When We Die Talks

#41 - Talking About Death Without Falling Apart: Where Grief and Laughter Coexist

• Zach Ancell • Episode 41

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Many people are curious about conversations around death but hesitate to listen because they worry it will feel emotionally overwhelming.

This episode challenges that assumption.

In this anonymous call, the conversation begins with an expectation of tears. What unfolds instead is something more layered. Grief is present. Loss is real. And still, laughter, warmth, and unexpected lightness find their way into the room.

If you’ve been curious about this podcast but unsure where to begin, this is a gentle place to start.

In This Episode:

  • Expecting to cry and discovering laughter instead
  • Grief that makes room for warmth, not just weight
  • Green Eggs and Ham goes completely off the rails
  • Why some laptops should be deleted immediately, no questions asked
  • Letting uncertainty exist without needing answers

Book Recommendations: Rebecca  (Daphne du Maurier); The Picture of Dorian Gray  (Oscar Wilde); Green Eggs and Ham  (Dr. Seuss)

If you’d like to watch this conversation instead of just listening, you can find the video version on YouTube.

A Note On The Ending
Instead of a voicemail, this episode closes with a piece of writing shared by a caller from Episode 40. It’s a quiet, beautiful reflection that felt important to include here.

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The Death Deck: Talk About the Future
A Lively Party Game to Share Stories and Beliefs

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About When We Die Talks: When We Die Talks is a podcast built around anonymous conversations about death, loss, and how contemplating mortality shapes the way we live. If you’re new here, start with the Episode Guide. It’s designed to help you find conversations that match where you’re at—curiosity, grief, hesitation, or openness.

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Want to share your thoughts? Leave a voicemail at 971-328-0864 and share what you believe happens when we die. Messages may be featured in a future episode. If you’d like to have a full conversation, you can apply to be an anonymous caller at whenwedietalks.com.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, Jesus. If I start crying, you're gonna have to excuse me.

SPEAKER_03:

No, you are allowed to cry and feel the emotions and and everything.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh God. I was engaged five years. He passed away in 2024. And it came so fast. There were no signs of him being ill or anything. We kind of did have a talk about what if, and it just got me thinking once everything was settled and over and done with, here I am at 63, and I'm thinking I don't got much time left.

SPEAKER_03:

It all starts with a single question asked to an anonymous caller. What do you think happens when we die? And from there, the conversation goes in completely unexpected directions. Some speak with certainty, others with doubt, some are still trying to make sense of it all. I'm Zach Ancel, and this is When We Die Talks, a podcast about death, meaning, and how that shapes the way we live. This podcast was born from my own fears around death and the need to talk about. Thank you for being a part of this conversation. I'm glad you're here. This episode is brought to you by The Death Deck. Want to talk to your family members about the future but don't know how to start? The Death Deck is a lively game that uses multiple choice questions and a dose of humor to help start conversations about death, dying, and illness. Learn new and interesting things about your friends and family members while becoming prepared for the future. And new this fall, the Death Deck introduces the Dementia Deck, a planning tool to talk about the type of care and treatment you'd want if you're living with dementia. All Death Deck products are available at thedeathdeck.com. Hey, welcome back or welcome here if this is your first time. And happy new year if you're listening at the start of 2026. It feels meaningful to be continuing this project into another year. If you've ever felt curious about conversations around death, but worried they might be too heavy, this episode might surprise you. You really don't even need to be in a strong place to listen to this. The person I'm talking to comes in expecting to cry. It's actually one of the first things our caller mentions. Instead, we find moments of laughter. Not because anything is avoided, but because humor becomes a way of staying human alongside grief. What follows is a conversation that holds loss without being consumed by it. Warm, hilarious, and lighter than you might expect. If you've ever needed proof that talking about death doesn't have to flatten you, this is a wonderful place to start. Let's get into the call. I hope you enjoy. Hey, how's it going?

SPEAKER_07:

I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm good. Well, thank you so much for being willing to jump on the phone with a complete stranger. It it always shocks me.

SPEAKER_07:

What made you decide to do something like this?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, it started about three years ago. I would say it was a midlife crisis. And I just I just wanted to do something to kind of face my fears around death. And so it started as just a voicemail that people would call into, and then I decided that I actually wanted to have conversations with people. And so it's kind of morphed into this.

SPEAKER_07:

I think I remember seeing I remember seeing um leave a voicemail.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

On Instagram.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, that was probably me too.

SPEAKER_07:

That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm doing a lot of weird stuff, but yeah, mostly just trying to explore my fears around death. So that's why I'm here. I oh Lord. I'm curious why you're here, why you wanted to have a conversation about death.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, Jesus. If I start crying, you're gonna have to excuse me.

SPEAKER_03:

No, you are allowed to cry and feel the emotions and and everything.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh god. I was engaged five years. He passed away in 2024.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_07:

It's not your fault, but thank you. And it came so fast. And thinking back, there were no signs of him being ill or anything. But we kind of did have a talk about what if. And it just got me thinking once everything was settled and over and done with, he was cremated. I'm living in New I live in New York, he was in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

And once I got back home to New York City, I started questioning what happens because I am 63. And you know, and I'm realizing as I've gotten I never thought of it when I was in my 30s or my twenties or my 40s or even my 50s.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I never thought of it. You know, his passing, and he was only 54 when he passed.

SPEAKER_01:

So young.

SPEAKER_07:

Here I am at 60. Yeah, he was quite young. Here I am at 63, and I'm thinking, I don't got much time left. As odd as that sounds.

SPEAKER_03:

It does. Here's the thing nothing at this point sounds that odd to me anymore.

SPEAKER_07:

You know, it's I I've you are the I can imagine the I can imagine the conversations.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh yeah. You're the 42nd person I've talked to anonymously. And then I've had other interviews before that, and then I've had dozens and dozens of conversations that haven't been recorded. So nothing actually really sounds that strange to me anymore.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. You just start thinking, you know, as another candle is added to the birthday cake, yeah. If you celebrate, yeah, it's like, you know, who's gonna do this, who's gonna do that? And then you start wondering who's gonna take care of your things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Who has to be notified? It just started a whole roll down a deep hill, like what is gonna happen and what happens in the afterlife. If there is an afterlife, that's another kettle of fish.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Well, we're gonna get into that in a second, I think, possibly. So before before we kind of go in that direction, I feel like there's already I'm already very intrigued and excited to see where this conversation goes. You already answered one of the questions. You already answered one of my questions off the bat that I usually ask, which is where do you live? So you said you're calling from New York.

SPEAKER_07:

New York City. Born and raised.

SPEAKER_03:

Have you lived there your whole life?

SPEAKER_07:

Uh yes, I have.

SPEAKER_03:

So one of the few, uh true native.

SPEAKER_07:

Yes. So myself and my younger brother, we were born and raised in New York City. And in fact, I am still living in the apartment where I was raised in.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, wow. That's amazing. The other question that I normally ask to kind of get to know you before we kind of dive into the full conversation is what's your favorite book and why?

SPEAKER_07:

Oh god, there are two.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that works.

SPEAKER_07:

Rebecca by Daphne Mornay. It's kind of like a murder mystery.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I'm I'm amazing.

SPEAKER_07:

And I know I'm buttering her. I yeah. Rebecca is one, and this is gonna sound so funny. Green Eggs and Ham by the Susan.

SPEAKER_03:

Nice. I love that.

SPEAKER_07:

There's one more book.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

The picture of Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

And what the movie is good, the book is better.

SPEAKER_03:

That's usually how it goes, isn't it? What what makes these kind of your favorites? What stands out about them?

SPEAKER_07:

I consider them classics personally. Rebecca is more of a murder type, haunted house, evil type of mystery. Dorian Gray is just seeing somebody slowly go from a narcissist to excuse my language, a freaking murderer. Just to continue living. Nothing in the world excites him anymore. He sold his soul to the devil. He can do practically anything he wants, and you decide to commit murder and decide that's what you want to keep doing. It just brings up a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Which is a great thing for a book to do.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, it made when I first when I first saw the movie, like I said, I enjoyed it. It was alright. I read the book and I literally sat, you know, in my bedroom just thinking, what the hell? It's kind of like, would you do that if you were able to?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I don't think I would.

SPEAKER_07:

I don't think I could either, but still, it's like I don't know if I want that experience of taking somebody's life. I never want. No.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not gonna put that on my bucket list for sure.

SPEAKER_07:

No, only if it's to save somebody's life that I can understand it, but just for the hell of it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. No. Well, I uh green eggs hammer. I was gonna say Green Egg's ham. I'm excited for this one.

SPEAKER_07:

I have a daughter, she's 30 something. It was my daughter's favorite book. But as I said, my fiance was living in North Carolina, so there were a lot of phone calls between us on his days off, and we had a free moment and we would talk. And we had never physically met until five years ago. I've known him for 20 years.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07:

And we never physically met until five years ago, and it was a whirlwind from there. But during our conversations, he got deadly quiet and he goes, Why do I have a feeling that you could even make green eggs and ham sound sexy? So I literally took him up on that offer and I started reading it to him. And he's like, I gotta call you back in like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02:

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_07:

I'm like, he goes, Oh, honey, you don't know what your voice does to me sometimes. I'm like, but green eggs and ham, it couldn't have been anything erotic.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean Hey, green eggs and ham.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, that's so amazing. Ended up being one of my I never I haven't told I have not told anybody that's the beauty of this.

SPEAKER_03:

We are we we're anonymous, so or you're anonymous, so you get to just to share these things and feel completely comfortable doing it. So I I'm I'm so grateful that you shared that with me because that is so such an amazing story. And and that is the the beauty of this podcast or the just these calls. I literally never know where they're gonna go. When you mentioned grenades and ham, that is not what I would have guessed of why it was your favorite. But it is such a wonderful story, and especially with what you shared about, you know, losing your fiance, like that's such a beautiful memory, and like in such an amazing way. So I'm I'm so grateful that you were willing to share that.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, it's little things because I have a copy of the book in my bookshelf.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And every once in a while while I'll look at it and I'll just start laughing like a bleeding idiot. Oh that's amazing. We really have this conversation.

SPEAKER_03:

I love it. Well, now we can kind of get into the kind of big question of of all of this. Oh Lord. And see where it takes us. I just love your energy and everything. So we can kick it off with what do you think happens when we die?

SPEAKER_07:

Oof. That is not an easy question. Oh my god. I was born and raised Catholic.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

And there's a whole ideology of you die, you go to heaven, or you go to hell, depending on how bad or good your life is. You go to hell. Okay, Dante's Inferno. Heaven, you get to see your family members, and that's the way I was raised in the 60s, 70s. That was the thought.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I kind of became, I shouldn't say I kind of became I became disillusioned by the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

You know, with their policies and everything else. And I sat down one day, or didn't sit down, but it hit me one day that the way everything was from a man's point of view.

SPEAKER_03:

Shocker.

SPEAKER_07:

That's going into yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Seems to happen that way a lot.

SPEAKER_07:

Let's face it, history is often recorded that way. It's always by a man's point of view, and it's always the winner's point of view. Never the underdog, never the women. And it just kind of irked me. And you know, that was my beginning of the disillusion with the church. And it's like, okay, so what does happen? I would kind of like to think, a small part of me, that I will see my family members that have passed away. But then again, I have a little faith in reincarnation, and I also believe that nothing will happen. And as one person, I read it somewhere, somebody said from Stardust decay, from Stardust he will return.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Oof. That's it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. That's where I kind of come at it, and that's why I kind of started this was I feel like nothing happens. And I don't know. I think maybe I'm shifting some of my beliefs, but I guess my question from that is Yeah, the beliefs are always changing, right?

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, the beliefs are always, always changing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

As I said, I lost my fiance. I lost my mother eight years ago, and she just went quietly in her sleep. That was it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And for a while, with the death of both of them, it was kind of weird. Now it's really gonna get weird. I'm sorry about this. I'm taking it in a whole different level.

SPEAKER_01:

You're okay.

SPEAKER_07:

Think little things kept happening in my mother's bedroom.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

I would find I wouldn't go in there. I didn't go in there after she her body was taken away and everything. I didn't go in there for a while. But then I realized I had to go in there. I go in there and I'm seeing things have been moved a little bit. And I'm like, okay, this is a little creepy. And that was my dog. With my fiance, and it was kind of the same thing. As I said, he breaks away. I come back to New York, and for like the first three to four months, I started smelling cigarette smoke. I don't smoke. Nobody in my apartment. I'm the only one here. I don't smoke. The dog doesn't smoke. I did not smoke. He was a smoker.

SPEAKER_03:

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_07:

And the thing is, nobody in the building is like the smell that cigarette smoke smell does carry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I know that. But I can have my windows wide open summer day, and all of a sudden I get a slight lift of cigarette smoke, and I'm like, what the hell is this? So I don't know, it's it's him paying me a visit?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Or if I'm just kind of losing my mind.

SPEAKER_03:

But I don't I don't mean to make light of it, but if at any point you come to your house and green eggs and ham is like knocked off the shelf, you definitely know it's him.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. Oh, I would literally be like, what is like, dude, what are you doing? You need to stop. That happened, I swear to God I would scream. Because I do have it's when I came back to New York City, his family, his, you know, we were not married. We were talking about getting married, which made it really hit harder. We had gotten our rings, we were trying to pick a date. His family and I, we all agreed straight across the board it was gonna be a cremation. I was able to stay in his home and gather my things that I had brought down there throughout the five years, and I took some of his things back with me. Not everything, just a few things that remind me of him. Yeah. But every once in a while, it's like I'm smelling smoke. It's like, dude, you gotta stop this. Or I'll see a tall sh you know how sometimes you see something out of the corner of your eye?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And when you look, it's suddenly gone, or you could swear there's somebody standing in a hallway. Yeah, it's a like extra sale.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_07:

That's happened. I have a very long hallway in my apartment. From my bedroom, I can see straight into my front door.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_07:

Grace of security. There have been times oh, it is literally. I can tell if some, you know, somebody walks into my apartment, it's like, okay, who's there?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Which is how I used to keep track of my mother. Even when she passed, on occasion, I would see, like, out of the corner of my eye, a small shadow. Just kind of like stand there. But then when I look, it'd be gone. And then when he passed, I would see it. He was six feet eight inches.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, he was a tall motherfucker. He was six eight. I'm only five two.

SPEAKER_00:

Dang.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. And I, you know, I would either see a short little shadow, short shadow, because my mother was about my height. And then when he passed away, it took a while, and it still happens on occasion. I'll see a taller shadow out of the corner of my eye. And I'm like, are you visiting? Is my mind playing tricks on me? Going back to your original question, what do I think happens? I've got no clue. Like I said, I'd like to believe reincarnation is a thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

A small tiny part wants to think that there is a high, I'm not gonna say the three-letter word. I will say a higher being exists, or it could just end up part of the cosmos.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. How do you feel about? I guess I'd call, I don't know if visits is the right word for these kind of like encounters that you've had. But how does that play into your beliefs a little bit? Like, does that make you feel a little bit more one way or another? I don't know. I think that would like lead me away from this kind of start us to start us thing a little bit of just like, hey, you know, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, it's no, it does kind of it has made me question, what if, you know, we do not just vanish?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

What if we do kind of still linger here to just show people we're still here? We can still kind of quote unquote see you. We just cannot touch you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

We can observe you just to let you know, hey, when you were a kid, if you ever got hit in the head by a friend with like their finger, a finger flick in the back of their leg, like hello, yeah. Are you thinking?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, come on.

SPEAKER_07:

It's like a little wake up call. I'm here, I'm still here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Thank you. Yes. It's a little wake-up call. It doesn't happen often, but every once in a while, it's like, hello, I'm still here. Yeah. Why are you acting like this? I'm watching you. Why are you crying for me? Stop crying.

SPEAKER_03:

Does that give you some peace?

SPEAKER_07:

It does give me peace in the sense of my for my mother, it does give me peace.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Because my mother passed away from Louie body dementia. Well, she had Louie Bodys dementia when she passed in her sleep. She barely remembered me. She often mistook me for either her sister, her niece, my daughter, her granddaughter.

SPEAKER_03:

That has to be so hard.

SPEAKER_07:

So that is probably the saddest way to go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Because you're dying. You're watching this person fade away day by day by day. And you know, one second she can remember they can remember you, and then the blink of an eye, it's like, who are you?

SPEAKER_03:

That's so brutal.

SPEAKER_07:

Why are you here? It's brutal not only for them, but also it's brutal, true, but it's harder on family mind.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I can't imagine what that experience was like for you. I mean, and not to be callous or anything, but to some extent, like it is brutal for that person, but to some extent. Extent they don't remember, right? But for you, you do remember and you like know and you just like, hey, this is a person I love so much. And I mean, with it being your mom, and I'm not trying to like, I don't know, make this more dramatic or anything, but like that's the person that brought you into the world and all these things. And for that person to, yeah, not be able to remember, that has to be absolutely excruciating for you.

SPEAKER_07:

It was, it still kind of is because it's like, I don't know if she remembered me or not, but the only things that kind of gave me hope that she didn't know who I was, she had her days and her nights mixed up. So she would sleep during the day, wake up at night. I had a nurse's aide to come in to stay for oh yeah, it's like having a baby.

SPEAKER_03:

You were getting put through the ringer.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh yeah. So, you know, I had a nurse a nurse's aide that came at night to take care of her while I slept, you know, during my night times. But when she passed, she had gotten up, she had to go to the bathroom. I talked to go to the bathroom, took a bathroom. I said, Do you want to go back to sleep or do you want me to make you something to eat? She just looked at me and she says, I want to go back to bed. This is how much I remember of it because I'm telling you this exactly as it happened, and I can still see it playing in my head. I got her back in bed, got her under the covers, I gave her a kiss good night. I said, I'll wake you up in a little bit. She just looked at me, she said, I love you. And she called me by her nickname for me. And I just looked at her and I said, you know, and I realized that she saw me as who I am, her daughter. And I said, I love you too, mom. Go back to bed. And I sat there for a moment and I realized she just was gone. So it was very quick.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And it was so much different than how he passed. I was like, oh dear God. It was from an extreme, you know, very quiet at home to the beeping of my fiance to the beeping of machines.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Haunting noise.

SPEAKER_07:

Which oh my god. Yeah. I normally like medical dramas. I really can't watch it too much anymore.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I'm not surprised.

SPEAKER_07:

But yeah, I had a feeling when she passed that she did for that second realize who I was. So that gave me a great, great deal of comfort.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's a beautiful moment to have.

SPEAKER_07:

As scary as fuck. I can only hope that I go out in my sleep that way.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

What was your question again?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know. I caught I got caught up in the story, but I feel like I have more questions. No, no, that's what this is about. This is not about adhering to the questions that I have. It's me trying to learn a little bit about you and you know what you think. And so we're we're on this little journey together. And so I I have more questions. I don't remember exactly what the last one was, but you mentioned at the very beginning about essentially that you know the loss of your fiance. And I I don't know if you actually called him your fiance. I feel like I keep on saying that.

SPEAKER_07:

I don't know if that's no, he we were engaged. Yeah. Okay, cool. Like I said, I had known him, we've known each other for 25 years.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

We never met physically met until five years ago.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I know it sounds strange, and this was in the beginning of COVID.

SPEAKER_03:

Not in this world. Nothing, nothing's really strange anymore with how connected we are and how we can meet people. And I mean, if you said this really I don't know, 50 years ago? I mean, I mean, we can still send letters and stuff, but it would definitely sound stranger than it does today, where it's like, oh yeah, we have the internet. You can talk to people that way.

SPEAKER_07:

You can And that's how we actually met.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

We met in a chat room. We kept talking. There were phone calls, emails back and forth. He had his life in North Carolina. I had my life up here in New York. I had my mother, and I was raising my daughter at the time, so there was no way I can pick up and leave. Yeah. If I had lived alone, I would have packed up my ass and left. Unfortunately, fate did not see it that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay, but if you want to know you had asked something about the fiance.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you kind of said at the beginning that this loss that was very traumatic and and different from your mother, right? Because it was very sudden and all these things. But this kind of kicked off for you thinking about that more. And and what has that process been like? And is is there a fear around death? Is there acceptance around it? Like I'm curious about your general kind of feelings around it and and what you have maybe learned in the past year of kind of exploring planning and figuring things out to some extent.

SPEAKER_07:

There's a lot of paperwork that's involved if you're planning on dying.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. That's the one between a everybody should be planning on dying because it's everybody's gonna die. So plan on everybody's gonna die.

SPEAKER_07:

We just don't know what time. Yeah, totally. And there's gonna be paperwork. There's gonna be a shuse my language, it's gonna be a shitload of fucking paperwork between a living will, yeah, a trust, bank account information that has to be registered, written down somewhere so that the person who's next in line or the next, you know, they know where everything is. It's like, okay, here's a social security card, here's the bank information, here's the bird of attorney, here's the living will, here are the pass. Oh god. I see my brother. I have them all written down. I already told my brother, he doesn't live that far from me. I told my brother, anything happens to me, there's a notebook in my desk with all my passwords. I said, you are to take my phone and my um once everything is over and done with with the banks and everything, wipe the phone clean. Do not open my laptop. I know. I said, do not even open my laptop. He just looked, if he just looked at me, he said, Do you want me to do a hard reset or a soft reset? I said, strip the hard drive clean. Do not leave anything on that drive.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like hard reset and throw it in the Hudson.

SPEAKER_07:

Thank you. He just looked at me, he goes, What do you have in there? I said, none of your business. Delete everything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

And I have there were the couple that I knew, and relationships no longer there. The friendship ended before COVID hit. They had told me the same thing because they were a much older couple. They were in their 60s, going in 70s. They had told me, if anything happens to us, you take the computer, strip it, just reset it all. And I'm like, is there anything else? And they said, There's a steamer trunk. This I'm not lying. Literally told me there is a steamer trunk in the second bedroom. Get it out of the house before the family shows up. Do not open it, just get rid of it. I literally stood things like, what the hell isn't the steamer trunk? And they said, You don't need to know. Just get rid of the steamer trunk before the family shows up.

SPEAKER_03:

See, now you have my wheel spinning a little bit where I'm like, I'm gonna buy a trunk or I'm gonna buy something. And the question is, do I say the exact same things that like you're saying? You know, tell my sister, get it out of here, don't let anybody see it.

SPEAKER_07:

Get it out of here before burn it before mom and dad show up and burn everything.

SPEAKER_03:

And either it's completely empty with like a note that says, ha ha, or maybe I go out and buy just the most ridiculous stuff to stock it with. So that if people don't get curious and she opens it, she'd be like, What the hell is he into? What is wrong with him? Like, I feel like there's a really good practical joke here. I mean, obviously there's some stuff too where it's, yeah, I don't want people to see it, but this also reminds me of I have a friend and she posted a question that is really aligning with this conversation. And it was, would you rather have an open casket funeral where you are completely naked, or oh hell no, let someone go through your phone after you've died. Those are your two options. Oh no, no, like no, neither. None of the above.

SPEAKER_07:

And it's funny, and I'm saying this because I took his cell phone. I still have it. I knew the passcodes to get in. And he had it, and I'm sure almost everybody in this fucking world has it. A little hidden folder app on their phone for photos you don't exactly want to get rid of, but you don't want to keep them on your camera, bro. Yeah. But you need a passcode to get into that, you need a passcode to get into that app. I kind of figured out a way to get into that app, and it was like, oh, those were your past girlfriends.

SPEAKER_03:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_07:

That's an interesting position.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, and the photos were just as interesting. But I like I told my brother, I said, delete the phone. Once everything's done with the banks and you get all the money out, erase the hard drive on the computer.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Burn it all down.

SPEAKER_07:

Don't even just crash it. I don't care. Take a hammer to it. If you want to reinstall apps on it and take it for yourself, go ahead. But I said, do not let my daughter see that. She doesn't need to know half the shit that's on there.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that you have this planned out.

SPEAKER_07:

You have to.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say this is stuff that people don't think about.

SPEAKER_07:

They don't. A lot of people don't. It's like, well, who's got the phone? Who's got this?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

You don't need to know that your mom got freaky with your uncle when she was in her 30s and your dad was watching.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah. That would be that would be terrifying on a lot of levels. No, no, don't even ask, don't even ask the question. I don't want to imagine. But you can continue.

SPEAKER_07:

Think about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

But think about it. Somebody comes home, mom has died, you're going through a stuff, there's a shoebox with photos, and you're looking through it, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, wait a minute. You don't want to think of your parents. Even my daughter said this to me once when she was a teen. You don't want to think of your parents having sex.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

You really don't. And I, you know, she told me that, and I was like, Yeah, you're kind of right. I don't want to think about my mom and my dad having sex.

SPEAKER_03:

What about some other things that you've been planning or or thought about since my daughter's already told me there's a poster that I want in the house.

SPEAKER_07:

She goes, I want that poster. I'm like, okay, fine. She goes, That poster's been around. She puts it, you've had that poster since I was born. I want it. I'm like, okay, fine. You're gonna get that poster, but it's like you're gonna get the Metallica poster, the Iron Maiden poster, the Olivia's.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's a set. Um they don't get separated.

SPEAKER_07:

No, uh you can have some of the Legos if your uncle doesn't fight you for them. You know, it's just trying to figure everything out. Yeah. You know, you want to make it easier for them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_07:

For whoever takes care of it. Because they're the ones who have to deal with it in the aftermath. Yeah. I don't want to be standing there, you know, in a different form watching them just trying to pick and choose.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Because I've seen that I've seen that.

SPEAKER_03:

It happens so much, yeah. Far too often.

SPEAKER_07:

Way too often. It's like people will just come in and without even asking, just say this is mine, I'm taking it. He promised he or she promised it to me, and it's like, no, I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

There will be notes or there will be a notepad with who gets what, if they want it, otherwise, throw it out.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. With the laptop.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh, the laptop has to go. The laptop has got to go.

SPEAKER_03:

Is there a fear around death? As you've kind of and and not saying that this is the first time that you've ever thought about, but in this past year, as you've kind of been looking at it more, is there a fear and anxiety around it? Has this created some calm? Or like what are your general kind of feelings around it?

SPEAKER_07:

Do I have a fear of death? Honestly, I don't think so. I think have you seen the Harry Potter movies?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Okay, remember they were talking about the three wizards who thought themselves so powerful, and the last one of them had gotten the one that can control death and life. And he said by the time he was ready to go, death came to him like an old friend.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

That's kind of the way I think I'm gonna see it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, an old friend.

SPEAKER_07:

Just a friend that's like, okay, you're here, it's time to go. The ghost of Mrs. New York, that's it. That was another book because it was the same kind of storyline. She didn't fear death, he just came. It wasn't that he was deaf, but he just came and she just went with him. She was calm, she went in her sleep, but it was like just knew it was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because it is right.

SPEAKER_07:

Like I said, I would yeah, it's gonna happen no matter what. I don't care if I'm 92 or 102. It's gonna happen eventually.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

Don't want to be scared of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

You know, I would like to think that if I'm going to die, it's gonna be calmly in my sleep, not of a heart attack. Maybe a heart attack while I'm in bed. But yeah, I don't really have a fear of I don't think anybody is scared of death. I think what it is is people are scared of the way they can die. That's more scary than the actual.

SPEAKER_03:

Because there's a lot of ways. And there's some good ones and there's some bad ones.

SPEAKER_07:

Oh yeah. There's so many ways you can go.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I have one last question for you. Um and so, what's one thing you still want to experience in this life?

SPEAKER_07:

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't try to make it easy on my callers for sure.

SPEAKER_07:

No, you don't. You don't. That's really I've fallen in love, I've gotten married, I've given birth to my daughter, but those are all set milestones that just about everybody expects. Good question. I can't answer that one.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's okay. It's it's a hard one.

SPEAKER_07:

Now you got me thinking.

SPEAKER_03:

It's definitely one of those ones that'll make you think. I mean, I would even say for me, I don't know what I how I would answer that question.

SPEAKER_07:

How would you answer it if you could?

SPEAKER_03:

I probably would go something like slightly philosophical and something, you know, like I would like to experience a moment of true peace. I feel like I've had slivers here and there, but I think there's I think there's maybe something more. Yeah. That's how I'd answer it, which is very philosophical. So I'm curious. Did you come up with one now?

SPEAKER_07:

No, I've had moments of true peace.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I've had moments of like very content, very happy with the way my life was going.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

I've given birth to my daughter, like I said. I've fallen in love more than one time, but the last one hit the hardest. I'm on the east coast, I see both oceans.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe I have I have an idea of pivoting it in a way, maybe, and seeing if it helps. Go ahead. What if I asked, what's one thing that you would want to let the world know? Like if there is this one life lesson, or yeah, maybe known for, but or just like, hey, this is something that I think I've learned in my life that I wish more people knew. Or is there something along those lines?

SPEAKER_07:

Be kind to each other. We are all made of flesh and bone and skin. Our it's just our shading is different. We are still human.

SPEAKER_03:

And everybody's going through something.

SPEAKER_07:

That's the other thing, please remember that you know, people are going through different things during different points of their lives. Be kind to each other and be kind to the animals. Yeah, those would be my two things.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that. I think that's a perfect way to end the call and wrap up.

SPEAKER_07:

Especially at this. No problem. I I enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_03:

I did too. I would say when we started the call, you very I think almost one of the first things that you said was that I'm gonna cry. And so, and I'm not, I don't want to say that that this wasn't an emotional call, that there wasn't some heaviness to it. But the one thing that like I constantly try to tell people is how much I end up laughing with people during these conversations. And I will say, I don't know if I've laughed more. Yeah, totally. But we laughed so much throughout the conversation, and I think that's one of the things that I really want people to understand about these conversations is I think we shy away from hard, difficult conversations because, well, I think one thing is we think we're gonna be a scary. Yeah, we think they're gonna be scary. We think we're gonna say the wrong thing. But honestly, like we don't know each other. We met 55 minutes ago, but we had a genuine conversation, laughed and connected. And I'm so grateful that you're willing to open up and willing to share those things. And I think it's a wonderful thing that we're able to do. And I hope that more people are willing to sit down and have these conversations with people. I'm glad that we did this. I laughed so much and just really enjoyed your I'll never look at Dr. Sus the same again. Is that what you're gonna say?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Me, me and me and the listeners, whenever whenever they hear it. Yeah, no one will ever look at Dr. Sus the same. That's your that's gonna be your legacy. Um, and I'm so glad that I could help be a part of that.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. Oh god. I can't believe I've missed.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, thank you again.

SPEAKER_07:

He would be his face. It's been my pleasure. Thank you for this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And I hope you take care.

SPEAKER_07:

You too, baby. You take care.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. Bye.

SPEAKER_07:

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03:

I just want to say how grateful I am for that conversation. It's one of those calls that shows what this project is really about. Grief is present, loss is real, and still there's laughter, warmth, and connection. That balance matters to me, especially for anyone who's been curious about this podcast but unsure they're ready for it. As we start a new year, I also want to share a few updates. And moving forward, these kind of updates will live here in the wrap-up, so we can get right into the call at the start of each episode. I've been thinking a lot about how to build the community around this project, and it's become clear that the best place to do that is on Substack. If the podcast is where the conversation happens, Substack is a place to sit longer with the questions and reflections. A way to stay connected to the work without feeling like you need to keep up. I won't go into everything I've planned, partly because I'm still trying to figure it out, but one thing I've mentioned a few times last year is that the Saturday contemplations will be living there moving forward. It's just a quieter place to gather if that feels aligned for you. This might feel a little strange to share at the end of an episode, but after a few conversations with friends over the holidays, I decided to put together an episode guide. What I kept hearing was people wanted to listen and support the project, but weren't always sure how to jump in. And that makes sense. Even with any podcast, it can feel intimidating to start when there's a backlog. With this one, there's also the added unknown of how heavy a conversation might be. The guide is there to help you orient, especially if you're new or if you want to choose episodes based on where you're at rather than starting from the beginning. There's no right way to move through this work, it's just about meeting yourself where you are. You can find the guide linked in the show notes and on the website. One last thing before we wrap up. Our caller from episode 40 shared a piece of writing with me after our conversation. Something I meant to include at the end of the episode, and it came to me at a random moment over the holidays that I completely forgot to share. So after the outro, instead of a voicemail, I'm gonna leave you with that. Thanks for listening to this episode of When We Die Talks. These conversations don't offer answers, but they do open space. Space to reflect, to feel like alone, and maybe to see things a little bit differently than before. If you'd like to explore your own beliefs out loud, you can apply to be an anonymous caller at WhenWedietalks.com. And if the full call feels like too much, the voicemail is always open. Leave a message at 971-328-0864 and share whatever death has stirred in your life. Listener support truly helps keep this project going. If you'd like to support the podcast, you'll find the link in the show notes. And as always, please like, share, and follow. Every bit makes a difference. Until next time, have a good life.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh, just because you believe one thing does not mean that you can't change your mind. And some days are better than others, in that belief. When you were a child, your life spans in the universe have always been forever. Your parents are superheroes. Your siblings are annoying little shits, but you love them anyway. Uh your grands are old people who make you like things that they buy things you don't like, but you know, you're told to be polite. Your friends are the life support outside world as much as they can be next to your video games. And the teachers who brought you the outside world of yesteryear have lost touch with reality as you know it. And it doesn't get much better than this moment or this moment or this moment. And moments are fleeting when you were young, and moments are precious gifts when you grow old and older to recognize your mortality. And sure you say that you were aware in quick judgment conversations with others as if you had the keys to the universe all along. Life is for some getting older, and for those who want to vacation in Florida. And when you and when you are growing into the person you want to be, and the gloves are off to do as you see fit, choices become life decisions. And those decisions shape the world you walk around, from nurture to nature as you know it, and has sheltered you from the many distractions and atrocities so that your party feeds the monsters of experience. Cognitive mind begins to fade with you each year, and memories start to fade backwards like Polaroids. And what was today's tomorrow is now tomorrow's desired wish to not come true. Relative is a concept suggestive to a fault. So much transpired, starting novels of a forgotten tale. This too has passed. Not to mention time was the illusion and never forgetting time is on your side. It's wielded right. And Buddhists say that if you live your present life right, you won't have to live it again. And Taoists say that you will live either way, no matter if you repeat as many times or not. And who's right? If this indeed is your last life live, why not live it well? The definition deserves its own meaning to each individual, is it not? So if you live life only to die and repeat it again without knowledge of the previous, how is there a right way to live? And these were my first thoughts to you. I wrote this many times and it never seemed to come out right. I guess my mind wanders more freely than I thought. Or these drugs that they keep me on are better than the 60s, that's for sure. And what I'm trying to tell you, Bishop, well, you will live the way life continues you to live it, and the rewards will only be yours. Structure means nothing. Money is worthless because it's designed to leave you as soon as you have it. Love comes and goes. You will reinvent yourself ten times full, but you're going to die no matter what. Just know that you need to live first.