Hoxton Life

£80 Million AUM in 6 Years - UK Expats and the US Financial Planning Market with Matt Dean

• Hoxton Wealth

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In this episode of the Hoxton Life podcast, I sit down with Matt Dean, Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Hoxton Wealth, to explore his incredible journey from starting a business with no clients to managing £80 million in assets under management (AUM) in just six years. Matt shares how he carved out a highly profitable niche advising UK expats living in the US and explains why specialising can unlock unparalleled opportunities in the world of financial planning.

We delve into the growing expat market, with millions of UK and US citizens seeking international advice as they navigate life and retirement across borders. Matt also reveals how Hoxton Wealth’s multi-jurisdictional licences and cutting-edge technology allow advisers to seamlessly manage global client portfolios, all while leveraging the flexibility of remote work. Whether you’re an adviser looking to expand your career or an expat seeking clarity on your financial future, this episode offers invaluable insights into the power of global advice.

What’s Covered in This Episode:

  1. Matt’s Career Journey
    • How Matt went from zero clients to £80 million AUM in six years.
    • The impact of his Series 65 qualification, enabling him to advise US-based clients while working from the UK.
  2. The Power of Niching Down
    • Why specialising in UK expats in the US has been a game-changer.
    • Insights into the underserved UK-US expat market and its unique challenges.
  3. Expat Opportunities and Growing Trends
    • Over 5 million UK citizens and 5.5 million Americans living abroad.
    • Key drivers behind rising emigration, including economic opportunities, tax advantages, and quality of life improvements.
    • Predictions for continued growth in the global expat market.
  4. Global Advice Made Simple
    • How Hoxton Wealth’s multi-jurisdictional licences empower advisers to serve clients across borders.
    • The role of innovative technology, such as the Hoxton Wealth app, in aggregating and managing global assets.
  5. Lessons for Advisers and Expats
    • The importance of early financial planning for international clients.
    • How Matt’s concierge-style service helps clients navigate complex cross-border financial landscapes.

Ready to start your international financial planning career?

Hoxton Wealth is looking for ambitious individuals ready to take their careers to the next level. Whether you're interested in international financial planning, compliance, client servicing, or marketing roles within the financial sector, we offer unparalleled opportunities for growth and success.

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Curious about our career opportunities? Visit our website to explore open positions and learn more about joining the Hoxton Wealth team. Your journey in international financial planning starts here!

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Speaker 1:

You're one of the founders.

Speaker 2:

Any business was good business as far as I was concerned at the start. Love it. What was it like when you joined the business six years ago? That's an interesting question. There was no business. I'm also well aware that I needed to cut my teeth and learn my trade.

Speaker 1:

Keeps you on your toes as well and creates a more interesting role for you.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. People couldn't care less about tax. And that's what we need is more financial planning, career education.

Speaker 2:

Can I tailor that all together to build you a more complex, more coherent financial plan for the long run.

Speaker 1:

I believe I can, and anybody listening to this, I think, could reach out to you.

Speaker 2:

We won't be able to fix everything there. On day one I had nothing. Chris asked me if I'd like to get involved, which obviously said yes, hence why I'm sat here in front of you. What did you do? I felt very much that I needed to earn my place at the table. If that makes sense and that comes with experience. Right, I'm going to know, I'm going to hear about it. Unconscious learning, if you like. That's just inbuilt in America Wall Street.

Speaker 1:

Matt, thanks so much for joining me today on the Hoxton Life podcast, where we look at the careers of those that work for Hoxton Wealth. You're one of the founders. You've been here now for over six years. Yeah, started with Chris Ball, correct? Yeah, well, I'll tell you what Matt start there. What was it like when?

Speaker 2:

you joined the business six years ago. Well, I suppose that's an interesting question. There was no business when I joined six years ago, so the actual process started with, weirdly enough, a curry and a conversation with Chris, where he said he was looking at doing something like this. At the time I was working. I wasn't in advice, I was in financial services, I guess in the sense that I did FX, had my own business doing that, and Chris asked me if I'd like to get involved, to which I obviously said yes, hence why I'm sat here in front of you. So that's how it started out. The idea was that I would launch the UK offering while Chris was in Abu Dhabi at the time and he would launch in the Middle East. Since then, it's obviously gone from strength to strength and Chris has built on things in US, australia, europe, so it's expanded.

Speaker 2:

But, yeah, at the start it was just me and him. At the time he was already very successful within the industry, so he's one of the top advisors. He had a large amount of AUM. He obviously brought that in. I had nothing. I hadn't been an advisor before, so so I was very much learning as we went and, yeah, my goal was to catch up as quickly as possible and make sure I contributed to the growth of the business. So I started with obviously getting the FCA license firm up and running here and trying to bring on clients as quickly as possible, because as Chris expanded quickly and brought other advisors into the business, I felt very much that I needed to earn my place at the table, if that makes sense. So I needed to get up and running pretty quick, yeah, and help as much as I could. What?

Speaker 1:

was the strategy then around your client acquisition then. So you knew you had to get your. You know you had to bring business in. Chris already had a nice chunky book of business that he brought to the table. He started hiring new people. So what was your strategy? Because lots of people who are listening to this struggle really with business development and we can get on a bit about that in the podcast a bit later on. Yeah, but what did you do and what advice would you might give to people who are listening?

Speaker 2:

So I suppose the first and foremost thing was any business was good business as far as I was concerned at the start. So there was no, there was no client too little for me to sit down with. It was I need to be finding clients. I'm also well aware that I needed to cut my teeth and learn my trade. So sitting meetings, regardless of what was there, so that I could understand the process, because ultimately, moving a hundred, a hundred thousand pension or a 2 million pound pension is the same, it's the same bones, it's the same structure, often very similar investments. It's, you know, learning the process.

Speaker 2:

So it was do as many meetings as I possibly could and get as good as I could as quickly as possible. And that meant obviously business development. But I think business development is easier when reality is if anyone's willing to sit and talk to me, I'm willing to have the meeting. So it becomes a bit easier to find meetings to have. And then as you develop and as you get to a point where you've got more assets under management yourself and you've learned what you're good at and what you enjoy doing, you can start to narrow that field and target what you think is A valuable for you and the business but B you actually enjoy and want to be doing more of.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. So, looking at a niche, once you get your feet under the table, you've met loads and loads of people. You start to turn a load of stones over. You uncover, you discover, you start to build relationships with clients. You start to recognize what these opportunities might well be in like a specific client niche right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, correct.

Speaker 1:

Have you hyper-focused on a niche yourself?

Speaker 2:

I suppose I guess we'll touch on this, but I suppose the US, for me, has been a big area of focus. It's probably not a particularly well catered to market in terms of the amount of competition we have over there. You need to be licensed by the SEC, which we obviously are, to provide advice over there. There are an awful lot of Brits over there that have left behind significant assets as we touch on the market. People tend to go to the US because they've been invited by their company, and if your company is inviting you to the US and planning to get you a visa, it's because they're struggling to hire someone of your quality in the US, which means you're probably pretty good at what you do, You're probably pretty well paid, your assets are probably reasonably sizable, do?

Speaker 2:

You're probably pretty well paid, your assets are probably reasonably sizable and you're probably worth talking to from a prospect point of view. So it became clear to me that that was an area that I had the qualifications of Series 65 license UK qualified that I had an area of expertise and a niche for myself in and that it was a potentially very lucrative market in terms of the amount of clients there and the amount of assets there. Huge, Fantastic.

Speaker 1:

I love that Great overview. We're going to dig a little bit deeper because there's a few things that came up that people listening to this episode might not know about. One of those words you used was Series 65. Tell us a little bit about Series 65 and why do you need Series 65?

Speaker 2:

So if you want to give investment advice to people in the US, even on assets that they've got elsewhere, like the UK pensions, you need to be qualified in the US to give that advice In the US. That qualification, that investment qualification, is called the Series 65. You can take it in London. So that's what I did. So a few years back now I can't remember exactly when it was Not the most straightforward exam, but it is a multiple choice exam. I think it's three hours long, but with a bit of study you can certainly get it done. There's obviously crossovers. So if you're a UK qualified advisor, the same basic principles are there. You know a SIP, as we would know it is called an individual retirement account over there and so on. So you'll pick these things up. But getting that exam done, one multiple choice exam, puts you in a position where you can give advice to clients that at the moment perhaps underserviced.

Speaker 1:

How big is that?

Speaker 2:

opportunity. I mean, it's difficult for me to fully state the size of that opportunity. So, if you look at where wealth sits, the US is where it sits. There are and I believe the numbers are approaching trillions in sorry, they are in the trillions, not approaching trillions, they're in the trillions in US retirement assets. Those are huge, huge numbers compared to anywhere else in the world. So if you want to look at the pie, if you like, if you want to be managing people's assets, the US is where those assets are largest. It's much easier to carve out a tiny percentage of a huge pie than it is to focus on something that's already over-serviced and where the pie is not as big and there's already big players and so on.

Speaker 2:

So, and the other thing that makes it interesting there is that the, the competition that you're likely to face from, I suppose, the people that we were punching upwards towards and and trying to compete with eventually. But you know, you know, and that's probably a bit of an arrogant comment but Goldman Sachs, jp Morgan, but the types of accounts they manage are enormous. Their interest in what they would consider lower end retail clients of a million, two million, three million, is perhaps not as big as what you might find competing in the UK for those same accounts. In the UK that's a big account. To Goldman Sachs that's a tiny account which gives us the opportunity to go in and over service in that area. So if you're an individual advisor, sat here in the uk struggling to take on clients at those levels, but then you look at the us where actually the service they're getting from their current provider is not really that important to us. We'd rather you had 10 times that.

Speaker 1:

Um, actually much easier to get into that market and are these, uh, individuals that are expat, say, say they're from the uk and they moved to america, or are you dealing with actual americans that were born and raised there?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so typically it's uk expats that move there. Um, again, that's the niche. I am british, I sit here in the uk, um, so that's the niche that suits me. Um, the guys we have working out there bradley I know you've spoken to as well will tell you that the the us guys like dealing with us brits as well, so, but we can cater to the whole market.

Speaker 2:

I suppose, if you look at that sniper-like focus in terms of targeting what you think you're best at, the Brits is where we've started out, particularly with the niche that we're able to manage their UK assets in addition to the US, so where I really position myself as an advisor now. So if we're talking about what I would be discussing with a client, I consider myself a private wealth manager. I consider that I have a specific area of expertise, which, in particular, is UK US assets. I would suggest that a typical client of mine should have both. So that's the area that I can laser like focus on and really add support in. So if you've got retirement assets in the US, retirement assets in the UK, other retirement assets in the UK, other assets may be dotted around the world as well and you're looking for a holistic view of how to manage all of that and build a structured retirement plan. I'm your guy is basically the structure of what I'm doing.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic, great explanation. Thanks so much for that. I think people listening to this really want to understand how can you be a UK based financial planner planner but build a book of business in the us? So what have you? Just out of interest? Let's give some people some context. Yeah, what have you got under management? About 80 million, about 80 million, yeah, and you generated that in the last six years. Yes, that's huge. Well done, thanks. What percentage of that business is us?

Speaker 2:

about 80 80.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, how often do you go to the us?

Speaker 2:

well, you're gonna catch me, because the answer is not a lot. Um, the answer is not a lot. I do want to go more. Um, so I suppose giving you some substance to it's actually ties in with hoxton's journey as well. If we look back to the period in which I've been building that book, we set our business up not long before COVID hit.

Speaker 2:

I think Hoxton generally benefited quite well. I don't want to say COVID was a good thing, but we benefited quite well from being a young company during that period not having too many fixed processes that we were so wedded to that we couldn't adjust. What we were able to do is transition very quickly to online. So meetings moved from face-to-face to video very, very quickly. That, for us, allowed us to service clients Instead of being focused, like perhaps competitors that already existed in the industry, on face-to-face meetings where, if I want to deal with a client on one side of the US and then California to New York, for example, on the same day, that's impossible.

Speaker 2:

If you're flying to meet these people On a video call, you can finish and two seconds later jump onto a call with someone in New York, which allowed us to transition or allowed me certainly to transition to servicing individuals all over the US without being there. And then if you tie in the fact that often the topic of conversation was starting out as UK assets, they've left behind and my qualifications here in the UK and the fact that I sit on the license here, ultimately that gave me some credence to look at that and then start those conversations building from there. So actually you can service clients in the US without necessarily being there. Too much COVID and video calls to perhaps thank for that, although I would argue yes, you've got to get out there more and get a little bit more face-to-face eventually with your client bank, but it's not necessary to actually start building a book to be physically residing in the US and be there on a regular basis and in theory you can do it without really going there at all.

Speaker 1:

All there we go, and I think that's what people find it hard to get their head around. And that's what I found it hard to get my head around when I was talking to hoxton because, I'll be honest with you, it sounded too good to be true. I was just thinking to myself what are you doing? It sounds really dodgy. And it wasn't until I started looking under the bonnet and sitting down with, like paul tate, for example, our global head of compliance, and talking to Chris in more detail. It was like you're doing this. You know multi-jurisdiction advice You've got. You know you're regulated in multiple jurisdictions six, seven. I think now with India right, that we can actually give advice in those areas. But you can't be sat in the UK doing that, and as long as you're qualified to do so, then you can build a book that's international. So then you can build a book that's international. So if your clients that are uk-based are moving here, there and everywhere, and a lot of them, do in oil and gas, for example.

Speaker 2:

Right well, I think that's a really important point is that the world is more global. The world, as far as I'm concerned, it shrinks year on year in terms of the availability of things, the connectivity of things. More and more individuals have assets in more than one country and that's just ramping up year on year on year. There are regular talks about the exodus from the UK in terms of people wanting to go and live elsewhere. It's pouring with rain outside here. You're not massively surprised. I believe you've just moved to. Dubai I am.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure the weather is much nicer, much nicer. The reality is more and more people are leaving, but that's not just from the uk. The world is more mobile, so this need for you know, multiple jurisdiction, advice is only becoming greater. The need for people to understand the taxes, the implications of holding those assets, because assets aren't always as movable as you as an individual. So you may have pensions you built up in the uk before you move to dubai. You can't just pick those up and take them, you can't cash out of them because you're not 55 at this stage.

Speaker 2:

Ultimately, you're in a position where that asset's going to stay behind. You're going to move to Dubai. You may then move onwards, even if you stay within Hoxton. You could move to the US, to Australia. Ultimately, you're going to pick up assets in different areas.

Speaker 2:

This is not an uncommon problem to have, but having someone that understands all those pieces of the puzzle and can bring your financial picture together holistically is really important. So not only is it useful in terms of, from my perspective, being able to go out and target these clients, but if you think about the struggles clients are having, and if you look at my typical client, for example, the struggle they have is I've got US assets. I've got a US advisor sat over here who's telling me what to do with that. I've also got a UK asset over here, but ultimately this US advisor won't even tell me what's going on. He won't talk to me about it, he won't discuss the investments, he won't talk to me about what's going on inside.

Speaker 2:

So I need to go and find a UK based advisor. Now what's going on inside? So I need to go and find a UK-based advisor. Now the UK-based advisor won't tell me anything because I'm based in the US. So all of a sudden, you have these clients. It's not just that we're going out. They have a problem, and that problem is only getting bigger and bigger the more global the world gets. So we're trying to plug that gap.

Speaker 1:

Great explanation, love that, thank you so much. Very Love that, thank you so much. Very educational and I think people listening to this right now the penny will drop exactly what that opportunity actually is and why Hock's in a position so well to do so and why it's so important really to be international, to be fee-based, but to also have your foot in the ground in the UK. Lots and lots of people from the UK but, yeah, give it some thought, giving it some thought, right, but the more digging that I'm doing, also on the international basis and people moving around in general, it's the same for the US. A lot of people are leaving the US and their eyes are set on the likes of Portugal, or they're set on France. We've been talking about that recently, the opportunity that we picked up with a brilliant introducer who moves people from the US over to France. Now, as I've dug a bit deeper into that conversation, we are again the penny clicks, penny clicks, the penny drops.

Speaker 1:

Yep, if that person's moving from the US but they're moving to Australia, we can still deal with them, correct? You know, to me that was amazing. Or if they go to Dubai, we can still deal with them. They go to South Africa, europe. We can still deal with that person. We don't have to give it up. You don't have to be holding every single qualification because there will be somebody in the business who can, and the business is regulated in that jurisdiction, which means, as an individual, you aren't losing your client relationship. So we can service that global transient client now, which we are seeing more and more and more and more of it becomes highly unique and to be feed-based, to position ourselves that way. You can now start to understand why well, I can, and hopefully everybody else who is listening why hoxton have had such growth agreed.

Speaker 2:

It's definitely had a big part of the growth. And look, I suppose the the option on qualifications as well is relatively limitless to you as an advisor. Now I'm not suggesting everyone's going to want to go and get qualified everywhere. It's not necessarily an easy thing to do. It can be a time-consuming thing to do. I'm sure everyone's aware of things like cpd, which if you're doing in multiple jurisdictions can be fairly time consuming as well. If you take myself as an example, I am qualified in Australia and Europe as well as the US and UK. If you add that on top, that does allow me to advise in Dubai where those existing qualifications will allow me. That covers South Africa as well. So if I look at where I'm positioned within Hoxton, I can advise in all of Hoxton's jurisdictions. So if I pick up a client client and they move, they don't have to change advisor. We just sit down and transfer them from one license to another. I put on a different hat and I'll start advising them based on where they are and I think, from a client perspective.

Speaker 2:

You know I deal with clients who are heading towards retirement. Often their wives are on the conversation or partners are on the conversation who are thinking about what happens if something happens to yeah, husband, wife. I don't really understand the finances as well, I'm not as involved. What happens? Who do I speak to? Well, if I'm looking after everything for you and you're on all the calls that we have, that becomes completely moot as a as a risk. You simply call matt and find out what's going on, and that doesn't matter if the assets in any one of those countries or I've moved to any one of those countries. You know I'm still able to help you, so you can then have a personal relationship which lasts 20, 30 years not last as long as your feet are physically in one country fantastic keeps you on your toes as well, or creates a more interesting role for you.

Speaker 2:

Right, absolutely and Absolutely, and I think I would stress so. We talked about the start journey, which was anything and everything. Get as much AUM in as I could, learn and cut my teeth on multiple different scenarios, because every client brings you a new little challenge, but then it's learning what you actually enjoy doing. So you know my journey has been that that I've developed towards, you know, a larger sum of assets under management. I don't now need to take on a client every day to make sure that ends meet. The reality is that puts me in a position where I can sit and decide what I enjoy doing.

Speaker 2:

What I enjoy doing is complex work for my clients. I enjoy that challenge of them moving from country to country. I enjoy the fact that we might be talking about building assets in one country for retirement in another, which again, is not an uncommon problem to have. You might be sat in the uk physically now, um, but you plan to retire in the south of france, and who'd blame you? But the reality is how you structure your assets now for life in the south of france would be very different to how you want to structure your assets for life for retirement in the uk. That complex work and working with people over the long term is what I enjoy.

Speaker 1:

And do you? Okay, that's really interesting, right? So when you, when someone is doing that and they're structuring it for the move later on down the line, how far in advance are you having these conversations with them?

Speaker 2:

I mean same with any financial planning, and I mean this just from a pure UK perspective as well. The earlier you speak to people, the better. The hardest thing to do is rewrap assets at the tail end to try and structure it tax efficiently. Not everyone knows where they're going to retire, so I appreciate that can be a challenge, but if you know what your plans are, as soon as you know what your plans are, you can start structuring things in the right direction. Now I appreciate plans are subject to change, so I'm not going to sit here and say that we don't have to adjust things and tweak things as we go. But that's the value of financial planning. As far as I'm concerned, there's two parts to it. There's the investment advice, where I'll be open and honest. Am I really any bit better at picking a mutual fund than another financial planner? Who knows? But do I have a much better understanding of the rules in the US, france, uk? Can I tailor that all together to build you a more complex, more coherent financial plan for the long run? I believe I can and I believe the earlier you come to someone for that, the more likely that plan. And same for the UK If you're sat in the UK. You plan to retire in the UK.

Speaker 2:

The earlier you put a financial plan together for that, the earlier you structure your assets as sensibly as possible, the easier it is Very difficult. You know client comes to you at 65, said I bought all these properties in my own name over the last 20 years. They're all bringing me this nice rental income. How can I do things tax efficiently? It was going to be very difficult. We might have to sell some of the properties, pay capital gains. If it's now we're talking about passing them on to your family, we've got estate taxes. We've got capital gains to consider before we can worry about the estate tax position. It becomes complex. The earlier you speak to someone, the better the plan ultimately will be, over the long run, interesting.

Speaker 1:

So I've been moving into this whole partnership vibe because I want to create this expat life. Yeah, partnering with um companies that do move people internationally. Yep, yeah, during my business development I've picked up a client actually in the UK, a consultancy company. Yep. Ex-forensic pension expert. Nice yeah. Has a relationship with a lot of very wealthy dentists Yep. One of these dentists has got 31 million in property Yep, but obviously, with the news and what's going on, it's considering their options.

Speaker 1:

Yep so is that type of person, the kind of client that you would look at and go. That's a complex case. I'd love to get stuck into something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we drill down to that and quite often those complex cases are we won't be able to fix everything there on day one. So it's it's ongoing work and that's where the work becomes interesting. You know it's. We're not going to walk in and say you've got a a slight problem here, fix it. With this job done. It's actually you look at that there's probably going to be, if you do decide you're going to move out and leave the UK based on, you know, not wanting to pay as much tax on that 31 million or whatever it looks like.

Speaker 2:

How long is it going to take to put that in place? How long is that structure you know the work, ongoing work going to last? The reality is a while and it will be a more than one part plan to get you from A to B in terms of where you are today and where you want to be. I suppose that's again positioning it. It's okay. What I need to understand as your financial planner is where you are today, so your current position, and ultimately, where you want to be. So that'll include where you do want to retire. It'll include, ultimately, how much you want for day-to-day life, how much you want set aside to pay for your daughter's wedding, how much you want set aside for family, on death and so on. So we can start to structure that plan and what your priorities are.

Speaker 2:

Some people couldn't care less about tax, which is fair enough, you know, and it's actually inheritance. Tax means nothing to me. The kids will do well. Couldn't care less if they pay 40, not a problem. What I want to do is spend every penny if possible. Show me how fine then we build the plan around that. So it's not for me to say this is what we do. It's to really understand someone, and that's where I get the joy out of it is the long-term planning aspect of understanding what you want your retirement to look like or what you want your long-term financial setup to look like, and helping you get from where you are today to that, and then watch it execute successfully year on year love it, and that is that's the exciting part about about the job, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

and that comes with experience, right, yeah, more experience you'll gain, more people you're speaking to, the more you can niche down on specific areas of financial planning that you enjoy and you can niche down on the type of clients you want to speak to. Now, whilst we're on the subject of um talking to clients with different goals and aspirations, different clients in different countries. Do they have different levels of financial education? Yes sure answer yeah.

Speaker 2:

So look, this is a really interesting one. Um, and I think um, we talked a moment ago about what I enjoy about the US and I've focused on the US. The US is far more open to investment than most other areas of the world. I think there's a far higher investment literacy over there. I think investing is seen far more as something you should be doing.

Speaker 2:

When I think of culture generally, I think UK is a savings culture. It's money in the bank. It's save for your house deposit, build that up, buy your house, pay your mortgage. These are kind of the natural financial plans that happen in the UK. When I look at the US, it's invest, and I think there's loads of reasons for that. I look at the US culture in general.

Speaker 2:

Everyone will have an investment advisor. It's it's fairly common. You have an investment advisor, you have someone you go to to discuss this. You also have the way.

Speaker 2:

For years, people have been getting paid out there. So if we, if we, if we roll back yeah, 20, 30, 40 years in the US, a big chunk of people's salary or bonuses would often come as share options. So you find clients have a large chunk of shares allocated to the companies they've worked for throughout their lives. Far more so and it's becoming more commonplace in the UK, which I think is a really good thing, but far more so than places like the UK, australia and so on. The reality is, if you're force-fed shares as part of your bonus package for years and years, you become used to investing. You become used to the ups and downs. You'll check in on those shares periodically and you'll see that they have volatility. They've been down. I've held them because I've got no choice. They vest over a three-year period, so I've held them and hope they go back up. They do.

Speaker 2:

Us equities aren't a bad thing to have held for the last 40 years. They go back up. So people are far more comfortable investing their money and keen to do it. And I also look at the way things are invested. So if I look at your default UK pension and the performance on it versus your default 401k, which is the equivalent of a company pension in the US, typically and there are obviously exceptions, but typically the growth in a 401k will often be a lot higher over the long run. Usually. Usually they're exposed somewhere close to 100% US equities in their 401ks. Again, the reality is 20, 30 years of looking at that, you see an awful lot of growth. That growth gives people comfort that over the long run, they're in the right kind of places. So when you're having conversations with people that have been in the US for a long time either born and raised there or indeed been there for a while, working there for a while their level of comfort over investing for the long term is far higher, which makes complex conversations far easier to have.

Speaker 1:

Are financial planners or investment advisors in the US held in a sort of higher regard, esteem than they are, say, to their counterparts in the UK.

Speaker 2:

I think so. I think the answer to that is yes. I don't want to speak out and that's just personal opinion, but I think they are. I think in the US, you know, an investment advisor is considered something you should have, whereas I think there's a bit more scrutiny on financial planning in the UK. Now there's elements to that as well. I think the US tends to lead global markets in a lot of ways. I think the platforms are cheaper. As I say, people have been exposed to US equities, people are more comfortable with what's going on over there. You know RDRs coming in the UK. A lot of these things are being tidied up.

Speaker 2:

I don't think it always has the best reputation. I think that's often led by, you know, products and the way things are charged for and historically, what that looks like, us is just a bit ahead. Um, and I think as we get closer and closer to the low cost environment that they have over there, which we are heading in the direction of we're, you know, if you look at the cost of products in the uk, it's come down enormously over the last 20 years, so we're heading in that direction and hopefully people will catch up. But I do think there's a culture element as well. You know. It's just that that shift from savings to investment.

Speaker 2:

I think in the us, if you've got spare cash, the culture is that should be invested. I should be doing so. I should be getting a return from this. In the uk it's I need to save my money, and the compounding effect of the two different behaviors has a really negative impact on what people in the uk end up having for their retirement. Um, I suppose you could argue that I should be going to plug that gap and there's a bigger market there. The point is, it's easier to have these conversations with people that want to invest, want to grow their money, versus people where you're trying to convince them you actually shouldn't be saving and you should be doing a bit more. Yes, you should have something set aside for a rainy day. Of course you should, but actually getting less than inflation in the bank on a huge chunk of cash is really poor financial planning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's what I've been hearing americans are more willing to take advice from financial planners. There it's almost you're a financial planner. It's like so great, you know, talk to me. They want to talk to you, as in the uk it's kind of like is that an education thing?

Speaker 1:

it's the kind of thing to myself. Is it an education thing or is it a culture thing? Is it a bad stigma attached to financial planners sometimes in the uk historically, or is it just culturally? In the uk we just just don't really want to have those conversations as much as say some. I think, bringing back to your point about giving shares in your business, yeah, I think that's. I think yeah. So from an educational perspective, you're growing up, you're working, you're hearing about it, you understand it more. Therefore you're going to be more interested in it and it helps with everything right.

Speaker 2:

So so if my dad has Microsoft shares and has done for 20 years, I'm going to know, I'm going to hear about it, I'm going to hear about the ups and downs, that unconscious learning, if you like. That's just inbuilt in America. Shares are a part of common everyday conversation. Wall Street, yeah absolutely Wall.

Speaker 2:

Street's there. So you've got that element of it and I think ultimately that does make it easier to to deal with. I also think there's a separate part of it, which is I don't think fees are the dirty word over there that they are in the uk, um, and I think I think people over there accept that their day-to-day job is something different and they want someone else to take care and manage their money and push it in the right direction without them having to do it themselves. It's far more commonplace In the UK.

Speaker 2:

The question is well, you say you can grow my money and I should structure it differently, but you're going to charge me for this. What's the cost? Yeah, there will be a charge, naturally, but the question here really is value. So is there a value to having someone else manage your money over 20 years and help you structure it correctly so that you pay less tax on drawdowns? Absolutely, there's a value, and usually that value is pretty significant.

Speaker 2:

The reality is, if you don't want to pay for it, that's fine. You can go the cheap route if you like, which is do it yourself. But yeah, wheels are a great example of where do it yourself doesn't always work, you know, and you know sometimes you get a yeah, a builder in to do your extension because you haven't got the expertise yourself. It's, ultimately, it's okay. Is it worth paying for? And I think the education piece in the uk needs to be value versus cost. I think in the uk people look at cost. In the us people look at value. Am I getting something out of this? Yeah, and is it worth paying for?

Speaker 1:

well, I can see an opportunity here at Hoxton well for advisors that have built books in the UK that might want to move out to Dubai. Yep.

Speaker 1:

And continue servicing that book, but from Dubai. Yep, and as you've alluded to and we've talked about multi-jurisdiction, you can do and I don't think advisors in the uk can really kind of get their head around the fact that you're allowed to do that. You. You can do it. You're proving it by being in the uk and advising us clients right. So there lies a huge opportunity and I think the type of advisor it would suit would be somebody who has built a book. Perhaps they want to move abroad now. You could move into Europe if you wanted to.

Speaker 1:

Because we've got licenses in Europe. You could move to Dubai, abu Dhabi, you could go South Africa. We've got the opportunity. Usa, we've got the opportunities to do it and you can keep your book and you continue to grow, but via international clients. So, for example, there's a chap who's just gone over to Dubai Now he's in his first year of being an advisor. The guy's on for 15 million AUM in his first year and he's focusing on US.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he's braver than me, because in Dubai the time zone's horrible for the US so he's up all night working, but you're quite right, it's a lifestyle choice that he's made.

Speaker 2:

He wants to be out in the sunshine there doing that. Doesn't want to be in the uk anymore. Um, yeah, go there, and the platform is there for you to do it. Had he chosen to focus on european clients, for for the fact that the time difference suited him a little bit better and he could work more of a structured dubai day, fine, the opportunity is there. And actually, as much as I do like and I will beat the drum on the us opportunity because I think it's massive and I think it's the largest one out there the reality is there are opportunities everywhere. Um, you know you could be focused purely on europe. You know we've talked about the france situation, which again is a massive one. Um, ultimately there's opportunity all over. And what? What I'm really saying here, I guess, is with the multi-jurisdictional setup, you can kind of pick your opportunity and run at it.

Speaker 1:

And you can move. So a man over in Dubai is building his book of business, but that doesn't mean he has to stay in Dubai, correct, he can move somewhere else. He could move to America, yeah. If all of a sudden he wants to be closer to the American dream, if you like, and being closer to those clients that are out there, he can do that as well.

Speaker 2:

And I think people will. I think that will end up being a trodden path for Hoxton. So I can see that being something that people either develop here, develop Dubai and gradually end up finding their way over to the US. I can see that being a well-trodden path.

Speaker 1:

And on this podcast we've got episodes that are dedicated to talking about that pathway. Um, you know, taking somebody from zero experience, uh, join hoxton, get their qualifications, do the hard work in the beginning, which is the business development, turning stones over finding clients, getting their qualifications and actually taking their going on a journey of of a financial planning career from start to finish with us. You know, at the end somebody can actually, after they've built their business, built their asset center management, perhaps built a team there, can even consider at the last stage, do I want to stay here, do I want to exit? And we can put them into a situation where we can buy that book of business from them. So what I do love that about hoxton I've been involved in this whole structuring of what we call because the pathway was originally like the trainee bit, correct, actually, I argue, the pathway is the whole thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, agreed, yeah, the pathway. What we label the pathway is that transition from business development to advisor. So once you've got your qualifications and you're stepping into a role where you're advising on your own, we call that bit the pathway. But clearly you've already done a few years of learning at that stage and clearly, after you've got that first couple of of years under your belt, there's still a lot more to do.

Speaker 1:

um, so yes, there is a far longer transition so we as a business, hoxton, are now a wealth tech business. Yep, how do you feel about?

Speaker 2:

that I feel very good about that. I think, uh, I think the guys that have done that, and chris in particular over in uh, the middle east, have done a fantastic job to to move us in that direction. And when you look at where the world is headed, it would be very, very naive to sit in the uh, sit in the old ages and do everything with a pen and pad and, um, yeah, knock up reports with a, with a fountain pen, is not going to work anymore. So clearly the world is heading in that direction and I think, particularly with what we've been able to build in a short period of time on the tech side, I think we'll have a lot of strategic advantages going forward. I think, in particular, it's that global piece again, the thing that perhaps US advisories are missing in terms of paying attention to what goes on outside the US. So it's that aggregation tool of being able to say OK, what's my overall position, including assets I've left behind in the UK, including assets I've got in France or whatever it may be, from your time spent there. That piece is an underserviced piece at the moment. So hopefully we're heading in the right direction there. And also, I think it's important for people to be able to visualize their plan. So it's all very well me sitting down with an individual and saying this is how much you've got now, this is how much we need to continue growing that by or adding to it to make sure that we can achieve what you've told me you want to achieve. Told me you want to achieve, but while I'm just telling you that, like I am on this podcast, that doesn't carry a lot of meaning. It's me saying stick some more money under management and I'll help you and I'll get paid a little bit more in the meantime. Send it across Doesn't really resonate in terms of showing you what that means for you.

Speaker 2:

The wealth flow tool that we've built, which actually allows you to plot your retirement and you can see it and you can play around with it yourself. You don't need me there to do it will allow you to look at what your retirement is going to look like based on the current numbers, and then start to play around with that and suggest okay, what if I do save more? What if I do take a bit more investment risk? What might it look like with a few extra percent over the next 15, 20 years? That's usually quite a staggering number. So over the next 15, 20 years, that's usually quite a staggering number. So it helps show people and again go back to educating them on the need for investments rather than saving.

Speaker 2:

So I think the tools are. They're useful for us and I like the tools. I think really it's client facing. The people that are gonna get value out of the tools we're building at this end are the individuals that use them. So I think that's a really cool thing for us to be doing and it's a cool place for the industry to be headed.

Speaker 1:

I think the investment in our in-house technology, specifically the Hoxton Wealth app, and that's what we're talking about here the ability to aggregate all your assets internationally properties, crypto, pensions, hargreaves, lansdowne and Cairn you can pull absolutely everything into one place and, as a client, you can sit on your sofa and you can look at all of that in one place, aggregated, and then you start talking about wealth flow.

Speaker 1:

So they can sit there and they can start to project forward and forecast, based on their retirement age and what they want to do with their lives, what that could look like and do they have enough and where does it go. They can update information there and then they can keep it up to date. If you are in the background on our system Matrix, it feeds nicely into the app as well to give them real-time updates and I think that's just so powerful. And when we had the conference a couple of weeks ago and you came over and you presented and chris talked also about one day client, you know the ability that we're working towards and we think we're not that far off creating a fingers crossed, yeah fingers crossed creating a one-day client, so if somebody wants to invest their money, they can do it through that app within one day.

Speaker 1:

That's powerful because people want that, you know, and we're creating those solutions. And again, the innovativeness of this business to me is one of growth. It's one of like we want to solve problems, and I love it's like we're not trying to solve problems in the UK, we're trying to solve problems internationally.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, which is a fun challenge because they don't always match up seamlessly. Regulations are different in every country, so the advice we give has to be slightly different and tailored or presented differently. So there are lots of challenges there. But the tech piece really, you know, and where I feel very proud of what we've been able to do there, is move it in the direction of you know, what people want in the modern world, which is visibility. So, if we're brutally honest, uk pensions in particular not the most visible assets in the world often send you a letter once a year. This is what the statement is speak to you in a year. That kind of thing. That visibility is not great and for something that's usually a fairly reasonable asset should be better Moving that online, moving that to a world where it's seen not only daily but seen in conjunction with the rest of your long term assets, or even short term assets, so that you can see your overall financial picture, and moving things to a world that's more instant.

Speaker 2:

So if we look at where the world has gone, it's visible and instant. People want to see everything that's going on. You could you? You order an uber. You want to see exactly where it is and when it's going to get there. Um, and people want instantly. I don't want it to be 20 minutes, I want it to be two, three tops, um, tops. Same with your food orders. You want to know where your bike rider is and you want to know that it's only going to take 10, 15 minutes to get to you. Taking that to the financial level, I believe, is a really important piece because actually I'm going to be brutally honest here your food order is way less important than your pension or your retirement assets or your financial future. So you should have more visibility, not less.

Speaker 2:

So trying to bring that online, trying to make it more visible and trying to show people that there is a structure to it, what you do now will affect where you are in the future, because without seeing something, it's very easy to ignore the future without knowing what your financial picture is.

Speaker 2:

And I suppose the thing I find not most irritating because I want people to still come to us at this age, I don't want to put them off the hardest part about my job is speaking to someone who is already retired, already done all the planning, and we're just trying to help them with a little bit of access here and there and tidy it up a little bit, but my job is far more limited. My hands are tied behind my back at that stage in terms of what I can achieve for them, because what we've ignored is the last 20 years and how important it is to build and structure things correctly so that you retire the way you want to. Um. Showing people that early with the kind of tools that younger people are likely to enjoy looking at and use, hopefully will mean there's a far better financial education around that retirement piece. Um, because there is an argument to say that governments won't be able to afford to help you forever. Um, so you've got to do it yourself no, I think you're absolutely spot on.

Speaker 1:

And again, how we're positioning that, you've got the great transition of wealth, wealth happening. Money is being paid, you know, passed down intergenerational people that have never had large sums of money before are all of a sudden going to have it Now. These people also haven't had the ability to be financially educated. We don't teach each other about it.

Speaker 2:

We don't teach it at school, which is mental.

Speaker 1:

Which is crazy. So we've got this app, we're creating it. It becomes a financial education tool. It becomes accessible. It's in your pocket. You can download it from the App Store. You can do that today.

Speaker 2:

It's got great reviews. Yeah, and I'd stress that, whether you use hoxton as wealth advisors or not, if you've got global assets, that's a really good tool to have. Yeah, whether you speak to me afterwards, whether we do anything else, being able to aggregate your tools and plot your retirement is a worthwhile exercise for anyone that's got some assets and wants to retire one day. As simple as that perfect.

Speaker 1:

So, again, again. It was one of. I was going through the process joining Hoxton and I was just looking at all the things that they were doing and it was like tick, tick, tick and that's a big one, that's a big one.

Speaker 1:

There's not enough people out there investing in technology, so for me it was an absolute winner. You tie that in with the opportunity in the US and I started to dig and understand that Even the opportunity when you hang on, there's opportunity everywhere and absolutely I think you have to be an innovative company to be confident, to push forward and take advantage of that.

Speaker 1:

yep, you need to be a growth mindset business and for me, the way my mind works is it's constantly going from one thing to another and connecting the dots, so for me, the playground was much bigger yeah and the role the role that I'm doing as head of creative is coming in is thinking how can I create content, add value to marketing and the business and to advisors to get this story out there further, but to connect deeply with somebody so they actually use our services, yeah, or they come and join us in our journey. Whether we want to take on some new advisors or power plans or administrators or tech team members, we want to be able to be a company that is bringing to life what it is we're doing, whether it's technology, whether it's education yeah whether it's career stories like these here on the hoxton life podcast.

Speaker 1:

It's really, really important and I love that about this company. It's innovative. So talking to you now it's exciting me. Yeah, like you know, it's like an edge for me. It's like engaged, like so many ideas are going through my head about where I can add value now yeah, no, it is exciting.

Speaker 2:

And look, I think, I think chris deserves a lot of credit for that. Um, he, he seems to always be one step ahead. He's when you bring an idea to him or you start thinking about these things, he's already thought about it and he'll show you the plan that's already in place to put it together. He, you know, he's very, very driven and ambitious and ultimately, he, he spends his time thinking about what adds value to the overall setup, whether that's client facing, whether it's internal for, you know, staff and recruitment it's constantly value being added every step of the process.

Speaker 2:

Um, even looking at the transition bringing yourself on, I don't think the idea of doing these kind of podcasts is just sleepy old IFA, if that makes sense. It's not, it's a transition. But myself and you have had conversations recently about where we think that can add value and it's enormous, yet it's not standard practice, don't get me wrong. I'd rather it stays that way. It's good for us that it's enormous, yet it's not standard practice, don't get me wrong. I'd rather it stays that way. It's good for us that it's not standard practice and everyone else doesn't think like it. But, yeah, it is exciting and I think it gives us an opportunity to push ahead.

Speaker 1:

I think the challenge with content creation is it takes time, it takes energy, it's a skill that you kind of do have to learn and not everybody is willing to put that time and effort into it. Where the return on investment can take time. Yeah, I think me coming to the table and having that experience around financial plan of life, improving concepts, is a huge value add and I think chris saw that, yeah, and recognized it, and I always had in the back of my mind I wanted to join a financial planning company or build one out, you know because to me it was like well, if you can nail recruitment right and you can nail client attraction you're going to win?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely those two pieces. If you've got the best team internally and you can find the best clients, you win. It's that simple. What's the future hold for you, mate? Um? So I suppose we'll transition this back to the the career element side of it, which is, you know, if I look, if I look at where I'm at, you know I'm obviously with hoxton um. We started six years ago. I'm thoroughly enjoying the journey we're on, um, so it's onward and up, onward and upwards.

Speaker 2:

At the moment, personally, I'm trying to transition into the private wealth side of things, so more selective in terms of the complex work and the high end work I do with clients and build that out as a separate division. So that's personally the next challenge for me, but also trying to piece together the lifestyle element of it. So you know, chris works incredibly hard. I've done six years with him. I will admit not working as hard as Chris. I don't think anyone can. But I'm also mindful of the reason I took this on in the first place, which was to get to a point where I could support my family, support my kids, and do it in a way where I also get to spend time with them and do what I want. So I'm kind of in the stage this year of trying to transition to more of a lifestyle element of it. My clients are in the US, so structure my day to suit that, rather than the standard UK business day. If I get the opportunity to travel and do things that I want to do, that's what I want to do now. I've got a bucket list. There are things I want to do. I'm approaching I'm 37 now. I've got to start thinking about turning 40 soon, so starting to think about ticking some things off the list rather than sitting in an office till 10pm every night. So you know, I've got to the point where I've got a significant chunk of assets under management. The company is obviously heading in the right direction as well, and for me it's now. It's looking at that.

Speaker 2:

Why did I become a financial planner in the first place? And it wasn't to work 12 hours a day every day, seven days a week for the rest of my life. It was to build a book that provides a residual income and then start making decisions about what I want to do and if that's go to a nativity play on a Wednesday afternoon, that's what it is, you know. And if it's take some time off in the summer to spend with the kids, that's what it is. And if it's take some time off in the summer to spend with the kids, that's what it is. So the future for me, yeah, very, very Hoxton focused still, but also trying to get to the point where I enjoy the work that we've done so far and make sure my lifestyle fits around work as much as work fits around the lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

I think you know what you're saying there is totally acceptable. You know, I think you've worked incredibly hard and there must come a point where you want to have some balance in your life, like you said, like we've got to take into consideration also that you've been working the us market, so you're working late hours. I didn't really think about that so yeah like.

Speaker 1:

I think you're not alone in that. There's a lot of financial planners that are out there that have worked incredibly hard built asset center management. They want to live the lifestyle that they want to live and I think it's um totally normal well, I think there's two parts to it.

Speaker 2:

There's the people that have already done the hard graft to get the assets under management and are probably looking for that lifestyle at this stage, and there's the people that are starting out the why are you doing it? Well, the reality is, the sooner you get to 100 million under management on fee, the sooner you can concentrate on looking after your clients. And looking after your clients at that stage can be more enjoyable. You can fly out and see them, you can play golf with them and spend a bit of time, have lunch and then go and meet another client. It becomes very different when you're not targeting finding a new client every day and so on.

Speaker 2:

So why do people do this, this job? They do it to build that end. You know, if you look at, um, yeah, the opportunity in front of you, it's not just, you know, an earning opportunity. It's not just an enjoyable job to do in terms of the rewarding side that you get with your clients, but it can put you in a position where you get some very good lifestyle choices. Um and we touched on where being able to work from wherever you want.

Speaker 1:

So, the lifestyle choice of well, if I want to go and work in Dubai tomorrow, I can and I think you know, when we look at the phases of the journey of being at Hoxton, I would say you're in phase five, which is you're building out your business. You're now looking at how can I create a more concierge type private service? Right, you're developing something there and you're building out that business. You're not at the stage right now where you want to exit the business. I'd say that was the last stage, right, the final phase.

Speaker 1:

But the thing is you've got that luxury now building that business and building it quicker. Because I want to look at you and go six years from standing start, right, 80 million. And you kind of say the second ago, it's not as good as chris, that's huge man. Like there isn't many financial planners I come across your age that have done that. That's like huge kudos on that one, by the way. But you are looking now at building something that ticks boxes A for you lifestyle-wise but also ticks boxes for you in the work arena, right, but so someone on the outside looking into this business right now they could come into that phase.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, someone on the outside looking into this business right now. They could come in at that phase. Yep, yeah, if they want to move quicker, if they're hitting a bit of a ceiling if they feel like they're not developing their business much.

Speaker 1:

They've got some good clients on board but they're not going anywhere. They can come here with their clients, plug and play into an international business where we can wrap things around them to really rev them up, to help them build it and build it. And they don't have to go anywhere because phase six they can sell their business to us and they'll get a nice buyout, yeah, from us, whether they're employed, whether they're self-employed, we're a business that can offer start to finish, yeah, and I love that. And you're at that stage that you're. And stage five you know they're building the business. I can go on, for you could go on until you're 60 years old if you wanted to yeah, agreed, I think that depends on whether you enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

So if you have, if you've got the lifestyle element to it, it can go on till 60. No problem If it feels like you're stuck somewhere where you're banging your head against the brick wall. So it's two parts to that. One is the, you know, choosing your own calendar and having some control over that. The second part of that is having some challenges to enjoy.

Speaker 2:

So if I look at what hoxton gives me that I wouldn't be able to do in the uk, it's well okay, let's say. Let's say I am getting bored of the challenge of just working with people based in the us, and 401ks and iras is fairly straightforward stuff now. And I've set myself a new challenge because I am the type of person that needs a challenge. If I feel I'm under challenged or it's too easy, I have very little interest. I need, I need something to push at. Yeah, and I think most people are built that way. I need to be headed somewhere.

Speaker 2:

So we've got all these other areas and constantly new ones coming online where you can go and challenge yourself, you can learn more, you can try and add value in another way. The multiple jurisdictions gives you a gives you a challenge that you don't get. So if you, you know, if you look at it from a pure uk perspective, where a lot of these guys will be sat that are perhaps a little bit frustrated the challenge isn't there. They're talking about the same products with the same faces on a regular basis, whereas actually there there's a global opportunity out there. Come and learn something else.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, challenge yourself. Can you break the us market? Are you more interested in australia? Do you see yourself retiring in Sydney one day, in which case would it be nice to build a bit of a book out there, like you can go and get qualified. You can start moving in that direction. You know, I'm a big believer. You take one step in the direction you ultimately want to end up, you'll start feeling better. So, actually, if it is overseas retirement or if it is a lack of job satisfaction because you don't feel you're pushing yourself and challenging yourself, take one step in that direction by learning a new jurisdiction, getting qualified somewhere else, and you'll start to enjoy it a lot more. Um, but this gives you that platform in a way that I don't think there are.

Speaker 1:

There are many like it for financial planners as I said before you know 16 years of running a recruitment business within the financial planning profession. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. I wouldn't join a financial planning company if I didn't think it was a huge opportunity. Today, I think anybody listening to this episode will understand what that opportunity actually is. Your ability to articulate your career journey here at Hoxton is educational, and that's what we need is more financial planning career education, and anybody listening to this, I think, could reach out to you. Maybe you could, absolutely. You know they might have some further questions. They can reach out to me if they want to find out a little bit more about what it's like in the role that you're in, what the options actually are hoxton, reach out, ask some questions and that's what we're all about, isn't it? It's about education. It's about helping people be the best versions of themselves they can possibly be in a supportive, collaborative environment yep that is growth mindset yeah

Speaker 2:

look, and there's a couple of things just to, I suppose, help wrap up that point one, I do think it's a very collaborative place. You know the industry as a whole often isn't. You know. People are sitting working by themselves, concentrating on themselves. There is a very collaborative environment. The top guys within our business are willing to sit down and share the way they're doing things. You saw some of that at the conference.

Speaker 2:

After that, you know, I've had multiple conversations with people both to learn from and to try and help in a way that I don't think is always there in financial planning, um, and the other thing is just going back to that, that journey. I suppose we've touched on where I'm at now and the choices that I get now as a result of lots of hard work. But it's important to understand that's hard work. I didn't get 80 million under management over six years by sitting there waiting for the phone to ring. That's not how it works. This is a career path that, if you're willing to put an awful lot of man hours in and work very hard, you can do really well, and I would argue that you then get to structure that quite well. So if I was in my early 30s now, or mid-20s, I'd be looking at it, especially if I didn't have a family life at this stage. I could put five or six big years in now, set myself up so that family stage becomes enjoyable, relaxing. I can go and concentrate on that also. You get to turn it back on.

Speaker 2:

So if I look at where I'm at now, yes, I might want to take a chunk of summer off with with my kids and try and enjoy that. Or they're at a certain age. My son is seven, for example, where you do get a lot of enjoyment. My daughter is 13. She's heading to a stage where she doesn't want her dad around. She, she thinks I'm uncool, doesn't like me um, not doesn't like me, but she she's at a stage of her life where I'm not going to get as many hours. So actually, as my son transitions to that age as well, if I want to turn it back on, you know, if I want to go and concentrate on another area, you've got this level of flexibility that you don't get in other other careers I can you know why not wind down, but I can take my foot off the gas and enjoy some time to do that family piece. But it doesn't mean I'm committing to that as a long-term business decision. It could be that actually the year after I turn it back on and actually I do increase the man hours you can slide it like a dial once you get there. I would argue that the dial has to be tuned all the way up for the first five, six, seven years to get you to where you want to be, because ultimately it only works if you're there and look.

Speaker 2:

The company itself and it's worth noting will drive and push you. Chris is where he is because he's driven and he wants everyone to succeed. He will also get frustrated looking around seeing that people not realize their potential. So he's going to push for that. But you also have to understand where that comes from. You know the type of person he is, the company that he's already built and wants to continue building. He's gonna be keen to see everyone do well and he's gonna be keen to push everyone to get the most out of themselves.

Speaker 2:

But then you have to take a step back and look at your own journey and say where am I on that path now if I'm at the very start of it? Chris is right 100% of the time and I need to be really pushing If you're at a later stage of that journey and you've made some decisions on what income looks like for you and what lifestyle looks for you and you're in a position to dial back great. Typically, though, I find that the people that do get there and push right to the top tend not to want to dial back, or, when they do, they get pretty frustrated seeing their dial back numbers, and it becomes a question of actually looking around and saying these other people look better than me now and I need to push on. So it's funny how putting yourself in a position to take your foot off the gas tends to be something that people who would take their foot off the gas or thought they might want to tend not to do so much yeah, it's interesting, you can't do.

Speaker 1:

It's like when people say, um, all of a sudden they become multi-millionaires and it's not about the money anymore yeah you know it's like yeah, but you only know that you've got that. Yes, absolutely absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you want to set yourself up for that, um, but in my experience, the people that do especially the people that can set themselves up for that quickly they've got something in them that also wants to keep going. Yeah, um, it's a funny thing that you know earnings. You tend to scale your life a little bit in that direction not always fully in that direction, but you scale your life a little bit in that direction. So the next bit and the next bit and the next bit will only push you further, which, look from a business perspective, I think should be encouraged.

Speaker 1:

Matt, thank you so much for sharing your Hoxton life today. I think anybody listening to this episode right now has got a really great insight into what it's like six years being a financial planner here at Hoxton. You aren't slowing down. There is huge opportunity here at Hoxton Wealth and we welcome anybody to come and join us and get on the bus, as Chris would say. And thank you for sharing, joe, mate, no problem Cheers Sam.