The Sacrifice of Mungo McDonald

See the corresponding Substack episode.

The story of Pope Mungo reveals what happens when our comfortable moral categories collapse under the weight of real evil

I've been thinking about a question that keeps me awake at night: What happens when love demands something so radical that it becomes unrecognizable as love at all?

This isn't theoretical philosophy. It's the kind of question that emerges when you're staring down absolute evil and all your comfortable moral frameworks crumble like ancient parchment.

Sacrifice Kindle Edition by Ulrich Schaffer (Author) Format: Kindle Edition

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Transcript

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Sacrifice was written in German by Ulrich Schaefer in 2014 and then translated into English by the author in 2016, released in 2025 in English. This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events, and incidents are either the product of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. Okay, let's unpack this. imagine a man born on this really remote Scottish island his life just takes this utterly improbable turn right leads him to the very top the pinnacle of global religious authority yeah but it's not really the title that defines him it's this impossible choice he's forced into the world's consumed by this is unspeakable evil and it raises these huge questions like Can killing ever be an act of love? Is defying centuries of doctrine the only way to show true compassion? That's the extraordinary journey we're taking a deep dive into today. Exactly. What a compelling way to frame it. We're exploring the life of Mungo McDonald, a deeply thoughtful guy, really unconventional. His personal struggles kind of collided head on with this massive global crisis. And we've got this fascinating stack of his own stuff, reflections, letters, narrative accounts. so our mission here is to really dissect his path you know his surprising rise to the papacy and these profound ethical spiritual dilemmas he faced it's not just what he did no not just the what it's about understanding the why the really personal theological foundations that pushed him to well redefine what being a person of faith even means and asking why it matters when you're staring absolute tyranny in the face and his beginning was well it was a long way from the vatican wasn't it mungo macdonald born on the isle of lewis outer hebrides december twenty fourth And the birth itself is complicated. The doctor involved was, let's just say, maybe had a bit too much festive cheer. Yeah, the sources are quite blunt about that. The birth finished in an ambulance. It sounds like something from a storybook, almost. And maybe it foreshadowed just how improbable his whole life would be. This early challenge, it sort of set the tone, didn't it? Overcoming the odds. it really did and you see that fierce sense of justice emerge really early on when he was seventeen his mother died he believed it was because of that same doctor's negligence and he confronted him oh yeah in this moment of just raw grief he actually threatened the doctor with an empty whiskey bottle injured his arm. It's a stark early sign of that commitment to justice, however rough. That unconventional spirit, you see it again when he embraces atheism at 19. Right. He actually called it a celebration of his lost faith with his friends. Convinced God just didn't exist. Not in the usual way anyway. But at the same time, he finds this deep connection to the island. Paradoxical, isn't it? He found this profound sense of freedom in the landscapes of Lewis, especially the sky, you know, stretching out like a cloth, he said. This wild, untamed nature really shaped him. And there's that defining moment on the beach, Lusk and Tyre Beach. Oh, that's incredible. Caught in this violent thunderstorm, lightning striking super close, less than 100 yards away. But he felt zero fear. Zero fear. Instead, he sees this fisherman with a badly broken leg and he just acts. He splints the leg with driftwood in his own undershirt. Carries the guy two kilometers to get help. And the key thing is he didn't want any praise for it. No. Just quiet heroism. Yeah. Very telling. So after that lost faith celebration, he doesn't stay on the island. He takes off. Yeah. Nothing holding him there. He starts these extensive travels. Europe, Central America, South America. Supporting himself how? All sorts. Building furniture, welding. He was good with his hands, playing guitar on the street, translating. He looked back on it later. You know, saw these wanderings as preparation for the later part of his life, driven by this constant restlessness. Preparation. Do you think those diverse experiences, I mean, street musician to welder, how did they actually prepare him for, well, becoming Pope Mungo? Well, it wasn't just about skills, right? It was about... really immersing himself in humanity, different cultures, different struggles. And maybe, like the sources hint, it let him live at the edge of the system really early on. Edge of the system. Yeah, this radical self-reliance keen observation. So then at 23, he lands in Montreal, bilingual city. Felt pretty alone at first, apparently. Found his uncle's adopted sort of North American manners, a bit fake, a caricature. And it's there he meets Olivia. Right. Olivia, a painter from London. met in a crowded restaurant their love story it describes so uniquely deep attentiveness non-possessive yeah show their souls without fear of closeness the source says he felt whole with her a really rare complete connection but then Something shifts him onto a totally different track. Yvonne. The dying child. Over 50 years ago now, she was transparent, like she brought another world into this one. What was it about her that cut through to this atheist wanderer? Yvonne wasn't just sick. She had this clarity, you know, seemed to pierce right through his defenses. She told him straight up, you have not yet found your true purpose. Oh, yeah. And you need to think about why you are on this earth. Even suggested incredibly, maybe you don't have to kill the fish. Kill the fish? What does that even mean? So enigmatic, isn't it? Maybe about preservation. A moral choice. We don't fully know. But her dying in his hands that moment haunted him for a long time. It was like a seed planted. And Olivia. Olivia gets it immediately when he tells her. Instantly, she cried. Just intuited that Mungo was, well, destined for something else, something bigger. That would eventually mean he'd have to leave her. Yeah. She saw an inner fire in him, urged him to follow his inner calling. That must have been unbelievably hard for both of them. They had wedding plans. Terribly hard. The sources call it his first encounter with the relentlessness of the inner world. The relentlessness of the inner world. What does that capture exactly? It's an undeniable pull, isn't it? Your authentic calling, even when it demands huge personal sacrifice. He didn't want to leave Olivia, but they both realized the massive sacrifice it would be for her not to have a family. And for him, too. So the calling was stronger. It seemed to be so powerful. It just demanded he reorients his whole life, even giving up that deep personal happiness. His atheism starts to fade around that. He even starts going to Olivia's church, kind of envying her relaxation and security. And he connects with her priest, Pierre. Right. And Pierre helps him see his atheism differently, not just rejecting God, but as an intellectual achievement, a way he protected himself from disappointment. That's a fascinating way to put it, a shield. Exactly. And once that shield started to soften, his natural compassion could kind of take over. Then he goes with Pierre on this summer trip to Africa, building a hospital. And that experience? He said he was never so happy in his life. That practical, selfless work just clicked with something deep inside him. It's that active love he'd champion later. And then comes the decision. Yeah. Stir for six. He's with Olivia. And he decides. He's going to become a priest. And Olivia's reaction. She wept again. Said, that's what I meant. You'll leave me for something bigger. And he did. But his path into the church, it wasn't exactly smooth sailing, was it? Oh, no. Ridicably unique. As a seminarian, a rebel from the start. So much so, he was almost stopped from being ordained. So how does this unconventional, rebellious figure actually manage to, you know, work his way up through the church ranks? It seems counterintuitive. It really does. but it speaks to his charisma i think and his genuine spiritual depth even if his methods weren't by the book his career path was all over the place montreal the canadian prairies which strangely reminded him of lewis that vastness then latin america africa london back to montreal he kept moving always But he rose through the hierarchy, eventually became Archbishop of Montreal, didn't seek it out apparently, but accepted it for the greater opportunities for influence. But he stayed connected to Olivia. Lifelong connection. Visited her every year, sought her opinion on things, personal stuff, church matters, kept her letters, the important ones, in this little wooden box he carried everywhere. Wow. That shows how integrated his life was, doesn't it? Personal, spiritual, all intertwined. Completely. But then there's this other bizarre event. as a young priest in montreal the accidental miracle right the st lawrence river incident sees a young man fall in icy water trapped by ice flows mungo's just frozen fear can't do anything but a little helplessness and in that moment he just lifts his hands sort of moves them in the air and the ice flows just seemed to drift around the young man, letting him get to shore. And someone filmed it. Yeah, it was on the news. The anchor was looking for the man with the hands. But Mungo didn't come forward. Dismissed it. Coincidence. Famously said, Miracles are for beginners in faith. Miracles are for beginners in faith. What did he mean by that? And did he stick with that dismissal? It's a powerful line, isn't it? Suggests real faith doesn't need flashy signs. It's deeper, internal. But what's interesting is, despite saying that, the sheer uniqueness of it, it never happened again, though he watched the river. It eventually opened up inside him. So he couldn't entirely shake it off as coincidence. Seems not. He couldn't quite explain it away rationally. It slowly chipped away at the skepticism, maybe hinting at something more, a quiet kind of awakening. Okay, so fast forward. The ultimate unexpected step. The papal election. Yeah, the conclaves deadlocked. Twelve ballots, four factions, all dug in, can't agree, contentious. And Mungo McDonald. Not even on the radar. Not at all. Bookmakers weren't mentioning him. He was focused on promoting life, being close to people, not playing the political game. But then his private writing goes public. Exactly. Yeah. This is where it gets wild. A year before, he'd written this really heartfelt, handwritten booklet, Dear Caitlin, for his 15-year-old grandies. Ah. Meant just for her. But someone found it. An editor discovered it, and boom, international bestseller. Gets cited in sermons by a priest who loved it, and hilariously by a televangelist who criticized it, because it didn't mention sin and redemption at all. So everyone's reading it. Including the cardinals. Apparently. Yeah. This widespread circulation brought it right to the attention of those deadlot cardinals. And then, the shocker, they elect Mungo MacDonald, Pope. Incredible. And his first act, choosing the name, Pope Mungo. A statement. right from the start, explicitly said he didn't want to take a previous pope's name, wanted to stay true to himself, the man behind the name, pointed out Mungo Canegurn was a Scottish saint. A nice touch. And Olivia's reaction to this? Wept for joy, the sources say. Saw it as the culmination of their whole spiritual connection. She even named her daughter Yvonne. Yeah. But then, the really baffling moment, first appearance St. Peter's Square. He takes off his papal garments, stands there in his long white underwear. A moment no one understands, is how it's described. He later said it was unconscious, his hands being wiser than I was myself. Wiser how? What was the message? A visceral rejection of the symbols, the office defining the man. he wanted to remain mungo mcdonald the boy from lewis the priest in montreal olivia's friend the street musician in rio caitlyn's great uncle katherine's friend it was his way a powerful way to resist veneration to stay human so he's pope mungo resisting veneration but the world the world isn't going to let him just be human is it the weight descends james elyson brutally soon after his election the full horror from a latin american country under this tyrant starts landing on his desk and it forces him towards that unthinkable choice we talked about the dictator Responsible for mass killings. The numbers are staggering. Amnesty International estimated 40,000 to 70,000 dead. Just horrifying numbers. And the stories from refugees reaching Mungo. Stomach churning. Stadium executions. A hundred men shot. One left screaming on the grass. Unimaginable. A pregnant woman's stomach cut open. Her baby thrown from a window. A child bleeding to death, trying to cross a river to safety. These aren't abstract reports. They're visceral. And the case of Lucia Lopez becomes this global symbol. The legs. World record runner. Arrested just for speaking out. Defied the dictator on TV with just silence. Powerful silence. And the price she paid. Unspeakable. They amputated all her limbs. In private. but she survived became a nobel peace tries nominee a huge symbol of resistance she quoted a chilian poetess my soul is a universe without end that not even i know how do you ridiculous one want to tell me how i should live incredible defiance and mungo felt connected to her suffering fatefully intertwined the sources say With her, with the whole country's plight, it got under his skin, wouldn't let him rest. That quote from Lucia, after what she endured, it just hit so hard. You can see how these stories would just crush a person. Mungo's distress, it just grew and grew, feeling the weight of the world. Exactly. And this is where that terrifying question really claws its way into his mind. Can killing be an act of love? is tyrannosite an option. How does a man like him, whose faith is so rooted in connection and compassion, even start down that path? It's a horrific paradox, isn't it? The idea first flickered during Idi Amin's time in Uganda. He thought about that theological not life from death, God sacrificing his son, always made him uncomfortable. But now it wasn't abstract theology. No, now it was immediate. He felt his innocence was just gone. Knew whatever he did next would be a choice of the lesser evil. He started studying the plot against Hitler, Bonhoeffer, grappling with direct action versus, you know, the paralysis of doing nothing. Worried about his own motives, too. Retribution, revenge. Yeah, deeply worried about that. He looked at Gandhi's path, nonviolence, but realized... This situation felt different. This wasn't just philosophy. This was trying to stop ongoing mass murder. And then the dictator himself invites Mungo to visit. Which Mungo immediately saw as a trap. Insulting. Thought the dictator saw him as someone who could be taught for sale. So he wrote a letter rejecting the invitation. He did. But then these severe kidney pains hit him, laid him up at home. And that evening, he gets this email, seems totally ordinary, from his nephew back in Stornoway. Family photos. But one photo changes everything. Chillingly so. It clearly shows his grandfather's gun cabinet. And in it, a specific revolver, the one used to shoot a Franco general back in the Spanish Civil War. And seeing that gun... It sparks the thought. Terrifying. I see myself with a revolver. He instantly calls the secretary, tells her to hold that rejection letter. Don't send it. He starts to think this is why he became Pope. Yeah. For this strange reason. Because he'd always lived at the edge of the system, wasn't bound by the usual thinking. His whole life, those travels, the struggles, felt like preparation for this one mission. And the terrible moral math hits him. If I kill one, I will save thousands. If I save one, I will kill thousands. the weight of that unimaginable he couldn't carry that alone surely he talks to katherine his Yeah. advisor he does shares these distressing thoughts asks her how does god see it is it forgivable he felt the church's official stance just wasn't cutting it not nuanced enough not courageous he lays out the four things that threw him off balance yeah his election the dictator's invitation those horror stories from the delegation and then the revolver in the email He says, imagine this, the Pope of love is willing to murder. And Catherine's reaction. Shocked, of course. But wise enough not to argue directly. She knew how determined he could be. So Mungo takes it to God directly. In this incredibly powerful prayer, confronts God. How can you tolerate what is happening? details the suffering like that 10 year old boy forced to watch his parents executed and God's silence he reads at how not as indifference but as a challenge an invitation God relying on me that's when he decides two bullets in the five chamber revolver three empty chambers leaving room for god maybe he declares i am your arm just as you are mine he debates it with katherine too argues that love has to be strong yeah if love fails when it counts then it is weak catherine wrestling with it herself suggests maybe real love sometimes has to be capable of killing like a surgeon cutting out a tumor and mungo challenges the whole leave the ninety-nine for the one idea exactly says a thousand lives are worth more than one life especially when the whole flock is threatened by the wolf He saw the church's usual inaction in these cases as complicity. He thinks about Mary, too, the relative who helped thousands but couldn't bear the suffering anymore. Right. He feels he has to kill, to set in motion the blessing that thousands can continue to live. But he knows the act is inherently tainted. He's grappling with losing his innocence. Comes to this conclusion. There is no life without guilt. Being on this planet means being guilty. It's like he's rewriting the definition of guilt itself. It really seems like it. He even wonders if religious guilt is just a human invention. Right. Maybe it's simply about supporting life wherever you can. He thinks about Sophie's choice, that awful forced choice, and realizes, I must not be weak for then thousands more will perish. He starts to see this as adult faith. Yes, that God wants humans to be adult, to take responsibility, to be... pioneers, adventurers of the spirit. This, he felt, was his real encounter with God, this adult life spirituality. And he talks more with Catherine in Italy. Yeah, this intense private conversation in an olive grove near Florence. He tells her his take on the failed Hitler plot. Stauffenberg should have sacrificed himself directly. His belief, God just watches when we do something. He doesn't intervene. We are alone. It is his trust in us. So no last minute divine intervention expected. He's on his own. That's how he saw it. He admits he's terrified. Fear of failure. Fear the dictator's violence. But declares he has to sacrifice my soul, perhaps even my salvation, to save these people. And Catherine performs this symbolic act, washing his feet. In a stream. Their blood mingles from small cuts, a shared burden, purification maybe. Mungo just weeps, feels so human. Catherine suggests maybe he should decide right there in the moment with the dictator, hoping God might guide him then. But Mungo feels God expects him to act alone. Yes. He even admits he tried to back out, went to the river tiber with the revolver, thinking of throwing it in. But the weight of not acting, of letting the killing continue... felt even heavier. And Catherine, sensing his resolve, she affirms him, tells him he's already living this love, kind of frees him from needing more words, more justification. His mind is made up. So he prepares the statement for Catherine to release afterwards. Right. Acknowledging he's acting against existing law, but arguing for interpretation in these extreme circumstances. It says his act isn't exemplary. It's unique to this tyrant. Yeah. That he's stepping above the Ten Commandments because of the great emergency. He criticizes the world, too. Yeah. The world's poverty and lacking effective international justice. Says his personal intervention is sadly unbearable. necessary. The stage is absolutely set. Then, just days before he leaves, the news breaks. Forty people arrested in the dictator's country, just for writing letters complaining to the Pope. Proof the visit is a trap. Does he reconsider? Does Catherine try to go with him? She offers, but he refuses. Decides to go only with his secretary, keeping him completely in the dark about the real plan. And on arrival, immediate intimidation. A shot shatters the car's windshield. Clear message. But Mungo doesn't flinch, tells the driver, continue, slowly. What an incredible moment of defiance in front of the crowds. Yes. It resonates with the silent crowds watching. He basically wins the first round psychologically. Yeah. Just with that steady resolve. Then the mass in the stadium must have been overwhelming. hugely powerful a collective cry of millions of sufferers mungo felt felt the wound that grows larger in these people day by day and during it this young woman secretly slips him an envelope containing a baby tooth Yeah. later in prayer he understands her name is victoria so poignant that night back at the hotel he gets visitors clandestine visit three representatives military government church resistance they confirm everything the brutality, the dictator ripping the heart out of our people, but also, crucially, that he's internally weak, rules only by fear. And they reveal something else about outside support. Yeah. American intelligence agencies are backing the dictator, and they tell Mungo flat out only his death will break the tyranny, not kidnapping. People are too afraid he'd come back. He must die. There is no other way. And then the final sickening blow. Horrifying news. The dictator executed three priests. During Mungo's mass, timed it exactly to Mungo's MN, deliberately involving the Pope in the killings. Oh my god, how did Mungo react? Felt sick, like he had blood on his hands. Any lingering doubt just evaporated. This solidified everything. So, the showdown. The meeting. Fortress-like office. Guards. An Uzi on the desk. Yeah. Mungo feels intense fear. But not of dying. Fear of failing. And the dictator plays mind games immediately. Right away. Reveals he knew about the shot at the car. Yeah. Knew about the secret meeting with the resistance. Casually drops that Father Ernesto Mungo's friend, Rafael, has been liquidated for stirring things up. How does Mungo respond? Doesn't back down. Challenges him directly. Calls him a multiple murderer. States religion is too weak to govern a country. The dictator reaches for a weapon. Hand moves towards a pistol. But Mungo's calm resolve surprises him. Mungo then hits him with that provocative question. Can you imagine that I came to kill you because I love the thousands who will still die under your role? And the dictator in this moment of just pure arrogance. Turns his back. Actually turns his back and says, I am turning my back to you so you can murder me more easily. This is your chance. Mungo hesitates. Doubts himself. For a second. Yes. Questions his own weakness. But then the dictator confirms the amnesty was just a trap designed to lure out opponents. Yes. Which makes Mungo feel even more responsible. Exactly. He declares this makes his act more necessary. He's now directly responsible for those people's deaths. The dictator just mocks him. Mocks his saccharine love, calls Christ a weakling, God a failure, brags about his own power. Mungo feels ridiculous, but then... Rage surges. but it transforms into being a defender of life. And then he lays out the plan, the absolutely ardacious plan. I repeat, I have come to kill you, but I would like to have your blessing for it, warns him not to ring the bell, reveals the revolver under his robes. And he gives the dictator the three options. Yes. One, assassination, both die, people saved. Two, suicide, dictator kills himself, Mungo might live, people saved. And the third, the dream option. The radical change, of course. Right. Dictator releases prisoners, calls elections, returns the money. Yeah. Mungo offers to be his advisor, help build a humane society. How does the dictator react to that? Confused. Claims his system is too entrenched to change. Mungo shoots back. Anarchy already reigns. Offering this bizarre chance to be a role model for dictators everywhere. Mungo keeps pushing. Your whole life is soaked in blood. Yeah. Then the dictator gets a phone call. Mungo understands the language. Keshua realizes it's a betrayal attempt and actually interrupts the call. Incredible nerve. He's certain now. Absolutely. Holds the revolver openly under his robes. He recites the child's letter, Mario's letter, from memory, highlighting the hopelessness, the terror. criticizes his own predecessors for their inaction against past tyrants i am not willing to hold back challenges the dictator about his misdeeds brings up lucia lopez's dismemberment warns him you are about to leave humanity forever and become only a beast and the dictator starts to break his composure cracks body loses its elasticity Mungo senses it could be resignation could be a trick the climax the absolute peak Mungo says this is the moment autoly turns the revolver drum under his robe raises the barrel aims pulls the trigger goink Just a click. The chamber's empty. The first chamber? Empty. The dictator realizes. Realizes Mungo wasn't bluffing. His life flashes before him, this kaleidoscope of destruction and devastation. Sees his guilt, his madness, maybe a tiny spark of love from when he was 14. click He instinctively scrambles for his own weapon, the submachine gun. Mungo turns the drum again. To the second bullet. Yes. His finger's on the trigger. But he hesitates. this realization hits him. Love must always have two sides. It must challenge, and it must completely turn to the other person and hold nothing back. And in that instant... He slams a revolver down onto the dictator's desk. Useless. He's proven he could do it, would do it, but in that final moment, he chooses another way. Leaves the choice to the dictator. The gun is there. The dictator sees it. Sees he can choose. And in that split second, before the dictator can aim his own weapon, Mungo just closes his eyes, sees Catherine's face, encouraging him, and calmly waits. Wow. Just wow. To really get our heads around that moment, that incredible final choice, we absolutely have to go back to his letter, the Dear Caitlin letter. Yes. It's not just background. It feels like the blueprint for the man who stood in that office, the why behind it all. It absolutely is. That letter, which ironically pushed him to the papacy, it's this powerful map of his whole worldview. His core beliefs about life, love, faith, responsibility, they all crystallize there. It shows how his inner life directly feel those radical outer actions. And it's relevant for us, for you listening. Totally, because he's not just talking to his grandies. He's laying out a kind of roadmap for living a truly meaningful, impactful life. His idea of life is the great unfolding. It's not just pretty language. It's radical. It reframes everything. It asks you to embrace life's uncertainty, its potential. Like a leaf unrolling in spring, he says. Nothing's predetermined. It invites discovery, surrender, not rigid control. And at the core of this unfolding is authenticity, being direct. Crucial. He tells Caitlin, don't compromise your core self, your attitudes, values, beliefs, even if it means challenging people like a boyfriend. Do not settle for half measures. He talks about the heart as being different from feelings or reason. Yeah, the heart is the seat of your will, your character. Acting from the heart for him means going beyond just desire or logic, tapping into deeper integrity, intentionality. It's not impulsive, then. No, it's a decision, like his love for Olivia. Founded, he said, on a decision to see the world in a particular way, not just fleeting feelings. That's how it deepened over 50 years. He argued that that kind of love, rooted in decision, can even extend to loving your enemies, because it's based on recognizing shared humanity, committing to life itself, not just affection. And his view of faith. Drawing on Paul Tillich, it wasn't about dogma. Not at all. Faith for Mungo was an open eye and an open ear for the things that matter to us. His own field of faith, he said, was the suffering and need of people. He tells Caitlin to find hers... Maybe it's relationships, maybe understanding people. So God isn't someone out there you strive for through rules? Exactly. God, for Mungo, was more like a symbol for what fundamentally matters to us. You encounter God, he believed, not by reaching for him, but by engaging deeply with what truly moves you, concerns you, right here, God unfolds where we unfold. God is an enabler of maturity. Yes. Enabling human maturity, independence. It completely reframed his spirituality around radical engagement with the world, not abstract piety. He talks about inner and outer beauty too, right? Tells Caitlin her inner beauty cultivated through gratitude is more important. Gratitude as a key to almost everything. Yeah. Allowing you to find or give meaning to anything that happens, good or bad. He was also really concerned about our numbness to suffering. deeply lamented societal desensitization kept saying we are one family worried about the growing brutality he proposed this idea of a form of love that could absorb and transform what is called evil how by facing our own shadows exactly by confronting our own inner darkness And he wanted the church to step up, practically. Using its great treasures. For massive humanitarian projects. Shifting focus from internal wealth to outward impact. For him, the church wasn't buildings or dogma. It was flesh and blood people. A community built on human closeness, mutual support. That was the new Great Reformation he envisioned. And he brings in that Jewish legend, or the 36 Righteous One. The Zykimic, who sustained the world through their righteousness, Mungo declares quite incredibly that he chose to be one of them, meaning he lived in the absolute center of the world knowing his life has consequences, no more evading responsibility. And he invites Caitlin to see herself that way too. Yes. It connects to Kant, the categorical imperative. Right. Living in such a way that your actions could be a universal moral standard. For Mungo, this wasn't abstract philosophy. It meant living with such integrity that even his most agonizing choice, like confronting the dictator if truly rooted in love, could, hypothetically, serve as a benchmark. He told Caitlin, do not be satisfied with small things because God is not satisfied with small things. It really is a profound call to step up and that direct plea, defend yourself, resist. So powerful. Resist external pressures. especially from people who mean well but try to run your life. He quotes Meister Eckhart, the price of inaction is far greater than the cost of making a mistake, always pushing against just sitting back. He wanted people to be affected by life, not cool. Exactly. Embrace being affected, touched, and moved. Being cool, he linked to being cold, emotionally distant. He stressed how even small choices like which train track to take can have huge downstream effects. live consciously and decisively. Which brings us right back to that final confrontation and his understanding of guilt. Yes. His later reflections, especially around the dictator plan, show him accepting there is no life without guilt, that being on this planet means being guilty. But he reframes it, concludes that perhaps every path to maturity leads through guilt, but guilt is not a bad thing as long as it ultimately leads to life. He was ready to sacrifice his own innocence for that greater life. so wrapping this up what does it all mean for us listening mungo mcdonald's journey from that island to that office it's more than just drama isn't it a much more it's this intense exploration of what it means to be truly alive truly responsible truly loving in a world that's often broken His willingness to face that moral abyss, to stand above the rules, to redefine love as something that can challenge, even offend, maybe even destroy, all in the service of life. It's just utterly compelling. It really is. It's a story that forces you, doesn't it, to rethink your own neat categories of good and evil, faith and action. Mungo didn't just talk about love. He embodied this radical, active form of it that took him right to the edge of everything he thought was right. And that final act in the dictator's office. slamming the gun down. After proving he would use it. It underscores this conviction in a love that ultimately chooses not to kill, even facing immense personal danger. It's this powerful testament, I think, to the idea that real strength comes from that deep, integrated understanding of yourself, of others, of the divine, however you frame it. Absolutely. Mungo McDonald's life really leaves us with these big questions, doesn't it? If the price of an action is far greater than the cost of making a mistake... what does it mean for us to live authentically, to face suffering head on, to be, as he put it, co-creators in regenerating the world?- Yeah.- And maybe the biggest one, what kind of love is actually required of us when silence and caution and just being traditionally good, when that's clearly no longer enough?