Up in your career? Doesn't happen magically. For some, it happen at all, or it seems like that's paused. It's not always skills you bring to the table. The hard work that you do, of the most important factors, a factor that you can learn and control and use to fast track your growth is presence. And Lorraine Kaylee is an expert. the expert on presence. Lorraine is an award-winning keynote speaker and bestselling author of Unforgettable Presence, get Seen, gain, influence, and Catapult Your Career. A LinkedIn Top Voice In Workplace Communication, she helps professionals elevate their presence, influence, and impact. Her frameworks, which we'll talk about today, have been adopted by Fortune 500 companies like Zoom, Amazon, McKinsey. A bunch of other actually really impressive names with hundreds of thousands of LinkedIn followers. Lorraine teaches at Stanford continuing studies and LinkedIn Learning, reaching a global audience. is going to get us up to speed on executive presence from standing out to leadership to looking like the leader you are making impressions at job interviews and even improving presence on video calls like the one Lorraine and I are on right now.
Lorraine, welcome to the Move Up Podcast.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Executive presence and career growth, it's often seen as a key factor in moving from, say, middle management to
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458You.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458roles. I also think of the word, like temperament. do you define executive presence and what are some practical steps for professionals to take to be seen as a leader?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458What I'm doing with this book is I'm actually redefining what professional presence means. I think to your point, like when a lot of people hear the word presence, they think of executive presence in a more traditional sense. How do I show up in a room? I think executive presence is one piece of the puzzle, one piece of presence, but presence actually is much broader in this day and age to really be both how and where you are seen. So you want to make sure that you are exuding presence, you have executive presence, right? That's one piece. But it's also important to make sure that you have presence on platforms like LinkedIn, that you have a strong virtual and video presence, that you have presence when you lead meetings, when you advocate for yourself even in a Slack or teams channel, the way you talk with your coworkers. And so I think presence has really become much broader and. It's really important to be intentional about how and where you are seen, making sure you are seen by the right people in the right places as well. And hopefully this is encouraging for people who might feel like, oh, I'm not an executive, or I don't have that natural charisma gravitas. While your presence can really be built across all these different things to build your overall unforgettable presence.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Maybe just sharing your thoughts once a week. I haven't figured it out yet. How do you convince people the importance of that and how that. Integrates into the overall presence that you're talking about.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458sure. I call LinkedIn our modern virtual office, our virtual water cooler, and our virtual landing page, linkedIn is often the place that people will go to first to assess how credible you are to understand your background and who you are. When we get those messages and we're not sure, is this person real, are they not? We clicked through their profile, right? We're making these snap judgments and when I was an editor at LinkedIn, so I was part of the team that brought content to the platform. I get it. It is very nerve wracking. It's scary. Even when I was at LinkedIn I was very nervous. Posting on the platform, ironically. But to your point, like it doesn't have to be. You don't have to be a quote unquote content creator. You don't have to have aspirations to become an influencer. You really have to think about it as what is the image that you want to show the world, and share with the world? What is the expertise like? What do you want to be known for? And so LinkedIn is very powerful for that, right? People go to your page to assess social proof, to see your credibility. And so to your point, Matthew posting. I actually like to say like really lower your expectations, like post once a month, like that's your goal once a month and you can do once a month. And then you're gonna realize, oh, it's not too bad. Maybe I'll go twice a month. And you pick up like that. You want it to be something sustainable. It shouldn't be something that tires you out or burns you out, but I think. When you start, the more you put into the platform, you will see all these benefits that come your way. People are gonna be reaching out for opportunities even if you're working at a company, right? This happened to me. People saw me as more of the face of, they saw me as more of a leader. 'cause they're like, wow, she's putting herself out there on LinkedIn. And I got tapped for opportunities internally because people saw me posting on LinkedIn and some of my. Best friends and greatest collaborators like I've met through LinkedIn, starting off as strangers. Haven't even met some of them in person. There's just so much goodness that comes from it, and I know it's scary. I know it's uncomfortable, but that's usually my pitch.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Let's talk a little bit about hard work because I love hard work. However, doesn't get you as far as a lot of people think It should, and I it's good for you to work hard and be but it's also a flawed approach if that's all you're doing to get ahead. What should people also have on their radar to move up in their career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah you bring up a really important point in that I think a lot of us think that hard work. Is going to be what gets us promoted, what gets us to that next level. And hard work is really important and you want to have a good reputation and be someone who knows how to actually do the work. I had the pleasure of interviewing nearly three dozen experts from my book. Danielle Pink is one of them five times, New York Times bestselling author, and he says 80% of what you're known for should be that you work hard, you do great work, you have great output, but. 20%. That's the really critical piece that we don't get taught that will allow us to showcase our work, that people know who we are, that they know what we're doing. Because if you're just working heads down at your desk and no one ever sees it what's it all for?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Yeah.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458it's not gonna get you so far. And knowing how to advocate for your work, knowing how to tactfully promote yourself, how to build those relationships, and how to really lift your head up from the desk right is so critical in allowing you to advance and really be known in your workplace.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Yeah, and I think an example of that, when you talk about your work, obviously people don't like someone who's I work so hard.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458For the company I'm number one. But when you can frame it instead of, I did. It's 82% more work than my coworkers last month, or my peers, whatever, who's saying that is a, my work led to a 38% increase in revenue for my department, or 38%. In savings, right? It could be a thousand different So making your hard work, your output about the company that you work for, your organization versus just yourself,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458me that's a way to positively frame it that people will accept right as Oh, that's great. It sounds like your mission oriented with the company wow, I wish we had someone like that here. I wish I had an employee that not only had the mindset. To do that, but also the ability
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458you bring up a great point. Like anytime you can tie your results to the company's bottom line, no one's ever gonna think that's bragging. Leadership will love to hear that you're impacting the bottom line. So framing it like that is really great. And then I think also another angle that you can take is, let me share my learnings from what I did. And now you're being helpful. And especially like me as an introvert, it's very hard to talk about ourselves, talk about our work. Let me frame it as an, oh, I learned this thing, or we tried this, and hopefully other teams can learn from that and apply it to their own work as well. So that's another strategy that you can try that I think is maybe a little bit more comfortable, especially to the introverts, but still gets the word out about what you're doing.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458When I was an executive recruiter running my own firm, I got to have a lot of really interesting conversations. one of 'em that struck me when I was preparing for our call is there's a man I was talking to, I think he was probably late forties, early fifties, very highly paid executive at a medium sized company. Very like the kind of person people are like, wow, I want that someday you, I can buy anything, all that. one of the things he said to me. is, I don't feel like anyone ever sees me. And it wasn't because he wanted more attention, it was because in a room, he wouldn't look like the power executive in movies. He was, unassuming, not trying to impress people. He said, I feel like I'm invisible and no one really is interested in me or my work, and. I say that maybe some people listening can relate, but I say that because even executives wanna stand out to executives and there are people who get 99% of the attention in a room and things like that. And I'm not always super impressed with those people. A lot of times it's a whole lot of talk and not a whole lot of action, right?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458is self-promotion more than doing
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Talk about substance.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Executives wanna stand out to executives and of course people who are moving up in their career even more so when they get those couple seconds with an executive, when you get to meet someone at a networking event, we all wanna stand out to executives. So what would you say are the top practical ways for folks to make a strong and lasting impression on executives?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458One thing that I would definitely start working on is something that I call A-U-P-I-A unique and powerful introduction. And this is not just, hi, I am Lorraine. I'm on the marketing team, right? It's, hi, I'm Lorraine. I work on the editorial team. And what that means is we work with a lot of business influencers to create content and I'm really excited we just came out with this, campaign and give a little bit detail. Because like you said, sometimes you only have a few minutes or a minute, like a very short amount of time to share more about who you are, and so that also has an added benefit. Now the executive knows a little bit more about you. You've given them some context, and now there's something they can grasp onto to continue the conversation versus, hi, I'm Lorraine. I'm in marketing. Okay, now what?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458What are some essentials for standing out and being professional on a video call besides not wearing your pajamas?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458There's two things that come to mind for me. So the first is turning off autopilot small talk, which is very common, especially on video calls, because what happens when we're on video calls is we're usually at home. We're more relaxed, we're in back to back virtual meetings. We're tired. We're going to get on a call and we're gonna go into the How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good too. That's like such a missed opportunity if you're talking to an executive. So when you break out of the autopilot conversations and it doesn't take much, it's small tweaks. Instead of how was your weekend? You might ask what was the highlight of your weekend? And then when they ask you questions, offer up something besides good. If they ask, how are you can say good and say, oh, I just finished listening to this podcast. Or I was able to go on a run this weekend just providing something a little bit more. It's a concept called conversational threading, where you're giving threads that they can pull from. And also asking questions that allow them to give you threads. So that will allow you to connect much more easily and build those relationships at the start of a call. Again, with not very much time. And then the second thing I would say is you have to be really intentional about your virtual and video presence. I see you, Matthew, you have a really nice setup. Like I know you have the lighting, you have your background like.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458I try really hard
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah, you thought about it, right? And you look professional. Now imagine I'm getting on a call and you're the executive and I'm in a dark room, or I'm on my laptop and it's like going at a weird angle, or I look super small on screen or too big on screen. It just, doesn't leave a good impression. And so just be thoughtful about I call it the T methods or tech. Energy and aesthetics on a call. So that's, a bunch of different factors, but thinking through method and those things that you need to think about before you get on a call to make sure you're showing up well, that also, subconsciously or otherwise, will leave a strong impression. And if you're only, interacting or mostly interacting on video, these are key moments you want to take advantage of.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Do you have frameworks that listeners can connect with, so they can work on their own UPI or you mentioned something else,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458The team method. Yes. Yes the book will have all of that in there, but there are some pre-order bonuses as well if people want to grab those. And then I do have free resources on my website as well. So if you go to lorraine kaylee.com you'll find free resources amongst a bunch of different topics that you can grab.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458What are some strategies for introverts to visibility while remaining comfortable and being themselves?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458That's a important question. I am an introvert. And yeah, I can be really uncomfortable, but I think what introverts have to remember is that introverts have a lot of strength. There's a ton of introvert superpowers. We just have to tap into them. So for example, in a meeting, I might not be super comfortable jumping in and figuring out when to unmute, but I'm a strong writer. And so I can write my thoughts in the chat, or perhaps after the call is over, I can just think a little bit more and send a summary or connect the dots in some way in a way that others aren't able to. So leaning into strengths like that I think is very important. And the thing about introverts is because you're not always talking, when you do talk, people listen. So that's also very powerful and something to remember. Introverts also are really good at relationship building. So that's also something to keep in mind, work, productivity just all the things that come out of your work influence, right? All these things that we want in a professional setting come from relationships. So you might not feel comfortable in a big, happy hour, but schedule those one-on-one meetings to connect with others to get buy-in perhaps before the big meeting. That will take you very far. And yeah, the relationships are the foundation, I feel like of the office. So that's such a superpower. I think that introverts have.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458All of these factors of improving presence and having it, none of that really matters if you don't talk to anybody. I think what coincides with this is networking events and I'll share really honestly. So like my very first job, like real job was selling newspaper ads for business journal, and part of that was going to. Every networking event ever. I've talked about it before on the podcast, a lot of networking events, it just so happened that a lot of the top CEOs and the companies, business owners very powerful people were also at a lot of these networking events. Not all of 'em, but many of them. And I remember my feeling, to be perfectly honest, is like I am the very. Bottom of the totem pole, of the list of people that who a conversation matters for this Fortune 500 CEO that's in the room. I love to meet them. I'm not gonna try and sell them something. I'd love to come up and say hi, I admire your work whatever. I would also have this feeling there should be a line of 500 other people that their conversation matters more than mine. For listeners, anyone, hopefully that can relate to that or hopefully you've never felt that way, but I know I felt that way early in my career. What are some practical ways to reframe that self-doubt and build an authentic confidence to talk to people, whether it's a CEO or just whoever happens to be next to you in a room.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458I think sometimes it can get very nerve wracking. Trying to approach strangers. And I think a lot of it is like we, we can build it up in our head, right? And we have to remember everyone's a person. And I think this is especially true with executives because it is very easy to psych yourself out when you're talking to someone more senior. So remembering that we're all people, we all have, shared experiences in some way. And I think that's a very helpful grounding thing to do. If you're nervous talking to people, it's helpful as well. Some strategies that might work are bringing an extroverted buddy with you or someone who knows other people in the room who can help facilitate introductions. Sometimes it's just about breaking the ice. That's the hardest part. So having someone there to do that is really helpful. And then one thing that's worked really well for me actually is. Finding or getting the attendee list ahead of time. And then finding them all on LinkedIn. Adding them on LinkedIn. And I remember I did this a few months ago and someone actually came up to me, they were like, oh you added me on LinkedIn. And so that was just so easy. Like people were coming up to me because not a lot of people do that. I think that's a really great way to stand out and then have that breaking the ice moment when people are coming to you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458The risk is doing this without a plan, am I gonna have a presence of the funny person or the confident person or the knows everything person or whatever. And maybe those are all bad ideas, by the way. I think not having a plan or a vision. For your brand could leave you going in circles on this and maybe trying out different personas, which is probably natural, but also not lead you to an end goal. Is there a strategy of how people can start building one.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458I created something called the Epic Career Brand Framework. Because to your point, when you think of brand, you're like, where do I start? And so EPIC stands for experiences personality, identity and community. And so experiences you can take that from your professional life, from your personal life. Personality. I'm more introverted, for example. I'm perhaps more serious. Versus playful. So just understanding the different, what you bring to the table, your personality identity, that can be your cultural background. It can be your values, for example, for me, relationships are super important at work, and I find it very important to follow through on what I say I'm going to do. So that's something that I want to be known for. And the C which is perhaps one of the more important pieces that people forget about is your community. When you create your brand and you start thinking about formulating your brand, it's great as a first step, but if your community is not seeing you the way that you want to be perceived, then there's a disconnect that you have to fix. So sometimes if perhaps your brand is too aspirational and you're up here and your community seeing you down here, you have to maybe. Progress a little bit more along the way, and your brand can change over time and transform depending on life stage and career goals and all that. But that's a helpful framework to start thinking through. Okay, what makes me special? What do I value and what do I wanna put out into the world?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Can you tell us a little bit more about why you wrote the book it sounds like an incredible amount of time and energy went into researching and planning and writing it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Wrote the book because, and I think similar to you, like I wanna help people avoid the mistakes, the challenges that I had to go through. And it's the guide essentially that I wish I had when I was earlier on in my career I talk about this story at the beginning. I was a founding editor at LinkedIn, you mentioned at the start. And I loved my job at LinkedIn. I loved my coworkers. I worked on really big projects. My coworkers really liked me. But as hard as I tried, I could not figure out how to get promoted from that mid-level to that senior level, and I just, it was so frustrating because I knew I had all this potential and I just didn't know how to get others to see it. And so this book helps those really ambitious professionals. The high potential leaders go from overlooked and feeling perhaps unseen to unforgettable. And my goal with this book is to really break down all the elements of presence, like I mentioned earlier, it's your presentations, it's how you lead meetings, it's how you communicate, advocate for yourself, show up on LinkedIn, et cetera, et cetera. And provide a really clear roadmap about how you can exude a really strong presence in all those areas. And then that creates your unforgettable presence. So it's, again, it's not just the executive presence, but it's how can I be really intentional build on the already great work I'm doing right? Like everyone who's reading this book is probably already doing a wonderful job at executing, but how can I now just make some tweaks to uplevel to that next place?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458If someone reads it,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458what's one thing that you are confident it will make a positive impact on in their career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458hopefully so many things. But I would say probably one of the more impactful ones that take. Less amount of work, I think is a virtual presence. It's funny because sometimes people are like virtual presence haven't we all figured it out by now? And I'm like, no. I'm sure Matthew, you've been on calls too, where you're like, oh gosh. Like they're not, they're not thinking about it at all, or they're like looking off.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458Did they forget the cameras
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458what I like.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Exactly. Yeah, so I think I do feel like virtual presence has such big potential to really influence how people perceive you. And it doesn't take too much to optimize that and practice being better at that. And that's not just like the way you look on camera, right? But also at, hand gestures, your facial expressions the way you start off calls, the way you lead calls, all those different aspects.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458As I said in the introduction, career growth doesn't typically happen magically, and you, when you're listening, you probably have some level of presence, but I guarantee it can be better. So if there's no magic and if it's not just hard work, it's things like this and you have to invest in your career to get there. So I would highly recommend you get a copy of the book. Can you remind me when it comes out
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Or so it's out April 22nd and you can buy it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble pretty much wherever you get your books. And then if you pre-order the book unforgettable presence book.com, you can visit that page and upload your pre-order receipt and get a lot of extra bonuses and goodies.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458I'm going to buy it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458Thank you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458It's a huge advantage you can have against the competition, whether it be for a promotion or a job interview or anything else. Before we sign off, can you leave our listeners with some final words of wisdom or motivation?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_090458I would love your listeners to know that presence is something that all of us can cultivate and grow and strengthen. I am confident that after reading the book you are going to feel more confident and excited to really hone these skills. And like you said, like the soft skills, especially in this age of ai, like that's gonna be the special part of you, the part that helps differentiate you and helps you. Grow your career and become more future proof. So I'm excited for everyone to check it out.