Habits of Hope: Cultivating a Deeper Life with God

39.How to Forgive Church Hurt Without Losing Your Faith

• Ginger Harrington • Season 1 • Episode 39

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What do you do when the Church—the place meant for safety and healing—becomes the source of deep hurt? In this honest conversation, Pastor Mark Cress joins us to explore how to navigate church conflict, extend forgiveness, set healthy boundaries, and move toward healing.

We talk about:

  • The difference between personal and systemic church hurt
  • Why isolation may feel safe but stalls healing
  • Why boundaries are bibical
  • How to know when to stay or go
  • What real forgiveness looks like (and why it’s not the same as trust)
  • What healing looks like after trust is broken
  • How to recognize a healthy Christian community

You’ll also hear Mark’s powerful story of a time when church relationships were strained—and how God led him through healing and restoration, along with the faith lessons that came through it.

Key Scripture References:
John 16:33, Matthew 6:12, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Luke 23:34, Psalms

Links & Resources:

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 Habits of Hope Podcast  is for informational and inspirational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional advice—spiritual, medical, legal, or otherwise.

Ginger Harrington (00:00.29)

Have you ever walked into church expecting comfort and left carrying hurt or trusted someone in your faith community only to feel betrayed, dismissed, or deeply disappointed? If you've ever wrestled with church hurt, spiritual wounds, or broken trust in Christian relationships, this episode is for you, my friend. Today on Habits of Hope, I'm joined by my co-host Larissa Traquair and our special guest,

 

Pastor Mark Cress, for one of the most honest and powerful conversations that we've shared yet. Together we're talking about what happens when the church, God's people hurt us and how to begin healing biblically and with hope. We'll unpack the difference between forgiveness and trust, the role of boundaries in Christian relationships, how to know when it's time to stay or go, and how the grace of God meets us in the mess.

 

This isn't a conversation full of easy answers, but it is one full of grace, truth, and real stories of restoration. So wherever you are today, whether you're walking through fresh pain, processing the past, or supporting someone else, pull up a seat and let's talk about it together. Many people have experienced hurt within the church or Christian communities, and that pain can feel especially deep.

 

when it comes from a place that's supposed to be safe and uplifting. That's why we're excited to have a special guest joining us today, Pastor Mark Kress, Senior Pastor of Crossroad Church in Wichita, Kansas. Mark, welcome to the podcast.

 

Hey, thank you so much, Ginger. I'm excited to be here today.

 

Ginger Harrington (01:49.698)

Well, we are so glad to have you. And before we dive in, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, family, and what led you into ministry.

 

Pastor Mark Cress 

My wife and I realized that God was calling us to start a church in a small town called Wellington, Kansas. We did that in 2011 and it was an incredible ride. We went from meeting in a one-screen movie theater to God providing a building for us. In about five and a half years, we baptized 222 people. From there, God led us to the Washington, D.C. area where I got to meet you, Ginger. We served for three years at Grace Baptist Church and was the connections pastor there. And that church was so gracious to me. They afforded me the opportunity to finish my education and I got a

 

Masters in Theology while I was there. Then from there, I spent some time in Western Kansas as a senior pastor. Not quite a year yet, I've been here much time. My wife and I have seven kids, all through the foster care adoption scenario. That's been an incredible journey, but that's probably a story for a different day.

 

Ginger Harrington: 

Mark, you have had such a well-rounded experience in different roles within the church and outside the church walls. Given what you've seen and experienced, our topic today is dealing with hurt within the church.

 

Pastor Mark Cress 

Well, unfortunately, in my experience, it's not a matter of if you've been hurt by church or in a church, but when and how often. As a pastor, it's very rare that I come across someone who has not been hurt in a church setting. And if they are, they've only been in the church setting for a short amount of time. So just about everyone I know has a church hurt story. And the trouble is, because it's kind of the church's dirty little secret that we hurt each other.

 

 (03:29.902)

We don't ever talk about it. It rarely gets acknowledged. And because of that, no one really knows how to deal with it in a healthy way. When it comes to talking about church hurt, there's two different categories. There's the personal conflict, like we talked about. And then there's also the systemic church hurt. Church hurts on a personal level often has to do with someone within the body of believers that you belong. They will say something or do something that either offends you or hurts your feelings, might cause some anger in the moment. So that's kind of what that looks like.

 

I would say when it comes to larger systemic church hurt, there are often times it will go beyond just hurt, feelings or offense to a sense of betrayal. I have been betrayed and because of this betrayal, my trust is broken or shattered. So it feels heavier because it is heavier. It's involving a larger group of people as opposed to just a one-on-one, maybe one-on-two scenario.

 

Larissa Traquair (04:24.766)

Yeah, that's so good, Mark, and just so good to just clarify, you know, what we're talking about here. So, since we're talking about specifically church hurt, when someone has been hurt by the church, their first instinct is often to withdraw. And I have experienced this and I struggled with that because it is easier, especially if you are working with people.

 

who aren't willing to come to the table and have a conversation with you, it can be really hard than not to want to withdraw because that's just the easier thing. So, Mark, why is isolation not the best response when it comes to church hurt?

 

Pastor Mark Cress (05:08.974)

So, I mean, the biblical answer, I guess I would point to is in the New Testament, there are 59 one another commands, and you cannot be faithful to obey any of those by yourself. You can't love one another alone. You can't bear one another burden alone. You can't mourn with one another and celebrate with one another. You can't do any of those things alone. So these, the vast majority of the 59 come from the mouth of Jesus himself. You cannot be obedient to Jesus's words if you isolate yourself.

 

and that I totally understand and can appreciate why someone would want to remove themselves. I think it's in moments like that that's really important that we understand.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (05:51.642)

that God is not at the source of our hurt. Yeah. But he certainly allowed it. Like if we believe God is sovereign, then he is either the creator of everything or he is the allower of things. And so we have to ask ourselves sometimes, God, would you allow this to perform the purpose that you intend in my life? Would have asked for this, wouldn't wish it on anybody else, but for whatever reason you've allowed this, would you allow it to perform the function that you intend? And that's a really hard prayer to pray.

 

Yeah, that's, it's so good though. So kind of along those lines, why is it so important not to give up on God and church community after being hurt? I know you've said a little bit about that, but how does staying connected even when it's difficult help in the healing process? Because, you know, we're talking about the same community that hurt us is supposed to be the community that is there for us. And so it's hard. It's hard to

 

understand it and then walk it out biblically.

 

So in some instances, I would say based on what's going on, if it's a systemic issue, if it's a biblical issue, you have to ask yourself and pray, God, is this where you're calling me to stay? Are you calling me to stay and fight this out? And when I say fight, mean, represent the interest of Jesus to the very best of my ability, forgiving as quickly and as completely as God forgave me, honoring one another above myself. That's what I mean when I say stay and fight.

 

Or, God, is this a church that is off the rails and I need to go find a church that's on the rails? So first, I think it would be important to understand, God, do you want me to stay or are you asking me to leave? God, if you're calling me to stay, I'm going to need the wisdom and the strength to remember that it's my responsibility to put down the magnifying glass and pick up a mirror because it was my sin that caused the debt, the son of God, life. Right? He died for my sin, just as much as anyone else's sin.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (07:53.068)

So it's really easy to put others under the microscope or a magnifying glass and magnify the wrongs that they have done. But it's also really important to remember that I'm a sinner and need the same grace that they are. And if I'm going to stay and fight, I think that's number one. I need to remember that I am broken in need of a savior the same way they are. I need the same grace that they need. And so try to get myself on a level playing field and then love as I've been.

 

Yeah. Amen. I know that it's good to talk about both, right? Do we stay or do we go? and I know Ginger will want to chime in as well, but I'd love to also ask. for, you kind of asked, you kind of answered the question, if you stay, what about advice you want to give to somebody who wants to heal but is struggling to trust again because they have left?

 

Yeah. So number one, would say grieve, grieve, it's a loss. So grieve the loss. think we do a really good job of grieving when we lose a loved one, when they pass away, when they die, when they transition to eternity, wherever that may be, to heaven or to hell, we grieve those losses. We'll grieve the loss of a pet, we'll grieve the loss of a job, but we rarely stop to grieve the loss of a friendship or the loss of the faith community.

 

based on what was going on there. So number one, grieve it. Allow yourself time to grieve. Number two, talk to God about it. God's not afraid of your honesty. If you think he is, you haven't read the Psalms because David, I mean, he says things like, God, kill my enemies. He rarely ends the Psalm with that sentiment. Usually he will talk himself out of that, but he's really honest with God. And so I think you can go to God with all of your feelings, all of the emotions that you have. Go to him. Just be incredibly honest.

 

Number three, remember that healing takes time. There's a lot of things for you to process and there's a lot of things that you're going to have to let go and for like, for me, I don't know if this is for everybody, but forgiveness is kind of, it's the process of God, forgive them, right? And I'm going to open up my hand. It's just a physical reminder of that. But if I'm not careful in about 10 minutes, I'll find that my fist is closed again. And so I have to say, okay, God, I forgave him once, but I just bought a bat.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (10:10.732)

God helped me to forgive them and I need to open my hand again. And so there was an instance in my life where it took over a year of doing that process again and again and again. And that wasn't their fault. I mean, what they had done was way in the past that my own struggle with forgiveness was I had to forgive them over and over and over again because my tendency is to buy it back.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you. Thanks for your honesty.

 

Well, that brings us to something that I want to dig into and that is that forgiveness piece. We've done a whole podcast on, on forgiveness in the past. And we'll link that in the show notes for someone who might want to dig into that even deeper than we can in, in a segment of our conversation. But let's continue to dig into forgiveness. Mark, you said several things that I want to just back up a little bit and

 

talk about that piece, what biblical forgiveness looks like, because I think it's easy for, you know, when we were kids and you had a fight with your brother or your sister, your mom would say, tell them you're sorry. And you go, I'm sorry. And we, I think we have a tendency to kind of equate saying I'm sorry with forgiveness and forgiveness can be

 

can include some really painful experiences. And just like you were talking about, sometimes you have to go there again and again until you work through the process. But just unpacking that for someone who's not really sure what biblical forgiveness is, give us your take on that.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (11:53.73)

So when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, they're asking Jesus how to pray because it's altogether different than the way they were praying. It's not a scripted prayer that Jesus prays when Jesus would get alone in prayer, or when he prayed around them, they realized this isn't like all the other rabbis. So they said, Jesus, show us how to do this. And these are men who would have been exposed to Jewish prayer their whole life, but they recognize there's something altogether different. And so when Jesus teaches them to pray, he teaches them part of that prayer. You guys know this is about forgiveness.

 

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. There's other instances in the Bible where basically we're taught that our forgiveness depends on our forgiveness. What that means is that our forgiveness from God is dependent upon our forgiving of other people around us. There's another instance for wives and husbands. We're literally taught in Scripture that if a husband and wife are not on good terms, that will hinder the husband's prayers. In other words, God's not listening to you.

 

if you're not willing to make things right with people. So there's a biblical command to forgive. If Jesus can bear the sins of the world, God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that we might become the righteousness of God, 2 Corinthians 5.21. If he can do that, and if he can from the cross say, Father, forgive them, they don't even know what they're doing, then who am I to hold on to, well, they said something bad about me behind.

 

I mean, it seems kind of petty in comparison. So one, it's a command from Jesus. And two, it's the example set for us. So I believe there's a biblical command to do that. If you're going to be a believer in Christ Jesus, forgiveness is simply not optional.

 

Ginger Harrington (13:46.136)

And the other piece of forgiveness is it does us no good. It is toxic for us to carry around bitterness and unforgiveness. so there is a piece of forgiveness that sets the person who has been hurt free. And we unpacked that really well in a previous episode.

 

Ginger Harrington (14:11.234)

forgiveness is just a hard, it's a hard topic. And I love the fact that you talked about, sometimes it's a process. And, because I have talked to some folks who said, Hey, if you ever get upset again, that means you didn't really forgive. And I don't think that's true. I think that we struggle with our emotions and when they pop back up, we have to do just what you did. get open that hand again and deal with that with the Lord. And

 

keep going on in that forgiveness journey. Now here's the thing that comes to mind transitioning into a little bit of a different segue is forgiveness doesn't ignoring boundaries though. And how can someone let go of bitterness while still maintaining a healthy and healthy boundary, particularly if it's with someone who is not respecting their boundaries.

 

Yeah, so one of the things I think that we have a problem with remembering is that boundaries are always necessary. Always. Before, during, and even after hurt, boundaries are necessary. And there are people who simply don't have boundaries because of past experiences. There are people that have excessive boundaries. There's people who refuse to respect boundaries and hurt comes from all of these different things. But I think it's really important to remember that when I forgive somebody,

 

That doesn't mean that I give them an all access backstage pass to my life. I can still forgive them and not have the same relationship with them that I had before. For me personally, I know that I have forgiven someone when I can pray blessings over that person and mean it. That's the hard part for me is that initially, God, I know I need to forgive this person, but man, I feel like they did me dirty. But God, would you bless them and their family?

 

I don't really mean that, but I'm trying to mean it. And so that's the prayer. But when I can get to the point where I can say, God, I genuinely want them to be blessed by you. I want them to know and experience your kindness and your grace and your mercy. When I get to that point and I mean it, I know at that point I've forgiven them. That may not mean that I am going to invite them back into my house again, because at the end of the day, forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. And I think it's really important to remember that those are two distinct pieces.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (16:37.964)

relationships move at the speed of trust. And so it takes time to establish trust. But you guys, sure know this, trust can be broken in an instant. And it's going to take even longer to rebuild the trust than it took in the first place. So forgiveness and trust aren't the same thing.

 

I love that you said relationships move at the, that again.

 

Sorry, relationships move at the speed of trust.

 

That's a good one.

 

Yeah, that's a sticky statement that we all need to remember for sure. And I appreciate your honesty because I've struggled there too. I've prayed for many people and have said I've forgiven, but oh, have to take it. You know, I have to kind of keep giving it back over to the Lord. And I love that reminder because it isn't a one and done when we're hurt and emotions are involved.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (17:36.002)

Because of the brain, sorry, because of the way the brain works, one of the things that I've read a lot about neuroscience is the more you think of thought, the easier it is to think of thought. They talk about creating neural pathways and creating troughs in our brain. The more the way we think and the way we reason, it will literally reshape and form our brains. And so it's like when I drive down a dirt road, you can see that the tracks in the road, but

 

If I drive down that same road just once, all you'll see is the tracks. But if I do it over the course of four years, eventually I'm going to make ruts and the tires are going to want to steer into their rut. And the same way that the same is true with our brain. when I think thoughts over and over, they got, they hurt me and I'm angry and I'm so I can't believe they said that about me. can't believe I trusted them and I thought they trusted me and I thought we were good and all this time they were, and you just nurse and rehearse the wounds. The easier it is to think that.

 

And so that's why praying for them is going to help literally reshape the landscape of your brain. And that's why I used to lie to God. I used to say, God, just bless them. And I want them to be blessed. But then I was like, well, it's probably not good to lie to God. So God, bless them. I don't mean it, but I want to mean it. I really want to mean it. So God, would you help me mean it? And over time, he does. The Holy Spirit is faithful, but it's a process.

 

Yeah, God is really good to us when we are trying to be faithful, even if it's a struggle. So since we're on this topic, I think reconciliation is something that a lot of people will think about because forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same either. So how can someone navigate reconciliation in a biblical way? And how do they know when it's time to step away from an unhealthy church environment and or unhealthy people?

 

So when it comes to a problem, the answer is always to go to the person that you've been hurt. A scenario that I literally just walked through in the church where I'm at. There are two women who are part of our hospitality team. One is newer to the church. One is a co-leader of the team. This woman that was newer to the church was wanting to get established onto the hospitality team. And on a particularly rough Sunday with her kids that were running around, they were young, they're still new to the church, so all the environments are still very new.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (19:55.234)

The kids were doing what kids do, what you can expect young kids to do. And the new woman was kind of frazzled. And when the hospitality leader didn't recognize the frazzle and decided to ask a question anyway, the newer woman, she said something that kind of sounded like she was snapping at her. That was not her heart. Her heart was not to snap at this woman. Her heart was to answer her, but also deal with the kid problem. As a result of that whole scenario,

 

the leader of the hospitality team, instead of recognizing the issue, instead of coming back to the newer woman and saying, hey, did I just catch you at a wrong time? It seemed like you snapped at me. Are we okay? Did I say something wrong? Instead of asking those questions, she went to the other co-leader and said, well, this woman snapped at me. not sure we want her on the team. And so now this other leader who has no relationship with this new woman now believes, well, this is the kind of woman who just snaps. That's who she is. That's her character. That's her personality. And now she's

 

pigeonholed, the whole thing could have just been dealt with if we'd gone to the person with whom we had the issue. Always, always, always err on the side of going to the person. Don't ask, don't ask. If you need to ask for wisdom on it, leave names out. But at the end of the day, most of us know we should go to the person and seek understanding before we seek to be understood. That's a really hard bit of it, but I think.

 

and 70 % or more of church heard could be dealt with if we would just seek understanding instead of seek to be understood. When it comes time to leave a church, leave a community, I think it goes back to is this church doctrinally aligned with what I believe to be true? If they are, and unless I have a clear calling from God to go somewhere else, then I need to figure out how to solve this so that I can remain in community with these people. When I say these people, really with my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I think that's another way that we need to

 

to think about it. It's not us versus them. This is my family.

 

Larissa Traquair (21:56.076)

Yeah, that's so, good.

 

Ginger Harrington (22:06.967)

That would be me. Okey doke. Mark, I know that you've worked with so many people who've walked through church hurt. And can you share a testimony either from your own life or someone that you've ministered to about someone who did find healing?

 

after experiencing the church hurt. Let's talk about what that looks like because I think God can do some really incredible things when we're willing to do the hard work of dealing with conflict, rebuilding relationship and reestablishing trust.

 

I don't want to throw anyone else under the bus and share stories that aren't mine to share. So if it's all right with you, I'll share my own story. The church that I was serving out in Western Kansas, I started serving there in January of 2020. had, my family and I had about two and a half normal, quote unquote, normal months of church and then COVID happened. My responsibility as the new pastor that no one really knew, and remember relationships move at the speed of trust and no one really knew me or trusted me yet because I was brand new.

 

I was tasked with telling the church, we can't meet together. And so everyone is trying to trust this guy that they don't know. And there's all kinds of trouble brewing as a result of this. In the midst of that season, my family was dealing with some of our own challenges. My boys are all adopted. And if you know anything about the foster care system, it's almost impossible to go through the foster care system without coming out with some kind of trauma. And we were told when we adopted our boys that they all have trauma.

 

They've all dealt with it as best they can, as age appropriate, but when they get to a certain age, it may rear its ugly head again. And we just prayed that God would deal with it, that God would heal it, and we just believed that He had, until we realized that He hadn't. And we didn't know of anyone who'd ever walked through. What we were walking through was our boys are dealing with their trauma, and it's becoming real again for them. As a result of what we're doing, Katie and I pulled back from the church from our involvement. We did what was necessary, but nothing above and beyond.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (24:09.142)

And in that season, I had a group of deacons who instead of coming and sitting down and asking questions, they just decided that the reason we had hold back was because we didn't want to be there. didn't like the church. We didn't like the town. And we were just frustrated and angry at everybody. There were meetings that were held about me behind my back. There was several different conversations that went beyond the deacons to even go into the personality before I finally heard about it. And at that point, when I finally heard about it, obviously I'm feeling betrayed.

 

I'm feeling like trust has been broken. This whole scenario feels like, God, I just want to leave. God, get me out of here. And he didn't and he wouldn't. As hard as I tried, he wouldn't. And so what happened was we got together with everyone that they had talked about and all the meetings and all the people that had been in meetings without me. I asked for everyone to come together. And in that meeting, again, it was a bunch of finger pointing and a bunch of questions. I'm sorry, not questions, but accusations. Finally, finally,

 

There was one Deacon who said, well, Mark, what is going on? Why is this happening? And I said, well, all of it isn't much story to tell. My boys are going through a season of life that's really hard and Katie and I don't really know how to navigate it. And that's what we're walking through. And then he asked, well, how long is this going to last? unfortunately I laughed. I laughed because I know enough to know I don't know enough about trauma, but I also know that you don't navigate trauma overnight. And some people don't even navigate it well in a lifetime. And so the answer was, I don't know.

 

After this whole mess began to settle down, I will say that it was incredibly hard to trust again. It was incredibly hard to go to Deacon meetings. It was really hard to believe that the best about these guys. It was really hard for me to believe that they loved Jesus. But over the course of two years where God was refusing to get me out of that situation, God kept me in it to remind me that everything that I was afraid of, everything that I had feared, literally none of it came to pass.

 

because our God is not the kind of God who just randomly swoops in and pulls us out. Our God is the kind of God who walks with us through the valley of the shadow of death. And as a result of that, I can tell you now that the very man who looked me in the eye and said, Mark, how long is this gonna last? He is a very good friend of mine. He is someone that I would go to war with. Not in that instance, but over the next two and a half years of having hard conversations, of sitting down and looking each other in the eye,

 

Pastor Mark Cress (26:33.768)

of even crying together and even offering forgiveness to one another. That is a man that I trust with my life at this point. Had it been up to me, I would have been gone in a heartbeat, but God simply would not let that happen.

 

you guys going through this and working it through, I'm sure the people around you guys learned some really important lessons and saw God working through a hard situation. And when we see people come out on the other side and we have that opportunity to see what God has done, if we're observant, if we're thinking about it, it builds our faith and it teaches us how to handle some things maybe differently.

 

by watching someone else and it's certainly not easy for sure. I'm sure there were days you just wanted to walk out the door. But when we get a chance to see what God does with something and sometimes we don't always get that. I will acknowledge that. But trusting God with the situation as it is, is an important piece of this. What words of hope

 

do you have for someone listening right now who feels like their faith and their relationship with God has been shaken because of something that's happened with another believer or within the church?

 

So I would point them to scripture. John 16, 33, Jesus said, told you these things so that you may have peace. In this world, you will have trouble. So Jesus promises you're gonna have trouble. It's not if, it's when trouble's happening. I don't say that to have a pessimistic mindset. I just say that, that there is an enemy in this world who does not want our best, he doesn't want our peace. And so Jesus says, in this world, you will have trouble. But the promise is take heart.

 

Pastor Mark Cress (28:27.96)

peace of Christ rule in our hearts. Jesus says, take heart, I've overcome the world. And so I would point the person back to this. So I would say what you're experiencing, unfortunately, is somewhat normal in this world. That we hurt people, and because we're hurt, we hurt others. Hurt is going to happen, but hurt doesn't have to have the final say. When Jesus said it's finished, that means that he has the final say on this whole thing.

 

And if you're willing to trust Him who has never been the source of your hurt, if you're willing to trust Him, I think you'll see that not everybody is like the people who hurt you. And even the people who hurt you actually can be pretty fantastic people if you're willing to trust God through the process.

 

One of the things as you've been talking, as we've been having this conversation, and I've learned in my season of Church Hurt, is that we're conditioned to not do hard and messy. And I'm right there too. I was not conditioned to do hard and messy. And yet we're called to, and you were just talking about that, that there will be trouble. And so we're going to have to do the hard and messy.

 

So as we start kind of talking about rebuilding trust and relationships, I'd love real quickly, how can we improve this? how, cause it's not comfortable. I've been in one meeting like that where I've been accused and had people turn against me for something I actually didn't even do or start, but I happened to be there at the same time. And that is really hard to take and then come back from and

 

I wish I had known then what I know now, but the good news is that hard thing has prepared me for the hard thing I'm in right now. So how can we improve that since we've been conditioned to not do the hard and messy?

 

Pastor Mark Cress (30:17.676)

Whenever I am defensive, I am not operating in the spirit. I am operating in the flesh. In effect, I'm saying, God, I don't trust you to have my best interest at heart. So I have to go to bat for me right now. Going back to my experience, I was warned several times, Mark, if you go into that meeting and you're defensive, that's the end. They're probably going to fire you and they're going to move on. And so instead I just sat there and I listened and it was really hard because they were saying some hard things. But as I, as I,

 

sat there and listened to what I realized afterwards. They were accusations, not questions. They were assumptions, not understanding. And as a result of that, just sitting and listening and striving to understand where they were coming from and asking question on my end, trying to understand the people that were against me came out looking like people who were not operating in the spirit. think that's the nicest way I can say that as a result of that scenario. I don't...

 

that never would have happened had I been defensive. So one, would say kill the desire as best you can to defend yourself because Jesus is our defender. I think we need to remember that first and foremost. Number two, one of the things, think what you want about Rick Warren. Some people love him, some people don't, but one of the things that he said that I think is really true is that he said, I'll always be smarter than my critics because I strive to learn from my critics and my critics rarely learn from me. So I feel like

 

If I can take that and strive to learn from people who are mean and are accusatory and don't strive to understand and make more assumptions than they do ask questions, I can still learn. And if I can learn from that, then at the end of the day, I will be better. Jesus is our defender. Strive to learn when you're going through it.

 

That is so good and I think it's a great segue then into our practical steps of rebuilding trust and relationships. So for the person who is ready to take steps towards healing, let's get really practical. Mark, what should someone look for in a safe, grace-filled Christian community?

 

Pastor Mark Cress (32:20.066)

There should be openness. There should be transparency. There should be an approachableness of the leadership and just people in general. There should be the opportunity for questions to be asked and ideas to be shared. That's a pretty healthy environment. If you have the opportunity to show up and ask questions and really get understanding and they want to introduce you to others and get you connected, everyone wants to be where they're wanted. And churches that do that well.

 

are really communicating. We're striving to walk in Jesus' ways. So I would point them in that direction. I would say wherever you see healthy boundaries, one of the things that Dr. Henry Cloud says in his book, Boundaries, is that boundaries should look more like fences than they do walls. Because fences can have gates, walls rarely have openings in them. Walls are intended to keep people out. Fences are simply declaring, this is how far you can come. But occasionally you'll come across a gate that lets people in and out.

 

And so where there are healthy boundaries, our leadership is saying, hey, I'm going to give you my time, but I'm still going to prioritize my family. That's super healthy. Look for scenarios like that.

 

thinking about the situation that you experienced, kudos for sticking it out and working it through. But it seems to me that so many conflicts and issues with people in general, let alone in the church, would be rather than making an assumption, ask, express care and concern and ask the person, hey, how are you? What's going on?

 

I've noticed this, are you okay? That is another piece of healthy community and healthy relationships. When there is care and concern for others, before we go to that conflict piece, before we go to gossip, accusation, step on toes, that discounting or dismissing somebody to think twice, could there be something going on here that rather than being accusatory,

 

Ginger Harrington (34:24.438)

maybe they need support. And I don't know, I think so many things could be sidestepped and not become an issue like that.

 

So, so many times we have a tendency to explain away looks that people give us or like there's always an internal conversation in our head. And I don't know about you guys, but no one lies to me more than highlighted me when it comes to the internal thought process. And I can come up with some doozies in my head. I can tell you about an argument one time where my wife and I were arguing with one another. And then I, I took the time to tell Katie what I thought she thought of me. What a ridiculous conversation and conflict that we had.

 

And the whole thing could have been avoided if I had just simply asked Katie questions. whenever, whenever you, there's a check in your spirit, whenever you wonder in your mind, are we good? Are things okay? Go ask it. Just go have the conversation. Keep short accounts as far as that goes. Don't, don't, don't just explain things away, but actually go the extra mile to make sure, Hey, are we good? Is everything okay? I thought maybe I said something that offended you. I just want to make sure that we're okay.

 

I have never met the person who got mad at me because I asked that question. I have only met people who are mad at me when I make assumptions.

 

Mark, this has been such a great conversation. As we start to wind down, we've covered so much, but before we close, is there anything else that you'd like to add to the conversation that we haven't touched on?

 

Pastor Mark Cress (35:54.574)

It's really easy to give up on church after a church hurt, whether it's individual church or a systemic church hurt, and just assume that all churches are that way. And maybe you've been in four or five churches and you have four or five instances of church hurt. I would say that if the church, the bride of Christ, was worth Jesus pursuing to death and back, then it's worth us.

 

taking the time to continue to pursue our place within the larger body of Christ. To get up and walk away is simply not biblical, it's not the answer. Jesus literally bore the sins of the world in order to establish the church. And when you look at history, civilizations have come and gone. People have attacked the church and tried to kill the church, but the one constant throughout time, from Acts chapter two on, is that the church exists. Yes.

 

The Bride of Christ has struggles and challenges, but if you will stay the course, you will see that there's beauty in it. And it is worth going through the hurt and the trouble and the sorrows, because at the end, Jesus does win. And at the end, there will be the most beautiful wedding in the history of existence, where we come and are united with Jesus forever. And that is totally worth all the pain and the suffering and the heartache and the hurt and the betrayal.

 

If in the end I get to be with Jesus forever.

 

beautiful comments. This is such an important topic, and this is for the person who has had a negative experience, a conflict with someone, hurt feelings within the church or within the body of Christ. These things can all happen in a Bible study, in a women's group, in a men's study. It doesn't necessarily have to be the whole church body. But then that other piece that we talked about when there is systemic

 

Ginger Harrington (37:48.958)

issues and dysfunction in the church, there does come a time when part of that boundary piece is prayerfully to step away. And so we are not advocating that someone stay in a spiritually abusive situation, a church that has lost its ropes, a church that is not operating in a biblical way. It is easy to get your fingers burnt.

 

and be afraid to, let's be honest, it's hard to step into a church building when you don't know people. It's hard, even if you've never had a negative experience. one of the things the Lord brought to mind the other day is if I go to a doctor and I have a bad experience with that doctor, I'm gonna go find another doctor. I am not going to swear off medicine

 

altogether. I'm not going to stay and suffer in my medical problem that I'm experiencing. And I think sometimes with church that we, it is easy to give up on God, give up on the church when we've had a negative or hurtful experience. And so I think that's why this conversation is so important. And it takes the, it takes the wisdom of the Holy Spirit and biblical counsel.

 

You know, if you're in challenging situations like this, if you have an opportunity to have biblical counsel, and I'm not talking gossip, I'm talking counsel, getting wisdom, getting someone to call you to the mat sometimes, sometimes there's an accountability piece. That's just such an important piece of this. And so as we close friends, I want to remind you to not give up on God or church community. If you've been hurt, healing does take time.

 

But it's possible when we seek Christ, when we're seeking what God says, when we're God's wisdom, how to deal with this, how to forgive, whether or not this is a larger problem or a personal issue, to seek Christ, to practice that forgiveness like we've talked about, and then that stepping forward in faith, being willing to give it a try again, being willing

 

Ginger Harrington (40:11.416)

to try a different church if the Lord has led you to a different place, being willing to step into that meeting like you guys were talking about. There's a willingness that's on us. And if I'm not willing to do hard things, if I'm not willing to address things or to have hard conversations, and honestly, I don't like those, it hinders what God can do. Then when we have the conversation, when we step forward in faith and really try to rebuild, really try to work through things,

 

At the end of the day, that is what healthy families do. When one of my kids gave me an issue, I did not boot them out the door. We work it through and there's a time and place for that within the body of Christ. And one other thing, my friends, is you don't have to have all the answers today. Some situations you might not ever understand completely, but take one step at a time trusting that God is

 

walking with you through the process. Just like Mark was saying, he's with you in the problem. He sees your hurt. He cares about your healing and he will lead you to the right community in his timing. Thank you, Mark, for joining us today. If our listeners would like to hear your sermons or to connect with you on social media, can you tell us where they could find you?

 

Thank you for having me Ginger. It's been an honor to be here Larissa. I'm grateful for you as well. Thank you for the opportunity. The church website is crossroad.live. Singular crossroad.live. There's a podcast that's available wherever you download apps under the Crossroad name.

 

Guys, I would encourage you to listen to Mark Sermons. It's one of the reasons why I asked him on the podcast. He was one of our assistant pastors a few years ago at our church, and I never forgot that. So for anyone listening, if this conversation has spoken to you, we'd love to hear from you. Send us a message, share your story, or let's encourage one another in this journey of healing and hope. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast.

 

Ginger Harrington (42:22.498)

We'd love for you to leave a review. Until next time, remember you're not alone. God is faithful and healing is possible.