talk about at the very beginning of every episode. Like, I know nothing about what we're gonna talk about. So, like, all this is thanks to Courtney Patricia Blomquist. Oh no, I feel don't give my God anyway. Don't get your legal all this is due to Courtney Blomquist, so we must give her flowers because flowers are due. Okay, she does so much work with I don't know what time, seriously. And she reads the that stuff, she writes the script, she finds the videos, she cross-references, she she does it all, folks. So thank you so much for leaving your appreciation in the comments because I appreciate her so much, and I'm glad you guys do too.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh. Oh, and I miss you so much, Marissa.

SPEAKER_03:

I miss you so much. Also, we're doing this all remotely, so it's a little, it's a little harder now. But we love doing this.

SPEAKER_01:

We love doing this, and we love, yes, it's it's it's perfect because then I feel like yeah, we have our catch up calls, we have this, we have, we have, we have everything. It's perfect. Like I'm I'm so grateful to have this space anyway. So yeah. But anyway, yeah, stay tuned for part two for sure. I'm gonna name And three and four and five? Probably not five. I don't think I'm gonna go for five, but there probably I it might be four. There might be four. I'm I'm thinking three or four.

unknown:

Shh.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Last time I didn't know. Oh, I can't wait. Yes, she's the heavy hitter. She's the heavy hitter. I think everybody else we're doing this season is is definitely one episode. So all right, so we love you guys. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. Your support and enthusiasm for the show are the reason we keep doing it. So thanks for the kind words. They really mean the world. If you liked the show or have ideas for episodes we could or should do, please drop us a comment in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and tell every Cinephile and Tapophile, fun fact, that's a person who loves graveyards, about your new favorite niche podcast. And if you want to see transcripts, photos, and sources for our episodes, check out our substack Dead and Kind of Famous. Dead and Kind of Famous is written, produced, and edited by Courtney Blomquist. It is hosted by Marissa Rivera and Courtney Blomquist. And special thanks to Jesse Russell, my husband, for allowing me to yammer on about the episodes before I can spill it all to Marissa. He tends to have some good insights and ideas, so thanks. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell and you're not dead yet. Until next time. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell, and you're not dead yet.

Head Shot

Courtney Blomquist

Host
Head Shot

Marissa Rivera

Host

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