Hoxton Life

Work-Life Balance for Female Financial Advisers in Dubai: Tips and Strategies with Michaela Vandepeer & Andrianna Rawlings

• Hoxton Wealth

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We’re excited to launch a brand-new podcast series hosted by our very own Julia, Hoxton Wealth's Social Media Manager. This series is all about celebrating the incredible journeys of women in wealth and showcasing stories of success, resilience, and empowerment in Dubai.

In this episode of the Hoxton Life podcast, Julia welcomes Senior Financial Advisor Michaela and her paraplanner Andrianna to discuss their dynamic working relationship and the impact it has on their careers and clients. Michaela shares her 17-year journey in financial planning, starting at just 19 in the Middle East, while Annie reflects on her professional growth and how mentorship has transformed her confidence and skills. Together, they delve into the unique challenges and rewards of working as an all-female team in a male-dominated industry.

They also touch on their recent seminars in Australia, the importance of flexibility in the workplace, and how collaboration fosters resilience and success. Whether you're in the financial industry or looking for inspiration in mentorship and teamwork, this episode offers valuable insights into navigating careers and building meaningful professional relationships.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Michaela's journey from coordinator to senior financial advisor in the GCC.
  • How Annie transitioned into paraplanning and built her confidence.
  • The importance of resilience and mentorship in financial planning.
  • The dynamics of working as a close-knit team and maintaining balance.
  • Challenges and opportunities for women in the financial planning profession.
  • Insights into global client management and adapting to diverse markets.
  • How flexibility and adaptability are shaping the future of financial planning.

Ready to start your international financial planning career?

Hoxton Wealth is looking for ambitious individuals ready to take their careers to the next level. Whether you're interested in international financial planning, compliance, client servicing, or marketing roles within the financial sector, we offer unparalleled opportunities for growth and success.

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Curious about our career opportunities? Visit our website to explore open positions and learn more about joining the Hoxton Wealth team. Your journey in international financial planning starts here!

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Speaker 1:

We're three years in and our friendship is blossoming, as well as our team, not just Like we don't argue.

Speaker 2:

It's like lie there from Annie, because she was off last week and her mum was in town and she was replying to client emails and I had to message her on WhatsApp and say get off your emails.

Speaker 3:

You saddo.

Speaker 2:

I struggle when Annie goes on holiday. But she needs to go on holiday. We both struggle. I've always struggled with this sort of manager sort of employee hierarchy kind of thing which I just don't like, I'm really uncomfortable with and I've never really we have to do everything ourselves, like our clients rely on us.

Speaker 1:

It's not like working for a big corporation where you can go on holiday. The emails they bounce to all the different teams we only have each other.

Speaker 3:

would you say that maybe financial planning roles have changed for women over that time?

Speaker 2:

when she took maternity, her entire business book was taken from her and given to another advisor and I find that sad.

Speaker 1:

You have to be thick-skinned, because in any industry, especially in the middle east, you do have to be able to take criticism your like working relationships just seem so unique.

Speaker 3:

Obviously, there are teams that work very closely together in the office, but you guys really are friends. So, um, michaela and Annie, welcome to the Hoxton Life podcast. I'm so excited to have you guys here. Or, annie, I'm happy to have you back. Um, I know you had your own podcast episode before, but, michaela, it's great to have you on.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having us. Yeah, how are you guys doing today?

Speaker 3:

Fine, yeah, good, thank you Good. I know, obviously, annie, we've spoken about your career before, but I think it'd be good to just start with who you guys are, what you do at Hoxton Wealth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm a senior financial advisor with Hoxton. I've been with Hoxton since the business started I think a couple of months in. I've been in the industry for 17 years now, so mainly in the GCC. I've done five years in Qatar and then back here again.

Speaker 3:

Great. And Annie, annie maybe just explain how you kind of work with Michaela or how you support each other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I'm Michaela's power planner, slash client servicing, so work alongside to help with reports and dealing with clients day to day and, fact finds, meetings like that and making sure everyone is happy and we know what we're doing for the day great, amazing and I know a little bit about your story.

Speaker 3:

But, michaela, obviously you've been kind of working in this industry for a long time. You've got a really impressive career behind you.

Speaker 2:

Um, I'd love to hear about your beginnings and how you kind of got started in the uh, this profession, how you got started in financial planning yeah, I moved to the Middle East at 19, started as a coordinator, so coordinating meetings for an advisor, and then I kind of I suppose I was doing that for about four or five years and then I moved on to managing a team of coordinators and actually had no real sort of desire to be an advisor, if I'm honest.

Speaker 2:

Um, because I was early twenties and um, I think back then, I don't know, I think the industry was a bit different or maybe the world was a bit different and, um, I thought, who, uh wants to take advice from you? Know someone, you know a female in their early twenties in the Middle East you're dealing with. You know, not to generalise, but a lot of the guys back then were working in oil and gas. It was predominantly male clients. So I was kind of happy, I think, for a while. And it was Chris Ball who, I suppose, pressurised me a bit to step up, but I'm glad he did. So, yeah, I worked with him in Qatar.

Speaker 3:

He was my manager, um, and uh, yeah, kind of just haven't looked back since yeah, okay and um, when you started so obviously you were quite young would you say there was any kind of personality traits that drove you into this profession, that made you interested in financial planning?

Speaker 2:

I don't think so. I hadn't really thought that this was the career path I wanted to to go down to. To be honest, I didn't know a huge deal about it and I think I'm from a um, I'm from a background that you know from parents that um didn't have a financial uh planner, didn't need one um and uh yeah it's. It wasn't something that I wanted to get into. I think it was something that naturally I fell into. I worked with a few friends before in the UK that had moved over here. I hadn't been here before and I went to Heathrow to an open day, applied for the job and a month later was living here. So I suppose I accidentally fell into it. But um, absolutely love it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well and how did you guys come to work together? Like, how did your partnership kind of form?

Speaker 2:

I suppose Annie probably won't mind me mentioning that um, she was working with uh within another team uh before uh, for was it about six months or so? Um, but hated it. Yeah, if we're being honest, um and uh, we had a chat, I think that that week I think someone might have mentioned it and um, and I quickly learned that you know Annie's incredible um, I think, as anyone that's worked with her or close to her in the office and um, to lose her, would you know, would have been a great shame as a you know from a company perspective. So, yeah, has stayed and it's been what? Three years, yeah. So, yeah, I'm really I'm kind of glad that I managed to pinch her from someone else.

Speaker 3:

And so obviously you've mentioned that Annie's been a great addition to your team. What impact has that had on your team as a a whole? You know you guys are kind of a dynamic duo in the office. I don't think I've seen another team that kind of works like you. Um, what impact has Annie's like power planning skills and um, how does she support your team?

Speaker 2:

oh, immensely. Um, I couldn't go on holiday um without, uh, she switched my emails off the week I was getting married, um, because I um even I think in this industry when you're on holiday you kind of tap in, in and out of things, but I can trust Annie with with my entire business book and, um, yeah, great, I say I. I struggle when Annie goes on holiday, but she needs to go on holiday.

Speaker 2:

We both struggle when each other's on holiday um, so yeah, I mean day to day, even as you, as far as sort of doing my role when I'm off as well, and liaising with clients. Every single one of my clients know Annie and trust her with that.

Speaker 3:

Amazing. And, Annie, how has it impacted your career? You know, you obviously started out you weren't too sure if it was the right role for you, the right career. So how did joining Michaela's team change things for you?

Speaker 1:

I've become a lot more confident. I have a lot more self-worth, I think, for who I am every day, because Michaela instills that in me, like she's an extremely confident, resilient woman, and that for me to be able to watch that and learn from that has been a massive impact on my career. I even sitting here doing this with you today. I wouldn't have the confidence to be able to do this three years ago. I would have been very, maybe more shy, but watching how Michaela comes across to people, individuals that we work with and her clients is a a massive inspiration to me and why she's become not just like a mentor and a manager, but also my, my friend, and I think that helps our day-to-day 100 massively, yeah, like because we can rely on each other as well outside of work.

Speaker 2:

And he came to our wedding and he's coming for Christmas dinner with her partner, charlie. It's just, I think, if you don't have that, you struggle a lot, don't you? And I think I've always struggled with this sort of manager sort of employee hierarchy kind of thing, yeah, which I just don't like, I'm really uncomfortable with and I've never really. I suppose you know everyone in the team. You know who's sort of come and gone has always been sort of you know friends as as well, but, um, that really helps, doesn't it, I think?

Speaker 1:

100% day-to-day like and also to have like to know to switch off, like we both make each other switch off. Like after six o'clock in the evening we do generally stop talking about work and we get back to our social life, like we both have our families, our dogs that we're both obsessed with and those bits and pieces that really help us in the day-to-day of work as well, because we know we can understand each other. So in our this industry that we work in safely, would like having your own business book. We have to do everything ourselves, like our clients rely us.

Speaker 1:

It's not like working for a big corporation where you can go on holiday. The emails then bounce to all the different teams. We only have each other. So it's very important to have such a good friendship and understand, maybe when we're having a bad day or even a day where we can't really get our brains together and can't formulate an email and I can call and say help me. We are very good at bouncing off each other, which massively helps a day-to-day, year on year, like we're three years in and our friendship is blossoming, as well as our team, not just like we don't argue and and that, I think is an important dynamic um with each other, especially in a working relationship.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing like lie there from Annie, because she was off last week and her mum was in town and she was replying to client emails and I had to message her on whatsapp and say get off your emails.

Speaker 1:

You saddo.

Speaker 3:

It's an addiction, no, but it's good that you guys support each other like that. I feel like it is really important, especially for a long-term, you know working relationship if you want it to be sustainable. You guys support each other like that. I feel like it is really important, especially for a long-term, you know working relationship. If you want it to be sustainable, you have to have that level of understanding with each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

So, Annie, would you say there's been maybe like a piece of advice or any guidance that you've gotten from Michaela over the past three years you've been working together. That's kind of stuck with you.

Speaker 1:

One piece of advice is to be resilient and to be strong minded and willed and to stick to who you are as a person. Because Michaela always has been very honest, she's confident and very resilient, because it is difficult day to day sometimes being in the Middle East on your own from the age of 19 years old. To be able to do that, maintain friendships, relationships and maintain a really good business book has been for me something like advice wise. I've stuck to like I don't take things to heart and I'm thick-skinned because you are busy and sometimes the day-to-day can just go and you can't be sensitive. Oh, she didn't say please at the end of a sentence. So that is, I think, really important. And then guidance wise watching her have meetings with clients and watching how she presents herself at seminars and networking events. It really helps you grow um. Even how I put myself forward now, I think I've I've grown from when I moved here three and a half years ago to who I am now. Like I've grown um individually. So, yeah, definitely amazing.

Speaker 3:

I mean I can tell that Michaela's been a huge part of your kind of development here personally and professionally, like it seems like you've grown a lot since you've been in Dubai and obviously been working with Michaela. Yeah, um, michaela, when you started working with Annie, was mentorship always kind of part of the plan? Were you just looking for someone to do the job of a paraplanner or did you always have in mind, okay, I want someone who I can help grow and, you know, help develop?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I don't think I thought, um, really I needed a paraplanner and a good one, and um hadn't really considered sort of mentoring. And I think you know a couple of people that I've had in the team have sort of then gone on to progress into other roles. So I think mentorship just kind of comes naturally. I'm sure it does maybe to me, but to most people it probably does. So I wasn't looking for that in particular, but I think it's just a relationship that we have.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, kind of yeah puts it that way and yeah, I enjoy it and is there anything um that you think that Annie has like traits or um any skills that she has that you think have made her successful in this role? Is there anything you've noticed that, um, even early on that you thought, hmm, maybe she would be, you know, a really good power planner. I can see her kind of developing in this role don't't say bossy. Bossy.

Speaker 2:

She's so intelligent, she's so clever, she's one of the the the best, I suppose moments was passing her level four UK exams and she's you're from a law background, something that Annie didn't want to actually go into, but she's super clever. So there's a lot of things that sometimes I don't know and I say you know, what does this mean? Or what should we do in this situation? But I think you know, back to that sort of resilient word is that, you know, I didn't really notice that you were so shy before, because I suppose now it's just it's kind of second nature that I just think that you're really thick-skinned and resilient and I think for a lot of females that work in the industry, you have to be yeah, um, agree, otherwise you, you know you'll be upset all the time, yeah, and you won't enjoy it. And um, yeah. So I just think that, yeah, being resilient and super hardworking, to the point I have to tell her to stop.

Speaker 3:

I love that though. You guys, I think you kind of match each other really well, Like you're both very conversational, but you have that hardworking grit. I can see it in both of you. But you have that hard working grit, I can see it in both of you. You're very determined, very resilient. How has your relationship, your partnership, changed over the past few years? I know obviously you were saying that you've become a lot more resilient. You've learned a lot from Michaela Michaela you said you've even learned a lot from Annie. But how has your relationship changed, if at all?

Speaker 1:

I don't know Friendship wise yeah, it's massively helped. I think being able to have normal day-to-day conversations is very important. Like when you first start working together, you're still very much learning. It could be in any friendship relationship. Working together, I think you're learning and we've both learned about each other. Are maybe our tics, maybe things that we the way we like things to be done. Especially when Michaela's presenting or having client meetings, I'm always prepped, like she's prepped and ready, and I know how she likes things doing, and I know that we like to have a meeting before the meeting to ensure we're both on the same page. So, learning our day-to-day routines, being we're both extremely organised, love a spreadsheet, I think things like that has really helped us to get I don't know to a better level. I suppose, like she doesn't need to always ask me for things and vice versa, like we do just trust in each other.

Speaker 2:

Trust is a massive thing actually. Actually, we've always been super organized, so I don't think any of that has evolved. It's always just been a really high standard of like being organized, having like excel and mondays in our our, you know crm system internally. Um. So I think from a work level, nothing's really changed too much. It it's just it's been brilliant, but I suppose just on a personal level. And I think we get comments sometimes in the office that really nice ones actually that you girls get on so well and you know it's really nice to see and you know building that relationship. But it's kind of just been consistent, hasn't it? I wouldn't say there's been a really big shift or change over the last three years.

Speaker 3:

Just a natural progression really. Yeah, that's great and um could you share a moment where maybe working together kind of made all that difference? Um say, if you like, overcame a challenge or any milestones.

Speaker 2:

You kind of hit together that you maybe couldn't have done without the other person we've just come back from a trip to Australia, so we held four seminars in four cities, so that was the first. For Hoxton as well, actually I think it's not the first seminar, but the first sort of big cluster of seminars that they've done. So for me I mean pre-COVID, I was traveling every week so I was never really home Posts I think you get a bit lazy sometimes and you rely on Teams and Zoom, and actually sometimes it's a bit more efficient rather than being on a plane, but actually it's nice to go and see clients face to face, of course, around the world. So that was brilliant and could I have done it on my own? Probably, but it would have been rubbish and lonely, I couldn't have. I've done it on my own, probably, but it would have been rubbish and lonely, I couldn't have.

Speaker 2:

So we went to Singapore and then we done Australia, so we done Sydney, melbourne, brisbane and Perth and back. So we were away for two and a half weeks and I think that was a really big milestone because I spoke at the events. I'm not a public speaker.

Speaker 2:

I don't enjoy it, so for me personally that was, uh, probably something I overcame, um, and Annie checked everyone in and spoke to every single person that attended, which for you, I think, was it's not something you know, it's not you don't do that today it's not a day-to-day thing and I think it was, um, it's a long time to be away from our family and I think, sometimes, you think, oh, sometimes people may think that traveling is quite a luxury and you know, we stayed at lovely places, didn't we, and done lovely things, um, but we were doing our nine till five, as well as going on client lunches, dinners, doing evening seminars, so, um, I'm working evenings to try and match with the UK. With the time zone yeah it was busy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, living out of a suitcase and you know, calling room service does get um a little bit boring after a while, but um, I'd say that was quite a big milestone, wasn't?

Speaker 1:

it massive. Yeah, it was an amazing experience, really great. So glad that we added it to like our, what we've done as like a team, yeah because not many teams have actually gone and done that together.

Speaker 1:

So we were like a little the dynamic duo, as you said, yeah, and relying on each other. Like for me, I've never done anything like that, so I did miss home maybe a little, but having Michaela, it like feels like home, like you know. Sit and watch movies together and had nice dinners together, it does definitely helped like I would struggle to to have done two weeks in Australia where it's quite far removed from the world, like especially even the UK.

Speaker 1:

Um, I couldn't have done that on my own, so grateful for for her amazing likewise and um, so working as an all-female team.

Speaker 3:

Obviously, women um in any workplace, but especially in in financial planning, where there aren't so many women working in this profession. Obviously, you have unique experiences, some good, some bad. What would you say is unique about your experience? Have you had any unique experiences working as women in this profession, and does it compare or does it differ from working in other regions, maybe that you've worked in or you've heard about?

Speaker 2:

I've worked in, I've done five years in Qatar, um, I guess a little less liberal than the UAE, um, I can't think of a specific change I can. I went actually to um, to a mall after after work in a skirt suit and was refused entry to the mall. It was below my knee but I think there being I didn't know many females that worked, so a lot of my friends were housewives. So it was a little bit different there and difficult, whereas my friends here work in fashion and film and, um, some in construction. So it's, I think it's different everywhere and I think, as the years go by, I think you know there's certainly a lot more. You know women in in business here, um, but I don't know if you've seen a shift in the last three years. Certainly within our office, I think there's a huge amount more females.

Speaker 1:

There's lots of females now that we know. I notice when I come into the office which is that would be the biggest change is seeing more women, maybe wanting to work differently, like compared to maybe 17 years ago. It was a very different time, yeah, but now I suppose it's different and more women want to go into work, maybe.

Speaker 3:

Yeah and would you say that maybe financial planning roles have changed for women over that time? I mean, does the power planner role look the same as it did when you started out 17 years ago?

Speaker 2:

I don't think anything's changed. I just think maybe people's attitude towards it has changed and it's maybe a bit more accessible. I think now, um, so I don't think you know it's it's not a male-only role, um, it is quite a male-dominated industry. I think we all know that. Um, but I don't think, I don't know what the shift's been um. Maybe it's social media, so maybe it's sort of you know, seeing a seeing a lot more females that are in the financial industry, online, sort of filter down, I suppose.

Speaker 3:

But there hasn't been a significant sort of change in the workplace, I don't think Just more visible, I guess, to the general public More women wanting to maybe oh, she's doing it, I can do that too.

Speaker 1:

It's a good career choice, especially where, like, maybe it can be more flexible sometimes in working hours and bits and pieces like that, especially like with with what we do, with having, where you've worked so hard all those years to have your business book you, you can be a little bit more flexible to suit your clients as well, which helps yeah, absolutely, and I think there's a big need for female advisors in the industry.

Speaker 2:

I think, you know men and women do prefer sometimes to deal with a female. Whether that be, you know, I don't know, because we might be more empathetic or listen, I don't know. And there are certainly, you know, I've dealt with men that will not deal with a female, you know, and that's fine too.

Speaker 3:

You know I don't want to deal with people like that. Yeah, um, but there's definitely, there's definitely a huge need. Yeah, yeah, 100 percent um. So, annie, obviously mentorship and like development are a big part of um Hoxton Wealth and the training program here. How would you say that working with Michaela's helped support your development? Um, you know, personally and professionally. I know you said kind of the skills that you've learned from her. Is there any other examples that you can give that you think you've learned while you've been working with Michaela?

Speaker 1:

Michaela encourages me to stay like on top of being educated, stay on top of like learning. The finance changes every week, doesn't it? The rules, so making sure I stay up to date with like rules and guidelines and so being able to get have the opportunity to be able to study not just in my own time like also during my my working day as well, because she knows that I might do better in the morning sometimes. So take an hour in the morning, especially when I'm near to my exam day. Being given that opportunity to upskill myself and educate myself is is really important and something that you make sure I do. Like I'm doing my series 65 at the moment. Michaela encourages me to make sure that I take time to do that. Um, she knows when I've got like study time in, like she knows not. She won't sit and buzz me constantly because she knows it's my time to sit and do that because it's beneficial to us as a team as well. Amazing.

Speaker 3:

I mean, clearly, michaela has been there through a lot of your milestones, yeah, and obviously, Michaela, you're about to go through a big change of yourself, you know. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you, how are you kind of preparing for this new chapter? You're about to have a baby. How is your team changing? Are you shifting more responsibility onto Annie? I mean, what does this transition kind of look like for you?

Speaker 2:

It's exciting but actually quite nerve wracking as well. I like control and you know I've built a book and you know I have, you know, a responsibility to my clients as well. But I have 100% trust in Annie, of clients as well. But, um, but I have, you know, 100% trust in Annie. We have Jane as well, who's our administrator, who's brilliant um, to help with a lot of the tasks.

Speaker 2:

Um, so it's, yeah, I mean I will probably go to four to six weeks of completely being off, which is actually nice because I've done a solid 20 plus years of work with no time off between jobs, and then I'll be back a couple of couple of days a week for the next six weeks and then back again full-time. So I don't, I don't think, I don't think I need to worry at all really, and I have, you know, great support from management team at Hoxton too and we have a great relationship um, so you know we, we don't really need to panic or worry too much about that. It's quite nice for me to to, I suppose, work out what I'm doing with management as well, rather than, these are the rules, you know, because there are certain set sort of maternity um rules place, you know, as a country. But actually, you know, the guys have been really accommodating and brilliant, so I've been able to sort of, you know, work out what's best for us as a team and, yeah, I don't think it will be a huge challenge.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and are there any things that you're doing to kind of prepare in terms of work and family? Obviously, this is going to be a new change and I know that maternity policies aren't really the same here as they are in, say, the UK, you know. Is there anything you've done to kind of prepare for your new change, your new life with work and family?

Speaker 2:

We tend to review clients every quarter. Some people don't really want to catch up that often anyway, probably sick of hearing from us. So we are actually at the moment going through a phase of reviewing every single client. So it's a busy time, and then again in the new year of February, just before I head off to maternity. So when I'm back that will be when the next sort of client review is ready.

Speaker 2:

That being said, obviously clients, you know, don't hold out three months to speak to us. So if anything, if they need anything, they have Annie and, as I said, we've got our senior management team that I've worked with you know some of those people for, you know, over a decade as well, and our friends and yeah, have offered to sort of step in if anything's needed. So I think we've got all bases covered. I'm lucky I've got some help here at home as well, so I can come back into work quite quickly. But I speak to friends in the UK. You know maternity ranges, doesn't it? Maternity leave, you know, around the world, and some people are off for six months a year. But I don't think I could. I'm not sure what I'd do, apart from being a mum, of course.

Speaker 1:

You've always watched your mum work as well, though, as well, yeah, so you're very used to that Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So I just think you it's, it's kind of natural, I think, to you know, to get back into work as soon as I can, but still enjoy, obviously, you know, the first sort of four to six weeks or so, um, but yeah, the the. You know I did watch a podcast actually recently of someone in a similar position. Um, she was UK based and when she took maternity her entire business book was taken from her and given to a, I don't know, a client services team or to another advisor and I find that sad. You know she had built I can't remember how many years it was, but she'd built that and she wasn't off for long, but that's something you know. And she wasn't off for long, but that's something you know. That was a.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't say it was a worry of mine because I don't think that would ever happen at Hoxton, but I think it's. You know, certainly something that I spoke to Chris and everyone about and you know they said that you know they'll be as hands on or off as I'd need, which is brilliant. They said that you know they'll be as hands-on or off as I'd need, which is brilliant. So I've managed to sort of with Annie and with Jane is just sort of work out what I'm, you know, what I'm having off when I'm coming back and it's, you know, kind of like your own business, isn't it really, in a sense, exactly, you can't be off for too long, of course, because you know you need to get back to work straight away.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, I thought that was quite brutal to hear and I thought, oh gosh, should I have any time off? But no, I've got an incredible support network from Hoxton and from Annie.

Speaker 1:

You've also set standards as well. Like you've taught me for three years of what you expect, how to speak to clients, how to to handle certain situations, and I think that's really as well. Like nice for you to know that you kept. Like you do trust me to do these things day to day, even with you here. Like you don't need to get involved in every task because you know that it will get done between me and Jane, and I think that's important. Like yeah, although you say that you're you'd like control, she's very good at delegating as well and saying no, this is a good task for you to learn to do, for you to develop. So, if I am even on holiday and somebody needs a task, a client contacts us for support. Michaela knows that I can help to sort it. Plus, with the relationships that we have in the office with everyone, you're never going to be left to your own devices.

Speaker 1:

You have so much support in the office yeah no one's going to say, no, sorry, that's not my book, we're not going to help you, like people are always willing to help.

Speaker 3:

100 I think it's also good that both of you are kind of equally invested in your business. Like you said, this is kind of like your own business. You work as a team very closely on this client book, so you're both um, you know, quite determined. You're both really, um, focused on making sure that your clients have the, you know your clients have the attention that they need. Yeah, but at the same time, uh, you're able to give each other that balance. Yeah, so, and we're prepared as well.

Speaker 2:

Like yeah, I think it's a conversation we probably had early on. I think in the first sort of few weeks or you know, first few months actually, that you know that, that months actually, that you know that that's this has always been my vision, and got married and wanted to start a family and, um, yeah, it's something that you have to be open and honest, you know, in talking about it's different for guys you know, women are really good at talking about life plans, aren't we like?

Speaker 1:

we're good at saying I want children, I want to get married, but for guys things don't change, they might take a week or two off yeah yeah, um, so it's, you know it's okay for them.

Speaker 3:

I want to be the nanny yeah yeah, it does look different for men and women, I think, um, but I think that what's good is that you've allowed each other that balance, especially here in Dubai. You know, the work culture is so different to um in the UK. I mean, I can attest to this myself. Um, I'm not a financial planner, but the work culture coming here was very different to what it looked like when I was working in the UK. Yeah, is there anything that you do to create that balance in your life? You know, making sure that you have that time out for yourselves? Um, you know as well as each other yeah, we switch off.

Speaker 1:

we're very good at switching off. We don't email each other at 10 o'clock at night, like we do have a group chat that we both make sure we mute during our holidays, and then we have a personal, yeah, and then we have a personal.

Speaker 2:

So we separate, we have a work chat and our personal chat, and in the evenings we'll talk personally.

Speaker 1:

And on the weekends weekends when I go around for Christmas day we're not going to be chatting about work, like we have so much more to talk about, which is so nice, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I agree, and I think we, we we're both up early and we're taking the dogs out, and I think the earlier you get up the better. You know you start the day and, um, I think you know I've it's been known that I've sometimes work, you know, perhaps eight o'clock at night. I don't do a lot of that now, and neither do you, and I think you know if you can kind of work that full day, then you know to switch off. I don't really know what I do to switch off.

Speaker 1:

Really, we work in Australia as well, so we are early birds, we like our evenings with our families, but then also in the mornings I go and work at Michaela's, sometimes in the week, on a Thursday?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, on a Thursday.

Speaker 1:

And we'll work out together. It's a great way of like winding down and actually separating work and play as well, yeah 100%.

Speaker 3:

Yeah that's true. Yeah, your like working relationships just seem so unique. Like I, obviously there are teams that work very closely together in the office, but I think this is something special where you guys have kind of transgressed past the. You know the mentor, the leader, and you know the student relationship. You guys really are friends. You know coming over for Christmas and that extra support, even being able to message each other on weekends. I think it does make a difference in the way that you work, message each other, each other on weekends. I think it does make a difference in the way that you work with each other inside the office as well oh, yeah, huge, huge respect for you and and Michaela's family as well.

Speaker 1:

Like not just like, I get on with everyone. Her husband, stepson, your mum obsessed like, and like you as well, like my partner, like they all get on so well, so like when we was in Australia, the boys went off for the day together.

Speaker 2:

They did, yeah, they went to a car museum. Yeah, a lot more fun than they did. But um but it is lovely, it is really nice yeah that's great.

Speaker 3:

say, if a young woman wanted to get into paraplaning um and she was interested in the profession but she wasn't too sure if she'd be able to succeed, or she wasn't too sure how to go about it, what advice would you give her to kind of get into it and what would you say they would need to be able to succeed in this kind of role?

Speaker 1:

I think it's really important to study and upskill yourself, first of all, and then, secondly, you have to be thick skinned, because in any industry, especially in the Middle East, you do have to be thick-skinned, because in any industry, especially in the Middle East, you do have to be able to take criticism, and I think that is one thing. I'm really good at taking criticism, like I do not mind people saying if I'm not doing something right. I want you to tell me that, because no one is perfect, and I think to be able to accept that you're not perfect and that you can learn is really really important, especially in finance, where it is forever changing. Rules change, regulations change. You might have a bad day with with clients because they might be having a bad day.

Speaker 1:

So to be able to really get over that is so it is so important and I I think that would be the biggest advice. I don't think you need to have necessarily done it before, because I think you can learn as long as you're ready to listen. You have to be able to listen and be moldable. I think as well not think that, as I say, not be perfect and you'll succeed really, really well. Yeah and?

Speaker 3:

um, equally, michaela, like in this industry. Obviously you've worked in this profession for a long, uh, period of time, you know almost two decades. Um, how do you see the financial planning profession changing over the next 10 years? Do you see there being a lot of evolution, a lot of change for females?

Speaker 2:

or in general, uh, for females and in general. Yeah, I think social media, I think, is a huge one. Certainly 17 years ago, 17 years ago, 2008, facebook was just, I think, a thing Wow, actually show my age there. But I mean, there's so many podcasts, there's so many TikTok videos and Instagram videos, so I think a lot of things are going viral and online, so I think the online space is probably a huge one. So I think there's a huge amount of change that can come from that.

Speaker 2:

There's also a huge amount of, you know, female only podcasts on financial planning that are available that I always listen to and I just think they're brilliant. They're so relatable as well. As well, as you know, there's there's tons of podcasts and interviews and things that you can follow online, but I think that's probably where most financial advice is heading. With the app that we have at Hoxton as well, it's it's just seems to be much more tech focused. I think now we were working from, you know, paper fact find um back in 2008,. It wasn't really, you know, there was no real sort of. It was LinkedIn, um and Facebook, but there weren't really a huge amount of sort of. You know, there wasn't an ability to network or have an online presence too much, yeah, so interesting.

Speaker 3:

And then, um, what's one thing maybe for both of you, um, that you'd like to see improve in the financial planning profession over the next 10 years. Is there anything that you'd like to see changed? Um again, for women and in general?

Speaker 1:

I think with Hoxton they offer really good flexibility and I think I would like to see that more in other maybe businesses and other in, not just in the financial industry but in the industries in general is better flexibility. They are planning on having a family and there aren't nerves of when you come back, like you said with the lady on the podcast, like coming back and having your book taken. A woman can do her job just as well with a child or without a child, like. That's why Michaela maybe not isn't so worried because there is no difference to me. Nothing is going to change, bar I get a little baby to play with, you know.

Speaker 1:

And I think being able to offer women to say, like I can do my job between 9 and 12, I'm going to have the afternoon maybe and maybe I'll come back in the evening, like I don't think that there needs to be such strict structures to people's days and I think that would be amazing to see more. And I think with what happened a few years ago with Covid and stuff, I think it did come in slowly but it is slowly being taken away again. I think and you're seeing more you have to be in nine till five or you have to be in the office between this time and although that's very good when you're up and coming and training. But when you're someone like Michaela, where you've done it for 19 years and you've worked hard and you've proved that you can do it, that flexibility is it should just be offered, it should just be there and it should be trusted to to women or men as well yeah, 100.

Speaker 3:

I think also you know that flexibility lends itself to more opportunities, like hoxton wealth. Obviously we're working, uh, in different time zones with different clients around the world. So being able to be flexible it's not just good for people's personal lives in the office, but obviously it allows you to be able to speak to clients, it allows you to maybe upskill yourself on other jurisdictions. So you know there's more to it than just Do a podcast in a day, things like that.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. And, Michaela, what's one thing that maybe you would change? You know, looking forward in the financial planning profession.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't say my answer would be too different to Annie's. Really, I think flexibility is key. I think if you're experienced, I think if you're, you know new to the field, I mean you can always learn right, you know, I think you have to come in and be around other people. But also if you know there are some people in the office that will work a different shift pattern. So you know we have an office in the US, so people will come in in the afternoon and work through to the evening or the early hours. Good for them, not for me, but yeah. So I think flexibility is key.

Speaker 2:

I think, you know I can't really pinpoint anything to change at Hoxton because I think you know we're really diverse and flexible. But as an industry, I think as a whole, we're training, we're bringing on a lot of new recruits and sort of positioning them in different areas of the business recruits and sort of positioning them in different, you know, different areas of the business and I think I think what we're doing is, you know, proven to be really good so far.

Speaker 3:

Amazing. That was great guys. Thank you so much, Thank you. It was really nice to see you guys. You know talking about your team and I see you guys around the office and you both work really hard. So I think it was nice to to share those insights and you know a bit about yourselves with the people. I think they'll find it really valuable, so thanks a lot.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad. Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1:

Thank you enjoyed it yeah same, thank you, thank you.