The Desperado of Deceit : David Avadon

NOTE: After this episode, we will have a brief pause due to vacation scheduling and making space for all that DREADED summer fun. I hope you all are doing the same, sweet taphophiles!  Check out another great show, Candy is Dandy while we're away!

A tombstone at Hollywood Forever Cemetery calls him the “Desperado Of Deceit” and that’s not a metaphor. We’re telling the story of David Avadon, a working magician and exhibition pickpocket who made a career out of taking watches, wallets, and ties from volunteers on stage and then handing everything back for laughs and applause. And would you believe that he got his start by teaming up with a Rabbi? 

We get nerdy about the craft. What actually makes pickpocketing work as entertainment? We talk misdirection, sleight of hand, psychology, touch, timing, and why the best performers pair technical skill with comedy and improv. We also break down the Magic Castle, the Academy of Magical Arts, and the exclusive invitation-only culture that shaped Avsdon’s long run as a respected Los Angeles magician, plus his travel, celebrity pockets, writing, and film and TV consulting.

If you love Hollywood history, stage magic, odd jobs, and niche true stories with jokes and real research, hit subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave us a review so more people can find Dead and Kind of Famous.

Transcript

Candy Breakfast And A Podcast Pick

Courtney 0:05

So we have to tell you guys about an amazing podcast. Mm-hmm.

Marissa 0:10

Um, I don't know if anyone else has a sweet tooth or Oh god, I sure do. I have to have something sweet at least once a day. A hundred percent. Sometimes sometimes for breakfast, and sometimes it's dessert. Yes, and sometimes when you get dessert out at night, you have to eat it for breakfast, and that's just the nature of your life. Yes, we literally got we had tress leches cake last night for dessert, and I had that and coffee this morning. What candy would you have for breakfast? Something, something with nuts. Yeah. Like a hazelnut chocolate or a Snickers, to be honest.

Courtney 0:42

Yep, yep, that sounds good. I mean, marathon runners do that. So I mean, listen, if you are a candy fan and you're a sweet tooth, you have to listen to Candy is Dandy. It is the world's only podcast entirely devoted to reviewing candy. So if you're looking for what candy to have for breakfast, they've probably talked about it.

Marissa 1:04

Chances are they've reviewed it, okay. It's hosted by Greg Gonzalez, Berosistos, and Daniel Zafron, three longtime best friends, comedians, and candy obsessives. Each episode that they pick a different candy, give us the history, and then taste and review it on air with all mouth sounds edited out. So don't you worry if you don't like that, it's not there. You'll never hear it. And if you do like that, then sorry.

Courtney 1:33

You're shit out of it. So they found a lot of fun facts out about candy, and you know we love a fun fact. We do. Um, I was listening to one of their episodes, and they were talking about um how Reese's gets its unique flavor, and it's like basically from burning peanuts essentially and putting it with like powdered sugar, which I would never have guessed.

Marissa 1:54

So I would have never guessed that. Fun fact. Also, fun fact, uh, Snickers, which is one of my breakfast candies, of course. Snickers was named after a horse. Makes sense.

Courtney 2:06

Butterfingers had a connection to the atomic bomb. I don't know what that is, but go find that episode and listen to it. They have had way too many peach rings with comedy bang bang and SNL's Carl Tart on an episode. So there's a lot.

Marissa 2:21

And then each episode also ends with a nice little candy-related game. So if you love candy, you're gonna love the show. They cover all the candies you've loved from your childhood and more. It's so nostalgic and awesome. Yeah.

Courtney 2:33

And, you know, and you guys might get some ideas for what to snack on for our long ass episodes. So go give it a listen. You can find Candy is Dandy wherever you get your podcasts, wherever podcasts are found. Candy is dandy, check it out.

Marissa 2:50

And I'm off to watch the Ferrero Rocher episode because I love those. Because again, I love I love chocolate with nuts. It's true. It's true.

Courtney 2:58

Delish. Delush.

Meet Nora Plus Plastic Anxiety

Courtney 3:26

And now reside permanently in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I'm Nora Nagatani and I know nothing. But I do know that the Bissell vacuum cleaner works wonderfully. Uh, we got a new one today, and I'm thrilled with its suction power. I'm not sponsored by Bissle, but I'm very domesticated at this point, and it excites me. The suction power excites you? Well, not, you know, not in that way, but like the amount of dirt and cat hair that has come off the floor. You know, no, I get it.

Courtney 4:06

Yeah. Well, my name is Courtney Blomquist, as our listeners know. You all know me, but you don't know Nora. Nora is someone who, you know, Easter egg in the last episode we did mention because her girlfriend Jessica was our special guest, um, along with her co-host Zach for that episode about James Michael Tyler. Um, I'm always at risk of mixing up all of his names, all of his first names. Um, but but yeah, so we did that episode. It was really, really fun and and you know, alluded to the fact that uh, or actually just said that Nora was our our other best friend, uh, which is true, and that we approve of Jessica. So love that. Yeah, yeah. But Nora's helping me out today. First of all, I mean, like, I've wanted to have you on the show anyway. Like, we're at our best, truly, when we're all just, I don't know, like in our Instagram group, just yes, sending each other stupid crap. And it has been changed to best friends by the way. It's just best friends. Yeah, no, I saw that. But it's anyway, it's like that's that's pretty much we're all long distance now. We used to all live in LA, and now it's Nora's in Chicago, I'm in Minnesota, and Marissa is still in LA. So, which is good because now we have somewhere to go when we visit. Yes. But anyway, okay, so I know everything about what we're gonna be talking about today. What I don't know is how to rise to the challenge of eliminating plastic from my life. I feel like that's what we're all being called to do now, and I don't know how to do it. Like, I don't even know, like it's like a hard thing to, I don't know. I feel like you have to special order everything and really commit to it because otherwise it's like it's just everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

It's pretty much in in everything you eat as well. And it's well, I did just read an article about kimchi and how it kind of goes through your system and you know, eliminates some of the plastics and really yes. So I'm going and kimchi is good any anything fermented is really great for your gut health. So I'm drinking a kombucha right now. Yeah. Oh have you heard the hit TikToks on that kombucha did a number on me? No. Oh, it goes that kombucha did a number on me.

Courtney 6:28

Is that supposed to mean that it gave you like the shits or something? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

It's it is it's it's it's it did a number two on me. He goes, like a one, like a two, like a tree. Um, it has been many people's vocal stim, and I do know him, and it's my friend Jacob Jeffries, but it has had had like millions and millions of hits, and um he's a very great musician, but now he's known for the kombucha TikTok.

Courtney 6:56

Wow. Wow. Maybe he'll A fun fact. A fun fact. Yeah, we love talking about obscure things on this show. I mean, that's that's really why the people are here. It's true, actually. It's very true. That's entirely what this podcast is. So um perfect. Well,

A Movie Tip And Tombstone Clues

Courtney 7:14

oh, I have a recommendation I want to say before we keep going, because it reminded me so much of what I'm doing with this show and like the kind of research that happens. I watched this movie, and Nora, you would love this movie. It's called The Watermelon Woman. Have you ever heard of that? No, it's it's like a 90s movie and it's sort of like gay cinema, like a landmark gay cinema film, because it's the first like black lesbian director, and she's like the star and director of it. But her name's Cheryl, I'm forgetting right now. But anyway, she works in a video store. It's about her, like, you know, trying to find out about this like uh star like you know, somebody who was playing like mammy parts and stuff in like old 30s movies, but she was like, Who is that actress? Like, what is you know, where where what was she doing? What was going on with her? And then she just kind of goes down this like rabbit hole for the whole movie. That's like the movie, and I was like, Oh my god, like this is exactly what I do.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

That's awesome.

Courtney 8:15

I know. Did it come out this year? No, it's old, it's like from the 90s. That's what I'm saying. It's like a landmark movie because it was like that was like the first thing. So I'll have to look that up. That sounds great. Yeah, but anyway, hot hot tip. Um, I'm like, yeah, you'll love it, Nori. You're a lesbian. No, you wouldn't though you would. No.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

My my brother's friend came up to Jessica and I. We came to their show. He's in a like a punk band and he's like, You two are lesbians. You like Portlandia, right?

Courtney 8:48

Yes, we do.

unknown 8:50

Yes.

Courtney 8:50

I want to go against the stereotype here, but I I cannot. Yeah. Yep. So, all right. Well, let's let's go ahead and get into this this lively subject today. This week, we are discussing the life of David Avadon. Nora, have you heard of David Avadon?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I have not, but I love his last name. That sounds like a star.

Courtney 9:19

I know. It's a very Hollywood name. Very Hollywood name. So perfect. Let's look at his tombstone. And I'm excited to show you this one because I feel like this is gonna throw you for a loop. This is like, like just so you know, Nora, this is where you get all your clues. You don't know anything, but you do get to look at the tombstone, so you can, you know, you get a little bit of information. So walk us through what you're seeing.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Okay, it says David Abaddon, and it has a little cursive of just his last name, and then it says Desperado of Deceit. Interesting. And then 1948 to 2009. So that would have made him 61. Uh 60. Yeah.

Courtney 10:02

I think I think he was probably almost 60, right? So I think technically 60. Yeah. 60. Okay. So yeah. This tombstone looks to be, it's hard to tell exactly like what kind of tombstone it is, because it is a very close-up picture that I have of this, but um, it looks like the kind that is, and again, I don't know what this is called. I should look it up. I'm gonna look it up right now. Um, graves that are plates on the ground. You know what I mean? That's what it's flush markers or flat grave markers. That's what it's called. So it's not as exciting. I thought I'd have a more sexy name than that. It does not. Um they're flat. Uh it's it looks like one of those to me, but like slightly thicker. I don't know. It's it's yeah, it's kind of raised, you know, it's not flush with the ground. It's not flush with the ground. So, but the and yet all the the writing is like on top of it, you know? Like it's like you could sit on it or something. It looks like a little bench, like a little toddler climbing block, you know.

Making Up David’s Fake Life

Courtney 11:13

Yeah. So now this is the time, and Nora, you haven't done this before, but you get to decide, you know, you don't know anything except for what you just saw. Give us a totally fake uh obituary of David Avidon's life. Um, you can do it as yourself or as David Avidon, which is what Marissa does.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

But that's up to you. Desperado, exactly the the definition of that would be Desperado. Yeah, like Desperado.

Courtney 11:48

I'm gonna I want to look up the exact definition so I I'm not like why don't you come to your senses? Who sings that? Why do I know this song anyway?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Um it's also a movie, it looks like it's not easy to just come up with a exactly it's a reckless, bold outlaw or criminal, okay? And he is a bold outlaw of deceit. You know, Marissa always does a southern accent, and I when I think of a desperado, a bold outlaw.

unknown 12:28

Yep.

Courtney 12:29

Wow, you underst ladies and gentlemen, did sh does she not understand the assignment of stepping in for Miss Marissa Rivera?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

She's taking Marissa's, yeah, her go-to for an American is Southern, and then she of course can nail the Puerto Rican accent. Okay. Um, okay. Maybe maybe I won't do a southern, but maybe I'll drop my voice. Oh, it's going to southern. I'm sorry. It's going to southern anyway. I love it. A little bit of forest gump. It's going to forest gump. Southern, southern anyway. I was running. Um, okay. All right. My name's David Avadon. I was born in Texas in 1948. My mommy and my papi uh raised me on steel oats grits. And uh steel cut grits?

Courtney 13:27

Steel cut grit. Steel grits. Wait, are steel-cut grits the same? No, steel cut oats.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Steel cut oats and slabs of meat. We got from the farm, chicken and mostly steak. My dad would kill a whole cow. And we'd live off that for the next 16 months. We kept it in the freezer. I uh I eat six to eight to twelve eggs every morning. We'll just say six to twelve eggs every morning, and uh Gaston. And I uh, you know, I got my start. I just walked into Hollywood and said, here I am, David Avadon. Look at these cowboy boots. I'm the desperado of deceit. I have a mustache and a very chiseled jaw, and uh, you know, the ladies like that, and gentlemen too. I'm not I'm not uh picky. Uh you'll rarely see me without my spurs and my my chaps on my assless chaps on my assless chaps going for a gentleman. You know, my muscles are sometimes so big they don't fit into the sleeves of my shirt, I gotta cut them out. And uh what else can I say? Uh and I'm dead. You know what? And I'm dead. That's good. Okay.

Courtney 15:06

And I'm dead. Um great. So

The Magician Revealed At Hollywood Forever

Courtney 15:11

now let me share what I know about David Abaddon. Thank you though for all of those southern fried lies. We love them. We love them, and we love the southern accent. But I don't actually know like everything about David Abaddon. I've it's not like there's so many sources on him. Um so I did have to kind of piece together some stuff. And also he was secretive because people in his profession relied upon their secrets not being revealed. They had to keep their card tricks close to the chest, so to speak, or their credibility would disappear just like magic. That's right. We're talking about a magician. David Avidon was a magician.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Oh, of course, that makes sense.

Courtney 16:07

Yep. So if the sexiness of this profession doesn't make you weak in the knees, the riches and reliability should. Am I right? No, not typically, but our guy today, David Avidon, obviously did well enough to be interred at Hollywood forever. And if we haven't mentioned it lately, a reminder that it's very expensive to be buried there. They actually are very I don't have them off the top of my head, but they're very forthcoming with exactly what the price is for like each type of you know spot that you could be.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

So and and it is like a process you'd have to be chosen to even be buried there, right? There's not just a price you could pay, or am I wrong?

Courtney 16:47

Uh I think that you could no, I think you could pay the price if there's, you know, space for what you wanted. I mean, it's I think that the actual tombstones are, you know, they're the most expensive. Um and I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was somewhere in like the 2000s, and and then I think yeah, that kind of thing. But perhaps his wealth is due to the fact that he could not only be described as a magician or illusionist, but also as a professional thief. And as our current president proves, that can be quite lucrative. Um you want to earn a buck, steal from people. Um it it works. So as his grave describes, uh, David Avidon was the desperado of deceit. I feel like I need to like have a smoke machine. Yeah. Um he was also proud of the title, the fastest pickpocket in the west, which you know, he was going for something kind of Western for sure, with these names. Yeah. Yeah. So um, and the reason he could openly brag about his abilities like this is because he was an exhibition pickpocket, as David said in an interview.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Unlike street pickpockets, uh give the things back I steal for a round of applause at the end of the show.

Courtney 18:14

His friend, the author and fellow magician Sid Fleischmann said of him.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Now you're Sid Fleischman. Avidon really was the king of the pickpockets. He was honest but very skilled. He could lift wallets from the chiefs of police, which he had done in Los Angeles.

Courtney 18:36

Wow. I feel like that's a bold move to lift a wallet from the chief of police of Los Angeles. I feel like that's a, you know, I will I'll sh I should say that now. David Avidon was white. Um at the white privilege move.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

I was about to say. Yeah.

Courtney 18:53

Um, but yeah, so it may sound like an oxymoron, but David Avidon was an honest thief. So let's get into it. David

Early Life And Learning Magic Fast

Courtney 19:03

Avedon appeared in this world out of thin air, and that's Magician Speak for He was born, on December 11th, 1948, in Inglewood, California, as David Hutchins. His father was an engineer, and his mother was an acrobatic dancer in vaudeville. From what I can tell, he had just one brother, Joe Hutchins. The vaudeville acrobat mother, like, I don't know about you. Yeah. But that feels like an important detail, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Like I mean, if your mother's in vaudeville, you're gonna be doing some type of entertainment. Some type of weird. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

You're either a trap piece artist or you're uh or you're uh pickpocket.

Courtney 19:50

Yeah, you're like, what is this, what is this uh animal instinct I have to to take off my hat, flip it over, and put it on the ground, do something for money. Um, yeah, there's something there. So, like if you've ever wondered how magicians are born, I really think we've discovered the answer. And it is acrobats. They are born from acrobats, they are always born of an acrobat. Fight me. Um, I don't know what I'm talking about, but it feels like it could be true, you know? So, but in all seriousness, David's interest in magic began as it often does during his school years. At school in West Los Angeles, he used to brag that he could do magic just to impress his peers. And if there's anything more sad than bragging about magic to be cool, it's bragging about magic to be cool when you do not, in fact, know how to do magic. And that's that's what David did. He didn't know, he didn't know, he was just bragging about it. What was actually though, like I relate to this? I never said that I knew how to do magic. I had no interest in you know, pretending that. But I did lie about a lot of other things when I was younger. I was like a big liar about stupid, stupid things. So I relate to this. Give me an example. I'm pretty sure I've told you this before, but um when I was in first grade, I tried to do like a Brooklyn accent or what I thought was a Brooklyn accent for my class. And mind you, I grew up in Indiana. So it was like I tried to do that, and um, and I told everybody, they're like, Why are you talking like that? And I was like, Well, I was I was born in a plane that flew over, yeah, that flew over Brooklyn, and I picked it up like it was a disease, like it was really stupid. And like, and then I got sent to speech therapy.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

I kind of love that though. I mean, what a random lie. I I I had a girl in like in uh elementary school that did that too. She was like, she pretended to have a Brooklyn accent, and everyone's like, I don't think she's it began to fade over time.

Courtney 22:04

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw like a movie like Guys and Dolls or something, and then I was like, I'm just that's gonna be my voice now.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah. You know, the New York, like the original Brooklyn accent is just so cool. I think it still is cool, but it's like a dying Right. It's a dinosaur for sure.

Courtney 22:20

Yeah. Yeah. But you weren't a liar?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Um, you know, I'm sure I was already like super weird. So it and you know, I'm like an Asian in f in a Florida public school, so like there wasn't many of us. So people were already like looking at me anyway, you know, like I got attention uh whether I wanted it or not. So I didn't have to like lie about a ton of things, but what I did do all the time in pictures was like I opened my eyes real, real wide to pretend to be like a white person, you know, so like it just like looks like I have like glaucoma like in all my elementary school pictures. And I did I tried to say I wasn't Asian, but I was like, no, like I I'm not Asian. My dad my parents are from Chicago because you know, like I didn't know, you know, right. Right, right, right, right. And like first and first and grade and second grade, I was like, no, my parents are from Chicago, I'm not Asian. So I think that was a thing I did lie about.

Courtney 23:22

Okay, well, he was lying about being able to do magic, and this was a conundrum for 12-year-old David because his teacher heard him bragging and decided to schedule him to perform in front of the school to show off his magic abilities. So, with the date of his performance just one week away, David ran to the library and dedicated himself to reading every book on magic that he was lucky enough to come across. And he powered through and made that show work, which is, you know, surprising. That doesn't feel like that would work. Um, by the end of it, he got a big round of applause and the feeling of adoration was magical. David was hooked. So after majoring in theater, because what else would he major in? Of course. Come on. What else is a magician gonna major in? Truly, unless they're going to like Hogwarts. But he went to UCLA. So um he decided to perform his first transformation by changing his last name from Hutchins to Avidon, which, you know, makes a ton of sense. Avidon. Yes, it's a much more chic, starry name. Like he was picturing himself in a fancy outfit when he came up with that name, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yes, absolutely.

Courtney 24:45

Yeah, like something shiny. Okay, something like what's the word lame. I feel like he was picturing someone some shiny gold lame when he said Avidon, because it sounds like that. So it's gonna get all the bitches. Yeah, well, it's kind of it's gonna get all the bitches. Um, all

Sabbath Services With Stage Illusions

Courtney 25:04

right. So shortly after he changed his name, he hitchhiked around America and performed for food, a place to stay, and enough money to keep him rolling into the next city. So truly like taking off my hat, putting it on the ground, taking some cash and moving on, like full-on busker magician.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Busking, yeah.

Courtney 25:24

A mabusker. He was a mabusker. But once he returned to his sunny home base of California, he began to zero in on his craft even more, appearing as a professional illusionist in clubs around Hollywood and gigging as a musician. One day when he was performing an outdoor magic act for children, he was spotted by a local rabbi of Temple Soleil. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but some sources say it was in Canoga Park, and others say it was outside of Lacma. But either way, the rabbi was very impressed with David's ability. The rabbi's gears began turning, and he thought that maybe, just maybe, this could be the way he'd be able to truly connect with his congregation. This feels like I'm making this up. This feels like I'm I'm saying the fake obituary right now, doesn't it?

unknown 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

So the rabbi's like, let's get more people to come. Yeah.

Courtney 26:29

I'm like, just let's let me start this by like with a bad joke premise and just keep talking. Um so he approached David with an offer to team up with him to present Sabbath services with him. Being Jewish himself and never want to turn down the opportunity to show off his prowess, David accepted. And the way the service would go is that the rabbi would tell a story from the Bible from his pulpit, and David would do visual aids and illusions from the center of the stage. So examples of this included illustrating a Talmud story on the miracle of oil for lamps by producing eight lit candles at once from one. So there is a picture of him like holding up his hands with like a bunch of candles like in between his fingers. And I guess it would just be like, you know what I mean? Like fire all at once. Um so apparently attendance for the Sabbath services skyrocketed from the usual 150 to 200 congregates, which is like pretty good, I feel like, as a starting point, um, to mega church style crowds of 750 plus. So David was like a star attraction at the synagogue or the temple. Yeah. So, and the kids in attendance particularly rose. So he called in the little children to hear the good word. And uh around this time in 1973, which is just, I mean, but I let's just pause for a second. That's so, so random. Um, very random start. Yeah. But it feels like, I mean, Nora, you did a lot of theater. What's the stupidest, you know, like how how am I doing this? Was it like either a location or the show itself where you were like, Am I performing or is am I just hanging out in a basement? You know?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Oh man. I think like the first, the first uh paid, like decently paid gig I got out of college, I was like, um, I moved to New York and then I booked this tour around the Midwest, and we learned we memorized like four children's shows, and we would go to different schools, right? And set them up. And I was playing a meth addict. It was a super heavy, super heavy show. Oh, you were one of those shows. And they like had us prep, like you know, real heavy for it. Like had to take like these drug classes and kind of.

Courtney 29:05

I thought you were gonna say I had to take these drugs, just had to experience it.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

They gave me little hits of math. Yeah. Just try it.

Courtney 29:14

Just try it once so you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

So you know what it feels like. Yeah, yeah. And it was so heavy, and it actually emotionally took a lot out of me. You know, I had these crying scenes and these like horrible scenes, or I'm like, you know, my family is leaving me and stuff, and I'm like doing it for like I know, and I'm like doing it for seventh graders. And I remember one of the directors was like, You're doing such a beautiful performance. And he's like, I'm so sad that like no one is really gonna see it. Just see seventh grade kids that are then like mad at me by the end of the show. I remember like I was doing a scene, and one of the I said something, then one of the girls goes, Liar, out in the audience. I was like, Jesus Christ.

Courtney 29:57

Why were they mad though? I was always happy to go get out of class to sit down and see it.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

They were mad at my character, I think, because she was manipulative and you know, a drug addict and a meth head. So it was like they were pissed at her, but I'm like, we're doing this for seventh graders. Nobody here. Do people do seventh graders have access to meth? I mean, I guess it was in the Midwest, so who knows?

Courtney 30:18

I mean, I know I mean that's the thing. Maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

But uh yeah, that was those times when I'm like, what am I doing with my life? Yeah, for sure. Do you have some?

Courtney 30:31

Uh yeah. My first thing that I did out of college was in New York, where I uh got like a play, but it was an outside children's play, you know, in a park. Um, oh yeah, you'll get a kick out of this. It was in this park in Long Island, but the park used to be the campus of a like mental institution. So there were like multiple. Nora has had some psych word experience. And I say that because you talk about it. She Nora does comedy, she talks about her experience. I'm very open about it. Yes. She's very open about it, but yeah. Um, so yeah, that but that's like where we were performing it, and then children would come and we would, you know, and I I remember having to Into like an old psych ward building? Well, no, it was outside of them. There were several It was outside of it. Okay. Yeah, but still it was weird, you know. Yeah, it was clearly like the cheapest park space they could get in the area, right? Like it was weird. So yeah, so David, David's David's rise began in a synagogue, which is bizarre.

The Pickpocket Mentor And The Craft

Courtney 31:43

Um, but we relate, we relate. Around this time in 1973, David saw this performance by a British pickpocket named Vic Perry. The reactions from the audience showed that this was something unexpected and fresh, and they were all they were there for it.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

As David said, Spectators weren't entertained, they were riveted. Riveted.

Courtney 32:07

On the edge of their seats. Um so David started to learn what he could about the stage art of pickpocketing. In his research, he began to learn about the lineage of performers of this very niche corner of illusion work. He discovered the pickpocketers that created the art form, like Apollo Robbins, Boris Bora, Ricky Dunn, and Dr. Giovanni. All stage names, if I do say so. You know, these are all very strong stage names. So Dr. Giovanni in particular intrigued him. Dr. Giovanni was a comedy magician and illusionist who had begun doing a pickpocketing act in London in 1929. By the 1930s, he was known as the king of pickpockets. Claiming to have trained in medicine as a younger man, he used the Doctor moniker as his stage name. And prior to becoming a magician, he had also worked as an acrobat. And remember what we said about acrobats and magicians. It is all connected, man. It is all connected.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Can't have one without the other. I mean, also the doctor, the stolen valor. You know, he's like he trained in medicine as a younger man. What does that mean? I know. The stolen valor. He didn't do 10 years of med school. Anyway.

Courtney 33:38

Dr. Pepper has more credentials than you. So stupid. So anyway, Dr. Giovanni's show had run until the 40s, and he had pulled off some shenanigans with a capital S. He nabbed FDR's watch four times, Winston Churchill's suspenders once, and J. Edgar Hoover's suspenders as well. So he gave back Churchill's suspenders and then he kept Hoover's, by the way. So um that was a detail that was out there. Uh, but anyway, so yeah, so he knew what he was doing. He, you know, he was able to fool. Um, anyway, David tracked him down in the 70s at least 30 years after Dr. Giovanni had stopped performing altogether and persuaded him to be his pickpocketing mentor. And if you know I mean, how do those words even go together? But pickpocketing mentor. Um, as Avidon later said.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

That was my beginning in the underground art. You know, he's probably not southern at all, but he but you gotta go by desperato. Yeah, I'm committed to the bit. Desperado. It sounds like a cowboy though, no? Yep. Desperate, you know.

Courtney 35:04

That was yeah, so he this was, you know, it definitely an underground art. I mean, I feel like this is like the equivalent of somebody being like a fire dancer or something. Something weird, like or like circusy, something circus-y, circus-like.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Right? Oh, the pickpocket. Yeah. Yeah, I mean also, I I mean, how do you discover you're good at that?

Courtney 35:28

I I guess Yeah, so we'll we'll talk about what it takes, but it it seemed uh yeah, actually, we're gonna get into that right now. Um, it seems like learning this craft would not be very easy, largely because of the secretive nature of its practitioners. I mean, magicians in general are not gonna be like, yeah, let me show you all my tricks. It's just kind of not what they do. It's that's the whole point, I guess. Um, I could be wrong, but it seems like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

No, I think they're very yeah, guarded about their secrets.

Courtney 35:57

Right. The secrets are like how they make money. An acquaintance of David named Bob Arno puts it like this.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Oh, this is another character.

Courtney 36:05

Yeah, this is Bob Arno.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Now you're Bob Arno. Bob Arno The art of pit pocketing is tightly protected art form, and it is don impossible to get the real facts or true techniques revealed. Because basically, because stage pickpocketing versus stealing in the streets depends on the individual persona of the performer and how he adapts his mannerism and personality to the ex attraction techniques. It is the marriage of the two that fosters a dynamic pickpocket show. It also requires a strong sense of comedy, and it is to some extent quick verbal skills and improvisation. Without these combined ingredients, the show will fall flat. That is why there are few pickpocket entertainers today, or ever. It is extremely hard to learn and turn into effective entertainment.

Courtney 37:03

Somehow that was exactly what it was supposed to be. Um that fosters a dynamic. Yeah, his word choices alone. Um but David Avedon was a quick and determined study. In his own words, he puts it like this. So you're David Avedon again now.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

What's involved in learning to be a pickpocket is learning the techniques and stealing things. Oh, typical man. It's it's exactly like playing the piano. Your left hand is doing something different than your right hand. The hardest part is understanding how human beings work. What you're trying to do is suggest to somebody that something totally different is happening, and at the same time they're losing their watch, their necktie, and their wallet. That's the skill. Can I just say uh uh you know, uh Jessica and I were talking to about this recently because she just went to a magic show this week. I kid you for work. For work? Yes, it was like oh, you know, on one of those team building, you could go or not, but she goes to that.

Courtney 38:14

She's a corporate magician.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Well, the corporate office was going to see a magician, but we have this bit bit now. It's like uh men are great at it because it's all about like gaslighting and manipulating and lying and getting people to believe something that's not true, and like they pretty much cornered the market on that. We're lesbians, so this is our take, but you don't see a ton of female magicians. I'll say that.

Courtney 38:42

That's really that is true. I can't even picture a female magician. I feel like I see I saw one. Well, well, we'll get into I'm gonna save all this for later, but okay. I'm gonna save all this for later. Another pickpocket and psychological illusionist, Darren Brown, says that the techniques of the pickpocket are a blend of misdirection, sleight of hand, and psychology. Um, basically what you just said, Nora. Um deceit. A big tactic is using the magic routine as the distraction, right? And then getting close to the victim for the sake of the card or coin trick, whatever it is that you're showing them or doing. And then even more important, um, and then an even more important element is to get them used to being touched so they don't notice as much when you're absolutely fleecing them. So it's a lot of like I watched some videos of it, and it's a lot of like, oh no, no, no, no, put your hand like over here. No, don't you're they're kind of like positioning them sort of a lot and being like, no, no, no, don't worry about it. You can just and getting them very used to being like they're like adjusting them a lot. Like it's kind of like adjusting their their butt, like, oh no, no, you could just move right over here. You stand stand a little closer, like don't be a stranger, you know, like a lot of little like light touches. Light light touches. I'm just being like putting on a show, being lightly, mildly entertaining, trying to make you smile a little bit and loosen up. And it all feels like that, but really it's like I'm also trying to loosen you up in terms of like get used to it's not gonna feel shocking when you feel me, like my hand on you. I'm gonna because I'm doing that a few times. It also feels like you said a very male tactic. Let's get her used to touch just touching her.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

She'll adjust. Oh no. Okay, so as David Avidon himself says, We imagine that a street pickpocket is a slick guy who rushes past you and suddenly has your watch and your wallet. The truth of it is that the street pickpockets work in teams, and at least two, usually three, sometimes four or five or even more. The things that they do are carefully choreographed so that just for the briefest moments their mark is distracted. During the course of the show, as I'm doing magic for them, I'm also stealing their watches, wallets, and neckties, and the pacemakers and their liver transplants and anything else that isn't tied down. All the things I steal I show to the audience as I'm stealing them. That's what makes it so funny for the audience. I would be mortified if he took a pacemaker off somebody.

Courtney 41:27

I'm pretty sure I would be much more mortified if he took someone's liver transfer. Someone's liver. Yeah. Um so it wasn't it wasn't long before David was mastering this odd magic show offshoot.

Magic Castle Prestige And Celebrity Pockets

Courtney 41:43

Um, soon he had become a featured performer at Los Angeles' very own mystical hall of magic, the Magic Castle. Nora, have you ever been to the Magic Castle?

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I did, and it was like briefly because I had to like go to something else for work that night. So like I went for a friend's birthday and I only got like the very beginning of the show. Like I had a drink and we had it and I had a be and they what I do remember though, it was great because he pulled out like two pigeons from like out of the air, and I was like, what the fuck? It really was like impressive, and I understand why it's like very hard to get in there, but I didn't I didn't honestly get to see a full show, but what I did see was wonderful. Did you have you gone?

Courtney 42:29

Yes, I went once with Marissa, Mike, and Christina. And I went on my birthday, it was after Iris was born. I mean, not right after Iris was born, but she was probably like six months old.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

And so not not too long ago.

Courtney 42:41

It wasn't too long ago. Really, yeah, yeah. And so I uh I was there for like a little while. It's it's a trip of a place, like it really is. We'll we'll we'll talk about it even more, but it's it's bizarre. It's like this old mansion, um and uh yeah, like a club for mu magicians, basically. It is the place to go for magic, really. Like it it is. It's it's like a question people get asked a lot in LA. Have you been to the magic castle? Have you been? Because the other thing is you have to be invited, and we'll talk about that too.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

But you can't just go just yeah, you have to be invited.

Courtney 43:15

So he performed there for over 30 years and was held in high esteem. Mark Nelson, chairman of the board of the Academy of Magical Arts, said his performances included an equal balance of mystery and comedy.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

David always gave a polished, assured performance, drawing laughter and amazement.

Courtney 43:40

Yes. I just want to pause for a second. Like we're already getting into it, but um if you're not from LA, like you don't understand. The Magic Castle is very exclusive. It is very exclusive. And and everyone knows, like everybody knows that. It is this gorgeous old mansion from the 1900s. And it is such a trip. I have only been there once. Um, and the reason is because you, like we said, you have to get an invitation from a member, right? So members are typically active magicians and some non-magicians who are also part of the Academy of Magical Arts. Like you have to be a part of the Academy of Magical Arts.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

So that's like a union.

Courtney 44:26

Uh I don't think it's like a union. Okay, okay. No, I think it's no, it's not a union, it's an internationally recognized organization that develops new ways of stimulating interest in the art of magic. So that's their whole mission is stimulating interest in the art of magic. Um and the reason I got to go was because a friend of Marissa's, Mike, like we're just saying, was studying magic there. Like he was taking classes, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Oh, Mike, the Mike, the guy that works for uh. Yeah, worked, he's like a rocket scientist. Yeah.

Courtney 45:04

So right. So before you dane. Yeah. So he was taking um these magic classes, and then I he was became a member through that, I guess. So then we were able to go. And um, it's amazing. There are like small rooms where magicians are doing more intimate shows, like card tricks and kind of stuff where you have to see a little closer up, I would say. And then there's also large stage shows that are more formal and flashy and that kind of thing. Um, and then there's like unique little bars throughout the place, and the restaurant is actually really good.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Um the restaurant was good. It's so good and it's cute. And they had like drinks and stuff. It was fun.

Courtney 45:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's legitimately like a really good time. So um, really great spot. Highly recommend if you get invited. It's very exclusive. Good luck. Yeah. But there are two types of membership: magician membership and associate membership. Magicians need to be practicing magicians as a career or hobby and pass an audition. And associates largely just have to pay more money, but it's quite steep. For the associate track, the initiation fee is like six thousand dollars and then it's two hundred dollars a month after that. So yeah, oh my god, very, very exclusive. Like that's like who's like, yeah, I have like that much money all the time to just like throw towards magic. It's people in LA. Yeah, people in LA, it's true. What am I what am I saying? Of course. Um, but anyway, I think that all of this proves that David had some serious chops. Like you, like you said, it was what you saw was amazing. I felt the same way. It was like you're definitely getting people who are really great performers there, and you know, they know what they're doing and they know how to baffle you, essentially. It was definitely like, oh, yeah, I don't know how you did that, you know. And also just like good entertainers, people who like, yes, they make you laugh. There's like there's a whole level of it, it's not just like the trick, it's the whole performance. So, but they're all like very, very good at it. I had to go home at a certain point. I stayed a while, but I had to go to a certain point because I was still breastfeeding at that point. Yeah, the newborn, yeah. The like milk was leaking out of my dress at a certain point. We've all been there. Yeah, yeah. Not me, but yeah, but plenty of people. Um in addition to his magic castle shows, David kept himself busy in other magical ways. He wrote a magic magazine column for Geni Magazine. It's G-E-N-I-I magazine, um, which is a magician's magazine, in case you don't know. One of the oldest magicians magazines, where he reviewed magic tricks in a column called Sorcerer's Side Arms. So he would like pick apart other magicians' tricks and and write about it. And that was that was his column. He traveled, yeah. So he traveled the world with his Desperado of Deceit act, traveling through the US, Singapore, Great Britain, and Japan. And he picked celebrity pockets in live shows like those of Pierce Brosnan, Michael Douglas, and Tony Shaloub. Um, who's like uh Tony Shaloub, that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

I don't know why it's in a magic show. Yes, he would be in a magic show and you know, yeah, Jewish and right.

Courtney 48:23

Michael Douglas, I think would be scarier. Like you'd be like, just to mess with him. You'd be like, oh no, are are you gonna play like the guy that uh tries to kill his wife right now? Because I feel like he's done that multiple times as a kid. I was just talking about this. Like, I feel like every like erotic thriller from the 90s has Michael Douglas in it, like pretty much usually playing a asshole who's trying to kill his wife, or I mean, I guess he also has or the opposite, and right, or he's the he's the victim that you don't really ever buy. Like I saw the one with Demi Moore.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Is that the one you're thinking of? Which no, I'm thinking of the one with Glenn Close, and she's him, and she like kills a killer.

Courtney 49:07

Is it yeah, killer basic attraction or killer instinct? Basic fatal attraction. Fatal attraction. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I was gonna say, I felt like the title was more on the nose than that. We're close, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, like, but yeah, he's always that guy, and then the one with Demi Moore is the one where it's like you know, she's sexually harassing him, and it's like very silly, and they're trying to- Another one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

There's there's two where the women are are harassing and stalking him.

Courtney 49:36

Well, it's not just like Glenn Close is more of a stalker. Demi Moore in that movie is like, and I'm forgetting, I think it's called Disclosure, I want to say.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah, that's 1994.

Courtney 49:46

Yeah, so that that one was like she's the boss, like I think she gets the job that he wanted, or something like that. And she basically is supposed to be coming onto him, but then it's it's implied, or not even implied. They have like this ridiculous scene where it's like it's almost like he's like, no, no, but he she's like, you know, she's giving him head, and it's like and he's and he's like, no, please stop right to me more.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Right. Okay.

Courtney 50:17

It's like that movie gets really lampooned because it's like, what?

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Unrealistic. I've never seen it, but I'll add it to my cue.

Courtney 50:25

Yeah, it's a good, bad movie. Watch. I do feel like the actors, we were talking about it, the actors are doing the most in it. They really carry the movie, like it's it's full of like really good actors, and it's a terrible script and terrible concept. And it was written by oh, that's the other thing. That movie was written by Michael Crichton.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Wait, wait, wait.

Courtney 50:43

Uh uh The Jurassic Park guy.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Yeah, I was like, he wrote it? Yes. And it's so bad. You know, they're not all gonna be, you're not gonna hit them all out of the park, you know.

Courtney 50:58

I mean, yeah, but the entire concept of that is so stupid. It's like, it's really, really dumb. So anyway, that was oh my god, the tangents. So, okay. Um, great. So anyway, yeah, so he did Tony Shaloop, that's where we were. Um somehow we got from Tony Shaloub to Tony Shaloub seemed like the most appropriate person. I don't know to be. This was a that was a Michael Douglas spin-off. That's right. Yeah. So and so that was not where his Hollywood glamour ended, though, was just picking celebrity pickpockets or picking celebrities' pockets. He also worked as a technical consultant on films, usually for sequences requiring cards, pickpocketing, cutlery, or magic. The cutlery one is like I think probably like I would imagine I'm making this up entirely. So I just want to make that clear, but I would imagine it's like the level of knife work that um, you know, those scenes where people do the like stabbing around their fingers and stuff, or like when they're like anybody throwing that. I don't know if he did throwing knife stuff, but like those there are like magic knife things, you know what I mean? Oh, I'm sure he like knew how to do some of that. Um, but yeah, so anyway, um he worked some of the films and television shows that he worked on, included Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. He advised on the card sequence in the uh Billy the Kid scene, if you're familiar. Um, it's just like where they're in a saloon playing cards and dealing them a certain way and whatever. So it wasn't a magic trick, but just like the card scene he advised on. Um, Tales from the Crypt, where he can actually be seen as the card dealer. And and magician, I mean, this all makes sense to me because I feel like smoothness with cards is something like that it looks very easy, but I suck at it. Like I'm so bad at it. Like, I don't, you know what I mean? I'm so and they're so good at it, they're so fluid, they can like make it like just that alone looks really impressive, you know?

SPEAKER_02 52:58

And you know, diehard, like card nerdy magicians are gonna be watching and be like, oh, that was not a good, you know, right, right, right, right.

Courtney 53:05

Like dissecting it. Yeah, or just like a poker freak or something. I don't know. Like people who just have their hands on cards all the time, like it just looks really fluid and nice. So, so that's kind of yeah, he got a lot of card gigs. Um, in the 1999 film Mystery Men, he also was uh uh I think a magic advisor on that one. The 1991 horror noir cast a deadly spell, which features Julianne Moore, um, interestingly enough, and 80s TV Western Brett Maverick, which I would imagine was also probably a card sequence. Um so somehow, somehow, he parlayed a career in magic into stage, film, and television work.

Books Columns Film Consulting And Legacy

Courtney 53:49

So, I mean, unless you're David Copperfield or something, like I can't really imagine being more much more successful than this in the world of magic, or like Chris Angel or somebody who's doing like idiotic things. Am I dating myself with these references? I feel like I am. Who's most recent?

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Yeah. Uh David Blaine. David Blaine. He took it to the max in terms of he's like the celebrities love him. He just But he was his whole persona is like, you want to see some magic?

Courtney 54:16

You know, he just like But his is like dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

His his thing was like a dangerous thing where it's like, oh, I'm gonna Yes, but he started by remember his show was like he it was like street some someone, David Blaine, and he would just walk up to randoms on the street and do project.

Courtney 54:31

Right, right, right. It's true. Yeah. So you're right.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

That's a more current But that's current, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For his time, that seems, yeah.

Courtney 54:39

I think it seems like, you know, if it to me, it's like the equivalent of when people are like, you know, you're a working actor. You're like you're you're you're working. Maybe you're not like an A-list celebrity, but you are making your living, you're doing your thing, like you regularly get work. Like that was he he was a working magician for a hundred percent. So uh very successful in a lot of ways. He also truly had a deep love for the art of exhibition pickpocketing and became a sort of scholar in the field. He wrote a comprehensive history and study of the art form and its practitioners called Cutting Up Touches, that is hard to get your hands on today. I think it might be technically out of print, but it is considered one of the best books around for this very niche art form. In one review/slash summary, the book is described this way. And Nora, you can read this. I'm just gonna read it as normal.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

Cutting up touch Yeah, as a normal Nora. Go figure. Cutting up touches is the first book ever written on the history of exhibition pickpocketing. In it, David Avedon traces this light-fingered entertainment from its murky music hall beginnings to the largest showrooms in the world. He profiles Giovanni and Borah, the architects of stealing on stage. He spotlights Dominic and Ricky Dunn, who made Emptying Pockets hilarious nightclub entertainment. He explains the stealth and showmanship of the wide array of wallet snatchers. He explores the powerful, subliminal emotions touched by each act of pocket thievery. He shares the fascinating lore surrounding the street crime turned performance art.

Courtney 56:22

Yeah, so I feel like he this you know, I haven't read the book, but I think that it's it's basically like a uh almost like a like a comprehensive history um of everyone who's done it. So in 2001, David Avidon married his wife, Miranda, who I know nothing about. Um, she's just listed as Miranda. She's just Miranda. Um, but she was it's me, just Miranda. Uh but she was with him until the end, which was eight years after their marriage. So he got married kind of late. Yeah. Yeah, he did, which kind of makes sense to me. You know, I mean, he's traveling around, he's going to like Singapore and whatever. Like, I don't feel like he was gonna be able to have a relationship. And yeah, or tied down and you know, yeah. And maybe he had to deal with the stigma of being a magician.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Magician. I was like, uh is he getting ladies?

Courtney 57:20

But you know, they're very smooth, I'll say that. Especially like the ones like at the Magic Castle and everything. I you know, there's a flirtiness to a magician, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Agreed, yeah. They do have a type of weird, you know, game, basically.

Courtney 57:33

Yeah, they do, they do. There's like a weird smooth slide, like a weird swagger, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And they're always kind of like nicely dressed, like so. There's something there. Yeah. Um, but in 2009, David was working out at a Los Angeles gym when he had a heart attack and passed away. He was 60 years old. So he just he went out quick um and uh unexpectedly, I think. I think he had like a uh some heart issues that had come up in recent years, it sounds like, but um yeah, that so it was still 60 is relatively young. Oh yeah. I'd say that's yeah, yeah, for sure. That's that's pretty quite young, actually, in today by today's standards. Exactly. So so anyway, that is the life story of David Avadon. Um, thoughts and impressions, Nora.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

I mean, this was very interesting to learn about. I had it, you know, the name he picked a great name because I was like, that sounds like a star, or and now we know a magician, and what an interesting life. And arguably being a working magician sounds even harder than being like a working actor.

Courtney 58:44

Right. Because there's like there's like very few avenues. There's like, you know, this road, this road, and this road. Those that's what you do, and that's like those are the places, and it's not even like a road, it's not like a ladder to climb. It's like that's where you get work. That building is where you can get work.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

You know you go to these three places, yeah. So um, I apologize for my uh accent. I, you know, went off it's okay.

Courtney 59:12

You know what? I feel like that listen, there are people who that's not their favorite part of this show, and that's fine. Listen, we are trying to keep things interesting and keep you awake, and um and it is what it is, right? It is what it is. Uh so anyway, um, I feel he was interesting. I wish there were some more things that I knew about him, like a little bit, I guess. Um I'm I I wish there were more details about his like mentorship. Like that sounds kind of interesting. Do you know what I mean? Like tracking guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

He's like, teach me about pickpocketing.

Courtney 59:51

Yeah, and like what that what that conversation was like, what that, like, what did he do to schmooz at him and butter him up? Like, I wish I had a few more details about that. Cause that's like to me, that's like almost like a movie premise. Do you know what I mean? Like a really stupid niche movie premise where it's like, yeah, like it and it actually reminds me a little bit of like did you see Marty Supreme yet? I did. Okay, it kind of was. What did you think of it? Um, it was crazy, but I liked it a lot more than like the other Softie Brother movies because like it didn't it was stressful, but it wasn't stressful in the same way that like Uncut Gems was, which destroyed me. And I was like, I paid money to feel this way, and I hate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Um and wasn't just this was just one of the safties, is wasn't it? Or am I wrong? I guess you're right. Yeah, it was one of the safties. But what did it remind you of?

Courtney 1:00:48

Well in it? It's reminding me, like, so what we're talking about, like somebody doing something basically really, really niche and you know what I mean, and then kind of trying to like c have tactics to go about it in a like a weird way. Like finding the pickpocketing mentor feels like something like that character would do, you know what I mean? If like it wasn't ping pong, but it was magic. Like it's it feels like that character could have been a magician, like like it's it's just as stupid, you know what I mean? Um but anyway, I wish I knew a few more details like that. Other than that, I did find it interesting. I mean, like, I don't know, the life story of a magician is something besides like somebody like Houdini, which I do think has been his life story is pretty well documented from what I understand, anyway. Yeah, uh, I don't think there's a lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

So I mean there's like movies, I think like a great one is The Prestige. Have you seen that? And that's like high risk. Um let me make sure I'm it's the right film title. It's uh but it has uh Christian Bale, and that was like a great movie about um yeah, 2006 it came out. It's it's Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. Okay, and they're like competing. I mean, that to me was like such a great film. I at least I remember when I saw it 20 years ago, but there's very few like movies about magicians that I can think of offhand. Can you?

Courtney 1:02:17

No, no. Um, no, I thought about the Liberace movie, but he's not a magician, he just seems like he really could be. Um that movie's fucking weird, though, if you haven't seen that. Uh the Campbell or it's beyond the Campbell Candelabra behind the Campbell Candelabra, something like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

But yeah, it's really, really singer, yeah.

Courtney 1:02:42

No, he no, no. So he was a piano player, um, and like very whatever, but just crazy. Um, and very like vagus and flashy, and could easily have been a magician just from like a style perspective alone. But um, anyway, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. But this is the point in the podcast where like I don't even know what I where I was going or what I was talking

Grave Offerings Final Thoughts And Goodbye

Courtney 1:03:08

about. But this is the point in the podcast where we say what offering we would leave for um for Mr. David Avidon. So what specific to him grave offering would you give?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Um certainly a deck of cards, but I think also um what is something people would pickpocket? Like coins.

Courtney 1:03:33

Oh, yeah, good idea. Um it's a good thing. I feel like well, he was he had like pickpocketed people's ties sometimes, like weird stuff. I I think he went for watches, ties, and um yeah, watches, ties. I mean, I guess suspenders, um, and people don't really wear those anymore. That was like the old school thing. I wonder how he got them off though without them. There's a video that shows him kind of doing the tie thing, and it is like weird. You're like, how did they not notice that? But you're they it is like a distraction thing, and then the getting so used to being kind of jostled and touched is like did they have like a full suit on too?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Like did they have a suit jacket? Yeah, and with the suspenders too, they did.

Courtney 1:04:14

I didn't see the suspenders one. Um I didn't see that happen, but like I know that like the old the old school guys did that, like that's what he was saying. Um his mentor stole the suspenders of like two different presidents, or not presidents, Churchill and um Hoover, the one president and Churchill.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

But yeah, I think I I would maybe leave that. I would leave a deck of cards, but that's but I think I would leave like Euros, like like we have some coins from like when we go to Europe and stuff because he's traveled around the world and oh that's nice.

Courtney 1:04:48

Oh, that's that's very sweet and very thoughtful. Um I feel like I would, you know, maybe just to like be a little cheeky, just leave him like an empty wallet. Like that's a good one. I like like you got nothing to to pick, don't worry about it. Uh, it's empty. Um, like where I could play a little trick on him, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Uh like but like I just imagining his ghost walking around being like, oh, did someone just leave their wallet? How fantastic. My bread and butter, and then be like, shit, there's nothing in it. Um, that's just mean though, but like, but also it feels right. I mean, he was a pickpocket, come on. You gotta you gotta be like a little playful with uh somebody who was doing that. Yeah. I don't think he would have minded that. I don't think so. That's I think it'd be I think it'd be little little way to make him laugh. Um but yeah, so anyway, that's David Avidon, and that was the point where we we just really say goodbye, I guess, Nora.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Okay, well, I what a what an interesting man. I learned something new, as I always do for this podcast. And uh what can I say? We you know, this is a movie script idea, but I think a lot of yours are really, aren't they?

Courtney 1:06:09

A lot of the a lot of the people this one like less than others. I feel like if you had like like some of these on some of these gaps in the story where I'm like, I wonder what that was like, that moment, that thing, like I said, like the mentor thing and some other stuff. I think yeah, somebody could write something really great from that. But as far as like his actual life story, I think it's just kind of like I don't know, he got work as a pickle winning magician.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

The one that the um the song was written about Hollywoodlawn? Yes. Uh right, yeah.

Courtney 1:06:46

About the take a walk on a on the wild side. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

That could absolutely be a movie.

Courtney 1:06:52

But well, yeah, like that was like a whole part of that story. It was just like, oh, like they want they thought that they would be able to turn it into a movie, and Madonna, like optioned.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

I think I didn't sorry, I didn't listen to part two. Oh, but I only got it.

Courtney 1:07:04

Oh, there's part there's girl, there's part five. There's there's five episodes of the city. I think I got crazy one and two. Yeah, that one was like Madonna auctioned it. Uh yeah. So you'll now she's making one about herself. Of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

But so Julia Gardner's planner. Okay, sorry.

Courtney 1:07:23

Oh wow, I love her. She's so great in everything. Um, all right, well, Nora, this was so much fun. Thank you for stepping in. I forgot to say the reason that you did step in is because um Marissa's in Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico, yes. She is on vacation and she thought she would be able to record with me, but then I knew that it wasn't gonna work. She was like she was like, I my flight is at 6 30 in the morning, and yeah, I can do it. And I was like, mm-hmm and then of course she's like, I don't know what I'm doing, and I haven't packed enough and whatever. And I'm like, I of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Just I'll I'll stand in anytime. This was so fun.

Courtney 1:08:02

Yeah, no, of course, and I'm glad because now everybody can see um who our our third best friend is. Um, and it is Nora, and here she is. So, in the flesh.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

It's been uh such a privilege.

Courtney 1:08:16

Yes, well, I'm I'm very glad you could do it, and uh thanks for listening, everybody. Until next time, we'll see you later. Bye. Bye.

Listener Comments Follow And Substack

Courtney 1:08:27

Thank you so much for listening. Your support and enthusiasm for the show are the reason we keep doing it. So thanks for the kind words. They really mean the world. If you liked the show or have ideas for episodes we could or should do, please drop us a comment in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. And if you haven't yet, please follow the show and tell every cinephile and tapophile fun fact, that's a person who loves graveyards, about your new favorite niche podcast. And if you want to see transcripts, photos, and sources for our episodes, check out our Substack Dead and Kind of Famous. Dead and Kind of Famous is written, produced, and edited by Courtney Blomquist. It is hosted by Marissa Rivera and Courtney Blomquist. And special thanks to Jesse Russell, my husband, for allowing me to yammer on about the episodes before I can spill it all to Marissa. He tends to have some good insights and ideas, so thanks. Until next time, you might not be famous, but you've got a story to tell and you're not dead yet.