#21 - Raised Mormon, Tripping at Burning Man, and Everything Will Be OK

This anonymous caller doesn’t claim to know what happens when we die and he’s completely at peace with that.

In this episode, we talk about what it means to live without answers but still find meaning. From a childhood shaped by death anxiety to a life enriched by spiritual study, psychedelics, and profound loss, he shares how grief transformed his relationship with death. And how, despite not having a clear belief about what comes next, one message remains constant: Everything Will Be O.K.

We also talk about growing up Mormon, the importance of animals, and the moment a mysterious song blaring from a stereo felt like a message from the other side. Whether you believe in the stars, the soul, or nothing at all, this conversation is a reminder that peace can still exist in uncertainty.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Favorite Book: A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius
• Growing up with fear of death and learning to let it go
• Losing a beloved cat, dog, and parent
• Burning Man, acid trips, and a connected universe
• A mysterious stereo moment that felt like a message from his mom
• What it means to love an animal who’s known lack

Everything Will Be Ok Photo: Click Here

Amori - Your Mortality Companion
Visit amori.life and use code WHENWEDIE50 to get 50% off your download.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 0:36 Sponsored by Amori.life
• 2:49 Anonymous Caller
• 42:04 Voicemail

Transcript

Anonymous: [00:00:00] Hello.

Zach: Hey, how's it going?

Anonymous: Can you hear me?

Zach: I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Anonymous: I can, yeah.

Zach: Perfect. Well, yeah. How's your day going so far?

Anonymous: Uh, it's going well. Yeah. It's Friday, right?

Zach: Yeah, I can't complain about that, right?

Well, yeah. Thank you so much for being willing to do this. I'm excited to chat with you and, I know this is a question that could send us off into a longer conversation, so maybe just briefly, why you're interested in, doing this and having this conversation.

Anonymous: I've always had a pretty, robust, relationship with death and I guess more so with grief. I even graduated from a school up in Canada. it's a mystery school and one of the primary questions that we dove into was all about. How to die wise and death and dying and, grief and all of that.

Zach: That sounds awesome.

Anonymous: yeah, [00:01:00] I, yeah, I've always, for some reason I've always been able to like really handle death even though I am really empathetic and have, like I said, a really robust relationship with grief.

Zach: Well,

 I think it's probably impossible for the conversation not to, to head that way. So, I'm super excited to talk about that. but maybe before we like fully get into it, maybe you can just let us know kind of where you live, and then what your favorite book is and why.

Anonymous: Do you wanna literally know where I live?

Zach: I mean, relatively, it doesn't need to be like. I don't need to know your address. 

Anonymous: Yeah.

Zach: we're trying to keep the, the anonymity, but yeah, just, I don't know. It does state, it doesn't even have to be a city, you know, but just relatively what part of, I'm assuming you're in the United States, 

Anonymous: Yeah. I live in a beautiful little canyon in a little forest in San Diego County in California.

Zach: Well, that sounds beautiful.

Anonymous: Yeah, it's beautiful. I don't even mind telling you the name because it also, it. [00:02:00] The place is called Rainbow of All Places, and it was actually named after Mr. Rainbow in like 1879 or 97. One of the two.

Zach: Wow. It feels like you found a very special place.

Anonymous: Yeah. Yeah. It's really beautiful.

Zach: Then, uh, how about your favorite book and why?

Anonymous: Oh man. that is a tough one.

Zach: Yeah, I, I, I preface this with being like, icebreaker questions. It's like, oh yeah, these are gonna be the easy ones. And then this question ends up being super hard, so I might have to, I might have to switch it one of these days, 

Anonymous: I love a heartbreaking work of Staggering Genius

Zach: Who is it by?

Anonymous: Uh, Dave Eggers,

Zach: Okay, awesome.

Anonymous: that is the book that like really put him on the map and made him a really big deal. And the book is just, it's so incredibly written and just, it is so much fun to read.

Zach: [00:03:00] I'm definitely gonna, it'll get added to my ever-growing book list. I love that. So thank you for sharing that.

Anonymous: It's an incredible book and he's just an absolutely incredible writer. So yeah, you'll enjoy it.

Zach: Perfect. Well, thank you. so yeah, now we can get into, maybe this is the easier question for you. I don't know. what do you think happens when we die?

Anonymous: It's funny, I, of course, I thought about it a little bit knowing that we were gonna talk and I was thinking, I was half laughing to myself. 'cause I was like, well, this could be a really short conversation because honestly, you know, I don't think any of us know. But

Zach: Yeah,

Anonymous: I, I really have no idea. But I have had quite a few experiences in my life that have made me, think kind of one thing or another.

But I don't have a, a, know, a. Middle age, you know, I just don't have the slightest idea, honestly, what [00:04:00] happens after we die

Zach: so it's actually an interesting stance or whatever you want to call it, because in some ways I kind of feel like that's where I'm at too. And so maybe the follow-up question I can have for you in that is, does that create anxiety, fear? 'cause you've already mentioned that you've dealt with a lot of grief, so I'm assuming you've experienced death in your life.

 so that might be different than my experience, but, but knowing that we're kind of in a similar realm, what is your anxiety level around that then about death and dying?

Anonymous: Honestly, honestly, zero I and I. And I don't know, I, I honestly don't know how I got to this place, but because I was absolutely terrorized by death as a child, like I was, my grandfather was the first person that, no, my grandmother actually, sorry, my grandmother, [00:05:00] my grandfather had already died. I didn't get to know him.

And then my grandmother on my mother's side was the first death that I really knew of, and I just did not know what to do with it. I was, can't honestly remember how old I was, but I was young. I was like maybe 12 or something, something like that. And having a

Zach: point of life though, right? You know, it's not like you were so young, like in early elementary school or something I feel like at that age you are starting to get to a place, you know, where you're at 12. Like there's so much happening.

So that is an interesting age to have that happen.

Anonymous: Well, I guess, you know, it's funny 'cause you, you spurred something else. I do remember that when I was in elementary school, and I come from a huge, enormous family. There's 10 kids and I am, I'm the second to youngest of the 10. And I remember [00:06:00] when I was in elementary school that my, of my older siblings that were in high school had a classmate that died by suicide.

And I just, again, I did not know where to put that.

Zach: Yeah, totally.

Anonymous: I remember having a conversation with my father and saying, God, like, help me just. Figure this out. Like I just couldn't imagine that somebody could do that, you know? And it really had an effect on me to the degree that, to this very day, I still remember what it said underneath her picture in one of my siblings yearbook, I'm not gonna use her name, but it said she, the picture, she was kind of looking down in the picture and underneath it, the caption said, looks down on the world, not exactly with envy.

And I was just like, I've, I've never forgotten that. I just,

Zach: Yeah. How could you.

Anonymous: so it, yeah. So I really, I really struggled with it, but I, yeah, it's, [00:07:00] it's interesting. But yeah, my grandmother

Zach: yeah, go ahead. Sorry,

Anonymous: did I, I think I forgot your question. To be honest, I.

Zach: Oh, I, I think it's more just, well we got kind of past the initial question then kind of we're starting to go into like, you mentioned that you have like zero anxiety around it, which is different than me, you know, and so I think we were just kind of diving into your story of, also kind of what you brought up at the very beginning about grief,

Anonymous: So you have anxiety around it?

Zach: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's why I started this whole thing.

Anonymous: Oh, interesting. was it triggered by, do you mind me asking, is it, was it triggered by a death or anything that, or just the anxiety?

Zach: I don't mind asking.

 I love that you're shooting back at me and having questions for me. So I would say, you know, a lot of people in my life, kind of equate it to my, there was someone in my life that, had a pretty severe cancer diagnosis, a year, year, two years ago.

But, and that definitely played a part into it. but [00:08:00] it was even before that, I woke up and it was like on my 35th birthday. And I don't know why 35 had this like significance, but I just felt like 35 is when I'm gonna know a little bit more of what I want my life to look like and not like, I think I was old enough to know.

I'm not gonna have it figured out. I'm not gonna have this grand plan. But it was just like, I think at that point I have enough real world data, And I think I very much realized that 35, I was like, okay, I don't have as much dialed in as I want or, you know, would like, but I also think I realized I don't know if I'm on the right path at all.

And so I kind of had this like little midlife crisis, which then kind of started, you know, started me thinking about, well, 35, you know, if I double that, you know, that's getting pretty close to life expectancy for men. and so I think I just started kind of going down this rabbit hole of, and then had these kind of, I guess, existential [00:09:00] attacks.

 I just felt like, I don't know, this intense fear around dying and death and it was like, okay, I could,

Anonymous: Do you have dreams?

Zach: I don't remember my dreams. I don't really remember my dreams that much. so it wasn't necessarily like I was waking up and being like, oh my God, I'm dying in all of my dreams or whatever.

It was more just like, you know, my waking thoughts were like kind of pushing towards like, you know, you're gonna die. You know you're gonna die. And it was like, okay. And I've had moments of like, of that throughout my life. And so this time I was like, okay, I need to actually start dealing with this kind of fear and anxiety.

And so that's kind of how this all came about. 

Anonymous: It's interesting because I'm not quite two year, two, twice your age. Not quite. And I lost my mother at your age,

Zach: And that must have been a big

Anonymous: you know. Oh, that's by far my biggest one. Yeah. that and also, a kitty that I, when I bought this property that I live on, it [00:10:00] came with two kitties that lived outside and I. One of them immediately took to me and was just, you know, she just flirted with me all day long and just would plop down excited to see me. And the boy I'd never, ever saw, he was just like, I saw him like twice in three months running away. And so I'd see just his back as he's running away. And I, I was like, is he ever gonna introduce himself to me?

And then, you know, three months later he, I was sitting down on the ground and I had some food and I had the other kitty with me. And I was just kind of singing and, sitting with the other kitty and all of a sudden I see the boy coming over and I was just like, okay, I'm not gonna look at him. I'm not gonna do anything.

And he came over and just started rubbing all against my back. And I was just like, oh my gosh. And he and I had the most beautiful love affair that I. Have ever [00:11:00] imagined, and I've never been a cat guy either. I mean, I love all animals, but I was always a dog guy. I always had dogs and he and I were just inseparable.

He, I could be like leaf blowing and he would be laying across my shoulders just purring.

Zach: amazing.

Anonymous: Yeah, just, we just had this relationship and then he got taken by coyotes one day and it just devastated me. Oh man. It was, you know, it with my mother. It was kind of a long goodbye. She was, she had a very rare, strange, they never were able to identify it thing where the tissue around her vertebra was dying.

And so as it went vertebra to vertebra, it was like. Knock out a different part of her body. So it started with one leg went to the other leg, which is, you know, your vertebra control, all those things. One leg and the other leg. Your arm, your arm, and then your breathing. And so it [00:12:00] was kind of taking my mother slowly over a period of a year or maybe even a year and a half.

It's interesting. I just, I don't have a, like a super crisp recollection of timing related to, to my mother's death, but, so it was a, it was a devastatingly hard year and a half, but I don't know, I still didn't think she was gonna die when I was that age, you know? But, but the kitty, oh, flannel not having any warning and not just, it just. I still to this. I mean, I can feel it in my body right now as I talk about it. I just, it was such an amazing, love affair. Just ridiculous. Ridiculous.

I lost it. I lost my dog not long before I lost flannel the kitty. And, that was, she was 16 and a half, and that was, that was really, really [00:13:00] hard. But I, I don't know what it was about the kitty that we just, just something different about it. I think it was, I say to my friends, I think it was maybe related to loving and loving an animal that has known lack, because it was a kitty that was feral originally, and then it still lived outside, and then I brought it inside and it spent the last three years, I think it was, no, it was longer than three years, five years, just like on my chest, you know? And

Zach: had to, you had to earn that, the bond, and then when the bond was created, it was like unbreakable.

Anonymous: It was, 

 this is what the vet told me, and it wasn't even my vet, but she told me when I had to put my dog down, my dog's name was Dr. Love. And the vet said, you might be thinking that Dr. Love is thinking, why are you doing this to me? But she's not, that concept is not even in [00:14:00] her brain.

She's just here with you. She just loves you. That's it.

Zach: Ugh.

Anonymous: There's nothing, nothing more, nothing less. And man, that really helped me through it

Zach: I mean, I'm like tear tearing up. Just hearing that like, I mean, our pets, our animals are just so special. They're so amazing. 

Anonymous: Well, they really, I like, they really teach us, you know, they're the source of just pure, unconditional love and, that doesn't always come easy in life.

Zach: Yeah. It really doesn't. Yeah, so you, you got hit with just a bunch of loss all at once

Anonymous: yeah. I did. And then I also, like, I've lost my father, my father. So my, my mother died when, I'm assuming you're 35 or right around there. My mother

Zach: 37. Now.

Anonymous: okay. My mother died when I was 34 and my father died, 12 years ago. Interestingly enough, on this one of my friend group text threads, [00:15:00] yesterday, the sister of a friend that we lost, she was part of our Burning Man camp, and she died 12 years ago.

And yesterday was her birthday and she was only 27 when she died. And she was one of those magical humans that just is like a supernova. She just lights up every space that she's in. She's just so fully living life and doing all the things with joy and weirdness and all of it. And so yesterday and then today, and I kind of had forgotten I put it on my calendar, but I'd kind of forgotten that we were gonna talk.

and then just today people were still talking about Cheryl and sharing all these things about Cheryl just being, you know, such a bright light. I remembered that, and this, this might be comforting to you 'cause this is one thing that I definitely know about death. Absolutely know about death one of the most sort of [00:16:00] famous pictures in our whole huge friend group, about Cheryl was taking at another friend's three day mountain wedding where she painted, hand, painted all these little signs and scattered them all throughout the forest. And there's a picture of Cheryl with one of those signs around her neck, and it says everything will be okay.

that's the one thing that I feel absolutely certain of with death, is everything will be okay. And I mean that also for me, I feel like, I don't know, I've had some, I've had an experience, a few experiences where I do feel like I'm gonna. See my mother again or somehow interact with, at least interact with my mother again.

but I don't know. I don't know. I will tell you this, that I was raised Mormon and so Mormons have a very specific thing, you know, thing of like, what, what happens after you die? [00:17:00] And I'm no longer Mormon.

I haven't been for a long time, but, and I definitely don't believe in their, um,

Zach: believe

Anonymous: apologies if you're a Mormon.

Zach: not, I'm, I'm, I'm nothing.

Anonymous: Okay. Yeah, I'm nothing either, except I feel like I have my own church. It's the Church of Love,

Zach: the church of Zach and it's got one member.

Anonymous: Exactly. But, Mormons believe that, like, based on what you do in this life, you're gonna go to like one, one of three tiers of heaven. Heaven has three tiers and only the top tier, which is called the celestial kingdom, is where you get to live with God. And interestingly enough, you can only get there in Mormonism if you pay your tithing your whole life and if you're married to a woman, which is pretty interesting.

 so yeah, it's, um, I don't know. It's, I definitely don't believe in the, like man in [00:18:00] the sky version of, That I'm gonna go meet God after I die in the sky and he's gonna be like, oh yeah, you were like a pretty good guy, but you're still only going to the Middle Kingdom, you know, enjoy it.

Zach: Yeah. I have a hard time with like it being a test. 

Anonymous: I am totally with you. I've always hated tests anyway, so why would I want life to be like a test? You know? I just, I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's just a control system. You know? It's like, here's a religion that, and I think most religions are like this. I don't know.

I, they could be, but I have no idea. But, you know, here's a religion where. they give you all these promises as, as, as long as you do this and this and this and this and this, including give them a bunch of your money your whole life. But they don't ever have to give any of their promises until after you die.

And it's just like, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna go for that

Zach: it's an interesting system.

Anonymous: Yeah. It's very interesting. I had an interesting conversation 'cause my [00:19:00] parents were, you know, always really active Mormons and my father was pretty high up in the Mormon church and um, and I remember having a conversation late in my father's life after my mother had already died and I was saying, dad, what do you think?

Do you believe in resurrection? because that's, you know, the Mormon thing is you die and then you get resurrected when Jesus returns. And, and I was like, 'cause I definitely don't believe in resurrection. I mean, we are on a giant rock hurdling through space circling a giant fireball and we're the whole Milky Way galaxies traveling.

Something like 1.3 million miles an hour.

Zach: And is only a fraction of everything else, too.

Anonymous: exactly. And it's like a, a minuscule like grain of sand on the beach size fraction of everything else. So I'm like, I don't believe in this kind of earth centric [00:20:00] human centric. System where, you know, I'm going to die and go up and have a meeting with God where he shows me this book of all the things I did, and then, you know, then I go to one of those, one of the places based on that.

So yeah, I'm, but my dad said he believed, he said, he didn't want to, like, my dad was so awesome. He didn't wanna dishonor my own belief and what I was thinking, even though I, you know, I really disappointed him when I left Mormonism, but he totally came around. He was fine, but he said to me, I think I'm gonna stick with the resurrection.

And I was like, okay, that's cool. Well come, come find me if there, if it does happen, you know?

Zach: seriously.

The one thing I do love that you said was like. And again, I think that's part of this whole project for me is kind of searching for some, I say answers, but it's like none of this is ever gonna get answered. So I guess maybe it's some peace. and so I love that. Just, you know, your thought of, I do know that it's gonna be okay, [00:21:00] and that sounds like that's enough

Anonymous: that's one

Zach: which is I feel like I, that's where I need to get, is that that's okay.

And I think I'm getting there. I'm glad that I'm diving in.

Anonymous: interestingly enough for a topic that is so hard to define and has so many definitions based on where you grow up geo geographically and what religion you're taught and all, like, all the things, you know, that is the one thing that I feel absolutely certain of is that everything will be okay.

I just feel that. Lately, I've been thinking that when we die, that I've just, I've been watching a lot of space, space videos on YouTube. I just totally geek out on it. And I kind of think that all the souls, and that includes bugs and animals and plants, all of it, all the souls, whatever, anything that's alive is the stars.

And that every single [00:22:00] burst of light that you see up in the sky is a person that's not just a person, but a soul that's been alive somehow, that was somehow animated in this existence.

Zach: It's like a cosmic graveyard, but in the most beautiful way.

Anonymous: Yeah. I also, I can tell you one other, well, actually two other experiences that have sort of played into kind of my, sort of peaceful feeling around death and also just my kind of overall, I don't really know, you know? I took acid at Burning Man one year, 

I highly recommend it, by the way, do it with people that you love and that love you, and do it in a beautiful setting, like a forest or something, and it will transform you.

It is so otherworldly that, but I. I always explain it this way, like I've explained it to all of my Mormon siblings this way. I've been like, so on acid, I saw a painting, at a festival that I went to and it was like [00:23:00] 15 feet long

Zach: Oh God,

Anonymous: and it was white, all white. And I saw it completely sober. And then I saw it on, on acid and completely sober. On the far end, there was a painting of a little girl's face and in the center of the canvas, you know, seven and a half feet in or whatever, there was a painting of the same little girl face, but now she's like middle aged or, or 40 or something.

And then at the far end there was the same girl and now she was like elderly. And it was just those three paintings. And on acid, I saw all the faces of the girl all the way along.

Zach: Oh wow.

Anonymous: So acid has this weird, I don't know, I have no idea how it works, but it's, you see the energy of things. So like if you're looking at a picture of a horse, like the horse is moving, like it's scalloping, and if you look at a windmill, [00:24:00] it's spinning.

It's a really, really strange thing. But, so I did this acid trip at Burning Man one year, and during the trip, acid makes you also experience all kinds of things. You're probably gonna cry, you're gonna laugh your brains out, you're gonna have all these experiences. But one thing that I always experience is it makes me have this kind of look at myself from outside of myself in the universe, you know?

And I had this. I don't know. I've, I've said it was kind of a weird vision or something, whatever it was, that we are all, everything. So I am you, you are me.

Zach: the connectedness of

Anonymous: God. Yeah. I am my kitty. I am the tree. I am the cloud. I am all of it. And we're all of, we get to experience all of those things. and it felt so accurate to me in the moment.

And then I was sharing it after with a friend that was also doing acid at the same [00:25:00] time. And she said, wow, I think that's so interesting. I'll bet it's all happening at the same time. And I was like, oh, oh, wow. And that just like really like burst me open. And so it made me, I. Spend the next, you know, 15 years since it happened.

Just wondering if like, maybe that is how it works. I don't know. Maybe we're all of those things and it is weird because it seems like we do have the ability to like analyze all this, you know,

Zach: yeah,

Anonymous: I don't know.

Zach: it's just outside of the, uh, I don't know. I've been listening and like reading a lot about consciousness being like a fundamental, aspect of the universe versus, like, there was something I listened to that recently said that, you know, consciousness is actually the bottom level instead of, right now we look at physics as the bottom level of everything.

and that kind of plays into the connectedness, but, one of the things that comes up in a lot of this [00:26:00] conversation is just kind of the materialistic aspect of science now. and how, if it's, if it's not measurable, then it's like pseudoscience. It's not real. and so we've gotten into this place and, you know, and I think that's part of my issues around, you know, I didn't grow up religious.

Like I mentioned, I think I've been to church three or four times in my life, maybe, 

Anonymous: you're lucky I.

Zach: I do, you know, I, I hear, you know, stories from friends who grew up in the church and you know, definitely some of them have, you know, traumatic experiences and stuff. But the one thing that like, I think grass is always greener.

We don't know each other is trauma. And I'm not saying I'm traumatized by not going to church or anything, but. I think there's an aspect of it that opens you up to spirituality. And I think I'm just, even right now, like I don't even really know what that means for me. I don't know what, having a spiritual practice, even though I've been like meditating for two years, someone asked me recently, I was like, do you believe that you have a spiritual practice?

And I was like, [00:27:00] uh, I'm not sure. And I've had to think about that a lot. so I think it opens you up to the possibility of more, but I think I've been trapped in almost more of this materialistic side of things. 

And I kind of think that's what I've fallen into for, Basically 35 years of my life where it's like, well, if you can't prove it, then it doesn't make any sense. And now through my meditation practice, some of the stuff that you're talking about while you're on acid, 

 I'm like. Probably nowhere near to the extent of that experience for you, but I do feel a lot more connected to the world around me, and I've been thinking a lot about, in a weird way, we are solid, but we are just a bunch of atoms that are all moving around and

Anonymous: And we're, and we're also like 99, I think it's like 98 or 99%.

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. It's something crazy like that. So it's like, and it's probably not much different than, I mean the makeup's different a little bit, but it's [00:28:00] like we're really not that much different than a rock or a tree.

Anonymous: really not. I think it's identical. In fact, I read a thing from a, or no, I watched a video of a scientist talking about that he wanted to take all of building blocks of life, carbon, hydrogen, whatever they are. I don't know what they all are, but he wanted to take all of those things and put 'em in like a big test tube and see if he could create life.

And so he took all the things that we know of as the building blocks of life, and he stuck them all in this beaker or test tube. He just watched them and they didn't do anything like week after week after week, but nothing happened. And so he had the idea, he is like, maybe I need to shoot some electricity through 'em.

And so he shot electricity through it, and it like started changing like within an hour it started oozing and turning brown and [00:29:00] changing and growing and everything. And so I've, I've thought for a long time after I saw that, that maybe somehow the electrical system, whatever that is, plays a part in us being alive or, or being dead because I, I know for certain that when my mother was dying, I was with her.

That's the only person I've ever been with that was dying and died. she was so clearly in there, her body, and then she wasn't.

Zach: yeah.

Anonymous: So clearly.

Zach: Yeah. That's definitely how it was with my grandpa too.

Anonymous: Yeah. It's interesting. I, yeah, she just, there's just no doubt in my mind that she was just not there anymore. That whatever that animating the energy or whatever it is, the electricity or something was, she was off.

You know?

Zach: Yeah. 

Anonymous: I kept having these dreams after I was really, really, really tight with my mom, just like glued to [00:30:00] her hip. And I kept having these dreams and in all the dreams after she died. And I kept having these dreams and. In all the dreams, she was either dead or dying.

And I was just like, oh gosh, this is such a bummer. I don't, I just don't want to keep having all these dreams. And, but I kept having 'em. And then there was a, I don't, you probably don't know of this, I can't even remember what it was called. I think it was called Crossing Over. There was a show on

Zach: of it.

Anonymous: Yeah.

Where a medium would, they pull, they get people in the audience and they say I'm getting like a roof.

Does anybody are, does anyone know a roof? And someone will be like, oh yeah, me, I, you know, or. Stuff like that. And so I was watching that show one night and I was really, really missing my mother. It was not very long after she had died.

And like I mentioned, I mean it was like within a year or so and I kept having those dreams where she was dead or dying and, and so I was watching that show and I was like so earnestly, just like [00:31:00] I felt like I was participating in the show, even though I was just home watching it, really calling in my mother because I just wanted to know that she was okay because I just, you know, I was so tired of those dreams and. long story short, I, the hutch that my TV was in, uh, I had a golden retriever at the time and the doors of the hutch would, my golden retriever would bonker head on the doors of the hutch if I ever left them open. So I never ever, ever left the doors of the hutch open ever. And I watched that show and I was really, really earnestly just wishing that I could have an experience knowing that my mother was okay. And I went to bed that night and at midnight I heard this huge, loud music and I was like, what is that? And I go downstairs and my hutch doors are open and my stereo is playing on like such incredible [00:32:00] volume. The neighbors probably heard it and it was a song. It was like a song from a CD that I had, and it was all about, uh, these cowboys riding off into the sunset.

And, and I was thinking, oh, that's so bizarre. Like, so strange. And I didn't really think all that much of it. And then, but I was like, I know I didn't leave that on. And I know I didn't have the volume like that. And I know I didn't leave the hutch doors open. And the very next night, same exact thing, midnight, full volume, warp speed volume doors of the hutch open the song playing.

So I was like, oh, wow. I wonder, I should look at the lyrics of the song, this song. And I looked at the lyrics and it said, and my mother had a lot of sort of cowboy imagery around her life because she grew up in Montana on a big ranch. And, in the song it was talking about that I'm a cowboy and I, I have to write away, but I'll tell you the thing that I'm missing.

That thing is you. And that [00:33:00] just. I just somehow, I just knew that that was from my mother. And it's weird 'cause then I looked into it a little bit and I did. There is a lot of people that have sort of experiences where energetically, the person that's died comes through some kind of electronic something or other and Yeah, that would, yeah, exactly.

And so, but I felt really certain that, that was my mother. And then I never had another dream of her where she was death dead or dying. And I, I had a lot of dreams. I still have a lot of dreams. In fact, I just went through a period where I called my little sister and I'm like, I don't know, I might be dying.

And she's like, what? And I said, I'm having so many dreams with mom and you're in almost all of them as well. And just one after the next night, after night for like a few months. Not every night or anything, but a lot of dreams with my [00:34:00] mother. So I don't know. I don't really think I'm dying,

Zach: gonna say the two of you should not go on a road trip together. You and your sister.

Anonymous: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Zach: Well, yeah. Thank you for sharing those stories. 

Anonymous: I have a, I have a recommendation for you.

Zach: Okay.

Anonymous: it's a podcast and it's only six episodes and it's, I can't remember, I think it's called Where Is My Brain?

Zach: Okay.

Anonymous: And it's really, really interesting.

The guy is talking, it's really all about what is consciousness? Because yeah. Because I feel like it's really hard to separate sort of death and consciousness

Zach: yeah, it, I think it's almost impossible.

Anonymous: But this guy is a very studious student on conscious, the brain and the science of the brain and what happens, you know? It's a really, really interesting six episodes and I have taken so much comfort from, 'cause I've, always felt [00:35:00] really connected to the universe. Like I feel really connected to bugs and to animals and to people and to trees. And I just have, feel this real connection with all of them. And I don't mean it in an airy fairy way.

Like when I'm driving down my canyon to go to my house, I'll get this like big blast of like coyote energy that I feel in my body. And then I'll look, there'll be a coyote, it'll like run right in front of me and I'm just like, whoa. And it happens all the time, like with bunnies or with an owl or something.

And so I've always had this connectedness to, sort of energy and I. This podcast was really, really powerful to kind of help me formulate a new way of thinking about consciousness.

Zach: oh sweet. I'll definitely check that out. 'cause I just finished, I think she called it an audio documentary. I'll definitely check that out.

Anonymous: Yeah, it's really good. Really, really highly recommended and it, especially [00:36:00] because he comes at it from a scientific place,

Zach: Yeah.

Anonymous: like really scientific place. I'm like a kind of, I, I've always, I don't know, I think I've always been a bit of an airy fairy kind of guy. Just a just weird, my own brand of sexuality,

Zach: Nothing wrong with that.

Anonymous: science geek as well. Like I love science and I really geek out on it. So if there's like science that can support some of my weird, very farness, oh, sign me up.

Zach: Yeah, totally. Totally. Well, thank you so much for sharing everything and, and being willing to do this. I had a wonderful time chatting with you and I love that you shot back at me a little bit and asked me some questions, so I appreciate that too.

Anonymous: Yeah, I'll be curious. Call me again some other time. If you have a breakthrough on your path, I'd love to hear about it. And it doesn't, you can record or it doesn't have to be,

Zach: Yeah, I was gonna say [00:37:00] that is, uh, assuming a big if, if I have a big breakthrough. But, I think, I think I'm on my way. We'll see.

Anonymous: Yeah. I think you are too. I feel it. You can't do the kind of work that you're doing and. who knows, I don't want to say that you're gonna arrive somewhere. but I just, I just know that your world is gonna expand,

Zach: I do know after this conversation, I knew have a new like goal line, which is just, everything's gonna be fine. And believing

Anonymous: Oh, wait till, wait till I tell my friends that. Oh my gosh. Uh, I'm gonna text you after we hang up, if it's okay on the same number that we connected. I'm gonna text you a picture of Sherry. Everything is will be okay.

Zach: Yes. Yeah, please do. And yeah, I'd love that.

Anonymous: Yeah. 

Zach: Well, thank you so

Anonymous: was. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Zach: Yeah. Have a good rest of your day.

Anonymous: you. Bye-bye.