Hoxton Life

HOXTON LIFE SPECIAL: Hoxton Wealth's Expansion Across Asia & The Story Behind the Infinity Financial Solutions Acquisition

• Hoxton Wealth

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What really happens when two established international financial planning firms come together?

In this special episode of Hoxton Life, we sit down with Trevor Keidan, Founder of Infinity Financial Solutions, and Oliver Gorman, Revenue Director at Hoxton Wealth, to explore the story behind Hoxton’s acquisition of Infinity - one of the most strategic and culturally aligned partnerships in the company's history.

This episode explores how two firms came together with a shared focus: honouring the past, protecting client trust, and accelerating growth across global markets.

In this episode we discuss:

  • Why cultural alignment matters more than numbers in M&A
  • How to build a seamless client experience during acquisition
  • The legacy Infinity built - and how Hoxton plans to honour it
  • Why Southeast Asia is key to Hoxton’s international strategy
  • Lessons for founders thinking about exit or scale
  • What advisers can expect post-acquisition - and what it means for their future

Whether you’re a business owner thinking about succession, or an adviser curious about international opportunities - this episode is definitely one to watch.

🎧 Listen now on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.
📩 Want to speak with our M&A team? Message us directly.

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Speaker 1:

We are delighted to announce the acquisition of Infinity Financial Solutions by Hoxton. We have grown from the three of us to a business in six countries with a significant assets under management. It's been a 20-year journey. Things have changed in Bangkok tremendously the buzz I felt. It's like a lightning bolt that strikes through.

Speaker 2:

Everyone here in this room right now. It's clear that Hoxton do what they say they do and I think in this industry that's very, very difficult to find.

Speaker 1:

And those four key stakeholders are us as the vendor, hoxton as the acquirer, our staff, the consultants who are looking after the clients, and the clients themselves, and if one of those is a loser in that deal, the deal doesn't work. That was where I realised that I was excited about being part of something new.

Speaker 3:

We've come up against some problems because we're talking about all the great things, aren't we? And let's be realistic. Some of these people might be listening to this podcast right now and they're thinking about their business. Now it's not easy, is it?

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 3:

Trevor, thanks for joining us today on the Hoxton Life podcast. Welcome back, ollie Gorman. So there's a bit of an announcement today, apparently so, apparently so. Well, you've been in Dubai for the last week and you've been very, very busy eating out of rooms together.

Speaker 2:

Rumours will be spreading, guys.

Speaker 3:

I tell you what let us know what the news is.

Speaker 1:

Well, we are delighted to announce the acquisition of Infinity Financial Solutions by Hoxton Wealth.

Speaker 3:

Fantastic and we are absolutely happy to have you on the Hoxton Live podcast today and to hear about your story personally in respect of your business this wonderful business that you've built over in Asia and the relationship you had with Ollie and how you've come to find Hoxton and, ultimately, why you've decided to sell your business and, as we like to say here at Hoxton, get on the Hoxton bus.

Speaker 1:

so brilliant, exciting time. Brilliant to have you here.

Speaker 3:

It's been great actually great meeting the team as well. From Southeast Asia. I've got a big affinity to Southeast Asia. I traveled around it for quite some time and I absolutely love Southeast Asia. So meeting all the different advisors in all the different locations, telling me about all the challenges and the successes that they are having in each of those jurisdictions, for me is just, you know, it's wonderful and a great addition to an international business which is hoxton wealth. So I'll tell you what. How did you guys sort of actually first of all tell us a little bit about the business Infinity? When did you start it? Okay, and tell us a little bit about the story.

Speaker 1:

Infinity Financial Solutions was founded in 2004. There was three founding partners with offices in Malaysia, K and a great team of advisors and back office staff. It's been a 20-year journey. Like any journey it's been, with its ups and downs, with its stresses, but we're delighted to be where we are today and especially delighted to be here with you guys. Fantastic.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and could you tell us a little bit about the locations? Where are you based in Asia?

Speaker 1:

So we have offices across Southeast Asia and China. So our offices are in Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam, Phnom Penh in Cambodia, Bangkok in Thailand, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, as I said, China, Shanghai and Hong Kong.

Speaker 3:

Fantastic, great, some fantastic locations and additions for Hoxham. Well, if you spent a bit of time over in Asia yourself, oli, yeah, correct.

Speaker 2:

I mean I was over in Malaysia previously. Like we mentioned before, I ran a recruitment business Trevor and Infinity were one of our clients, spent six years in Malaysia, love the region, lots of opportunity, and I suppose that's how we've connected. Well, we reconnected last year and got it to this position over a 12-month period. That's fantastic.

Speaker 3:

What's the market like over in Asia? Can you give us a kind of overview of it? Because I can't picture it, I can't kind of.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it's an interesting market. Southeast Asia is a highly desired destination. Everyone wants to go, everyone wants to visit. There's a significant expat community which is where we work. So if you think of Thailand, you've got a big expat community running businesses, hotel managers. You've got your retirees looking to enjoy their retirement in Asia and then, through the region, hong Kong is much more business oriented. I don't think you'd particularly go there to retire, but people go there to work and earn money, and it's the same through the region. You've also then got places like Vietnam, ho Chi Minh, which really has tremendously developed over the last years, and Cambodia, where I can remember visiting in the early 2000s. And now you've got skyscraper buildings and motorways and traffic, whereas when I first went there you know two, three stories and no traffic at all. So it's a very different environment today, but it's still developing and there's still lots of opportunity.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, fantastic I managed to catch up with paul at the conference and we talked about cambodia and just kind of it's quite obviously I've been to cambodia is quite quite small. We talked about sort of 4 000 british expats I believe are in Cambodia. I mean, is that the similarities across Southeast Asia?

Speaker 1:

No, cambodia's a much smaller country. If you think of Vietnam, you know there's a massive population. There's also massive opportunity. Over the last, I would say, decade you've had, you know, companies like Starbucks who have just grown and expanded through Vietnam. So there's a lot more opportunity there for expatriate work and therefore there's a lot more opportunity for good quality financial advice for good quality financial advice.

Speaker 3:

When you think about the cities in Southeast Asia, I always kind of remember Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, sort of leading the way in respect of, I suppose, commercialism and forward thinking.

Speaker 2:

Kuala.

Speaker 3:

Lumpur, to me always was the top. Is that still what's the case now? Like you talked about Ho Chi Minh City being quite up and coming, yeah, but where, would you say, really is the? And Singapore, obviously, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so Singapore is probably the top city in the region in terms of infrastructure, in terms of development. It's also I don't want to offend anyone, but it's also probably the most docile city. It's very clinical and clean. It's an amazing place. It's a great place to do business and there's huge opportunity there. We're not in Singapore purely because of the licensing challenges, but I think that's something between us and Hoxton that we're looking to change, so that's a very exciting opportunity for the future. Bangkok has been noted as probably the most expensive city in Southeast Asia after Singapore. Wow, things have changed in Bangkok tremendously. It's grown up. It's really grown up immensely and it's got a great nightlife scene Not the nightlife scene it's notorious for, but a proper grown-up nightlife scene. Great restaurants, lots of business there. The roads are being cleaned up, the pavements are level All these exciting things that we've seen over the last 20 years of development. All these exciting things that we've seen over the last 20 years of development.

Speaker 1:

I remember when I first went to Bangkok, you would walk down the pavements on pieces of wood that wobbled and you were lucky if you didn't fall in a ditch. Still have our challenges. Still have electricity wires hanging everywhere. It hasn't lost its charm. It hasn't lost its charm, but it's certainly growing up very fast.

Speaker 3:

I always remember the coastline road yeah, we don't go there.

Speaker 1:

You don't go there. That's for the backpackers.

Speaker 3:

I was there I was there about 20 years ago, so you've lived there, haven't you? For 24 23, 24 years yeah and what's it like as a city to live in? You obviously like it if you've been there that long.

Speaker 1:

Hey look it's vibrant, it's dynamic. It's incredibly challenging, yeah, but if it wasn't challenging it wouldn't be fun. So it's been a great 24 years. You get out to the islands much, um, not as much as one would hope, yeah, it's the same. Anyway, you know, when you live in the city you work and when you go on holiday you go. You tend to go home, to visit home and maybe go to Europe or wherever. During COVID I got to the islands. I was very lucky and spoiled, yeah, but I don't get to the islands enough. We do drive down to, or used to drive down to, hua Hin quite a bit, which is kind of three hours from Bangkok. It's quiet, it's seaside, an amazing place and kind of somewhere to go and de-stress one more question before we move on to how you ended up meeting with Hoxton.

Speaker 3:

Okay, if you had picked one place in Asia that you would live if it wasn't Bangkok, would it be if I say Bangkok.

Speaker 1:

You've got to say Bangkok, if, if I could pick one place in Asia to live in, and it wasn't, and it wasn't Bangkok. Where would it be Right now? Without question, Ho Chi Minh.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you love Ho Chi Minh, don't you? I do Saigon, yeah, saigon.

Speaker 1:

It was never a place I loved until probably the last five or six years and it's just blown me away and there's such a good opportunity there and my clients are telling me it's an amazing place to bring up kids. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Is it yeah?

Speaker 1:

It's. You know it's safe, Although you hear of a lot of pickpocketing, so maybe people will have had different experiences. But where don't you? Yeah, exactly my clients who have young children rave about it as a place to live.

Speaker 3:

I really liked Vietnam. Nha Trang Hoi An Really loved it. I think it's one of the fastest-growing economies in the world currently, isn't it? Is it?

Speaker 2:

It's one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Currently isn't it Is it? It's one of the fastest developing countries in the world Vietnam.

Speaker 1:

It wouldn't surprise me, but I'll leave that stat to you this is why.

Speaker 3:

I get excited about working for Hoxton Wealth right, it's an international business. We're talking about so many different locations where advice needs to be given, and there are very few and far between in the international space good quality financial planning firms, and we've obviously come across a fantastic firm here that fits the role of Hoxton Wealth, and it's things like you feel the same way about us. First off, how did the relationship come about between Hoxton Wealth and Infinity? Do you want to?

Speaker 1:

start. Well, I'd actually like to jump onto something before that, of course you can, and that is the advice-led businesses. One of the things that we've struggled with is to find congruence in the businesses that would be looking to work with us. I think, because of our distribution and the countries we're in and the length of time we've been in business, we were quite an attractive target for a lot of businesses. But to find a business that was aligned to us in terms of the advice, integrity, ethics, all these good things that people may take as given, are not given in our industry, unfortunately, and I think we know that.

Speaker 1:

So for me, seeing Hoxton and the way you guys present yourself and the way you deliver on that promise is incredibly aligned to us as a business. And coming to your offices for the first time, I got that message loud and clear from every senior manager I spoke to and that gave me more confidence in doing a deal with Hoxton than you could imagine. So really, that was the number one driver for us. We were not prepared to sell out, yeah, and this is not selling out. This is taking our business to the next level.

Speaker 3:

I love it. I love how you mentioned coming to dubai, because I've had that same experience. You know, I'd sold my business in the uk. I was at a crossroads. I was running financial plan of life. I was thinking about building that out on my own, setting up another business. Me and chris have spoken numerous times. He's been on my podcast before in the past and I've always known of Hoxton right, but I had a perception and I had a perception of the market out here, you know, and I thought it was a bit cowboyish. If I'm completely honest with you, we all get tainted with that same brush. Yeah, well, I did, I did, but when I came out and it was something that I and you have to visit Hoxton, you have to come to the office if you're interested in either A working for Hoxton or B merging or being acquired by Hoxton. And the way I like to summarise it and sum it up, it's the heartbeat of.

Speaker 1:

Hoxton, I can tell you right now that I came into the office. It was about eight o'clock in the morning, 8.30 in the morning on that Monday when I was invited out. I think it the office. It was about 8 o'clock in the morning, 8.30 in the morning On that Monday when I was invited out. I think it was Monday and the buzz I felt it's like a lightning bolt that strikes through you. And it's, when I say a lightning bolt, just this positive, vibrant environment where you just feel people are thriving and that's all well and good, but it has to be backed up with the ethics and integrity of good advice. And when I realised that it just made sense to me and it's really vibrant.

Speaker 3:

So when you say you realised that, just go a little bit deeper. Then when did you realise?

Speaker 1:

that I realised it quite early on talking to all the senior management and you can pick a lot up from the words people use. Words are incredibly powerful and a lot of the way that we communicate and we speak and the things that we say about the advice we give and how we like to give advice was being given to me about Hoxton. Now you can hear it, but then you actually need to test it and the way I tested it was it was quite interesting. Ollie sent me an email and said we have a one of our consultants has a client in Hong Kong and needs some help giving them advice. So I went down the road with the consultant, we spoke about it all and I came to the end and I said what are you going to charge? And my heart was kind of in abeyance, right going, please be the right answer, please be the right answer.

Speaker 1:

And what came out was exactly what we would do. You know, advice led a front-end fee that was very reasonable for the advice given. It wasn't old school advice. It was modern, upfront, clear, transparent and that was just kind of the final thing that told me that everything that I had thought and experienced and heard and seen had been confirmed, and I know it was only one consultant, but I know that that is the lifeblood of your business, as it is ours. I love it and that good advice piece is really important, great.

Speaker 3:

I also love the way that when you came over the same as when I came over right they just wheeled everybody out. Yeah, and there was no. I got it was exhausting. Yeah, I just got, you know, I got grabbed and said can you sit down and have a chat with Trevor about what it is you're doing and what your experience has been like? Nobody prepped me. Nobody said, right, I've got someone coming over, we've got to do this, we've got to do that, we've got to get this deal on. I didn't even know.

Speaker 1:

I didn't really even know it was very clear you weren't prepped, because you had no clue who I was.

Speaker 3:

You meant to be being nice Actually.

Speaker 1:

I was just like you're like, who are you? I was like I'm Sam.

Speaker 3:

He's like I'm not meeting you. I was like what, you were excited, right, I was well excited.

Speaker 2:

I think also the confidentiality part, isn't it? We're bringing people in. If it's an acquisition, we don't want to be speaking loudly about what the with someone. You can read by body language, their reactions, and I feel if people are prepped, it's a lot more. You feel like they've been prepared to speak to you in a certain way, whereas if you come in and it's just a general conversation, it's a lot more comfortable than being prepped for a meeting yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 3:

How did it come about then the relationship ollie, from your perspective, then? You've obviously worked in recruitment in southeast asia for a long time. You were aware you've the good, the bad and the ugly, because you recruited into those businesses and I bet a few of them over the years have given you a bit of a headache, haven't they? Yeah for sure, trevor, give you much of a headache, or what?

Speaker 2:

No, actually. So Infinity Asia is a very strange market. There's lots of offshoots and networks. There's lots of weird and wonderful structures of IFA businesses and actually if you looked at Asia yeah, hong Kong and Singapore you get a lot more structured businesses. The regulators are a lot stricter, so the businesses in those markets are structured very differently to the grayer markets. But Infinity always had a very similar structure to a UK advice structure where it's advice fees. It's not just high front end structures.

Speaker 2:

Also, I think the expansion and how they grew their assets in different regions was very different to what other people were doing. I think you saw companies or people getting to 20, 30 million. Asia is a very easy-to-live region, so 20 to 30 million gives you a good recurring revenue and I think Infinity were looking to go past what other businesses were doing in terms of assets as well as growth with teams. And yeah, I suppose that's how I identified Infinity. Actually, myself and Chris, two weeks into my job in January, flew out to Asia and we discussed how the Asian market looked and the top of the list was actually Infinity because of how they were structured. There was a deal previously done with Infinity and their investment strategy which was very much in line with what we were looking to do and I feel, adding that all together, I reached out to Trevor we tried to meet up with Ben. Ben was having surgery from from memory.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think he was having dental surgery.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so we couldn't get a face-to-face meeting, but we were on and off phone calls for a fair few months and I think the biggest challenge throughout this process was our industry and the trust element. There's also a lot of businesses go against each other and you're always worried about what the agenda of conversations are, and when you're doing things over the phone it's very much like is this another one of these conversations? Are they going to cause me issues? Further down the line, and after multiple conversations, I think we had a three month pause. Is that correct?

Speaker 2:

yes, we three or four months three or four months pause and I reached out to Trevor and mentioned him. Look, I'm in London, near your office, and they're saying all but near your house in St Albans. Let's meet up in the, have a face-to-face after a fair few years, and I think that's when things started to move forward. It's probably better for you to take over from that point, as it's your business and your emotions from there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, certainly. You know. The whole acquisition process is incredibly challenging when you're not focused purely on your back pocket, and I know that sounds very idealistic. Of course, as a business owner, you want to maximize what you get out of the sale of a business. But what's really important, and what I realized, what we realized very early on, is that there's four key stakeholders that all need to win out of an acquisition and if one of those fails, the deal doesn't work. And those four key stakeholders, I think it's fair to say, are in no particular order. They are equal in priority and that is us as the vendor, hoxton as the acquirer, our staff, the consultants who are looking after the clients and managing the AUM and the clients themselves, managing the AUM and the clients themselves. And if one of those is a loser in that deal, the deal doesn't work. And for Ben and I, there's no desire to go into a deal that's not going to work for everyone. So we've been courted for 10 years now. People have been trying to buy our business and we needed to have an option which filled us with confidence and pride, so that we could stand up in front of our team and say this is where we're going. This is the new pathway and we're really excited about it.

Speaker 1:

And as I got to know Hoxton more and as Ollie said, we you know we had conversations. You guys made us an offer. It didn't feel right to us, we put it on the back burner. We went and had conversations with other people which led us down a different path, and that didn't work out. Then Ali and I sat down face to face and we said you know, this doesn't work. We need to find a way forward. And Ali was really straightforward with me. He said we want to buy you guys. You guys are the best out there. We want you. What's it going to take?

Speaker 1:

And from that point, Chris invited me to the offices and that was the turning point. That was where I realized that I was excited about being part of something new and vibrant and where we could really grow and develop the business to the next level. Really grow and develop the business to the next level. I think sometimes as a business owner, you get to a plateau and kind of getting to the next plateau, you need a bit of an injection of fresh, vibrant excitement. And I think that's what Hoxton will deliver for the business and I will remain part of the business and I'm that's what Hoxton will deliver for the business, and I will remain part of the business and I'm really excited about the future, both for myself, for the team, for our clients and for you guys. Yeah 100%.

Speaker 3:

I love it, would you say you were at a stage with the business where it needed that.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely we. You know. I would say that for a few years now we've stagnated. We went through amazing growth trajectory. In the early days we built this great business, we were really passionate about it and then we had to or we didn't have to we decided that we needed to change the way we gave advice and move to a more UK RDR-compl compliant type of advice model with external asset managers. And we partnered with a UK asset manager and that really flicked a switch for us and it made us stand out from our competitors. It gave us an amazing story to tell and it gave great quality advice for our clients and that kind of gave us a springboard to growth.

Speaker 1:

And coming to the tail end of that, you know we kind of plateaued and I think that you get to a point. You know I'm no longer a young guy like the team at Hoxton. You know getting out there in age and you need a bit of energy and a different outlook to drive the business to the next level. So really the question is do you hang on to something and let it stagnate and eventually die, or are you big enough and mature enough to say I want to let my baby go out into the world and grow up to be a fully functioning adult, and I think that analogy is where we're at with the business, and I will take no more pride than seeing Infinity, as part of Hoxton, become this big global player, and I have no doubt that that's where it's going Love that mate.

Speaker 3:

The business has a life of its own. It needs to grow up and it needs to move on, and it's the knowing when to cut the apron strings.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you can strangle it just like with a child. At some point you have to.

Speaker 3:

I could do that sometimes. Sometimes you want to strangle a child.

Speaker 2:

You know at some point you have to. I could do that sometimes. Sometimes you want to spangle a child.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully she doesn't see this, but in reality, when your child grows up and my child, my boy's turning 14 this week you have to give them freedom of action and freedom of thought to learn. And it's the same with the business. It's, you know, we've passionately cajoled the business to where it is, we've protected it and now we really need to let it go and flourish.

Speaker 2:

I actually think I remember the conversation in the office. So when we were talking about the reasons for the sale and the potential issues you've had with previous acquirers, you mentioned specifically that you were. You didn't want to look back at the business and see it burn. You wanted to look back at the business and see it grow, which was a key part to the sale wasn't, as you mentioned, a financial. Well, of course, financials were involved, but a big part of it was looking back at something that you put blood, sweat and tears into to build up and you want to look at it and take it to the next level with a bigger entity, and it puts us all on the map because we will be the largest license-wise, hopefully, in our industry and there's hopefully a couple more coming through as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know you look at this. Hoxton is a big business that's grown very quickly. Infinity is a business that's grown to a level. I think it's a significant acquisition for Hoxton. It's probably the first of several that O ollie will be driving forward, um, but for both of us, you know, it's an important event, um, and certainly from from my perspective, it's making sure that we integrate effectively.

Speaker 1:

Um, we are very aligned on our outlooks. We're actually very aligned on our structures and on the products and advice that we advise on. For me personally, you know you're right, I want to see it thrive and I want to be part of the next stage. I think when we first started talking to Hoxton, it was very much we'll buy the company and you can go off into the sunset. And it just filled me with dread, not because I wouldn't be happy to just go off into the sunset, but because I knew that the potential of success fell drastically with the loss of Ben and I as part of the leadership team of the future, because we've been there for 20 years and people feel comfortable with us.

Speaker 3:

You understand the culture, you understand the cultures of those different countries that we do not understand. It'd be very arrogant to think you could just ball into a new country with advisors in it that have come with the acquisition as well, and just to think that we could come in and take over. That's a very you know consolidator type. It's dangerous. It's dangerous, yeah.

Speaker 3:

You're going to destroy it, you're going to destroy it. So it's integral that you stay, it's integral that everybody stays in place, and there isn't a great deal of change. What? And there isn't a great deal of change? What there needs to be is positive change. There needs to be things coming that are adding value. What I'd love to understand is so our listeners can understand as well, what are those positive changes that you see coming in? What is it from Hoxton that makes you go, wow, that's going to add some serious value to our business and I know that's going to help it grow.

Speaker 1:

I think there's probably two key areas. The first one is marketing and brand and getting the business out there. We've been pretty poor at that, right. I think we've got a good brand, we've got a good reputation, we're well-respected, but we haven't invested in shouting from the rooftop and you guys are doing that. You're out there, sam, you've got a big marketing team, you've got budget to invest in that and that's the one thing. Other than that, you know, it's the size of the business, it's the regulation Having multiple jurisdiction regulation is great, but really the real key thing here and something I picked up visiting the offices, is traditional financial advice. That's technology-led and it's that technology piece that our industry is missing massively. And let me tell you, I know for my advisors that is going to be a major, major, impactful part of the acquisition and for our clients it's going to be amazing just to have an app yeah, I love that yeah, it's also mentioning Trevor, the team that you have, infinity, because Hoxton also get value out of the deal.

Speaker 2:

It's not just the expansion into different regions. Infinity actually have a very diverse team. You mentioned, obviously, british expats in Asia. Infinity aren't just British expats. I mean it's probably better for you to go through the specifics of your team and how it works. But there is more than just British people which generically in the IFA market most people think is just British people going around dealing with British people. But Infinity is a very different solution.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm scared to, because I'll end up forgetting someone.

Speaker 1:

But you know we have a Japanese focus. We have two Japanese consultants that work with the Japanese community In Thailand. There's a huge Japanese community I think 40,000 plus and Yukie, who works with us in Bangkok, has worked with me for 20 plus years. You know, we've got people who've worked in our business almost since the day it started and there's nothing more gratifying than that tenure because it just shows the loyalty and the love for the business that they have. So we have, you know, a Dutch consultant in Shanghai who focuses on the Dutch community. We've got your British consultants. We'd love to have Korean consultants because there's a big Korean network in our region and other nationalities. So we are not a purely British expat-led business. We're much more diverse than that, and good financial planning should be available for everyone, right?

Speaker 3:

I love that. That's just got me really excited. Obviously, I've met a few of them at the conference this week, but that's got me really excited. There's so many things that we can do around that. Just again, it makes Hoxton so different and so diverse.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the diversity is really important and hopefully we can grow that more as a partnership.

Speaker 3:

Do you know the whole inclusivity and diversity side of things? Right In the UK, distinctly like women in the profession, most financial advisors are middle, asian and white. Right We've got more male advisors than we've got female advisors, but we do have a decent number of female advisors.

Speaker 2:

We want to build on it.

Speaker 3:

We want to build on that we want more coming in, which is why we've done like the podcast series now women and wealth but we've also got a very diverse team. And now when I listen to when I say diverse in respect of different nationalities, different backgrounds, yours is a great addition to that and that's how I see this business growing. An international business needs to be diverse, it needs to work with different communities, it needs to have people who can speak that language and understand that culture, and I love that.

Speaker 1:

So you have these values, don't you with hoxton, that are transferable regardless of where you are in the world yeah, and because we have offices in so many countries, you know we have administration team, that is, there's at least one person from each country. So we, you know, in Vietnam, our administrator and office manager is Vietnamese and you know she's incredible. And in Cambodia, we have an amazing Cambodian team and they are so capable and qualified. So we have a very diverse team of back office, administration, accounting, and they are loyal, long-term serving and amazing, amazing people and I hold my hat up to say I think we have the greatest administration team in the industry Perfect.

Speaker 2:

So we all have the greatest administration now.

Speaker 1:

Well, soon we'll be able to tell.

Speaker 2:

We're going head to head right.

Speaker 3:

Well, Louis will be back listening to this.

Speaker 2:

I'll show you we are one, we're not two I actually think that we are one company. I actually think that.

Speaker 3:

You can't keep thinking that yeah, we are one, we are together.

Speaker 2:

It's our admin team?

Speaker 1:

No, yeah, we are together. It's our admin team. No, absolutely, and I think that Louis and Ying will gel well and bring the teams together and learn from each other, because I know there's stuff that we do exceptionally well, yeah, and I know there's stuff that you guys do amazingly well, yeah, and we can be exceptionally amazing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, perfect, that's what we're all about. There you go. Industry impact. Then, guys, what kind of impact do you think it's going to have on the financial planning landscape, say in Asia, the UK, internationally, I think?

Speaker 2:

we will be the largest in terms of licensing infrastructure. So if you are American, British, Australian, there's the option, which is a huge market, Although Infinity are dealing with other types of clients. Actually, the Australian, US, UK market is huge.

Speaker 2:

And the ability to deal with the repatriation of those clients is massive. A lot of the companies in Asia deal with clients when they're in Asia but they do not have a plan for when they return back to their countries. The fact that we can continue to service those clients is a massive selling point, I think, for advisors as well. Advisors can grow into a rapidly developing market and have an offering which currently isn't in Asia, which, in my opinion, should have a huge shockwave into Asia, and we are looking to build on the Infinity team within Asia. But the impact is very much licensing infrastructure technology which currently isn't in the Asian market, and likewise there is not many who I can think of one or two companies that are in Asia and hold the UK license and I can't think of any that have the US, uk, australia and UAE Europe licenses as well.

Speaker 3:

He knows his stuff, doesn't he?

Speaker 1:

He does, I've got nothing to add.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely no, you do know your stuff, and that's another reason why people should talk to you, because you know the good, the bad and the ugly and that's the most important thing. You understand the market, which is why trevor's sat here today sold his business to hoxton I. You know, that's what people need to understand. They're gonna be booking a meeting with him, with you, you understand. You understand the landscape. It's it's very, very important that you walk the walk and talk the talk, and you clearly obviously do that, which is great and I definitely understand the frustrations, like of this industry.

Speaker 2:

We, I think we mentioned previously, I've been through the ups and downs of the industry myself, as most people have, and there are things to look out for and businesses to be aware of and I suppose there's a reason where myself and you and Trevor have all gone from running our own businesses to now working with Hoxton, because they are doing things correctly and the business is. We're stronger together than working independently and I think that's a very powerful point to the expansion in the future.

Speaker 3:

Have you come up against any problems? Because we're talking about all the great things, aren't we? And let's be realistic Some of these people might be listening to this podcast right now and they're thinking about selling their business hopefully selling it to Hoxton, and we can do a great deal, like we are with you Now. It's never easy, is it no? Deal like we are with you now. It's never easy, is it no?

Speaker 1:

so tell us a little bit about, maybe, some of the challenges or problems that you've come up against and how do we overcome them so I think the first and biggest challenge and this is not a one-way street, this is from I'm talking perspective of both hoxton and infinity is one. Like I know, you guys knew very little about Asia other than it's an opportunity and we want to be there. We knew nothing of Hoxton. We knew a lot of Dubai and when we heard Hoxton Dubai, the assumption is another one of those Dubai IFAs. So it took quite a long time for Chris and us to connect and understand where we're from.

Speaker 1:

And when we finally got down to the sort of the nuts and bolts and started talking to each other not about the acquisition but about us as people, we realized that actually we're quite similar and quite close in terms of outlook, upbringing and those kind of important things. Because you have to be aligned like if you have a completely different upbringing and outlook, it makes partnering much more difficult. It's like a marriage, right, um, and if you get that wrong, it's very painful to exit. Um, not that I know, I hasten to add in case my wife's listening but, um, it's really, really important that you are aligned in terms of your integrity, your ethics, your outlook, your desires, your you know, your, your wants for the business, um, and I would say getting to that point was probably what took the longest.

Speaker 1:

Look the numbers. The deal either works or it doesn't work, and the deal will be done or not done based on the numbers. But if you can find common ground as people, it makes the rest so much easier. And once that happened and once we got to that point, it made finding a deal that worked for all parties, building of the trust, really easy. And from there it's been smooth sailing, with one caveat, and I'll say one word lawyers yeah, I knew you'd say that other than the lawyers, and you know it just takes mature, fair negotiation to get through that.

Speaker 3:

Just very, very briefly explain it how you explain it to me, because the penny drops when you talked about lawyers for me, what is the bit that's a struggle?

Speaker 1:

The real struggle is that the lawyers are not motivated to get the deal over the line. They're motivated to frustrate the deal so they can bill. So you get the lawyer for the vendor and they write a contract and it is totally vendor-centric. So if you do this, if you do that, but there's no if the vendor does or if the vendor doesn't do right, and then you pass it to your lawyer and he goes, hang on a second, this is one-sided. So they rip it all apart and what happens is if you're not careful and if you're not focused on the deal, you get caught in a wind tunnel of lawyer arguing.

Speaker 1:

And we agreed, chris and I agreed when we agreed on the deal, that we would manage and control the lawyers and say you're getting two rounds, make it work. And whilst it has felt slow, the truth is, olly, it's actually been very quick, has it? Yeah, I mean, we want the deal done, we want it signed as quick as possible for both parties. We get frustrated because the lawyers are taking days to fix the contracts, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, we've been talking for a year and we get the deal over the line in three months. It's pretty impressive, I think.

Speaker 2:

And I think the other point I suppose the frustration was the lawyers. You're already in agreement with the terms before the lawyers get involved and then they change the terms.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then they have a power play to make themselves look better than the other lawyers, and that's the frustrating part.

Speaker 2:

And I think when you are doing deals and things are becoming frustrating at the legal part, it's always worth noting nine times out of 10, it isn't the people that you're dealing with that are making those plays. It's the lawyers that are trying to make a power play, and I think the fact that we clarified that in the early days was helpful, because we were both having conversations on okay, this is what the lawyers are trying to do. How can we position things differently so we're both protected? And I think, as long as both the buyers and the sellers are in a position where they are aligned, you are always going to come to the end of the deal, but it's yeah, the most turbulent time is when the lawyers are changing certain wordings or putting a terminology in which people aren't happy with. That is the frustration. The frustration is the delays when you come to an agreement and also the power plays from the lawyers yeah, which is anybody listening or thinking about setting their business?

Speaker 3:

you've got that's part that comes part of the process, right it?

Speaker 1:

is. But what, what I think, and and maybe I'm at risk here of sounding like ben's going to be annoyed with you.

Speaker 2:

So watch how we say maybe I'm at risk, I'm ignoring you.

Speaker 1:

maybe I'm at risk of becoming a hoxton sycophant, but the reality is the team, ollie, matt, chris they were all aligned with us in getting the deal done. It's when the other party clearly is trying to have your trousers down yeah, that puts you back up right. So when everyone is aligned, it's much easier to find common ground and compromise. And we are here because we wanted to get the deal done. We're not here for a jolly. We've got plenty of other things we could be doing. You guys are not wasting your time going through legals because you just want to annoy us.

Speaker 1:

So the reality is you find the bits that are sticking points, you talk about them and you find a way around them and grown-up adults who are all on the same page find a solution. And sometimes it means compromise. I read I don't know where it was or who it was from that a good deal is a deal where both parties walk away feeling a little hard done by yeah, I like that and there is. You know, there is that part of the deal. So anyone who's looking to do a deal, you've got to come in with willingness and open mind and desire. And if you don't feel comfortable with the party or you don't feel like you really want to do it. It's not going to work.

Speaker 3:

No, I like it. The deal will fail. Let's just give somebody a bit of a tip as well. Right, so they're thinking about doing it, they're coming up to it. One when should they start actually, um, say, talking to somebody about selling their business, like talking to us, for example? If they are going to do that, what should they prepare for? So we're going, they go into a meeting and it's the um, it's the best meeting it can possibly be.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, if you own a business and you need to prepare for a meeting to talk about your business, your business isn't worth buying. That's my view Because you don't know it. If you don't know your business, you don't have a business. Yeah, so you know. You kind of go back to watching things like Dragon's Den, right, and people get roasted because they don't know their numbers.

Speaker 1:

It's true, if you are passionate about your business and focused on your business, you know your business, ben and I know our business inside out. So I didn't start doing weeks of research and reading and everything else to come and meet you guys to talk about our business. I talk about our business from the place it sits, which is in my heart. That's where it is. I know it. I've lived it for 20 plus years and if you're looking to sell your business, one have a good business to sell, because if you don't, it's going to fall at due diligence. So if you're thinking that someday you may want to sell your business, prepare for that early on. Have the structures in place, have the systems in place. One of the things that surprised you guys like like blew your minds, I think was how we are able to give you the data you're asking for. Any of the due diligence you asked for you had within 24 hours.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that was a huge part massive, honestly, any numbers.

Speaker 1:

You asked us you wanted a report. We generated the report because we've invested our time in making sure that we have comprehensive systems in place. We don't do our accounting on the back of a fact packet right. We have audited accounts, we know our numbers, we can generate the AUM, we generate reports and I know that sounds basic, but when you're looking at smaller single owner businesses, they often run on the grace of God and some good luck.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I also think it's not just smaller companies Like well. I've spoken to other businesses in the market and they don't have the information required. So when we spoke with Trevor and Ben initially and requested the information on the details of the business, there was pie charts articulating where the revenue was coming from, the breakdowns of recurrence. It was very, very organized to what we were dealing with with another business in Asia where it was an Excel spreadsheet. Here's what we have An Excel spreadsheet with just random numbers in random places. It's got all sorts of weird terminologies.

Speaker 2:

What Infinity had was a kind of solid structure which also gave us faith in it was the right business to buy. If you have the full details of your business to hand, you're not really trying to hide anything. You're giving everything over in day one. We're not chasing for more information because you're trying to hide something. And it was very clear that Trevor and Ben which we probably haven't gone into details on who Ben is were very transparent on their business and what they have to date, which was very helpful for us. Let's give Ben a shout out. Yes, of course, ben Bennett.

Speaker 3:

Hashtag Ben.

Speaker 2:

Bennett, big bad Ben, big bad Ben.

Speaker 1:

I think it's really important. If you're at the point where you're looking at your business, I think who you choose as business partners is really important in driving that outcome. And I've always said you know our business and Ben may kill me for saying this on a podcast, so, ben, I apologize. Had I been running the business, we'd be very happy, but broke. Had Ben been running the business, we'd be, you know, great cash flow, but no one in the business.

Speaker 3:

Between us.

Speaker 1:

We are a very good mix of people and personality. Yeah, I love it, and Ben has always kept us out of trouble, steered the ship in rocky seas, and I've been there with the guys on the front line doing the sales side and and the motivation side, and between us, you know, we've built the business on solid foundations and that's why we were able to deliver everything you needed, or hoxton needed, to give them confidence that we are the business we say we are.

Speaker 3:

Fantastic Deal done. Happy days Deal done, right, let's go party. Let's go party.

Speaker 2:

We've got the conference tonight, which is We've got the awards night.

Speaker 3:

We've had the conference.

Speaker 2:

We're now at the awards night. I do keep getting that mixed up.

Speaker 1:

I'm a little bit concerned about tonight to be honest with you. I'm usually in bed by 10. I'm usually in bed by 10.

Speaker 3:

I'm in bed by 9 usually.

Speaker 1:

I'm usually in bed by 8. The truth is 9, but I didn't want to embarrass myself.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm happy to embarrass myself, as long as you don't embarrass yourself tonight there'll probably be a few people.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure there'll be a few people that do to be fair, I don't want my tuxedos to stay on.

Speaker 3:

It's absolutely amazing talking to you. I've just been a pleasure to meet you, from start to finish, really, and you. I'm really excited about this acquisition and I just know that Southeast Asia is going to be fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Huge opportunity.

Speaker 3:

I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in creating content. I've already got some amazing ideas. Paul, over in Cambodia, he's doing some great stuff around events. You know, I'm just hong kong man. I've never been to hong kong. I want to get out there. I want to see it. So for me it's all about can we bring that to life? Who has? You've built a great business there, right, yeah, but who has brought it to life? He was brought into the world of financial planning so the rest of the financial planning community can look at it and go holy shit, like the international scene is so cool, like the international scene has changed and it's being driven by hoxton, wealth and the great people that will meet along the way that come on the bus and join us we had to leave something for you to do, yeah, you got it.

Speaker 1:

I can't believe me. The fun part we've left you the fun.

Speaker 3:

But if I just got, in right-leaning wills or whatever, and financial advice.

Speaker 1:

I don't think we'd have a business we've done the blood, sweat and tears and you go have the fun. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I can't make the videos to be fair. I I really look forward to to being involved in it with you guys.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 100 on that note, though, what's the next two years looking like? So the deal has been done. You're now kind of you're on board, so what does the next two years actually just look like?

Speaker 2:

you're going to build on it together. Uh, so I think we're stronger as a team now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're I think the first focus is integration. Yeah, getting everyone aligned. Yeah, I actually feel very confident that that will be quick and easy because the technology and the systems and we're all you know we're ready to go. Getting all the guys on board and understanding all the opportunities that Hoxton has to offer that we don't yet have from our side, and then really driving the business forward through some more acquisitions, recruitment, getting some great advisors on board in Asia Really looking forward to that. Your face, energy, mate, exciting times.

Speaker 1:

You know the next two years are going to be.

Speaker 3:

You're talking to a dopamine addict right another thing in the business I think we got. He's like absolute, like growth minded, dopamine addict type people. We love growth, yes, so like when you talk like that, it's just like. It's just interesting. It's good to be part of a business. It's interesting. It's got the right people in it that are all driven to build something. I'm a builder, I'm a creator, I'm a creative, so for me it's exciting so it's another promise that was given to me that's been delivered on.

Speaker 3:

So you coming on board. It's like a promise to you that's been delivered on, but that's you coming on board and giving me interesting work. It's another promise that's been delivered on. It's exactly the same for you. So it's win, win, win for everybody involved, and I love it. Get ready for a lot of work. Yeah, that's all I'll say.

Speaker 2:

I gotta pay me a little more money I think also the the big point to mention. Like everyone here in this room right now, it's clear that hoxton do what they say they do and I think in this industry that's very, very difficult to find and we've all experienced it and we've all experienced a heartbeat of hoxton in the office and Chris and the team doing exactly what they say they will do from the beginning of the deal to the end of the deal. And in this industry that is difficult to find and I'm proud to work at Hoxton, as I'm sure we all are now.

Speaker 3:

What a lovely send-off. Well, chaps, absolute pleasure getting you on the sofa today, hearing your stories, the connection, the heartbeat of Dubai, the heartbeat of Dubai, the heartbeat of the business here at Hoxton. Well, thanks for joining us, and I am so pumped about the future, as am I. Thank you very much. Cheers, sam. Thanks for watching this episode of Hoxton Live. Please make sure you like or comment if you enjoyed the video, and if you want to find out more about the Hoxton Life, just click here.