Dead and Kind of Famous
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This is the podcast where two friends - one who's a nobody (Courtney Blomquist) and one who's kinda famous (Marissa Rivera) - dive into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time and now reside permanently in Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
So if you need to escape the now for an hour and you want to show your respect for some amazing life stories that have perhaps been forgotten, hit that follow button.
Because with your help, we can make sure that the stories of Hollywood's dead never die. And believe me - these stories are WAY too good to be forgotten.
Dead and Kind of Famous
Esoteric Escapades: Holly Woodlawn Part 2
From streetwalking to a pseudo housewife life, this episode is a journey in and of itself. Holly sold her body, slept on the subway, and even suffered from "streetwalking pneumonia". But she survived. She also met her future Warhol Factory counterparts, Candy Darling and Jackie Curtis, and found herself in a very serious relationship with a straight man who made the mistake of gifting her a Macy's credit card.
This isn't a tidy origin story. In fact, it's wildly messy and kind of terrifying. But it is in this episode that Holly steps into her own and finds her zone. You don't wanna miss this.
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Hello and welcome to Dead and Kind of Famous, where we dig into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time.
SPEAKER_00:And now reside permanently in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
SPEAKER_03:I'm Marissa Rivera, and I know nothing. But I do know what the sweet kiss of fall weather finally feels like in LA. My God. It's been so lovely. It's been beautiful. Walking with the dogs has been lovely. I can open up the windows and it cools down the house. And my neighbors finally have their there's this house on the next block over that goes insane for Halloween. And I fucking love it. The whole neighborhood loves this house.
SPEAKER_00:You remember it? Is this the one that has the skeletons that have like the angry faces? Yes. Oh my gosh. So I have the funniest thing about that. Iris, when they put those out, and she was like just barely, I feel like like just going on her first walks with us through the neighborhood now. She was such a Halloween girly that she saw these and was so obsessed with them that she would just like blow them kisses. Even though you look like these truly evil skeletons with like furrowed, angry, bony brows, and like she was like, I love you.
SPEAKER_01:I love you.
SPEAKER_00:Um and she would like like whine when we're like, you have to keep walking.
SPEAKER_02:And she's like, no, I love my skeletons. I love the skeletons. I love the ghosties.
SPEAKER_03:She loves saying ghosties. Ghosties. Um this year the theme, it's it's pirate themed. Um so this is this there's this whole thing. So what they do is they they do a whole story, a whole theme with all these skeletons, and they usually have a couple of tableaus. Um and then they just keep everything out. During Thanksgiving, they just put pilgrim hats on everyone, and then during Christmas, they put Santa hats and like elf ears on everybody. I love this. Oh yeah, we're not. This is it for the rest of the year, and it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:I love this mindset. I didn't do exactly that, but like I had those like inflatable ghosties when I was living in the backhouse, you know, that were there really just for Iris because you know, nobody could see our house because the house was in front of it. But like I put those out and then I left them up through Christmas, and it was like it became this is the ghost of Christmas past and the ghost of Christmas present.
SPEAKER_03:And that's how you really capitalize on your decor people. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, I'm Courtney Blomquist, and I know way too much, but I don't know. Um, I was trying to think about this before. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. I really it's honestly, I'm I it's all car stuff. I don't know so many car things. Like forget it.
SPEAKER_03:If my car didn't tell me exactly what he needs when, and gives me little codes and and lights and stuff, I just like, oh, this came on with codes A and B, one, two, three, and then I just text text the car guy, and I'm like, he's like, oh, just take a picture and I'll show up with what you need.
SPEAKER_00:And like yeah, and then that's it. And then that's that's the other thing. This is like more important. So I need to still I need to still register our car. And I was like looking for, I was looking for you can get a big ticket. I mean, this has happened to me every time I've moved everywhere. Yeah, it's not a ticket, they just charge you more money. But like, anyway, which is a ticket.
SPEAKER_03:A ticket is just charging you money.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Um, but so like I was like, where's the title? I can't find the title. And it's because they don't give you the title when you are making payments on a car, but they're they're supposed to like send it to you when you're paid off. So like I have paid off the car, and that happened probably like a year ago, but I never got sent the title. So now I have to like, I looked it up, I was like, like, look up the VIN number and like track it down. You have to get it through the DMV. I get yeah, but also there, yeah, yeah. So like that's gonna be a whole thing, which is annoying because I did, but I had I was able to register it before, so I'm like, I don't know, I just don't remember what I did. So I just I don't remember what processed. You usually don't need the deed to the car until until you try and sell it. Well, not the deed, but the it's the title.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I mean the title. Not the deed to the house. Uh see? See? We don't know shit. We don't know shit.
SPEAKER_00:We don't know anything. No, I know.
SPEAKER_03:I'm just like we don't know anything of except Courtney does know plenty about part two of Holly Ms. Hollywood Lawn. Oh, I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_00:This is this this section is a lot. So it's a chonky episode. It's it's just there's just a lot of things. And in fact, I wanted to end like a little bit slightly farther than where I'm actually ending here, but it's the they're truly as I was, I was like, wow, this is actually this is a lot. So um uh and it's also just a lot in terms of all of the things um that are in it, and I just want everyone to remember, like this is okay, so the shin wild shenanigans you're about to hear are, you know, just keep in mind that this all happens between the ages of 15 and 22. And actually, yeah, yeah. And we're just kind of cresting on 22, I would say. We might even just be ending on 21 here, so it's really like early life, early adult life. Um and uh I don't know about you, but those years for me were a massive confusion shifts. Yeah, like it's just and especially like 15 to like to me, that's like not even the same bracket. Like that's it's it's like 15 to I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:15 to 20 and 20 to 25.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, very different. Actually, 15 to 10.
SPEAKER_03:I was like completely and then 25 to 30, completely different people. I was a completely different person.
SPEAKER_00:But no, seriously, like 15 to 18 to me, that's just like adolescent. That's the end of adolescence. Like that's like, you know what I mean? That's you're just becoming an adult. And then and then 18 to like But you don't really become an adult. Yes, you don't really become an adult because your brain isn't even fully formed, as we've discussed many times on the show.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I yeah, I just want everyone to keep that in mind. Those are the ages we're talking about. Um they were, yes, they're always messy, confusing, identity issues, all these things for everybody, I think. But obviously they were for Holly, but she's also grappling with her sexuality and gender identity while trying her best to survive when plenty of people in her same situation did not. So I give her all the grace I have to give.
SPEAKER_01:I do too. Yeah. And we hope we do you do too, listeners, our fabulous listeners. Yes. So let's dig in.
SPEAKER_00:When we last left Holly, she had hitched her final ride into New York City from a trucker with her fabulous friend Russell. She'd accepted money from her parents who wanted her to buy a ticket and come home, but she didn't do that and on intuition continued on to New York City, even though she was struck by lighting.
SPEAKER_03:Let us not forget. Let's not forget. Literally smited, smote, smited by God.
SPEAKER_00:And yes, that happened, and she was still like, my intuition is stronger. I'm going to New York. So I love that.
SPEAKER_03:I love that so hard.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So when the trucker dropped them off in Times Square, Russell and Holly both realized quickly that run away to New York was not actually a complete plan. Like, not even a little bit. No, that's like an idea. Yeah, that's like that's an idea. That's a 15-year-old's idea. Um, they hardly had any money, they didn't know anyone, and they had nowhere to stay. They managed to find a dismal room in a cheap hotel to flop in. And then they tried to find jobs, but Russell was too loud a queen. And Holly was underage. So this resulted in a couple handfuls of nothing. And that is when Russell decided to call his grandmother, accept her money and forgiveness, and head back to Florida. And he bounced, he bounced so quick. Three weeks.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, three weeks. My God, all that for three weeks.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, three weeks he was gone. Hell of a three weeks. Yeah. So Holly wanted to do the same, but she felt so guilty about deceiving her parents that she couldn't bear to even pick up the phone. She was convinced they wanted nothing to do with her and assumed that they felt irreversibly betrayed by her.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's so sad.
SPEAKER_00:I know it is. And it's like it's such a big part. I mean, she really is like having so much heavy feelings about her parents. This is definitely not a like F you, I'm moving.
SPEAKER_03:Like, no, like I'm a disappointment and they won't ever want to speak to me again. I feel like you get so in your head. I I've learned now to just like, you know, when you watch movies and you're I'm always just like, if you only just talked to each other and stopped assuming things, then you know the whole movie wouldn't exist, you know, but it was like yell at the characters, right? And it's kind of like that's how that's how you that's how you are though when you're 15. You keep everything inside.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, exactly. So she started frequenting Bryant Park, where as she had discovered, all of the queens and hustlers congregated. And again, as far as Holly's terminology goes during this time, anyone born, and I've I'm saying this because like truly, again, we talked about this last time. Yes. Um, this is like the 60s and 70s that she's talking about. Like, it's just the way that they're describing people and things is um it's it's not uh the nuances aren't there that are there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, the vocabulary is not there.
SPEAKER_00:But it's starting, and a lot of it actually does carry through. So it's just it's interesting, but just keep that in mind. So um, she started frequenting Bryant Park, where as she had discovered, all of the queens and hustlers congregated. And again, as far as Holly's terminology goes during this time, anyone born male who was effeminate and had a penchant for experimenting with presenting female, even partially, was a queen. And it's kind of like you knew your queens when you saw them.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's like that's a queen, whatever. So, um, anyway, on the positive side of this terrifying scenario, she did start finding her people. One queen took pity on her and took her home to her apartment for a couple days, but that was not a situation that was going to last forever. So quickly, Holly discovered another group of queens in the park who all hold up together in a dank hotel room that they paid for by quote, hustling their young virile bodies for$20 a pop. So Holly was invited to join them. And because it was seemingly her only hope of maintaining a roof over her head, Holly snatched it up. But now, as a confused, queer 15-year-old boy, Holly found herself in the absolutely frightening position of selling her body under her then street name Howie. I don't feel like that fits her at all. No, I mean no, this is very like this is like the beginnings of everything. And like there, there's there's so much identity confusion in this entire section. This just there's a lot that doesn't match up in the beginning.
SPEAKER_03:Um I feel like my street hooker name would be like Lola Mince Meat.
SPEAKER_02:That is disgusting. That is disgusting. Oh my god. Okay. But would you mess with me? No. No. Well, not with not with a name like that.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Um so after August. Or maybe or maybe something cool like Lola Justice.
SPEAKER_00:Are you a superhero? Are you a street?
SPEAKER_03:Like I was a sex worker. What's happening? I'm having an identity crisis, Courtney. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, yes. So after awkwardly hanging in dark doorways and trying to hide the fear on her face for a few days, Holly turned her first trick. A 40-something man picked her up, took her back to his place, and talked to her for a 40-something let's let's be clear.
SPEAKER_03:A 40-something year old pedophile.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, I didn't even put that together until just now.
SPEAKER_03:A 40-year-old pedophile. Not a man, a pedophile.
SPEAKER_00:Jesus. And she looked young too. Oh my god. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03:Of course. She's Latina. We look young till we're like 67.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. How what what age did you look like when you were 15?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god, I looked like I was 12. 11. I looked like I was I looked like I was 15 until I was like 20. I've seen that's the truth. Yeah, there was no use in me getting a fake ID because it I mean, and I was like, I was like bare like a hundred pounds stopping. I don't think I had I had gone, I hadn't even gone through like my final growth spurt. I hadn't even hit five feet. Like I was just like so I looked like a fucking child. I was a fucking child. Right. Let's be clear.
SPEAKER_00:And it's so Holly. Yeah, yeah. So a 40-something pedophile picked her up, took her back to his place, and talked to her for hours about a beautiful young man that he'd been in love with, and then he took her to bed. And to her relief, it wasn't as scary as Holly had imagined.
SPEAKER_03:As Holly tells it, it was nothing wild, nothing kinky, very innocent, as a matter of fact. Like the kind of sex you have with someone for the first time, and you don't want to offend or scare them.
SPEAKER_00:From this, Holly earned not the standard$20, but a full 50 buckaros. Whoa! 60. So it was such a jackpot in her eyes, and the Miami hotel crew was able to live collectively off of it for three full days. Damn, what a provider. A provider. A provider to her new, very, very new friends that she was sharing a single hotel room with. Um, but this was not the typical result of Holly's street walking.
SPEAKER_03:Whenever I was approached, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. And if I scored, half the time I'd forget to take the money, and when I did take it, I'd give change. I wasn't bracin enough. I had to be harder, tougher, you know, take the money and run. To hell with putting out. Not me. If I put out, I was thrilled to get paid because usually I was too embarrassed to ask for money and simply gave it away. I was a disgrace to the world's oldest profession. There I was, practically starving to death, freezing my ass off on the street and allowing myself to be taken advantage of without the nerve to ask for cash. Honey, if I made ten dollars, I was happy. But along with that thin moment of happiness, there came a heavy load of guilt. My parents were always on my mind. I had hurt the two people I loved the most in this world, and felt like there was no possible way I could ever resolve what I had done to them. I felt so alone. I used to cry at night thinking about them.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, this is so sad.
SPEAKER_03:I hate this. I know it's getting she's hooking and she's not even getting money.
SPEAKER_00:I know, and she's 15 years old and she's thinking about her parents the whole time. It's just like so I promise this gets more fun. But this is yeah, really, really, really rough start. So clearly Holly has already hit a terrifying low point, and she's only just arrived in New York City. But the emotional load of it all and the fact that she was a lousy sex worker was enough to push Holly into leaving the hotel, even though she didn't have anything or any options. So she crashed here and there, slept on the subway or in all night movie theaters, and cleaned up in the shower stalls at Grand Central Station for a quarter if she was lucky enough to have one that day. She found cheap food at the automat, which is the little futuristic cafe vending machine in New York, that I believe is still there. It was there when I was there. Have you ever been to that? Uh-uh. Yeah. Like it's like um, you can get pie or a sandwich or like these kinds of like real food, not like you know, packaged processed food, um, from a little box in like a rotating clear column, and you just like pay and then the little door opens, but you never have an interaction with anyone. You just take your stuff.
SPEAKER_03:My my kind of my kind of interaction. I don't have to speak with anyone, and I get food great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So anyway, Holly was surviving, but barely. Uh, she started to talk to and befriend other people like her, aka weirdos living on the edge. Soon Holly was surrounded by a rowdy cast of characters with whom she shared many a misadventure. So let's let's start there. Let's dig in. Okay. Um dig in.
SPEAKER_03:Let's dig in.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. First, there was Libra, a blind. Blonde Marilyn Monroe worshipper and beautician who never paid attention to Holly when seeing her bumming around Bryant Park, but finally struck up a conversation with her when he spotted her at an after hours bar. Holly was trying out a new look. This look was comprised of eyelids laden with heavy gold and green glitter, lots of black eyeliner. Yes, girl. Holly was very into the movie Cleopatra at the time, very inspired. All those nights at the 24-hour theater. Yes. And hair that she teased to the gods, but only in the front. She was homeless and putting herself together in a Grand Central Station bathroom stall, so she couldn't really see the back of her head, which was left untouched and flat.
SPEAKER_03:I love that she admits this. But also, like the back of my head is not my business. You know what I mean? I truly believe that. The back of my head is definitely not my business.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I could I could not be bothered with the back of my head. I didn't know that I believed that, but I I also believe this. Um I also believe this. It's like I I think I look good, and I guess that's all.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. You know what from what I could see? I look great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you gotta keep it moving.
SPEAKER_00:Libra sees her at this after hours bar and he didn't mince words. He told Holly that he thought she had beauty queen potential, but that at the moment her teased out hair was making her look like Phyllis Diller.
SPEAKER_03:Oh her first read.
SPEAKER_00:Damn, damn. Taking pity on her, Libra took her into a stall and helped refine Holly's look. And from there on, they became friends who liked to party.
SPEAKER_03:We would dance the night away, doing the roach and the mashed potato while downing all sorts of pills. Uppers, downers, tunnels, Seconals.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know what any of this shit is, so you're gonna your guess is as good as mine.
SPEAKER_03:Secondas, black beauty's escaroles. Or maybe it's escaroles. I don't know. But to me it looks like Escaroles anything at all. We didn't have a care in the world, and the thought of overdosing never entered my mind. If it was there, I swallowed it. It was that simple. It's like me and dicks. I'm kidding. Oh my god. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm very picky about the dicks I put in my mouth.
SPEAKER_00:Even when Marissa's in a room filled with dicks and she just stumbles upon it, she just she sometimes walks out without touching any of them.
SPEAKER_03:Without a single one. And that's because I'm 100% positive. That's not the way you say that. Oh my god. Okay. Someone leave us in the comments what the fuck that is. Esqueroles, E-S-C-A-R-O-L-E-S. I could Google it, but I'm in the middle of the city. The sixth grade. I've heard of black beauties before.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that and secondals, like uh uppers, downers. I mean, really, you're getting it. Uppers downers. Right, right, right. Like there, it's all different versions of that. I mean, pretty sure.
SPEAKER_01:You speed things up, you slow things down. That's right. That's what all of them were doing.
SPEAKER_00:So when Libro was hit with the double whammy of losing his boyfriend to prison and losing Marilyn to overdose, his his beloved Marilyn Monroe. Oh my god, the grief. Yes, he disappeared for a while to his mother's apartment in Brooklyn, but would eventually resurface in Holly's life.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Then there was the Duchess, a 30-something Native American who lived on welfare at a$15 a week hotel and lied through his teeth or her teeth. Holly is confused about how to gender this friend and speaks to that. Um, I'm just gonna keep it with he because that's what she did. Um okay, so uh, but he lived in a$15 a week hotel on welfare and lied through his teeth about having a rich boyfriend. Well, actually, he didn't really have any teeth to lie through. Um, but he claimed to give the best head in Manhattan because, quote, I gum.
SPEAKER_02:No, no.
SPEAKER_00:There's so many explicit details in the story. I probably should have led with that anyway.
SPEAKER_03:Of this claim, Holly said, I didn't know from experience, but he bragged about it so often that I just assumed it was true.
SPEAKER_00:Whatever you say, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Whatever you say. I mean, still 15, maybe 16 at this point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It was with the Duchess and two other unnamed hustlers, she calls them hustlers, that Holly decided to make a random pre-winter break for Hollywood when one of them found, stole, or borrowed a car.
SPEAKER_03:We couldn't afford any winter coats, and this seemed the only logical thing to do before the cold weather set in. Hello.
SPEAKER_00:Again, probably 15. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um like couldn't find winter coats, so we stole a car, grand theft auto to go to to drive to LA.
SPEAKER_00:Let's just keep in mind that Holly's 16, but the Duchess is 30 something. His 30s, yeah. Like, come on. Um so everyone's on drugs, is to the best of my uh judgment or you know, kind of read of the situation here. Um, but while passing through Shreveport, Louisiana, which is not on the way, I feel like. No, no, everyone on these in these episodes, they just they don't look at it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, again, lots of drugs. Lots of drugs, yeah. The Escaroles.
SPEAKER_03:The Escaroles took them down south to Louisiana.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, but while passing through Street Port Louisiana, the Duchess was arrested for lewd conduct in a public restroom. And Holly leaves us readers with the task of imagining what that lewd conduct may have been. Um, I have ideas. I don't know if we I have ideas.
SPEAKER_03:I I have a few. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Anyway, he was arrested and thrown in jail. And because they were all broke and had no money to bail him out, they made empty promises that they'd send for him when they got settled in Hollywood. But they but they weren't the best people to fulfill such a promise.
SPEAKER_03:And Holly says, Hell, as far as I know, the Duchess is still in Shreveport.
SPEAKER_00:It's that's so funny.
SPEAKER_02:She's still there.
SPEAKER_00:It's crazy. Anyway, that's yeah. In any case, Hollywood was not in the cards for Hollywood lawn. Holly and the other two only made it to Houston where the car broke down, according to Holly.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, well, you know what? If you've ever done that drive on the 10 from so I-10 takes you from one coast to the other. It takes you from Florida all the way to LA. It takes you from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to the Pacific Ocean. It's crazy. And driving through Texas takes like three days, four days. It's just I know so many people who did that and whose car broke down in Texas. It's because it's never fucking ending.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's j it's gonna trap you.
SPEAKER_03:Um so according to Holly, there we sat, stranded in a strange city of redneck homo haters, so homophobic they were afraid to drink from a milk carton branded homogenized. Darling, these people They haven't changed. Darling, these people, if that's what you call them, but I'd rather refer to them as feeble-witted little toads who don't talk at all but simply uttered words off their thick tongues as if they were spitting up gravy. Whatever they said, it certainly wasn't articulate. And I just adore articulate people. Not these narrow-minded hooligans and dusty pickup drugs who despised anyone who isn't white or beer bellied. She's like, these Texan people are not my people. Right, she knew it. So the whole the whole the whole milk carton read, I feel like that literally that is literally it's literally today, too. Like I know these raw milk drinking motherfuckers. Yep, yep. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:So even though the other two decided to crash in a hotel and figure out uh a way on to Hollywood, Holly was wise enough to bounce on back to New York. But she didn't have a car or any money. So problems. So problems to be a couple, yes, just just just a few, just a few little humps. So she hung around the nearest bus station until an older gentleman seemed interested in her wares. Again, an older pedophile. Yep. Um together, they went to a cheap hotel to do what they did. And then after he'd fallen asleep, Holly robbed him of everything he had in his wallet.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, girl, get it finally. Yes, rob the pedophile, rob the pedophile and run.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I don't feel bad about this anymore. It was$90 and headed back. Um, and then she headed back to the bus station to buy.
SPEAKER_03:Anymore? Wait, you don't feel bad about it anymore?
SPEAKER_00:I there was like, I think I'm just like, I don't know. I have this thing about this whole section. I realized that I I should actually probably speak to this. I feel like speak to it, girl, speak to it. I okay, so like I be I'm trying to be like, oh, these are the early years, like all these things, right? There's confusion, there's identity things, whatever. And I'm just, I think because we're living, I'm not like trying to get political right now. Unfortunately, like being a trans person is political at the moment. So I guess like I just really want people to hear this story and to um not be judgmental to the best of their abilities because I just feel like of Holly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like I'm not judging Holly. I'm judging the shit out of everyone who's you're not. Well, yeah, yes. But I feel like But as the voice of the people, Courtney.
SPEAKER_00:As the voice of the people. I I it's true, I just like I'm kind of protective, I guess. Because of worse. I and so because I get to I feel like I get to know these people and I'm so protective. And I'm like, you know, don't like don't judge her because you know, there there are there are many. Don't judge her. I applaud her. I applaud her. And also there are, but there are many, there are many like, come on, like I mean, she's like a teenager. Like it's just there's there's a lot of stuff like that. It's a it's a lot of horror movie moments of like, don't go in the house. Um, so yeah, just saying. Um, but I'm glad to get that off my chest. Great, feel like a weight is lifted. Good, good, good. I'm so glad. Yes. So, so she robbed this man blind,$90. Um and she had, yep, great, great, great, great. Smart, smart witted person. This is like, and that's like a survival thing, too, by the way. Like, I gotta get out of here. I'm gonna do this. Great, let's go. Um, so she headed to the bus station, headed right back, and bought herself a ticket home. Upon arrival in New York City, she was faced with her original problem. She had no winter jacket. Oh my god. So at this point, Holly caught a case of street walking pneumonia.
SPEAKER_03:Pneumonia? I don't know how to say it. Pneumonia. But I'll I get in the accent. Holly caught a case of street walking pneumonia. Fun fact here, Courtney caught a case of walking pneumonia. Not street walking pneumonia, but walking pneumonia.
SPEAKER_00:It wasn't walking pneumonia, it was just straight up pneumonia. It was straight up pneumonia. Walking pneumonia is like the kind that you don't have to like be hospitalized for.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, no, no, no. Courtney went to the hospital.
SPEAKER_00:It was to the hospital for a full week. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's my like, that's my uh, I I think that might be my near-death story. That's that's Courtney's brush with death. That was my brush with death. And I I didn't think that at the time, but as I was leaving, the nurses were like, they were like, she was like crying, and she was like, I just want you to go out there and live. And I was like, wait, did I almost die? What's happening? Um yeah, it was pretty bad. Yeah, but Marissa was there, she visited me, she was wonderful. As you know, this is this is we are not fake friends. We are not fake friends, we are real friends. That is the truth, that's the fact for you all. We would never do a podcast if we were fake friends. Some people are like decide they have chemistry and they should just do a podcast, but it's like how they become friends, and that's not us.
SPEAKER_03:No, the mono the pneumonia and the friendship came before. Yes, they came before.
SPEAKER_00:So anyway, Holly gets her street walking pneumonia. She wanders into a hospital, and because she had no money, or or of course no insurance, um, they laid her up on a cot in the hall until she recovered, and then she was tossed back onto the street to hustle for my keep or sleep in Grand Central Station. And I just want to say, would they even do that now? Would you even be like put in a hall with a cot now? If you wandered in with no money in turn?
SPEAKER_03:Um I actually don't know. I have been at the ER uh once while an unhoused person was um in a bed, but definitely like the the police were waiting to like ask questions and like okay, get him to basically get up and go, I think. I is that's both sad and it's the same. Everything's the same, Courtney.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's weirdly like in my mind, that's mildly reassuring because I thought it was bad enough that they're like, nope, sorry, you're not even leaving.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know what? You know what? This was probably five plus years ago, so who knows? This this was this was pre- pre-pandemic, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's terrible either way, but I mean, like, yeah, I just hope people can actually still get treatment. Um, so uh she was fully convinced, Holly was fully convinced that all of this awfulness was a punishment for the grief she'd caused her parents. Oh girl. And this kind of homeless wandering lasted for a whole year. So she's just like crashing places, like all the yeah, just nuts. So freezing, literally freezing. Yes. Eventually she caught up with Libra again. I told you he would resurface, he did, who was still sad about all his boyfriend and Marilyn Monroe stuff. But he was ready to move into his own place in the garment district. And as Holly told it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Libra was so lonely and miserable. I decided it was my chivalrous duty as a friend to move in and keep him company.
SPEAKER_00:It was her duty, also needed a place to live. Yeah. What a good friend. What a good friend, and how convenient. Um, it was Libra who convinced Holly to seek gainful employment in the same way he had as a hairdresser and beautician. Okay, yep, yep, good ideas, but that required school, and school required money. Nothing has changed, guys. Nothing has changed. It's the same. So Holly finally made a phone call home to her parents. Yes, that's what it's like. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:No, not the year of homelessness.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So they were actually really happy to hear from her, and they sent her money to come home for a visit. Holly's father knew that she wouldn't be happy at home, and he supported the idea of her going to beauty school. So to Holly's great surprise, he helped her pay for it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Papa Hollywoodland. I know.
SPEAKER_00:It's very sweet. I feel like, yeah, Papa Woodland. Her parents generally genuinely wanted her to like they're not. They're so supportive. They're very supportive, and and I just feel, yeah, if there's so much pain in that whole part of the story, but I'm glad that they never they were always just responding with love, which is amazing. And people could learn from that, I think, in many instances today. So um back in New York, she became a beauty school student. She spent her evenings heading out to Greenwich Village with Libra to experience the the last of the Beatniks and their bongos and be very quote esoteric. She always. Says that in this book. She's like, we were very esoteric. We we went out and we drank and we had deep conversations in coffee shops, and we were very esoteric. And I love it. Emo. She's very emo. Yeah, she says it so many times. And it makes me want to use that word the same way people are using, like, or were using um like demure, you know, just like incorrect. That little chestnut of a trend. Um, and it was during this time out that she what is it? Very demure, very oh, it's it's very it's like very whatever, and then very demure. You always end with very demure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, very demure.
SPEAKER_01:So it'd be like very lovely, very esoteric. Very demure. Yeah. Very demure.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um and it was during this time out that she spotted a beautiful androgynous figure that was standing solo and looking aloof. Libra and the rest of their queer counterparts considered this person to be a snot-nosed bitch. But for Holly, this figure was to become her lifelong friend and fellow Warhol superstar, Candy Darling. Candy Darling. It's Candy Darling. And at this particular moment, Candy was not yet, quote, living as a woman, as Holly would say. But then again, Holly wasn't there yet either. Eventually, Candy would, and she would bleach her hair into her signature look, but not yet, as Holly explains.
SPEAKER_03:I used the word he because at this time Candy wasn't living as a woman. He just looked like a very pretty boy in makeup hiding behind dark sunglasses, his face peeking out of an upturned trench coat collar. I guess he was trying to be Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman, all rolled into one.
SPEAKER_00:Candy was very queer, very starry-eyed, and very obsessed with old movies. And even that far back, Warhol was on her radar and she wanted to be a superstar. And even Candy's mother referred to her as Candy when she was still living as a boy. In fact, Candy started wearing women's clothing in order to dress as Joan Crawford to please her own mother, who was obsessed with her, with Joan Crawford.
SPEAKER_03:That's a wild story. It is a wild little insight in Candy's. I know.
SPEAKER_00:There's there's many others with this with her, but like that's what we have time for. Um felt like it was important.
SPEAKER_03:So we'll put a pit in that. We might come back to that later.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh yeah. We'll see more of Candy. Um, so soon Holly, Candy, and Libra were hanging out nightly to be esoteric together. And on one of these nights, Holly was walking home with Libra when a handsome curly-haired man in a Buick kept circling the block and making eyes at them. When Libra You know, you know the look, you know the look, you know the eyes. Yep, yep. Um, and also it's like that would creep that would be so creepy at first. You're like, there's a car, it's but yeah, that was to me, it seems scary. Like it keeps circling the block.
unknown:What's happening?
SPEAKER_00:Um, Libra was ballsy enough to walk up to the window and inquire about who he was interested in, and he made it known that his eyes were set on Holly. So Holly got in the car with her heart racing.
SPEAKER_03:Exciting love scenes flipped through my mind like the pages from a cheap romance novel. What if he tore off my clothes, ravaged me with his jackhammer, and tossed me in the gutter? Or worse, what if he didn't? They sat there, chatted, and made eyes at each other. We made small talk for a while, and after I learned his name was Jack, his favorite TV show was my favorite Martian. He was twenty-two years old and work as a pressman for a big city newspaper, I figured it was okay to kiss. That's when I learned that he was straight and only kissed women. There I sat with my lips puckered, ready for Loveland, and all he wanted was some head. The nerf Now I am sure you are all wondering why a straight man would have any interest at all in a feminine little thing like myself Well that was just it. I was feminine. So feminine in fact that I was usually mistaken for a girl. And for a straight man during the early sixties who wanted to, shall we say, release himself without having to do it himself, a young man who looked like a young woman was the safest way to sexual gratification without the hassle of courting condoms or shelling out bucks to a hooker. He asked me if I wanted to do anything with this straight man. Hell yes, I wanted to do something. I wanted to go shopping. I wanted to go see a movie. I wanted to be romanced over a pizza pie for Christ's sake. I didn't want to put out and be thrown out like a some flucy.
SPEAKER_00:It's disturbing to me how much you sound like your mother. I'm just gonna yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like sometimes I was like, ah, we keep going.
SPEAKER_03:Especially we're gonna really when I get really traumatic. Yeah. That was just a fantasy in my mind. I wanted to be Doris Day. And since I was shy and I wasn't entirely comfortable with the idea of doing it in a car with someone I had just met, I bade him farewell, hopped out of the car, and raced around the block to find Libra.
SPEAKER_00:So that's that's what she did. Libra was mildly horrified that nothing happened and that Holly, quote, didn't even feel it. She's like, what? What? It's like like waiting for a really good, juicy story and just gets like nothing. Um, so when Jack rolled up in his Buick a week later on the same block, Holly got in the car again, and this time she felt it. But he wouldn't kiss her. He kept insisting that he didn't do it with men. And yet he kept and yes, and yes, he kept insisting upon picking her up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So this went on for several weeks, and things never went too far, largely because of Holly.
SPEAKER_03:The thought of being caught by the police. Can you imagine the humiliation? Sodomi was illegal, although I really didn't know this myself. I thought sodomy was a cute little name for a poodle. Or was that Salome?
SPEAKER_00:But one night, Jack asked where she lived. And at this point in time, Holly and Libra had both moved in with Libra's mother in Brooklyn. And as fate would have it, Jack himself lived two blocks away. Oh interesting. Very interesting. So he actually ended up.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. He was their neighbor.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Yep, because when I said I should clarify that when I said they were walking home before, you know, they were walking like to the subway. They were on their way home, but they weren't really close to Brooklyn. They weren't in Brooklyn at the time. So that is kind of crazy. Yeah. So he actually ended up driving Libra and Holly home that night, and she gave him her number. Jack started coming over when Holly got out of school. They had long, deep talks about religion and life, and eventually they had sex. This happened over and over. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:But it meant full-blown relationship, okay?
SPEAKER_00:Kind of, kind of. It's still still kind of heading there, but not there. Because it still made Holly feel cheap because Jack always left quickly and still refused to kiss her. They had sex, but he wouldn't kiss her. What? Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:What?
SPEAKER_00:So much denial. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god. How very one's having an identity.
SPEAKER_00:How very pretty woman of him.
SPEAKER_03:I know.
SPEAKER_00:I know. But eventually, in the heat of passion, he did kiss her.
SPEAKER_03:That's when I knew how it felt to be truly fulfilled. The seed had been planted, the fields had been plowed, and a romance had blossomed. I don't like this. I gotta say, I don't like this bread crumbing. I don't like it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, there's there's we're gonna there's good and there's bad in all of this. So a few months later, Jack was ready to move out of his parents' place and get his own apartment. And he wanted Holly to live with him. So he really jumped in fast. He's like, all right, you know what, whatever. I do want to be with you. I will kiss you. In fact, come live with me. So big, big, big U-turn here. Yeah. So she did move in with him, and they lived in an apartment in Queens. And it was right around this time.
SPEAKER_03:I just want everyone, I just want to remind everyone, Holly is what, 16 at the time?
SPEAKER_00:Uh at the same point. She's probably 17. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:17.
SPEAKER_00:He's 22. Yeah. Ay, ay, yay. Yeah. So um, so they're living in this apartment in Queens. It was right around this time that Holly truly became Holly and in her words, started living as a woman. This is like the big defining you, it's like that's how the way she describes it with everybody. You're so you're living as a woman.
SPEAKER_03:Um and she's like playing house.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, very much so. So she landed on Holly, the name Holly, by altering her street name Howie.
SPEAKER_03:I changed the W to a pair of L's and added a Y. Ta-da! It's supposed to be ta-da. Ta-da. Ta-da.
unknown:Sorry.
SPEAKER_03:God, so how am I supposed to perform under these conditions? All of these typos. I'm getting these shit ass gigs. I'm kidding. Uh-uh. I changed the W to a pair of L's and added the Y.
SPEAKER_00:Ta-da! It was later that she would land upon Woodlawn as her last name. So I will leave that for later. This transformation is a big one and it takes time. So you're gonna have to take the time with us. Holly wore subtle makeup and her hair shoulder length, and Jack told the landlord that she was his wife. No one asked any questions, even though she was 17. Like, let's just that's like more unbelievable to me, much more unbelievable, actually. Anyway, um yeah, this is just my 17-year-old wife. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:Um that time, I don't know, got married and moved out of their parents' house to move in with their selves.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So it's I guess it's not that far.
SPEAKER_03:Which is exactly what Jack did.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, pretty much, pretty much.
SPEAKER_03:Except except for the whole legally getting married.
SPEAKER_00:Right. They didn't they didn't do that. Um so she was thin smart, smart, smart. Right, right. Well, it would have been pretty hard to do that.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yes, back then. That's right, that's right. You're correct. I keep forgetting. I keep forgetting. Holly. Okay, okay. Holly is living as a woman and as a wife.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. She was thin and pretty, and no one was the wiser. But because she knew that Jack was basically straight, she describes him as basically straight. Like she knows, like, you're not completely straight, dude. Anyway, she wanted to go even farther to make herself feel more womanly. So a friend of Libra's introduced her to a doctor who had successfully treated sex changes in the past, and he started treating Holly with female hormone shots.
SPEAKER_03:And within a few months, I was looking damn good in a tight sweater. My change into womanhood was a gradual one. My breast developed slowly, and to complement my figure, I wore hip pads. I felt so comfortable with my new identity because it was easier for me emotionally and mentally to pass as a pretty girl than a funny looking boy. When I was a boy, I got harassed and had to endure ridicule. When I was a girl, I got whistles. No longer was there a struggle between me and society. I was gorgeous. And also, I just felt so much better inside. I gained confidence and became more outgoing. Otherwise, I was just a fag. A misfit, a thing, and I was miserable because I felt like a freak of nature. But when I put on a dress, fixed my hair and painted my face, I became a true human being. And it was then for the first time in my life, I felt worthwhile.
SPEAKER_00:It kind of it makes me tear up, actually.
SPEAKER_02:Like it's just me tear up.
SPEAKER_00:It's this is this is why this is this is this is what that transformation is for people. Just so I and I feel like she puts it so well. Like I've I've I've my writing is minimal in this, and I'm quoting a lot of the book because I really just feel like her words describing it are what's important, you know, in this part. So anyway, she and Jack were in love, and Holly started living like a full-on housewife with a Macy's credit card to buy the latest appliances and everything.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she like this is a big turn, a real big turn.
SPEAKER_01:She was a real big turn.
SPEAKER_03:From her circumstances, merely a year. Robin pedophiles.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:But there was a problem. Holly was enrolled in beauty school as Herald.
SPEAKER_03:Every morning after breakfast, I'd have to get dressed in jeans, a nondescript blouse, high heels, dark glasses, and take the subway to Times Square, where I'd dash into the subway bathroom, take off my makeup, change into my sneakers, pack Holly into a gym bag, and resume my previous identity. Then when I got out of school, I went back to the subway station, changed back into Holly, and became a wife again. Damn.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Quick changes in the subway bathroom. She's like an actress, honestly. The amount of times I've done this.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Oh in my car. Yep. Yep. In in bat random bathrooms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but that's like that's a gross bathroom. That's what I keep thinking. I'm like, oh like, like I just wouldn't even want to go in there. You know what I mean? Like, ugh. So Holly hated this double life because of course she did. Like, how could she not hate this life? So one day she headed to school in her heels and makeup and went as herself, Holly. For this, she was promptly expelled. And this is something Holly, it's like I'm angry about it. I'm angry about it as me. Yeah. But this is something Holly accepted rather easily. Of being expelled, she said, Well, kiss my chocha.
SPEAKER_03:Who needed that drug-infested dump anyway? Jack was making a good living. So why should I learn about beauty? What was there to study? You either are or you aren't. And I was. Case closed. And with what? And with that little load off my mind, I became a full-time housewife. I painted my nails. I painted my face. I even painted the apartment. Whoa. So she's not, she's not that upset about this. I'm upset about it. I'm upset. That's because when you're young. Yeah. When you're young, you don't know to never tie your financial independence to someone else. You just like, oh, you get a chance to like take a break from from work and grind and the school and like someone's quote unquote taking care of you. I think that's why the trad wife movement has kind of taken a hold because, like, of course you don't want to fucking work. It fucking sucks. But you know what sucks more? Being financially abused. But also, I can understand, like, she was fucking homeless a year ago. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I if I were seven, tired. I exhausted. She's lived, she's lived nine different lifetimes.
SPEAKER_00:She's like, she's probably thinking, like, you know what? I deserve this. I have been through the fire.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. I can sit on the couch and paint my nails and make this apartment look gorgeous and make myself look gorgeous for this man who is taking care of me. I get it.
SPEAKER_00:I get it. I would have, I mean, I don't, I there's so many of her circumstances I cannot possibly really imagine. But when I'm trying to imagine it, I would have done the exact same thing, you know? So yeah.
SPEAKER_03:At 17?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, hell yeah. Even later, I would have been tired. Even later, I would have been probably more tired. Honestly, I would do it now. If I was if I had to do a year of being homeless, and then someone's like, Let me let me give you a Macy's credit card. Let me like let me take care of you.
SPEAKER_03:You don't have to go to school anymore. Especially where they don't accept you as you are, but I do. And here's a Macy's credit card. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.
SPEAKER_00:So soon Holly took the big step of meeting Jack's parents. Um I know.
SPEAKER_01:What? Jack!
SPEAKER_00:Yep. They weren't thrilled that they were living together out of wedlock, but meeting Holly made them fall in love. Holly credits her Yep. Holly credits her eyes and her charm as the thing that won them over.
SPEAKER_03:I was quite a charmer, darling. Still am. But let me give you a quick tip it's all in the eye makeup. I must admit, my eyes are my most captivating feature. Girl say. They could melt a heart of stone with one soft glance. And when it came to Jack's parents, that's just what they did.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. She's feeling herself. She's like, Yeah, your parents love me. I did my eye makeup for them.
SPEAKER_03:Literally, literally, this is me. Whenever I meet a significant other parents. This whole thing, like, so me. Like, I'm not worried about when parents meet me. Like, my ex's parents still call and text me. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you are wildly charming.
SPEAKER_03:When I want to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Fair. Um, so she saw his parents often for family dinners, and for a long time they never knew that Holly had once been Harold. But eventually it did come out.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god. Okay, here we go. One day, Jack was telling them how special I was. And then he told them how really special I was. Boy were they floored. But after a while, the smelling salts brought them around and they just accepted the fact and it was never mentioned again. Odd, but true. Whoa, are you kidding me? I know. Isn't that crazy? I'm like between her parents and Jack, then Jack's parents and Jack, like what the fuck? Yeah. No, it's really so sweet. Wait. I know.
SPEAKER_00:It's really, it's wild.
SPEAKER_03:I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm nervous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. So rightfully so. Um Holly used her Macy's credit card often and kept herself dressed to the nines. And her friend Candy Darling, who'd also recently begun living as a woman, borrowed her outfits often.
SPEAKER_03:As you do, as the girlies.
SPEAKER_00:Of course. So once at a home viewing party of the Barbara Streisand special color. That's like the most gay sentence I've ever read. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03:She would borrow my dresses and then also at a viewing party of the Barbara Streisand special, Color Me Barbara.
SPEAKER_00:Candy and Holly were introduced to another friend that would ride the superstar Warhol wave with them, Jackie Curtis. Curtis, as Holly always referred to him, often dressed as a woman, but had no interest in actually being a woman.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, interesting. Curtis, like Candy, longed for fame and glamour. Although Curtis's glamour was truly something I shall never forget, nor shall I hope to ever see again. Jackie Curtis walked around town in ratty house dresses, snagged nylons, and unruly hair, with her face painted up like a cartoon. But she thought she was glamorous.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I I I Jackie Curtis will see more of him, of her. Like there, I this is this is a confusing one with the pronouns. Um, but anyway, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So perhaps uh just a cross not just, but perhaps a cross dresser.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_03:My understanding. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think so. Yeah. It's we'll we'll dig into it more. I every the everyone's it's hard for me to wrap my mind around everyone's complicated identity during this complicated and closeted time um for most of society. So, but I'm trying.
SPEAKER_02:Um But what we do know, but what we do know is Holly thought he was ugly.
SPEAKER_00:Holly, there's this is not the first, this is not the first time that you're going to hear Hollywood lawn read Jackie Curtis for filth and just like absolutely stomp all over every choice that he she has made fashion-wise. Um so uh Holly had the least interest in fame out of the three of them, like Candy Darling, Jackie Curtis, and her, but eventually that would change. So they're already like talking about wanting to get in with Warhol this early on in their friendship. Like they have a plan. So yeah. Um at this point in time, Holly was just turning 18. And upon turning 18 in 1964, with Vietnam in full swing, she was summoned to the draft board. Oh shit. I know. Oh shit. Oh no, I know. So, in a panic of desperation, Holly called upon Libra to come over and make her a platinum blonde. Like, I don't know how that makes sense, but it did to them. And she sh, I think just to make a statement, um, she showed up to the draft board meeting wearing hot pants, sandals, and some tasteful blush.
SPEAKER_03:This is this is my kind of draft dodging, I have to say. Yes. I I must say I like it. I like this draft dodging a lot. A lot better than bone spurs. If you're gonna commit, commit. Yep. I was immediately escorted into the doctor's quarters while Libra waited outside and passed out his phone number. Libra's always work in the room. Get a Libra. When I entered the doctor's office, he peered at me over the top of his spectacles and said with concern Hmm, well, what do we have here? Service with a smile, honey. That is how I'm going to serve my country. Remove your clothes, please, he said, adjusting his stethoscope to his ears. Naturally, I complied and pulled off my tank top. When the doctor noticed my chest, he stopped me from removing anything else. I'm on hormones, I told him. Well, that'll be enough. Nurse, excuse this young man from duty. And it was done.
SPEAKER_01:Titties and scene.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Oh, okay. Not what we were looking for. Fantastic. Um, yeah, so that's I don't know that she needed to bleach her hair. I guess that was just enough to like be like, I don't have to wait in the line now. They're just gonna pull me into the room. I'm making enough of a a statement. Um, so with that little mishap out of the way, Holly went on living her housewife best life and going a little too crazy. She went a little too crazy with that Macy's credit card. That she's the the bored housewife was setting it. I mean, can you imagine 18 years old and you're already a bored housewife? Uh oh. Especially once she discovered designer wear. So that's what she really did. Oh my God. Yep. She never even looked at the price of anything. Couldn't just bought it.
SPEAKER_03:She's not bored of never got froze because she couldn't get a coat. And now she's oh my god, designer wear, never even looking at the never even looking at the price tags.
SPEAKER_00:No, well, that was that her, he Jack wasn't doing that well. She's that was a mistake. So when the bill arrived for thousands of dollars in the 60s. Then Jack told her that she needed to get a job. It's like if you're gonna spend this kind of money, you're gonna have to get a job. So at this point, Holly started combing through the help wanted ads and like fantasizing about herself, you know, like as a dog groomer, where it was always about the outfits that she could wear, like in whatever job, you know, ridiculous. And so she cycled through various jobs. A key punch operator, too boring, next. Filing clerk, way too boring, next. And between each of these jobs, she literally says she quote, went to lunch, threw back a cocktail, and never came back. Then she went to sex as a sales girl and eventually was hired as a department store model for ladies' fashions.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, this seems like way over a speed. Yes, yes, yes. I loved the women's fashions of the 60s. But no matter how much I accessorize with my big plastic chunky jewelry, no matter how glamorous the gown I wore, I couldn't get over the painful shame that lay hidden inside my panties. Yes, I had everything a woman of the day could desire a beautiful husband, a fabulous wardrobe, every electrical appliance imaginable, a Macy's charge card, and a glamorous career. What I didn't have was a muffin.
SPEAKER_02:It's supposed to be a muff. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_03:What an amazing typo. What I didn't have was a muff. And I'm not talking about the kind that keeps your hands warm either. And although I didn't dwell on the fact, it usually came to mind after I'd made my rounds and returned to the dressing room with the rest of the girls. They'd all be getting gussied up, smoking cigarettes and chewing the fat while I struggled to make my winky stay dinky, pulling it back and strangling it between my butt cheeks. What a pain in the ass!
SPEAKER_01:Tucking. It's tucking. Tucking. It's called tucking. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And it is a pain. It sounds like it, yeah. So eventually she tired of this too and moved on to another filing job. The way she's describing being tired of it is like it just basically like she had to go like model specifically for these like rich older ladies that were just kind of like poking and prodding at her. And she was like, ugh, I think it probably just made her like, don't touch me. Um understandably so. And this like filing job is not notable really, except for the fact that it was the first time Holly strayed in her relationship with Jack. And oddly enough, it was with a big busted lesbian named Carol. Wait, wait. What? I know.
SPEAKER_03:So as Holly puts it to us readers, if you're confused, imagine how I felt. I might have had some delusions before, but now I was really snapping. I was assuming the female role with Jack and the dominant lesbian role with Carol. My mind was in a whirl again, and having a penis wasn't helping any.
SPEAKER_00:But luckily, Jack had been saving up for Holly to get a full sex change. Or was it luckily? Holly was confused about having the operation as well.
SPEAKER_03:The time was getting closer and my nerve was getting weaker. I was plagued with second thoughts. What if they make a mistake? No operation is 100% foolproof. What if they goofed? What if I didn't look real? Or what if it didn't feel real? What if I came out looking like a freak? I even thought of Jack. What if he didn't want me anymore? Maybe he was a frustrated homosexual who couldn't make up his mind. What if I didn't want him after I got the operation? Day in, day out, these thoughts congested my mind, and to make matters worse, when I finally fell asleep after lying awake worrying, I was terrorized by nightmares. I can only imagine. Yeah. So it's a huge thing. It's a huge thing. Yeah. I've had I've had so many surgeries and nothing as big as this. A couple of them were pretty big. Nothing as big as completely altering your entire body and identity. And also I would lay awake at night with things that are. And just think about it.
SPEAKER_00:Like like today, you could you could look it, you could like go on the internet and look at people's stories. You can re you can read reviews of doctors. You can do all of these things to like do research to really comfort yourself and make sure it's like I'm making the right choice. You didn't really have any of those kinds of like luxuries at this time.
SPEAKER_03:Like I'm literally like, oh, he found Jack found the one doctor that does this. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's like, right. So it's right. And you just you don't know any of these things. Any of the questions she has, she's not gonna have answers for. So but she again thought of Jack. Even though the operation made her nervous, she thought it would bring them closer, as Holly says.
SPEAKER_03:Our relationship had become tainted with sexual frustration because Jack never wanted to touch my penis. And after all of the female hormone treatments, my testicles had shriveled and I couldn't have an orgasm. I couldn't even masturbate because I could barely achieve erections. And when I did, I'd work myself right up to the edge of climax, and then poof, nothing would happen. It was terrible. Oh my god, that's like being on antidepressants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. This sexual frustration led to Holly finding excitement and fooling around with other strange men, but still she was never satisfied. And for this section, I we're gonna get into like there's there's clearly some messiness that's uh that's cresting here. But um for this section, I want to end on one key and very modern realization that Holly had made around this time.
SPEAKER_03:When I was certain I was going to have the operation, I never once felt like a woman trapped in a man's body. I felt more like a man trapped in high heels. I was never miserable with my body, but for some strange reason I played up the notion that I wanted to have it cut off.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like that's a very important realization because it's like I don't I feel complete. I feel like I mean clearly like there's I don't know, I don't know how you solve what's going on with the hormones there. Like uh I'm sure we'll get into that more, but like I feel like the it's I don't know that needs to be addressed, right? But as far as like feeling comfortable in your own body and in your own skin and still and being like I am a woman, whatever, you know what I mean? Like that's perfectly valid. So it's like it, but I think at the time everything was so you either just like fully, fully passed or you didn't, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Everything was so binary.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I mean, I people are still trying to make it that way. So trying to make everything so binary, right, exactly. So, but anyway, I think nothing's changed.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing has changed, I know. But she are she does like articulate so many of the this whole all of these confusion, all this whole this whole episode is really like confusion, identity shifts, um, and you know, and the mistakes of youth, really. Um, and survival, all of those things. So, but I just feel like she describes all of it very well. Um, so it it's it's a it's a it's a treasure. If this book should not be out of print, somebody get it back out there, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh. Um, so much. That was such a that was such a juicy episode. I know.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot. There's a lot.
SPEAKER_01:And there's a lot more to come. So oh my gosh, is this gonna be a four-parter or a five?
SPEAKER_00:It's gotta be a f well. I don't know. We'll see. Hard set. We'll see. I'm writing it out. We'll see. It's definitely not all done. It's a lot. Until next time. Remember, you may not be famous, but you've got a story to tell. And you're not dead yet. That's right. We'll see you next time for Hollywood Lawn Part three. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. Your support and enthusiasm for the show are the reason we keep doing it. So thanks for the kind words. They really mean the world. If you liked the show or have ideas for episodes we could or should do, please drop us a comment in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and tell every Cinephile and Taphophile, fun fact that's a person who loves graveyards, about your new favorite niche podcast. And if you want to see transcripts, photos, and sources for our episodes, check out our Substack Dead and Kind of Famous. Dead and Kind of Famous is written, produced, and edited by Courtney Blomquist. It is hosted by Marissa Rivera and Courtney Blomquist. And special thanks to Jesse Russell, my husband, for allowing me to yammer on about the episodes before I can spill it all to Marissa. He tends to have some good insights and ideas, so thanks. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell and you're not dead yet.
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