Maldives Uncovered: The Sunny Side Podcast
This podcast is all about the Maldives as a tourism destination. You'll hear insights from top industry leaders and experts. Join our community to get inspired and gain the knowledge you need to reach your business or personal goals.
Maldives Uncovered: The Sunny Side Podcast
Balancing Tourism Growth and Sustainability in the Maldives
In this Episode you will hear a panel discussion among industry experts on the topic of balancing tourism growth and sustainability in the Maldives. The discussion delved into the balance between tourism growth and sustainability, exploring diverse perspectives and solutions from these seasoned professionals. Their collective insights underscored the importance of integrating sustainable practices into tourism strategies to ensure the Maldives can thrive as a premier destination while safeguarding its environmental and cultural heritage.
Moderated by Amjad Thaufeeq, Vice Chair of Destination Future, joined by industry leaders, including Ms. Marteyne Van Well (General Manager of Six Senses), Mr. Ahmed Jihad (General Manager of Cocoon), Dr. Simad Saeed (Managing Director of CDE), Ms. Ruth Franklin (Founder of Secret Paradise), and Ms. Fathimath Shaazleen (Resort Manager of Naladhu Private Island).
Welcome to Maldives. Uncovered the Sunnyside podcast by Destination Future. Diving into the heart of one of the world's most iconic travel destinations, you'll hear exclusive insights and expert opinions from top industry leaders sharing their knowledge on ever-evolving landscape of tourism in the Maldives. Whether you're a professional in the industry or simply passionate about travel, this podcast is your gateway to staying inspired and informed. Let's embark on this journey together as we explore the future of tourism in paradise.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the podcast. This episode will be a little different than our usual episodes with guests in an interview format. Today I'm going to share with you one of the panel discussions from the Future Summit held in August. The summit was Destination Future's inaugural event, attended by over 150 industry leaders. The summit report, with key discussions, actionable points, have been now shared with industry stakeholders. It is our hope and wish that our pleas, our advices, our discussions will be taken seriously and actions taken accordingly. The topic of the panel was a very important topic in relation to Maldives, the current development and the sustainability of Maldives. The topic was why is balancing tourism and sustainability important for the Maldives? Go ahead and listen in and enjoy.
Speaker 3:And now let's move on to the panel discussion on the topic. Why is balance in tourism growth and sustainability important for the Maldives? To guide us through this topic, we are honored to have a distinguished panel of experts Mr Ahmad Jihad, group General Manager at Cocoon Maldives, ms Ruth Franklin, co-founder at Sacred Paradise, mr Martin Van Bell, regional General Manager at Six Senses, dr Seemad Saeed, managing Director at CDE Consulting. And Ms Fatma Shazlain, resort Manager at NADO Private Island. Let's welcome our panelists to the stage.
Speaker 4:Let's welcome our panelists to the stage. Okay, ladies and gents, first of all, a very warm welcome to this panel. I wish that actually we have plenty of time to talk about this subject, which is very important, but we will actually try to make it probably short, sweet and also productive as well. So here we have got experts on the subject and who has actually lived in this subject very much, so they all actually would bring a lot of knowledge and experiences. So let's, I will start actually with Dr Seemad. Dr Seemad's presentation, first of all, was really really beautiful, very informative. So what here about the Bhutan? I just actually mentioned about the Bhutan and you have been so much of experience from international arena. What can we actually learn from Bhutan? Do you think that we have to follow a similar path in terms of sustainability? Is it important or just we actually continue with the growth as it is? And what are the consequences.
Speaker 5:Thank you so much. I think, in terms of sustainability and what Bhutan has been achieving, they have been doing a remarkable job in terms of that. If we look at the sustainability literature and what's written about different countries' performance, they have even introduced the gross happiness index. They're saying that rather than look at the GDP, they rather consider happiness index, and their king has championed that. And we find that there are international scholars and others who really study about Bhutan's performance and even advise them on how to do it. If I may I happen to be, I was in Sri Lanka and in a seminar that was held in Colombo and one of the speakers there was an economic advisor economist from UK, david Pierce from London School of Economics, I think, and he was giving a presentation and I was listening there and then he said look, the only country that has got this right is Maldives.
Speaker 5:And then he gave an example. And then he was using his demand and supply diagrams and then just doing a very basic explanation and he was saying that when demand increases doesn't just simply mean that you keep on increasing the supply. If you just keep on increasing the supply, he said, demand ultimately would start going down, and he showed how much Maldives was making in terms of comparing to other countries. So we did have that opportunity, that kind of example in the past. Have that opportunity, that kind of example in the past.
Speaker 5:Now the question is Maldives being the world's leading destination, what kind of lessons can we learn from Bhutan? I think that's the question. We are two very different country. One is a mountain top country, very remote, very difficult to reach, but they are doing very good with their tourism in terms of maintaining the numbers and making sure that their population is happy. So I think, to give a simple answer to your question, I would say the Maldives needs to learn from Bhutan how to be happy. The Maldives needs to learn from Bhutan how to be happy. I think the issue with us is we are not happy. So if we can learn that how to be happy when you are like the world's leading destination how do you become happy, how do you respect that, how do you appreciate it?
Speaker 4:I think that would be a good start. I think it's a quite interesting perspective. As you just mentioned Bhutan's happiness index, that's what a lot of people actually know Bhutan about, and while we actually endeavor to stay as the number one leading destination, I believe it is also equally important for us to focus on that. Thank you, dr Simad.
Speaker 4:Mr Jihad, we actually have known each other for almost 15, 20 years. Jihad has been in several luxury resorts and understand actually the Maldives and all the challenges that we are going through. My question to you is do you believe this is sometimes some of these topics can be a little bit controversial, but we must talk about it, otherwise later we will regret. Probably our kids, 20 to 30 years later, will actually ask us why didn't we raise these subjects? So we actually will a little bit open. I wish Minister was here as well, but he had to go. Do you believe that unregulated tourism developments on local islands could lead to significant consequences in the future and what potential risks and challenges might arise from the lack of regulations in this island?
Speaker 6:Thank you, mr Amjad. Before that, do you agree with me what a fantastic presentation Dr Seymour has put us? As a person who has been working in the industry for a number of years, I was amazed by the statistics Before I answer Mr Amjad's questions. In the last 52 years, this kind of forums, tourism, master plan 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, these fantastic people around here collect information, sharing knowledge. Are we going to use this one? Is it very productive? Knowledge is power, but it is more powerful Apply learning. So I thank you, destination Future, the NGOs, our colleagues, courage and confidence, idea coming together and execute. Believe me, my dear friends, for the six of you who organized this, it was not easy. There must face a lot of challenges, as some of our previous speakers mentioned. When you start something, always you will face challenges. But thank you, mr Amjad, all the organizers, all supporters of Destination Future, thinking, forward, thinking Question, very important question Local tourism 800, 900 guest houses on the increase, Regulation, regulatory body Do we have yes, if you go to Google, ministry of Tourism, very nice Regulations, monitoring system, regulatory bodies, execution. So if we don't have monitoring system, proper regulation and execution, yes, there are significant consequences for a couple of things Environmental perspective, social, cultural perspective and also economic perspective. Also, I would like to add safety and security. Last point the image of the Maldives, the brand image of the Maldives.
Speaker 6:What is environment sustainability? Dr Simard set the tone for this forum after his presentation. What is sustainable tourism? What is sustainability? 1804, a German professor named George Harting start talking about sustainability because of the German in forests, so many people are cutting the trees but nobody takes seriously. 1987, endorsed by United Nations World Tourism Organization, by Professor Rudley Land, define what we all agree. What is sustainability? Provide the ability and the power to accommodate the present requirements but not compromising the future generation of maintaining and long-term goals. That's one of the.
Speaker 6:But coming back to Mr Amjad, your question is environmental. Let's look at the local tourism guest houses. If there is no proper monitoring system, overuse of natural resources, pollution, habitat destruction and many other things can degrade the very ecosystem that we rely on Attract the tourists come to the Maldives. It is our responsibility, it is all the stakeholders' responsibility to make sure monitoring system proper. We have to execute as well. We have to execute as well. And also, mr Amjad, if you go a little bit further, how about this beautiful marine echo, the marine biodiversity system about this. So it's also another challenge, social and cultural challenges. If we don't follow, then it disturbs the communities, local communities and also it strains the local, the infrastructure, the resources if you don't have that, and also because of this can also create conflict between tourists. Sorry.
Speaker 4:I would love, actually, as I just mentioned, to have unlimited time. Thank you so much for sharing insights. I'll actually come back to some of these questions in a while as well. Thank you so much, martin again, when it comes. Martin is actually someone very special when it comes to this particular subject, so we hear a lot of time. A lot of guests are voicing concerns about Maldives not implementing enough sustainable measures. Have you noticed that these concerns are leading potential repeat visitors to choose alternative destinations that prioritize sustainable tourism practices? I'm asking these questions specifically with Martin because Six Senses is actually doing a wonderful job in terms of sustainable projects as well, and then the question is if so, what steps can we take to retain and attract these environmentally conscious travelers? It's such a big business.
Speaker 7:Thank you.
Speaker 7:I think Dr Simat said it all.
Speaker 7:He showed an image that was a word chart and it said why Maldives was so important to people and it had very big beach and it had beauty and it you know exclusivity and it even had sharks and we're about maybe doing long line fishing again in the Maldives. Yes, I think guests care, the world cares, and I think sustainability has to be at the origin of everything we do and it has to be done so that sustainability is positive and not negative. And that makes the hard part of it is that it has so many elements. It has people, local communities, resort resort owners, marine environment but it needs to be one agreement where everybody goes in the same direction. And I think for me, the most telling moment here was not only the word chart and then the image of all the plastic in the ocean, because that's what guests see when they arrive into the Maldives. So I think sustainability has to be at the very core of what we stand for or we will lose our position in the tourism industry yes, that that's uh, thank you.
Speaker 4:yeah, that's actually important. That's what we are focusing on during the morning session. And the question is, martin, I understand, again, having resources far away from Mali and sustainability comes with the price itself as well, but again, the results that we actually get from it is more fruitful for a long term. And do you see guests actually choosing six census properties, in particular Lama, for example, because of your sustainability projects? How is it, do you?
Speaker 7:Yeah, I think guests are attracted to it because they're like-minded people. Are we a tourism organization? Are we offering the tourism experience? Yes, is sustainability at the very core of what we do, a hundred percent, and so I think guests feel aligned by that and feel that their values match our values and vice versa, and I think that that will only become more important in the world. I think the younger generation cares about the world and what we do to it far greater than our parents did, and in part because of everything that's said about education, about information, about and I think you know, over time, people will select sustainable brands because they feel their values align with a brand that is sustainable.
Speaker 4:Yes, thank you so much. Yeah, it is absolutely, because the market cap is extremely huge when it comes to and yes, the younger generations are actually looking more into sustainability. Thank you so much. Now I would actually go to Ruth. Ruth has been in the Maldives for a very long time. She actually probably has traveled more local islands than I have, or most of us and North Africa a lot of islands as well. The question is how can the public awareness and education be enhanced to ensure that both tourists and locals understand the importance of sustainability in the Maldives tourism industry? The reason why I'm asking this question is if you actually live in Hulumale. Just an example, just next to the jetty area, there are like within three feet, four feet, there are dustbins, but although actually it's just within reach, a lot of fellow Maldivians which actually breaks my heart I see that they throw into the streets and they believe they think that someone is going to just come and clean, take it. So where did we go wrong in your opinion and what can we do actually, Thank you.
Speaker 8:I think a lot of people have already said education and communication are the key pillars behind the three pillars of sustainability, and in order to move forward, we have to educate, and Dr Simad has already highlighted. From a destination point of view, why aren't we incorporating tourism and hospitality into our curriculum? And likewise it's, then about bringing sustainability into the curriculum also, one of the questions that we get asked a lot by tourists is about waste management, and to try and explain that to them we have to go back and it's about storytelling, exactly as Dr Simad was saying. It's not about saying the do this, don't do that. It's about explaining the why and from a waste point of view, historically everything was biodegradable. You didn't have plastic in the Maldives. It was thrown into the ocean, it was dealt with appropriately, but then along came plastic, then along came a million tourists and we find ourselves in a situation as an archipelago where we have the challenges of waste management. So, from a local's perspective, I feel and talking with the team, that it's about our job as tourism stakeholders. We hold the future of the Maldives in our hand in terms of educating about sustainability, whether that's to local communities or whether that's to our guests.
Speaker 8:It starts even before the booking process, when guests are making research. What do they see on your websites? What stories are you telling on your social media? We're all great at displaying the beautiful pictures of properties and our beaches, which is obviously what people want to see, but it is our responsibility also to educate them in when they arrive to the Maldives. What can they expect? What type of behaviours do we expect from them, and why?
Speaker 8:What is the purpose of that? It starts also with communicating with travel agents, tour operators, equipping them with the information maybe 10 top tips in terms of responsible travel to the Maldives. We have to start that conversation. We can't rely on others visiting us to pick up the mantle on our behalf. So it's about communication at all levels and at a property in a business, we have to ensure that we are communicating that to our employee team, that we have them on board, because once they are on board, they then create the storytelling conversations with the guests that they interact with. So really, it is down to that communication perspective and starting before the guest arrives in the Maldives and understanding not just the don't do, and it's about why we don't do it. What are the positive impacts that a guest can make when they travel.
Speaker 4:Thank you, ruth. So we are talking about a lot of actually awareness programs and stuff. Our generation in 1996, I think it's 1996 or 1998, we actually all the students from Mali we signed a pledge saying that we would respect the environment and we actually signed that pledge saying we will actually not be throwing plastics in the ocean and stuff like that. I haven't seen actually such a thing after that, but probably some people may have still following that actually pledge that they signed. And the question is the existing people. I try myself actually, even when I live in the resorts as well, I try to tell them what are the consequences. So, ruth, what do you think actually from the resort perspective in terms of training? We have world-class actually service industry here. What can we do to bring that into the existing generation Is?
Speaker 8:there anything? I think it's twofold. It's about utilizing the resources and the skills that we have and taking that into the community. I think it's about utilizing social media and media coverage generally in the Maldives, how often do you see an article that talks about sustainability or actions? But the reality is that sustainability is a conversation, it's a word, but ultimately it's about the longevity and protection of the destination that we all love and that we want to invite guests to. And I think changing a mindset is a hard thing to do. It doesn't happen overnight, but we have to make that start and it's very easy for small companies, I think, to look and say, right, look what the big guys are doing, we can't afford to do that, we don't have the resource. But it's about making a start on that journey and if that journey is about voicing it through your social media channels in the media, then that gets out to our local communities.
Speaker 4:Thank you. So it's all about creating awareness and it's actually today it's much easier to communicate this message than Than 15, 20 years ago. Thank you so much. Ruth Will go to Shah's.
Speaker 4:Actually, I just mentioned in my presentation as well, palau's president. I know it's such a small country, but again, we were also very small country until we reach actually 1.8 million, so they also start small. We also maintain we actually held the position of Curating sustainable experiences and stuff, but we kind of lost. But then I might be actually the state might not be 100% accurate, because a lot of resources are now actually investing into this one. So, shaz, do you think, do you see any seriousness or any concerns from what Palau's president said? The reason why I'm asking is today this was on Travel Weekly, so these are some of the powerful medias. If such kind of figures try to portray the Maldives as not a sustainable destination, it could lead to a lot of consequences. So do you believe his statement and if you do, why do you think and what do you think we actually should be doing?
Speaker 9:Thank you, abhijit. Well, we all agree that Maldives has held a position as a very sustainable destination. Can we say that now? What we do now is, oh, can we live in that glory now? That's a question we have to ask from ourselves, right?
Speaker 9:If you have seen the presentation from, I'm sure everyone has been talking about it and everyone has been very, very interested. Thank you, dr Simad. But that picture that you shared about the Maldives that beautiful beach and the coconut palms and the blue skies, that and the azure waters that's what people believe when they travel to the Maldives and that's what they're looking for. Martin is an avid diver and has an amazing underwater photography and I'm sure you know you will understand the pictures are not as colorful now as then it used to be. It seems that there is a filter on right. On the other hand, we also touch base with the local tourism and I think Amchad, you have shared a picture of Maafushi Ruth. Here runs Secret Paradise, which is the opposite of what you see in that picture, but also in the local tourism business, incorporating sustainability and culture very much into that business model.
Speaker 9:So I think growth is inevitable. We have to move forward and we have to go and agree on certain things, but the most important thing, yes, is about regularization, about communication and about being honest Most importantly, my personal feelings about what the statement was made. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of, but I think the most important thing for us is to accept the fact where we are today. Yes, we have plastic in the ocean flowing around. Yes, we have sedimentation covering our reefs. At the same time, we have these beautiful resorts coming out of nowhere, charging extreme amounts and bringing a lot of money into us. We all know how much tourism has played in our growth and in our country's economy and how much it contributes, even today, in our GDP. So it's important to balance and for us, the most important thing will be to understand where we are and we start talking about in these kind of forums. What are we going to do to change that and to change that perspective and rebuild our image of the Maldives as it used to be? Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, shaz. I will Thank you. Thank you so much, shaz, I will Thank you. I will now just pass on to the audience if you have any questions or any suggestions to the first round of what we have just discussed. Anyone anything to add? Okay, I'll keep it for the next, so I'll go back to Dr Simad. So, dr Simad, right now, given the global sustainable tourism market is projected to grow to US dollar 7.74 trillion, if you ask me if I can write it, I will have to actually use a few minutes to understand 7.74 trillions by 2031. That's only less than six years or seven years. How can the model strategically position itself to capture a significant share of this rapidly expanded market? What's your take on it?
Speaker 5:Since we are here talking about brand communication, education, engagement. I think we are doing a number of things right. So let's not be dead, learn from Bhutan and let's be very happy with what we are doing right. I would say there are only a very few things that we want to improve on, very few things, but we need to do that quickly Now to realize that. That's why I said Eid-ul-Masjid.
Speaker 5:When someone comes to the Maldives, and if we can pitch it in the same context as a Tesla, a Tesla Model Y or a Tesla 3 and an e-Dorny 1, 2, I don't know then we have the opportunity to show the young people that we continuously improve. We don't just wait for 1975 mechanization. We just keep on diesel, gasoline, dorny, no. So if we do these things constantly, let's say somebody comes to the Vilana International Airport, unfortunately they might have to take a seaplane transfer to some of these islands, especially in the not-so-kind weather. In that context, would there be driving, self-automated cars, automated driverless cars, electric cars? We know that there are a few brands who have actually started using Tesla and other brands in the airport and it's good that the CEO of MSCL has said that they will be going fully renewable for the airport operations. What are the next steps? We need to be alert, continuously learning, communicating and engaging. Now that we have got the beautiful glass bottles which everybody puts on their Instagram you just asked about local inhabited islands when would we have these glass bottles? Who would go and show them the way? Who would show them how to do these kind of caps not the difficult ones? So this is all knowledge communication, and I would say that if we have the botulin facilities established in the tourism zones, maybe we wouldn't have a plastic problem. Now let me tell you, mali Hulumalé is great stuff. They even call it Greater Malé. So I don't know how we will tackle that, but when it comes to the inhabited islands, the guest houses, the local tourism community, tourism resorts, I am fully confident it can be done. But I don't understand when it comes to the sustainability, especially in the greater Mali region, because what we are doing is quite something else.
Speaker 5:Then comes the question of communicating and educating. Maldivian young people are listening, not to us, not to the teachers. Who are they listening to? What are they eating? What are they talking about?
Speaker 5:Someone told me the other day Simad, go, have a look at the customs import stats to see that there is a particular brand of noodles that has become very popular. So I said I never knew that this is a very popular. Of course, I don't apply many of the lotions and other shampoos and other things. Apparently, there is from one country that we are importing this shampoo and makeup and things. Why? Because the Koreans got it right. These South Koreans have got it right. They are reaching out to the 10,000, 15,000 Maldivian kids. I'm sure the parents here would know what I'm talking about. They watch their cartoons, they watch their movies and happily, amjad, they even speak Korean. So there are ways of doing this movies and happily, amjad, they even speak Korean. So there are ways of doing this. We just need to be innovative and find out how to reach out, how to communicate, how to educate and then also make it meaningful.
Speaker 4:Thank, you and Dr Simad, just in addition to that, right now we actually we are keeping the dollars, or a lot of actually the entrepreneurs who are coming into the guest house industry, which actually started as a very beautiful message, passing three to four rooms house if you have one room, just actually give it to sell it to a guest, or even actually a smaller scale but right now, these tall buildings and everything.
Speaker 4:So how can, as a destination, right now MNPRC is trying to incorporate obviously the resorts, the guest houses and then, of course, liveaboard and everything into the destination, because that's what we have and we have to continue. So, for new aspirational businessmen or who wants to become owners of guest houses, can you just tell us what they can actually do to achieve that sustainable model and also how to attract sustainable customers? Because I'm not sure, unlike Six Senses, where they can spread the message very quickly and when someone just talks about Six Senses, everyone knows about the sustainability, everything incorporated with the brand, but guest houses are becoming an issue. So how we can actually communicate that to the outer world, encouraging the locals to follow more of a sustainable model than quick dollars.
Speaker 5:Thank you. I think that's the million-dollar question. If I have a good answer for that, the Maldives tourism industry would be sleeping very peacefully. With regard to what is happening in a few of these islands I must add, only a very few islands the issue is but how do we convince the new investors as to what is the right model? What's the good, local tourism model or community-based tourism? I think this is something which we need to really seriously discuss. Why? What's the motivation? What's going on? Understand what's happening. Is it to do with lack of regulation? Maybe not. Is it them not having enough information? What works, what does not work?
Speaker 5:Or is it just an image that we have that having a 10-story building with so many rooms, that this is the best model of tourism where we will get good investment returns? Now, amjad, I think what I see and I've been considering this for a while is Taddu. I don't hear about Taddu a lot in these forums, but I hear that they are doing really well. They are maintaining the standards and they are getting the locals to invest. So can we recognize what is good? Can we publicize what is good so that people know that this is perhaps something that they could also imitate and then try to do so, finding out what are the good models, what are the good standards, what are the things that need to be there? One more thing the more I think about it, I think that we have got the wrong mindset. The more I think about it. I think that we have got the wrong mindset. I think we have established this that tourist resorts, luxury resorts, excellent, very good. When it comes to inhabited local islands, not so good, poor, not so good, poor. Let me put this if Ong Bang Seng decides to invest in a resort on Kamadu, what would happen? I don't know, because we think that in Inhabited Island tourism is low, low quality, poor man's investment or poor woman's investment. So if we have that mindset, I think we will always have this issue.
Speaker 5:Now Maldives has achieved this recognition. The standards should be the same. The standards should be the same, the investors should be there. It's just a subtle difference there is, for me. There is exclusive islands for tourists, exclusive tourist islands. Then there's the inclusive islands, local islands, I don't know something along those lines, but they both must be premium, they both must be high quality, they both must be protecting the environment. They both must be high quality, they both must be protecting the environment. They both must realize how high a tree is and what's the highest tree on the island. So I think that's what I think.
Speaker 4:No, thank you. Thank you, dr Simad, once again, jihad. When it comes to the sustainability, again, a lot of time actually, we look at in the context of environment only, but environment also comes with a lot of other aspects as well. Locals, the local involvement in the tourism industry, is actually getting lower and lower, probably for a couple of reasons, maybe not necessarily actually some big issues there. The question is how can we actually bring in more locals into the, not just about resorts only, but in general to the industry, because this is the main industry of the Maldives.
Speaker 6:Thank you, amjad, last five years. Thank you, amjad, last five years. I believe the colleagues from the Maldives they will agree with me we have seen significant participation, contribution from the local leaders. And one thing I'm very happy to see the government authorities and other regulatory bodies they encourage all the resort owners to consider give more responsibilities. Decision-making positions from the government, from the stakeholders, is very vital and we are very happy to see the growth and the significant participation from the local leaders. The other we are very pleased to hear from the government and also from the local leaders. The other we are very pleased to hear from the government and also from the other stakeholders to support young Maldivians, entrepreneurs for small business and something fascinating, from local islands in Maldives we see the more young, talented locals are participating as well.
Speaker 6:I believe here all our panels education, awareness, training and skill training and have why not? We have, mr Amjad sustainability champions from the local community through them, the awareness programs as well, and also promoting different culture, other new tourism opportunities. I think that's something very important. We are very happy to see more locals are participating, involving in decision-making discussion as well, and I have no doubt with this kind of forums we're going to see more. Local leaders and other members are participating and other members are participating. Last point is, mr Amjad. Always we discuss about why we have only few ladies. I'm very happy to see Shahz here, but the question is how can we bring more talented girls? We have so many and also we see from the marketing, from the other areas we see more young Maldivian girls as well, so the future always looks brighter. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you, jihad. You may recall, during the President Mahmood's regime, late 90s and early 2020s, he introduced something called Greenleaf Award. We don't see such initiatives any longer, where actually the president himself was giving the awards for tourism establishments who came with these kind of initiatives, whether it's talent developments or whether it's sustainable initiatives and stuff like that. As senior actually some of the seniors in the industry here together, all of us what can we do If we just rely heavily on the government? Probably we would actually end up going nowhere as an industry. Do you see that we all can actually come to an agreement for such kind of initiatives and build probably a nationwide framework for developers and stuff like that? Do you see something that is possible? Do you think everyone would agree to such?
Speaker 6:Thank you, amjad. This is a clear testimony of the unwavering support from the stakeholders and the local leaders, the support frequency, so I have no doubt, initiatives like this and coming together from all the leaders and all the stakeholders, I see that everybody will agree that recognition, reward, incentives can motivate more local people coming to the industry. And all of us, we are on the same page when it comes to the opportunities for the locals as well. As I mentioned before, the last few years we see more participation, more as well. If we come all together and have a national framework for bringing more people, I have no doubt we can achieve a lot.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much, jihad. Now I will go to Martin Martin. You actually rightly mentioned about the Maldives going back and introducing long line fishing. Right now it's actually going as a quite heated debate between both sides in terms of the tourism Sorry, fisheries sector, and then the government as well From the sustainable point of view. I remember in actually early 2000 there was a slogan which was promoted buying stops when selling stops, which is actually when they wanted to stop the export of shark fins business because they didn't want to immediately to stop that business. Right now we are just going back to the same situation where we were 25 to 30 years ago. What do you think from the guest perspective? How would they see it, especially from environmental perspective? Do you think it's going to bring a lot of negative consequences?
Speaker 7:I think it'll destroy tourism. I think Maldives, in part, is so well known for its incredible underwater world. We attract a lot of people that come diving, snorkeling. Sustainable fishing is available. We've just had tremendous coral bleaching a couple of months ago. Reefs are recovering, but at a slower rate. If you now allow long line fishing again and you'll have images of sharks and rays attached by accident, I think in all the areas where we compete with other countries for the tourist, there's better diving, there's's better on the water world out there without long-lung fishing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you. There was also a debate actually going between the tourism sector and then the local community saying about the shark actually fishing. So the tourism sector very much saying it's better to keep actually shark alive and actually get more dollar by watching it than actually killing it. So we are actually going back almost backward on the subject. I wish actually the tourism minister was here so we could actually just let him pass the message to the minister of fisheries as well. But what we will do is actually as an NGO and together with all of us and other NGOs, we will also try to get a voice on this subject, because we also feel exactly the same thing as well. Thank you, martin, and I'll go to the Ruth.
Speaker 4:From what you have seen in the Maldives actually, especially in terms of the local tourism, and not only local tourism alone, but in terms of overdevelopment, how does the concept of over-tourism apply to the Maldives and what are the potential consequences of this? So the question is, dr Sima, that you highlighted in his presentation when there is or, just like you mentioned, when there is demand, you think that the next development is what is required and that it just continues. There is no end to it and Maldives being such a small destination, only 1% of the country is land. There is a certain level that we can actually go, so what do you think about? How do you come up with this?
Speaker 8:Thank you, you're welcome. I think when people mention over tourism we start thinking about destinations in Europe, perhaps Venice particularly, and don't necessarily believe that it applies to the Maldives. And I guess from a resort concept it doesn't, because on a resort you have a set number of beds, you're not going to get a rush or an influx of people that aren't booked with you. But then when we look outside of the resort industry, at local islands, we are in a situation, particularly within the central third of the Maldives, where I feel over-tourism through development is at the cusp and it's very quickly going to go over the edge. Over-tourism obviously has an impact on our resources, our natural resources, the infrastructure of local islands and ultimately that could impact the culture and traditions of the Maldives. They could die out because the level of tourists on an island becomes far greater than the population, because the level of tourists on an island becomes far greater than the population.
Speaker 8:We have over-tourism in a number of marine hotspots. I'm happy to say that at the end of this month the EPA will be launching the management plan for Sampa, which is long overdue. But we're in a position where we have created that over-tourism because we are selling an experience that should be positive both for the marine life and for the guest at a rate that is probably at a local island level can be as low as $50 per person, whereas if you go to other destinations where they have these wonderful encounters with marine life, guests are paying 150, 200 bucks, which really gives the question of are we actually acknowledging the cost and the profitability of our marine life? Are we actually looking at what it's worth in order to view it? And there are people that come to the Maldives specifically for different marine life encounters. There are many of our guests that come because they want to stay on a local island in a small guest house, to be able to engage with locals, eat dinner over the table with a local family.
Speaker 8:And, from an over-tourism point of view, we are in an area of danger where we can either put a line in the sand and say this is where we're at now and how do we change it and how do we capacity build for the future so that it benefits everybody and also benefits the environment. Ultimately, because of over-tourism, we could lose visitors, because we disrupt the reason that they're visiting the Maldives now those beautiful beaches and potentially perhaps then impact a future investment, be that green or blue economy investment. So I think we are at a point now where we have to make some very hard decisions. We can't change the past, but we can certainly change our future.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, ruth, and I will actually pass the next question to Shaz Shaz. You have been in Mar-a-Lago actually both sides. For question to Shaz Shaz you have been in Mal et al actually both sites for quite a long time. One of the actually main primary reason for most of the visitors to the Maldives is about the vibrant marine life, the underwater, the snorkeling or the diving. So the question is with the rapid and uncontrollable developments in both the south and north Malay Toll, these underwater experiences are being negatively impacted. Every single lagoon is being developed. Do you believe that this could lead to a decline in potential business for Malay Toll in the future? Because right now, if you look at it from a business point of view, speedboat resource are actually doing extremely well and the question is is it sustainable, for how long actually they can sustain? If the model was supposed to be actually about vibrant marine life, do you see actually people already complaining about it?
Speaker 9:Thank you, amjad. I think this is not going to be an issue only for Malay Choll, for any tourist hub. When you look at the north and the southern parts, there are certain places where you have more resorts and islands concentrated. So there will obviously be that. But what we'll have to think about is the guests coming to the Maldives, especially staying in the Malay Choll area. The main reason for them to stay in these resorts is it because of the diving and the snorkelling? Maybe, but I think, most importantly, there could be other factors as well, like the proximity to the airport, ease of travel and also the choices of move-around and different luxury, mid and lower-bud budget hotels and resorts around. So that could be one of the reasons. Having said that, when you have a problem or an issue of dying reefs and if you don't get that experience from a spend perspective, the guests are not going to be paying for a medical experience perspective. The guests are not going to be paying for a medical experience. So the experiential spend that you get from them obviously will be declining and you will see I'm sure everybody will agree that you will see a decline in there right.
Speaker 9:Another thing is also that the skyline has completely changed around this area. I'm not sure how many of you have noticed. For me for sure, this is coming to Kurumbayat and this is my returning after three or four years, and what I have seen on the way at the horizon was quite shocking, to be honest, and I can only understand and be. You know, be mindful and appreciate what the guest is going through, especially when you're staying in a place so close to that. I am in a property where Mafushi is very close the tall buildings on a small island, the continuous music and rotating lights and weekend discourse has become the norm and it's replacing the tranquility of the starry nights. Now, is that what we want? So that's again a question and something that we have to think about.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. I believe that we all have actually similar concerns and since Dr Simad has actually taken us through all the details of what we could actually just be thinking, we'll actually just open the floor. If you have any questions to the panelists, please.
Speaker 10:yes, Thank you all for a very enlightening panel discussion. When we talk of over-tourism, I just want to ask Ruth and Simal and them can we define it in the Maldives context in terms of numbers? So we always talk about increasing numbers. When do we say, okay, we are now experiencing over-tourism If we have targets of 3 million, 4 million, 5 million tourists? Have you guys thought about it, or is that something we should think about it in the really long-term future?
Speaker 8:I'm a great believer that we need to change our mindset of measuring success in arrival numbers, and that's not just the Maldives alone, that's destinations worldwide and we should be measuring on the positive impact our guests bring to the Maldives. I think my own personal opinion in terms of over-tourism at this moment in time it's about development. How far do we develop? How many more lagoons do we reclaim? How many more islands do we turn into what marfushi stands for, as opposed to numbers of arrivals? But certainly for me, the big thing would be let's stop counting arrivals. That's not what's important. It's the positive impact that those people bring to our destination, in our communities thank you thank you, rafael.
Speaker 5:Such a good question. How do we set carrying capacity limits and then decide? We have done it in the past For the small island resorts. We did it, maybe arbitrary numbers, but it worked. 20% can only be developed so many length meters should be allocated for every room. We followed those and maybe that's the reason why Maldives tourism became so successful, because there could have been resorts full of rooms and no privacy at all for the guests, but we did do that. So we do have the opportunity to go back, revisit them and then find out if the same thing can be applied for the islands.
Speaker 5:Maybe, rafael, to answer your question, maybe we look at Singapore and what their housing policy has been, where the sky is the limit because of their land shortage, and maybe we started believing so as well. So maybe tree is the limit. The highest, longest tree, highest tree is the limit, if we can have something like that. I think this will address the question. And one more thing I wanted to mention here is perhaps it's time we start bringing in the international sustainability standards set in organizations, the conferences, the certification bodies to the Maldives, so that we just don't fill a form and then get the Green Globe certification.
Speaker 5:Many resorts are doing sustainability reporting. It's so good to see that these reports are available on their website and if there are any issues, they are quite keen to even email a copy of the PDF documents. So a lot of good things are happening. So now let's start exchanging the ideas. Bring those bodies here Cornell, global Sustainable Tourism Council and others their meetings. Maybe good business during the months of May, june, july, when they also could come here and then contribute to what we are doing for sustainability.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
