Building Trust Over Transactions as an International Financial Planner | with Bilal Mughal

In this episode of Hoxton Life, Jacob Hall sits down with Bilal Mughal, an international financial planner with more than 17 years of experience helping clients across the UK, Europe and the Middle East.

Bilal shares how a decision to move overseas completely changed the direction of his career, why he believes financial planning is ultimately a people business, and how building long-term relationships has shaped the way he advises clients today.

The conversation explores how international financial planning has evolved over the last two decades, why trust matters more than ever, and what advisers need to do to build a business that lasts. 

In this episode, Jacob and Bilal discuss:

• Why moving into international financial planning changed Bilal's outlook and helped shape a 17-year career built around long-term client relationships.
• How trust, service and genuine relationships have replaced transactional advice as the foundation of a successful financial planning business.
• The reality of working with internationally mobile clients, managing multiple jurisdictions and coordinating complex cross-border financial planning.
• Why collaboration, technology and investment in people have transformed the client experience within modern financial planning firms.
• The growing opportunity for Sharia-compliant investing and why ethical investing is becoming increasingly important for clients around the world.

Whether you're already working in financial planning, thinking about building an international career, or simply interested in what great client relationships really look like, this episode offers an honest insight into the profession from someone who has spent nearly two decades helping clients navigate complex financial decisions.

🎧 Listen to the full episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or you can watch the full conversation on our Hoxton Life YouTube channel.

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Transcript

Trust Over Transactions

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I wouldn't say I'm a transactional type of advisor. I do want to get to know you and you know get under the bonnet and build a solid relationship.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome back to another episode of Hoxton Life. My name is Jacob Hall. Today we're really lucky. We've got Bill Al Mughal joining us.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

So we went traveling, saw the world, saw that it was a much bigger place than Manchester. And I guess when I came back, it was uh a case of there's got to be more to it than this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

And one by one, they said, Oh, I've decided we're not going to proceed with you, we're gonna go with Bill Al. And then it was again Bill Al. And it was like it felt like every client I spoke to, you seem to be signing up.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Because what we do, it's um a lot of responsibility. You're dealing with people's wealth, their livelihoods. There's so much emotional intelligence at that point as well. It just is the human touch, right? It's not all sunshine and roses, is it? You have your good days, you have your bad days, you have your highs, you have your lows. But it's about kind of just taking that on board and uh effectively just just it's how you grow. But you know, the reality is that I'm I'm living the dream. You know, it is exactly what it was cracked up to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So, welcome back to another episode of Hoxton Life. Uh, my name is Jacob Hall. I'm uh one of the advice managers here at Hoxton today. We're really lucky we've got Bilal Mughal joining us. Bilal has been with us now for just over a year. Um, Bilal's also been working internationally and helping clients from the UK and and across the GCC and other regions for coming on for 17 years, I believe. Has a really strong bank of clients, has built up great relationships with clients. We're going to talk about his journey today and how he got to to where he is and key learnings he's had along the way, and then hopefully, if we've got time, we'll get on to a bit more about what's next for Bill Al in the next three to five years. So, Bill Al, over to you. Um if you'd like to give us a bit of an introduction about yourself and then we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, well, a little bit about me, like Jake said, I've uh well, I've been here well overseas in the international advisory space for 17 and a half years now. So it's uh it's gone extremely quick, you know. Um it's been a journey, you know, a good one. I was effectively sold a dream. Yeah. And but you know, the reality is that I'm I'm living the dream. You know, it is exactly what it was cracked up to be. Um, and the story goes back basically.

From Manchester To Moving Overseas

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I was working in a bank, and you know, I realised at that point that okay, I think this uh this industry is for me, the financial services industry, and you know, you can go off so many different paths. There was the mortgage advising, then it was the financial advice, and um I thought, you know what, I'll give I'll give that a shot. But before that, you know, I was the guy that was never gonna leave Manchester, you know. Through and through. 100%. You know, I was I was just wanted to be in Manchester. I thought I'd get a job in Manchester, stay there, you know, retire there, but then lo and behold, um, you know, I went travelling. So went travelling, saw the world, saw that I was a much bigger place than Manchester. And I guess when I came back, it was uh a case of there's got to be more to it than this, you know. So um it was actually my wife, so you know, she got the bug as well. We thought let's move overseas. Um and she applied for a role for financial advisory program. And uh I was like, okay, let's go. So we both actually went together. So um that that went this way, she went in for an interview, I went in for an interview, I came out, she came out, and she was like, I don't want to do this. And I was like, Well, I absolutely do.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Oh wow, so she led the led the charge, and then you ended up taking the job and she didn't.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, absolutely. So, and as it turns out, yeah, so 17 and a half years, um, you know, I've been I lived in the Middle East for a good 12 years here in Dubai, and um, you know, now I've been working in Europe, living in Europe with the family, which has given me a totally different perspective. Um, but yeah, you know, that's that's kind of it, and I guess um here we are now at Hoxton.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah,

The Pull Of International Advice

SPEAKER_01 4:20

awesome. So you moved over to the Middle East. Obviously, you said that when you went in to look for that role, it stood out to you. Um what what were the things that when you were looking at that, and then you thought, you know what, this is for me. What what initially attracted you to to working internationally and the financial planning side of it?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I think it was the um the the pace of the international space. Um I felt like you know, the the drive and the enthusiasm towards it when I came over and you know, I got I was new into the industry, and you know, effectively it was a very fast-paced environment. So with that, you've got to really move with it. And I guess it separates people, and you kind of see right well it separates the men from the boys back then.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

You know, it's we we talked about this on podcast before how it's changed so much from when I started 13 years ago, you know, the the difference now to the young guys coming into what I came into, and you started even before me. I mean, you know, we don't have to shy around that. It was a bit of a baptism of fire, I would say. Absolutely. It was, and it was, it was tough, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, it was, and I think but the lessons I learnt then, you know, they still kind of guide me through um you know the profession now as well. So um, you know, forge steel, I guess. Yeah. Um so yeah, so I guess it was that, and also the fact that it's the industry itself, you know, what it kind of brings and the the the job that you're doing, like you know the element of being an IFA is you know, you you're effectively you're running your own business within a business. So, you know, that element really, really kind of stood out to me, and you know, I was um because it instills that entrepreneurial spirit, right? Um however, you've still got a framework and a setup around you, you know, the firm that you're with that is there to, you know, provide and assist um to help you service your clients. So it was that, and uh I guess it's the element of working with people. You know, since I've been young, I've always been working with people. Um so it translates into this because as much as it's yes, financial services and it's investments and it's stocks and shares and the rest of it, it's about the people. Um and you know, I like I like I like to have conversations well you're like you're like this today, then you know, so so I guess it's getting to know people, you know, their their requirements, their needs, um, and offering a service where you genuinely feel like okay, you're you're you're helping people here. Um because what we do it's um it comes with a ro well a lot of responsibility. You know, you you're dealing with people's wealth, their their livelihoods. So again, I think having that responsibility and then you know working in a respected field, um, it was definitely a good career choice.

Fee-Based Advice And Client Trust

SPEAKER_01 7:27

It's funny that you go just go back to that really. So entrepreneurial is obviously something that it's a trait that works for a lot of people that work in this profession because people do want their own, they want to be doing their own thing, but I think I've seen it happen in different ways. And if you're entrepreneurial in a company that doesn't give you the framework, that can be a bit of a problem. So it's more like an entrepreneur, so you're like an entrepreneur inside a company which allows you to give you the growth to to grow, yeah. And the relationship side of it, I mean the the positive side of financial planning and financial services in the GCC is that the the the name and the brand has got better, so you know, back then it was a bit tougher, so it was so much more relationship-fed. Absolutely. I mean, I think we joked about this before, but when I remember when you joined well before you joined the business, when I was working for another company, I was in business development. I remember speaking to like a lot of people at the time that used to work in Shell and Oil and Gas, and I was speaking to them and was booking them in with a finance planner I was working for, and one by one they said, Oh, I've decided we're not going to proceed with you, we're gonna go with Bill Al. And then it was again Bill Al. And it was like it felt like you every client I spoke to, you seem to be signing up because but you transitioned quite heavily early on, didn't you? So you went very relationship-led and very UK model, fee-based, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, it's because I guess you know, I I have had the benefit of working with different firms along the way, and I guess you know, you go and you see, well, this is what was working there, that's what I felt wasn't. You go to another, and then they add a different element. So, you know, I think it's just important to kind of take away as many positives as you can, and you know, whatever the negatives are, you tend to just discard them right. Um, and then gradually that evolution in me was you know, I got to a point where it was like, right, okay, you know, I think this market will mature, but if you can mature before it and be, you know, ahead of the curve, then that's only gonna suit you. So that was the approach that I took. Um, because you know, I started to find that I would go and see clients, and then the only sticking point would be the way that we would charge in the international space. So, you know, method to the madness, I thought, well, I'm I'm effectively losing clients and not taking these clients on who have showed a requirement for a need, yeah. Um, but I'm not able to service that now because of the fact that we charge differently, right? Yeah, so at that point it was um it was look, it was a it was a tough decision, um, because at the time, you know, you had competitors doing all sorts, and um you know, you kind of just go with the flow. Yeah, um but then I thought it was a it was a decision that was worthwhile and again it worked, it absolutely worked. And if you look now and hence coming to Hoxton, it's exactly how the Hoxton model works fee-based, you know, adding value, but you can still make an honest living out of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

You've got to get paid for what you do, right? But it's about I think the biggest transition from 10-15 years ago is people would weren't happy to talk about how much they charged and all those sorts of things, and it was always built into the product and all that really years ago. You know, people don't mind paying fees when they know what they're paying for. You know, if I go to get my car serviced, I want to know what it's gonna cost me and all those sorts of things. Absolutely, yeah. And you know the other thing, but you when you came on board, I remember looking at you know, you were bringing on a value of assets, and I was looking, God, there's gonna have to be on board a lot of clients. And then when you sent through your clients and we started going through, it was like, wow, like you know, the average size of your client is large, and that's because of that relationship led. Right in saying you've had a lot of your clients now for 10 years plus.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, again, I think that's another thing, it's the relationship element. Um, I wouldn't say I'm a transactional type of advisor. Uh, I do want to get to know you and you know, get under the bonnet and build a solid relationship. Um, so and I think that's kind of it was just certainly the way I wanted to work. So, you know, I went from just seeing numerous clients and high volume to really focusing, you know, on those individual key relationships and you know, nurturing those. And when you do that, then you build up trust, and this is all about trust, you know, financial planning, taking on clients' assets, it is trust. It's like the biggest, you know, that's it's the biggest thing they could effectively do, like they're passing over assets to you to put into your trust, and you've got that fiducial responsibility. So I think you know what then happens, that then you know translates and clients start referring you onto their friends, their family, their children. Um, and that was what I wanted because you know the mindset has always been long-term. Yeah, you can have your short-term wins, but ultimately the it's a long-term game, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Um if you're doing the financial planning side of it, right? I always talk about this, and it's so so important. I mean, when we're talking to clients, and quite a lot of our clients come in via leads and they'll come in through I don't know, they'll want us to look at a 401k, other ones to look at a pension, and you're talking about a specific product, and I always go in, you know, we're not here to try and make you six percent instead of five or seven instead of six. I mean, the investments are the investments, you know, where we add the value is that what you said, the planning, the structuring. I mean, I've and I know you're the same. Some of my clients won't even buy a new car without speaking to me.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

You know, they can afford it, yeah, but I actually get the most reward from showing them right, you can stop work earlier or you can get them. And as you said, when you've worked with clients for eight, nine, ten years, I've seen some of my clients' kids be born, and they're now, you know, seven, eight, nine, and I actually met the kids and I've done some little bit of work with them about saving and stuff like that. I mean, that's that's that's what can't be replaced by AI and by tech. Like, you know, everyone talks about AI taking over, but that relationship, and over time, more people will go down technology route and the AI route, but so many people want that. It's like with me, even if I'm using a car garage, I go to the same car garage because I like the guy that works there and I've got a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that that I can certainly agree with, and I think you know, from the AI perspective, all right, you know, you've got artificial intelligence, but the human intelligence is like no other. Yeah, you know, and when you're sitting with your client, there's so much emotional intelligence at that point as well, you know, really it's it's it's a different element altogether. It's this is the human touch, right? Um, so yeah, totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

And you you you're you're good with people, you know, that's that's your thing. It's like I remember when I became an advisor, so I I came I was transitioned into the advice role, and I remember going out to meet people and I just couldn't work out why nothing was moving forward. Yeah, and you don't realise that the repetition of meeting people, learning about them, their reactions, what what works, what does you know, you have a set type of client. Like I I don't do well with certain types of people, so I just don't tend to meet with them if a meeting's introduced to me, I push it somewhere else because I know what works, and you know, and then like you say, once you get those relationships, I mean you get those passive referrals, it you know, it does get easier and easier.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, and everyone's different. So, you know, sometimes I would I would get you know frustrated. You meet a client once, you meet him twice, and then it's like you know, you were conditioned earlier on in the in in the industry anyway to think that you have to meet a client once, twice, and then on the third meeting, it's uh you've got to do the paperwork, right? That's really unrealistic. Yeah, especially so my my approach was I'm in this for the long run, so you know, I was happy to nurture relationships, um, whether it took a year, and you know, there was there's been times where I've been I've been speaking to clients for you know, you might laugh, but it's three to four years, and it's taken them that long then to come on board, and then when they when they do, when they do want to actually take the step forward, it's me the approach. So I wanted to kind of create that, um, and it's what's kept me going really.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, 100%. It makes it makes it makes the job a lot more enjoyable, it makes the career a lot more enjoyable when you've got you're working with people you want to work with. I mean, I I don't know about yourself, but I'm sure it's happened when in the early days you'd you know you used to have you needed clients and you were building your business and you'd take anyone on it. And then I got to a point as time went on where I'd be like, this isn't gonna work, so there's no point, like we know it's not gonna work and kind of go

Why Hoxton And What Changed

SPEAKER_01 15:43

from there. So obviously, just over 12 months ago, came on board, we were obviously really excited and very lucky to have you join Hoxton. There's a lot of firms out there, you've worked for a few of them over the years. You and I I I actually think moving around in the early days is quite important because you learn a bit more about the profession and and the industry, yeah. But what was it that why Hoxton? You know, why did you transition to us and how's that been? And and you know, has it been everything you expected? You know, what what what what's that been like for you?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So as with the previous firm, um, and um they were going in a different direction, they were basically selling the business. Yeah, so for me that didn't really work, you know. I'm I'm not ready to retire and I didn't want to sell on clients, so um, you know, naturally I had to, you know, transition away, I guess. And I've been hearing about Hoxon for a very long time, and um there's people, partners in the business, you've got Mo, Kareem. I've worked with these guys, you know, we worked together previously, we've kind of come up together, if anything. And um when I joined this previous firm back in 2018, I think it was simultaneously. Mo, Kareem, Chris, you know, they were they all joined Hoxton. So we actually had a conversation then, you know, to to but for me to come and and and join Hoxham, but uh at that point I couldn't. I just transitioned somewhere else, transferred all my clients over. Um and I and I was happy. I was happy where I was. Um but then lo and behold, you know, life happens, things change, and uh I had to pivot. And uh Huxon was really the only player in town. I've been hearing everything that they've been doing, you know, you've got to keep your ear on the ground, you know, people that they've been hiring, the calibre of people they've been hiring and taking on. You got the likes of Matt Telford, you know, ex-sovereign, been my sovereign for you know over a decade, highly respected. So, you know, when I heard Matthew Telford's gone there, it was like, right, well, these guys are really doing something right here. So we had the conversation, and I think what's really important, and when you get to a certain point, you realise that it's not just about a business decision, it has to be a bit personal too, in the sense that there's got to be a synergy and a connection, and you have to be on the same page from an ethical standpoint, um you know, it's collaboration, but you can't collaborate with just anyone. So I think it's become increasingly important that you know, because effectively, like I said, you are running a business within the business, right? So again, it's about trust. And when I've came when I've come into Hoxton, and you know, you see just see the energy and the the the mutual respect that everyone has for each other, you've got the leadership of Chris, who you know I think is quite a visionary. Um and what he's created in the office is I would say quite infectious. So you know, having spoken to Mo before I joined, I guess it was just a natural thing and natural part of that evolution process that it was only a matter of time before I come. So it's kind of come full circle now because I go into the office and I'm like, oh, how you doing? You know, you know, I've not seen you for ages. Like from the administrators to the advisors, I've seen so many people that I've worked with in in previous firms, and uh yeah, it's great, it's kind of feeling like um almost like I'm back home. Yeah, nice, you know. Um I've I've been I've been with Hox in just over a year, and um but it feels like I've been there quite quite a while now. I feel fully settled in. That's good and that's that's good feedback. I mean, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah you said exactly the same. So I 2018, 2017, 2018, I was I was at a previous company and I was looking, there's a bit going on. I wasn't really happy and I was like, where am I gonna go? So I went and spoke to Chris and he was working at a competitor at the time and I said, Listen, I'm thinking about coming over and thing, and he goes, Don't, I'm gonna set my own business up in three or four months. And I was like, Oh, you know, it's a bit of a risk, you know, I don't know how it's gonna go. And I didn't, I went went somewhere else for a couple of years and kind of agreed that we'll see how it goes because I did just wasn't in the position. I look back now and think, God, I wish I got in on day one because when I when I came over in 2020, I think it was, when I moved over in 2020, I was like, God, these guys are what they're doing is so different, you know. It was very so AUM focused, it was long-term relationship focused, it was UK, US. I was just like, God, I'm so glad I came when I did, because I was kind of getting left behind in one of those previous companies, which was a big thing for me. But it's that what you said, it's it's about feeling a part of something that's important, and I think yeah, yeah, and also making sure it aligns with what you're trying to do. You know, if it doesn't align what you do, it's no point. Like in the day, and that's what I think we've done a good job of creating over the last 12, well, five, six, seven years is a group of people all want to help each other and kind of bring each other forward.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Uh well that that's exactly what I feel when I uh when I came into the office. So, you know, I was quite surprised to see that the partners, you know, everyone's set on the same floor. Advisors, whether you're senior level, junior level, everyone is set on the same floor, you sat opposite each other, next to each other. Whereas I've been in previous firms where it's like, oh, you know, I'm keeping secret what I'm doing, you can't see what I'm doing, you can't see which clients I'm speaking to. Where I feel with Hoxton, it's just an open floor, yeah, and that's where you know collaboration happens, it's where you have some innovation, and even for myself, you know, I've come into the business and I've seen you know the guys doing things, I'm taking away taking bits from absolutely everything, everyone in the office, and I think that's what's really valuable, not just for the newer generation coming into the industry, but even us guys that have been in it for a while, you know, say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you certainly can. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

I think it's funny because I hear it all the time. People will say, Oh, has anybody got a client in I don't know, AMEC or wherever? And they'll say, Yeah, oh, I'm speaking to a guy there, he's been referred in to me, he's looking for a client that's already a client. Do you mind if you can introduce them and tell them they're already client? Yeah, fine. Like we work together by collaboration. I have told you. Previously, it was always like, Oh god, I'm not gonna tell anyone because yeah, but it's by working together, you all grow because the more clients you have, the better reputation you have, the more asset manager, the more licenses you have, it gets easier as time goes on. Yeah, you know, I I don't believe that I've got five or six times better as a financial planner, but obviously the brand around me has, and you know, we we have upskilled, but that's so important. But you can only do that if you work together, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Oh, absolutely, and I think that's definitely what Hoxman's instilled, and you see it across the board, you know, and uh it certainly helped me. Yeah, it's helped my business, um, for sure. And I guess it's only the beginning, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

So you had a yeah, we'll talk about that because I know you had a period of a bit where you did a lot of pension work back in the day um when when the multiples for divine benefit pensions were really, really high, very, very attractive. There's some unique planning opportunities with the obviously the taxation and stuff like that. So I I know you had a bit of a slower period, which where you're gathering your thoughts and coming all together. I mean, I I also know that you want to get you're getting going again, and you know, you're really really moving again. I mean, what's what's next?

Diversification In Advice And Licences

SPEAKER_00 23:08

So I I feel like um again, I'd been here in this fast-paced environment for you know 12 years. So yeah, I took a bit of a step back from the Middle East, and you know, I've been living in uh well the Algarve and you know, be there with family, and um it's been great, it's great because it's given me a totally different perspective again, but you know, all the noise is coming from the Middle East, you know, absolutely everything's coming from this direction, and I think it's that, but also the you know, the added value of having you know the team on the ground here, which I really think can um elevate the business to to different levels because you know you kind of get to a certain level and you think, oh yeah, you know, I'm alright where I am here, but then you jump into hoxing and everyone's leveling up. So I guess it's that I've got to a point, you know, now I'm a point in my career where I've got a different set of eyes, different perspective. I'm talking from a place for place of experience. So it's kind of like right, well, I think maybe it's time to jump back in um and be part of of this story, like the Hoxton story, like you know, the growth has been excuse me, exponential since I've been on board. I think we must have taken on, you know, another billion, if not more, in assets.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, I think we've done a billion. I think I was looking at the other day, I think we've done a billion of organic assets. So we've obviously been doing mergers and acquisitions as well. Organic growth, we've done a billion over the last two years, which is you know, exceeds our expectations and it's fantastic. And obviously, but you've got to evolve, like you know, the areas that we've been doing a lot of business in the US and and things like that, you know, you've always got to be looking, not not taking your eye off what you're doing already, but you've got to be looking at diversification. I think we've done a good job of that, and you know, obviously you're starting to evolve and diversify yourself.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, definitely. I'm I'm doing the same thing, you know, seeing what advisors are doing differently, what's working for them, because ultimately the industry, you know, again it can change, and it did change. You know, pensions were kind of the the talk of the day. Yep, but then all of a sudden that switched. So again, having these different streams and elements, multiple licenses in multiple jurisdictions, um, it's extremely powerful, yeah. And it just means that you can, you know, sustain and run your business um and diversify it, just as we say to clients, diversify your assets, you know. Um, it's the same thing with the life of a financial advisor. We've got to ensure that in your business, yeah, have a niche, have a focus, but you know, you have to be, you know, I guess multi uh multi-focus at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

So on that then, so obviously I you know we do a lot of US, we still do pensions, we do planning, there's a lot of business being done now around trust and you know, uh succession plan, things like that. What where do you see the opportunities? You know, what what areas do you want to focus on and where where are they gonna be?

Sharia Compliant Investing Opportunity

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Well, I guess the the it will it will be again client-led, right? So my client will always lead what solutions I'm providing, whether that be trust business, whether it's pension business, the US stuff. It again, but I think one area that I've been you know looking into for quite some time, and you know, I think there's a big gap in the market over here, is for Sharia compliant investments because there's been quite an evolution in the Sharia compliant space as well. So, you know, before Sharia compliant it was just for your your Muslim clientele, but what we're finding now, if you look at the stats, you can see that it's becoming more of a conventional type of investment. You'd be quite surprised is like uh you know, billions in Sharia compliant investments in UK pensions. Wow. You know, why because of the performance, you know, the robust performance that they've provided as well. And I think here in the GCC, you know, it would just make sense to have a footprint or a division where you know we can service that that part of the market, um, because I think it's kind of been overlooked. So again, with Hoxon, you know, with the support and the framework, it seems a perfect place to do it. You know, we've got the DIFC license now as well. Um, we've already got relationships in place with you know Sharia compliant investment providers, you know, our investment partners, Additon, for instance. So all of these things kind of just aligned when I came to Hoxhan. I've got had this idea for quite some time. You know, it's very much in line with my own beliefs, and you know, I think ethical investing is is becoming very prominent. Um, even the younger generation that want to know, like, where's my money being invested? You know, how is it affecting the wider society, but it's still growth-focused.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, I mean it's right. Obviously, it's so important, but at the same time, with inflation the way it is and things like that, you know, it has to people people's money has to grow, right? You know, inflation has been, you know, we've seen it so high over the last two years, and it's you know, and it's good, as you say, and it's a fairly untapped market, I would say, but actually a seriously sizable market if you can get it right. But it's gonna take, I bet there's been a lot of back work going on to that already.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, definitely. So lots of conversations and you know, kind of planning going into it at the moment. Um, but I think it's gonna be you know really exciting because again, it just gives me a little bit of something else to focus on. Um, and you know, the conversations again will be somewhat different, I'm sure. Um, but again, I think it's a massively unserviced uh part of the financial services uh industry, especially in the expat. Yeah. Because we we focus on you know international expats, right? But even in that space, there's there's there's a massive uh chunk of clientele, I think, that would uh really require uh this type of um well solution. Yeah, 100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

So

The Ups And Downs Of Advice

SPEAKER_01 29:17

interesting. So I think when we spoke about recently when we had a conversation, we're talking about you know the ups and downs of being a financial planner, right? And you know, we we've all been through them. You know, I I always joke about how I come off some meetings and I think oh that guy's definitely gonna work with me, and then we we don't end up for one way or another, or I come off another meeting, it's really difficult, and then end up being being a client. Um it's not all sunshine and roses, is it?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Oh, absolutely not. No, um, it's not what everyone thinks. Yeah, it's not what you see on Instagram, no that way, yeah. People driving flash cars and wearing watches and oh yeah, look that that can be part of it as well, right? But you know, it's definitely not that all day long. Um you're chasing trustees around institutions, you know, ensuring things are getting done when they need to get done, because again, you know, it's it's it's money, right? So, you know, you it's you can't afford to be making mistakes, and so there's lots of that, there's so much that goes on in the background, then there's you know the compliance element, making sure that you know everything from a client side is is compliant. Um and all of the kind of backwork that goes into it, it's it's you have your good days, you have your bad days, you have your highs, you have your lows. Um with any with any business, and look, every client you meet, you're not necessarily gonna they might not like you initially, you know, but over time, like I said, I think it's about building relationships, and even when they become clients, they're gonna be days where you know you're gonna have some tough conversations. Um, but it's about kind of just taking that on board and uh effectively just just it's

Cross-Border Work Behind The Scenes

SPEAKER_00 31:00

how you grow.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah, I always think that no, when you look at financial planning, you look at it like say in the UK, right? It's almost blueprinted. I know it's it's not you know, you have to write advice for the clients and you have to make sure it fits, but it all follows the same tax regime, it all follows the same, you know, everything follows the same format. Yeah, you know, I was speaking to a client of mine that's that's you know based in Europe, um potential to go to the UK, potential to come to the Middle East, potential to go to Asia, his wife's not from the UK, his kids aren't from the UK, and you start looking in, you scratch both service. I mean, the work that has gone in on the back end speaking to different tax planners, speaking to you know trustees, trying to trying to find a solution, and you know, and then you go in for a meeting for an hour and this could be 10, 12 hours in the background. You know, it's not yeah. I always joke and say it's the best job in the world because all we do is go around and speak to people, but actually you're sitting at night reading through legislation and trying to find the right person to help you, there's a hell of a lot more to it, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Well, yeah, of course, and especially when you work in cross-border multi-jurisdictional, because you might meet a client who's got you know assets in Europe, he's got assets in the UK, then he's got assets offshore. So effectively, you're having to liaise with all of these multiple different parties and bring everything together and create some synergy where it's to the client, you know, there's all of this chaos going on in the background, but you can't show that to the client. The client has got he wants to know things are moving smooth, right? Yeah, so again, that's where it becomes really, really important that the firm that you're with has that collective mindset of we need to be on service, like we need to get it right, and you know, again with Hoxton, I feel like since I've come on board, there's that there is investment into the business. Whereas I've been with previous firms, and you know, they might look all glossy, but the reality is nobody's investing in the business, so you know, that affects the service levels you can provide with your clients. Whereas if we look at Hoxton, we've got a new client services division, you know, direct phone line to client services. So that gives me peace of mind as an advisor, thinking, right, well, you know what, if a client can't get hold of me and there is something urgent, then they've got that resource. So it's all these value ads that you know when you're running your own business, it um it definitely definitely makes difference to the to the overall client experience.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

It's funny what you said there, you know, talking about the the cross-border. I think we've got a client on the books that's got a 401k because he worked in the US, he's got a UK pension because he worked in the UK and has a superannuation because they're now in Australia. Yeah. And I think the same advisor is is actually does all three jurisdictions, he's licensed qualified in all three jurisdictions. But I also have clients that have got assets in different jurisdictions we don't work with, and they've got financial planners. And I've met with their financial planners on a meeting with the client. So 10 years ago, it would always be like it's all me or nothing, and now you know you realize that you can't do everything. No, of course, you know. So, but the good thing that we have internally is the ability to work between people. The other thing that you know you mentioned there is it the investment in the tech is important, but we also, yes, we are focused on growth, and we talk about we put a billion of assets under management. What we haven't talked about is we have an MPS score now, so that's basically a net promoter score. That every time we do anything with a client, they they get sent a link to ask how the service was. Yeah, and we have a we have a barrier for all of our advisors and all of our planners where they've got to be above a certain barrier of to to keep the clients happy. So it's about that rounded package because when you are taking clients on for the long term, which like you have done, you've got to have them for the long term. Oh, yeah. So if you're not doing the service, you're not looking after them, you know, it kind of devalues the whole proposition.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Service is key, it really is. Um, you know, the financial planning aspect of it, I would say, is the is a is an easy element. It's the service in that relationship, yeah, you know, and you know, keeping that client happy, not just 12 months in, but you know, for the long term. Yeah. Um, and that's where I feel for me, that's where the passion comes into this. Yeah, you know, that's what makes me effectively enjoy what I do. So it's uh that constant, it's a constant challenge, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And that service piece is like you've been doing it a long time

Coaching Clients Through Market Swings

SPEAKER_01 35:11

now, right? So I always say it's actually it isn't easy when the markets are going up, because typically when the markets are going up, it might be that the Magnificant 7 are going up three times faster, and your clients are always saying to you, Well, why wasn't it in that? Oh, yeah. Well, because you're a cautious investor and we couldn't put you into all into the video, or Bitcoin's going gangbusters and everyone's going, Why isn't that? But actually, that's quite tough. But it's also tough when the markets do go down. You know, I had clients invest at the end of 21 just before you know inflation went through the roof and the markets tanked. And for 12 months, two years, they were down and it was hard conversations. But I think getting out in front of those conversations, speaking to those clients, servicing them. I mean, what was it like going through those ups and downs with your clients?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Well, effectively, you've got to you've got to kind of hold hold a hand and and be with them through that emotional journey.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Tell them it's all going to be okay. Well, yeah. Well, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And and it it it 99% of the time it is. So, you know, it's about kind of ensuring that you know you are managing emotions effectively because markets, you know, yes, they can be up, you know, and then before you know it, you can you can see the market drop 10%, but then look what happened last week. You know, markets had a bit of a wobble, and the next day they're back in the positive. So, yeah, it is about adding your professional expertise, your experience, and bringing that to the table. So, you know, that's what's important with clients that you know they need to know, all right, I can trust this advisor because he's experienced and he knows what he's doing. So, as long as you keep servicing them and you keep on top of them and uh you know ensuring that they're in the know, then you don't really have too many of those uncomfortable uh situations. And when clients have been with you for over a decade, they've seen COVID, you know, they've seen you know market slides, um, and they know that markets will recover. So it's just about you know, yeah, just being with them in that on that journey,

Dubai’s Growth And Market Maturity

SPEAKER_00 37:05

really.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So obviously, you've been coming back to Dubai a lot more recently. I mean, obviously, I mean, we'll just touch on the touch on the growth of Dubai a little bit. I mean, how much has it changed since you left to start coming back?

SPEAKER_00 37:16

It changes continuously, you know, it's it's on a constant evolution cycle, I think. Yeah. Um there's in whether that's infrastructure, whether that's the influx of people, there's always new buildings going up. Um, but again, even the industry, yeah. Right. So when I set foot into the Middle East 17 and a half years ago, it was a highly, you could say, unregulated marketplace, right? Um move on now, and the DIFC is like one of the top 10 financial hubs in the world. So from an evolution, the market's massively evolved. And I think you know, when you say to someone now, um, you know, our head officers in the UAE, Dubai, it's you can say that with confidence, whereas before, you're like, Oh yeah, you know, apart from Dubai, they'd be like, Oh, see you later, mate. Yeah, you know, so it's got a different uh feel to it, definitely. And I think that's where you know, from a career perspective, as an IFA, if you you know, whether it's whether you're new or whether you're seasoned, it's a great place to be because you know, from a career perspective, it you can really move forward with your career in a in a in a shorter space of time than you know you might, you know, elsewhere. So yeah.

Closing Thanks And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Well, I've obviously been great to speak today, but Alan, I mean we do all the time, but it's great to go through and hear a bit more about your story. Sure. Really excited to hear how the Sharia compliance side of things go, and I'm sure we'll get you back on next year and we can see how that's evolved and gone forward. But thank you very much for coming and uh good luck for the rest of the year. You're welcome. Thanks,