What will be the signs that you have "arrived"?

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

We call these meetings kinship because we cannot help but notice that the truest commonalities, the deepest mutualities, are mutualities based on ideas. Ideas in the sense that justice is an idea, love is an idea, truth is an idea, it's a concept, it's a non-material, non-physical, yet very real thing. And we find that it doesn't seem to matter that someone is our father or mother or brother or sister, or our longest friend. If we do not have ideas in common with them, we do not feel like we are kin. And so that's why we can't help but notice, like I said, that the truest kinship is kinship based on not biology and not biography, but ideas. Doesn't matter how closely genetically related we are to someone, or how long we've known someone, or how similar our so-called backgrounds are, our biography, our stories. It doesn't seem to matter. Vice versa, when we meet someone we've never met before, or we don't even meet them, we just read like some of the books behind me that we call friends, the authors we call friends. We've never met them yet. We can sometimes read a single line and feel a direct, fundamental kinship with them. How did that happen? We recognized an idea in each other, and so we felt like kin. And this is why we call them kinship. No one here, as far as we know, is biologically related or biographically related. Yet we are still here because we're assembling around a certain set of ideas, of common beliefs, and that's a true, solid, unchanging kinship. The kind of kin that never have to meet, never even have to know of each other, but they're still connected through that kinship and always will be.

SPEAKER_07 2:32

Something uh shifted. Like it's it's like it's something I've thought about very often. We were discussing last last week about how intention is related to the virtues and outcome is related to the vices. Now and this week, we uh uh or at least I've come to see that intention is related to the present, while outcome is related to either the not the present, in fact.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

As you said, this is a question that we dealt with in in prior weeks, and our question was what is more important? Intention or outcome? It is absolutely true. And the more we looked into it, the more, as you just mentioned, we found all these connections. Intention is related to virtue, like you said. Uh outcomes are always related to vices. Vices are always outcomes, and virtues are intentions. You're so right. And um, yes, intention always deals with the present, always deals with reality. Outcome always deals with delusion. Because we say, Oh, uh I I I lied, I cheated, I deceived, or I acted at random, completely ignorantly, completely recklessly, but it turned out fine. Meaning, for example, uh I drove a car uh when I really shouldn't have because I had a few too many drinks. Uh but it was fine. I got home fine, so no problem, right? No. All the problems in the world. As soon as you got into the vehicle with the intention of driving, knowing that you shouldn't, you have already killed a bunch of people. Really, you have, because it's that intention that disregards human life, it's the intention that the has no respect for anyone else. In that way, you have already harmed yourself. In that way, you have already caused yourself the greatest injury. But I got home fine, so no problem. No, that's exactly how people think who make who lay importance on outcome rather than intention. And this is a life of pure misery, recklessness, randomness, ignorance, and uh a deep-rooted uh sadness, really, because everything is at random, everything is at random. It was not in our control that we got home fine. We were just one part of the puzzle. So many other things could have happened. And so now we are relying on randomness, on chance, on luck, on outside conditions. Whereas intention is fully within you. No one can do anything to your intention. No one. It's fully in your control where outcome is hardly ever at all in your control. And and if you've been here before, you know we don't consider partial control to be true control. Only full control is true control. And once again, in intention, we find that we find that full and true control. And when you set your intention right, this is I think you touched on this as well, which I find very valuable. If you set your intention right, nothing can happen to you. Nothing can happen to you. Because nothing that happens will be at all under your responsibility. You've set your intention right. And the outcome still was that due to randomness, chance, and and the ignorance of others, perhaps, or or whatever outside condition which you have no control over and therefore no responsibility to has happened and still this this challenge occurred, this this um accident occurred, this thing occurred, whatever it is, we just go deal with that. But we do not feel a single second of shame, regret, anger, disappointment, um, resentment, hatred towards anyone, envy, jealousy, nothing. Because when we did the thing, no matter the outcome, our intention was right. Meaning the one thing we were fully in control over and therefore responsible for, we took care of. And so we just sit there in everything we do, in everything we do, we operate out of a sense of I did my part. I did my responsibility. There's a beautiful story of the ant and the water drop. You know, there's a forest fire going on, and the ant goes down to the river and picks up a single water drop on its back and goes towards the fire. And uh someone says, you know, some other animal, whatever, uh says, What are you gonna do with one drop of water? It's gonna have no effect whatsoever. And the ant says, better it have no effect than me not go do it. And there are different variations of that story, right? Better um it not arrive there than me not sending it. That's the intention. Better none of what I do matter than me thinking everything is futile and nothing matters. And so if you put the drop on your back, even if it is a drop, if you've put the drop on your back and you brought it to the fire and you put it on the fire, you've literally done everything you can. Where is your responsibility after that? So if you want to put yourself in a state of peace, if you want to put yourself in accordance with your nature and have this lightness about you and this carefreeness about you, set that right, which is fully in your control. And you will never ever have to worry about a single thing. This is the power of intention. You set your intention right, no matter what comes after that, is your responsibility because you have taken full responsibility and you have fulfilled your full responsibility to the one thing that you are truly in control of is intention. And the one thing you are truly not in control of is outcome. The one thing you are not truly in control of is outcome. Otherwise, um end all wars. End all hunger. Can we do this? These are outcomes. It does not happen. No one's ever been able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

However, I will not be a part of the problem. I will not participate in wrongdoing.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

These are things you can decide and do for yourself in less than a moment. So uh that's a very beautiful realization. I I appreciate uh you sharing that with us. And this is once again I want to point out to everyone the fruits of the work of life. You go read just a little bit, you go write just a little bit, and again with the right intention, you have worlds revealed to you. Entire worlds open up to you. This is a living, breathing example, what we just heard. Anyone can do this. Show me one person, and most importantly, show me yourself. Can you not do this too? This is open to every single person. And like I said, entire worlds will be revealed to you out of your own mind. Not something you have to pay for, not something you you have to study four years, eight years, ten years. No, right here, right now, by yourself, for yourself, with yourself, and no one else. This is the power of intention. But if you would lay importance on outcome, you'd say, hmm, uh what what's this gonna do for me? You know, I I I want to receive knowledge from someone who's smart, someone who's wise needs to tell me, need to hand, needs to hand it to me. There's no way this is inside of me. And so, yeah, once again, uh you dedicate yourself to intention and not at all to outcome. This does not mean that the outcome won't follow. I I tell you this, people who have their intentions right are also the ones who are most satisfied, objectively truly, with the outcomes. Because they're operating from a place of peace. They're operating from a place of I've done everything I can. And this clarity that this gives me of what needs to be done, what I can do, what I truly can't do, but was under the illusion of being able to do if I'm an outcome-oriented person. Now I can see all these things with clarity. The little bit of resources I have, the little bit of time that I have relative to the issue at hand, I can direct, pinpoint to the best possible. That drop of water that I have, which more I simply cannot carry, that I can put exactly where is best.

SPEAKER_07 12:46

So your story of the ant actually does point to something uh that uh wanted to say as well. Um, which the very day, you know, I guess it happens on a long travel. Um uh that day I kind of sitting by the window. And this started dawning on me that day, so you think how uh sort of you know a mindset shift has happened, probably because of this idea. I have for the longest time uh believed in not believed in medicine, uh in any religious ideas. I was very away from that, and I wanted to be more scientific, and I thought no way could these ideas be scientific or could these be made sense of. Um I didn't know about like I so you have spoken about it a lot, and I thought you know you're maybe like an exception. But now I started to start reading Spinoza, and I'm like, he really goes one-on-one like he has a chronic, he has axioms, man, he's he's a mathematician in a way. He's uh I I'm really looking forward to reading him. As I said, I started reading him today itself. Uh so it exists uh for our if we want to find him. And but uh what I was thinking was in all this time I would think that uh life is meaningless. There's no point to anything that you know things originated out of cipher and the world is going nowhere. And uh and that's that's the kind of philosophy I ran with. And it was then very then it leads to very outcome related world. You know, okay, I'm here, I need to do what I can, and the best thing is to have some money, you know, just whatever. What what what what is there to do with life? Right? I don't know. I think uh this nihilism, a nihilistic idea of I don't know, I'm not trying to say it's a bad philosophy or whatever, but for me, it it was that to maybe I did not read enough, maybe that's why. Uh so I'm not commenting on the philosophy, I'm commenting on my understanding of the philosophy, which is that uh the nihilistic philosophy always led me to be more outcome-based. Oh, let's have the money, let's have the fame, let's you know, feel uh feel good at least on the outside. You know, I cannot do anything about the inside, forget it. Only now I've come to see no, that's not you know, if you want, fine, whatever. But if you also want to, you know, be at peace on the inside, you do that. And this is how so that is something that has shifted and something I've really kind of gotten dedicated to. And it's something I can only be grateful for. It's not something that I've done a work for. It's come my way. I'm not gone its way. If you have any comment on that, uh please do uh, because I wanted to comment on uh the question of the Fortnite as well, uh, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah, of course. Uh no, and you you're absolutely right. This is what I always say that the world is your playground. It truly is. If you don't like the word God, replace it with truth. That's the same thing. Who isn't after truth? If you're so scientific and so academic and so secular, whatever you identify as, aren't we after the truth? Okay, truth has been called God by many people. Okay, it's just a term that resentment we feel towards either the term, and some people love the word God and they don't like the word truth, they don't like the word science, they don't like uh that whole spectrum of people. It's an identity within us, it's the ego that is holding us back, that does not want us to find truth. There's a resistance there to truth because everyone who has truth knows they need nothing else, and the ego is that else. And so, of course, it's interested in keeping you separated, keeping you partial, keeping you incomplete so that you have a use for it, you have space for it. But once truth comes in, it fully takes you over. Uh, there's no need for anything else, and everything else must go. And uh yeah, Spinoza, his ethics are our reading recommendation right now. It's the newest reading recommendation. Uh, this is always announced with the newsletter. If you're not subscribed to the newsletter, I highly recommend that you do. Uh, because this is how you find out about these things. And yes, Spinoza speaks to everyone. Because Spinoza talks a lot about God, but you will see he doesn't talk about God like we're all used to. He has his own personal connection with God and it's just a synonym for truth, and truth is always a synonym for God. And uh if you think that this world is meaningless, you just haven't found your meaning yet. That which it you are seeking is seeking you. It truly is the case. It's just like with reading. There are so many people. I this is a small, profane example. But people th some people think, uh, I'm just not a reader. I'm just not one of those people who likes reading. I find it boring. I I have no interest in it. You just haven't found the right books. That's all. Reading is not a hobby. Reading is not an activity that some people do and others don't. The entire world, everything you ever wanted to know, everything that you already know, but think no one else is sharing with you that you are this lonely person, is contained in some or other book, written by one or another of our friends that we will perhaps never meet that lived thousands of years ago, but they left it for you. And just it's it's the same with truth and meaning and so-called happiness and peace. You just haven't found your personal connection yet. And that personal connection is the very thing that you're looking for. You're trying to receive it, you're trying to go into the into academia, study this, and I will receive it. You're trying to go into church trying to receive it, you're trying to go into the synagogue, trying to receive it, you're trying to go to a guru to receive it. And um, those things well and properly should point you to truth or to God or whatever you want to call it. God has many names, truth has many names. Uh, but often they fail to do so because they're also just uh institutions run by human beings, just like any other institution. There's corruption, there's ignorance, they're just plain old mistakes, there's silliness going on. And again, no one's evil, no one's uh doing this on purpose ultimately. Uh but yeah, you might become disappointed going into these places looking to be handed truth, because it doesn't work like that. And uh most people perhaps in there will fail to make that clear to you that meaning is out there, but it cannot be handed to you. The very process of acquiring it is you trying to find it, looking, looking, looking, looking, and striving, and by thereby finding all the components of your world, all the components of truth and putting it together yourself. It is truly like uh discovering in a journal entry, in a book you read, in some thinking you did, just like intentions versus outcomes. What's more important? As I think about this, I am receiving truly one component of that truth, a big one. And just a few more of those, there aren't that many. Just a few more of those, you put that together and something happens. Of course, it's happening all along. There's no moment where that happened. It's happened, it's happening all along. And so, yeah, we'll uh we'll ask you the question of the fortnight. The question of the fortnight right now is what will be the signs that you have arrived? One more time. What will be the signs that you have arrived? Arrived, however you want to define it.

SPEAKER_07 21:33

Couple years ago, I would have and now when you know mention this this word or this very phrase, I have arrived. So it's very it's it's very like that time I know how to do philosophy. And uh it's very you know interesting to compare. What I thought then versus what I g what I think now. Uh that time I j I did think it's gonna be money. It's gonna be, you know, having this much money, having a house in this particular city, um, a big house, this car. So I really thought about status. Uh three things money, status, and power. Uh money, power, and status. Uh now I think about it, um and what comes to mind is like in all of this, what happened to what started changing was that I started achieving some of it, and even then I was not happy. But I realized how much I'm looking for approval of others. And that was what I was looking for. And so I thought, you know, how can I get the approval of all? That's not possible. Uh and I think a couple weeks ago we had this discussion here when we said that being at peace is to find approval of God or reality, you know, to have uh things we're not talking about accepting, we're talking about something, but talking about the approval of uh of reality when we feel at peace feeling. So uh what will be the sign that I have arrived? Uh it will be that I am I am at peace.

SPEAKER_06 23:22

I have the approval of the theme set of uh you know, not one person or the other person, but uh God, high power or reality, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_07 23:38

Uh I I myself you know interchange the names every now and then. Um but also I realize that uh it cannot be that I am at I have the approval all the time, every time. As in it cannot be that I become a non-human, a robot who ha who cannot not have anger or him. But to have that and just be aware of it. Yeah, okay, this is happening. Is this the right thing? And to be able to see that, to be able to question that and uh and to do the right thing. I think that would be when I when I would say I would I have a right. Yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

I I appreciate that answer. Thank you. And I uh most of all appreciate at all the attention that um anyone puts into these questions. And I and I do think that it is well worth it, right? As as you have already been speaking about a past question of the Fortnite. Um, worlds open up to us. If you give any attention to this, you will immediately receive something back. And don't have the expectation that you will. But naturally, we are unchallenged about these things. We are unwe're never asked about these things. No one ever asks us about these things. No one ever says, hey, what do you think about intention? What do you think about outcomes? Which one's more important? How should we live our life? Um, everyone is trying to arrive. However, you want to define that, however, the person defines that. Everyone is trying to arrive. And no one ever asks us, well, do you know what it's going to be like when you're what are you looking for? What are the signs you're looking for? If you are in a car and you're driving and you're trying to get to a certain city, you're seeing the signs, right? Uh 30 miles left, 10 miles left, uh, welcome to so-and-so city. That's when you see it. But in in this way, in the most important way, in the non-physical way, how will you know that you have arrived? And so this is a very important thing to ask ourselves, just by asking ourselves. No one needs to answer this for us. We don't even need to answer it necessarily. Just the act of thinking brings about uh so many insights about what it means to arrive. What do I even think it will be like? And uh when I apply reason to that, does that make sense and all that? This needs to be considered. This needs to be examined, otherwise, how will we know that we have arrived? Simple. And so um I appreciate your question. I mean, your answer to the question. And I will just for time reasons, I will move you back to the audience. But uh so very appreciate your contribution here and in everything you've said uh about intention, outcome, your response to the question of the Fortnite, all extremely valuable. And of course, most valuable, as valuable as it is for me to hear, and I hope everyone else is most valuable it is to yourself. And of course, you know that you're experiencing it, you can't help but notice it. And so uh, this is not theory. I want to tell this to everyone. As you can see, and I'm trying to show this to you every single week. These things are happening right in front of you, they're being demonstrated to you. Either with the things we talk about, and then things are happening within our minds where we just have a new realization where we drop a false belief and we're saying, wow, it's just dropping right in front of me. I can see it. I'm observing it, and my life is changing necessarily. As my worldview is changing, my life is changing. But even that is theory compared to someone coming here and telling us, look, this is what happened. This happened three days ago or a week ago, whatever, during my travels. Uh, I did this. And who could have kept me from doing this? And I achieved a real result from it. And it's showing up an experience. It's not theory, it's not an opinion, it's not this or that. I can feel it, I can see it, I can not help but live in a different way from the song from this moment on. And of course, in a much improved way. So uh this is what I'm trying to show you here, and I think it is quite obvious. Uh, and I will take our next speaker.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

Why does it why does our soul keep on reincarnating itself? It is kind of a very fundamental question. But I want like I want to hear your thoughts on it. Like, why does our soul keep reincarnating? Is it out of wrong inclinations or wrong habits? Because as per the Bhagavad Gita, we understand this thing of um there is this concept of asakti. If our soul is asakti or it is used to it, it it wants uh to like um enjoy certain things, then it will keep reincarnating itself. So is it the same reason why it does that? And the second question is from our last um meeting. In our last meeting, you said that we cannot harm anyone, but we can only harm ourselves. It is a quote from Socrates. But my question is that uh but aren't we influencing the decisions and habits of our children or the people who look up to us? Thus causing them harm if we happen to have some bad habits and inclinations. If we happen to identify too much with our egos, aren't we making them identify with uh the so-called ego vegetable? Because it is you also said that it is important for us to overcome our society, right? Overcome our ego.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Who told you that the soul reincarnates?

SPEAKER_05 29:35

Um I'm from India, so um um uh by reading Bhagavad Gita and from my grandparents and from the pandits like teach about soul.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Do you see a connection between your two questions?

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Yes, um connection is there because uh as per my first understanding, uh soul reincarnates because of its um because it wants to like enjoy stuff.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

And your understanding of the soul comes from your culture and your family, correct? True. So when I say we must overcome culture, and when I say that culture is our national culture, our religious culture, our family culture, our individual culture, uh, that's what I mean. We must overcome culture. Because look, if the soul reincarnates, you don't need anyone to tell you that. You will know, you will know it will show up in experience, because if it doesn't show up in experience, then it is not for you to know. Is that a fair state fair statement?

SPEAKER_05 30:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

So if something does not show up in your experience, God, the universe, again, however you believe, right? If you believe in God, then that God, if you believe in the universe, then just the universe being all of creation. Um if it doesn't show up in your experience without you having to do anything, then it is not for you to know. And you cannot know. Whether the soul incarnates or not, look, I haven't said I haven't said that the soul incarnates or that it reincarnates or that it does not reincarnate. I I have not and will not say either way. Why? Because I don't know. It hasn't shown up in my experience. I cannot go inward and feel uh this is the 16th reincarnation of my soul. I cannot feel that. I have no evidence of it. Um, no one's uh been able to show me that this is the case, make me see, right? They can tell me about it, and they certainly do, but they cannot make me see it. And um, this might just be a personal inability to see, maybe others can see it, fine, okay, but once again, it is about me, it is about my soul, so to speak. It is not about others. If I try and I explore, and without expectation and without uh any kind of um narrative, if I approach the issue and uh I explore it, and I out of that exploration, I I say the whole reincarnation thing, I cannot find it in myself, I cannot see it. And uh God, truth, the universe would never require anything of me to know anything of to know anything that I cannot know because I tried and I do not know. And so whether it is true that the soul reincarnates or not, I need not know about it to have a full, complete life devoted to truth, I do not need it. Whether it reincarnates or not, I will live according to truth, I will dedicate myself to justice, I will dedicate myself to love, and I will dedicate myself to reality, to that which is okay, and if in the process that is good for the reincarnation of my soul or or not, it is what it is. It will happen, what will happen. And so, what good did it ever do to you to know about, to be told about the reincarnation of the soul?

SPEAKER_05 33:58

Like the way they explain Bhagavad Gita to us is that like we have got so many after so many births, we have we have gone through the bodies of animals, we have taken up the lives of uh plants and trees, animals, and then eventually we became human beings, right? And we got this higher intelligence, and it is and we are supposed to use this intelligence to get rid of the world and enter into some uh heaven, and uh how we move by practicing like having a sense of abstinence from everything external. This is what they have been teaching us. And what good has it done you? It has not done anything good as such, but uh there's a promise that it will bring good to you like uh for your soul, like in the long run, you won't be incarnating again. This is what they say.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

From what I gather from what you said, it has done you no practical good. It hasn't shown up in your experience, and I am not saying that it has harmed you. Okay, this is a very important thing I'm trying to point out to you. I am not of an opinion. I am not like your culture, your family, the people around you, your teachers, whatever, have told you. I am not telling you go this way or go this way and don't go this way. I am not telling you that. I am telling you go the way that is apparent to you. Go the way that is apparent to you. Do not go away that is not apparent to you. But what's apparent to you and what's not apparent to you, that's completely up to you. So in that way, you are steering yourself. No one can steer you, no one should steer you, no one has the right to steer you. And look, this uh belief which has not shown up in your experience, which has not done you any good, uh, is now as a basis, now you're jumping off of that, saying, uh, but other people can impede the journey of our soul, and in that way perhaps they can harm us. That idea, that confusion, that question is based on this first assumption which you have only heard about but never experienced. So this is an important thing to realize. Base things off that which you have experienced, which you can find in yourself, which show up in your life, not those things that don't show up. This is why we need to overcome culture, because we are told something and we believe it because we say, Well, these are my parents. They want the best from me, they know better than me. This is coming from my society's elders, whatever, right? From the scholars, from this or that. And so they must know better. But why are we taking it on blind faith? What they can know, you can know. And if you cannot know, then that means they do not know either. And they have only taken it over from the previous generation or whoever they looked up to. And again, those people who have given us this knowledge, they did not wish us ill. They are not evil. They did not do us, did do this to encumber us. They're not, they don't want to burden us, quite the opposite. They have, they're trying to pass on to you what they believe is knowledge, sacred even knowledge that has come from generations and generations before them. So they're trying to do the very best thing for you. However, as an adult, it is your responsibility and your privilege. It is your responsibility and your privilege to look at every single thing that is driving your experience, that your beliefs are based on, that your concept of peace, of God, of truth, of the world, of good and bad, of evil and good is based on, and to examine and re-examine everything to your satisfaction, not to your parents' satisfaction, not to your culture satisfaction, not to your academic institution satisfaction, your satisfaction. And when I say satisfaction, I'm not talking about a feeling or an emotion. I'm talking about your reason, that which is your nature, your nature is reason, your nature is awareness. The soul is a being, it is not a non-being, it is an awareness, it is not an unawareness. And so the guide of awareness is reason. So when you apply your awareness, your attention, your reason to these questions, and you say, I do not want to take this belief from anyone else. I don't need to take this belief away from anyone else. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe. It is just that I am realizing for me, this has not done me any good. I'm not saying it has done me any bad, but it hasn't done me any good. It hasn't shown up in my experience. So why am I leaving leading my entire life by it? Why am I considering every other question on the basis of this thing which has not been shown to me to my satisfaction? So I want to tell you this. When you leave your personhood, just for a moment, when you leave your association, when you detach from your nationality, from your name, from your family background, from your cultural background, from your age, your so-called status, your so-called reputation, your dreams, your goals, your wishes, your regrets, your worries, your past, your future, your story, your narrative, your expectations, everything. Isn't it what you call your soul that remains? And does that soul have a nationality?

SPEAKER_05 40:23

No.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

That soul, as you said, does not have a nationality. That soul in that logic also does not have an age. It does not have a name, it does not have parents, it does not have a favorite football team, it does not have regrets, it does not have any uh incompleteness, it does not feel lack, it does not fear feel anxiety, it doesn't envy, it is not angry, it does not wish other people ill, it is full and complete and at rest. And as in the Christian religion it says, and also in in Islam and many other things, um you are created in the image of God. Image means likeness, to be like something. Not to be physically like something, of course, to be like similar, of the same nature of the same spirit. So you have been made in the same spirit, of the same nature of God. And again, God is a synonym for truth, and truth is a synonym for God, meaning you have been made in the spirit, you have the spirit, the nature of awareness, of being, of existence. You are a positive, not a neutral or a negative. You have existence, not non-existence. And that awareness, that existence, that completion, that roundness, that that fullness does not lack anything.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

It is complete.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

It doesn't have desire, it doesn't have regret, it does it is not in battle with anything, it is at rest. So when Socrates says, to go to get to your second question, when Socrates says no one can harm another, this is what he's saying. No one can make another person better or worse. And he's speaking more of the person rather than the soul, so-called soul, the essence, the awareness that we have, our our very existence, right? Our virtues, even our goodness, our truth, our love, even that comes after being. Everything we do in justice and truth and love, we do uh out of the ground of being, we do out of our existence. We cannot do it without existing. The lights are on. The lights are on. Everything comes after that. So he's not talking necessarily about that being, that awareness, that first existence, that fundamental being. Uh he's more talking about the person afterwards. Uh but still no one can make you more loving or less loving, no one can make you less honest, no one can make You less fair. No one can make you less kind, less understanding, less wise, so to speak. You are exactly what you are. No better, no worse. And so people can only hinder the personality. They can hinder your personality. Our speaker before said he in his unaware moments, he has this thought, I wish I had found philosophy earlier. Right? So people can can perhaps, maybe, this is a hypothetical, who knows, right? But people can perhaps delay you finding philosophy, religion, whatever you think is the practice of that which gets you to truth. But they cannot harm truth. This is what I want you to understand. They cannot harm justice, they cannot harm love, they cannot do anything to it. They can also not make it better. And this goes for all of us. When we're here trying to fight for justice, trying to fight for truth and love in the name of love. We cannot defend love, not because we're unable only, but because love does not need our defending. Nothing can happen to love. Think of it like this. Once again, I want to give you one other way to think about it. You can look at a tree, at a single tree in the garden of your house, wherever, and uh anything can happen to that tree. Absolutely correct. It can burn, it can be cut down, it can get a disease, it can get too dry and die. All kinds of things can happen. The wind can blow it and um knock it over. But whatever happens to that tree, it does not matter at all to the concept, the blueprint, the idea of tree. Nothing. Even if every single tree on earth in the entire universe is cut down and not a single tree exists any longer, the idea of tree is still there, perfect. Yes, it does not have a physical manifestation, no longer, or perhaps, at least not for now, maybe on some other planet or this very planet when the conditions are right again, just like it they were right the first time trees started emerging on this planet, perhaps those conditions exist on some other planet or will exist once again, or they will never exist. Either way, the concept, the blueprint, the idea of tree, nothing has happened to it. And just in the same way, awareness, an individual body can be hurt, it can be damaged, let's say, it can be um nurtured, it can receive the proper nutrition or a lack of nutrition and all these things. But the soul, what you call the soul, what I would call the awareness that is within each individual, within each existing thing, that takes no color from anything. And so truly, no one can harm your soul, no one can keep your soul back, no one can make your soul better, also, no one can nourish it. It is that which already is, which all being comes from. And so when when again, and then the Bible says you have been created in the image of God, God is what? God is perfect. So you're created in the image of that which is perfect. You are an instance of that. And again, look, I'm not relying on any Bible or any or the Bhagavad Gita or or any other thing. This is just a different way of putting. This is humans 2,000 years ago in that particular culture when they were writing the Bible. This is what how they pronounced it, this is how they expressed it. But it's the same fundamental truth that is everywhere and expressible in many different ways. It is seen in science, it is seen in so-called religion, it is seen in so-called philosophy, and and uh it is seen by people who have never heard of either religion or science or philosophy. It's just one way of expressing it. And truth is difficult to express because truth is before language and it is not in need of language and all that, but uh we can we can make an attempt. We can point at it. We cannot talk about it directly, but we can point at it. And so this is what uh what I wanted to point out to you. Leave everything behind. It is your uh privilege to do so. And once you left everything behind, only take back in, or rather, realize what cannot be taken out, and devote yourself only to that. Only to that. Because that is what remains is the truth. What remains is that which cannot be taken out, that which cannot be ignored, that which cannot be unseen. And that which cannot be unseen is that which is which is real and true and good and everything. So why not devote yourself to that? And as you notice, that truth which is which remains, which cannot be taken out, which cannot be ignored, which cannot be unseen, that truth requires nothing from you. It has never asked you to prove anything to anyone. It has never asked you to know information, to become of a certain intellect. It has never asked you to become of a certain status, of a certain wisdom, and to have something that others do not have, to have something special, to have something valuable, to have something rare. It has never asked you to fight for it. It has never asked you to sacrifice to it. It's never asked you anything. It said, I am you, and you are me. And in that stillness, in that being, we give life to all else. Even our false beliefs, even our wrongdoings, our attachments, our desires, our goals, our wishes, our regrets, our shame takes life from this source. It cannot take its being, its existence from anything else. It all comes from this. And so this is the true self that animates all else cultural beliefs, opinions, political views, world views, uh, your affinity for one person and your resentment towards another, all take their life, the electricity to do that, the fuel they take from this core, true, fundamental being, that that which you truly are, the true self, etc. Especially being being from India. Um, I think you know more than most people, you've heard this thing that the true self, the true self, the true self. And uh the f as you know, the false self takes its being from the true self. So it is our privilege to notice where our life force, so to speak, is going, where the electricity bill is going, who's using it? Who's tapping into my power? It is the identity of the reincarnated one who is looking for salvation, who is looking for his final incarnation before they can join the oneness. That too merely is something that happens within the true self. It is not the true self. It is it happens in the space of the true self. It is one little blip, little something going on in the space of the true self, that which you truly are. And so there's nothing wrong with it. You don't need to go fight it. You don't need to say, how dare you exist in this sacred space of the true self. No. It cannot touch the true self, it cannot make the true self better or worse, it cannot do anything to you. Let it let it play around. You will see its unreality and you will naturally stop giving life to it. But when you when you first discover it or as you're seeing it and it keeps coming back, let's say, let it let it come, let it go. You are that which does not come and go. You are the unchanging one. Uh observe the change, let let it do its thing, let it move around. Um just observe that and and realize you need nothing. You never did. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Yes, it does make sense. Okay, and this this is our privilege, this is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 54:04

Yeah, yeah. Also, like I also want to say something, like uh when I was reading uh discourses, my pick Titus. Before that, just before that, I was reading Bhagavad Gita, right? And I realized that uh I was just reading a summary of Bhagavad Gita, but Bhagavad Gita is quite a bulky book. And when I was reading epic um uh that uh discourses, right? It is it is a small one, it has around 200 to 300 pages only. I could I I I think a lot of many teachings are very similar. Like the the way they are trying to let us understand about the reality is different. As you just mentioned that the times and it was written 2000 years ago, and um uh discourses was also written so many years ago. Based on their political like situation and all of that, they have shared the message but in different ways, right? Exactly. If you want, if you would ask summarize both of the books, there could there would be a lot of similarities in between these those two. So our teachings are very similar as well. But the truth is one. Yeah, that is the reason behind that.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

The truth is one. There is no my truth, your truth, an old truth, a new truth. Truth is one. And um everyone's looking at it from different perspectives, perhaps, right? Epictetus is looking at it from a per different perspective, the Buddha is looking at it from a different perspective. Um, you are looking, I are looking from a different perspective, perhaps, but we're all looking at the same thing. And because we're looking at it at a different perspective, we have different ways of talking about it. And different ways of perhaps getting there. Our journeys are different, our our biographies are different, our narratives are different, our opinions are different, but we're all looking at the same thing. And so, and then of course there are there's delusion, there's illusion, there are people who think they're looking at something who are not really. But again, those are people who are lost in abstraction. And it is easy to get lost in abstraction. It is not a failing of theirs, they're not stupid. And they're certainly not evil or anything like that. It is it is possible to get lost, and then we all do. But what do we come back to? And and where do we take our energy to get lost? It comes from that true self, from the true being. It comes from a source. And so uh detach, detach, detach, detach. See what is left. Inexperience. Don't read a book, uh, what is detachment, and then detach yourself from those things. Detach from everything that you think you are, from everything that you are thinking, from all your beliefs. And if they're true, they must come back. They will come back themselves. They'll say, You cannot, you cannot deal without me. And you will see it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

I know, and I appreciate that uh your questions very much, because once again, and as always, uh this is something that everyone is dealing with. Everyone is dealing with. You cannot have an experience that is outside of human nature because you're a human.

unknown 57:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

So you are not weird, you are not strange, you are not incompetent, you are not any of these things. Whatever you're dealing with, you're dealing with human nature. And so uh I will I will put you back to the audience uh with great gratitude. Thank you so much. And like I told you, everyone's dealing with the same things and the solutions are the same. However, the way you verify that a solution is true, that you are really looking at truth and not some semblance of it or a veiled version of it or straight up illusion, is if it shows up in your experience. If it doesn't, it is either not true or it is not for you to know anyway. And and why go there when there are so many things for us to know and deal with? With that said, I will take our I'll invite our next speaker.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Um I was wondering if you'd like to talk about justice.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

Sure, always.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Um, because you've talked a lot about um like who you really are, um, and about what love is and and peace um and truth. Um, and you often list justice. And I'm having um it's hidden from me how that fits into um everything else that uh like accepting the universe and and everything else that you've been talking about.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

What's the what's the confusion or what's the what seems to not fit in?

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Um I guess the way that I think about justice, there there are two different ways of looking at it. There's what's within my control. So um I don't know, say that I I um I'm throwing a ball and I break someone's window, it would be just for me to like replace that window for them. And I can do that if it's like within my means. But um, like the justice system or like forcing justice on other people, like, oh, they have done something wrong. Um, and now you deserve a punishment, and so you are now going to be punished. That's a little um confusing to me.

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Well, the the justice system is not justice. The justice system is uh a human institution or or a combination of multiple human institutions, uh human-made things, that at least uh aim to do what to be of the nature to be in alignment with, to be in accordance with justice, capital J, right? The idea, the concept, the non-physical reality of what is right. That's what justice is, what is right. And the failing of the justice system is not the failing of justice itself, it is a misalignment with justice. Because uh the justice system, like I said, is just a human institution. There is no justice itself does not preside over it. Otherwise, of course, it would be perfect. But that is sort of going between the physical and the non-physical realm. You just talked about, you know, the ball example. There it is a non-physical act, uh an idea, a thought, uh a movement that you're experiencing when you say, This is what is right. My intention, my actions have caused, again, just physical. It's it's a it's a physical analogy, but it has beside the broken window, it has caused a non-physical injustice. And, you know, because I have no right to damage other people's property in that sense. And so I know what is right to do. That's acting in accordance with justice. And when the justice system properly executes the just law that it has invented for itself, then it is perhaps acting in accordance with justice. And if if there's corruption, if there's a mistake, if there's ignorance, if there's whatever, and uh what the justice system does is different than what is right, then it is simply a human institution being misaligned in action with capital J, justice, the concept, the idea, the truth, uh, which is justice. Justice is nothing other than, uh, in real terms for ourselves and our lives, it is nothing other than doing the right thing, no matter what may come. There's no other consideration for justice than what is right. And we do that to the extent that we are involved in doing so. That's it. We are not responsible for um whatever some some something that happened that involved uh physical bodily damage to 16 people. If we are the jury, then we are we do our duty according to justice to the extent that we are, that we're one of ten jury people, and so we do our part. That's what justice, that is what is being in accordance with justice. If then the whole case, despite you doing your your duty as as the juror results in a less than just, a less than fair, less than right sentencing or procedure, whatever, that is not on you. Right? So I want I don't want to say that we are responsible of anything like that. You are responsible for your own alignment, your own accordance with justice, just like you are with any other thing that we mentioned. Love. Does that make more sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

So justice is just doing what's right, regardless of what the consequences are. Yeah. And that's basically living in line with the virtues, like so acting out of love.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

Yeah, I mean, what uh there are many, many of our ancient Greek philosopher friends say that justice is the ultimate virtue, or rather the virtue that all other virtues take their uh guidance from, so to speak. Because, yeah, if you think about it, to be honest is to just say the right thing, say truth, and that is just. Uh, to love is just, right? To to not steal is just. So, yeah, in in in many ways, all the virtues take their guidance from justice. But yeah, I would say in in simple terms, like I said, in our in our daily lives, in our experience, to be guided by justice just comes back to to do what is right no matter what may come. Because as soon as we think about other things, right, we know what's right. It is right for me to replace the window. Oh, but you know what? No one saw me do it. And I'm sure of that. And so I could definitely, if I wanted to, I could just not replace it. But this is exactly what justice is, justice, no matter what may come. Or um, I do the right thing, and as a result of me doing the right thing, there are a lot of ignorant people that are going to be angered by that. And they're going to be offended by that, and I might in turn then receive some injustice. That is beyond justice. That is, again, not what justice looks at. Justice only looks at if you are doing the right thing or not, no matter what may come.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

I guess when I was thinking about it before, it was a very external thing. It had to do like it was an interpersonal justice. In terms of like how people relate to each other. But the way that you're explaining it is something that's um just within you, it makes it something that's totally in your control.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Yes, like we like we talked before, it's all about intention. Everything else is outcome. You are only responsible and therefore only in control and only in control and therefore only responsible of your intention. And if you make justice, again, in simpler words, that which is right, your intention, then you are only responsible of your own uh disposition, of your own actions, of your own thoughts, of your own beliefs, of your own um actions to a certain degree, even. But intention, intention, intention. This is what I'm saying. If you make justice your intention, you cannot go wrong, and there is nothing else that you are responsible of. You you are, because we say intention is important, okay. So, but what is intention guided by? Is it guided by maximum profit? Because then that would mean very different things. Um, is it guided by bodily pleasures? That would mean a very different thing. What shall we pick as our guide for our intention? This is why we talk about justice, because justice is the right thing to pick. If you make um justice and generally truth and love, of course, um your guide for your intention, you cannot go wrong. It's impossible. And you have no need for shame, for regret, for an unfulfilled desire, for worry, for anxiety, nothing, because you have made your intention, your will, one with justice and love, and and you've done all of that. What else could you possibly do?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Right, but no one does wrong willingly. So if that's if that's true, then everyone thinks they're acting in accordance with justice.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

I wouldn't say that anyone is uh acting in accordance with justice who, for example, says wealth is the highest good. They will immediately not, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:29

Not in reality, but as far as they're concerned, as far as their intention.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

I don't see the the the problem with that is, in my opinion, who people who who think they are just but objectively are doing injustice, they never make justice their highest good. They are motivated by, let's say, power, and they say, okay, if I have the power, then I can do effect the right things, then I can affect change, and then I can do all of those things which need to be done. So they don't put justice first, they put power first, or wealth first, or fame first, or um retribution first, vengeance first, whatever it may be. So then they call that just, which is profitable. They call that just, which gives them retribution, they call that just, which gives them power. No one ever strips justice of everything else around it and just devotes themselves to that. When you devote yourself to simply that and nothing else, when you take, like we also talked about to the to the speaker before, when you take your entire personality out of it, you do not uh fight for your family anymore. You do not say, what is right for my family is what is right. You do not say, what is right for me is what is right. You do not say what is right for my nation, for my religion is what is right, but you simply say what is right is right. Then all of a sudden, it changes. And everyone who's doing injustice, objectively, none of those people have stripped themselves of themselves. They have not emptied themselves of themselves, and they're still full of desires, dreams, wishes, vengeance, resentment, anger, hatred towards something. So many people call that injustice which favors that which they hate. Those people who do not share the same values as them. So they're not putting justice first, they're putting a certain agenda first. They're saying, I grew up in nature, I I watched nature be taken over by this or that company and and destroyed that part of that I grew up, and that always instilled in me this uh this need for protect nature, because nature is so precious and it's so beautiful and it's so important, and of course, all of that is true, but once again, it comes from a personal idea of what is right. Because the people who simply devote themselves to justice and nothing else and do not call that just which they think is right for which they are fighting, they can do everything unemotionally. If we have anger in us, if we have resentment in us, if we have disappointment in us, um, hatred, envy, anything like that, pride also, all the so-called good emotions, we cannot operate out of justice. Because the universal rightness, that which is universally right, has nothing to do with emotion. You simply see an injustice being committed, and what is an injustice? For example, um, freedom, someone's freedom being violated. And here again, we need to know what we're talking about. When I say freedom, I mean to do the ability to do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't impact someone else's ability to do whatever they want. That's freedom. So, according to that definition, someone is doing something that limits another person's freedom, another person's ability to do whatever they wish, that is simply an injustice. Whether it's happening to my family or to a complete stranger or to an animal, uh, is completely irrelevant. It is not the right thing. And so I take the rational, logical, simple, fundamental steps that I can and need to take. So I think to boil it down uh for your question, I think uh we can know what justice is objectively when we strip ourselves of everything that is individual and personal. And what we then still are able to perceive as right and that which goes against right, that is simply what justice is. That's what we're seeing sort of all over the world. Every war, every injustice, every crime committed is committed out of, as you said, ignorance, out of an unawareness of this. So that's how I think of justice. When I when I strip of everything that makes up my so-called personality, my so-called background, and and everything, what I feel is special, what I feel is important, and I still feel that this is what is happening as just or uninjust. That's to me when I know the core essential, the truth, the true justice and injustice.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

It's interesting that you include uh religion as part of like something that you've taken on and identified with. Um, because often, like with religion, it's seeking something um greater than yourself. So you are kind of taking yourself out of it um with religion. But you're right that if you still feel like anger and hatred, that can't be um from truth. Um but trying to find truth um through like philosophy, it feels kind of like it's also taking on a persona. 100% like, oh, these are just beliefs. Um, like these are my new set of beliefs and what I operate from and what I think is truth. And I've taken myself out of it and I am in alignment with truth. Um, even though people who um identify with religion feel like they're doing the same thing. It's just that what you're like what you said before about the fruits of it, um, really tell you if you're on the right track.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:35

Yeah, and also uh, of course, philosophy, to engage with philosophy can be an identity, and to engage with religion can be identity, and to engage with religion can also be done without identity, and same with philosophy. It's not about the thing itself, it's when we confuse the ladder, the path, with the thing itself. Religion is a ladder for us to use to get to truth, to get to God. Uh, philosophy is a ladder. It's nothing other than that. It's not the it's not the thing itself. Philosophy is not truth. Uh, religion is not truth, or all the various religions is not the truth itself. It what it is supposed to be in its ideal, most perfect state, it is that which points at truth, which says, go this way, uh, consider letting go of this, consider being guided only by this, and see where that gets you. And then uh again, ideally, um the the truest intention of that would be that it would get you to God and what or or to truth, like we said, these are synonyms. And once you're there, you can see that which brought you here also needs to be let go of. This is the this is the mistake we make, right? This is the the so-called ignorance to say uh the religion or the philosophy, the path itself is sacred. That itself must be defended. And of course it should be defended in a physical way. If if we find that there's a particular philosophical school that is quite conducive and uh is it's conducive to finding truth, to becoming unencumbered and to let go of the identities, etc., everything, the false self, then of course we should uh protect that in a physical way, in in whatever way we can, as far as it is as just, as far as it is loving, um, and never, of course, crossing online, otherwise I would defeat the whole purpose. Um but we do not call that sacred, and we do not say this is uh better than all else. And uh others should vanish and and this should this should keep going and and this should be taken from that to given to be given to this. Uh, that's when we lose ourselves. And it does happen to so many people. Um you know that's a that's a point open to debate if that is the right thing to do or not. Many people are against religion, are against the paths, they're against philosophy. They they say, you know, that's just another identity. And it's true, it is another identity. It is the identity that transcends all lower identities, right? When you sort of give yourself to Islam, for example, Islam, the very word itself, means submission. It means submission to God, submission to truth, and and all else is unimportant. And you have the same thing in Christianity, you know, when Jesus says you follow me and nothing else. This I am the way, I am the path. It's true, but when we identify as the seeker, that is also just an identity that at some point we must let go. Because the seeker is also just something changing, something that comes and it goes. But when we remain in that, we remain in the changing in the in the manifest, in the in the lower realm, so to speak. And so, yeah, you're you're absolutely right. It is it is just a different path. But this is what people respond to. You know, people of a certain cultural background, people who live in a certain time in a certain location, they respond to one thing more than another. They respond to one pointer more than another. And so I do believe that, you know, I'm not someone who's fundamentally against religion or or any other philosophy, philosophical school, whatever. Um, so long as it takes itself to be the latter and not the thing itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:54

Okay. Thank you for answering my question.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Okay, did that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:03

Yes, it did.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:04

Okay, anything that didn't make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Um, well, you made a separation between like the justice system and what act and justice, and so I think that that distinction makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

Okay. Yeah, and and uh thank you for your question. This is once again something that we're all dealing with that we have to deal with for ourselves. We have to come to this realization. And if it offends us, we need to also realize that there is uh a sort of an identity there, a sort of a friction there, something that still does not want peace. And um religion is often that point for many people, of course. And and to discover what justice is for ourselves, and this I want to mention too before we move on from that. My definition or my way of talking about justice is I do not consider it to be the way. It is my own personal connection that I have to what I believe justice is. And it it works for me, it shows up in my experience, it uh gives me clarity, and I am well satisfied with the intention it puts me in and the and even the outcomes that come out of that intention, regardless of what they are. And uh I feel that I am responsible for exactly what I am in control of rather than being responsible for things that I simply am not able to affect. And so it works for me, it well and truly does. And therefore, I offer it as a suggestion to anyone and everyone who wants to talk about it and think about it. But ultimately, it is only my personal connection. And we can share and have the exact same personal connection, millions of people do. But um, ultimately, if it doesn't feel right, if it doesn't sit right, that is not a point against justice. It is a point against my understanding, my way of expressing it and my, I guess, in a way, personal belief of it. So I encourage everyone not to think that justice doesn't make sense just because what I say doesn't make sense, but to find their own meaning and their full and their own sense in it. So thank you very much. I it was it was great to hear from you. It's great to see you here, and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:31

I I have a response to the question. Oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:36

Yeah, that's great. So the question of the Fortnite, Fortnite is what will be the signs that you have arrived?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

Um, I think if arrive means found peace, one of the signs might be that you're not looking for signs anymore. Um Yeah, and I think uh in the beginning, uh you look for signs, like maybe checking in with your intention, is my intention it in the right direction? Um, but once you've actually arrived, um you don't even need to do that anymore. You just it's just so natural your intentions are directed correctly and and you aren't looking for signs anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:22

Amazing. Yeah. Are you looking for signs?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

Um I was gonna say yes because I uh feel like I need signs right now. Um, but that kind of goes against um what you say about how you can have it now. Um and um yeah, it it feels like it's a it's a direction, and my direction can go off course. Um but it's it's easy. I can instantaneously point it back in the right direction, and then like all is well again.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:07

But um amazing. Look, what you just said is everything. Do you realize that? Yes, that you can go off course all you want, okay? A thousand times a day you can go off course, but you know, you have seen that you have the ability and the reality to come back to it, to peace every single time. Peace doesn't go anywhere. You've correctly identified that you go somewhere sometimes, uh, but you realize that and you can you always have the ability to come right back where you are anyway. That is everything. That is everything. And and we're gonna get to that at some point too, and I want to give a little hint of that. Uh, is that the stepping out of peace, so to speak, however that might be defined or however it might feel like, is not a failure. It's not a failure. Oh, it happened again, oh no, I've I I finally want to have peace and and I lost it again, and and it's not a failure. Every single time it happens, it makes itself more obvious to you every time. And if it happens again, it just hasn't been obvious enough yet. This is this is our training, this is our vision being calibrated for what is peace, what is not, because peace is such a subtle thing. Right? Because peace is at peace, it's at rest. It is not flamboyant, it doesn't say, hey, I'm here. Motion does that, disturbance does that. Everything that is constantly at uh uneasy, not at rest, right? Dancing around. That's what tends to catch our attention, our awareness, our true being. And so we sort of have a pull towards that a little bit because we're so conditioned to that. But every time we realize, ah, I went with it again, that that is not peace. I my my attention went with it again. That only shows up next time when it happens. Oh, hold on. That's not the thing. Don't don't give in to there's a pull again. I can feel the pull. Peace does not pull. Peace is what I'm sitting on. So when I'm pulled, that's not peace. And it becomes more and more obvious, and at some point it's gonna be instinctual, no, it's not even gonna happen. And so it's not a failure. And this realization, I can go, but I can come back each and every time, is everything. It's everything that's peace talking, that's the nature of peace. And once you know it, you cannot unknow it. And once you see it, you cannot unsee it. And um, I you know, I want to ask you has this realization, because I'm sure at some point you did not have this realization, right? Because this is our starting point, is always we're incomplete, peace is off somewhere else, and we need to go get there, we need to achieve this and that, and then maybe. What has this realization done for you already? Even though it's not perfect, even though sometimes you catch yourself still looking for signs, but what has this realization that peace is always where it is and you can come back to it however many times you need? What has this done for you in your experience in your daily life for you already?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Like you've said before, um, falling out of it isn't a failure. It's just information. So that takes a lot of the negative emotion out of it. Um and it helps me be more present. So instead of like saying I need to do all these things so that at one point I will, you know, forever be at peace, it's I can have it right now, so I focus on the moment. And it's not doing these things so I can have peace in the future. It's knowing I can have it right now, um, which is empowering. Um and it also keeps me from seeking outside things. I know that it's completely attainable with who I am right now and what I have right now. There's no thing that will that will give me peace. Um I can have it now. Um yeah, and I think it's just it's it's it's not a habit yet. Like there's still the gravity of other things still pulling at me, but with with practice and like repeatedly correcting my intention, I think that is what arriving um is going to feel like, where I no longer even like feel the pull. Um because I'm yeah, so aligned. But even saying that it goes against the idea that I have it now, like I can have it now.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:20

See, and this is happening inside of you. As soon as this comes out of your mouth, there's something inside of you say, Hold on. Does this really make sense? Because this is again a pull, right? And now you're seeing that pull inside of you that wants to speak of peace as somewhere else, that wants to speak of arriving not yet happened. So this this knowledge, this this vision is as we're speaking right in front of us, it's developing in front of you. It can be seen. And again, this is just a vision of how things truly are, not a changing of things. So it's just our vision being aligned, which can which could technically happen instantaneously. We could go right now from uh everything is war and there's no peace, and peace is far off, I might not have ever have it, to being in perfect peace. Technically, we could get there in a moment. But it is this thing inside of us, this unawareness, this ignorance, you might call it the ego, you might call it the false self, the identities, whatever you want to call it, this conditioned self, right? This personality that needs to take it easy because it gets offended very easily and very quickly. And when you offend the false self, when it is still so strong, when it is ruling over your entire life, it might say, Okay, I've had enough of this, no peace for you, no thinking about it for you. And so we keep trying to take parts of it away, just a little bit, just a little bit, a little bit, until we realize, okay, I was always sitting on top of peace. And it was never anywhere else. Even when I was fighting my battles, I was fighting them on the ground of peace. And all I had to do was lay down my weapons and just go sit down. Uh, but again, there is no such time such a thing as time in peace as well. So peace is not waiting. It is not impatient, it is not about to leave. Okay. We can take as much time as we think we need and to develop this vision and to see this, and uh it will come. It will come. Someone who already knows this and is just merely in the process of catching themselves when they're every time when they're deviating from this from this clearer and clearer and clearer vision, someone like that has nothing to worry about. So you seeing this, again, don't let any voice in your head say, Oh, but you know, you still don't get it. You still don't know, you still catch yourself, you still s uh step out of it, etc., etc. Uh that those are the last gasps of whatever it is that has been keeping us from the simple realization, from the subtle, subtle thing that peace really is. And so don't allow worry, don't allow things, don't allow anxiety. That itself is just a little departure from peace, for uh from which you catch yourself and you come right back to it. And so don't resent anything. It's just making itself I'm not saying that you do, by the way. I'm just this is for all of us, including myself. We d need not resent any moment of disturbance, any moment of uh, I've fallen into unawareness again, out of peace again, whatever we think this is. Um let it happen. Let it happen. It's already naturally moving. Now the things that you are seeing, have already seen, you cannot unsee, even if you wanted to. You could not get rid of them. It's impossible. Just as those things are impossible now, these things of which we are catching ourselves still doing, they're gonna become just as obvious too in due time. So that's that's an uh uh an amazing response. And I've already started talking about my response uh involuntarily because I had to, because it's yeah, it's exactly what I what I would have said, what you are, I think, experiencing and expressing. And so I find that very beautiful and very, I hope, inspirational for everyone here. Uh, because you are not, uh, as far as I know, a human being who has been born perfect and has never made a mistake and has never had any, not had any regrets or shame or guilt or worry or anxiety. And you are saying, I can see peace. And you are saying I I occasionally still catch myself, or a thousand times a day, it doesn't matter, but I know peace and I know truth and I know effortlessness, and I'm developing a vision of it. So if you can do it, we can do it too, and if and if we can do it, everyone can do it. And so uh I appreciate you uh sharing everything you've shared here today. Any other questions or things you you want to say or share?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:22

No, that's it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:24

Okay, perfect. Yeah, thank you once again. I will move you to the audience, and uh again, have I said it before or not? This is happening right in front of our eyes. This is not theory, this is something that is really going on in real lives. Peace is for you to have. In fact, you already have it. It is only for you to see that you already have it and let that take as much time as it wants. Time means nothing. Time means nothing. I I sometimes give this example, right? When we are in the middle of let's say, exams when we're studying or a stressful period at work, it feels like it's boy it's been going on forever, and it feels like it it's going to go on for so long. But when it finally does end, it almost feels like, oh, okay, that was not nearly as long as it felt like. When you when we uh develop this vision, we're gonna say, wow, um I guess I there was a time when I didn't see this, but it really doesn't seem that imminent anymore, and it doesn't seem that big of a deal anymore at all. Everything within you that gives you worry, gives you anxiety, gives you stress is something trying to trying to remain alive, and it's its last tricks, its last uh friction and resistance towards the true self, which it cannot withstand. So I will invite our next speaker real quickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:22

Alright, so I I just wanted to share with you all something that I've been uh thinking about lately, and it was about how language basically um kind of affects our thinking process and everything. I mean, it's not really that serious that academic, but I was, you know, you trigger me an observation when you when you say to me, like, um, look, we're not our thoughts. Like the thoughts that we have, we we're not really in control of the of the thoughts, which was mind-blowing for me because I I don't know, I took for granted, like, okay, I'm the one who was thinking, I'm thinking. Um, so yeah, that was really brilliant observation. Um, and then I was also observing like the difference between um, you know, the broy sister and the stoices. Like people in Italy, because I'm Italian, um usually when they read Marcus Marcus Aurelius, they're very chill, chill person, chill people. But I was thinking, I mean, why in the United States people are starting to share statues, muscle statues with Marcus Aurelius and Funk.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:57

So it's funny to see the images of Marcus Aurelius with a six-pack and all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:03

When in reality, he was actually uh he had a lot of I think health issues and he was a relatively small person, right? So it's it's it's funny. Yeah, I mean, and you're gonna show us that. And by the way, just to give a little bit of background, I invited uh Julia to come here because she sent me an article that she wrote exactly about what she's going to be talking about. And it's exactly this um effect that language has, and this is why things can get lost in translation or change in translation. This is why this is a thing. There's never a perfect equivalent. And in this case, she's going to point out, I think, how language affects our view and the very attitude, actually, in which we express and practice these ideas and how different Marcus Aurelius sounds. And in fact, then also has very different effects when read in a language such as Italian versus English, versus perhaps also other languages that we both don't know of. Um, and this is exactly where this comes from, right? The Marcus Aurelis with the six-pack. We imagine him like that because in English he sort of sounds like that. And and you're gonna tell us about how in in Italian it doesn't really um come across like that by the very language itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:25

Um, yeah, I mean, in Laysian languages we have, which I think in English is missing the reflexive and the impersonal. And the impersonal is like I don't want to say in Italian, but I have to say it like um si pensa avanti, which means thinking happens and life happens itself. That would be the closest translation in English, which would be translated in English to make sense. Um we think and life moves forward, or we think and life moves on, something like that, which sounds different. And there are certain sentences like this one. Um let me hold on a second.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:23

Yeah, take your time.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:27

Um, yeah, in English it says Marcus Aurelius, be not disturbed nor on the rag. But in Italian we say um do not agitate yourself, non agitarti, and do not uh do not anguish yourself, non darti troppa pena, which again the power here is that we say do not agitate yourself, but it's just one word, and uh and it's the reflexive word, and then we have like I mean my my favorite is the impersonal because the impersonal it's like you do not you do not need the subject, you are um writing and talking about the experience itself. For example, in Italian we say um how things are going, that's the question, and we say si va avanti, which means technically speaking, like the closest translation is going forward what happens, so it's more like philosophically we're saying, you know, uh life going forward is happening, and I'm confident, everyone is doing this, and and we have no choice.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:56

We flow in the river experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:59

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And uh, I mean um the English translation, they actually make great great work to try the more reflexive and personal to make it like it is reflexive and then personal. But in my opinion, what I'm trying to say here is that in Italian it's like way more natural to set, I mean, that there's a middle layer between ourselves and our thoughts, like we are experiencing the thoughts, we are experiencing the feelings, and and there's a middle, like then we can decide what to do with it, then we can decide okay, to not anguishing ourselves, which is something that in English I feel like you have to spend more words to actually um make this concept like more evident. Um, and yeah, my question was if you ever like um because I guess you're bilingual, that was my speculation, but um if I don't know if you ever read um some stoic text even something uh in your native language, not not English language, and if that's something that you observe.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:33

Oh, absolutely. I mean they say uh you are as many people, as many languages you speak, right? They say that. Um and so it's really too true. Languages do make you think differently. Like when when um you speak a different language, you speak differently, you you think differently. So uh I speak German as well as also Turkish, which are which are also very different languages, right? I I think German and English is actually very similar. Um, but Turkish is very, very different than probably most languages, including uh the region it's from, it's also very different than than Arabic in very different in many ways. It has a mix of, in terms of vocabulary, it's a mix of uh, of course, original Turkish, because Turkish is a is a very old language itself, but it's also mixed with French um and some Arabic words. And so I don't have any experience reading uh such texts as, for example, Marcus Aurelius or any of the Greek philosophers really. But what I do have experience with is, for example, reading Rumi. And uh people such as Rumi are extremely difficult to translate. Uh Persian to English is apparently they say because I don't know Persian, obviously, but they say it's almost impossible. And uh it's true, I I have such difficulty finding good translations of people such as Rumi. Um there's, for example, this this huge controversy going on. Uh the one, the the very popular translation of Rumi is made by a person called Coleman Barks, right? And it turns out that he is not at all directly translating Rumi at all, but he completely changing um the words in order to try to capture the essence, the feeling, the mood, the ideas of what Rumi is trying to convey rather than the words itself. So, for example, there's this uh famous passage uh in English of a translation of Rumi that says, Beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. And it's beautiful, but when you look at the original, it does not say that at all. It says beneath ideas of Islam and profanity, there is an emptiness, and this is our commonality, and the word Islam just means you know, behind um the divine, behind what is right, behind truth, so to speak, and profanity in the sense of ignorance, right? And everything that is lower than the divine. So uh even behind ideas of divinity and profanity, uh, there is emptiness, and this is our commonality. But in English it's translated as as beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing, there is a field, I will meet you there. Totally different, right? But it but it does it does somewhat capture the spirit, whereas if you literally translate it, people will say, What behind ideas of Islam and profanity and what? And so um I find it in a way correct, but I don't like reading things that are just not properly translated. So it's very difficult to read something like that and to say um this is a translation of Rumi, even though, yes, somewhat in the spirit it is. And that's what they say. Uh apparently when Persian they they got a few Persian people to read it. This is how uh the person who translated Rumi justifies it, and they say, okay, it captures it it captures the nature of Rumi. Um so it's difficult. And but I find actually the original, you just need more perhaps some more information, some more background on what is meant by those terms. But when you do know that, I do find also the the reward to be greater than to say behind ideas of right doing and wrongdoing. It's simpler and it makes it accessible, and it and perhaps this is why Rumi has been so uh popular. But what we're reading are actually not at all the words that Rumi wrote. So I find that interesting. And and this is, I think, a good example to what translation does and how different languages can be and how they make us think about things differently. Um so that's very interesting. So and everyone here, I I do think we have quite a few, at least bilingual people here. I think they're all nodding uh already, they already know this, how different languages make you speak. Although I have to say, uh a lot of things are possible in English. You know, I think English is a good language, even though sometimes it might sound a little forced. You can, if you really want to, if you really know what you're doing, I think you can uh get it to sound true to the original and also convey the sense. I don't know, is is that your experience?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:23

I mean, I'm reading, writing English, like since uh almost 10 years of work. So I find I find English extremely one of the best languages to convey any idea. Um especially technical because I can I come from academia, but yeah, almost everything, but you have to force yourself um especially especially if you I mean you go into the lyrical poetry. Like I'm I'm also learning Spanish right now because I'm I'm living in I live in Spa in Spain right now. And there's a sort of musicality in the language. Like I really in English, I really need to force myself to make some a paragraph some something musical, but in Spanish it's cheap. Like um so yeah, that's my idea. Like English is a perfect language for talking with every everyone and conveying ideas, but you you kind of need to make um make a step. Um be more intentional to make the ideas spread better.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:58

But it's because you know the idea of forward like um like um thinking happens to me is actually it it's more how can I say um it's better because it actually it it is the physicality of it, like beside that I am thinking, yes, I'm thinking, but also thinking happens, feel the feeling happens, the emotion happens, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:33

And especially when it comes to philosophy, right? I mean, that's what you know, if if a philosophy is teaching uh detachment from the personal, to then say, you know, I am anguished. Uh the the the Italian might better point out there is something in between you and being anguished, the emotion of anguish. You are the one making the connection, you are the link, and it is not automatic. You are the one allowing that to happen. This is stoicism to say this, right? To say there is no direct connection between emotions and thoughts. You are the one letting them in. And Marcus Aurelius, in fact, says uh, before you let any impression pass, examine it. And so a language that is also points this out by its very nature is of course very useful to a philosophy such as Stoicism. And so, especially when it comes to philosophy, it's uh these these differences become even greater. And that's the same thing with Rumi. You know, Rumi is just also just philosophy, really, if you think about it. And so uh it's important. However, we also don't need to really get hung up on that, right? We don't need to think, oh no, I need to learn Greek and Latin and all these things. Not necessarily. I mean, if you if you you will, if you read enough, if you understand the people enough, um, you will get an intuitive sense of what is meant, right? And you will, even without knowing the original language, you will probably pick up on which translation is better uh suited for what I'm reading. But yeah, this is not something I think you would agree to get hung up on. Um, just read, read, read. It's not a reason not to read something, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:18

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I did it because you know, I had these questions in my mind, and I just wanted to, you know, um yeah, curiosity, but yeah. It's correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:36

No, no, absolutely. I'm I'm not saying you shouldn't look into it. Uh, you you have an in you have an interest in it and you have the capability of perceiving these differences, and it is very, very interesting. Um, I just don't want to give the message that, oh, you know, uh everything we're reading in English uh like that is somehow we're never going to get the true meaning of it or something. No, if you if you really listen, you will I think language is no barrier either. Uh, but it is a very interesting thing, and that's why uh I asked you to, if you feel like it, share these ideas with us, because we're also very interested in uh, of course, science in general, right? And and the language, the science of language is just another sign. So it's interesting to see these things and what we're dealing with. And uh it just again points out the individual differences, but the universal commonality at the end that we also have. And so we're just going through it uh in different paths, like we talked about different religions, different philosophies, but we're all going coming to the same truth. Whether it's through uh Latin or Italian or English or German or whatever, we all have access to these same ideas. And uh to me, it's beautiful that something like that, even at all, can translate, you know, even if not perfectly. It's the it's it's the amazing uh privilege we have in our age that Marcus Elias is translated into English at all. There was a time when all of Plato was sitting in the archives of the Vatican, and and no one knew about it, and no one was able to read it. Even the Bible, no one was allowed to read. Right? You went to church and had it read to you, parts of it. And so now we live in this amazing age where everything is accessible, everything you can buy for five dollars, whatever, the right, Marcus River's meditations. Anyone can have it, anyone can read it in their language, and this is our great privilege. And so for us to sit around and say, um, the world is getting worse and worse, and to focus on other people's beliefs and opinions and what they say, when we always have this ability to retreat into ourselves, as Marcus Survey says, and what's perhaps not perfectly translated, but to be with these ideas and be with these people and to develop them, develop this vision within ourselves, it's a huge, huge privilege. And um I thank you for pointing that out and and for being here. Uh welcome back here, by the way. I know you were you were gone for a little bit, which is absolutely fine. You're always welcome. This place always exists for you and for everyone else here. And um, as long as you want it, it is here for you. And uh I appreciate that you came back and especially with such valuable uh ideas and insights and information for us for us to consider and and enjoy. So uh I thank you for that. And I do want to ask you the question of the Fortnite. If you're willing to answer, you don't have to answer, but uh if you do, what will be the signs that you have arrived?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:03

Um I don't know, I just feel good. Um I I can I can say uh yesterday felt arrived because I took a nap in my um uh cured. And um I had something to do, uh I said, okay, no. I just I just wanna sit here having a nap and beam away my thumbs. So I guess I guess I was arrived. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:32

Contentment. Yeah. I appreciate that. So uh yeah, once again, thank you for everything you brought. Thank you for your answer to the question. And I will put you back to the audience for now. Thank you very much. And uh yeah, what an amazing see. This is this is the amazingness of this place. Look at all the ideas, look at all the people, look at all the uh activity that is going on here that you don't need. You don't need anything else, you don't need anyone else, but how enjoyable it is for aware people to be among each other and to share uh things from philosophy, religion, science, uh, personal experiences of truth, of justice, to be talking about, hey, what even is justice, by the way? I'm confused about that. I like that. That's great. And um, we all have to find our own personal connection to these things. Like I always say, my definition won't do for you. It might be a good suggestion for you. You might find a lot of commonality in there, you might find some uh insight in there, and I might find some in yours, but ultimately we all have to put it together for ourselves. And and that's a privilege, by the way. That is not uh, I wish I could just go buy it from a store. No, it won't do, it won't do, it wouldn't satisfy you, it really wouldn't. Because that that is what millions of people are are in fact doing. They think they are going somewhere and receiving truth, and all they have to do is write it down or read it, and to uh practice it every day, go through the motions, and that's that's all there is to it. It truly is not, and that's why so many people, most people, are not satisfied with their living experience when we all not only have the right, but the capability to do it right now. And this is a connection to uh my answer to the question of the Fortnite, which is what will be the signs that you have arrived? The fact that we're looking for signs is something we don't need to do, and in fact, we must not do, and I want to tell you why, because I want it to make sense to you personally, and you can examine this for yourself. How can the person who does not yet have peace know what the signs are going to be of having arrived? How can the person who has not yet arrived know what arriving is like? Whether you take your arrival to be happiness, contentment, uh peace, stillness, wealth, whatever, whatever you think it is, how can the person who does not have it know what it is like to soon have it? How can it know what the signs are? How can it know what to look for? In other words, we have made these imaginations, these fantasies, these expectations, these narratives about what it will be like to be happy, what it will be like to be at peace, uh content, what it will be like to have arrived before we had it, of course. And now we are looking for those signs constantly. And we're not seeing them because we have a false idea of that which we have never seen before. People say, I uh I'm in I'm in agony, I don't have peace, I want peace. That's what I'm working towards. I'm working on myself. I'm working on myself to become like a better human being, to become a better stoic, a better Christian, a better Buddhist, a better whatever. And once I do that, if I work on myself enough, happiness will just appear. And in fact, don't most of us believe that somehow the clouds will part? That many people believe that God will speak to them. Many people will believe, believe that they will be overcome by an intense emotion, an intense feeling of having arrived. Aren't these some of the signs that we're looking for? Don't we believe that when we have worked on ourselves enough, when we have become close to God enough, when we have when we have enough wisdom, enough knowledge, that this amazing thing is going to happen to us where we're gonna have uh amazing vivid dreams, or we're gonna wake up and uh be in ecstasy and and experience bliss like we've never experienced before. Don't we have all these ideas in our heads of what it's going to be like? Those ideas of what we think is going to be like, and those signs that we are looking for are distracting us from the reality of what peace is, what happiness is, what contentment is. While we are looking for them, we are overlooking what arriving truly is. And this is not to say that we should make new signs. This is to say that we should let go of all signs. Because if peace is real, how can we miss it? If reality, if it is real, how can we miss reality? If it is true, how can we simply miss truth? If we remain open to it, of course we can miss truth, of course we can overlook peace. We do it, most of us do it all the time. But it's only because of our false attachments, it is only because of our false beliefs, our looking for signs that we do this. So when we let go of signs, when we let go of expectations, when we get let go of narratives, and just listen. What is the present moment telling us? What is reality showing us? What does our lived experience prove to us that we cannot help but notice? Why don't we try to listen to that? What if we gave up all this looking for the signs of arrival and just listen to reality? Just keep open, even if we can't hear anything yet. Just keep open. Let go of false beliefs. You know when you see a false belief, right? You you don't know what arriving is like, you don't know what the signs will be, but you do know what a false belief looks like. You see, I have been brought into contradiction, I have been brought into conflict, I have been brought into resentment and agony because of this exact belief. I can see it. So why not let go of that one and of the next one, and of another one, and of another one, and just see if at some point something doesn't happen. What is a surer way of arriving than to simply work on what is in front of you, what is clearly not working, and to dispose of that, and another thing becoming apparent that is not working, and to dispose of that and the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and to just give it to reality, to just give it to the universe, and to say, I have set my intention right. I am working on what's in front of me. The outcome, you will take care of. I have set my intention right, the outcome you will take care of. And so that's what I wanted to point out to you. What if we just let go of all signs and we just look at what happens, remain open, totally empty, no expectations. You can let go of expectation. Expectation will not let go of you. Only you can let go of narrative. Narrative will not let go of you. And if you let go of all your expectations, all your little stories, all your little personalities, all your little ideas about wrongdoing and right doing. Whatever comes as a result of that, isn't that going to be what arriving is? Naturally, logically, with reason, without imagination, without speculation, isn't this what reason tells us? So I invite you to stop looking for signs. You do not need signs, it will hit you in the face. But that again is another size, another expectation. Don't even expect that. Whatever will happen will happen. Our responsibility is nothing other than our intention. Work on your intention, don't even look at the outcome. Then again, how can the outcome be anything other than exactly what it needs to be if your intention is what it needs to be? And that's all I want to leave you with. I I'm already making it too complicated, and that's that's um a fault on my part and an inadequacy on my part. All I really want to tell you is realize that the one who has made those expectations and has and the one who is looking for the signs that it itself has made doesn't know what arriving is like. And so why listen to someone who has never experienced it? Just remain open, just remain empty. And how could we possibly fail if we do that?