The COVID Spike Protein Is Playing Hide and Seek in Your Brain (And Winning)

Today on Heliox, where evidence meets empathy, we explore fascinating new research about COVID-19's long-term effects on the brain. Our hosts dive into groundbreaking studies showing how the virus's spike protein can persist in brain tissue long after infection, potentially contributing to neurological symptoms. They discuss exciting findings about vaccine protection, emerging treatment possibilities, and the remarkable way scientists are piecing together this complex puzzle. Through thoughtful discussion, they balance concerning discoveries with hopeful developments, offering listeners a clear understanding of the latest science while maintaining a spirit of optimism about ongoing research efforts.

Long COVID Breakthrough:
Spike Proteins Persist in Brain for Years
https://scitechdaily.com/long-covid-breakthrough-spike-proteins-persist-in-brain-for-years/

Persistence of spike protein at the skull-meninges-brain axis may contribute to the neurological sequelae of COVID-19
https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(24)00438-4

Amyloidogenesis of SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.2c03925

This is Heliox: Where Evidence Meets Empathy

Independent, moderated, timely, deep, gentle, clinical, global, and community conversations about things that matter.  Breathe Easy, we go deep and lightly surface the big ideas.

Thanks for listening today!

Four recurring narratives underlie every episode: boundary dissolution, adaptive complexity, embodied knowledge, and quantum-like uncertainty. These aren’t just philosophical musings but frameworks for understanding our modern world. 

We hope you continue exploring our other podcasts, responding to the content, and checking out our related articles on the Heliox Podcast on Substack. 

Transcript

0:24

Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today, we're diving into something that's been causing a lot of discussion lately. The potential for COVID-19 to have long-term effects on the brain. Yes, very important topic. And we have some really interesting research to look at about the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and, you know, its impact on the brain even after the initial infection is gone. Yeah, that's what's so interesting to me about this. Like, I've been looking at this cell study and they use advanced imaging to look for the spike protein in samples after people have passed away. Post-mortem. Exactly. And they found it in some pretty unexpected places, like the skull. Really? Yeah, meninges and even the brain tissue itself. That's pretty wild. It is. And what's even more crazy is that the spike protein was present even in samples that didn't have any detectable virus. So, like, the virus itself was gone, but the spike protein was still hanging around. Yeah, that's a key finding here, isn't it? It really suggests that the spike protein could be sticking around in the body much longer than the actual virus and that it might be, you know, causing its own set of problems. Which is probably why people are experiencing these long COVID symptoms, right? Could very well be. It's something researchers are actively investigating. OK, so let's unpack this whole spike protein persistence thing. What's the latest on, like, how long it might hang around in the body and what could be the implications of that? Well, the exact time frame is still a bit of a mystery. You know, researchers are working on it. But it's clear that the spike protein, even without the active virus, could be a major player in those lingering, you know, long COVID symptoms people have. Right. And we're talking specifically about neurological symptoms here, right? So things like brain fog, fatigue and even cognitive decline. Exactly. And this study actually found higher levels of markers for neurodegeneration, you know, like Tau-NFL and GFAP in the cerebrospinal fluid of people with long COVID. So those markers basically tell us that something's not quite right in the brain. Yeah, they're like red flags. And this is even after the virus is gone. The spike protein might still be causing damage. That's a pretty unsettling thought. It is unsettling. Yeah. And that's why this research is so important. You know, we need to figure out what's going on and how to stop it. So how did they investigate the potential damage from the spike protein? What did they look at? Well, one of the things they focused on was the inflammatory response that's triggered by the spike protein. You know, your body's own immune system can sometimes cause more harm than good. Ah, so like that friendly fire scenario you hear about. Exactly. The immune system goes into overdrive and ends up damaging healthy tissue. And they actually saw significant changes in the expression of proteins related to inflammation in the skull marrow, the meninges and the brain. So inflammation in all the areas where they found that spike protein. Exactly. And what's really interesting is that they found similar changes in both human and mouse samples. Right. They used mouse models in this research too, didn't they? They did. They used two types, actually. K18 HACE2 mice, which are genetically modified to be susceptible to SARS-CoV-2, and wild type mice, which were directly injected with the spike protein. Okay, so two different approaches to studying the effects of the spike protein. Right. And it's a clever way to isolate the effects of the spike protein itself apart from the virus. And what did they find in the mice? Well, in both types of mice, they saw an accumulation of spike protein in various organs, including the brain. This further supports the idea that it can travel throughout the body and potentially cause problems in different places. So it's not just a superficial presence. The spike protein is actually getting into the cells and potentially causing some real damage. Exactly. And that's where the proteomic analyses come in. They really dug deep to see how the spike protein was affecting the cells at a molecular level. What were some of the things they discovered in those analyses? Did they find specific proteins that were affected? They did. They found that the spike protein was basically messing with the normal function of cells in the skull marrow, meninges, and brain, and especially cells involved in inflammation and the immune response. For example, they found an increase in GFAP, which is a marker for damage to the blood-brain barrier. That's concerning because the blood-brain barrier is supposed to protect the brain from harmful substances. Exactly. It's like a gatekeeper. And if that gatekeeper is damaged, then all sorts of things can get into the brain that shouldn't be there. Right. And it's not just the blood-brain barrier. They also found a decrease in MBP, didn't they? That protein that's essential for myelin. Yes, MBP, crucial for that protective coating around nerve fibers. Without it, our nerves can't transmit signals efficiently. So not only could the spike protein be weakening the brain's defenses, but it might also be interfering with the way our brains communicate. That's what the research is suggesting, yes. Wow. And you mentioned earlier about the GRIA1 protein, which is involved in regulating attention and sleep. They found that was dysregulated too, right? They did. It was another interesting finding that could explain why some people with long COVID have trouble focusing, concentrating, and sleeping. It's fascinating, but also a little bit scary to think that this tiny little protein can have such a widespread impact on our brains. It really highlights the complexity of the brain and how even small disruptions can have big consequences. But how is this damage actually happening at the cellular level? They mentioned something called "knetosis" in the study. Ah, yes. Knetosis. It stands for neutrophil extracellular traps. Basically, it's a process where neutrophils, which are a type of white blood cell, release these sticky webs to trap and kill pathogens. Like a spider web, but for germs. Yeah, kind of like that. All right. And while these nets are great at fighting off infection, they can also cause damage to surrounding tissues. So like using a grenade to kill a fly. Effective, but messy. A very vivid analogy. The researchers actually found evidence that knetosis is happening in response to the spike protein, which could be contributing to the inflammation and damage we see in the brain. Okay, so we've got spike protein, persistence inflammation, neurodegeneration, and now knetosis. It's a lot to take in, but it's becoming pretty clear that this spike protein can have some pretty long-lasting effects on the brain, even after the initial infection is gone. What other aspects of this research did they explore? Well, they also looked at the impact of the spike protein on pre-existing neurological conditions or injuries. They did this using mouse models. One model simulated a stroke, and the other simulated a traumatic brain injury. And did they find that the spike protein made those conditions worse? Unfortunately, yes, they did. In both models, exposure to the spike protein led to more severe neurological deficits and increased loss of brain tissue. Oh, wow. So that suggests that having COVID-19, even if it's a mild case, could potentially make it much harder to recover from a stroke or brain injury. That's a very real concern, and it highlights the need for more research to understand how to protect those who are most vulnerable to the long-term neurological effects of COVID. This is all pretty heavy stuff, but what about vaccines? Do they offer any protection against these long-term effects? Thankfully, there's some good news on that front. The researchers also looked at the impact of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine on spike protein accumulation in the brain. Oh, OK. Let's hear it. We need some good news after all of that. They used wild-type mice and infected them with the Omicron XBB.1.5 variant. Unlike the original strain, this variant can actually infect these wild-type mice. And what they found was really encouraging. The vaccinated mice had much lower levels of spike protein in their brains compared to the unvaccinated mice. Oh, that's amazing. So it seems like vaccination can actually help prevent that spike protein from even reaching the brain in the first place, even if you do get infected. That's what the research suggests, yes. That's a huge relief. So vaccines aren't just about preventing severe illness. They could also play a key role in reducing the risk of these long-term neurological effects we've been discussing. Absolutely. It really emphasizes how important vaccination is, you know, not just for individual protection, but also for potentially reducing long-term health risks. This research is definitely eye-opening. We've covered so much ground already, but there's still a lot more to unpack. I'm really intrigued by that finding about the spike protein and anxiety-like behavior in mice. Yeah, that was a fascinating observation. They weren't even infected with the virus. You know, they just injected them with the spike protein and started showing signs of anxiety. So the spike protein itself, independent of the virus, could be messing with the brain's chemistry. That's pretty mind-blowing. It is. It suggests that the spike protein might have a direct impact on how our brains function. And this opens up a whole new area of research into its potential role in other neurological and psychiatric conditions. Wow. If the spike protein can trigger anxiety, what else might it be influencing? That's a lot to think about. A lot to think about and a lot more research to be done. Thank you to everyone who has left such positive reviews on our podcast episodes. It helps to make the podcast visible to so many more people. We read them all. Back to Heliox, where evidence meets empathy. So before the break, we were talking about some pretty unsettling stuff, you know, like the potential for the spike protein to stick around in the brain and cause problems even after the initial COVID infection is gone. One thing that really caught my attention was that study that showed the spike protein could actually trigger anxiety-like behavior in mice just by itself. Yeah, that was a really interesting finding, wasn't it? Just having the spike protein present without any actual virus was enough to change their behavior. So that means the spike protein itself could be messing with brain function even if there's no active virus around. Exactly. It seems like it has a direct effect independent of any viral activity. Kind of opens up a can of worms, doesn't it? If it can influence anxiety, what other aspects of brain function could it be affecting? Yeah, it's a big question. It really makes us think about the spike protein's potential role in all sorts of neurological and psychiatric conditions. We're only just scratching the surface of understanding its impact, I think. It is a little unnerving to think about, but it's also fascinating from a purely scientific perspective. Oh, absolutely. It shows how interconnected our immune system and nervous system really are and how they both play a role in our overall health. Okay, so we've talked about the potential for brain damage, inflammation, and even anxiety, but you mentioned earlier that there was some positive news about vaccines. Can you tell us more about that? Of course. One of the most encouraging things to come out of this research is that vaccines can significantly reduce the amount of spike protein that accumulates in the brain. That is great news. So does that mean vaccination could be like a shield against these rogue spike proteins, even if you happen to get infected? That's what the research seems to suggest. The study we talked about with the Pfizer vaccine showed that vaccinated mice had way less spike protein in their brains compared to the unvaccinated mice. So basically, vaccines aren't just about preventing you from getting really sick. They could also be protecting you from these potential long-term brain issues. Exactly. It really underscores the importance of vaccination on multiple levels, you know, not just for you personally, but for everyone around you. This is definitely a glimmer of hope in all of this. But what about people who are already dealing with long COVID symptoms, particularly the neurological ones? Are there any treatments on the horizon that offer some hope? That's a great question. And thankfully, researchers are looking at all sorts of different treatment approaches. Some of them are focusing on anti-inflammatory drugs to try and calm down that overactive immune response and reduce inflammation in the brain. Others are investigating antiviral medications that might target any lingering virus or even the spike protein itself. So kind of like a multi-pronged attack on those spike proteins from different angles. Exactly. And while we're still in the early stages of research, there's a lot of optimism that we'll see significant progress in developing effective long COVID treatments in the next few years. It's definitely reassuring to know that scientists are working hard to address this challenge. But while those treatments are being developed, what can people do to manage their symptoms, especially the ones that affect their thinking and memory? Well, lifestyle changes and supportive therapies can definitely help. Things like making sure you get enough sleep, managing stress, staying physically active and eating a healthy diet are all good for brain health and can improve cognitive function. There are also cognitive rehabilitation programs that can help people regain lost skills and learn coping mechanisms for their symptoms. So basically taking a holistic approach that addresses both the physical and mental aspects of long COVID. Exactly. Long COVID is a complex condition and it needs a comprehensive approach to treatment and management. This research has really made me realize just how interconnected all of our biological systems are. It's amazing how this tiny protein can have such a huge impact on so many different aspects of our health. Yeah, it's a powerful reminder that everything in our bodies is linked together and that taking care of our overall health, both physical and mental, is so important. Well said. So we've talked a lot about the potentially negative effects of the spike protein, but I want to circle back to the research you mentioned about its impact on people who already have neurological conditions. What did those studies show? So those studies were looking at whether the spike protein could make pre-existing brain injuries or conditions worse. They used mouse models to simulate a stroke and a traumatic brain injury. And did the spike protein make those conditions worse in the mice? Yeah, unfortunately it did. They saw more severe neurological problems and greater brain tissue loss in both models after exposure to the spike protein. So that means if someone has a stroke or a brain injury and then they get COVID, even a mild case, it could make their recovery even harder. That's a real concern. And it highlights the need for more research, specifically into the long-term effects of COVID, on people who already have neurological issues, so we can develop ways to reduce those risks. This is all incredibly insightful, you know. But I think it's amazing how much we've learned about COVID in such a short time. The scientific community has really stepped up to try and understand this virus. Absolutely. It's really a testament to the power of science and collaboration and to the dedication and creativity of researchers all over the world. I totally agree. So I'm curious to hear what you think is next for research in this area. What are some of the big questions that scientists are still trying to answer? One of the most pressing questions is figuring out exactly how long the spike protein stays in the body after infection. Right. We know it lingers, but we don't know the exact timeline. Exactly. And knowing that timeline would be really helpful for developing treatments that can target the spike protein directly. Another big area of research is trying to figure out the exact mechanisms by which the spike protein affects the brain. So basically, how is it causing inflammation, disrupting the blood-brain barrier, and triggering anxiety? Right. It's about getting down to the nuts and bolts of how this protein is actually changing the way brain cells work. And then, of course, there's the ongoing research into treatments for long COVID. Any promising leads in that area? Researchers are looking into a wide range of possibilities, you know, anti-inflammatory drugs, antiviral medications, and even therapies that specifically target the spike protein itself. So like a multifaceted approach to tackling those troublesome spike proteins. Exactly. And while it's still early days, there's a lot of hope that we'll see some real breakthroughs in long COVID treatment in the coming years. That's good to hear. Now, before we move on, I wanted to touch on something you said earlier about the multifaceted approach to research. It seems like that's been really key in understanding the complex effects of COVID, right? Oh, absolutely. It wasn't just one single study or method that gave us all the answers. It was the combination of looking at human samples using mouse models, doing those proteomic analyses, and even studying behavior. It's like putting together a giant puzzle, you know? You need all the pieces to see the full picture. Exactly. And each piece contributes to our understanding in a different way. For example, the human studies gave us real-world evidence that the spike protein was sticking around and potentially causing neurological problems. And then the mouse models allowed researchers to get a more detailed look at what was happening in the brain under controlled conditions. Exactly. And then the proteomic analyses gave us that incredibly detailed molecular-level view of how the spike protein was changing the way cells were functioning. And then those behavioral studies really brought it home by showing that the spike protein could actually directly affect brain function, even without the virus being present. It really goes to show the power of scientific collaboration and the importance of using a variety of different tools to tackle complex scientific problems. This research really underscores the fact that we're still learning so much about COVID, you know, even years after it first appeared. Absolutely. This virus has been full of surprises, and we're constantly having to adjust our understanding as new information comes to light. And it highlights the importance of staying informed and keeping an open mind. Absolutely. We have to be willing to adapt our thinking as the science evolves. It's a good reminder that science is an ongoing process, you know? It's not about having all the answers right away. It's about constantly learning and refining our understanding. Well said. And it's a process that takes time and persistence and a commitment to following the evidence wherever it may lead. Okay. Well, we've covered a lot of heavy topics today, and I think it's important to end on a positive note. What are some key things you think our listeners should take away from all of this as we continue to navigate this pandemic and its potential long-term effects? Well, I think the most important thing is that vaccination is still our best defense against both acute COVID-19 and those potential long-term neurological issues. Absolutely. Vaccines are truly a game changer. We also need to raise awareness about the possibility of long-term neurological effects, even in people who had mild or asymptomatic COVID infections. Right. We can't afford to downplay the seriousness of this virus just because some people don't get severely ill. And of course, we need to keep investing in research to better understand the mechanisms behind long COVID to develop effective treatments and ultimately find a cure. And of course, we can't forget about the importance of supporting people who are already suffering from long COVID. Absolutely. This is a condition that can have a huge impact on people's lives, and they need our understanding and support. Well said. OK, let's take a quick break to gather our thoughts. And when we come back, we'll wrap up this deep dive with some final thoughts and a call to action. Find related articles for our podcast episodes at Heliox Podcasts on Substack. Helioxpodcast.substack.com. Join the conversation. Back to Heliox, where evidence meets empathy. Welcome back to the deep dive. It's been a pretty intense discussion today. You know, as we've been digging into all this research about the long-term neurological effects of COVID, it's clear that there are still a lot of unanswered questions. But even with all the uncertainty, there's definitely a sense of hope coming from the scientific community. Yeah, I agree. It is concerning, but it also shows just how much progress has been made, you know, in such a short time. Totally. And that progress wouldn't be happening without all those brilliant researchers around the world collaborating and sharing their findings. Right. It's a real team effort. And speaking of teamwork, you know, one thing that's really stood out to me in all of this is how important it's been to take a multifaceted approach to the research. It wasn't just one study or one method that cracked the code. It was the combination of different perspectives and techniques. Exactly. We had those human studies providing real world evidence, you know, and the mouse models allowed the researchers to really dig into the mechanisms and control the variables. And then the proteomics gave us that detailed look at the molecular level. Yeah. And we can't forget the behavioral studies. Those were fascinating. It's amazing to see how all of these pieces fit together like a puzzle. It really highlights the power of bringing together different approaches, you know, using all the tools in the toolbox to solve these complex problems. For sure. And that collaborative spirit needs to continue. There's still so much we don't know about the long term effects of COVID and we need more research to find effective treatments and ways to prevent these issues from happening in the first place. Absolutely. It's an ongoing journey. Well, this deep dive has been a real eye opener. And while it's definitely raised some concerns, it's also made me feel more informed, more powered, you know, like I have a better understanding of what's going on. Knowledge is power. Right. Exactly. And when it comes to our health, it's the most important kind of power. We can use this information to make smart decisions about our own well-being and to advocate for more research and support for people who are dealing with long COVID. Couldn't agree more. OK, so we've talked about the persistence of the spike protein and all those inflammatory effects and, of course, the promising news about vaccines and potential treatments. But I think one of the biggest takeaways from all of this is that the pandemic isn't really over, you know. And we're still learning about its long term effects. Yeah, it's important to remember that. So we all need to stay vigilant, stay informed and keep doing those things that protect both ourselves and our communities. Exactly. It's not time to let our guard down. Well, this has been a fascinating deep dive into a really important topic. And I hope it's left you feeling as informed and engaged as I am. Me too. Thanks for joining us on the deep dive. We'll see you next time for another exploration into the world of science and discovery. Until then, stay healthy, stay curious and keep those minds engaged.