Hoxton Life

What Happens When a UK Adviser Moves Abroad… Then Comes Back | with Lewis Paterson

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Most of our advisers spend their careers advising globally mobile clients.

But it’s very different when you become one.

In this episode, Lewis Paterson shares what changed when he left the UK to work overseas, built his career as an international financial adviser, and then returned. 

Experiencing the realities of moving countries firsthand - from navigating different systems to understanding the emotional side of relocation - gave him a completely different perspective on the advice he delivers today.

Lewis and CEO Chris Ball explore the wider mindset behind his journey, including the role of adaptability, building a career across different environments, and the entrepreneurial thinking needed to keep progressing in a changing industry.

It’s a reminder that great advice isn’t just technical - it’s shaped by experience, perspective, and the ability to evolve alongside your clients.

Watch the full episode on YouTube, or listen on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Ready to start your international financial planning career?

Hoxton Wealth is looking for ambitious individuals ready to take their careers to the next level. Whether you're interested in international financial planning, compliance, client servicing, or marketing roles within the financial sector, we offer unparalleled opportunities for growth and success.

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Meet Lewis Patterson

SPEAKER_01

I think we made a joke about it when we spoke recently when I told my mum I'd got a job in Aberdeen, but she thought it was somewhere in Wales.

SPEAKER_00

So today on Hox the Knife, I am joined by Lewis Patterson. And he's built a reputation on being able to adapt, grow and deliver for clients, no matter where they are, and obviously no matter where he is based as well.

SPEAKER_01

On the UK side of things, I think you're right. I think people do actually like the fact that I've lived overseas and gone back to the UK, so then a couple of clients that I've worked with this year, it's a well-toring path, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

As a planner, you take less up front, but hopefully the relationship gathers more momentum as you go through and you look after more their assets. You could see it two ways, couldn't it? You could see it as either a cost or you could see it as an investment. The accountability part is massive and it helps you taking it on yourself and being an entrepreneur and having an entrepreneurial mindset. And it's what pushes it forward.

SPEAKER_01

I think you have a much better working relationship if you've had a beer or met their wife or gone to a good kid's wedding. Personal touch is key.

A Non-Linear Start In Advice

SPEAKER_00

So today on Hoxton Life, I am joined by Lewis Patterson. So not only is Lewis one of my really good friends and actually one of the first people that met me when I landed in Abu Dhabi some 14 years ago now, but Lewis is a UK qualified financial advisor with over 17 years of experience in the international financial advice space. And his career has taken him from the early days at DeVere through to Holman Asset and now hopefully in his last place with Hoxton. He's worked across multiple jurisdictions the UK, Europe, GCC, lived in the GCC, now back in the UK, and he's built a reputation on being able to adapt, grow and deliver for clients no matter where they are, and obviously no matter where he is based as well. What makes Lewis's story unique is not just his longevity but his path, moving from UK to the international space, then back to the UK market while still servicing clients globally. He's doubled his AUM in just three years, built out teams within teams, and embodied what it means to truly multi-jurisdictional advice and offering a great proposition to his clients. So welcome. Thank you. Good to have you on. It's been a long time coming. I actually had to uh kind of really a little bit push you to get uh push you to get on this and and and through it. Um so let's start with your you know your opening your career, how uh how you started because it wasn't uh a normal route into financial advice, was it?

SPEAKER_01

No, it wasn't, but I think it's something that's kind of become uh a well-trodden path. I think people have adapted the um the model of becoming good BDMs, do actually go on to become really good advisors, and you can see that evidently within Hoxton today. Um, Ravi, Tom, who's recently stepped up, and and probably many more as well, um, that have learned the job, learned how to prospect, which I know is a a big thing for you, um, and then yeah, gone on to become really, really good advisors. So, so yeah, in the early infancy, when I started, I don't think I had that ambition to want to go on to become an advisor, but now it's kind of a a pre a pre-made roadmap for people to progress their careers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. And I mean, because you left it early, didn't you? I mean, you arrived in Abu Dhabi at the tender age of 22. Yeah. That's really that's quite young.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was a bit of a kind of roll of the dice, really. It wasn't much going on for me in the UK, probably needed a bit of change of scenery. Um, wasn't really 100% of what I was moving into, um, what the job was. I think we made a joke about it when we when we spoke recently. When I told my mum I'd got a job in Aberdambi, she thought it was somewhere in Wales. Next minute she was dropping dropping me off at Manchester Airport. Uh and yeah, and before you know it, um here I am 17 years later, um years in in the UAE, th three years back in the UK. Yeah, it's been a been a good journey so far.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it definitely has. And I remember, you know, kind of the early days in Abbott Abbey, obviously, when we were talking, and obviously I've been known you for a bit, it wasn't all sunshine and roses like like it is now. You obviously had to go through some hard parts at the start. And I think you were saying about you know your first Christmas away from home was particularly tough. Yeah. Uh you didn't you didn't end up going back to the UK, did you?

Baptism By Fire At DeVere

SPEAKER_01

I didn't have the money to go back to the UK. Um, and again, I think my mum thought I was gonna turn up on Christmas Day morning and surprise her, but I was in Albert Abbey Mall doing some Christmas shopping for for um I've been invited to my boss's house for Christmas Day, probably felt sorry for me. Um and and yeah, um never do that again anyway. Not not to my mum and not to myself, but uh no, it was uh um steep learning curve. Um some of learned a lot of the things that that are still kind of epitomizes me today, I think. Hard work, um and just trying to show up every day. Um, but yeah, it's uh it was it was a tough start to to to to be a fairer fair comment.

SPEAKER_00

Because you're throwing in it at deep end, weren't you? I mean, we've we both started our careers with DeVere, and it was very much baptism by fire, wasn't it? There was no kind of you know long training course that we had today. It was kind of you know, here's a get on with it.

SPEAKER_01

Literally, I know you you hear about it in in other podcasts or in in other kind of stories, it was literally yellow pages, notepad, no laptop, no computer provided, certainly no training of of any kind of of merit, and it was just kind of let's try and break you. I think was uh was certainly the the first three months of let's see what they're made of. No CRM, um calling clients that are already clients, it was just a bit of a bit of a free-for-all, a free-for-all. Um, I think we had a people would put a list on a whiteboard of the prospects that they were working on, and then you look at that transition now. On a Monday morning, you'd you'd have to look through people's manual list manually to see if you recognize any names, and you look at where we've transitioned to now, um with with the databases. I'd say that's one thing that is a little bit easier for people these days, um, is just the management of data and and the obviously the lead gen that Hoxton do and the marketing that that Hobson do is um is chalk and cheese from from 17 years ago. But you'd expect it to be. 17 years is is a long time for things to to improve and transition.

SPEAKER_00

I mean if we were still doing the same things as we were 17 years ago, we'd be in uh we'd be in a pretty uh pretty difficult space. Um I think it's uh yeah, I think that that obviously things adapt and move over time, but also I think you know it sounds it sounds funny as well saying it like you know, but back in my day. But I also think that you know make us the man as well. Going through that and having those difficult times and get you know, it's like it was very, very difficult then, you know, you didn't have marketing leads put on your system, you didn't have data diggers helping you acquire data to you know for you to for you to go out and call. You didn't have great telephone systems that were called based on the country where where the client is resident. It you know, it was it was very much here's a mobile phone, get on with it. But then that also taught you how to how to actually go out and do the job. Nothing was handed to you on a plate, so you had to make it yourself. And I and I think you know, as tough as it was, and I definitely wouldn't want to repeat it, and I'm sure you wouldn't. No, definitely not. It definitely helps, and you did you know you thrived in that environment as well. You know, you were top BDM uh business development manager at DeVere globally. Is it three years or four years? Two years, two years, two out of five years, yeah. Which was you know, which was some achievement in itself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't change that, and and again, I think we've spoken about this recently between ourselves as well. Is that that that opportunity that DeVere give um to so many of us, Hoxton wouldn't be where where we are today, or even here in at all if it wasn't for that initial opportunity. Um so you've all got to be grateful for that, and again, a lot of the the principles, whether it be the how how we dress, showing up on time, working late, um always trying to give it 100% every day when you turn up, has certainly been kind of ingrained in us from them early days when it wasn't as um as structured as maybe what what a role would be if somebody would came from the UK today to join Hoxton as a training wealth manager, it'd be absolutely um polar opposites, but but again, it's uh it made us made us uh I don't know what's the word. Structured no, it made us made us stronger, I guess, and and taught us some really valuable um kind of ethics.

Why Structure And Targets Matter

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. I think it definitely installs your new discipline, hard work, like, and you have to be motivated to thrive in those environments because if you're if you're not then you're you know ultimately not gonna not gonna do very well at all, are you? You know, it's it's it's like it's almost like school, isn't it? Kind of that's how I described the view, which was you go and you were told you have to be here at this time, you must do this at this place, yeah. But that ingrains routine and discipline into you as well. Well, you didn't have a choice, so you had to do it, almost like the army kind of thing, and then you transition over to other businesses, and this is sometimes where we see people fall down, and you've obviously experienced both sides of the fender. So David's super structured, Holburn wasn't as structured. Um, and you know, sometimes people thrive in that unstructured environment, and sometimes well, I find that I really need a structured environment, which is obviously what we've tried to create at Hoxton, which is kind of a bit of a best of hopefully both worlds between the two, taking some structure and taking some um more um lenient, yeah, lenience, and maybe not being as strict and uh you know some of the old uh uh old school kind of rules, but they you know they work and they they all have their own place. Um so you know, how did the two experiences compare?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's I think that as I kind of came over to Hoxton. That I I'd kind of really gone from from one extreme to the other, and and and if anything, uh like well, people say it's only um a mistake if you if you don't learn from it. And I certainly learned from that I needed that structure, I need to that accountability. Um I think as I've got a little bit older, a little bit, um I can kind of I don't need that kind of hard stick as much as as maybe I did when I was 22. Um but I've tried the where it was more of a kind of uh lecture your own devices at Holburn, and that's no criticism of them. Um look, it was a it was a good learning curve. I learned, I tried managing an office there. I set up Hubon Abadaby, um, and I kind of learned that management wasn't for me, so that was a kind of a positive that came out of that. Um certainly back then it wasn't, but also learned that just being left to my own devices, are you in the office, are you not in the office? Are you gonna what's your targets for this month, quarter, year, what's your goals, where do you want to get to? And not really having that structure or that accountability on a monthly basis that I now have with with you and meetings with Jake. Um yeah, it's it's it taught me that I really need that that somebody above me to um to be answerable to. And I've no shame in no shame in in admitting that. Um it's it's and again, like you you mentioned earlier on in the introduction, the the numbers speak for themselves, so it's something tried something, didn't work, check, knew, knew there was a change that needs to be made, made it, and now now benefiting from it. Well, hopefully everyone's benefiting from it.

Remote Working Without Losing Momentum

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm sure that that that is definitely the case. And it's interesting as well because now you obviously live back in the UK, so you you are still working with the international business, you're not UK domestic, as well, as we would say. So you're still working very much with the international business. Obviously, you have some UK clients that you work with as well, but I would say the bulk of your clients sit internationally, yeah. And but you are managing to do that from the UK, so you know, like you are. I know you work from home a lot, I know sometimes you go into the Liverpool office and you've built a little team out in the UK as well now that you're you know you're growing and adding to as your kind of personal business grows, but how being able to uh sit in the UK and um and still grow your business is you know it's is really cool, and it's you know, it's uh it's I suppose the tools that we have enable you to do that in terms of you know operating not in off the cloud and you know everything you can access with all of all of the technology solutions, but also that's kind of testament to yourself as well because it's not easy every day to get up and go to work if you haven't actually got to go into work, you're working from home. Yeah, I I I struggle with it.

SPEAKER_01

Um I think over over the summer because I don't come over to uh to head office here in Dubai uh as often as I would maybe January to May, whether it'd be the weather, clients, holidays, clients not around, so it doesn't make sense to to come as as frequently over the summer. Um so like getting to like August, September when I've not come here for kind of my fix of the office, the environment, um catching up with teams, a lot of the people that that um are within Hoxton I've known for 10 plus years now. Yeah, we'll class a lot of them as kind of friends. Um that really gives me like a bit of a tonic. Go back four weeks, start to tape off again, come back over another 10 days here, top myself back up. So I do struggle with it. Um it's not an ideal situation. I love being back home. People say, What are you back in Bolton and you must be nuts? Uh and it's not all not all uh weather oriented. Um, so yeah, you can't have the best of both worlds. In an ideal scenario, we'd have what we've got here in Dubai, maybe not in Bolton, but maybe in Manchester or Dubai or in Liverpool, sorry. Um but look, it is it is what it is, and it's got to try and make the best of it. I'm not gonna get my little violin out and say it's it's such a hardship, it's it's a challenge, but you do it well.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you know, like you, you know, in terms of doubling your AUM of your book, you know, it's it is obviously easier being coming into an office every day if if it's on your doorstep. And the fact is that you've made it work where it hasn't. Um but that remote working, you know, is there's certain people that can get it done, and there's certain people you just doesn't work for at all uh work for at all.

SPEAKER_01

And I think you made it work personally. Yeah. Yeah, I think well, there's other people in similar circumstances or similar situation that that might it might not have worked as well for. Um, I think one of the the main reasons, I'm not sure if we'll come on to it later on, of joining Hoxton was was to get back into that kind of groove and get back into that kind of look, I'm quite a competitive person naturally. Um, and I I think it's if if it wasn't for that, then it it wouldn't work. If I was still maybe at Holburn with that kind of structure that we've we've spoken about uh a few minutes ago, it wouldn't work. Yeah, I'd have to certainly have made a change between um between moving home and and no. Um otherwise it would just done a bit of a downward spiral, but a little bit stagnant. Um but yeah, it works, it's not ideal. Um we'll see what happens. Yeah, we shall. Maybe uh maybe there's a move back on the plants over here, we never know.

From Transactions To Ongoing Planning

SPEAKER_00

Relocation package upside. Um so you know, I think one of the other key things that I've noticed as well, obviously, you know, we talked about the accountability bit, and we'll we'll probably loop back around to that in a bit, and how key that is actually for people and especially experienced people as well. Because I think it's really easy to kind of go, I don't need it, and I, you know, I I work better without it. But actually, what we've seen is is the top performers within our uh business, the top planners who give the best advice to clients and are helping generally the bigger clients uh with their assets want that accountability, and they it's not it's kind of they've had it, probably done something different where they didn't have it, and then actually crave it. And then I think it's sometimes that when you you don't know what you don't know what you don't have, yeah. Um so you know, like if you don't have something, uh if if you've if it's always been one way, so you've always had structure, you crave that you know the grass is always greener, as you crave non-structure, and then when you have it, you're like, actually, that won't really work for me. And that's it. That's yeah, I think it's perfect. It's and the the accountability part, I think it goes through it's you know it's for it's true for clients as well. I mean, ultimately, you know, that's why clients seek financial advice, that's why people go to the gym and have a personal trainer, is to have that person sat by their side. So I don't think advisers advisors are any different. Um do you feel that the kind of accountability side has uh has helped you transition into becoming you know less transactional and more you know long-term AUM financial planning focused with your clients?

SPEAKER_01

I think the whole Hoxton model, I think um pre-joining Hoxton, or maybe even before Hoxton was kind of formed, I'd say that there was very few people that was kind of uh fee-based, looking at that longevity, again, not being transactional and wanting to build relationships um with clients for for the long term, which is better for the certainly better, a better setup for the client, not just monetary, but from a service level perspective and and to help them achieve their goals. You speak to somebody five years ago and don't speak to them again for five another for another five years, a lot could have gone wrong then. Yeah. And sometimes that's that would happen when it was more of a transactional business, upfront commissions. Whereas now there's a need to kind of justify your existence on an annual basis for your ongoing fee. Um so I think I think that the the shift in in mindset, um, working with with people that have probably four years ahead of me of with with that um shift in mindset, coming here and seeing what what what the the business model looked like and what what it could look like if I changed was was definitely uh eye-opening for me. Um so yeah, hopefully that answers your question.

Hiring A Team As An Investment

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. I mean it's it's that emphasis on service, client outcomes, and relationship longevity ultimately, because that's you know, you build up a uh income as a planner that builds around you consistently delivering good long-term outcomes for your clients. Because if you're not, then you you don't have them and you lose that income. As a planner, you take less up front, but hopefully the relationship gathers more momentum as you go through and you look after more of their assets. So it's that it definitely you know is is the right way. And we saw that you know with the way that the US moved, the way the UK moved. You know, ultimately, I believe at some point it will come in over here as well in the in the Middle East, obviously not there just yet. Um but it's um it's it's definitely definitely the definitely the way forward, and obviously as you build out that client service and that team, sorry, that client service and that um you know that proposition, you need to have a team around you. And obviously what's been great to see is that you've built, you know, it's not only just Lewis Patterson anymore, it's Lewis Patterson, it's your power planner, it's your BDM, it's your admin, like there's a whole business unit to support your clients now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think look when we spoke, and it took a while to get there, and maybe it would have been better for me if I'd come over a little bit sooner. But when we spoke and we looked at what other people were doing, yourself included, there was a blueprint that you kind of said, look, if you follow this, um we can get you back on track, get you where you want to be. I wouldn't say I was like miles off track, but I'd certainly lost a bit of traction of where I wanted to be. Um obviously I've got my own goals of what I want to achieve. When you said, Okay, well let's come in. This is what I've done, this is what Mo's done, Tommy's done, uh, Kaz, various other senior guys within the company, and and it's worked, it's tried and tested. Um I would have been a fool to come in and not not try to follow that and build that. And and maybe in the early stages it was more seen as a cut. You could see it two ways, couldn't it? You could see it as either a cost or you could see it as an investment. And I think initially, I was like, What's I've got to pay this extra salary, this extra salary, this extra salary, but I've still only got this level of assets under management or this number of clients, but obviously then that has a positive impact on them numbers, and that's when it does become more of an investment. And and again, yeah, the numbers now speak for themselves. Not quite where I want to be, but we're we're well on track for being where uh where we thought we'd be after being here three years. So I don't think you ever will be where you want to be where you maybe.

SPEAKER_00

And that's what drives you unless I own Bolton that watch it out, stranger things have happened. Um that's the football club, not the talent. Entrepreneurial mindset, though, you know, like that. You do in you do embody that and you are you know constantly thinking in new ways and new ideas and you know how to progress it as well. And ultimately, you know, the the the blueprint or the plan that we we you know we gave or we provided is not you know is not our blueprint or plan. I mean that's just how how you grow that business out, and you know, there's many other people before us that have done it. Um but it's you know it's that intrapreneurial mindset as we call it. It's like you are operating as your own mini business. Within our bigger business, to you know, and we are essentially what we've got is a platform that's designed to try and encourage people like you to grow your business and to you know do all the great things that you're capable of, and you know, an ambitious person like yourself wants to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that's that is again is a is another thing that I really liked about Hoxton. It is lots of mini businesses within one larger business, but sometimes you might think that could be kind of counterproductive from a competition point of view, from a maybe jealousy point of view, but like the level of help that you can get from different people, obviously, we're doing advice in so many different jurisdictions. Um, there's specialists in in who might be a little bit stronger on the US side, Australia side, European side, even though it is lots of mini businesses, the the kind of help, support, technical support that you can get from from other maybe teams that might be seen as competitors within the within the company is uh has been a massive help for me. The technical group that we have on on uh on the Teams chat, any questions, queries, throw it in there. Somebody will always try to answer, um, which you just don't get if you're just podding along, sat at home, feeling sorry for yourself, the world's against you. Um it's it's definitely uh um that that part of the business has been good because you still feel like you don't feel like you're fully employed and that you're you've got somebody to answer to 40 hours a week, but maybe that one hour a month where you are answerable to somebody, it that's what you um that what keeps you on your toes that little bit more.

Serving Clients Across Jurisdictions

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. I think that ultimately it's um yeah, it's the accountability part is is is massive and it helps, but um yeah, you uh you taking it on yourself and being an entrepreneur and having an entrepreneurial mindset is what pushes it forward. So you can take a horse to water but you can't teach it to drink, you know. And operating across multiple different jurisdictions as well is um is is part, you know, it's part of it because you've obviously got quite a unique for someone who's in the UK providing financial advice, with most of your clients actually residing outside of the UK, more and more actually are residing in the UK now as well, aren't they? You're doing more and more kind of UK style business. And actually, I think as a as a client, I would probably like that. The fact that my client my advisor is multi-jurisdictional and that does not it's not just solely UK focused, obviously has a very good understanding of the UK, but also gets what it's like in Dubai, also gets what it's like in Europe. How do you find that managing clients across different jurisdictions and having the ability to do that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's an obviously an ever changing changing landscape, isn't it? Whether that be kind of tax changes, um kind of wider kind of sentiment towards one country with obviously don't really like to go on about it too much, but obviously all the headlines that there's I don't know, a a millionaire leaving the UK every 45 minutes. Yeah. I've actually done two, three cases this year where people are moving back to the UK, but that that doesn't that doesn't sell newspapers, um doesn't make the headlines, so it's it's ever-changing. Um, but again, I I think I I mentioned it a few minutes ago with with kind of the technical support. You you can't be an expert in every single area of the business or every single country, uh, even if it's EU, there's still going to be different rules within the EU. Um, so again, leaning on the technical support that we've got. Um, obviously, Matt uh Matt Tailford, somebody I've worked with for probably probably 15 years, I think was a great acquisition for the company uh to have him in in-house. He's probably sick of the sick of getting messages and emails from me with different cases and different looking at different solutions. But again, having that internal resource that you can just go to, lean on, he's always always available. I don't know how he is because there's obviously 60-70 advisors within the company. Um, so I think it's trying to not be a jack of all trades, master of none, but going out and finding the right advice or or or reaffirming the advice or getting a second opinion on the advice, making sure what you're doing is the right thing, um, and telling clients that. I think sometimes rather than fudge your way through it and yeah, I know what the IHT laws are in in Greece off the top of my head, saying well, we'll present that to you in the next meeting, of and you can then make an informed decision of which structure you want to look at moving forward. So, yeah, it's it's just not trying to be a know-it-all, but but going away and whether it's to the tax panel, to Matt, um product providers, just to make sure that we are delivering the right advice. Um, on the on the UK side of things, I think you're right. I think people do actually like the fact that I've lived overseas and gone back to the UK. So then a couple of clients that I that I've worked with this year, it's a well-trodden path, isn't it? They it's something I've gone through myself, probably maybe could have done a bit more planning myself. And I admit that look, it's whether it was from finance financially, I probably should have taken some of the advice that I can give my clients, but maybe wasn't in the financial position to do that at the time. So, yeah, I think they do quite like the fact that I've lived overseas and transitioning back um because it's a bit more relatable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, rather than rather than talking hypothetically, it's something that I couldn't um relate to to my own circumstances, and then obviously tailor that to theirs.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, definitely. And look, you are multi-licensed as well. You're licensed to give advice in the Middle East, you're licensed to give advice in the UK, licensed to give advice in Europe. So you've actually taken it upon yourself to get qualified in the jurisdictions that you want to give advice, and we've provided you with the regulatory licence for you to, you know, bolt yourself into them and uh and be able to give that in a in a in a proper manner. Um, you know, you you embody really what a true multi-jurisdictional advisor is and can be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like you said, the the tools that we've got, it's it's one of the the the licenses that we can now lean on. We right at the start of today's kind of chat, we we spoke about having a dialing system that could call internationally. We didn't call internationally. No. We called Abdabbe and that was it. Yeah, Abdhabi wasn't the place that it is today. It was pre-the-on in Man City, people may not have even known where it was on a map, certainly didn't know uh any more than than it being probably in the Middle East, and that was it. It was it was Abu Dabbee. There was no do business in um in the Europe, US, Australia. Um, it was purely a city.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And um yeah, now you've got the ability to really give advice wherever you want globally. Um so a client's you've not got to then cut ties with that client. So if I had a client that moved to I don't know, Spain, um, and Hoxton didn't have that ability to continue to service them clients. I've got to go and replace that client just to just stand still from an AUM perspective.

Trust Built Through Personal Relationships

SPEAKER_00

And they've got an and they've lose their advisor, so you lose the client, but also they lose the advisor, they lose the trust they've built up, they lose the you know, the relationship that you've got. Because you know, that's another thing as well, that you are super friendly with a lot of your clients, aren't you? As well, like you you have a good relationship with them, it isn't just typically just the client-client relationship.

SPEAKER_01

No, very few, I'd say, are client-client relationship. Um, I don't think that's because of a lot of my clients are no quite long standing. Um, I try just to be personal, I try adding a bit of humour where possible. It's not got to all be spreadsheets and what's the return and what's inflation and and um can IHC calculations. So I do try to kind of a bit more of a personal touch, I'd say, is is one of the um one of the things that I try to bring to to the to the role, socialise with clients, take clients for dinners, actually enjoy that. I think you have a much better working relationship if you've had a a beer or took met their wife or took the gone to the kids' wedding. Um and and again it's personal, is personal, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That personal touch. Personal touches, personal touch is key. Do you think that's helped you? Obviously, you were doing that before, but now with the kind of more AUM focus, Louis said before, you doubled your assets under management. So all those factors combined the fact that you're really personal with your clients and you get on well with them, the fact that you are qualified across multiple jurisdictions and can give advice across multiple jurisdictions, the fact that a lot of people are more internationally focused as well. That to me kind of creates this kind of perfect pot, which is actually, I've now got an advisor that I can work with, or I'm offering the service as an advisor to these people, and your AUM has doubled over three years. I mean, that's pretty remarkable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think I've gone and phoned the clients, a lot of my clients are kind of better fit for their longer circumstances with the change, so Hoxton. Um, a lot of companies in in the offshore market are not quite as committed to to the UK market as maybe Hoxton are. Um I know I went through my client list now, maybe a few of them have maybe changed their plans for who are gonna return to the UK, and it'd be a it'd be a large percentage of my assets under management. And at Holburn, I didn't have a solution. I don't know what I would have done. And when you've worked with these clients 10, 12 years, and all of a sudden you've got to say, sorry, I work for Holburn, we're not regulated in the UK, can't can no longer service you, um, it would have been a bit of a problem, it would have been an awkward conversation. It probably I would have then had to go and find a solution. So I've kind of looked a little bit um in advance of that and and thought, okay, well I need to find a company that is committed to the UK, and not just the UK, EU um, which I'd say a large percentage of my clients will retire to to either the EU or or the UK, finding somebody that is gonna commit to them jurisdictions and and make sure that we can continue that relationship. So, yeah, I think that's been a it's been a good fit for for the clients in enjoying Hoxton. I think again you look at what's changed since I've been here in just under three years, direct licence, EU DIFC expanded into Asia. So it'd be clients would have to be going to some some far out their country, no, for us not to be able to continue the relationship.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's important as well, like you said, for the client point of view, knowing that if they do go back to the UK that you can still service them, but also I think it adds that layer of credibility as well. The fact that you are in the UK, you are giving advice to UK clients already. It's not kind of like, well, we you know, I can probably put you in touch with someone back there in our business, it's actually you delivering that advice as well. And like we know that you know there's three things that a client looks for typically. They look at firstly, it's the advice they come into contact with, like that's your first point of contact. So that has to be the first test that you pass in a relationship. The second thing is obviously the business. If the business doesn't have a great reputation andor is not licensed or regulating the areas that you work with then, that's clearly a problem. And then obviously the last is mainly the custodian of the assets, where your assets sit, who they're looked after, you know, that that matters. A lot of the custodians we use are big, or most pretty much all of them are very big, multi-billion dollar companies or multi-billion of assets uh under management. As a business, I'd like to think that we've provided that framework and try and be positive with our outlook and get regulated in there. And you, as the advisor, having that UK set of qualifications, being the personal person you are has obviously massively helped you, you know, take on more and do more going forward.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think I think my existing clients will always be the most important part of my business, and I think I think most advisors would would would agree with that. Um, but obviously you want to grow and you don't want to become stagnant, um, and you've got to have that kind of something to aim for that and that growth mindset. So um that's always going to come first and foremost. So as long as that I can continue them relationships and and kind of finish the the work with them with them clients. We've obviously mapped out where they want to be, when they want to be there, and what they want to have when they get there. Um I want to make sure that I'm on as much of that journey for for as long as possible. Um, and again, like you've mapped out there, um, I think we're we're we're we can firmly say that Hoxton are doing all they can to make sure that that's that's going to be possible.

Collaboration Without Egos

SPEAKER_00

Definitely. And it is that growth mindset, like as we said, it's it's not to sit there and sit in your own box and in your own lane, it's like to be encouraged and to be around other people that are going down that route and that do want to keep continuing growing. Because I feel that pushes you as well. It's like a right, you know, we were talking before, and you made, you know, you made uh observation before where it was kind of you know, you it's not you're pitted one against another, and you know, it's you it's like a zero-sum game. Yeah, um, it you know, you win or I I I win, we don't win together. Actually, that's completely untrue because if I'm doing really well, then that should encourage you to do really well, and if Mo's doing really well, then that encourages you and shows you what the art of the possible is. And it's not just keeping those secrets to yourself, it's making sure that others within the business uh you know have have the ability to learn what other people are doing, and it's an open forum. Because at the end of the day, I might be doing something that you aren't, but highly likely you're doing something that I'm not, and I can learn from that as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think a good example of that earlier this year. I was over on a trip and um I saw that Ravi was Rabbi Ravi was presenting something, um, was working off a slightly different slide deck. I think he'd put some extra slides together, jumps off the call, messaged him on Teams, or asked his power planner, can you share them slides? Five minutes late, you've got those slides, and and again, yeah, you can kind of really help and support each other. I don't think there's anybody within the office. I think one of your key things is no egos, and yeah, and I think a key part of that is making sure that everybody's willing to help each other. Um, I've asked people that might have only been doing the job a year how they're doing something. People come up to me when I'm over, how are you doing this? What do you do differently? How can we do more of what you're doing? And always kind of that that willing to help. Might not manage direct management, might not have been for me, which I think is is something that um that that that we've kind of already covered, but still having that be willing to to help people as much or as often as as they ask for it. But I think and that but I think that's certainly company-wide, not just not just the way that I want to work. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

I mean you've been doing it for 17 years, so there's a hell of a lot of um there's a hell of a lot of things that you've seen and a hell of a lot of experience that you can pass on to the to the guys that are you know that are doing it at the moment. And I know when you do come over, they do love spending time with you, you know, speaking, which is great as well. You know, the fact that you're open to do it, you're not kind of, well, I'm only open for a week or two, you know, I'm staying in my own box. Um, you know, so that's super cool as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's crazy when you think about it. Because what when I was 22 starting out looking at a 40-year-old or 39-year-old advisor, I think, oh god, he's a bit of a dinosaur, and now I'm that dinosaur. I think I was thinking about it um over the last couple of days. Like, must be one of the the older advisors. I think a lot of us are quite similar ages, but um, but still only 39. So you're only 39, you're not you're not 50, you might let's get it. When you keep referring to 17 years, I think, geez. 39-year-old footballer, you'd be like, okay, don't sign him as past it.

SPEAKER_00

You're definitely not past it, mate. The best is the best is yet to come. Definitely. And so, you know, you kind of you we talked about obviously you being there for others, but you know, within the business, hopefully, you know, you've you've seen support as well as as you've come over. How have you found that support network, you know, like so Jake and having meetings with with him? Obviously, I try and and be there as much as I can for you as well. But like, how how has that gone?

SPEAKER_01

I think like the the four what is the four pillars, five pillars of of people that you can go to in in different departments is that have been here now for quite a long period of time, is is really what's built built Hoxton. Um Jake on the kind of director of um director of advice, yeah, of advice, and then Charlie from kind of ops and um supported by Louis, uh Matt on the technical side of things, Paul on the on the compliant side of things, it's it's been built by some people with pretty solid CVs around them. Um so yeah, you you've always got that forum to go to. If you've got a complaint, whether it be with accounts or with it or a gripe or query with something, if you need something on the technical side of things, which we've already covered off, it's been it's been a really good. I I I personally believe it's one of the main reasons why Hobson's growing at the rate that it is. Um obviously being out a little bit out of sight, out of mind, it sometimes causes a bit more problems. I'm in the UK, but knowing that that you can just pick up the phone and and jump on a call with any any other kind of management team has been uh has been a good been a good help initiatively.

SPEAKER_00

And it's not smooth sailing all the time, like there's nothing nothing in life ever is you know, oh it's absolutely amazing, and you know, there will always be problems, there will always be issues, but I think you know the fact, and as you've said to me before, the fact that if there are issues, there's someone there to help uh and try and resolve it, and they might not get resolved tomorrow, but at least you know that they're gonna be worked on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, whether it be problems or ideas or improvements that you can think and they'll be listened to, and sometimes they'll be acted upon, and sometimes they'll say, Yeah, but we we don't really want to do it that way. As long as you know you're being listened to, um it's it's is is key, I think. Um but yeah, like I say, certain areas of the business that probably weren't where they needed to be when I first joined, I think this year's probably been probably almost kind of seamless on that front. So again, as as Hobson has grown, it can't have the back office of this size when we're only at this size. You can't do it, you can't kind of run before you can walk. So as the company's grown, the departments grow with it, and and issues tight tend to get dealt with um a lot more seamlessly these days. Uh, but yeah, it's definitely not been playing sailing. I'm not gonna sit here and say there's not been any issues. Um, and if there's a company out there that that doesn't they're telling you what what they want you to hear, yeah, basically.

The Dubai Office Effect

SPEAKER_00

And that's the key, isn't it? And I think the other thing is is hopefully ball's been truthful with you. You know, there's no kind of wall trying to get pulled over people's eyes or promise one thing and it doesn't happen, which is obviously what we see a lot of with with some other businesses too, um, is promising the world and not delivering. So, you know, I'd like to think that we don't get it right all the time, but where we don't, we try and fix it and try and make it as as good as possible. When you come over to the UAE, what you know, what is it like working in this office?

SPEAKER_01

I'm normally quite involved on this, especially after after a couple of pints. I think like in the UK, like we've already mentioned, very rarely would I be doing 12, 14 hour days in the UK, maybe 7, 8. Okay. Uh and that's just because, like I say, that that that motivation side of things. Here in the office, I wouldn't say I'm the first in the office, I'd have to be here pretty early to get here before you. Um, but yeah, it's just I I I left the office last night at about half seven, and as I was walking out, I kind of looked back into the office and it was still 10-15 people here, I think it was about half seven, I can't remember. Um, and you think you're getting in the lift and you think it almost felt a little bit guilty for leaving at half seven. Yeah. Half seven back in the UK, I've had my tea, uh, what's the chase, uh, put the kids to bed. Um, so yeah, it's just it it certainly gets a lot more out of you. Um you sat around and you kind of kind of look at going from task to task, and you end up, I don't know, doing something that's not work-related, and you look around and you can see half the officer on calls or prepping reports or doing what they should be doing. You're like, I'm here for a reason, I'm not here to be sat on Instagram or checking my fantasy Premier League teammates. So it really just gets that that little bit more out of you, or a lot more out of you if in my circumstances, and like I've said earlier as well, a lot of the people um within Hoxton are people that I'd probably socialise with out of out of work, yeah, would probably be friends with them back home, like-minded people. Um, and I think that creates a good atmosphere as well. There's a a good a good group of lads that are all very, very similar, yeah. Um as as we've recently found out, and yeah, I think it just creates a good atmosphere, a good buzz. And you certainly don't want to be kind of bottom of the pile from kind of an ego point of view, like in a good way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so so yeah, I think if if you didn't have that personal relationship with any of the people in the company, I don't think it'd give you as much drive, but you certainly don't want to be going the one that goes to the awards, and you're the one that doesn't get an award, or you're not recognised. You want to, you all want to be kind of you all want to each other to be doing well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um but you still want to be handful as well. Of course, uh, I think Mikel Arteta calls it collaboration. I mean that's probably a horrible word, but it's not actually like you collaborate, but it's also a lot of competition, and you and you know, you you work together to get to get the best outcomes. Um and again, I think it's it's you know, testament to you as well, the fact that you're not in the office all the time, but yeah, when you're here it feels like you're all you're you always here, you know, like it's kind of like that. It's like one of your best mates, isn't it? You know, when you don't see him for for a while and then when they're in, it's like it's just you pick it up as normal.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like rocking a hard place for me, really. It's like when I packing up, leaving missus and the kids to come here for ten days, it's all Sounds a lot more glamorous than what it is, but it's uh a lot of time in the hotel on your own. Again, it's that that's that's my decision, it's not it's not a forced um situation. Um, but then when I'm so coming up from the UK, I always feel a bit bit down. No, I'm not really motivated to get here after being in the office for a day. See the benefits of it, and then it's just kind of count down to going home. And then at the same time, when I'm when I'm here, can't wait to get home. So it is really a rockin' hard place. Just gotta make it work. Luckily, um my wife manned the fort quite well for me. She probably enjoys a bit of peace and quiet when I'm uh when I'm away, but uh yeah, we'll see what happens. It's um I'd love to be here Monday to Friday and back home for for the weekends, but um be quite expensive, not good for my carbon footprint.

Scaling Ambition Without Dropping Service

SPEAKER_00

Not good for your carbon footprint or your uh or your sleep pattern, that's for sure. And your your ambitions, you know, what you want to do, what you want to achieve over the next few years, like what is the next what does the next five years look for like for Lewis?

SPEAKER_01

I think to try and maintain what I've kind of the the track that I'm on now. Um it'd be quite easy to maybe get a bit comfortable again, which I think I've been maybe been guilty of in in previous roles, but that was when I was a BDM, maybe took my foot off the gasco, got comfortable. Um when I first stepped up as an advisor, got into a good position, got comfortable, kind of plateaued a little bit. I certainly don't want that to happen. I don't think I'll be allowed for that to happen. No. Um again, the stat system that we've got here would would pick that up in a in a heartbeat. Um, I think they know more about myself than than than I do. Um, but yeah, I think it's just to keep on this trajectory, keep doing what I'm doing, hit the goals and targets, which I think we we we both set out when I joined Hoxton. And then who knows maybe with in time would I like to to um have another go at management? Who knows? But I think at this this time I'm happy managing my team. That's going to need to expand as well internally. Um, one thing I won't compromise is kind of service levels for clients. Yeah. So maybe the next role will be kind of a junior advisor to work between me and Matthew, my parapartner.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um just to make sure we can maintain the service levels, um, potentially even increase them with with more investment, but at the same time giving me the ability to scale as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, look, there's there's lots of um there's there's there's lots of opportunities available for you, isn't there? And I think that again, as I said, coming over just yourself, then to building out that mini team underneath you, to you know, continuing to expand and grow that team and your client base and the services that you provide and all the rest of the stuff is amazing. And then, yeah, I mean management, we've talked about it many at many times, haven't we? And whether that's something that you uh that you want to do. It is different as well, isn't it? Like for advice, like actually being a manager and being an advisor is two different things. Manager is more HR-related, kind of picking people up and and and trying to uh trying to push them forward. Whereas advisor, obviously, you're very focused on solving problems, giving great advice, providing great service to your clients, and you know, truly embodying what it takes to help clients, you know, you change people's lives on that side of it, and it's like it's very difficult to do both well, I found. Yeah.

Financial Plans Must Stay Agile

SPEAKER_01

No, I I picked up on something you said then with with kind of changing lives, that's that is the the motivation, that is what gets you out. You can talk about like internal competition, wanting to achieve kind of personal goals, but the the key motivation out of all of this is having that positive impact on from that very first meeting with that client, looking back 10 years later saying, Look at where we've got together. Because look, it takes a lot of input and and commitment and sacrifice from the client side of things, and when clients are willing to do that part, then obviously you're you you almost work that little bit harder for that client as well. Um, and that's what I've I've really taken from from the job is is that that talking about the management side, yeah, it'd be great to manage a team and help advisors get up off the ground. But I think my my mindset, my skill set, my wins come more from that that client side of things of of kind of starting the process, managing the process and getting them to to where we've agreed we're gonna get them to, yeah, with with obviously commitment on both sides.

SPEAKER_00

And it's building out that plan, isn't it? Because it's more and more what we're getting into, obviously, with the technology and the tools that we have around us. But it's like again, it's not like, well, you give us your money, we'll make it grow by five to six percent plan and we'll give it back. It's actually like, what is that money for? How are you gonna use it? Is it gonna be enough when you retire? You know, all the cash flow stuff that I know you do with your clients and building out proper, you know, proper plans, and it doesn't have to be you know a 500-page report, but it's like you said, it's each year going forward. And I think a lot of the times people kind of get you know, they misunderstand actually what a plan is because a plan changes, like a good financial plan will not be the same forever. It's got to be agile, it has to change like every year, like things that are way out of our control, what the markets do, what happens to inflation, what happens with interest rates, all of that stuff we have no control over, so that impacts on your plans, and people's lives change as well. I mean, you moved out here, then moved back. A lot of clients will do that. You know, we all we've you know, you've got you know, two children, who knows, you know, might be more later down the line as well. So, you know, it's like you all these things happen to all of us, and life constantly evolves, so therefore your plans need to evolve and change as you go forward.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think having an advisor, look, some of you might say, okay, I know I'm set, I'm retired at 55, okay, I'm self-managing everything, I'm all good, but they don't actually know what the end goal looks like, and especially when you start to throw curveballs into that, like you just mentioned. And again, we we mentioned quite personal changes there, but from a regulatory standpoint, um look, the changes that have gone on in the last six months within the UK have been massive. But I think that creates an opportunity for us. If there was never any changes to rules, legislation, pensions, domicile, inheritance tax, almost kind of people feel that they can probably just get away with knowing this, that they feel like they know the system. Yeah. When there's massive, massive changes, it creates a massive influx of people who then need to speak to us. And there's a lot of people who probably need a financial advisor, might go through life without never actually taking one, or going as far as engaging with an advisor. The numbers speak for themselves. We know how many advisors there are, we know how many clients you can manage, we know the population of a country. There's a lot of people that aren't ever going to take advice, but when there's changes, that really does um get people's attention, creates a bit of natural fear. People don't like change. Um, myself being included, I think it's a northern thing. Um that's why it took me so long to move over to Hoxton, I think. But I think um the more changes there are, or as there's continues to be significant changes to tax regimes, it's gonna um it's gonna really transpire into people more people needing our advice.

Closing Thoughts And Round Two

SPEAKER_00

100%. And I think that ultimately having people that are there like your good self that you know are qualified across multiple jurisdictions, do get it from both sides of the fence. Um, you know, means a lot and make sure the clients get that seamless advice and ultimately you help change their life for the in the positive way that you know they they employ us for and they employ you for to do. Yep. Well, that's it for today, I think. I think we'll probably have a round two at some point in the future with uh with Lewis, but I hope you enjoyed it. Uh Lewis Patterson's story has been very, very interesting so far. I'm really keen to see what the next 17 years uh go, and I'm sure we won't have to wait another 17 years for another podcast. We'll get him back for round two next year and go from there. Thanks very much, thank you very much.