Miss Donut, the Cemetery Heiress : Holly Woodlawn Part 3

A sex change budget blown and a cinematic breakup lead to upstate pig-slut shenanigans and a Miss Donut crown. Confused? You should be.

In this episode, Holly finds her last name, meets Warhol, and almost ruins her chance with him shortly there after. If you've been listening to parts 1 and 2, it's no surprise that this chapter is quite the wild ride on the wild side. And get ready - Holly is going to be our first 5 part episode!

Side note- apologies for the late episode posting. The holidays of it all, darling! Hope you had cheerful times and we're happy to get back to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

We're back. You missed us.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

You missed us.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

You missed us, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

This story that is gonna, you know, you were asking me before, like, is this gonna be four or five? I feel like it's probably gonna be five. Like after writing this, and I was like, man, it's probably gonna be five.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

I knew it. Hello and welcome to Dead and Kind of Famous, where we dig into the life stories of dead folks who enjoyed a touch or two of fame in their time.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

And now reside permanently in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

I'm Marissa Rivera, and I know nothing about what we're going to talk about imminently, but I do know that it is 8 p.m. and I'm drinking a Celsius, and I will regret it later. What is a Celsius?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Oh girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I it is it's it, it's an energy drink essentially, but it tastes good.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Oh I I recognize it now that I can see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know this logo.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

A hundred the tropical vibe one. And I'm Courtney Blomquist, and I know way too much about what we're gonna talk about, but I don't know something that you do know, Marissa.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

My culinary goops. I don't know a culinary goop when watching British bake off, um, and they're like a traditional mousseline and a Swiss meringue and a blah blah blah. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

I watched I don't know her custards from her ganaches.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I don't know. I know what ganaches. I do know that.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I don't know um, yeah, like these sorts of like regional buttercreams and um and meringues and she doesn't know her Swiss from her American.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I don't. I don't know like these variations on combining like egg whites, sugar, and butter or whatever. Like there's the I feel like that's kind of what it is, and I don't I don't know any of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

It's like guess which one has the most sugar. Take one wild guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

American?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Of course it's American!

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Well, that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

I'm like, yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, by far has the most amount of sugar, which is why a lot of like wedding cakes are made out of it's either fondant or American buttercream, because American buttercream it has so much sugar that it doesn't melt easily and it's like the most stable. But also for like the grossest tasting.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Right. Yep, yep, yep. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

But she didn't know that either. No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I mean, like, no, no, no, why would you?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

I'm to fish very much filled with the most random baking factors.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Maritha's a very good baker. I'm I'm gonna plug that right now for anybody who hasn't been watching her on uh the try guys and on uh specifically without a recipe and what what's the other one?

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Oh, phoning it in.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Phoning it in.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

There's also Escape the Kitchen, which is an escape you have to basically bake your way out of an escape room.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Oh my god. Couldn't be a more perfect show for you. Couldn't be a more perfect show for you at all. I have not seen that one.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Oh my god, I need to Courtney and I, fun fact. Courtney and I used to do escape rooms a lot to the point where we had a little team name called the escape goats. But that's enough about us. You're wild and quirky hosts. Yep, yep. Much much like the escape goats, Hollywoodlawn also had an amazing bunny name.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yes, and actually we're gonna get into that today too. Oh my god. Oh yeah, I like how I I got a there.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

You segued. You did that.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Segwayed the hell out of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

All right, so when we last left Holly, she was considering having a full sex change operation on her boyfriend Jack's dime.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

But as we learned last time, it may not have been as much of a desire for her as it was for Jack, who refused to even touch her down there in its current state.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

So And this is the kind of thing that you have to be 1000% sure on.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Oh, 100%. Absolutely. It's a major, a major decision, a major surgery, a major everything. Major, major, major, major, major. So um, she had moments of shame, of course, that the book mentions that we've talked about actually already, like come up when she was having to talk, especially in her modeling days. So you see like a little bit of that, like I don't connect with this genitalia, of course, but um maybe it was just the shame of being different and having a secret. All I'm saying is there are actually three different identity stories happening between Holly and her almost Warhol friends at this point, Candy Darling and Jackie Curtis. Um, and this is I've just been reading about all of the Warhol characters more and more. These are all like trailblazers for gender, for trans women, for everything.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Really like so yeah, that whole movement.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

That whole movement is very much like these three friends kind of encompass very different parts of that. Um, so Candy, for instance, was someone who wouldn't take a shower often out of fear of being caught with a penis. Like she like that was part of this book. Actually, Holly said Jack was like, she's weird, she doesn't take showers, and she was like when she stayed with them and stuff, and it was like, well, that's why, you know? Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

So safe enough.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Right. Um, and so she was deeply ashamed um of her quote manhood, as it were, though uh, though she never did end up going for a full medical transition, and it might have just been, I don't know enough about that story. It might have just been because she didn't have the the option, I don't know, but I bet she would have, honestly, um, if everything was perfect. Jackie Curtis, on the other hand, refused to be defined by gender labels at all. And many consider her yeah, many consider her him. It's it's honestly like the the pronouns with Jackie Curtis are all over the place in this book, so we'll just kind of use whatever, I guess, because she didn't really want to be defined by it anyway. He didn't want to be defined by it. Um, but they're one of the earliest examples out there of a non-binary person before there was a word for it. Um and people have spoken to that at this point in time. Now, Holly, on the other hand, was a woman, defined herself as a woman, but she was not ashamed, as ashamed anyway, of her male genitalia as Candy. She had grown into someone who was comfortable in her own skin, but now had the opportunity to have the operation. Many trans women coveted at the time.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

So And you know what? I applaud her so much to be that comfortable in your own skin at such a young age. Cause right now, what, she's 17, 18? I would say 18. 18, around around there, you know, cusping adulthood as it were. Yeah. But like being mentally, emotionally, psychologically comfortable with your body enough to know that I don't want to change something about it is huge.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Totally. Totally. And I don't think like I don't know if she's completely there. There's a lot of voices, there's a lot of chatter going on, there's a lot of people with their own journey that she's encountering, but I think that that's what she's grappling with. And there's nothing, there's nobody else to talk to who feels like that really. Like, I don't know. It's just I feel like she has to come like be comfortable with these feelings that are coming up that are not um, they're not the experience of a lot of people she's talking to, basically. Even though she's very connected with this community. I don't feel like there's other people who are maybe experiencing it in the same way entirely. So, anyway, so in 1966, Jack was ready with the transition money. Holly had met a new trans friend named Julie, who worked at Libra Salon, and the two traveled together to Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore so Holly could have her operation. Jack was not there because a supportive friend. Yes, so she has a supportive friend. Yeah, I didn't go into a lot of detail about Julie, but Julie was, you know, when Holly met her, she was uh going by Enrique. Um, she was she was very pretty in the face, always, even you know what I mean, when she was presenting as male and like basically just um they had a lot in common, I think. And so um bonded quickly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so this is a friend that came up quickly, but good, good, good bones to that relationship. A good Judy, a good Judy from the good exactly. So um, however, they you know, she's got her friend until she's ready. When Holly arrived at Johns Hopkins, she was told that she would have to wait a year to experience full womanhood in the medical sense.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Specifically, they told her I feel like a year feels fast, actually.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

I mean, yeah, specifically they told her she would need to quote, live and drag. And I don't know if that's what they actually said to her, but that's what she said. Live and drag for a year.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

When Holly explained that she had already been living as a woman for four years, the doctor said that may be the case, but we have to keep you under psychological analysis to prove that you can live with the change.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And now Carol Ryder is back, ladies and gentlemen. He has returned just for this episode. As the Johns Hopkins doctor.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

And if you don't know who that is, you better check out that episode.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, go back to uh the first episode of the season. There he is. So Holly was offended by this answer. The nerve.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I had been living as a woman for long enough. I deserved my own snatch, but they refused. And so, in my despair, I went on a mad shopping spree. And after I had blown the wad that Jack had slaved to save, wait, she took the operation money and immediately spent it on sho Oh immediately spent it on shopping. Oh no, girl. I know, I know. And after I had blown the wad that Jack had slaved to save, I thought that if I returned home pussyless and penniless, I'd soon be lifeless, for sure. So Julie and I took a cheap little apartment in Baltimore and hid there for a month.

Marker 01

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Eventually, I know. Like just such a turn. But this is kind of like what I'm saying. I feel like as things are showing up, if she's dealing with these feelings, like I don't know, that says something, right? Like I feel like to go and be like, oh, like I ha I can do this thing that like so many trans women do want. A lot of them do want.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

And I'm like gonna just but it sounds like she was actually about to do it, and then because they're like you have to wait.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah, she just I think so, but like I mean, like do you think she would have gone through with it then? I think she would have gone through with it, but like I I do, but I feel like I think that what I'm hearing from earlier is like in her heart of hearts that this might have been for Jack more than it was for her. Do you know what I mean? And I think she's just not sure. I just don't think she's like f fully sure. She might have wanted to. I don't really know, but like to me that says something that you're like, yeah, well, fuck you. I'm just gonna go and blow all this money that like I I have in my pocket and I could wait just one more year and I could do that. And a lot of people would. You know what I mean? Can't be trusted with a Macy's card, cannot be trusted with a card. I know. This is a big scat. This is a this is not a money, is not her uh strong suit at all. So um so eventually after this little hideout, she called Jack, confessed everything, and moved back in with him. But this definitely put the relationship on the rocks for sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah, I could see that.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yep, yeah, that would make sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah, yep, makes sense, makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Um mostly just because it's like, oh, I thought you wanted this, and I worked my ass off to give me the mic for this. I'd be I'd be how would you feel? I mean, I'd be pissed. I'd be pissed because it's like you could you you didn't call me, you didn't tell me what was going on, you didn't say anything, you didn't even confide in me about this. Like, I'd be so pissed. She's the judgment, there's you know, Holly. I don't know if y'all have realized this yet, but Holly is definitely not a perfect person and she fucks up a lot. Um, and I'll just say that. Yeah, but don't we all, you know, but like it's she does fuck up a lot for sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Um so the relationship is on the rocks.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yep. But on the bright side, Holly was free of operation anxiety, at least for the time being. She could push that aside. I don't have to like hem and haw about it for a minute. The money's not there. She had blown it. Um, so she had no other option but to seek stardom, just as she was, because that's you know, there's no other, no other option.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

There's no other option. That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

So Jackie Curtis had written a play called Glamour, Glory, and Gold, and its first run had been a relative success. Not gonna be fun. Sounds fun. Yeah. So Candy, who had just finished starring in a show called Give My Regards to Off Off Broadway, but written by the same writer as Dream Girls, Tom Ion. I know it was like legit.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Um, and because of that, uh because of that show's glowing reviews, she was cast in the starring role of the second run of Jackie's Glamour, glory, and gold. And originally, yeah, like and so that's great, and like connects them again. Originally, that part had been played by like a a cis woman. So it was kind of like a cool flip, and obviously something Jackie would have been all about, but that's just you know, yeah. So gender bend, a cool 100%. Um what's what's the play?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

What's the play?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

It's called um O'Mary. The play her play is called Glamour, Glory, and Gold.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yeah, very, very, very O'Mary of her. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Holly was given a featured role as a show girl, and all of the male parts in the show were played by just one male actor. And that actor, just one. Just one. And that and that actor was a young talent by the name of Robert De Niro. Robert De Niro?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Robert De Niro.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Robert De Niro. Okay, here's where the forest gumping starts. Okay, yes. So I mean, that's random, but what?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

This is like pre-fame Robert De Niro in this play. So um, in Holly's scene with him, he played a producer that she was auditioning for who felt her up. In her words.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

It was a ball. She had a great time being felt up by Robert De Niro.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

She had a great time, yeah. Um, and I guess like side note on that, his parents, I guess, or his mom maybe owned a print shop. And so they were like doing all the printout, like posters and stuff for this play. Like that was like his contribution. This is like super grassroots, you know what I mean? And he's like the it, I don't know, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Making art, just making art, yeah, and doing it together. And everybody's actors studio Robert De Niro. And his parents.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, his parents. And his parents. Um, but Jackie and Candy were upset that their names weren't big enough on the poster. So they left the show. And in solidarity, Holly did the same. So that was the end of that.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

You know what? Know your know your worth, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

I get yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

There's there is that, but Holly, I I think Holly likes to leave. She does. She's not she loves a dramatic exit.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And she gets uh, you know, I think she gets she gets bored. She gets bored. Um I understand. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

So meanwhile, her new friend Julie had moved upstate to seek her fame and fortune as the star slut of Syracuse.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

The slut. The one and only. So she had recently had top surgery and was earning back the money she spent on that rapidly in her new position. Um good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Good for you, girl. Get that coin.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yep. Yep. She's like, I got them, and now I'm gonna shake them to pay for it.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Right. Really good ROI.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Holly went up to visit her on weekends and decided to fully move there when she learned that Jack had begun seeing a cis woman on the side.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Um, which, you know, she had been cheating with really random people.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I'm I know, and also, yeah, like there is you can't, I can't really blame him in this moment, you know. No, yeah, can't. I can't. I'm surprised she got to move back in, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

Like so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Anyway, yeah, um, yes, so he did that. She got a job as a dancer, like Julie, and immediately had men falling all over her. Of course. Of course, yep.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

We love a dancer, we love a dancer, so love movement, flexibility, grace.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yep, yep. Just shaking her. And she got she, you know, she went out, she bought a cheap outfit, she did her whole thing, and she was like, Yeah, and just started and reinvented herself once again and and really liked this version in a lot of ways. So, because it was like, you know, this is like a party job. This is like a party year's job, um, if you want it to be.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

So she's 19, 20, 21. Yeah, yeah. This is the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah. So one of these guys was a goofy guy named Virgil, whose family owned a pig farm. Um Virgil with the pig farm. Virgil, Virgil with his hogs. I love the name Virgil, by the way. What a fun name. It is. It's fun. Virgil. He was always bringing Holly candy and flowers and eventually invited her to the farm for a visit with Julie. So upon arriving to the house and meeting his overly enthusiastic mother, Holly introduced that cheap pig slut friend of mine, Julie, and hightailed it into the kitchen. For a home cooked country buffet. I love that she's so quick to be like, my friend's a pig slut. She just like is read people all the time. Um so she soon realized to her shock that Virgil intended to ask for her hand in marriage.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

I just wanted a role in the hay, not a walk to the altar. Besides, this kid hadn't the slightest idea about the devastating truth behind my womanhood. And devastating it would have been, since this was one very strict Christian family. To think they had the nerve to imagine I was a virgin.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

So nerve. So the weekend ended with Julie drunkenly bringing home a random man getting up to no good in her bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Wait, wait, wait, to these people's farm. Oh my god. To the farmhouse. To the farmhouse that she was visiting. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

She's visiting because of her friend. Um, so and then she was caught in the sheets by Virgil's very Christian mother.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So she and Holly were tossed out with his mother screaming, heathens, harlots, and whores at their backs as they made her run for it.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

I'd be so pissed if I was visiting a farm with you, Courtney, and you and I flooded it up. And you flooded it up and brought a drunk rando home, and I'm fleeing in the night in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Like, where do you even find someone? You're in a farmhouse. Like, where are you finding these people? What did you do to just like go like into a pub? Like it's like a hick, it's if it's a farm town, it's like a hick bar. But I guess that's what they're working in. They're like used to that. Like those those places are scary. Like hick bars, like in the middle of nowhere, are scary. Like and yet. And yet she found someone. She did it.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

She sure did. I'd be so pissed if you did that to me. Oh my god. And vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Now we know why Holly was calling her a pig slut from this talk.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

She's a pig slut. Yeah, she was found a way to be a slut on a pig far. During this weird upstate chapter, Holly also took a go-go gig in a town called Amsterdam, where she had a fling with a man. Amsterdam, New York? Yes. Okay. So she had a fling with a man.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Shout out, shout out if you're from Amsterdam.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Shout out to Amsterdam, New York. Shout out to Amsterdam, New York. I'm going to be checking those locations and seeing if anyone so uh she had a fling with a man whose father owned a donut factory and needed a Miss Donut to ride in the local homecoming parade.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So what a specific job that Miss Holly was uniquely qualified to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

And honestly, the only reason I'm even including this is because I feel like there are many times where she was like, like, you know, kind of half jokingly, but being like, who do they think they're talking to? I'm Miss Donut of Amsterdam, you know, like Amsterdam, New York. It's like part of her, it's like like Mother of Dragons title. Yes, yes, yes. So Holly sat in a convertible with a sash reading Miss Donut 1968 and a tiara on her head in exchange for a year's supply of free donuts. Worth it.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I would do that.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

I would do that in a second.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

It depends on the donut, but yeah. Donut friends. If it was donut friend, I would 100% do that. I know you would. I mean, I would absolutely that's like, yeah, for anybody living in Los Angeles, donut friend is oh, so delicious, such a treasure. It is my love language. I would accept it for any occasion, really. Um, and I wanted it to be my wedding cake, but my mother was not into that and made a big enough thing that I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

So and so, next best thing, I don't know if you if I've told this story, but Courtney gave me donuts for my divorce. She's like, sorry, you're going through a divorce. I brought you donuts. And I said, Are these divorce donuts? And she said, Mm-hmm, sure are. Yep. And then helped me eat them. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Oh, yeah. Well, that's yep, yeah. It's a win-win for me. That's why you get donuts. I know. So I can share shamelessly. Yes. After a rumor kicked up around town that uh Holly and Julie were prostitutes, they fled town and landed. And they weren't. They were not. Um, they fled town. Just slutty. They were just slutty. But like this is the oh yeah, I should have included this. I'm gonna include it now. So they the rumor they according to Holly was because she had all of these free donuts. And so they were like, Yes, we wanted men to come over, and yes, whatever. But that was how we got them to come over, was like just telling them that we had all these free donuts, and we did, and so like there were always guys over having our donuts and probably you know more of their God-given donuts as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Having some donuts, some donut holes. Yeah, so looking up that frosting, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Um that Boston cream. I hate myself. I'm gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah, okay, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Okay, moving on. Okay. Okay. So many people just stopped listening. Anyway, that happened. They were the rumor that they were prostitutes and they fled town because of it and landed go go jobs in Albany, New York. They were just like, oh yeah, I'm not a whore. I'm not a whore that's in the you know traditional sense. So I was one currently. I was one. I'm not anymore. I get paid a different way now. And she was a bad prostitute. She was a bad prostitute, it's true. Terrible. Um, didn't even always take the money. Awful. So they fled, they landed go-go jobs in Albany, New York. While they were there, Holly had too many drinks one night and found herself in a hotel room with a local man. And when she came clean about the status of her genitalia, which she would have to do if they're doing anything right, the guy was taken aback, but still kissed and pawed at her and promised to keep her secret. But he didn't. And after dancing once more with a bunch of upstate angry eyes glaring at her, she and Julie fled town once more and headed back to New York City.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

So it's yeah, I feel like it's interesting to out someone like that because then you're also outing yourself.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think that the story that he probably told was like, I like I was I like was like, what the trick was no, yeah, it was tricked exactly. Like I feel like that's probably what it was. It's like I didn't do anything. Like it's like this shame, like, oh, I did kiss this person that I knew had male genitalia, and now I feel feelings about that, and now I'm gonna go try to you know cover it up with this weird lie and and being shitty and exposing her. Um, so uh they headed back to New York City, and naturally Holly called Jack to say she was tired of living upstate and was coming home. Also, she needed somewhere to stay.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

So I was gonna say, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah. Yeah. So he said okay, but he would be out of town in Mexico. But Holly agreed to watch his apartment. Of course she did. She had nowhere else to go. So she got a job at a dress shop and picked up life where she'd left it, it would seem. And instead of looking after Jack's place, she flew wild pill popping parties and made a big mess.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Like a kid who gets left by their parents for the first time. Yeah. And gets the house or apartment to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah. So she was going to clean it up, but then she found she was thinking about it. But then she found a love letter. Yeah. Yeah. She found a love letter and realized that Jack hadn't just had a fling, he was in love with another woman. So this is where it was. She was like, oh, so offended because of course she'd messed around. She'd done this, that, whatever. But it's like, well, I didn't find it.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Right. How no letters were written. How dare you give your heart to another?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

She is pissed. So Holly left the place a ruck and confronted Jack when he walked in the door. And this is the moment where Jack finally kicked her out and threw all of her clothes out the window onto the front lawn. Like dramatically kicked her out.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Dramatic cinematically kicked her out. Exactly. We can we can all picture it.

unknown 31:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Exactly. Flying through the air. Yep. Yeah, like that. That scene where you're like.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

That only happens. Exactly. That only happens in movies. But it's happening to Holly right now. So just like that, Holly was once again homeless without any options. And she couldn't seem to get a little help from any friends in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

She and Libra had lost touch, and Candy was doing an off broad waist dint with Miss Curtis and was too consumed by her own glamour to be bothered by my beggary.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

So Holly found herself spending nights in Bryant Park once again. And she says in the book, I know. And she says in the book that she was eating grubs in Bryant Park. And I don't know if that's like just a it's like really though? Or was that just you saying that to be dramatic? I don't like it either way. No, I don't like it either way.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

She was hungry. She was hungry.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

She was hungry. Right. So she doesn't even at this after this point, she doesn't even mention her dress shop job again. So I'm assuming that that fell away during this time as well. Um, either way, the situation wasn't good. But Holly started spending time at the Stonewall, which you may have heard of, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

And she's Stonewall.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

The Stonewall. And she befriended some queens there who piled into a small room in a rooming house together of Stonewall, and this period in time, she says The place attracted an eclectic bunch.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Butch guys, preppy boys, older men, a few lesbians, and a few so-called straight men sprinkled in between. Well At least their wives and kids thought they were straight. Anyway. It was these straight patrons that attracted me. I wasn't interested in gay men because I thought I was a woman and I wanted to be treated accordingly, unlike some of the other girls who could put on pants and become a man. I was a woman, regardless of what I was wearing. Also, there are different degrees of transvestism. Right? Is that how you say it? Transvestism? I guess so. Okay. That is what I am going with. There are some men who are very straight and only have sex with women, but get excited over wearing panties and a dress. Then there are those men such as myself who want to live as women and go to the extreme of shooting hormones and undergoing electrolysis treatments so they can look real. Looking real was very important in my mind because if there was any question that I was a man in drag, I could be arrested and worse yet, I could be killed by homo hating hoodlumps. It was It was during this period of the mid-60s. Another typo. Okay. It was during this period of the mid-60s when all the girls in the girls in quotation marks, okay, for those listening. When all those girls in the West Village were starting to come out of their closets or their dressing rooms, as I like to say. So I felt right at home. So she found her people.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, and I think it also just speaks to the period of time, like that. So um, what I was gonna say though, because we're talking about typos, is that so speaking of typos, okay? Hilariously last time Marissa was saying, I was making fun of you saying, I'm sure that's not how it's actually pronounced, and you were saying escaroles. Escaroles. Escaroles, as a one of the drugs that Holly was taking when hanging out with Libra. An additional image. I misspelled it. It was it's Escatrols, is what the what she said.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Um no, no, no, excuse me. It's Escatroles.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

It stupid. Okay, so this was like a a weight loss drug, um, but it was withdrawn.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Like fenfen or that that an upper essentially.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Uh yeah, exactly. It's like a f a speed-related diet drug. Um, and but escaroles are a leafy green vegetable. So we were like, Holly just ask.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

It's like she ate her greens. She ate her greens.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

She ate her bougie greens that are probably only found in a restaurant. Cause who bought who buys that? So I screwed that up. Um, but that's so funny. But yeah, multiple times. Yes, yes. But we just we just stuck on it because I was like, I don't know what any of these drugs are, and I still don't, kind of, but that you know, they're all they're they're gone, they're done. So just wanted to clear that up.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Okay, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

You're welcome. So in this rooming house that Holly's living in now with her with her stonewall friends, um, Holly read Vogue and she daydreamed about being a star to get her through the hard times.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

As she puts it, I'm not just referring to when I was broke and in the gutter, but the times when I wondered about where I was heading or who I was and whether I should have gotten a sex change. I don't know. And I didn't want to think about it. So I kept dreaming and hoping one day I would know the answers.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah. So the identity crisis continues, you know, but she's she's dreaming to get out of it. So in the same rooming house, down the hall from her was Liz Eden, a trans sex worker who had a regular John named Sonny, a seemingly straight man with a wife and kids. Holly knew about Sonny because every time he came to call, Liz would get very excited and scream down the hall Sonny's coming!

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Sonny's coming and he's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

So of course everyone had to look, right? I would right, of course. You can't not after that. So eventually Sonny fell in love with Liz and said he'd do anything for her. Naturally, she told him that she wanted a sex change.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

So Sonny robbed a bank to get her one. Boy, was he a fool for love. The story made headlines and became the inspiration for the film.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Dog day afternoon. Can you believe that? Isn't that insane? Yes, I can't believe it because it's Holly.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

It's just like she just happens to be around like these super big like moments of I don't know. It's crazy. That's love, baby. Yep, yep. Did you see Dog Day Afternoon?

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

I saw it recently. It's very good. But now that you know this, I feel like you can see it.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Or just randomly you'd seen it.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

I think maybe I did see it recently. Like, I think I was when I first started reading this book, like when I first picked it up. I think I did. But I I mean, yeah, because I think I was aware um when I saw it. But yeah, it's crazy. So through her nightly hangs at the Stonewall, Holly met a couple named Peter and George. They were speed fiends and pill poppers. Wait, time out.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Of course their names were Peter and George. Please continue.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

They were speed fiends and pill poppers. Hoppers, so naturally Holly hit it off with them just fine. And they all moved in together. Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. It was through George that Holly first got acquainted with the Warhol factory scene.

unknown 40:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

He had been. Yep, so it begins. It begins.

unknown 40:18

It begins.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

He had been an early factory member who was often referred to as Silver George for his habit of foiling rooms in silver.

unknown 40:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Maybe there's more to it, but that's all we know. Okay. He had a thing. It was an aesthetic. He had a name. It just got out of control.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yep. He told Holly stories about how everyone at the factory pitched in to help Andy make um silk screens and even signed his name for him at times. And hearing this makes me hear like exploitation a little bit. Um working for free. Yeah. So, but Holly was still fascinated and wanted to be part of the insanity, as she put it.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

So I mean I mean, I feel like I wouldn't have minded learning how to do.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah, it's beyond it's it's this is like a thing. I don't know for anybody who doesn't know about Andy Warhol, like um he was this like very uh he did kind he did exploit people. I mean, he really did. Like it was like, but he all they also wouldn't have been famous without him. They wouldn't have, you know what I mean? Because he was he was trying to like even by having these films that um that these people, you know, that like uh Candy and and Jackie knew about and everything and like knew that they could be a Warhol superstar. The idea of being a Warhol superstar in general, of being this kind of like um not classic at all Hollywood star.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Yeah, and I was gonna say that like was the only, I feel like the only avenue at the time for queer talent.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

100%. So there's it's like there's it's this trailblazing thing, but as far as like the pay lining up with that or compensation being there, like in a way that was appropriate. And and even when it came to his artwork, especially behind the scenes, it's just like doesn't add up. And I think a lot of people got pissed about it.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

SCSI, yeah, it's SCSI.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yep. And it was at best yeah, and at and also around this time, I didn't even really put this in here because it's definitely like before Holly was even acquainted with Andy, but like he got he that this is when the assassination attempt happened on him.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

So like there was a I don't I gotta be honest, I don't know a lot about Andy Warhol.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Yeah, so there's a there's uh an ex-factory member named Valerie Solanus, and she got like pissed and you know about all this kind of shit and um and then tried tried to shoot him and did shoot him and like she tried oh okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

She didn't put a hit out on him, she tried, she like snapped.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, just like went in there raving and ranting and da-da-da. So like um, so he shot him.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Did he like did she hit him? Like, was it close?

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Like he was in the hospital. Oh so so then he this is kind of when he starts like delegating more to other people and like pulling back even more and being like this shadowy figure a little bit, but he was still having parties, he was still doing his thing, but like uh was more cautious, I would say. So it's like a different chapter than it was in the beginning of of the Warhol stuff. And we obviously didn't get into the full Warhol scene, but it is fascinating, and there's uh a lot of characters and a lot of like tragedies around those characters. I mean, these are just like people who were not accepted anywhere else really but the factory and like the art they were putting out, but he basically elevated the careers of so many of these, or just like the just I don't know, he elevated uh the idea that these people were there, right? Right. That these are people in our society, that they are there.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Like stories deserve to be told and they deserve to be shown, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:17

So it's there's it's there's shadiness around it, but like the I it still is important, you know? So it's it's a it's a tough thing, it's complicated, yeah. So um George thought Holly just had to meet Andy. Okay, plus Silver George, Silver George, okay girl, you gotta meet Andy, you gotta meet Andy, plus Candy and Jackie were already in the scene starring in the latest film by factory cohort Paul Morrissey, who did a lot of it the these films um called Flesh, which was just about to be released. Yeah. So um Flesh. Flesh. But did either of them invite Holly to the premiere? No. George had called Andy to arrange an introduction with Holly, and he is the one who invited the two of them to the premiere of this.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Holly said our friendships were up and down so many times it was like riding a carousel. Sometimes we loaded one another and sometimes we loaded. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Yes. We loaded one another.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

I thought it was like like loaded each other up with drugs, but no. Loathed. The context clues told me sometimes we loathed one another, and sometimes we loved one another. We shared laughs, tears, makeup, and drugs. But when it came to sharing the spotlight, it was every broad for herself. That's I hate that feeling of industry friends that are only your friends.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Opportunistic.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Yes, when it's yes, when it's opportunistic for them to be friends with you and leave you. I don't have many, I don't really have friends like this, but uh yeah. The the people who get jealous of the phone. I feel like you have had friends like this. Yeah. Well, I I've forgotten who they are and uh they no longer exist in my life, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

No, I mean like I think, yeah, I think you've axed people out for a bit of this reason, is all I'm saying. Um, okay. So, but with that ethos, Holly didn't hide the fact that she thought that flesh was garbage. Zero percents. Yeah. It was all about a young stud, Joe Delessandro, and all of the people played by Robert didn't. No, I'm kidding. No, no, Joe Del Sandro was just that actually was the actor's name. And I think yeah, sometimes he just played cancel. But um, and all the people, Joe Delasandro Joe Delessandro, and all of the people who were after his body. So that's what the movie was about, pretty much. Okay. So Holly thought it was a dull piece of shit, but enjoyed Candy and Jackie's performances well enough. So that's a good that's a good friend that to be like F you, but actually I kind of like doing that movie.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

You know what? So I've been in plenty of absolute shit projects, but I've turned out a performance, okay? It's your job, you gotta do it. It's yeah, it's your job. Sometimes the material ain't there, but you gotta put forth your best effort. Yes. So she was like hated the movie, but you girls did good.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and also, like she says here too, like this was the first time. I guess like Jackie wasn't wearing, you know, dressing as a woman all the time at this point. Like, so most of the time when Holly saw her, she was not dressed as a woman. And so, like, this was one of the first times she saw her in like full drag where she like really tried. And she was like, she was she was she looked fine.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

It was like but it Holly's like clearly like, I'm the pretty friend.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yeah, you know, yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

So she saw how everyone fawned over Candy and Jackie at the party at this warhol party, and how in the coming days and weeks both received mainstream attention and were fawned over by celebrities and artists. And Holly definitely wanted a piece of that pie. She was getting hungry, girl. Yes. So as this craving for pie was coming over her, George pulled her through the crowd towards the blinding white head of Andy Warhol. Upon introducing her, Andy replied, Oh, you're so glamorous.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

You should be in one of our movies. Do you have a last name? And Holly said, Uh no, but I'll have one the next time you see me. Yes. What do you want, Andy?

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, I'll give it to you. Yep. And so Holly left the factory with some homework. So a few nights later, when she was uh at home taking speed like you do with George and Peter and watching I Love Lucy reruns.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Honestly, sounds like a great night. Yeah. I mean, speed is not my speed, but like, you know, something else. And watching I Love Lucy reruns. Oh sure. Yep. What a night.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yep. So the episode where Lucy uh has a loving cup stuck on her head on the subway comes up. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Perfect. And in the subway background was the word Woodlawn. And Peter jumped up saying, That's it.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

The Woodlawn Cemetery. Holly, you can be the heiress to all that land. And who's gonna contest? They're all dead.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Cause this is a the what it's what it's the train to the Bronx. It's the last stop on the train, is the Woodlawn Cemetery. So that's why the word's showing up, right? So and so this speed feed logic resulted in Holly's newfound last name, and it felt like home to her. As Holly says.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yes, I could be the heiress to the Woodlawn Cemetery. Darling, with all that marble, I could build a palace and use the crypts as powder rooms. But most importantly, I could be Hollywood's namesake. Finally, I had a name and I could give it to Andy.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

We have it holly! It happened!

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yay! It was 1969 and Hollywood Lawn had officially emerged. Welcome to the world! Welcome to the stage, Miss Hollywood Lawn. Exactly. So 1969. It was also when on a nightly outing to Stonewall on the evening of Judy Garland's death that Holly found herself in the middle of the Stonewall riots. And who called her over to give her the deets? None other than Miss Marsha P. Johnson herself.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Stop it. Stop it.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Stop it. One of the most notable Stonewall participants who made history that night standing up for LGBTQ writes.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Holly describes her as the Hedda Hopper of Christopher Street, who always had juicy gossip to tell.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

And for those of you who don't know, Hedda Hopper was like a gossip columnist from the old Hollywood days. So yeah, like the like the columnist from to to begin the columnist's profession.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

The TMZ.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Yeah, the yeah, exactly. TMZ with tits. Yeah, she had the power of the pen and a quick quit. Um so and because she can't hold back from reading Another Queen, Holly also says.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Her skirt was tied in the back where the zipper had been ripped. Her blouse was tied into a halter, and she always wore house slippers with her stockings, which were rolled down around her shins.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

So she's like, She looked crazy.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Is she talking Marcia P. Johnson? She's like, she's like, she looked a mess.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Yes, so funny. That's what she's saying. Yeah. So hilarious. She gave so so Marsha gave Holly the scoop on how the cops were being held hostage by the Queens and offered her a drink of a cheap liquor she referred to as the pride of cucumonga. And then she wandered back into the crowd, you know, yelling and and also trying to find people to pass the word to.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

As Holly says, the stonewall riots became a milestone for the gay community, not only because it was the biggest gay riot in history, but because it was the first time Miss Marsha got on TV. Darling, she made the six o'clock news, and she appeared so worldly for a girl of the gutter. Even her wig was on straight. I'm surprised they didn't erect the statue of Miss Marsha on top of Sheridan's shoulders, waving a pint of cucamonga in honor of her carrying zon.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

So even with the stone wall riots happening, everything, these very tumultuous times, Holly was able to find a place in underground theater and start using her new full name. Hooray. So exciting. Hooray, Holly. Yes. She joined a group called The Playhouse of the Ridiculous and performed in a play written by her own Jackie Curtis called Heaven Grand in Amber Orbit, which was about that sound that is so underground New York theater.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

Yeah, it's just it's like a pretentious. Oh my god. Heaven Grand in Amber Orbit. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Christ. Right. And so it was about uh, especially once you know what it's about. It's about like a circus sideshow freaks, like okay, Heaven Grand and Amber Orbit. This title gives me none of that. Um but anyway, Holly now felt like she was a real actress because she was acting, and she became closer friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She became closer friends with Jackie than she was before, too, because she's like working with her more. Um, and she sometimes accompanied her to the factory when Jackie needed to hit up Andy for money, because that's how that worked, by the way. It's like, oh, you didn't pay me enough, but I'm like one of your stars, so I'm just gonna like show up and ask you for money, or like leave a tab at a restaurant like with your name signed. Like that's like how people got paid enough to like get by. So it's got to be.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

Yeah, if you learn how to do his signature, that's how you do it.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Well, no, I mean it's like he knew about it's like, oh yeah, whatever. Like he would be like, they would ask because it's like I knew who he was, but it's you know, yeah, I wouldn't, I'd be like, Oh, I'm working for free.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

You haven't been probably going out to this dinner and signing your name.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, Holly starts, you know, frequenting the factory more because she's like by association at this point. So there at the factory, she Yes, she met a kid named Jeff who was becoming disgruntled about the whole factory scene for all the reasons we've discussed, right? Because he spotted the exploitation of it all and he wasn't wrong, right? But a couple days after she met him, Holly ran into him and he asked her if she wanted to come with him to pick up a camera. Holly went along without realizing what was going on. She's like, sure, yeah, whatever. I'm down for anything.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

Sure. An errand? Fine.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Yeah, whatever. Sure. My new friend, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

The next thing I know, he's charging a $2,000 camera to Warhol and telling the clerks that I'm Viva. The store clerk looked at us and said that he would have to verify the charge to Andy's account.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Then Jeff bolted out and Holly bolted after him because she didn't know what else to do.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Oh my god. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

I know. So by the way, Viva is another Warhol star. Like, but he just like pulled her into a lie real fast and then she's like and left.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Oh my god, she became an accessory. Yes. Whoop.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

So she I'm an accessory to theft. It's $2,000 at that time.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Yeah. So I mean, it didn't go through when they're they, of course, told him about it. Like, you know, so shortly after this incident, Heaven Grand and Amber Orbit opened, and an underground writer named John Hayes did a feature article on Holly. She didn't want to sound like a nobody, so she lied and said that she was, in fact, a Warhol superstar. And this is like, this is like a piece with like full center folds and like, you know what I mean? Like not center fold, but like full pictures and like everything. Like, you know who she is. She's just like, yes, this is me, a Warhol superstar. There's no no hiding. Just out there.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Okay. $2,000 in 1969 is $17,655 today.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Damn. So that would be like getting like a like a what is it called? Like a red cam or whatever. Like a like something really.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

I don't know how much those costs, but I don't know. I I am I am not pre- I probably not even that much, though, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

That's a lot. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

That's a lot. That's a sedan. That's a that's a car. Yeah. That's a car. That's a that's a nicely used hatchback, you know?

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Nicely used hatchback. Nicely used. Nicely. Nicely used. Yeah, yeah. Um, so all of this happened after Andy Warhol's assassination attempt, as I mentioned. Um so with these two back-to-back sketchy incidents, and he had guessed correctly, by the way, that Holly was the one involved in the camera stunt. Because he knew who she was. Um he wanted nothing to do with her. Like it in his eyes, she'd kind of blown it. Like he's like, Oh yeah, this person is crazy. Like, no. Um, but Paul Morrissey was the guy making all the movies, right? Right. He was the one that made Flesh and everything. So he was a factory member, director of all these films, including Fr Flesh, with Holly's two friends, and he was actually intrigued because she was like, Who is this crazy bride?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Yeah, like the no.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Yeah, he's like the nerve of this person who attempted to rob Andy and then claim to be a part of his factory. He had a hunch that Prince. Yeah. He had a hunch that Holly was just who he needed for his next picture. And that is where we will leave you until next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Just when things are starting to get juicy and revved up. What?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

No. Oh my god. So she so Holly inadvertently becomes an accessory to stealing a nicely used hatch hatchback. Right. And are they lying? Of the equivalent of. Then lies to the press about being a factory girl. Andy's like, no, thank you. Get out of here. I want nothing to do with that. Yeah, like I don't need any more psycho bitches in my life. Somebody just had enough going on in my life. And then Paul Morrissey's like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

Yes. No, so you'll have to you'll have to see what happens next time. But yes, this is like opening the the chapter is is opening. The stardom.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Oh so yes, her moment is arriving, um, which is exciting. So I'm so excited to learn more.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Oh, I'm so excited. Yes. So next time we record, next time I get to learn more about Holly, we'll be recording together.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

That's right. Oh my god, that's right. I'm coming for a visit. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Um also uh I just want to throw this out here now. Like, okay, so there's a book that just came out this last year that just came on my radar. Um, because this book that we've been using is it's written by Holly, but also um it's Hollywoodlawn with Jeff Copeland. And so Jeff Copeland was like um somebody that she met at the time. Like Holly probably never would have gotten it together to write a book without him. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do know what you mean. Yep. And so I think I also suspect the same. Yes, yes, yes. So he knew her well and like has come, you know, come out with his own book about knowing her and and everything, and like uh pretty recently.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

Recently, so okay, yeah, cool, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

So I haven't read it, um, but I feel like I don't know, maybe we can do something with that later because I do feel like it's I I read some articles about it, but I didn't read the book. And maybe we can do like some sort of like book club with you guys or something, like fans.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Oh, that'll be fun. Yeah, because I don't know if you guys are interested in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Yeah, yeah. That could be kind of fun. Um, but it's it's called it's called Love You Madly, Hollywood Lawn, A Walk on the Wild Side with Andy Warhol's Most Fabulous Superstar by Jeff Copeland. That's a long title. So I gotta I gotta be honest, that's a long title. But makes her sound really cool. The way that it's like laid out on the cover um threw me off and I missed part of it the first time I tried to say it. So anyway. It's just strange, strange font and um arrangement choices. But anyway, um, so yeah, but that's something that exists, and I just wanted to say that because I don't know, he has his own take on things, I think, just from reading articles um about it. So fun, fun, yeah, yeah. There's more info out there is what I'm trying to tell you. And I I don't have all of it. But somebody But if you guys are interested in like a little book club about these, you know Yeah, like because also somebody told me like somebody reached out. Um, another uh fan reached out with um or listener, I should say. Another listener reached out with a new book written about Christopher Jones as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Oh so Oh, I want to read that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Yeah, because like there really wasn't like a book written about him before, which is why I had to piece together his story from like his ex-wife's, you know, yeah, his ex-wife's um memoir and like a bunch of other things. Articles, yeah, yeah, and articles and stuff. So, but now there's a book, so that would also be interesting to read. But like, yeah, so I don't know. Like, by the way, yeah, and if anybody's reading this stuff first, like reach out, let me know. Tell me all your stuff. Like, I'm definitely not. I mean, I'm a wealth of knowledge, look, but like I don't have all the money. I don't have all that doesn't have all the answers, the cheese, whatever these slang for cash. I don't know, man. I it's getting late. Isn't cheese like a word for money? Yeah. Cheddar. The cheese, the cheddar. That's the word. Thank you so much for listening. Your support and enthusiasm for the show are the reason we keep doing it. So thanks for the kind words. They really mean the world. If you liked the show or have ideas for episodes we could or should do, please drop us a comment in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and tell every Cinephile and Tafophile, fun fact that's a person who loves graveyards, about your new favorite niche podcast. And if you want to see transcripts, photos, and sources for our episodes, check out our Substack Dead and Kind of Famous. Dead and Kind of Famous is written, produced, and edited by Courtney Blomquist. It is hosted by Marissa Rivera and Courtney Blomquist. And special thanks to Jesse Russell, my husband, for allowing me to yammer on about the episodes before I can spill it all to Marissa. He tends to have some good insights and ideas, so thanks. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell and you're not dead yet.