Kate Pozesnik left the corporate world five years ago to launch Quark. That's a great name, by the way, a personal branding and career consulting firm that helps accelerate the careers of women executives and rising professionals who are seeking a life of fulfillment and freedom. Kate has been partnering with C level executives for nearly a decade in a variety of capacities, currently by equipping leaders with curated, Marketing materials, digital, personal branding, and client centered coaching. She has orchestrated several career transitions, including a shift from stay at home mom to the tech world has worked across industries and roles and has been employed by. Large enterprises, mid sized companies, and small nonprofits alike. I can relate to that a little bit of everything. Kate is recognized for being a confidence booster, relationship builder, and steadfast promoter of authenticity as a vessel for life and career success. Finally, She has been an invited career expert on podcasts and social audio events, written business articles for career professionals, and developed a library of how to career guides and regularly engages colleagues and job seekers through relevant, interesting, which I have seen very interesting social media content today, Kate is here to share an important element of the job search. And your long term career that you might not have thought of. And I have not talked about nearly enough, if at all personal branding. It's probably not what you think. And listening to Kate's advice is going to change your outlook and mine. I think we're going to also discuss what the hidden job market is, how to uncover those opportunities, how to determine salary and articulate your salary expectations. And way more than that, we're going to dig into it. Kate, thanks for being on the job interview experience.
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Matthew. I am, I've been looking forward to this conversation and I can't wait to share some of my knowledge with our job seekers out there who might be exploring opportunities. So thank you. I'm excited.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704So before we dig into all this crazy stuff, how do you like to spend your time outside of work?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706that's such a fun question. I would say that my number one favorite thing to do is Latin dance. I am big into bachata and salsa and I typically dance four or five times a week. I also love travel and I have a number of trips that I've been on in the last year and I'm looking forward to a trip to Spain and Portugal, partly for careers industry conference and then a week of dance of course and some fun exploration of some cities. So those would be my top two favorites.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704Did I read a rumor that you once lived on an island?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706Yes, in fact, that is true. I lived on Sanibel Island, which is a barrier island off the coast west coast of Florida for about six years. And it was a really fun experience. It's a very small island. Typically, it only has about five or six thousand residents, but if you're familiar with Florida, it's a very seasonal state. Meaning that in the winter months, a lot of people flock to the area. So that number could grow to 40, 000 people during the winter months. So it was an interesting place to, to reside. A sleepy island, but a really good place to be for a period of my life.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704How do you define personal branding? I think for some listeners and myself, I just think of celebrities that are a brand. I'm sure it's much different and simpler than what we see on social media for it. So for a professional, what is personal branding?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706That's a really good question because I think a lot of people get confused or they think I don't have a personal brand, only celebrities or influencers or politicians have a brand. That's not true. We all have a personal brand whether we like it or not. And it's been said that your personal brand is essentially the way other people see you. So it's the way that you're perceived both online and in person. And you might think of it sort of as your reputation, but it goes a little bit deeper than that. It's really about the values that you hold, the mission that you are trying to achieve, and how you outwardly present that to the world. And it's very intentional, or it should be very intentional, particularly if you're job searching. about being very clear about what you want your brand to look like, how you want to represent yourself. I mean down to the way that you dress for the occasion that you're, attending. So I think all those things are really important to, to understand particularly if you're a job seeker that knowing that your brand precedes you I believe it was Jeff Bezos, who's famous for saying, Your personal brand is how other people perceive you when you, or what they say about you when you're not in the room. And I think that's a really good description of what a brand is in terms of a definition, it's a good way of putting it.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704So why is it important for a job search?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706Oh if you think about it these days, it's not just enough to present yourself in person in a certain way. We are digitally connected. Social media is huge. We're, we all have an online presence and you better believe that your potential employers and colleagues to some degree are going to be doing some research when you become a potential job candidate. So you really want to make sure that the information and content that is out there portraying who you are is a, an accurate representation of who you are and hopefully a very positive one. So when you're job searching, You want to make sure that you're presenting yourself in those ways to make sure that people get the authentic piece of you. And I always say, now I'll probably mention this more than once because it really is important is being authentic when you're developing your personal brand or presenting yourself, because I truly believe that we attract the right opportunities The right jobs and even the right people in our lives when we are our genuine, true selves. And sometimes we're a little uncomfortable with presenting who we are because we're like, I don't know if they're going to like me. I'm not sure if I'm the right fit, but it particularly as a job seeker, you want to make sure that you're in alignment with an organization's culture, their goals and mission, their values. So if you are not presenting an authentic brand or your authentic self, you're potentially setting yourself up for a misalignment in the future, which means maybe the job won't be a great fit for you six months, 12 months down the line. But you're also missing the opportunity to really connect. on a deeper level, not only with your employer, but your colleagues if you feel like you can present yourself in your true nature.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704What does visibility mean in one's career? And how does one make oneself visible?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706this almost skirts on the topic of thought leadership and how you present yourself as a professional. Being visible is crucial today. In my opinion, if you want to see the career advancement that you're hoping for. And what I mean by visible is, Mainly online, because that's how a lot of us, especially for remote workers, that's how we're going to be evaluated, so to speak, is making sure that you're portraying yourself in a positive light. You want to make sure that the visibility that's on you is. Going to reflect positively on how you conduct yourself, both in your professional and personal life. So in social media, being very conscientious about what you post, how you articulate yourself, even down to, I mean, I hate to harp on this, but even your punctuation, things like that can be, can make you perceived in one way or another. So being visible means Being active particularly on platforms like LinkedIn, where a lot of job seekers spend their time. And that doesn't mean just having a profile. It means having a robust profile, so that people can find you through recruiter searches. But it also means sharing who you are, what you're about, and what you have to offer to the world. And that kind of goes back to the personal branding piece, is it's not really about us. And same with thought leadership. It's really about what can we provide in terms of value to those around us. And in most cases, for those of us who are job seeking, it means to your employer, your potential employer. So that's what I would say really making sure that the content that you're providing on LinkedIn or other social media platforms is in line with your goals and hopefully in line with what the industry and your potential employer. Is looking for in a potential candidate.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704What are some action steps listeners can take, maybe three things, to start exploring and then actually implementing? Their personal brand.
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706Oh, so I would say being very clear about what your goals are for developing a brand. For example, for many of your listeners, it's going to be job seeking for some listeners. It could be the fact that they want to become seen as a thought leader in their industry or field. Perhaps perhaps you're looking to become a board member on a prestigious board of directors, or you want to attract other opportunities for speaking engagements, conference keynotes, things like that. So I'd be clear about your goals. And then also, this seems like a maybe too foundational, but I think it's an important one, is getting clear on what your personal slash professional values are, what legacy you want to leave from a professional standpoint. So being clear on those two things. And then, I would say Really do some research on the type of engagement that you're looking for. That's job seeking, being on a board in terms of being clear with what your target audience. Actually, who your target audience is and what they're looking for in a candidate. So then you can take that information and start developing content or a profile and hopefully both that is in alignment with your mission goals and that of your target audience. Because that's how you're going to be seen as relevant, and it's also going to come across as much more authentic and targeted in terms of the fact that you know exactly what you're looking for, what your target audience is asking for, and being here and how you can articulate as to how you are the person that can help them meet those goals.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704How do you recommend job seekers determine the salary range would be the first part and then how do you articulate that when talking to the recruiter?
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706tricky conversation or it can be, and it makes, I think talking about money in our society is. Is difficult for us in general. And then when we're hoping to position ourselves to be an attractive candidate, we don't want to, we don't want them to think we're overvaluing ourselves, but at the same time, you want to make sure that you are asking for a salary range that is a commiserate with the role and one that's going to meet your financial obligations and goals as well. So with salary, I, A, you need to be prepared to answer a question like this. In the first interview, I was just working with a client yesterday. She was texting me and saying, you know what? I'm so glad we had the conversation about how to address salary and compensation because in our introduction email, which was supposed to be just, casual conversation, it was one of the first things they brought up. So I usually say, don't be the person to bring up salary and compensation, but. When it's brought up, especially early on in the interview process, I always tell people to err on the side of caution because you haven't yet really had an opportunity to prove why you're the best fit and they don't love you yet. So it's like you want to be careful now with ranges. What I say is do your research first if you have people like if you have friends Especially in the field or in that functional role, you know have a casual conversation and say, you know What should I expect? There are also resources online like Onet that can give you a little bit of Some insight around what general range should be, and then look at from a regional perspective, what those types of roles are commanding. So come armed with actual data that exemplifies what you're asking for. And then the key here is the word range. It's not, I want 150, 000 base salary. It's my target salary range. Is between 140 and 170, 000 base salary. And the way that I say, determine that as a, your research, of course, but for example, when an employer states a range on the line, which a lot of you job seekers have probably seen, sometimes these ranges can be a hundred thousand dollars, which is just. Mind boggling to me, but what I suggest is, for example, if they're, if their range is 130 to 160 K, I suggest going higher because there's always going to be negotiation involved, but have those ranges intersect or overlap. So if their range is 130 to 160, you say your range is 150 to 175. So there's a little overlap there. So you're not out of their budget. But that you're on the high end of it. So if they say they come down 10%, you're still in your range of comfort and not alienating them from having you as a real potential candidate.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704I completely agree on everything you've said, but especially on ranges. And I've had a lot of people tell me their desired compensation. And I've done it myself for jobs as well. And I just having one number for one thing can put you at a disadvantage because you could be a little low, or you could be a little high, or you could be a lot high. And that range gives you a, I think it gives you a, An offer safety net, first off, it also comes across as more willing to find a middle ground. And I see some stuff on social media where you're supposed to say, based on my skills and this, I won't basically, I won't take a penny less than 150, 000 a year because I know my value or whatever it is. And to me, that person just doesn't, whether it be on an executive team, that person's always going to have their way, or if it's a, if it's a someone who's early in their career, they're, they probably don't understand their value in the job market, or they just don't understand Okay, this company has a salary, a specific salary range for this because this position can only generate so much revenue for the company. This role pays 70, 000 a year because it generates maybe, 75, 000 in revenue or 5, 000 in revenue. It doesn't ever, that's too complicated to go down, investing in a role versus, So we won't go there, but you just have to understand that the company, they want you to do well, like they want you to have a great life, but certain roles only generate a certain amount of outcome or revenue for a company. And when you demand a certain spot and you're way out of the ballpark, you just show that you're not aligned with at least this specific company. I think that's really good. I think this would be good for listeners to rewind and write those three points down that you made.
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706And no one wants to work with someone who's so rigid, and if you're that rigid in the interview to your earlier point, people start thinking, okay, this is someone who's not going to give. When we're in meetings and we're talking about coming to a consensus, this person's not going to be able to do that or will, is unwilling to do that. The other thing to keep in mind as a job seeker is. It's not just salary that is negotiable. So sometimes if you don't get this, the base salary or the full comp or the compensation that you're hoping for, there are things like PTO, you could negotiate there's a revenue or profit sharing. It could be contributions to your 401k. There are some things that there could be flexibility. That could make up for a difference in salary in difference in salary. The other thing is I think that having a range shows that you are a skilled negotiator, and particularly if you're in sales, like I imagine a lot of listeners are then demonstrating sound negotiation skills while doing it diplomatically is something that's going to demonstrate. In and of itself that you're going to be able to do that with clients and do it in a very professional way. So I do think it's almost like the negotiation of salary is part of the interview itself or the evaluation itself. It's not just having that conversation. It's you're being evaluated on how you're handling that negotiation.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704Yeah. Are you a good negotiator? Are you friendly? That word you used, rigid, is perfect for this topic. Are you rigid, or are you willing to work with us? And to me I've interviewed people and they say, I have to be at 150, 000 a year to even consider this. That type of demand is the same type of person who walks in nothing wrong with asking for a raise or discussing it with your boss. That's kind of person who says, Hey, look, I need a 15 percent raise or I'm
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706right.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704as opposed to someone who might come in and say, Hey, look, boss, I'm really interested in growing here and growing here. I'm wondering if we could find a time to discuss how I could give more to this company. And at the same time, I am looking to increase my earnings. I have a couple ideas I'd like to share with you. But what's more important is hearing your feedback on how we can grow together. Two very different things. But to me, during an interview, I will read into that because how people behave and how people even word or demand things during the interview typically reflects how they're going to interact with rules or processes or anything else. We need to talk about the hidden job
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706Oh, yes. So important.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704No one's invited me to this hidden job
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706It's a secret.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704career. Yeah. So can we tell
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706These are jobs that aren't visible or online or advertised. So they could be very newly created roles. They could be roles that the company's not willing to, or able to announce yet. There could be a budget restrictions that prevent a company from advertising role, just because the cost of advertising role can be very pricey. So there's a number of reasons why there are jobs hidden. The key here, in my opinion. Is networking. It is putting the feelers out everywhere you go in a lot of different situations. So that people know you're looking and know specifically what you're looking for. So I suggest people attend virtual job fairs. You may not find your dream job there, but what you will find are a lot of recruiters in one place. That you can introduce yourself and even if there's not something available right that moment It's playing the long game. We're in three to six months. Maybe something becomes available hit up your alumni association Talk with former classmates or even those that maybe graduated before or after you To let them know that you're seeking a job people love helping other people They really do so if you tell people exactly what you're looking for and this is really important as part of the hidden job search You Is having a very clear elevator pitch or your value prop. And it needs to be short and sweet and be very specific for me. It's something like I'm a career coach who specializes in assisting women executives who are in the C suite. Help them advance their careers, whether they want to become on a prestigious board or they want to become a thought leader. Et cetera, three sentences, maybe four max 30 second elevator pitch so that someone's okay, Kate works only with C levels or that's her niche. She wants to be in X industry. In the United States so that people, when they come across opportunities, or maybe they have an opportunity that they already know about, they know you're a good fit. This is something that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but I am a fan with a sales and marketing background of cold messaging. It scares so many people, but honestly, If you need a job or you highly desire a job, you're going to have to step outside your comfort zone. That is how, no one gets successful in life without taking some risks. And for some of us, it is a big risk to put ourselves out there in a cold DM on LinkedIn. But what you'd be surprised is that not everyone's doing that. So you can differentiate yourself with a short, concise, specific message that portrays what kind of value you have to offer. And that can be a way to get someone's attention to recruiters, hiring managers. And I would even suggest. For the hidden job market search, reaching out to potential colleagues to get a better understanding of what job openings might be coming up. There may be even an opening on their team that hasn't been advertised yet, but that's coming down the pipeline. I would also urge people to attend conferences. This is a great way to network, learn, but it's also an excellent opportunity to engage. With people in your industry that may have some leads for you that are not advertised and again I can't emphasize enough to network and tell people what you're looking for and tell them what you have to offer and make sure that you have a very tight. Aligned resume and LinkedIn profile that's in alignment with the type of work you want to be doing because no one wants to refer someone who has a piecemeal or convoluted LinkedIn profile or a resume that says, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do. It looks like you're trying to be a jack of all trades. So those are important people are more likely to help you if you can be very specific about what you're looking for And that your materials that you provide them with Are very much in alignment with what you're asking for
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704That message isn't going to seal the deal. It's going to be the resume, especially with something cold. That's where the proof is. And that's what will make the lights go on for people,
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706that's key. It really is so those would be a few things do your research and I would this is one of the pieces of advice I give people is Outside there's a couple different ways that you can job search one of them is through applying for jobs that already exist and the other is Start shortlisting companies you want to work for and then target your search with those companies. It focuses your search a lot more. It makes your research a lot easier because you've narrowed down probably a niche or an industry and that helps you be more clear in your career materials. So I think that's really important to make sure that you have some specific companies in mind and then you can do your research. And no, then you can start reaching out internally. A lot of times people are able to send referrals. So if you are reaching out, even if there's not job opportunities right then, there could be something that's available and not posted. Or to my earlier point, there may be something coming down the pipe that just hasn't been solidified yet. And you want to be top of mind to the folks who are decision makers in that, in the event that's the case.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704I can think of a couple examples of this from working as a director of town acquisition and being on the leadership team at companies and things like that. One would be that the position description is written. It's ready to go for this new role. Whether it's posted is dependent on getting a new client or drying the ink on a contract. And the second that new client comes in, they're posting this because they, maybe they need to hire five new people. Whether it be a physical product and you need more people to make it or more people for support, software, whatever it is. So that's one. Or there's jobs just sitting there and they could be sitting there for months. And if you're the right fit, you'll, they might not even post it. Now I don't remember all the Laws on that, but depending on the state, they might say, Hey, this person applied this higher, like it's a referral or whatever, let's hire them. Another one might be, they know that there's a really good employee that has been waiting to get a promotion to maybe a director level or whatever it is. They've been waiting for this for a couple of years and they're doing it. And so they know this, their position is going to be open. And they're just trying to find the right time to make this transition where this person who used to run a lot of stuff over here is now stepping up, getting promoted. And that persistent person's position is going to be open. And they know it. And they, maybe that person who's getting promoted is writing the job description, but they're waiting to post it because it's complicated, right? This happens at companies when people maybe start at the ground floor and work their way up to really graduate to the next step. That actually, sometimes it takes a lot to Untangle all the things that one person does. So that's another example. One is they know they're going to fire somebody. They know they have someone that say it's a high performing salesperson. And so they can't quite, they have to time the firing because maybe there's some Closed or whatever else, but maybe this person did something that they know they just can't keep them around, right? Maybe they've just been a. Little dishonest, or some behavioral things, or drugs, or, what, it could be a lot of things. A thousand things. So they know they're gonna let him go. And they're just waiting maybe a couple of months to the end of the quarter. And so that position is just sitting there. These are all things where you can contact them, especially through networking. If you have a friend that works there or just send them a cold email and say, I have no idea what's in the pipeline right now, but I align with what your company is doing. I think I can help you out. Take you to the next level and I would ask that this resume stay towards the top of your pile because when the time comes I'm gonna be ready to Do some pretty impactful things for you and I wanted to be here to tell you how something
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706I like that messaging!
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704If you're going to be a CPA, maybe you simplify it and you say, Hey, this is how I stay sane in January through April of every year. And I can bring some stability to you, whatever that might be. I think I had a couple others. Off the top of my head, but I lost them, but there's just all kinds of stuff that could be going on that you don't know about. And if you don't ask, the answer is always going to be no. What Kate said she gave you different ideas on how to reach out. Think through those and figure out maybe one or two that you can start doing and then grow from there. You shared a lot of really good information. Listeners are going to want to continue learning from you. How can they connect with you online? Follow you on social media and learn more.
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706I would love to hear from listeners today. And the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. I'm very active on the platform. I welcome you to connect with me, send me a DM. I also have a great website that has resources about the services and a little bit more about how I help rising professionals and executives. So I would welcome you to visit that as well. And of course I'm, I have presence on. Pretty much all the major social media outlets. I'm a big fan of marketing and branding, so I do have a presence on Tik TOK, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, but LinkedIn is where I probably spend the most of my time.
matthew_1_02-23-2024_110704Great Can you send us off with some motivation or encouragement as we take in all this advice and move forward
kate-pozeznik_1_02-23-2024_120706Please be you, be yourself. We already like you the way you are. We love your uniqueness. So embrace your quirks, those idiosyncrasies that make you, you sometimes those are the things that set you apart and make you really good at a specific job. The other thing I would say is, Give yourself some grace. Job searching is very hard. It can be stressful. If you are the sole income earner in your family, even if you're not, it can be a challenge financially. If you're in between jobs or maybe the job you're in, it's just not financially compensating you well enough. Take breaks when you need to from job searching. Take a walk. Meditate, do some four by four breathing, whatever helps you center yourself. Calm down. Go dancing. That's my stress relief. But be patient with yourself and know that job seeking is hard. It's hard for all of us. And to not give up, but to continue to pursue and be very clear on what it is you like. And don't feel bad if you don't secure your dream job. We hear this like America dream that, everyone should be aspiring for a dream job. Some people are okay with making a living. You don't have to have this. Huge title or anything, just, it's okay if your ambition is to make a living and then go home at the end of the day and spend time with your family. That's okay too. Be patient with yourself, be your authentic self and give yourself grace and time off from the job search when you need it. And just know that there are many people like Matthew and I who are here as resources and are here in the background truly cheering you on and wanting to see you be successful.