58. Love, Truth, and Identity: Ministering to Those Navigating Sexual Identity with Kyla Gillespie

How can the church faithfully respond to questions of gender and sexual identity with both biblical truth and Christlike compassion?

In this episode of the ETCH Next Gen Podcast, Chuck Peters sits down with Kyla Gillespie to hear her powerful story of discovering her true identity in Christ. Through her personal journey, Kyla offers hope for anyone wrestling with questions of identity while equipping ministry leaders and parents to engage these conversations with wisdom, grace, and conviction.

Together, Chuck and Kyla discuss the importance of building genuine relationships, leading with compassion, and speaking biblical truth in a way that reflects the heart of Jesus. Rather than reducing people to issues, they emphasize seeing every person as someone deeply loved by God and worthy of dignity, care, and discipleship.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that while culture continues to shift, the gospel offers lasting hope, true identity, and transforming grace for every person.

Subscribe to the ETCH Next Gen Podcast for more conversations that equip church leaders to disciple the next generation with biblical wisdom, cultural awareness, and practical ministry insight.

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Transformed by Kyla Gillespie

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Transcript

Welcome And Content Advisory

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. We are here to help you understand the unique cultural needs of Gen Z and Generation Alpha. I'm your host, Chuck Peters, and I'm so glad you're here today. This is the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast. I'm your host, Chuck Peters, and today's conversation is one that you are not gonna want to miss. Our guest today is a new friend of mine. Her name is Kyla Gillespie. She's a passionate leader and communicator. She's an advocate who has dedicated her life to helping the next generation know and follow Jesus through her ministry, which is really unique. Kyla has an amazing testimony of how God worked in her life at the intersection of faith and identity and the real life struggle that she went through and that many of our young people are going through today. She wants to come alongside young people and leaders alike with honesty, compassion, and gospel-centered hope. And what I appreciate about Kyla is that she doesn't shy away from hard conversations because she has really benefited from them in her own story. She brings truth and grace to some topics that can feel overwhelming and uncomfortable for some of us as leaders, especially for leaders as we try to disciple kids and students in today's culture. So before we jump in, I do want to give you just a quick and a soft note for those who may have uh younger ears nearby as you listen. Some of the themes in today's episode are more mature in nature and might require a bit of discretion depending on your context and the kids that are around you. And so I want to uh give you a heads up that we're gonna be talking about gender dysphoria and uh gender identity and some issues that are kind of serious and weighty that we all are needing to address in the culture. And so as Kyla shares her testimony and her story of how God worked in her life through transition and then detransitioning and the way that God got a hold of her, it's a powerful story. It'll be very helpful to us as we lead in kids and student ministry, but the things that she covers just may or may not be appropriate for younger ears. So please use discretion. Uh, Kyla is going to share her own story about her journey, what God taught her along the way, and how that shapes the work that she's doing now to serve the next generation and the ministries that you have for them. So whether you're driving, walking, getting ready for your next ministry moment, lean in. I think this is a conversation that will challenge you, encourage you, and equip you for success. And at the very end, if this is a topic that you need more information on, stick around for the end of the show when I tell you where you can find Kyla's book, Transformed. Now, welcome to

Meeting Kyla And Her Story

SPEAKER_00 2:55

the podcast, Kyla Gillespie. Hey listeners, welcome back to another episode of the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast, where we help you build a ministry that has a lasting mark on the next generation. Today's conversation is one that you really need to hear. Uh, because whether you're leading kids, students, in their families, um, you're probably already encountering questions around identity, around gender, and what it means to follow Jesus in a culture that is redefining both of those things. Uh, today's guest isn't coming with theory, she's coming with a story. And it's a story about her life and her journey, a story that moves from confusion to transition to ultimately finding identity in Christ, which is what we want for all of our kids. And so, Kyla Gillespie, welcome to the Etch podcast.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Hi, Chuck. It's such an honor to be here with you. I'm really excited for our conversation. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Uh, your story is just so amazing and compelling and perfectly um timely for the things that we're dealing with in the church. Before we go there, I just have to say you are in Canada. So you're Canadian. Yes. And I couldn't help, just as we were chatting before we started recording, that you do say about. I just, yeah, I just I love those little nuances in in language. Right, right. So what is it like growing up in Canada? I know one of your part of your story is you were a hockey player. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

So hockey hockey's pretty big in Canada, as we know. It's also really big in the US. Um but every, I think every child and every little girl and boy, girl now, because they have the professional women's hockey league, which is amazing. Uh, we dreamt about that while we were playing hockey. Um, it gives us opportunity to dream. And so in Canada, the dream is one day for most boys, I would think, is to, you know, lift the Stanley Cup over their head and cheer. And for the women is to lift the Walter Cup up and and cheer with their teammates and and win the ultimate prize in hockey. So yeah, I I grew up with a a very athletic family and and a deep love for hockey and also baseball, as you can see. I'm a huge Toronto Blue Jays fan.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Uh, you know what? I happen, I don't know why, but I happen to have a baseball on my desk right now. So it showed up out of the blue on my desk. I'm sure that somebody in my family found it somewhere, thought it was mine. Uh so okay, so hockey with as I go back to hockey, so um I I automatically just go to Gretzky as like the guy who is the hero that everybody wanted to be. Is is Wayne Gretzky the guy for your generation in Canada, or is it somebody else?

SPEAKER_02 5:44

I would say Wayne Gretzky is like uh yeah, a huge hockey player that we're like the Lionel Messi.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

And and Cindy Crosby uh is huge. Um, yeah. So uh I grew up with like um Trevor Linden and all the old Vancouver Canucks players that I looked up to. Pavel Bure was one of my favorite hockey players. Um I was gonna ask what your team was.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, so it's the Canucks.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Vancouver Canucks.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Okay. Well, I so I live in Nashville now, and so we're we're big predators people around here. So it was kind of funny that hockey would be so big in the South in the Bible belt here in Nashville, but man, the predators have really got a great following.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

And and the Vancouver Canucks usually we're not gonna talk about how they did this year. However, uh, we usually do compete with you a lot.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Well, so fun. So fun. Sometime when you come to Nashville, maybe we can get some tickets and get a good life way friends to go watch some hockey together. That would be amazing. Uh so Kyla,

Growing Up Canadian And Hockey

SPEAKER_00 6:45

okay, God has given you an amazing story. Uh if you would, let's take a few minutes and just kind of let you tell your story. Uh, going back to childhood, take us back uh to your early childhood, your family story, and uh I'll just let you talk about some of the things that you were experiencing even as a young child. Uh so tell us some of your story.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

All right. Yeah, I grew up actually, um, Vancouver is about a um two-hour ferry ride from where I grew up. I grew up on Vancouver Island, uh, you know, just beautiful, surrounded by lakes and um the ocean and trees and mountains. Um, but I grew up in a Christian home. My both my parents loved Jesus. We were heavily involved in the church. So at a very young age, I just remember loving Jesus. It was easy for me. Um, I did. And so that that's uh a staple in my life as a child. Um and it happened really early um where I started to feel different from most little girls. And and I won't share, like, if you want, want to grab the book, I go into lots of detail about this, but I will share uh specific moments in my life where I realized, like in some little capacity, that I wasn't a boy and I was really confused. And so one was uh about five years old. I was put in figure skating where my younger cousin, Chris, uh he was in hockey, and so was my older brother, and my family loved, like I said, the Vancouver Canucks. And so all I wanted to do is play hockey. But of course, I was also born in the 1980s, and so there was no gender-specific hockey teams. Um, so after a fiasco for my figure skating event, um, my parents put me into hockey after crying and begging. And when I was in hockey uh on Vancouver Island, I was the only girl. And so I just thought, like most probably most little girls or boys, they don't really think about their sexuality at that time or have any language really about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

How old would you have been at this time?

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah, five or six years old. Five or six, okay, really little. Pretty, pretty young. And uh, my parents came to me, and there was a moment where they said you have to start changing in a different dressing room. So coaches had to ask them and parents, uh, and I realized, whoa, like I I mean, like I said, no language, but I just was like, why am I not a boy? Um, and then I felt, yeah, uh confused. And so those were particular moments in my life at a very, very young age where I realized I was different. And so I would grow up, you know, loving everything that my brother and my cousin loved, um, everything that my dad loved. I loved playing outside. I loved, you know, more uh typical boy toys that we call we would call it, like BMX, biking, and micro machines and fishing and hockey and sports and all that kind of stuff. So I grew into this I identity kind of thing that was more of a tomboy. Right. And so I embraced that because it allowed me to express myself. I was really gifted too with athletics, just like my dad's family. A lot of them were gifted. And so I went with that. And it was probably um in my teen years, like as I started to go to youth group, and I started to become friends, you know, really close friends with other girls

Early Confusion And Feeling Different

SPEAKER_02 10:20

in the in the youth group. And, you know, we're hitting puberty and we're realizing like, oh, they're attracted to the opposite sex, they're getting crushes on the opposite sex. And I realized like really painfully that I had, you know, a crush on a girl, like my my really close friend at youth group. And I had been raised in a Christian home. So I knew a lot of the Bible by that, by that time. And I had just concluded that something like must be deeply wrong with me if I'm having these unwanted feelings and desires, that I concluded because I had heard it around the Christian circles, that homosexuality was really bad. That's how I concluded. And so I realized that I had same-sex attraction very young, um, you know, in my teen years. And I really had a love for Jesus, still wanted to share uh Jesus with everyone. We were entrenched within our church, uh, good community, aunts became or uh friends became aunts, like such as a close community, the church is. And uh yeah, I started to embrace my uh more masculine side, uh, the tomboy side, and also uh suppress the feelings of being different, uh, the feelings of having this same, you know, attraction to my friends at youth group that were girls. And and so I became, you know, really angry inside.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah, I can see how that would be you'd have a lot of conflict in there with your upbringing and all the things that you that were so dear to you in your relationship with the Lord and the church, and then all these feelings that you didn't know what to do with. So um

Puberty And Same Sex Attraction

SPEAKER_00 12:05

uh through high school and then beyond that, you actually made a decision to transition. Right. Tell us about that part of your story.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah. So there were particular moments in my child or in my teen years and young adult years where uh like my parents got divorced at the age of 14, and that really separated our family. My mom ended up getting remarried, and he was an unbeliever, which was like unheard of growing up in a Christian home. And then my dad ended up marrying a woman with five kids, and I was really displaced. Like I didn't I felt over the years that I didn't belong at my dad's house, and I felt uh like I could go to my mom's, but I I was really uprooted teenager. And so as I was uh, you know, getting getting into high, high uh level of hockey on the island, they didn't have much of a high performance hockey. So I talked to some friends and they were playing hockey in a at a triple-A level for women's. And I heard that my friends were there from camps and stuff, and they said, Well, this is a really good league to get scouted for the national program, which was uh in Calgary, Alberta. And this was a centralization for Team Canada. Uh, so if you wanted to make the team, that was the place to get scouted and to I ended up making the team in Vancouver and ended up going to the championship game. Wow. Wow. Yeah, and then I got scouted. Um, and it was a dream come true. I was like, oh my goodness, I get to not only leave uh the place where I felt so much brokenness, um, so much rejection from my dad, uh, I called the island my Elcatras. Um, all I wanted to do was leave it. And so when I got scouted to go and move to Calgary, Alberta, it's about a 12-hour drive from Vancouver. Um, I was, yeah, I was so happy. And so I ended up going there. But the problem with that is I still loved Jesus. I was wrestling with my sexuality, I was wrestling with my gender a lot, feeling awkward and different in my own body. Like I started to meet like LGBTQ women for the first time that were expressing themselves more as Butch women and inside of me, not vocalizing it, but I was like, oh my goodness, they seem to have the same experience as me. And so as I watched them, and I and I say this, you know, very loosely, but freedom that they had to express themselves, uh, I wanted that, but I just didn't know how I could reconcile my sexuality and my gender and and following Jesus. So I moved to Calgary uh at the age of 19, where I started to play high performance hockey with the national program. And uh I met other people that were in the LGBTQ plus community. So I was really getting to know people, like real life people that were uh had the same experience as me. Um, and I and I really was telling them, like, no, I'm not gay. I love Jesus. Um, but people would say, well, you're just gay and you just don't know it yet. And of course I would take that home and I would wrestle with it and I would pray to God every day that He would take those feelings away. And so I came out as gay when I was 23, when I felt like there was no uh option for me to walk with Jesus and have these same-sex attraction, the same sex attraction. I know that I, you know, looking back, I can see now with the perspective that I have, that I had a distorted view of the gospel, like if I and God's character, if I would have known and we would have had conversations back in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, there was very little conversation around sexuality and gender. And so um, I had a distorted view. I thought that I had to clean myself up before I could be accepted by Jesus. But now I know that that's a lie. Uh He invites us to come broken as we are. That's why he died on the cross for us. Uh and then he does the work by way of the Holy Spirit within us to transform us and have desires that are of him and of the spirit rather than my own desires. And so as I was, you know, playing hockey and out in the LGBTQ, uh, LGBTQ plus community, it was probably at about like 28 where I started to really experience like tangible, extreme gender dysphoria. And I had met already maybe a few trans people that I was watching them transform right in front of my eyes and them express like the joy and like I said before, with the freedom that they displayed in front of me. And so I wrestled with that for quite a few years, but it wasn't until I was about 30 years old where I really started to come out um as transgender. And sorry, I gave you a backstory because um that's how it kind of came to be. And so at that point I had said, God, I don't know how to reconcile these things. I kind of saw it black and white. Either I can follow Jesus in this direction or I can have this other life so far apart from him. And it did, it broke my heart. Um and yeah, I ended up transitioning when I came because I had a problem with alcohol. Uh, alcohol numbed the pain, uh, allowed me to live that life without like really feeling the shame and the guilt sometimes of the life I was living so far apart from God. And it just numbed me. And I had a problem. I was playing hockey at the highest level. I own my own business, um, very active playing professional women's hockey in the National Women's Hockey League and the Western Women's

Coming Out And Transitioning

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Hockey League, but my life was falling apart. And so I went into a women's uh recovery house. Actually, I moved from Alberta to Vancouver back there to play. And I ended up going into a local recovery house in the area that I was living in, uh, the Tri-City Coquitlam area. And this happened to be a Christian home where they it was mandatory for us to go to church. And it was hard for me to go to church because I had a girlfriend and I was living this other life, but I had shared with everyone personally about probably a few months into uh being uh in recovery that I was going to transition, that I felt that God had made a mistake with my gender and I was born. We talk about the language about being born in the wrong body. That's what I expressed. And I just decided that I can't live like this anymore. Uh, it was so terrible. I was depressed, uh, just so much anxiety around these things, you know, being misgendered all my life and being frustrated. Uh and so I ended up transitioning in 2011. And it wasn't cool back then. Like now it is more popular. Uh, it is more of a common, yeah. Yeah, it's more of a belonging thing. Uh, we'll talk later about identity, like what we're searching for in life, um, and all those kind of things. So it wasn't popular back then. Uh and it wasn't very easy for me to transition because I I knew that it would break my mom's heart. And I ended up telling her to, and and it, it did. It really caused a rift between us. Although I knew, and she mentioned this many, many times, like she loved me unconditionally, but she just didn't know how to accept me as as a trans person, as identifying as male. And my name was Bryson at the time. And so um, that's when I ended up transitioning in 2011.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

And then is it was it six years then that you lived as a male?

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah. So I started on testosterone, went through the process of transition here in Canada. Uh, the government supports trans uh, you know, medical transition. And so uh the government covers all of that. And so I started the process, uh, yeah, and lived as Bryson for six years. Um, I thought that that was gonna be my life forever. I didn't expect uh, you know, what came. And I know we're gonna talk about this later, but it was probably about five years into my transition, where I was still going to this ministry that was mandatory for us to go to when I was in the women's recovery house. Uh, it was called God Rock. And um, it was great. It was accepting, and no one really said much about my transition or who I was before. They just accepted me. The ministry itself was very welcoming. Um, but it wasn't until about five years where new people took over the ministry. And the ministry was very uh, let's say, you know, not digging into the word of God, not uh experiencing the body of Christ, like having um Bible studies or home groups and community groups, but these new people, Pastor BJ and Jess, which I talk about in my um book, uh amazing people, and they opened up the word of God and really started to, I started to have this passion and desire. Because I love the word of God. I just didn't know how to reconcile the two still.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah.

A Church That Stays Close

SPEAKER_02 22:05

And so it was five years when I met those people.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And so then uh you had, would you call it a fresh encounter with God? How would you characterize what happened then? And then you actually detransitioned. Tell us that part of the story. It was uh what did what did God do in that moment?

SPEAKER_02 22:25

It was something that I never ever expected. Although why wouldn't I expect it to a God where there's you know nothing that's impossible for him to do? And he literally, this is what he does, he transforms lives. And so it was a huge rustle and and getting to know these people. They started to, at the community groups, open up their brokenness. They started to talk about the stuff that we might have kept secret in the quiet places of our lives and our heart. And I could see the vulnerability. And what's cool about vulnerability is that vulnerability creates vulnerability. It's a culture. Um, and so as they were pouring out their brokenness and how God met them in their, you know, their testimonies, uh, I started to think like, man, these people are really cool. Like I've always just desired to know Christians who love Jesus more than themselves, who are real and raw and that do life together. Like I believed that that was what Christianity was, and it is. And so when I started to watch them, um, I started to feel like I had this big secret, like literally, uh, you know, over 30 years, well, yeah, 30 years living as Kyla, biological female. And now five years into my transition, they had no clue that I was born female. And so after I knew that they were not, they were trustworthy people. I took the past. Yeah, they were safe and trustworthy people. Um, and I didn't feel like they were just gonna like go, oh my goodness, like once you tell me your story, like I can't handle that, I can't deal with that, I have no clue how to walk with you. But that wasn't the way that they lived their lives. And so um I took BJ and Jess, the pastor and his wife, aside um and started to share my heart with them and and and just poured it all out. And while I was doing that, um I remembered BJ just looking at me and saying, like Bryson at the time, like we love you even more. And I asked him what he meant by that, because it's not that he affirmed everything that I was doing or living. Um, he held to a biblical sexual ethic. Um, yeah, that marriage was a union between one man and one woman. And I knew that they held to that. But what I couldn't um what what kept showing up in our relationship is that they loved me and they weren't going anywhere. And so when I asked him what he meant by that, he meant that my vulnerability in those moments allowed him and Jess to love me more because I wasn't hiding things, because we could actually be real and raw with each other. And I just remember them saying, like, we're all in, like we follow the Bible, like we, it's the ultimate authority over our lives, and we would love to just walk with you in this if you are willing. And I don't know, it was just the Holy Spirit in me, like working that I said, okay, I'm all in.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

But I had no clue what that actually meant or looked like. Um, and I remember them ex asking for grace to be extended between us. Uh, they said, you know, like we're gonna need so much grace as we do this together. We've never walked with a trans person before. Um, we're gonna mess up. You know, like, would you extend that grace to us when we do? And I said, absolutely, you know, like for sure. And then in that moment, I kind of looked at myself and I realized I need to extend, ask for grace extended to me because I was gonna get defensive. Like when it hurt, I might, you know, back away from them and do things and say things that I don't mean. Um, so I ended up asking for that grace to be extended. And so we we walked with each other for a good year and a half, where they just loved me, where my passion for the word of God uh started to penetrate my heart. Um, I was watching lots of sermons. I would go back to them uh all the time and say, like, hey, I watched this, what does this mean to me? But I remember one particular moment when I went to BJ and I said, BJ, like, do you think that if I died today that I would be with Jesus forever? And it killed me. And of course, because he is so kind and gentle, he explained the gospel to me that we're saved by faith and grace alone. And uh, but true repentance um bears fruit. Like we we turn away from those things that were harmful and and and actually um separate us from God and we actually go in the opposite direction. And so then I started to ask myself like really deep questions, and I was so fearful of asking God those questions because I didn't want to hear what he had to say. But I was at the end and I was asking him deep questions like, do I have the right to, you know, choose uh change my gender and choose my own gender? Uh and so I would wrestle with those questions until one day, after a year and a half of walking with them, uh, just so gracefully walking with

Hearing God And Detransitioning

SPEAKER_02 27:55

them, um, I just was in my room on my floor crying. And I was desperate for God to rescue me. Like I was at the end of myself. Like I didn't feel like I could live this life anymore, uh, this lie that I was living, um, this separation from intimacy with God that was blocking me, like it was blocking me from living my full life that uh and the purposes and plans uh that he had as a biological woman. And I started to see that. And so I cried out to God in that moment and I'm like, God, what do you want from me? And how do I follow you? And and I just heard him speak so deeply to my spirit and my soul, is like he said, return to me, Kyla. And like I said, God, but like I don't know if I could ever be female again. Because I had already had some surgeries and lived uh as male for more than six years. And and he said these two things as I was crying out to him, do you trust me and are you willing? And in that moment, like when God meets you, like the living God meets you so powerfully in those moments where you feel his presence so deep. Um, all I could cry out was yes. And I shared that the next day with Jess and my pastor and a couple of the other leaders. And we just worshiped, we cried, we prayed together. Um, and it was a crazy time because the reality was I didn't know what it would look like to detransition. Uh, but I believe that I had no other choice but to follow Jesus because I felt so deeply that my full satisfaction and joy would be in who he created me to be, not in who I decided to try to create on the outside. And so, yes, it was very difficult to detransition. There was a long period of time of a year where like I Jess and BJ invited me to live in their home so I could go through the process and the pain and just like the redemption work that God needed to do deep inside my soul. And so we did that for over a year. And now it's been about nine and a half years. I just, you know, have a ministry that I share the good news of Jesus. Uh, I'm grateful to be on this podcast because I get to uh share about my story and testimony and give God glory. Um, yeah, so I'm grateful that he met me and I'm grateful, so grateful that there were people willing to walk in the messy parts of my life with me, uh, trusting more than themselves that the Holy Spirit had the power to transform me.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Amen. Man, Kyla, what a what a remarkable story that God has given you. So there are so many things that stand out to me as I listen to you tell your story. There, you know, there's a lot of themes that we kind of revisit

Why Belonging Shapes Identity

SPEAKER_00 30:55

through our our uh this show through through etch and our conversations, the research that we've done. We know that Gen Z and Alpha have this deep need to find belonging someplace. I see how your need to find a place to belong, first through hockey and then in the LGBTQ uh community, that that sense of belonging is something that had an influence on you. And then the the struggles that the generation has with these issues of identity in so many ways. And I uh the way that we know that what the answer to those is relationship. That's what we have learned through our research is we need to reach uh this generation uh through connection, uh through building trust and gaining respect so that we can have real influence. And it's uh we need to talk with people, not at them, right? And in that sense of loving them for who they are and how they are when they come to us. And I keep hearing in my head these things I've heard about, you know, God loves us so much that he'll take us how we are, but he won't leave us that way, right? He will change us.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Uh so your story, uh, if I can speak for some of our listeners, is a little scary for those of us in ministry in the church, right? Because we I I think in uh in our hearts, like we would want to think, yes, we want to be that loving, caring person to build that relationship, take someone like you in. But I think in our church spaces, a lot of times as kids leaders and student leaders, we just don't know what to do. And I think there's a little bit of the fear of not wanting to say or do the wrong thing, which might leave us saying or doing nothing.

How Leaders Build Trust

SPEAKER_00 32:40

So, what advice would you have to that kids' ministry leader? You said some of these feelings you had when you were very young. Um, and then that that student ministry leader for those teenagers, what advice would you have for them and how they might address, connect, and um and minister to kids who might be experiencing some of the things that you did?

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah. Uh Chuck, I just want to like reiterate what you said because we were created to belong. We were created for relationship, uh, first with Jesus, first with God, and then one another. And so, yes, you're so right. Like everyone desires those deep relationships, but relationships are really hard. Uh, they take a lot of time, energy, and resources. And so I believe that when we come to Jesus and we decide to follow him, we need to count the cost of what it looks like to love radically, like not even radically, love the Jesus way. And that's with grace and truth, uh, with humility and love. And so when I when I look back on my story, I grew up in a generation where we didn't talk about things. Um, unfortunately, even in our home, like we would talk, but it wouldn't be like, I didn't feel like I had a comfortable place or a cultivated place within my home to say, like, man, this is what I'm walking through. And I don't think that was my parents' desire or or longing to have that. I don't. I think that they really did want that, but I wasn't ready to share it. And so I think it's so important as parents, like, and I'm not a parent myself, but walking with lots of parents and leaders and everything is like, how do we cultivate this at a like talking and communicating at a very, very young age? Like this is a safe place in our home with mom and dad where we love to hear what you're going through. We love to hear your rustles and struggles. Like if a child comes to you and says, like, I'm struggling, like my friend call is going by the opposite sex now, and now he wants me to call him, you know, Jim or something instead of whatever. Um, we have an opportunity to have conversation because it's happening younger and younger. And so if we cultivate that by sharing uh God's identity for us as human beings, being created in the image of God, that we have infinite value as image bearers. And really, it's a beautiful thing. It's not something that uh we need to suppress, it's not something that uh we need to be ashamed of. Like it's beautiful. And so when we live within the boundaries of God's design, that's where we flourish and have the most joy. So you're allowed to struggle. However, like we're gonna talk about what you're going through. So hopefully, because here comes the belonging, if we're not having these conversations within our church, our local church, family, and also uh, you know, youth groups and homes, kids are gonna go where they find belonging. And it must be us, it must be the church. Uh because they're gonna find belonging somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Somewhere. They're gonna find identity in something. And so our goal needs to be that they would find belonging in our churches and identity in Christ, right? And you can still do the two right places.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah, absolutely. You can still do everything right, and your child might find belonging later on. And see, what I've seen in the youth um ministry, and and this is why I'm so passionate about it. I I I go to a youth conference around Canada and I I share my testimony and story and teaching. And this is because sometimes when the youth get to, you know, graduation, so say 18, 19 years old, and then they go off to college. Now they're away from their Christian family, sometimes they're away from their church family, their parents for the first time. Um, and they're going to go usually searching for friends belonging in groups. Um, we also need to disciple that age. It's so important to disciple them in our youth groups and then also offer them or put in contact with them in their college or, you know, place where they're living, um, someone that they can connect to that can mentor them or disciple them. A local church, maybe that, you know, is biblically sound, that they can go and and and and hopefully find belonging within the church, rather than just, you know, abandoning the whole Christian uh life and and Jesus altogether and and going in a different direction. So I think that's really important too. Uh that generation of young adults, I I think we fall short on discipleship there. And it is hard to do because they do go away a lot of times to college and universities. But I do think that's important too. Let's invest in the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yes, for sure. And we can't start early enough. I hear you saying we need to start at an early age. This, and you mentioned your parents. I think, you know, we I'm a little older than you, but I grew up in the same kind of environment where you just didn't talk about stuff that was awkward, right? Yeah. And I think for a lot of us, we still don't want to talk about things that might be awkward. It's easier to be avoidant and to ignore it and hope it doesn't become an issue, hope it goes away, or just that God will take care of it, right? But there are issues like this with real kids who are in struggling with real issues, who are in our spaces, and we need to have real relationships with them to point them to relationship with the real God. So I for for ministers, I you know, I think our tendency might be to be avoidant, and I don't think that's the right answer, right? That's not what I'm hearing from you. I also hear that there's a difference between being accepting of someone and being affirming of what they're doing. Two different things.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Yes, yeah. Um, accepting them as uh, you know, having being created in the image of God, uh, have infinite value to Jesus, like Jesus came to and died for every single person. There's not one person that, if it was just that one person, he would have died for them. And so realizing that we have so much value and dignity uh as human, as image bearers, um, we don't want to affirm in the Christian circles, we don't want to affirm that. And especially this is a hard place because especially in the home, it's different if I'm talking to a non-believer or if I'm talking to a family that's, you know, walking with uh maybe a child that's um struggling with their gender identity. Um, there's a different way that we walk with them as Christians. Um, you know, we don't, honestly, like we're we're not gonna allow them to change their name or their gender. Um we're gonna love them the same in it, but we're gonna walk with them and and explain why we don't do that, like why it's so important that we live out our God-given gender. And that's something that we don't want to talk about a lot in the church. Even saying that, you know, will will ruffle feathers. But it is, it is true. We walk with, as a Christian family, we have an obligation to raise, raise up our children, uh, you know, and talk about these things, the wrestles and struggle and explain. Yeah, like so many people wrestle and struggle with those things. You're not like it's don't be ashamed of that. Like, but then it's explaining, okay, the fall, how we have bent desires towards things that might not like we might feel like it's real to us and it is, but it might not be God's desire or design for us. And so we need so much wisdom as we're navigating these things. But yeah, no, my church family, they didn't affirm everything. Actually, they did the very opposite, which drew me closer to Jesus. Um, there was lots of hard conversations. I mean, we spent so much time, you know, laughing and praying together and talking. It wasn't just around my sexuality or my gender. Right, right. Uh, we need to have, you know, it's a holistic person. Genuine connection. Absolutely. But yeah, I mean, we had so many conversations, but it was that they held to that, you know, biblical sexual ethic that I actually had to take a look at my life against the Bible and and the way that I was living my life and go, well, if God, if you are the creator of the universe, if if you created me, then I might, I must submit to you, not me saying you have to, you know, like I have to submit to you as creator, as God, but not because you're mean or I have to do a whole bunch of rules because I need to follow you in this. No, there's so much joy when we're living in the, you know, in our in our God-given

Teaching Kids Who God Says They Are

SPEAKER_02 42:00

identity and gender uh as Christians.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah. But it's not about behavior, it's about surrender. Yeah. Right? That let letting if he's gonna be savior, he also needs to be Lord. Right. And we need to follow what he says. Kyla, I think that so this is something that, you know, again, over the last couple of years, my team and I have done a lot of research into understanding the generation and unique needs. And this issue of identity is such a big thing. So we actually created a curriculum resource for preschool kids and student ministry called Hi-Fi that helps kids in the church learn to find identity in Christ. And so we start when they're very young, talking about who God says you are, right? And so and I feel like that's something that is missing, that's which is why we felt so strongly about this. But a lot of times we can tell Bible stories and have these kind of nice moralistic applications that we pull out about being kind or being nice or, you know, giving water to somebody in need. These things that we do that are sort of sweet stories, but that don't really necessarily connect with things that kids are really experiencing as real tensions and pressures in their lives. And so I think that there's a miss that a lot of us may be unintentionally making. Nobody wants to have a miss, right? In that we the world tells our kids who it says they should be. Yes. And it influences them to say you could be or should be this. We as the church rarely talk about who God says we are. And so this whole idea of finding ways either to have a specific study or to connect any Bible study to who God says you are, right? We the every kid wants to know who who I am. Absolutely. And the only way we can I can know who I am is if I know the great I am, since I'm made in his image and in his likeness. So when I learn that I am loved by God, because God is loving, he's a loving God, that's his nature, that's profound. And when I learn that I am known. Owned by him. He knows everything about me, right? Psalm 139. He knows the words I'm going to say before they come off my tongue, which is scary because I often don't know what's going to come out of my mouth. So, but he does, right? And so, in all those things, he knows your name and your need and he knows your story and he knows your heart. And so we need to tell kids that they are designed on purpose and made for a purpose that are not accidents, right? Of nature or evolution or an atheistic, secularistic uh culture. They are made by God and you're not a mistake. So those are things that we we need to say those things out loud to our kids so that they can hear that that truth, yes, not just a nice story.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Amen. I I totally agree with you. It's so important to have those conversations because, as humans, I mean, I did it myself. It's like there must be more to life than this. Like, who am I? Like, why am I even here? Like, why do I even exist? Um, and so the more we know that, like, we don't follow a God that's distant. And this is what I love. He's so personable, he's so intimate. Um, he wants to walk, like he walks beside us, he is with us by way of the Holy Spirit. Um, and so when we find our our true satisfaction in Christ, in the one who created us, that is where uh we will thrive as human beings. The world will say that um, you know, you're just you know doing behavior modification or you're just white knuckling it here and there. In some moments you you are doing some of those things, but it's not the ultimate, like as you see me live my life, I I hope that people see joy and peace and you know, all the fruits of the spirit more than they see the rustle and the struggle. Although I'm, you know, I have those, trust me. Um, there's ups and downs in life, but when we realize just who God is and and who he says we are, I I mean it's life-changing. If we can learn um to hold on to Christ's identity, here's where true freedom is. The world will say that you have to hold on, it's called self-autonomy.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Where you know, you're saying you're your own God. You get to define and do whatever you want. Follow your heart and you'll be free. These are things that we hear in in today's culture and world. It's ingrained in our kids. Yes. It's actually slavery.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Because true freedom is found only in the one who created us. And so the lie is that that life and and the world offers us all the freedom when we get to express ourselves, you know, the way we want to, and and everyone has to accept that around us, but it's actually a false. It it leaves us more broken, more lost than we have ever been before. And so when we realize that actually God has the best interests for us, he knows what's best for us as human beings because he created us. Then when we live in that, we we just find so much joy and

Truth With Love And Lasting Hope

SPEAKER_02 47:20

peace in it.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

For those ministers listening, kids ministry, student ministry, middle school, high school, who who are listening, what bit of advice might you leave them with? So we know that this is something that can be overwhelming. We we don't know what to do. And so the the idea of ignoring it is not the way to go. Um, what advice would you give? What maybe what are some common mistakes to avoid? And and what is that parting word of advice that you give to say, here's what you need to do?

SPEAKER_02 47:50

First, I want to thank you. Like thank everyone for doing ministry and for the hard work and and the time and the energy it takes to do what you're doing. Um lots of times we can get overwhelmed and we can start to do it in our own strength. Uh we we find you know it it tiring and exhausting. Even ministry in general um can feel like a little bit of a weight and a burden. And and so, like fall on your knees, cry out to God, ask him to help you, um, ask him to uh speak to you. He says, you know, if you want wisdom, ask for wisdom. And so we ask uh with a posture of humility for more of the Holy Spirit because I always talk about this vertical relationship that we have. The vertical relationship with God has to come first. So, what is your quiet times looking like with Jesus? Are you falling on your face, uh, spending time, no distractions, in the Word of God? The Word of God transforms us. Um, are you spending that time, even in the busyness, with Him so that He can fill us up with a love that's not our own? It then overflows into that relational um relationships that we have uh horizontally. And and so that's important because people don't need more of me, they need more of Jesus. And so when we have that deep, intimate relationship, I believe as we become more like Jesus, he gives us that empathy and compassion. Like he many times in the Bible it said it welled up in his gut. Like I pray for that. God, I want that uh, you know, compassion that Jesus had, that you had uh for the crowds that were hungry, the crowds that were dying, the crowds that were separated from you. And so I want that. And then uh it helps me as I walk with other people and and minister to other people and disciple other people. The other thing is sometimes, you know, we lose heart. Uh, some people will say no uh to Jesus, but there will be people that will say yes. And so um I pray that you don't lose heart. I pray that you uh, you know, continue to have that body of Christ around you that when you're feeling uh low and and down and hopeless almost, that they can build you up. So find that community that can breathe life into you. Um, that's what we do at our church, is like just we do life together. And there's so much um so much power in that. Uh, because I go out and I share my testimony and and sometimes I feel like I come back and I'm beaten up. And then I go see my brothers and sisters, and they love me and they care for me, and they listen to me and they cry with me and they laugh with me, and then I can go out again. And so um, although these conversations are going to be really hard, uh I would, I would ask every leader and every person in the church, even in the congregation, uh, to pray for a transgender person or an LGBTQ plus person to come into their midst um and then trust Jesus to do the work and build relationships. I asked Jess that, like, how did you love me so well? Because I feel like she loved me so well. And she said, I just wanted to be your friend. And she goes into every new relationship with that in mind, like, I just want to be this person's friend. And when we do that, um, you know, we learn from each other. And it doesn't become like I'm over here in my mature Christian faith, and you're way down here in your new faith. Although, yes, you need milk and I eat, you know, solid food, but we are meant to uh grow and minister to one another. And just as that, too, like you have changed my life just as much as they have changed my life. And and it's that beauty of relationship, close relationship with one another. So I I just pray for you not to lose heart because there's nothing impossible for God. Um, and don't shy away from the gospel and the truth of God because it's the power that saves. And so, um, but do it with grace and truth.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

I feel like you that's a great place for us to end. I feel like you hit so perfectly on this concept that I feel like God's placed in my mind as you talk about speaking the truth in love. Yes, right, Ephesians 4, 15. This idea that when we when a person knows that we genuinely care for them, they will receive things that we have to share with them. But we cannot also shy away from sharing the truth, right? We need to speak the truth, yeah, not in a way that's beating them over the head or condemning them or criticizing them in in a in a out of a motivation that says, I love you and God loves you, and yeah, what you're doing is not right. Yeah, we need to talk about that, but you need to know that's because I care deeply for you.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

The greatest love is to share the truth of God when someone isn't, you know, is gonna be separated for maybe separated from God forever. And so, although it we have to count the cost of our, you know, ourselves because it's gonna feel awkward and it's gonna suck if someone walks away. But um, you know, that kind of love is because we know the gospel, is because we know it's the best thing for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

All right. Kyla, thank you. Thank you for your honesty. Thanks for your courage. Thank you for sharing your story and for reminding us that this isn't just a cultural issue, it's a discipleship issue uh that um that we all need to be prepared for. Because if it's not in your church yet, it will be really soon, right? This is not a regional problem, this is a generational cultural issue that we're gonna find in in Canada and in Nashville and wherever you are, uh, kids everywhere and young adults are struggling with issues like Kyla did. And they need people like BJ and Jess who can be there to

Resources And Closing Challenge

SPEAKER_00 54:20

love them and speak the truth in that context. Listeners, thank you for listening to Etch. This uh episode is so important. Um, if you want to go deeper into Kyla's story, I want to encourage you to check out her book. It's called Transformed. Uh, it's a powerful firsthand account of her story and how God met her uh in the midst of a time of confusion and brought clarity through his word and transformed her identity from the inside out. So check out that book at lifeway.com or Amazon.com or wherever you get books, but of course, lifeway.com is the place to start. Go there first. And for those of you who are leading in kids and student ministry, guys, this is exactly why we created Hi-Fi as a resource. Uh Hi-Fi is built to help you ground kids and students in a biblical understanding of their identity, of learning who God is, who they are, and how that shapes everything about our lives. And so if you're looking for a curriculum resource that doesn't avoid questions about identity, but speaks truth into them with clarity and confidence, I want to encourage you to check out hi-fi. You can look for that at myhi-fi.com. That's my h-y-fi-i.com. And of course, you can find out all kinds of other resources from Lifeway NextGen at lifeway.com slash kids or lifeway.com slash students. And finally, if you are looking to build a broader strategy for reaching this generation, I want to point you again to our book, Flip the Script, which unpacks all kinds of great research that we did in partnership with Lifeway Research about the unique realities, pressures, and identity questions of Gen Z and Alpha that they're navigating today so you can lead with insight. Because here's the deal: the truth is, if we don't intentionally disciple the next generation into Jesus, the world will disciple them away from him. Thanks for listening to the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast. We'll see you back again soon for another episode. This episode of the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast was brought to you by our incredible production team, executive producer Angie Alkins, producer Nikki Ogden, edited by Trey Garza with sound engineer Donnie Gordon, and recorded in the Lifeway Podcast Studios at Lifeway Headquarters in Brentwood, Tennessee. I'm your host, Chuck Peters. Thanks again for joining us. We'll see you back again soon for another episode of the Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast.