Hoxton Life

Dubai Tax Loopholes: Busted by a Chartered Accountant - with Jeri Williams

• Hoxton Wealth

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Welcome to the podcast from Hoxton Wealth - honest conversations on life, finance, and building wealth across borders.

What really happens when you move your business to Dubai?

This week on Hoxton Life, Chris Ball sits down with chartered accountant and entrepreneur Jeri Williams (Smooth Accounting) to separate fact from fiction.

They cover:

  • The biggest tax myths people fall for
  • Why you can't just ‘say’ you run your business from Dubai
  • The five-year rule, HMRC scrutiny, and split-year residency traps
  • Real-world success stories and mistakes to avoid

Jeri shares her own experience, as well as practical advice for those genuinely considering relocating their business, life, or family to Dubai.

If you’re planning a move or need help with international tax or financial planning, speak to us at Hoxton Wealth. We’ll connect you with trusted experts and guide you through it.

📚 Jeri’s book Moving to Dubai is coming soon - follow her on LinkedIn or watch for it on Amazon.

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Speaker 1:

People are saving hundreds of thousands of pounds, sometimes millions of pounds a tack, and just winging it Like for the sake of you know, spending a very, very small amount of money and getting peace of mind.

Speaker 2:

Geri Williams is a chartered accountant with 20 years of experience. Geri started her own practice in 2016 from her garage and now manages an international accounting group Smooth Accounting UK and Dubai.

Speaker 1:

We get these conversations on a daily basis where we have to explain that that's not how a tax system works right. If it were that easy, nobody would pay tax in the UK right?

Speaker 2:

Well, obviously a lot of people are really curious about moving to Dubai, but what are the biggest myths or misunderstandings they need to watch out for in terms of tax?

Speaker 1:

It's such a massive thing to kind of move your business, move yourself, move your family to another country. You know, if you're prepared to take all of that risk, at least get the right tax advice.

Speaker 2:

So welcome today to the Hoxton Life podcast, and we've got a very special guest with me today, jerry. So Jerry Williams is a chartered accountant with 20 years of experience and an entrepreneurial powerhouse, who swapped rainy England for the sunny sands of Dubai and now is back in rainy England again. Jerry started our own practice in 2016 from her garage and now manages an international accounting group, smooth Accounting UK and Dubai, which is staff and clients both in the UK and the UAE, much obviously like the clients that we manage globally for Hoxton. Geri specializes in UK and UAE tax advice and has a new book coming soon titled Moving to Dubai. So thanks very much, jerry, for joining us. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you here. So you know, I'm assuming you probably get this a lot. Well, I know you do get this a lot, but obviously a lot of people are really curious about moving to Dubai. But what are the biggest myths or misunderstandings they need to watch out for in terms of tax?

Speaker 1:

I think the main one we come across is people that want to benefit from Dubai's low rates of tax and, you know, no income tax, really low corporate tax but aren't actually prepared to relocate here properly yeah so, so we get it all the time, people saying, oh you know, but I know someone that's done it and you know, or I'm sick of paying so much tax in the UK, so I'm going to set up a business in Dubai and then I'll recharge some of it to Dubai, and we get these conversations on a daily basis. We have to explain that.

Speaker 1:

That's not how a tax system works right If it on a daily basis, where I would explain that that's not how a tax system works, right? If it were that easy, nobody would pay tax in the UK, right? It's not that easy. Um, it's actually quite hard to escape the UK tax system you know, they intentionally make it hard.

Speaker 1:

Uh, because I mean, how many people do you know that come to Dubai? All the time, everyone who speaks he's like, oh, let's go to Dubai. You know, if it was easy just to come here every so often, everyone would do that. So I think that's. The biggest misconception is that you need to control and manage and run a business from the uae if you want the uae tax rates yeah, it's tough as well, wasn't it?

Speaker 2:

I said actually proving that, and I mean, have you ever had to, have you ever had to defend cases with hmrc to prove that exact point, and what kind of steps, realistically, can you see people take?

Speaker 1:

So no touch wood. We have not had to defend any yet, but we're very, you know, we're chartered accountants. We're super careful with our clients. So even if we were to end up in a situation where we had a tax inspection like that, we'd be fine and be able to defend it, no problem. But basically, our clients run, they make the strategic decisions from the UAE.

Speaker 1:

The problem is when people think, well, I go to Dubai twice a year, so I'll just say that I make the important decisions, but kind of forget the fact that they're running the business every single day, on their phones, on their emails, physically in person, having meetings. Their offices in the uk, the staff are in the uk. Like they forget all these things. I think importantly, you know your base of operations needs to be here. Um, staff, clients, you know the commercial aspect of what you're doing needs to be here, but also the directors and the ultimate owners need to physically be here. And that I mean you can obviously prove that with travel. You know. You know your uh, visas and yeah and your travel tickets and all that kind of stuff but yeah, it's um, it's not as easy as people think, is it?

Speaker 2:

and I see it quite a lot with clients who are like you know, I'm gonna'm going to sell my business and I'm just going to move to Dubai. Yeah, you know, and it's well, it's not actually. It doesn't actually quite work like that.

Speaker 1:

No, it doesn't. And that's the thing like. Even if you sell a business, you need to be gone for five years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, to escape the in kind of financial planning as well, that if it sounds too good to be true, it is so. Like you know, even me I've got a UAE business which has UAE clients only it has UAE staff. I am here in the UAE a lot. You know I'm back and forth all the time and my uae business still pays uk corporate tax because I live in the uk. Yeah, so, despite the fact that I'm here a lot and, like I say, all my operations are here, it's not enough and that's what I try to explain to people. Like, if I'm not doing it you know I'm a child accountant if there was a way, I would be doing it, but there isn't a legal way to do it. Therefore, I'm declaring all my UAE profits in the UK and paying, sadly, uk corporate tax on those. You know, it's just the way it is.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's really the key, isn't it Is making sure that you get good advice before you start running into this, because a lot of people try and DIY it. A lot of people go, my mate said, and actually without consulting someone who actually knows, you end up in all kinds of problems later on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. You know we say to people wherever you get it, get proper advice. It's such a massive thing to kind of move your business, move yourself, move your family to another country. You know, if you're prepared to take all of that risk, at least get the right tax advice. Because another thing is people will get it wrong in terms of like how long they can go back to the UK for and just assume I can go back for 90 days. But they don't understand that it might not be 90 and if it is 90 it might have some other restrictions around it. And you know, get it wrong by one day and you're going to pay UK tax on your worldwide income and you've moved to another country, like that's. That's how kind of impactful making the wrong decision is.

Speaker 2:

So definitely get proper advice if you get it wrong, you can get it really wrong really wrong.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no one wants that, yeah exactly yes, so what?

Speaker 2:

so someone's hopefully trying to get it right, yes, and they're saying I am actually looking to set up my business here. Yeah, what are the steps and things that they should start putting in place, or would they need to start getting together what's like their shopping list of items?

Speaker 1:

yeah, sure. So we generally start with the tax consultancy first. So make sure that we do a tax report, kind of go through all the steps of becoming non-resident, you know what they need to do. Because I think once people get their head around that and they're happy that they can make that work, then the rest of it follows. So then it's a case of, okay, what is it the business can be doing? What activity is it? Is it, do you need a free zone company? Do you need a mainland company? So kind of understanding the best structure, um, is it a regulated industry? All that kind of stuff. So once we've established that, it's then setting the company up, then they come to Dubai and we get their visas and then kind of just accounts and tax kind of follows after that.

Speaker 2:

So that's generally the order we tend to take people through and the cost is quite a lot different as well and this is another thing I don't think people really get- yeah like in the UK, where you can set up a business for 6.99,. You can get your bank account super easy, you know, using Tide or Revolut or whoever's offering it, whereas in the UAE it's not quite like that.

Speaker 1:

No, it's more expensive, but naturally there's no tax. So you know swings and roundabouts, right, so it is more expensive to set up. You do have usually annual trade license renewal fees. So people think they just pay five grand to set up and then they're done. But it's like actually paying that every year, yes, um, and stuff like that. So it's making sure people understand that they do need to budget for their setup costs, their annual renewal costs, their visa renewal costs, as and when those come up.

Speaker 1:

Um, so yeah, it's definitely more expensive and more admin heavy um here. Which is why we kind of do the formations and do the company setup process for people, because it's not like you can just go into a company's house and just set a company up. It's not like that here and there's so many different options here and depending on what you do will depend where it's best for you. You know it's like you know if you're a recruitment company, you're best going to probably made out or something like that that has recruitment as an activity. Um, you know, if you're in in medical, maybe you're going to go healthcare city. Like there's different options depending on what you do. So it's it's just making sure you get your activity right, don't just go for like consultancy or you know something like easy, just just to set it up, and it's actually not what you're doing not.

Speaker 2:

Not the right, yeah, not the right activity, as that's. That's a very valid point, because there are a lot of free zones that actually advertise to people directly as well. Yes, and of course, they're gonna only place you in their free zone. Yeah, it's like going to a mortgage broker. Yeah, that is you know, it's like going to get your mortgage from hsbc. They're not going to offer you barclays or natwest or whoever else. It's only going to be for from, from that uh, provider, which, again, is why making sure that you speak with someone is important yeah, definitely, and it's, you know.

Speaker 1:

I think it's tempting for people because if they see like a cheaper option or they think, well, you know, I'm sure I can do it myself. But the problem is is, you know, sometimes people get set up on the wrong type of visa. They've got an investor visa and they should have an employee visa, and you know, we see that all the time. And I think if you're gonna, if you're willing to make a move to another country, you know at least you want to get those bits right and not worry about it. You know it's not going to come back to bite you, um, so that's why we kind of make sure when you set people up in the right free zone or mainland, if that's the case.

Speaker 2:

Is there an amount you look for turnover or revenue, profitability, whatever it is before you would say, yeah, do you know what you actually is well worth you setting up, because you can also get like freelance visas and things like that as well yeah, you can.

Speaker 1:

And freelance visas, as far as I'm aware, because it's not something that we also, but they're more like employed visas really, because somewhere down the line companies issued a ton of visas and you're effectively employed by that company. Um, so you don't really have control over your visa. If you're a freelancer, I think there's not necessarily a profit or a turnover figure, I think because we have some clients that don't actually trade their companies here so they set them up as a vehicle to moving out.

Speaker 1:

Um, they may trade them in the future, but they actually have uk business doing really really well, or they have companies in other countries doing really really well and they they just want to live here yeah um. So I wouldn't say there's necessarily like a minimum turnover or profit, but I think um their overall financial position is important you know it's not, it's not cheap in dubai.

Speaker 1:

You know, you probably see it all the time like online posts of people going I'll, I'm just going to come to dubai and hope for the best kind of thing and you're like, um, how's risky, how you gonna afford that. Yeah, it's super risky. Um not saying you shouldn't take risks, because you absolutely should, but you know, I think calculated risks and risks and make sure that you know how much it's going to cost and that it's going to work for you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is a very, very expensive place to live.

Speaker 1:

It is.

Speaker 2:

I think as well. A lot of people get caught up in the lifestyle when they come over as well, which obviously can impact short-term savings very quickly. Housing is more expensive. There's obviously a hell of a lot of positives to being here. I would say.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I've definitely in the middle east for 14 years yeah, you've been a long time, but, um and I've seen it all the way through but the the things that people massively underestimate are just the general living costs, schooling as well, and stuff like that you take for granted at home. You don't get here, so there's, there's a lot more to it than just tax. Yes, um, but it is an important part that you should, uh, you should make sure you, uh you get right yeah so we've got any success stories of people that have moved over.

Speaker 1:

Um, so people sitting on the fence that have got it really right and, you know, have done really well out of it yeah, to be honest, I think I have only had success stories really because that's from our clients and like even myself for my own story. You know, I moved here not really with any intention of having a uae business, just wanting to move here for a couple of years. And then because of what dubai is like and it's just such a just such a buzzing, fast-paced place and everyone's kind of an expat and everyone wants to help everyone. I ended up with people wanting my help and my services and you know well, can you do our accounts? You know we've got UAE business, jerry, can you do them? And I'm like sure, yeah, you know, not one to ever turn down an opportunity. Um, you know you set your business up, can you set ours up? Yep, no worries. And then all of a sudden now I've got a uae business and it's grown so ridiculously quickly.

Speaker 1:

So I think that is a success story in itself because it just shows the power of networking for one and not even networking in the kind of traditional going to events and stuff, but I just mean meeting people and having conversations with people and you know that opportunity here in dubai I've seen myself personally, but also from our clients. You know the amount of clients that I've had um come here and they're like just need a company not going to train the uae. They've got a company in the uk. You know it's turning over millions, they're doing very, very well. And then literally I'll get a message going just signed a deal in the, just signed a contract with the uae. Everything's changed. And I'm like it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, because that's what it's like here yeah you know, there's just so much business to be done here and um it.

Speaker 1:

I find it so much easier. I don't even live here anymore and I find doing business here and signing clients is so much easier than in the UK. Yeah, just so much easier less competitive.

Speaker 1:

I don't even know if it's. Maybe it's less competitive from my perspective because we are British child accountants and we have the UK UAE kind of niche. That's what we do. You know we help UK business owners out here, so maybe there's a bit of a niche there and maybe there's less competition. But I think it's more because generally has a lot of money and they're not so price sensitive.

Speaker 1:

You know the economy's taking a bit of a bashing in the uk. Um, people don't have so much disposable income. They're trying to keep their costs down. So everything's a bit of a hard sell, I'd say, in the uk, whereas here, I mean, people don't very rarely even look at the costs. You know we send quotes. People just go in like they don't even, yeah, not bothered, they just go yeah, I want you to do the account, so I'll just sign like it's not. You know, obviously it wouldn't be a ridiculous amount. But I'm just saying like it wouldn't matter if I would say you know, say I'm I don't know five thousand a month and another accountant is three thousand a month. It wouldn't they're not. So like, well, I'm gonna go with a cheap option here. I don't, I haven't found that really here why would you say that?

Speaker 1:

I just think, because people have got more money here yeah um, and they're not paying tax so they're not so kind of penny pinching and I understand why people do it in the uk 100 like I do it as well um, but I think it's important to get value for money. So I'm not so bogged about. I don't want the cheap option, I want to get you know, I'm happy to the most expensive if that's the service I receive. And I just think here people are more. They have that gross mindset.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's like just need my calicoid, you're great, you're going to do it yeah, done. Like it's that kind of mentality, whereas in the UK it's just such a kind of long drawn-out decision yeah, drawn out decision, yeah, you know, that's what I find anyway yeah, quicker.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it does things do move a pace here, for sure, which is which is good. Um, yeah, I think, you know, I think things are definitely in terms of the administration process of setting up businesses has become much more streamlined. Yeah, here I remember when I first set up, uh, hoxton in 2018 we would you know that was a that was quite a long-winded process. Yeah, um, so now you can get business incorporated and a bank account fairly quickly. I still find banking is a bit of an issue here and that needs to be taken seriously yes, it does yeah because you can't have a business set up here with a bank account back in the uk.

Speaker 2:

No, you can't, not really gonna work. No, you can't.

Speaker 1:

And the amount of clients I ask that as well the amount of times I get. What am I going to do? Because my clients won't pay? You know, my clients are uk based and they won't pay you a like a. I don't. I don't know what you, you know what you want me to say like is. That's just the way it is. You know, um, and so there are better options now, even in the three years I've been doing it, it's come on away here, but it is more of a challenge than it is in the UK. So bank out for business for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is tough. It's the anti-money laundering. Obviously, dubai were on the grey list. Now they're not, which is fantastic, but also, I think the banks took that and the country as a whole took that massively. It's a big, important thing. It makes everyone's life much more complicated, even for them to raise money. It makes it much more difficult. So very happy that they're off now, which is fantastic, as I'm sure the rulers are as well. More difficult so, yeah, very happy that they're off, uh, now, which is fantastic, as I'm sure the rulers uh are as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but then, therefore, aml is much, much stricter it is and kyc than what it was previously. Um, I think, even buying property and stuff like that here as well. Now, I mean, you used to be able to buy it with cash, yeah, which is quite alien, an alien concept, isn't it in the uk, when you probably can't even take a thousand,000 out of your bank account? Now, yeah, true, but it is a cash society here. It is not a debt, and the credit cards are available. You should watch out for them as well, because some of them do attract really high interest rates. They do, but cash is more accepted.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and checks, yeah, you know and checks. Yeah, you know, checks are still a thing Post-dated checks. Yeah, like give the landlord four checks. Then I'm like excuse me, what do you mean? No, I have a checkbook, but it's just the way it is. You know, checks are a thing and you need a checkbook if you want to rent somewhere and stuff. I mean they are starting to accept now like online payments and stuff like that, but depends on how long you get, yeah, they might go.

Speaker 2:

no, yes, you know, I know my landlord said, yeah, he does not like uh, he does not like uh bank payments, he prefers it coming from check, which I get because there's a lot of stability around it there is because if you've given a check and it doesn't clear, you can get in a lot of trouble.

Speaker 2:

He can get in a lot of trouble. Interestingly enough, though, they have made it now civil, not criminal. Yes, so, yeah, I think you can still get put in, uh, put in jail, don't know me to that, but if it's not, it's not like in the uk, where you just kind you can turn around and go, kind of so what, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's taken seriously, which is a good thing. Anyway, you shouldn't be bouncing, no, you shouldn't. You shouldn't be bouncing checks. What's the biggest differences between the uk and UAE tax system?

Speaker 1:

I think the UAE tax system is newer. So where we have in the UK such a old and very, very, very complex and detailed legislation, they don't have that here. Because I often get asked by accountants like, well, how do you know how to do like UAE accounts and tax and everything? And I'm like, well, if you can do UK tax, which is mind blowing, it's so complicated. Firstly, the UAE only bought corporate tax in 2023. So it's brand new. No accountants know how to do it Right. Like literally, we're submitting the first returns as we speak and that's across the whole country, right? So it's not like they all know how to do it and I don't. Nobody does right, so every single one of them is learning.

Speaker 1:

But secondly, the legislation is really really small in comparison to the uk legislation. So that is five percent ledges. The bat legislation only came in like five years ago, so that's super, super small. The corporate tax legislation is brand new, so it's a lot easier to digest and learn. Skills are transferable. But that's the difference I would say is that you've got really, really complex. You know, thousands of pieces of legislation make up the UK tax system. Here it's minimal.

Speaker 1:

I think it will develop over time because, as people are submitting returns, they're going to build out the legislation to go. Hang on, how do we deal with this? How do we deal with that? But at the moment it's um, it's a lot more simple.

Speaker 2:

So let's let's look at um, let's look at the different types of um tax. So from a personal perspective and from a corporation perspective.

Speaker 1:

So um income tax rates yeah, don't exist yeah, um cgt so it doesn't exist in dubai and in the uk depends, depends what you, what you sell. It's different for companies and properties and stuff like that. Yeah, um, but yeah, none in none in dubai none in dubai.

Speaker 2:

Um, and then, obviously, from the corporate perspective, um, what else do? The last one, let's do inheritance tax. There is none again. Uh, stamp duty when you buy a property there is a tax.

Speaker 1:

There is a, not a tax charge, but there is a fee. Land, there is a land fee.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know how much that is. I think that is. I think that's 4%, 2%.

Speaker 1:

Or 2% to one and 2% to the agent, or something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, something like that. So if you're buying a property, there are taxes, yes, for fees. It's not really called a tax. You add it by land duty yes. Then if we kind of move into the corporate realm, so there is a corporation tax, yes, which? Is 9%, 9%, and that was newly introduced.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so there is tax. There is, there is In 2023, that came in VAT 5%, which and what's the threshold? 375,000 dirhams.

Speaker 2:

So if you make over 375,000 revenue, then you have to file the AT returns.

Speaker 1:

Or exempt yourself if your sales are outside the UAE. Yeah, which?

Speaker 2:

actually quite a lot of businesses do operate like that so many. But then you can't just say well, I didn't know. No, you can't, you have to file an exemption. Do you have to file the exemption every year?

Speaker 1:

No, didn't know they can't. You have to file an exemption, justify the exemption every year, no, just one off. But you still are. Um, you still need to comply with the same rules. So the 375,000 durham turnover threshold still applies. And a lot of people get that wrong because they think, well, I've moved to dubai, my customers are all in the uk, for example, so I'm there's no that yeah but they've done a million durham turnover.

Speaker 1:

Well, it doesn't matter because it's all zero. It does matter because you've missed. You've missed a deadline now to register and exempt yourself. So basically you have to go through the registration process and because then it's yourself at the same time yeah so you can't, you can't ignore it. You, as soon as you hit three, seven, five, you've got to do something about it right away.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very short window to get it in a lot of people also believe that, because obviously so we, if we go back to the, you, if we go back to the individuals, so you've got nine percent corporation tax. But clearly a way to lower that is to pay yourself. Yes, so if you pay yourself an income from the business, yep, that would lower your taxable profits. Yeah in the year. Yeah, so effectively, that is a good way to distribute it is.

Speaker 1:

You do have to be careful, because they've got transfer pricing legislation in place, so what people can't do is just like their profits out or bring themselves below the threshold. Yeah, yeah, so you've got to pay yourself a commercial rate of salary. People always want to know what that is and, uh, I go. If you're going to employ someone to do your job, and the difficulty is that directors tend to always go well, I would you know, I should be paid. Yeah, it's like no, no, no, take yourself by the equation because you're the owner. So, as the owner, if you were a third party doing your job, you wouldn't pay them every penny that your business earns as an owner, you would then get nothing. So what would you pay someone to run the business or do what you do on a daily basis, so that you, as the owner, still earn a good margin?

Speaker 1:

It's trying to get people to kind of differentiate between the two, because they can't. They can't think like that. They think well, you know, I should pay myself a hundred thousand dirhams a month and you go. Okay, well, you weren't paying yourself that in the uk. So you know, or, or you, if you looked to employ someone to do a similar?

Speaker 1:

role not a director, but an actual role in the business. What would that be? You know, a manager, for example? Um, and so you should be really careful that it's a commercial rate of pay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah don't be silly don't be silly with it. And then the other thing that people also need to remember is that if there are dividends left, that's obviously after corporation tax. But nine percent corporation tax is not a lot no, it's not at all it's very low in comparison to other places In the UK. It's 21.

Speaker 1:

It's between well, it's 25, but it starts at 19, and up to 50K is 19, and then it gradually goes up to 25. So for most people they're paying 25%.

Speaker 2:

And if it's an investment company, we'll come on to that next, but if it's an infrastructure, it's an investment company. It's 25 anyway, it's still 25. Yeah, yeah, so interesting. So let's talk about that, because then we do have other types of companies as well. So we've obviously got trading companies, which we've talked about, and people will have, uh, companies to house themselves so they can get a visa. Yeah, and the next one that we would typically deal with would be family investment companies or companies that you hold your assets in yep. So why is that a good idea? If you were in dubai, and anything you should be careful about so I it depends.

Speaker 1:

I hate to give that kind of politician's answer that it really does because, like I'm sure, when you guys are advising people, there's no kind of black and white, so it depends on their whole circumstances I mean people not always going to stay here forever, you know. So it's thinking about what's the long term plan. Like you staying here, you're going back, because ultimately, a lot of the time people are just delaying their tax position, like if you're moving back to the UK at some point and you're going to fall back into the UK system. That's just the way it goes, same as what happened to me when I moved back system. That's just the way it goes. Same as what happened to me when I moved back.

Speaker 1:

Um, so I think, housing assets. You know it wouldn't make any difference if you had an income generating asset here as an individual or as a company. Really, except for that, you might end up paying corporate tax if you own it through a company out here, because there's no income tax. If you own it personally, you're not going to pay any tax. So I think, looking at the bigger picture, what's the long-term plan? Are you staying here? Are we going somewhere else? Have we got kids? Are we passing it on? What are we doing? And then advising whether a corporate structure is best, which is exactly the same as what we do in the UK, really, but there's just more tax implications.

Speaker 2:

Inherent tax is an important one to consider for all of that as well, making sure that we take that into account too, for sure. So what are the common common mistakes you see people make when they rush into dubai without making a proper plan?

Speaker 1:

good question. Quite often people set up investor visas and then want to take a salary and they can't. Yeah, I see that all the time and they don't understand. They're like I work in the business, I know, but you don't have a contract of employment and the problem comes. It's obviously you can take money out of company, but it's dividends for an investor.

Speaker 1:

It's dividends if you're an employee visa, so you're the manager of the business. It's salary and that's what's different. So, like you mentioned earlier about trying to reduce your profit, to reduce corporate tax by paying yourself salary, you can, can't do that if you're on an investor visa, you know and you can do it. But if you know, once it goes to the auditors or whatever they're going to go, where's the employment contract, the salary and where's the salary certificate showing the amount you're being paid? Oh, you don't have it. No, you're on an investor visa. That's not salary, right? So it's um, it's just that one comes up a lot.

Speaker 1:

I think what else do we find? People moving partway through the tax year and not understanding split year rules because they are really, really complicated and just getting up and going and thinking that from the minute they leave, even if it's August, so tax year starts 6th of april. If you move anyway through the tax year, like leave the uk at any point, it's a split year. Split year is different rules, um, potentially, and people don't always understand that, so they'll just move randomly and go, well, it's fine. Like I'm allowed to go out for 90 days and I moved six months through the year, so I'm allowed to about five days.

Speaker 1:

Like they just, and they have no concept that actually, like, dividends are not tax-free in a split year for example, if you want the split year to be tax-free, you need to also be on the full following tax year. There's loads of little nuances and people just don't understand that.

Speaker 2:

And they don't receive the proper advice? Yes, and then they get caught up, which is tough. So you mentioned something interesting before you said audit. So obviously we have small companies exemptions in the UK. Yeah, before you said audit. So obviously we have small companies exemptions in the uk. Yeah, out here, does that exist in dubai or um? Would you recommend the companies?

Speaker 1:

get audited or not. So, yes, it does exist. So initially, when corporate tax came in, there was talk of everyone was going to have to audit accounts. Yeah, submit corporate tax. So even if you were dormant, it had to be audited. Um, I know, I know, and we were like, oh no, and then they announced that that was not the case. So, unless you meet the criteria, either you're a qualifying free zone, which very few people are, which means you pay naught percent then you have to have an audit.

Speaker 1:

Or you're a large company which is testing me now, I think it's like 50 million dirham turnover, something high um, then you have to have an audit. If not, if you don't meet those and there's no other reason for it, then you don't need to be audited, so you can just prepare account as normal. The issue comes when a lot of people need audited accounts for other reasons, like you need to renew your trade license. Say, you've got a mainland company and they go. Can we have your audited accounts? We're not letting you renew without them or the fta request them, which they can do at any point. We've seen that happen. So we do advise our clients to get registered accounts done anyway, but ultimately it's up there yeah, yeah, I think we, we would typically advise.

Speaker 2:

I know we have to because we're regulated, you're regulated, yeah, so we have to get it. It's a stipulation with the regulator yeah but again, like you said, it's you know if you're doing, if you are have got a trading business out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, it does, and it's not like an audit in the uk.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, different yeah, it's a bit less, uh, a bit less intrusive exactly, that's a very good way of yeah, pc way of putting it yeah, yeah yeah, what's like going on to the last couple of questions for you, jerry, and what's one thing you'd advise someone to do before speaking to a tax advisor or accountant?

Speaker 1:

get recommendations. I would say, uh, or at least do a bit of due diligence. You know, look up reviews online, that kind of thing. Um, don't listen too much to the noise. And facebook groups in the general, like joe public trying to advise, which you know, I see it all the time. I'm like you know, if someone will ask a tax question on a facebook group and just random members of the public are like you should do this, you need to do that, and I'm like no, you don't yeah, you know, it's just please don't do that.

Speaker 1:

It's like please, please, don't do that. But I'm just sat there like as a bystander just watching this conversation and all these people saying absolutely like wild things, um. So yeah, just try not to listen too much to the noise. I mean, it's another reason why I've written a book, because I'm trying to brain dump and, although I can't give specific tax advice to your individual circumstances, I've tried to put as much major in the book as possible. From my perspective, obviously a lot of it. But I have moved. I've moved with my family, I've lived here, I've done the schooling, I've done the business side, I've done all of that. So you know, I think, get recommendations and try not to listen to kind of you can listen to people in terms of like socially and you know what schools they like and all that kind of stuff when it comes to really important business stuff. Just, yeah, make sure you try not to listen to random people.

Speaker 2:

And where can people find your book if they want to buy it?

Speaker 1:

It's not released yet, but it will be possibly by the time this podcast comes out. It's going to be on Amazon.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Everyone can join the waitlist for it. On my LinkedIn, jerry Williams, all my social media accounts, there is a link to the waitlist. It should be out in the next couple of weeks. I'm hopeful by the end of May it will be out, but I've been saying that for about two and a half years.

Speaker 2:

It's on its way though it's written. It just needs editing, it's just not final. And finally, if someone is serious about relocating to Dubai their business interests, selling their business what's the very first step they should take? From a tax perspective.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think, establishing their personal tax position, like what it is now, what it's going to be, and how they, how they make that cut from the uk tax system, you know, really, really um break ties. I guess I think that understanding that is where so many people don't and just wing it, yeah, I'm like it's such a big. You know, people are saving like hundreds of thousands of pounds, sometimes millions of pounds of tax, and just winging it, like for the sake of you know, spending a very, very small amount of money and getting peace of mind. So I think definitely the personal tax side is is the big one yeah, definitely get that right first yeah, and understand it.

Speaker 1:

You know, understand. This is my situation, not like because I say to people all the time like because they go, what about you? How, how many years were you allowed back? And I go don't worry about me, because mine might be different to yours. You might be allowed back for six months. You know, people are sometimes allowed back for six months of the year. They don don't realise.

Speaker 2:

So it's what's specific to you, yeah, and getting it right, getting it right and getting that advice early on? Yeah, definitely, because paying a few thousand pounds initially is well well worth it than getting tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax bill later, which we've also seen as well from people that have got bad advice. Yeah, so we obviously work very closely with jerry um. If you are interested in uh setting up your business or moving your business to dubai, obviously let us know and then we can connect you with jerry uh as well. Um, but yeah, it's uh, you know, a very important subject that you should 100 receive advice on. And and again, none of this is personalized financial advice. None of this is personal tax advice. We will need to make sure that we get your personal circumstances and provide that in regulated format, especially from the financial advice side. Is tax advice regulated here? No, no, and on that note, on the shelf.

Speaker 1:

That sounded like a really short answer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, no, it isn't um no but no, but on that we will. Uh, thanks, jerry very much for joining us. Thank you, hope you found it useful and please like and subscribe if you found this good and you want more information on your taxpayers and financial advice. Thank you very much. Thank you.