Hoxton Life

ADHD, Adversity, and Ambition: Jonathon Jay’s Path to Becoming a Chartered Financial Planner

• Hoxton Wealth

Share episode

In this deeply personal episode of Hoxton Life, Sam Oakes sits down with Jonathon Jay, Managing Director of Hoxton Wealth UK, to explore a story that spans continents, hardship, neurodiversity and career reinvention.

From a luxury childhood in Saudi Arabia to starting over in Liverpool with just £70, Jonathon’s journey is one of grit, honesty and purpose. He opens up about how his father’s sudden business loss shaped his understanding of financial stability, and how living with ADHD led him to a career that finally aligned with his strengths and values.

Now leading a rapidly growing team at Hoxton Wealth UK, Jonathon shares how he is building a culture for intrapreneurs: advisers who want more freedom, more opportunity and more meaning without having to go it alone.

If you are a financial adviser looking for growth, a deeper connection to your work, or just a real story about leadership done differently, this one is for you.

Ready to start your international financial planning career?

Hoxton Wealth is looking for ambitious individuals ready to take their careers to the next level. Whether you're interested in international financial planning, compliance, client servicing, or marketing roles within the financial sector, we offer unparalleled opportunities for growth and success.

Don’t miss a beat! Subscribe to our YouTube channel to watch full podcast episodes featuring insights from those that work for Hoxton and some of our special guests and partners. Stay connected by following us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and X for more exclusive content.

Curious about our career opportunities? Visit our website to explore open positions and learn more about joining the Hoxton Wealth team. Your journey in international financial planning starts here!

For sponsorships, partnerships, or media inquiries, reach out to us

Speaker 1:

Where do you think having ADHD helps you in your career? Because you are managing director of Hoxton Wealth. It's not held you back. No, it's challenging.

Speaker 2:

And.

Speaker 1:

I massively can understand how it is challenging, not being neurotypical. Yeah, it's really really challenging. It's overwhelming, right. Yeah, but how does it benefit you in the job role that you actually do?

Speaker 2:

I think I'm very lucky that I found a career in something that I genuinely enjoy. So I clearly get a shot of dopamine every time that I like. When I wake up in the morning, I'm excited about what I do. Um, what I've never been good at is being in businesses that aren't focused on growth. Where I feel like I plateau, where I feel like my trajectory is not going in the right direction, I struggle with it big time. Um, but I guess I've. It's a. It's a. It's a profession that you can continuously learn. I've got every qualification I could possibly get. I'm chartered, certified, chartered wealth manager. You know I've. That's always been a good way for me to continuously feel like I'm progressing and developing. Um, but yeah, I think I'm lucky that I found something that does give me that dopamine hit, to be honest, and it was completely accidental.

Speaker 1:

Jonathan, I'm back Liverpool this time. Thanks for having me Welcome.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to God's country God's country.

Speaker 1:

Why is it God's country?

Speaker 2:

Well, it's Liverpool, the heart of the universe, the centre of the universe, where all good things come from.

Speaker 1:

So I'm down in the centre and last night was a big game. I was expecting more people out and about because obviously Liverpool won 2-0 against man City. You're a big Liverpool fan.

Speaker 2:

Massive Used to go to every home and away game here.

Speaker 1:

Yep, tell us a little bit about Liverpool then.

Speaker 2:

Why is that home? When did that happen? Um, so I actually have spent more time in my life living outside of liverpool. I've actually spent more time out in my life living outside the uk. Um, so my mum and dad are scousers, born and bred my mum's from walton, my dad's from a place called west arby, um, but my dad, when I was born, was already living in saudi arabia and, uh, my mum, seven months after I was born, took me over there to to go and live with my dad. So I moved over to saudi very, very young and then we lived in the Middle East until I was 18. And long story, maybe we'll come on to it, but we left the Middle East when I was 18. I'm 34 now. So, yeah, still more than half my life living, living over living abroad. But Liverpool's home, liverpool's where all my family's from, that's, that's definitely where I'm, that's where my roots are.

Speaker 1:

Uh, in this, see right, let's go back then, because you said we'll come back to that. So what happened?

Speaker 2:

so your dad left the middle east yeah, um, try and make a long story as short as possible, but um, so I was in saudi arabia. My dad was ex-air force. Um, he saved up lots of tax re-earnings when we lived in saudi and he ended up up setting up his own business in Dubai. When I was I must have been 10. My dad shipped me off to boarding school while my mum and dad moved to Dubai. My dad set up a couple of businesses in Dubai. He had a real estate slash, property management business, project management business and a furniture factory, steel factory. And, um, unfortunately, when I was 18, his business partner uh, trained the bank accounts and off he went and uh, we lost everything wow.

Speaker 1:

So what was that like? Being in dubai and having you having his bank accounts drained? You were obviously a lot younger, but is your dad reflected upon that experience?

Speaker 2:

yes, um, the actually the time it happened. My dad came back to the uk for a week for my granddad's funeral, right, uh, this person drained the bank accounts off. He went and, um, my dad had a pretty nasty surprise when he came back to dubai so how did he deal with that?

Speaker 1:

how did he sort of go, how did he get his money back or anything?

Speaker 2:

or not? No, no. So my dad came back to the UK with something silly like 70 quid in his pocket and that's all we had as a family, and that was. He landed in Heathrow and it was just about enough to get a coach home to Liverpool.

Speaker 1:

Jesus, that must have been quite impactful, then. Is that why you became a financial planner?

Speaker 2:

Do you know what? I've actually reflected on this and why I think I love it? And I think yes. I don't think I realized it initially, but I was in my final year of school. A-levels Did not get the grades I needed. My plan, leaving school, was to go and work with my dad and go and, and that was kind of me set. Obviously, that didn't work out. It was also the financial crisis, so I left school at a time where it was very difficult to get a job and my parents had just come back. My dad obviously couldn't get a job at the time. It was really really tough, really tough. We lived with my grandparent well, my nan for a year or two.

Speaker 1:

So what was that like growing up in the middle east then and then coming back to liverpool was it a bit of a shock? Yeah um.

Speaker 2:

So look, growing up in the middle east like very idyllic life, um, obviously we got. Me and my sister went to boarding school for senior school, but growing up in saudi, we lived on compounds and lived in communities of other expat kids. We had an amazing life. We traveled a lot uh, traveled everywhere east of um of the middle east effectively, and did lots of traveling because geographically is a great place to travel from. Um, so, yeah, I had a lot of amazing experiences as a youngster.

Speaker 2:

Um, and then coming back to Liverpool, living with my nan no money from genuinely living a very five-star type lifestyle when we were in Dubai, we lived in a nice big villa. It was a big change. What was Dubai like back then? Not what it is now change. What was dubai like by then? Uh, not what it is now. Um, so where? So my parents lived in a place called barsha and we could see, uh, the burj khalifa. Now there was no towers around the burj khalifa downtown. Um, my mom literally watched them put floor by floor up in the burj khalifa. When, when I first went to dubai, uh was in 2000 and um, the whole marina didn't exist. Jbr didn't exist. It was a very, very different place. In fact, the house we lived in in barshire was just completely, completely surrounded by desert. It's not now, but barshire's where our head office is right, correct, yeah barshire heights.

Speaker 1:

So not too far away from there about 10 minutes not too far away from there. It's pretty interesting. Then you're now working for an international financial planner, og Ogston Wealth, that offices in the Middle East. Has that shaped your view of financial planning? Is it being part of an international business where if you heard the term some people might think international financial planner with an office in Dubai that sounds dodgy has experience in the Middle East and growing up there? Has that sort of shaped your opinion of international financial planning?

Speaker 2:

Well, I started my career in wealth management in Dubai Right. So I was in retail banking, worked for Santander for three, four years, met my wife now wife. She was my girlfriend at the time and she'd accepted a job working for Emirates cabin crew my girlfriend at the time and she'd accepted a job working for emirates cabin crew. Um, and obviously, having lived there when I was younger, my dad had a few contacts over there, set me up with a few interviews and I ended up working for an international firm. So that was the catalyst for me in wealth management, um, and it was uh, yeah, it was interesting. Look, there's been a massive evolution of finance in financial services. Uh, firms like hoxton with fee-based advice and all that just didn't exist, uh, many years ago. Um, but yeah, it's, it's interesting.

Speaker 2:

I was speaking to my wife about this over the weekend, about manifestation and all that stuff, because I feel very much at home, um, in the middle east. Uh, weirdly, if I land in dubai it doesn't feel like I'm in a foreign country. You know that feeling of discomfort if you go to a foreign place doesn't feel like that and obviously, having grown up there, now working in wealth management, work leading uk business for an international firm. It's weird how life works and all kind of feels like it comes together in a way what was I want to take you back to.

Speaker 1:

So I want to know a little bit more about jj. I mean, you're you're head of the uk. You're head of hoxton wealth uk. You know you're managing directly and taking a business from 13 people to 50 people within nine months. It's incredible. We're growing through acquisitions. We're growing through taking on new financial planners. Yeah, the momentum for me doesn't feel like it's slowing down, um, but I'd love to know what you know. We know we came from the middle east, right, you know, let's go to your education. Let's go to what you were like in school. Did you go to university? Did you study finance? What type of education did you have to get to the level that you are now?

Speaker 2:

I was very lucky. I had a very good education. Um, I went to international what did I call it international British school for my junior school in Saudi Because my dad was starting a business in Dubai. It didn't make sense. It was actually cheaper for him to send me home to boarding school because my dad's ex-military I went to a military school in Kent and it was cheaper to do that and fly home for every holiday than it was to go to school in Dubai. So that was a private school as well for my education. So I was educated privately all the way through. But I was intelligent, clever, managed to get through GCSEs without really picking books up. I thought I could do the same for A-levels. That didn't quite work out. Now I understand myself a little bit better because I got diagnosed with ADHD a couple of years ago. But I, yeah, loved school, loved team sports, loved all that. But academically it wasn't amazing.

Speaker 1:

Do you think ADHD had something to do with that One?

Speaker 2:

can trip. When did you? You were diagnosed with ADHD academically. Wasn't amazing, do you think?

Speaker 1:

adhd had something to do with that. One hundred. When? When did you you were diagnosed with adhd correct? How and when did that happen and why?

Speaker 2:

um, it's my son, joshua, just turned five. Uh, he is autistic, non-verbal, and a couple of years ago, when we were figuring out why, uh, reading a lot about autism and adhd, uh, a lot of the things that I was reading about seemed to personally make sense for me. What like? Um, so there's two types of adhd. Uh, you've got inattentive type and hyperactive type. So I'm not outwardly hyperactive, but my brain is extremely hyperactive.

Speaker 2:

I can never switch off and the best way to describe it is if you walk into curry's and you've got 30 tvs on the wall and they've all got something different on. It's kind of how my brain works, like flicks from one thing to the other. Um, but yeah, it's it, it's. I really struggle to switch off. My brain never stops. Sleep's not amazing and that sort of stuff. But understanding ADHD and how it works, so it's a dopamine deficiency disorder and my brain consistently looks for etiquette of dopamine, which is why I think business and being a part of a growth-focused business, I think that's what triggers a lot of dopamine in me I can relate.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I was recently diagnosed with adhd, something which I always knew that I had, that I always buried, and I think a big part of why I buried it was because of the stigma attached to it. More so these days I have was like everyone's got adhd these days and it's like, well, probably because people now are being diagnosed.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, because people are misdiagnosed or not like yeah or not diagnosed and I look back over my life and I look back at my schooling. Um, I look just so many things of how I am. It's like the way you described it is walking into curries with 30 different tvs on.

Speaker 2:

That's what it's like in my brain well, I had to go through an exercise when I was getting diagnosed of looking back through all my old school reports. Yeah and um could have tried pretty much every school report from reception was very capable, very intelligent, could do better with concentration, could focus better, yeah, so it's pretty consistent, exactly the same as mine.

Speaker 1:

Um, where do you think having adhd helps you in your career? Because you are managing director of oxygen, well, it's not held you back. No, it's challenging and I massively can understand how it is challenging. Not being neurotypical yeah, really, really challenging. Um, it's overwhelming, right, yeah, but how does it benefit you in the job role that you actually do?

Speaker 2:

I think I'm very lucky that I found a career in something that I genuinely enjoy, so I clearly get a shot of dopamine every time that I like. When I wake up in the morning, I'm excited about what I do. What I've never been good at is being in businesses that aren't focused on growth. Where I feel like I plateau, where I feel like my trajectory is not going in the right direction, I struggle with it big time. Um, but I guess I've. It's a. It's a. It's a profession that you can continuously learn. I've got every qualification I could possibly get. I'm a chartered, certified, chartered wealth manager. You know that's always been a good way for me to continuously feel like I'm progressing and developing. But, yeah, I think I'm lucky that I found something that does give me that dopamine hit, to be honest, and it was completely accidental as well.

Speaker 1:

Do you think it's the business itself as a whole? That is like a sandpit that allows you to come in and play and they're not holding you back.

Speaker 2:

Yes, chris doesn't micromanage me. I think I can One of the things that I feel I can do and I don't know if this is like an element of creativity with ADHD, because apparently people with ADHD are more creative. I'm not a particularly creative person artistically, but I can visualize what I want the business to look like in a few years and I can articulate that and I can you know clearly. I did articulate that and I can you know clearly. I did articulate that to Chris and Chris bought into it and we were both aligned in terms of what that vision should be for the UK business. And I know and I can visualize the steps that we need to take and the things we need to do between now and that end goal to get to where I want to get to. So maybe that's all all encompassing, really, with adhd maybe. How did you find?

Speaker 1:

working in more corporate, established structures. I mean hoxton has grown rapidly in six years. I mean it is a huge success story, you know, not to mention the whole international side of it, wealth tech side of it. It's a. It's a huge, great story and for me it was super exciting. Again, dopamine addict perhaps. I looked at it and thought, wow, this is something I can get stuck into. When I started talking to individuals within the business, it was very clear that they were all very much a thinker like me as well, and chris was leading in that space, being sam, just push forward, push, push, push, push forward. Um, but in comparison to the experiences you've had of working in more established corporate financial planning companies, how does it compare?

Speaker 2:

not, not in day, not in day. So I was really happy, loved the places I worked before, loved my colleagues. I had a really great time working in those places. As I was going through that development journey of getting qualified, cutting my teeth, understanding how to be a financial planner all of those things I was good planner. All of those things I was good um. What I realized is, um, as I was going through that development journey, I was getting those constant hits of like you're doing well, you're progressing, you're developing, you're in, like you're putting yourself in a better place constantly.

Speaker 2:

As I got through that and I came out and I was charted and I started to look after clients. I was pretty good at signing up new business. I was pretty good at signing up new clients. That didn't give me the same hit as I thought it would. Growing a client bank wasn't enough for me, which was apparent pretty early on. So then I went through a bit of a what do I do here? Because I can't continue to just do this forever and by this I mean just look after a group of clients Felt like there was something bigger I could achieve or try and do.

Speaker 2:

One of the frustrations for me was looking out at the financial planning landscape and seeing that there's a really good example here and there's a really good example there of a way you can do it and not being able to do it because I was in a big corporate. Very difficult for things to change. I couldn't influence that change because in a big corporate, you're a very small fish in a very big pond. So I wanted to have an influence in some way. So I stepped away and set up my own business an amazing learning experience, the hardest thing I've ever done ever. Um, because I've always worked with high network clients. I've always worked in a very low volume, high value space. So I didn't sign up a client for about six months and then did very well for the 12 months after. But yeah, I now know exactly what my space is, which is trying to grow something meaningful that has a wider impact.

Speaker 1:

So my why is.

Speaker 2:

I want to extend my reach and influence with lifestyle financial planning to as many people as possible and I do that by being a part of a scaling business, so helping lots of clients by also helping lots of financial planners be in a business that I would have loved to join 10 years ago, um, and allow them to kind of grow and flourish in a growing business.

Speaker 1:

So you had that taste of being an entrepreneur? Yes, and you stopped, and now you're employed within a business, so you're what I like to call an intrapreneur. Yeah Right, describe to me why that entrepreneur environment within financial planning right now is hot.

Speaker 2:

I think we go through a really um interesting period, particularly in uk financial planning. Um, there's a huge amount of it's a hugely fragmented market. You've got lots and lots of people doing their own thing. You've got lots of different businesses at different sizes doing it, with different operating models, different ways of looking after clients, different views on how to look after clients, and then you've got consolidators that are bringing a lot of that together. What bringing businesses together? Not necessarily bringing best practice together. I think we should, for me, the us look after as many clients in the most efficient way possible with the best approach to deliver great outcomes and obviously make us commercially successful.

Speaker 1:

From an entrepreneur perspective. If someone is thinking about getting on the Hoxton bus, chris said to me just get on the Hoxton bus and we'll grow together. I think what we have here within the business is a uniqueness that the person at the who's leading the business is growth minded, wants to push forward. You've joined the business to run the uk and you have the same mindset. So in a structure of a business, if you had somebody that was constantly saying no to you, that would bother you, wouldn't it correct? Because saying no to you, that would bother you, wouldn't it Correct? Because you want to push forward, because that's how you're wired.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, how I'm wired, yeah. So look, my dad was entrepreneurial. He stepped away from employment, he stepped away from guaranteed tax-free earnings in Saudi Arabia to go and start up something from scratch in Dubai. So I've grown up around someone that does not believe in personal limitation. My dad was born into a council house in West Abbey, with aunties and uncles and nans and granddads all living under the same roof and sharing a bed with his brother and his auntie. For years, when he was young, he's gone on to achieve really good things. He hadn't taken away from him, unfortunately, but um, I've, just I. I don't believe in limitation. The only limits that apply to people are those they place on themselves. Um, I'm not a particularly special individual, but I work hard and I believe that I can achieve things, and I think that's it all comes down to mindset.

Speaker 1:

So, when it comes to the culture of the business and the ecosystem that you're building here in the UK, you're growth-minded, the business is growth-minded. Therefore, there must be a certain type of person or a certain type of financial planner. If we talk specifically about financial planners right now, that would fit the model, or you would like to join the business? Right? Let's be quite specific. It's handy to be specific. What type of financial planner, first off, have you seen joining the business that has adopted to the growth mindset structure that we have here?

Speaker 2:

I don't think we're looking for people to adopt the growth mindset. We want people that have the growth mindset. So when I'm recruiting people, I want to see that they personally want to grow and develop. They want to do more qualifications, they want to improve themselves. I want them to want to progress. Whether that's an administrator who wants to become the best administrator in the world, or an administrator that wants to become a power planner and an advisor or just a power planner, there's a career in administration. There's a career in financial advice. Everyone has their own lanes, but I want everyone to want to. Um, you can tell when you meet someone whether they're excited by or intimidated by, and you want those that are excited by Grugs because they see the personal opportunities that come from Grugs.

Speaker 1:

Have you got some example of any planners that have joined the business, that have ticked those boxes and are starting to see success and growth within their careers by being in the entrepreneur culture of Hoxton Wealth, uk? Yeah multiple notable.

Speaker 2:

Teresa has come with her own client bank. She comes with her own ability to be able to grow her own client bank beyond what it already is. But for someone like Teresa, I don't need to make her focus more on growth from a client-backed perspective. What I want to help Teresa with is how to personally grow and go outside of her comfort zone. Sit on a podcast, which she's never done in a long and successful career. She's running our UK farming event that we're doing later this week. She hasn't done something like that before, but she's more than capable of doing that. So I like to help people um, get past and, like push people outside of their comfort zones. Um, because comfort zone isn't about, uh, doing something you're not capable of. It's doing something you haven't done before so you can grow and develop um.

Speaker 2:

And then we've got other advisors, like safras. He's joined us in Birmingham, outstanding mentality, and he's super excited about the fact that he's joining a growing business right at the early stages of it. He's going to be taking on the clients from our acquisitions and helping us grow and he's out there exploring new relationships. So we just encourage it. We don't hold anyone back, we just encourage it. We don't hold anyone back. Look, people need to focus on delivering good outcomes and focus on client service, but we just don't hold any limitation here about what you can achieve. Look the fact that we're talking to advisors that join us with their own client banks are saying we want our target. Our target for them and our ambition for them is for them to get 100 million under management. That's our ambition for them. If they match that ambition, then we can achieve really good things.

Speaker 1:

What would somebody stand to gain by achieving that personally?

Speaker 2:

Oh well, if someone grows their own personal book. There's different ways that we help people with activity, so we will as talked to Chris about it today we want to help advisors stay as active as possible. We will look at things like lead generation campaigns and marketing campaigns in the podcast and other ways that we can create a funnel of inquiries into our advisors, which they will continue to be remunerated on. If they personally grow and develop a significant chunk of that client bank, they have a future buyout incentive on it so they can create their own personal legacy by growing and developing their own client bank.

Speaker 1:

So they can be employed within Hoxton Wealth but have a buyout as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And that's the reason why I put that to Chris is because there's a lot of advisors that are employed and like the security of being employed. They don't want to go and set up as a self-employed advisor, but they feel like they have to.

Speaker 2:

I've spoken to a number of advisors that have done that over the last few years. They're probably a little bit why I went and did it, but they've gone to set up on their own because they feel like they're just building value for shareholders or someone else or owners of a business that. But they're the ones that are driving the growth and they're the ones that are driving the inquiries in, so they should benefit from that in the future we should never put people off going off and having a go themselves, because sometimes you've got to scratch that itch financial planning firm.

Speaker 2:

They can look after their own clients, they can manage their own diary, they can work the hours that they want to work. They could dabble in marketing. They can dabble in setting up a website. They like the idea of compliance, or they can just outsource compliance. Anyway, some people like that, which is cool. That's absolutely fine. But a lot of advisors feel like they have to do it, so that I'm a big believer in avoiding doing something because you have to, um, and if I can create a solution that stops people from doing something because they have to, and can find a solution that um, aligns with them, still ticks the boxes and, uh, still helps them do the things that they want to do and achieve in their career without having to sacrifice or do things they don't necessarily want to do.

Speaker 1:

I'm a firm believer if you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk. In a short space of time that you've been here, what success have you seen so far? What success have you brought to the table within the nine-month period that you've been here in the UK?

Speaker 2:

Look, I'm not going to take all the credit for sure. Why we've been successful over the last nine months is the people that we brought in. We brought a lot of people in. We had a team of 14. Next month there'll be a team of 50. We've more than trebled the team size. We've now got offices in three different cities in the country St Albans, birmingham and Liverpool so we're building an established presence across the country.

Speaker 2:

The key thing that's helped us achieve is having people with the right mindset. With any business, there's always challenges, particularly as you're growing, because you're taking on new clients. You're learning what those new clients are like. You're dealing with different sellers of businesses as you're doing the acquisitions. You're dealing with new advisors that come in that have got different client types that we might've been used to before. Everyone gets stuck in and everyone gets on with it and because we have this collective growth mindset, everyone's benefiting from the growth. You know we're rolling out growth chairs for those that are in the business so that everyone can benefit from the growth in the business. Everyone feels like they should get stuck in and you know um stick their elbows out and get involved from being here.

Speaker 1:

It's a unique business. One we are multi-jurisdiction okay, we are international. Two we're a wealth tech company. We're investing quite heavily in our app and our technology. Do you think it's a USP that's worth thinking about? If you're a financial planner and you're not at Hoxton, should you be thinking about technology? Should you be thinking about international clients? Is it a USP? Is it a good selling point? Without question.

Speaker 2:

Without question. You know we've got internationally people are more internationally mobile now than they've ever been. So the international part we've got plenty of advisors that have got clients that move overseas. So Stuart, for example, um works with footballers. Footballers do move country.

Speaker 2:

Um, you could do an amazing job of looking after someone and building financial plans and dealing with their financial affairs and then they move country and you can't look after them anymore because they live in a different country is outrageous. You've got a really strong relationship of relationship of trust that you can um, that you can help someone with their financial affairs and they can trust you with their financial future. The fact that they move country shouldn't get in the way of you continuing to be able to look after them. So that's one part, and if you are not embracing technology as a business, you are going to be left behind.

Speaker 2:

You have to be able to look after clients efficiently and effectively and you need tools that add value to clients. So our app allows clients to track their net worth from the palm of their hand. They can see everything in one place. They can link all of their bank accounts, mortgages, credit cards, investment accounts everything in one place. I think that's essential now. If you went to sign up to a new bank and they didn't have an app that you could do mobile banking through, would you sign up to them?

Speaker 2:

yes exactly, and I just think that that's the way that the world is moving um. Unfortunately, in wealth management, we're a pretty archaic industry profession, um, and I believe that those companies that embrace technology and invest in technology are the ones that are going to be the front runners.

Speaker 1:

I want to go back to your little boy, joshua. So he's non-verbal Correct, he's autistic. Has that impacted you and your ability to do your job in any way?

Speaker 2:

Yes, you have to be incredibly patient as a parent anyway, but you have to be even more patient when you've got a child that can't communicate with you and you can't communicate with them properly. Look, we're getting there. We're getting somewhere with the communication. We're getting there, we're getting somewhere with the communication. And we've been through really challenging times, me and my wife together, trying to figure all of this out. And when you realize that we don't have it the hardest either, there are plenty of people out there that have got kids who are ill and going through horrendous things. So have some perspective. But what we've learned in terms of what really hard times are about and, uh, going through challenging times and the communication piece and helping him through his, his journey, waking up another I've having a hard day at work doesn't feel as hard for sure what I love about that is that you know you are managing it and you are continuing to provide such a huge dedication and service to the business that you're in.

Speaker 1:

Is that a culture thing, or is that just a personal thing, and are we looking for that type of individual that is gonna really step up to the mark? Let's give people a feel just for the culture here, because from the outside, looking in, it's, it is like. You know chris is being called, you know a 1980s sales person and you know this idea that we work every hour under the sun and we demand absolutely everything from everybody. What is the culture like? You're a hard worker, right. You love it as well. You get up and you enjoy it and you, like you say you go to bed probably thinking about what's next and you wake up in the morning and think about what am I up to today? I'm the same, right. It can be exhausting at times, without a shadow of a doubt. Are we expecting that from the people that come and join us as a business in the UK or not?

Speaker 2:

Well, let's just dispel a couple of myths. First, chris is not a heartless, soulless leader in the business. Chris is not a heartless, soulless leader in the business. Chris is very aware of the challenges I've had with Joshua, which have been extremely difficult recently with schooling and stuff like that, and he's been incredibly supportive of me stepping away from the office to go to certain appointments or just being there to chat things through.

Speaker 2:

He's been incredibly supportive. But, in terms of culture, been incredibly supportive. But, um, in terms of culture, what I expect from people is for people to do their utmost, to work as hard as possible, but I'm not everyone's got their limits as to what they're willing to sacrifice. I can't expect everyone to sacrifice as much as me. I'm a managing director in the business I'm leading the. I'm personally willing to make a lot of sacrifice.

Speaker 2:

I spend time away from my family, I spend nights away during the week, I travel a lot, but that's not going to be the same for everyone in the business. That would be completely unreasonable. But what we do expect is everyone to be, when they're in work, to be completely focused, and I'm very outcomes focused. Not really, I'm not really interested in how much time someone's sat typing away at their desk. I'm really interested in what they're delivering for the business, for themselves as well. Like, if you want personal success, you need to think about the collective as well, and that's why we've so we've committed. Our remuneration structures are based around like the collective efforts and things like that, so everyone benefits from it.

Speaker 1:

Um, but yeah, I don't necessarily believe that everyone should be willing to sacrifice as much as me, um, but you know, we are, um, we've structured everything so that people benefit from the collective, so that people want to, people have skin in the game and they want to contribute to that collective I think what we have to think about as well is there are plenty of people that are sitting in companies where they have that drive and ambition and growth mindset and it's almost considered a negative, or people are not presenting a pathway to delivering a better life for yourself, whether that be through your earnings or your learnings or your ambition to maybe become a manager or whatever.

Speaker 1:

It might well be right, it can often stifle somebody's creativity ambition. It can often stifle somebody's creativity ambition and those types of people. When I think about it, they know who they are and they're probably listening right now and they're sitting there thinking I just want to be somewhere where my ideas are listened to, that I can push the board and I'm encouraged to. I'm not told to whoa, whoa, steady on, you know, you know, slow down. Are those the type of people we're after? Do you think they are the type of people that we should be talking to?

Speaker 2:

yeah, people who are. If you're a person currently in an environment where you feel like you're slightly held back or you're not encouraged or limitation is being placed on you, um, it was really interesting. So someone, um, I still speak to quite regularly now that might listen to this actually used to tell me at a bigger business that I was at that I should be patient in terms of my own growth and development and roles in the business, because if you're asking me to be patient, you're asking me to align my personal ambitions for myself with what the business has in mind for me. At some point, you have to decide what's best for you.

Speaker 1:

And if you're in a business that is placing limits on you and you believe you can achieve more, that's the sort of person we're after. I remember when you came on my podcast four years ago and you talked about that. You talked about the fact that, on and off the record, that you were feeling like you were being held back and at the time you were power planning and one of the conversations we had, especially back then when the topic was coming to the forefront about career development because of the distinct lack of new financial planners coming in. It was kind of big news and everyone's been banging the drum since. That was why I set the financial life podcast up and I remember that well.

Speaker 2:

I think I'd not long become an advisor at that stage. That's it, you, yeah you become an advisor.

Speaker 1:

But you were. You were sharing with our audience how to step up from like a power planner role into a financial planner, because a lot of the power planners were kind of like mushing, you know, peaking shit and keeping in the dark. Yeah, you know, there wasn't any clear-cut career development plans that would take somebody from a power planner I was definitely held.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I had to battle through, yeah, people not willing to progress me at the rate I wanted to personally progress. Yeah, and I did, and I managed to progress to becoming a financial advisor. I really had to grab the bull by the horns and that's what I encourage everyone to do is look, um. What I want to make clear is you can't just progress because you want to. Yeah, you have to show why you're worth progressing. So I did that. I didn't sit and moan and bitch about it. No, I made sure that I made my way into client meetings. By the time I became an advisor, I sat in at over 100 client meetings. I'd contributed to meetings, I'd led meetings, I'd led annual reviews with clients like I'd. I'd done all of that, um, before I was allowed to be become an advisor. But if I hadn't done, I would have continued to be. The can would have continued to be kicked down the road yeah, you did about over.

Speaker 1:

You did over 100 client meetings, didn't you, and got yourself in front of it and that advice was just fantastic advice.

Speaker 1:

And then from that meeting I used to tell that to power planners. I said, go to your financial planner and negotiate a career framework that gets you in front of clients. Just say, can I deliver part of it, can I sit in it? Because as soon as you get into that environment, as soon as you put yourself forward in that way, you will start to grow as a power planner and you will start to develop more skills. And then your calendar chair goes up because I used to say I was running a recruitment business at the time and I would say, if you can come to me and tell me you sit in client meetings and you deliver part of that client meeting, that's going to open up the opportunity for somebody looking at you as a trainee financial planner. So you orchestrated that within a culture which didn't actually have it as part of the clear-cut for career framework, even though they were a well-established, long-formed, you know business for sure, and I didn't ever take my eye off the fact that I needed to be a really good power planner as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so some people will focus on I need to get more client meetings. But if you leave the power planning stuff and do a terrible job with that and you're not focused enough on continuously doing a good job as well as that extracurricular activity, something gives and basically you need to be fully focused, fully engaged, fully committed to every aspect of what you do to be able to progress.

Speaker 1:

We're a business with the average age I think it's 31 years old. We are as financial planners. It's a young you know, the average age in the UK being 55 years old. We are a young business, we are growing and we're looking for anybody of any age really to come across, but we are really, really suited to the next generation of ambitious financial planner. Now what we do over in Dubai is we have the trainee wealth manager route and obviously I see it day in and day out because that's where I'm based. What I love about that trainee wealth manager route is that it's the beginning of the journey and we take them probably to the hardest part. You've got people in there that were playing golf at 18 years old and are now sat at a desk in Dubai calling through client leads, turning stones over, asking questions, making nearly 100 calls a day through the leads that we generate to be able to articulate why the financial planning that they've clicked on a link for is required and to then get them in front of the financial planner.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a very bold move for a business to do. That is to teach people straight away that business development, in whatever form, is um the foundations, as chris would say the prospecting is the foundations of a successful career within financial planning and I don't see any companies really doing that or any companies really encouraging it, and I think it's it's madness. So that was a major box ticket for me when I saw it and then when I I talked in depth to those individuals that are sitting in those teams. They are so hard working right and six, nine, twelve months they're banging their head against the wall, thinking why am I doing this? And then all of a sudden they break the back of it and they're through and they are then developing, obviously, um, ongoing fees. They're working with financial planners as well, because once they've started getting clients going through the mix, then they get the opportunity to then sit with the advisor and hear how that appointment went. So they start getting feedback and learning. And I think when you spend such a huge amount of time actually developing those clients and making those phone calls, you, you nurture it and you want it to be a success and I just love that part of what we're doing for the next generation.

Speaker 1:

So when you're somebody and like, let's say, you're a recruitment consultant and you don't want to work in recruitment anymore, you want to work for work, for a profession where you can actually build long-term wealth and eventually possibly build your own client bank and sell it and have a capital event. There's not many careers that are like that, that have a clear cut um blueprint to do that. We call that the pathway right. So that pathway is taking somebody from no experience all the way up to actually building a practice and as they go on that journey it takes time, you know. It's not doesn't happen overnight. But the thing that I love about it is anybody can do it if they've got the right mindset to do it. Because we have a proven pathway and ability to take you through your qualifications and to get you doing all the fundamental basics in the right way and then not a rushed methodology as well. So we've got people in there that sat in that trainee wealth manager role for five years before they even went through. And when you've gone through that stage there, it's important also that you do actually do the administration and you do do the power planning, because you can't just step from being, say, a trainee wealth manager, where you're picking up the telephone and speaking to people and thinking that you can become a financial planner when you haven't fully understood the process and that's why we break it down into these little phases.

Speaker 1:

So kind of this part here is just I want to emphasize the fact that we are a growing company. Yes, we're looking for financial planners that are out there, that might well be established, already have their own client books and are looking for an environment that's going to nurture and encourage them to push forward, because that's what we're about. But we also want to bring on the next generation of positive mindset, growth-orientated individuals that want to build a financial planning career, and we so desperately need it. This is what the Hoxton Life is all about. It's about sharing. It's what the Hoxton Life community is all about.

Speaker 1:

In the UK. You want to bring on individuals that want to become financial planners, that aren't there yet, so we'll call them trainee financial planners. I want to end on this right now, because what are we doing to support those types of individuals? Because a lot of people are kind of feeling it's difficult. It's difficult to get in as a financial planner. So what are we doing here and how do we encourage those people to push forward as financial planners In the UK? This is yeah, sure.

Speaker 2:

So we have the added benefit of being a growth-focused business. So we are growing, which gives opportunity for people to personally grow and develop in the business as we grow. I think that's why people stagnate or people find it difficult in businesses that aren't growing. Because it is different in the uk we're highly regulated, highly complex environments of financial planning. Um, so we've got. It will probably replicate more of my journey, um, which was to be a power planner, be a really good power planner, get technically competent, get meeting exposure and then go on to uh what we feel comfortable, that someone is comfortable in front of clients and knows how to go out and build relationships.

Speaker 2:

Then we let them free okay yeah, then we leave them to look after guys. We can then put them into positions where one of the hardest things is just growing from scratch. Some people feel comfortable with it, most people actually. It's not the best way to learn. The best way to learn is actually to grow and develop existing client relationships. So we are acquiring businesses. We can have advisors look after those first, whilst they grow their own client bank alongside it and then hopefully graduate out of that servicing role into more of a growth-focused role.

Speaker 2:

We've got power planners in the business now, administrators who want to become advisors. At some stage. They will become power planners first and do a couple of years as a power planner before they become a trainee financial planner. But it will be phasing out of being a power planner before they become a trainee financial planner, but it will be phasing out of being a power plan. So once I believe someone is technically very sound and competent as a power planner, has the technical competency they they need, then we can start to bring them into meetings. They'll work alongside stewart, theresa, other advisors in the business, me sometimes, um, to get that meeting exposure and understand how to look after clients and and actually manage relationships.

Speaker 2:

Uh, because it's how you, how you actually deal with clients. Uh, all clients are different. Clients don't come gift wrapped, you know they're. They're all different, uh, personality types. You have to know how to deal with those. Um, and then once someone has enough meeting exposure and is comfortable leading those meetings, so it starts off with you're just observing, then you lead on elements of the meeting. So the way I did it was, um, I don't know, lifetime allowance calculations or part of the conversation I would lead, and then you get to the point where you're leading the meeting. Then you're ready and then you can become an advisor. So that will be our pathway. So you develop through the administration paraplanning advisor. Who knows what the future holds? I believe that that's the way to do it in the UK, because it's difficult to get technically competent without spending a period of time as a power planner seeing advice through, understanding how advice works, being able to really. You want power planners to sit and challenge advisors. Why have you done this? Would you not do this? That's the point.

Speaker 1:

I want to see people so, although we've got this entrepreneurial type um pathway where financial planners who are established and go out and win clients because they're used to doing it maybe they're really good with professional introduces and then we create an ecosystem where they can come in and be supported to grow even further so they didn't have to have that pressure of running their own business and all that comes with it. We're also acquiring businesses right. We've had some huge success acquiring business across the uk. I had tom madison on the podcast. You know we not slowing down. I introduced a really good business quite recently actually and that seems to be progressing quite well.

Speaker 1:

So acquisition is certainly a big part of our growth plans here within the UK. So again, if you're thinking about coming on board and maybe you're not a financial planner right now, but in the future you want to be then that allows us, doesn't it? To be able to start teeing up clients with those trainee financial planners and we can kind of give them a little bit, give them a little bit, give them a little bit. So it's not like from day one, it's like right now you're a power planner, now you're a trainee financial planner. Go out and smash the telephones and make a lot of appointments. Um, there's a natural progressive step doing that because we are acquiring businesses that way, and it's the same with financial planners. There's really good quality financial planners out there, right, they don't. Maybe they're not business developers, but maybe they're bloody good at nurturing relationships well, we've got a.

Speaker 2:

We've got an advisor joining us soon in liverpool who is exceptionally good at the business development part, personally grew their client bank they're actually young. They sold it to that client bank to another business, um, and they're really excited about joining us and being involved in a team where they can learn. Actually, they didn't get a lot of exposure to high value clients and high net worth and the more technical, complex stuff and you know working in a slightly different space and being able to learn how to how to do that, because it's very different to work with lower value clients to higher value clients because their complexity is different and the way you communicate is different and you know there's different requirements. So, yeah, different people come from different backgrounds and hopefully we can accommodate that growth and development.

Speaker 1:

Love it. Huge success so far since you've been here. It doesn't seem like it's slowing down, so what are we going to expect over the next year then, jonathan?

Speaker 2:

I think over the next 12 months we'll see the team double in size again. It'd be interesting to see if we have any more locations for UK. I think that might come depending on what opportunities we get. But I'm really keen to just continue doing what we're doing growing by acquisition, bringing on more advisors that can help us grow, and continue to be focused on that lifestyle piece so that in the sort of three, four, five years time we are the number one lifestyle financial planning firm at scale.

Speaker 1:

And independent, always independent, with access to international. Yes, exactly how unique is that?

Speaker 2:

Very there's no one else like it Exactly, and that's why we're here.

Speaker 1:

We're here to build the number one independent international financial planning business Correct.

Speaker 2:

Love it.

Speaker 1:

JJ, thank you so much for your time today. Give us an overview. Sounds like it's been some amazing work that's been going on in the UK. I know it from the inside, obviously, but it's fantastic to be able to share that with everybody else. So, thank you so much. No, thank you, cheers.