You are a human being not a human doing

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We call these meetings kinship because we cannot help but see that the closest mutualities, the deepest commonalities, are mutualities based on ideas and not based on biography or biology. And that we cannot help but see that even if someone is our father, our mother, our brother, our sister, or our longest friend, if we don't have a certain set of ideas, beliefs in common, then we do not feel that kinship with them. And sometimes we are even blaming ourselves, or we are ashamed of the fact that we are unable to feel this kinship with people who are family, who are our longest friends, or that we share the same background with, however, you want to define that. And we think that there's something wrong with us, but that is not necessarily self. Because just because we are biologically or biographically related does not mean that we're going to have the same ideas, the same beliefs in common. Yet at the end of the day, this is what true kinship is based on. This is what everything, the most deepest commonalities, this is what they're grounded on. And vice versa, we can meet a complete stranger. And just by a word or two realize that, aha, this person too believes in truth. This person too believes in something greater than themselves, and sees the invisible behind the visible. And uh there's something in common here. Even though we never met, I don't know them, they're not biologically or biographically related to me at all. And we find that even with our friends who wrote books, some of them thousands of years ago, with them we connect in this way as well. We feel like we're kins. Like, wow, where has this person been? And even though we'll never meet them and they never knew we were to exist, of course, we call them friends. We feel that kinship with them. And so this is why these meetings are called kinship, because everyone here is only here because they feel that kinship, because they have that mutuality when it comes to certain ideas with all other people here. And when I say idea, I mean things such as truth, beauty, love, justice. No one here is biologically or biographically related, as far as we know. No one is paid here to be here, certainly. Yet we are still here because we are assembling around a certain set of ideas. And so truly, everyone here is your kin. And we are many, many miles apart, many of us, but it all still works, it does not require any so-called personal details. That's exactly what they are. They're personal, meaning, they are constricting, and they are not universal, and they are details. They are not that which everything is based on, which everything stands on. And so we don't need those personal details to have kinship. Not only do we not need it, in fact, in many ways, it is beneficial to not have personal details among kin. Because that's all of divisiveness lives in personal details.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

I have a lot of free time with several months ahead of me without any kind of work to do, and a question has been coming up, which is what's the benefit of inactivity versus activity? And I've been reading Emerson's essays, and he talks about the benefit of both inactivity and activity. I think meditation is basically doing nothing. So inactivity is a kind of meditation, and the benefit of that is by removing distractions, what's inside becomes more clear. Because underlying everything physical, there seems to be non-physical ideas. Yeah, so it seems to me that there's a benefit to both activity and the inactivity. I also see how because I have a lot of a lack of goals, a lot of free time ahead of me, it's also like a bad environment for the ego because for the ego it feels like I'm not moving towards anything. So I think there's an opportunity there, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on inactivity and negativity.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

I I think you bring up a very, very crucial, very, very important, very, very universal uh idea, which is actually very subtly discussed in many schools of philosophy and many also religions or thought traditions, let's say. And but it's a very subtle thing. Uh we we miss this all the time. We think that when we are doing something, we are living, and when we are not doing, we're not living. And so we're constantly looking how to be most productive when we don't even know what we are producing to what end. But as long as we're producing, we're living, it's fine. At least then we're doing something. Isn't that what people say all the time? Well, at least that way I'm doing something. But is this life about and I want to ask you this question, especially in this time of your contemplation, what you seem to be thinking about these days? If there even was a purpose, a reason that we are alive, let's say someone has created us and they expect something of us, even if that were the case. Even if that were the case, what do you think the purpose of life is? Is it doing or being?

SPEAKER_04 7:20

I think being comes naturally. But it's not like something to be achieved.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

So I think the more being Yes, and this this once again, this is such a s subtle thing, and when we say it it seems so obvious and it seems so well, what are the implications of that? It's so subtle. But the implication of this is actually everything, it's massive because even our doing is not possible without our being. This again, once said, seems so obvious, doesn't it? But we don't live with this fact, we do not realize this fact, and we certainly do not recognize this fact. No doing can be done without being. Yet, when we are not doing, we think we are not being. We measure our living, our life standard, certainly, by what we are doing. Not realizing that no doing is possible without being. So to all those people who are looking for the purpose of life, they're their um purpose in life and their goal in life, we are already, I want to say, jumping ahead to something that comes after being, and we completely overlook the being. And so whenever we have nothing to do, or whenever we are overwhelmed, and and that's why we are not doing something, we think that something is wrong. Actually, the only wrong thing is that we dis distract ourselves from the recognition of being by doing. So when we are doing, we're actually uh doing something wrong if we do not recognize this first fact that being is being and not doing, and that all doing is only possible by the being. The being does. A non-being cannot do. Even beings, if it's an inanimate being, cannot do, but it can be, it does exist. So this is the most fundamental ultimate fact to our existence is that we are beings, we are not doings. Right? We are human beings, we are not human doings. Our human doings are done by human beings. And so if the so-called lack of a to-do list, if no productive doing presents itself to you, and uh this situation stresses you out, and when I say you, I mean all of us here, if it gives us anxiety, if it uh if things come up that we usually are able to distract ourselves with are doing, then we are not in a bad way at all. We are coming in contact with this fundamental fact. And those people who come in contact with this fundamental fact and do not run away from it and dedicate themselves to recognizing it, those people are called enlightened, awakened. That's it. And I don't use those terms if you notice that. I don't talk about enlightened people and awakened and how to become enlightened, how to become awakened. I don't talk about those things because to become enlightened, to become awakened is yet another doing. And when we turn philosophy, religion, becoming enlightened, becoming awakened into a doing, we are actually moving further away from it. The so-called awakening, enlightening is yours anyway. There's no such thing as moving further from it, it is your actual reality already. It is just a recognition of this fact that we call the process of enlightening. And so there's nothing really being achieved there. There's nothing really being attained there. Quite the opposite. We are recognizing the fact that this is already the case. And we are doing that by letting go of false beliefs, of so-called vices, of mistakes, of false beliefs. Because the idea that we need to be doing in order to become worthy of our of the people around us, of our careers, of even philosophy and truth and love and beauty, this is the very false belief that keeps us from all of these things. Because we are busy doing, we are busy becoming, becoming enlightened, becoming worthy, becoming a more loving person, becoming a virtuous person, becoming a godly person. While we are doing these things, we are completely missing the reality, the being of these things. But for the mind, for the intellect, for the doer to not do is a failure. It is stagnation, it is rotting. And so that very condition keeps us doing and it keeps us from being, even though, of course, even in our doing we are being. And when you don't do anything, when you rest, you're content, you sleep, or again you engage in activities, there is that fundamental existence of yours, that being that underlies everything. And the simple recognition of this is not a doing. It is just a being. And again, this being is uh threatening to the doing mind, to the doing state. And uh it takes dropping false beliefs, identities, requirements, one's own expectations, as well as the expectation to live up to other people's expectations, to society's expectations, to one's own childhood fantasies, etc., etc. It takes letting go of all of these things that have been most cherished throughout our lives in order to attain the ultimate goal to which all of these accomplishments were only a means to, weren't they? To uh become a certain thing, whether this is a career or again, a virtuous person or uh a wise person, whatever you wanted to become, did you not always want to become this in order to find peace and the recognition of truth and reality? And so what are we doing still? Why are we doing it? And all these things, such as philosophy, such as our religions, whatever it is, all are reading, all are praying, all are meditating. All these things are there to get you beyond themselves. Please make sure that this is not too subtle to be missed. All practices, all doing are only right and proper if they take us beyond themselves. In other words, if we are praying and we are saying that we will pray for the rest of our lives, because praying is the proper practice, and as long as we are engaged in this practice, we are worthy, and if we slip up from this practice, we are unworthy. If we say this about meditation, if we say this about reading, if we say this about studying philosophy, if we say this about anything at all, that practice in and of itself becomes an obstacle to the very thing why we engaged in it in the first place. This is the most important thing. There is nothing wrong with praying. There's nothing wrong with studying philosophy, there's certainly nothing wrong with meditating. But if the practice becomes its own goal, then it is an obstacle, then it is a confinement, then it is the very thing that will keep you from the very thing why you started engaging with it in the first place. This recognition of the primacy of being, overdoing, and the true self, and the existence, the I am that underlies every single thing, not only in your activities, but in the entire world. Every single thing that happens or exists in the entire world, underneath it is an I am. I am. Every single flower with every single thing it ever does in its life or appears to be doing is the proof of its I am-ness, of its existence, of its being. And every single one of your activities or non-activities are also proof of your being, and in fact, we see that they cannot be done. They could not exist without that prior existence that is the fun foundation of every single thing. And so if you meditate to rest, if you pray to become worthy, if you study philosophy to unlock certain secrets of knowledge, you will never get beyond the practice, and you will always be a seeker. And there is like I said, I want to say this again and again, there is nothing wrong with being a seeker. Seeking is what gets you there. But to identify as the seeker and to remain as the seeker, or to intend to remain as the seeker is guarantee that the seeking will not end. And some people seek forever. Some people have been meditating for forty years, some people have been studying philosophy for sixty years, they have PhDs in it, and they have been teaching it for decades, and they are still seeking. But isn't philosophy to find and to be found? Isn't religion to find and to be found? Isn't every practice towards an end rather than a doing and a continuation of activity? And so this is what you're realizing now. You maybe asked a uh seemingly simple question or or brought uh forward a s a seemingly simple insight that you are discovering. But the simpler and the subtler, the more foundational and amazing and important it is to the end of seeking. And so I think I believe this is what you are seeing, starting to see, or have been seeing. And if you allow this vision to continue, once again, as you've correctly identified, this is not an activity, this is not a doing. Otherwise, this would just be yet another thing on our to-do list. Find out the secrets of the universe. Find out what the true self is. This is another to-do on the to-do list. No, this is something that just needs to be given space. As we talked about last week, our question of the Fortnite last week was what does it mean to empty yourself of yourself? It is exactly this. The activity can continue. But the intention of the activity that it is going to allow us to become something, make us worthy of something, or as long as we do it, we are living, we are alive, we are contributing, we are making something of ourselves. That is what is keeping us from this recognition that is available to us at any point, but we are not empty for it to fill us up. We are full already. We are closed off. We're saying, I'm good, I know, I know. And so, as long as we say that, how can we recognize something? We are closed. We are full. And so, if we empty ourselves of ourselves, meaning of our so called personality, of our so called preferences and uh beliefs and ideas that we have not questioned. Many many years are examined. If we let go of all these things, we can be empty. And once we are empty, this recognition truth will fill us up. And we will realize that we were always a being, that we were never a becoming. And I understand we all we all go through it the same way. We think we are on a journey, we think we are on a path, and that we all that we will find ourselves, as the saying goes. But finding yourself actually means to realize that the one trying to find was the one who was trying to be found. Always. But you are looking from the self. You are the one who is looking. And so that can be described as a journey. But the thing itself is not a journey. It was always there. But this can this recognition can only be had in being. The doing is important, right? Not all doing is bad, certainly not. Studying philosophy is a beautiful thing. Meditating is a beautiful thing. Engaging in certain religious practices can be a beautiful thing. But to what end? This is the question. What is our intention in doing those things? If we have the right intention of I'm trying to empty myself of myself, I'm going to let go of all beliefs because I don't know which ones are false, which ones are true. I'm going to let go of all of them. And I'm going to study philosophy, for example, this is only one of the many paths, right? And I will pick up as I go new beliefs or my old beliefs that I now can discern were right and were always good. And so I can pick them back up. Everything's allowed. Everything can come back. We are only emptying ourselves in order to be filled up by truth rather than by all this falsity that we have inherited, picked up ourselves, uh, dreamed of. Maybe we we're a little bit delusional, also. We think there are certain things there that are not really there. We believe in that. And so we're just going to let go of everything. And one way to then be filled up by truth, you can study philosophy. Of course, there are many ways to study philosophy as well. There are ways that are just about the practice, about the doing itself. And there are some that say, not too much reading, not too much of this. This is a friend talking to a friend. And I want you to recognize this and I want you to consider this and live with it and see if it shows up in your experience. If it does, great. If it doesn't, throw it right away. This is philosophy. Philosophy literally translates as the love of wisdom. Who doesn't love wisdom? Who loves the opposite of wisdom?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 25:20

And so, but that's what we're doing. When we are just doing for the sake of doing, that that is not a wise way to act. We're caught up in something. And as long as we do, we are going to continue to be caught up in that. So we must cease a little bit. At least either completely for some time or largely cease from doing many things and replace things with other things. And then this very, very seemingly simple fact that being is before every single doing will become clear. And it will become clear also that the being does not need the doing. But the doing needs the being. And am I the doing or am I the being? I'm the being. Uh-huh. So all my activities, they need me. I don't need them. Again, this does not mean that doing and activities are wrong. They are not wrong. It's all about the intention. We talk about this a lot. Every single action that you can possibly ever think of in the world. If it's done out of a good intention, if it's possible to do it out of a good intention, then it will be a good act. If it is done out of the wrong intention, the same exact thing will be the wrong act. A great example to that always, simple example, is charity. There are so many people doing charity with the right intention, and so they are doing the best thing. And there are so many people doing charity with the wrong intention, so they are doing the worst thing. Same action. Same exact action. But once this fact is truly recognized that being is before everything, and everything rests on it, and everything comes from it, and everything depends on it, and without that, nothing else can exist, then all are doing also will have the right intention because we have the right knowledge about what is what, what's going on, who needs whom, and why do anything. Otherwise, why would I do to become? I already am. Without being, without already I am, this being, this doing is not possible. So to do in order to be does not make any sense anymore. And so we will never chase a human being for whatever reason to become, to become whole, to become happy, to become at peace, because we recognize the one who would be chasing with that intention or any other intention is already the same. It will never change. That one cannot change. The I am, the being, that complete existence cannot become better or worse. So why would I chase anyone or anything for any reason that has anything to do with becoming, with making myself something, with becoming worthier, with becoming more valuable, with becoming, becoming, becoming, becoming? Why? And so all our activities just fall into place. Everything is considered in this way, and then we say, Is this the right doing?

SPEAKER_05 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Nothing wrong with that. I have ten things. There are other people who have zero of this. I will give them one or two of mine. Why not? Excellent. But um is this doing wrong? Ah, I'm I'm doing that to get that. And when I get that, I will finally be dot dot dot. This is the wrongdoing. So I believe this is the realization that you are having, and if you just let this expand again, this is not a doing, this is just an allowing, a recognition. If you allow this to expand, if you give it uh some time, if you cease from certain things that are distractions to this, that are in fact against this recognition, not conducive to it, then it is inevitable for this recognition, this vision to fully take place and to become extremely obvious to you. And uh after all, this is the recognition that all studying and praying and activity was supposed to lead us to. And so if that is now happening, all that needs to be done is to allow it to know not go against this, to give oneself to this. This is what everyone's talking about in every religion. I gave myself to God, I gave myself to truth. I will no longer listen to the devil. These are all phrases for what we are talking about here in different cultures and different uh traditions. It is all one. This process can take many shapes, many forms, seemingly so. I'm I'm not saying I know of every shape and every form, certainly not. But it is one thing that is being done, that is being seen. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

And um when you were saying all doing depends on being. I've heard you say that before. And my first reaction to that was it just felt like an idea, so I understood it logically, but it didn't seem perspective shifting, but I think this is where I need to put my attention because the compulsion to do comes from a feeling that without doing feel like you don't have an effect on the world. And so the identities can't survive. And it's this desire for existence which underlies the compulsion to do.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

That's a beautiful way of saying it. There's a desire for existence that underlies all doing. And isn't that the funniest thing we could possibly say, now recognizing the truth? That um one cannot have a desire for being, because there can be no desire without being. And if we already are, if we already exist, what are we desiring and what are we looking to do in order to fulfill that desire? There's nothing we can do, there's nothing that needs to be done, there's nothing that can be done. This is a beautiful thing. Everything you are looking for is already given to you. You were born with it. And in fact, what you are existed even before you were born. Because you were when you were born, you were not invented. That that's already all set up, right? And I'm speaking scientifically here. It's just a continuing process. Nothing started with you, nothing is going to end with you. And uh again, to come into being, that is birth. And we already are, so what are we trying to become? Again, and then we speak logistically, right? Logistically, of course, we can become things. But what can we become? Can we become being? Can we become the self? No. It is the the one who is already, the one who is already I am that is trying to become something. And so you can become an architect, you can become a a mother, a father, you can become a friend, you can become uh someone who makes X amount of money, you can become uh a citizen of some country, but all of this are all these are activities, doings that come after being. And the most precious thing is being not any of these other things. What would you rather have? Your citizenship or your being? Uh a billion dollars that you made, or your being that you made it with. Would you rather be a father or the being that joined fatherhood? It is not even a choice. It is not possible to be a father without being, it is not possible to be an architect without already being, right? This is such a subtle thing. But if we make this thing obvious, it is the end of all seeking. It is the end of all becoming. But I'm not saying it is the end of all activity. No, like I said, the activity can go on. Nothing is being sacrificed, nothing is being killed. There are no enemies, there is no problem. You can be and do the same things that you've been doing before if it still makes sense to you. If it doesn't, then you'll just naturally let it go. There's no fight there, there's no battle there, there's no sacrifice there, there's no loss there, certainly. Maybe your life won't change at all in terms of you what you do, but why you do them will definitely change for sure. Many of them. And uh this is the one recognition we can have to gain freedom by realizing we always had freedom. By achieving peace, by realizing that we always have peace. By finally becoming the one we wanted to become by realizing we were already that. This is the recognition that needs to be had. And uh once again, just keep with it. Uh not in a doing, not in a becoming, not in a process sort of way, but just in the sense of allowing it. I will not go out of my way and actively distract myself from this one recognition because uh the ego likes that, the ego wants to do, the ego cannot be. You are the being, and the ego is not you, so it is not the being, it is the doing because you are not the doing. Doing is something external to us, right? We do, and then when we don't do, we feel a certain way. When we do, we feel a certain way, but can we ever feel what it is like to not be? Because we are always being, we can never know what it is like to not be. What we do know what it is like to do or to not to do. So clearly we are not our doing, but can we say the same about being? Yet the only state that we are uncomfortable with is the state of being rather than the state of doing. Why is that? Because we've become identified with what we are not. We have become identified with that one who cannot stop doing, who cannot stop becoming, who cannot stop having problems, who cannot stop having projects. And that's okay. Nothing is ruined, nothing is lost. It can happen at any time still. It is always open, always accessible. It is our birthright, as we always say. So thank you for bringing that here. Thank you. Uh was there anything else you wanted to share or ask? Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Well, like I said, I'm very glad that you brought that here. Uh I'm gonna move you to the audience, but uh I want to say, you know, great gratitude to this because if this is not starting to be seen, starting to be recognized, there's nothing to talk about. Right? Because to to go to someone and to say these things without someone who is still very much caught up in doing and identifies with doing and the thoughts and ideas and their activities, to that one, this is not something that can be said. To that one, this is not something that can be recognized just yet. That's all. I'll tell it, I say it openly and and clearly every time. This is all that we are doing here, this recognition. There's nothing else. There's nothing else to ever do in life in terms of finding yourself and and your highest goals, peace, happiness, uh all this. It's just this, there's nothing other than this. This is why we say uh truth is simple. Truth is simple because it's for everyone. And truth already is everyone. And so, how could truth be something that we don't understand, that we have to pay for, that we have to become worthy of somehow? It doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

And so uh that being said, I will invite our next speaker here.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

I just wanted to speak on the previous topic a little bit, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Um, and from for those who don't, I'm from Australia. Uh down on that. Um yeah, uh I actually am on the like personally for me, I I've I've had this reality of living with um, I'm telling a whole stage called um multiple personality disorder, um, which is not a big deal, guys. Everyone has their own thing. Um, but I um for the past three years I've been forced to live a reality where um I've had to um rely on the government for financial aid, and um I was simply being and I had to make peace within myself. And it quite comes to mind in the minst in the midst of winter, I finally learned the lay within me an invincible summer. And that's what I learned um during that time, um, over the three, four years where I've had to be and been forced to do that because of my um disability. Um and yeah, so I think it's totally okay because I I found there's so much value in friendship, kinship, there's so much value in just um cultivating who you are as a person. You don't you don't need to be contributing to the world to be of value. And I really wanted to say that um before I speak on the topic at hand. Um should we pity um sorry guys? Uh should should we pity um people who are ignorant?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Oh yeah, so the question of the Fortnite this week and um next week, yeah, is do you still pity the ignorant?

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Do you still pity the ignorant and I think I have a unique perspective based on my lived experience. Um and I don't know um if it's unique, but I mean it's my perspective, I suppose. Um I know that my mom lived has lived in fear for a long time, and I can't imagine having a fear-based thought system, so I don't think we should pity pity her. I think we should show compassion to the ignorant. Um you know, um, and I think I mean there is one thing that I wanted to bring up. Sorry, my brain kind of goes from topic to topic. It's just the way it works. Um, but I did want to talk about um something that is of usefulness to the topic, I guess. Um, okay, I can't quite ask the thoughts right now. Uh sorry guys, I'm getting a bit nervous talking on stage. Um that's why I've been avoiding it for so long. Uh I think it's going back to this idea of living with fear-based having a fear-based thought system, like and and living on survival mode. Um, I think it is a privilege to be able to heal. It is a privilege to be able to go from a state of um unawareness to awareness because some people like they have a job and they have to work that job and they don't get any time to reflect because they've never been taught that they can exit that state of um unawareness to awareness, and they've never had that opportunity. Um, no one's no one's shown them a better way. And sometimes it takes kindness and love and compassion to show to show those individuals, um, to show those individuals that there is a better way. Virtue is so hard when you're poor, that shows so hard when you don't have a lot. But I I've learned that I've learned that it is when you're when when you're tested, when there's trial and tribulation, that if you still remain virtuous, even the world, even though the world isn't virtuous, that's when that's when it's most important to stick to your values and your virtues. And that's what I've been doing, which is really hard because not everyone wants to. Not everyone is obla obligated to be as virtuous as you choose to be. It doesn't mean you're better than anyone or anyone's better than you. Anyway, that's those my thoughts. Hopefully you can make something of all of that.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah, absolutely. Uh we we talk about it here a lot, um, not a lot, but we have talked about that being angry with the ignorant is actually our first reaction, right? If if there would be such a thing as stages to um wisdom when it comes to ignorance, it is that the people who have the least understanding of ignorance become angry at ignorance. You know, how can they not know this? They're supposed to know this, they're supposed to do this, and we actually believe that ignorance doesn't exist. We say they know exactly what they're doing, but they choose to do the wrong thing anyway. And I always have to point out to people that is their ignorance. Yes, they might know that they are cutting in line in front of you. Yes, they might know that they're doing that. Of course, they know that they're not sleepwalking, but their ignorance is thinking that they somehow have the right to do it, or they've been disadvantaged in some other way. Someone cut in line before them on some other day, or even on the same line. And so now they get to do it. They say, This is fair, this is just. Something has been taken away from me, I'll take it from someone else, and thereby restore order, restore balance. All we see is the person cutting in line. We do not see this thinking that is going on behind it. And is that thinking right? No. But it does give them a reason to do it. There's a wrong reason. It's ignorant, but that's why they're doing it. That's how they justify it, even though it is not justifiable. That is how they justify it. And so that is their ignorance. So when people say, but clearly they're aware that they are cutting in line right now. They've been told, I've told them. They they say, I don't care, I'm gonna do it anyway. So, how can you say that these people are ignorant? This is how. And when we realize that, we come to the next stage, which does not exist. There's no such thing as stages, but just for communication purposes, if we want to um separate it that way, we can say that stage two is realizing this and thereby letting go of the anger, because we say, we see, okay, in their mind this makes sense. These poor people, you know, they don't know right from wrong. They think right is wrong and wrong is right. And so, of course, they are going to act this way. If someone thinks that the wrong thing is the right thing, of course they are going to do the wrong thing. Doesn't that make perfect sense? And so we say, ah, these poor people, they've confused right with wrong. What a terrible life that is, to be in confusion of what is right and wrong, to have illusions, to have delusions, to be wrong and to think that one is right. What a terrible, miserable life. That's pity. And so this is why the question of the Fortnite is do you still pity the ignorant? Because this is only one so-called stage. This is not how to deal with ignorance. Neither anger nor pity is the proper way, the way that is aligned with what ignorance truly is, with that on with the understanding of it. So if we are still pitying them, we are doing much better than anger. We're doing much better than what we used to do because anger consumes. Anger makes us pushes us into actions that we ourselves are guaranteed to regret every single time. And so anyone who's being ignorant thereby can push us into actions that we are guaranteed to regret. What an amazing thing. What an amazing power people have over us if we give it to them. And so to have let go of anger and to be no longer be offended and to no longer be pushed into actions that one oneself does not want to be engaged in. Wow. What a liberation, what an amazing thing. But that too is not the end, because pity is a judgment. To pity someone is to say, you are in a bad way. All those ignorant people who don't know true from false, they're in a bad way, aren't they? And so I judge them as being in a bad way. And of course, since I am able to see that they are in a bad way, that they are doing something wrong, I must know better. Otherwise, I could not see this, right? And so look at the things we're saying now. We're saying, I judge you good, you bad, you good, you bad, and I myself, I'm better, of course, because I can see this, I know this, you don't, you're an ignorant, miserable person. And so now we have switched. Of course, anger also involved judgment. So what has happened is we've let go of anger, we've let go of this direct control that other people have over us by offending us. But we are still judging. Nothing has changed about that. We are still judging. And everything we do to others, we do to ourselves. So when if we are still in the judging mindset, then we are also constantly judging our own actions. We're saying, ah, now I did a good thing. Excellent. Pride. Or I slipped up. Again, I slipped up. I'm so bad at this. I'm so stupid. I'm just like them. Uh when will I ever stop this? Uh I I might as well give up. I mean, this just keeps happening and happening and happening. I keep falling into the vices. And um I am still not as virtuous as I want to be, as I know I should be. This is a judging mindset. This is a judging mindset. The one who truly understands ignorance, what it is and what it is not, knows that ignorance even is not something that can touch the self. This I am, this existence. The one that judges ignorance from non-ignorance, from true from false, the one who can see this, the one who can observe this, that is the true self. We all make mistakes, the mistakes are never going to stop. Can we acknowledge this or are we too afraid of this? The mistakes are never going to stop. Never. Socrates made mistakes. Jesus made mistakes. The Buddha made mistakes. The mistakes are not going to stop. And so if we keep judging, if we keep this judgmental mindset, when are we ever going to be at peace with ourselves? When are we ever going to be at peace? Period? When are we ever not going to judge others and ourselves? When either the judging has to stop or the making of mistakes has to stop, so that we can always judge ourselves good. But who here can guarantee that they will not make a mistake today? Today. Even if we could stop all our mistakes, we can never stop the mistakes of other people. There's certain people we hate, there's certain people we love. Our loved ones are going to keep making mistakes. And then we're going to put ourselves in this conflicted situation, paradoxical situation, time and time again, where we say we love this person, but we keep judging them as incompetent. We keep judging them as stupid because they did an incompetent thing, because they did a stupid thing. We are going to keep judging them. And when they do a right thing, we're going to say, Good job. I deem you good. I deem you competent. And then next time they approach a similar situation, we're going to have expectations on them because the judging minds remembers, says last time they did this, they did a good job. Now I expect them to do the same. Or even to improve a little bit because I judge that they are still not quite there where they should be. And so this person is an impossible situation now in our eyes. Even if they perform just as well, they're going to disappoint us. And supposedly we love this person. Love does not judge. Love does not ask for proof. Love does not have expectations. Love does not test other people. And love certainly does not become disappointed with itself or anyone else. This is all actions of hatred. Hatred judges. Hatred discriminates. Hatred ranks people and things in the world. Hatred demands proof. Hatred demands sacrifice. And so with this judging mindset, every loving thing we do is actually hatred. And we do not know what love is because we are still judging, and love does not judge. We are incompatible with love. We are only compatible with hatred. This needs to be seen. This is the question. This is why it is the question. Do you still pity the ignorant? Or do you understand that good people make mistakes? And that the mistakes are never going to stop, and that the judgmental mindset is a hateful mindset, and that the loving mindset is one that has let go of these false beliefs, that has stopped ranking, has stopped projecting meaning and expectations and tests on the world, including itself, because everything we do to others, we do to ourselves. Everything we do to ourselves, we do to others. And so when we say, oh, I'm such a loving uh person, I'm a mother, I'm a sister, I'm a friend, um I love everyone, but you know, I keep disappointing myself. And you know what? I hate myself. I hate myself. If you hate yourself, you hate other people. If you are disappointed in yourself, if you can get disappointed in yourself, you very much can and do get disappointed with other people. You may hide it, you may never tell them, you may never show them, and you may even suppress the realization of this in yourself. You may distract yourself from this with all kinds of things, either the company of other people or substances or activities. There are many ways to distract oneself. But it is impossible for someone who has self-hatred to not hate others. It is impossible for someone who is still battling themselves to not be battling others, and it is impossible for someone who is trying to live up to their own expectations that they have not also set up and are continually setting up expectations for others. And every time those expectations are met, it is a thrill to us. It is pride, which in itself is destruction. And if they don't meet these expectations, or if we don't, then we are disappointed. We are once again fallen. We have once again slipped up, we have once again ruined something, we have once again wasted something, the day. This day is gone. I'll try again tomorrow, but you know, I'm kind of worthless. I'm probably gonna do that again anyway. So what's the point? This will be our lives forever if we do not let go of judgment. And this is why to let go of judgment. And everyone who has the why also has the how. The how is just a simple realization. Anything that the self realizes that it becomes aware of, it will immediately apply reason to. Is it reasonable to act like this? Is judgment reasonable? Is hatred reasonable? Is anger reasonable? Is pity reasonable? It is not now try to see that something is unreasonable and still hold on, try to hold on to it. It's impossible. It naturally falls off. And so this is why philosophy. This is why to be suggested these things, to apply them to our experience, and to see if they if they are not right about what they're saying. And if they are right, then that is being seen. And if it is being seen, it cannot be unseen, and if it cannot be unseen, it cannot be continued to be upheld by the one and true upholder of anything which is the true self. That one will no longer have any interest in engaging in that, or it will s suddenly have an interest in engaging in the exact opposite of behavior of what it now knows is wrong. So this is something that think about. This is what I wanted to suggest with this question, and and thank you for for answering the question. And I think you have suggested some very important steps there of um that that uh pity ultimately is the wrong solution, that it is not a solution at all, and that we always need to look what love is suggesting. What is love saying? What would love do? If we keep that in mind, I mean, we can hardly go wrong, right? Because love is always in conflict, or rather, other things are in conflict with love, love, seasonal conflict, but um it does not at all act in the way that hatred acts or judgment. And so if we ask ourselves, what is the loving thing to do here, truly, then we will know. So I appreciate that um answer, and I appreciate even more that you are thinking about these things, that you have, as we were talking about before, emptied yourself of yourself at least enough to let these things come in. And I think you are seeing the benefit of doing exactly that. Uh, every little thing you let go of and replace with truth, it has uh infinite and as we say, life-changing effects immediately in your experience, it shows up. And so I appreciate that. Thank you for bringing that here. And thank you also, by the way, for um not listening to fear and not listening to all these uh ego, essentially, right? Wrong, false beliefs, identities that tell you so many things, give you so many reasons to not do something. But you said, I'm not gonna listen to you. In fact, now that you said it, I'm gonna go do the exact opposite. You told me not to come here and speak. I'm gonna come here and speak and see what happens. And what has happened? Hasn't it happened that vision has expanded? Hasn't it happened that not only fear about this, but fear generally as a potential force in your life has ever so slightly at the very least decreased? And that it can never come back, actually. This is what's happening here. This is what you are seeing, I think. And um that's exactly how we need to operate against fear. Fear is not going to go away on its own. And again, even fear is something that we can be thankful for. Because without fear, we do not know what are the false beliefs, what are the mental constructs that are keeping me from the true recognition of what is ignorance, what is love, what is hate, and what is love, and what is understanding, what is awareness, what is unawareness. Fear is showing me that in many situations for many people. I'm not saying only fear, but it's one of those things. And by dealing with it, by not listening to it, by saying, by doing the opposite, you are seeing something very, very important. And um again, I appreciate you living in this way. It is an important thing to add to the world by by becoming more aware of yourself, by adding awareness to your life. You are adding awareness to the world indirectly. And this is not a reason to do it for yourself. This is just a side effect of what happens when we become more aware, the world becomes more aware. So thank you for coming here. Thank you for being a part of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Thank you. Um I think sorry, I can I respond. Are you still covering?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

No, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

Um I think before I was rushing my words because um this is something I just realized um when we were talking earlier. Um because sometimes I feel like my words don't have value. And I think that's why for a long time I thought I had to speak at such a rapid pace. And I think I'd like to change that. I think you've inspired me to do that. Um so I kind of want to repeat one thing that Henry said, and it's something that I'd like to meditate on, and maybe maybe you can comment on this particular quote. And it's what I said earlier, and it's in the midst of winter, I finally learned there lay within me an invincible summer. And I don't know why I keep thinking about that, but I think amidst all this suffering, because there's a lot of suffering when you don't fully have control over your mind. There's also a lot of peace because I can do all things through Christ, and that's something that I believe, and that peace comes from within. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Peace is yours already. You cannot lose peace and you cannot gain peace. Peace is yours, you're sitting on peace. Everything you do is out of peace because every time you see, oh, this is a disturbance to me, this thing is going on in my life, and this is disturbing me, that is direct evidence of peace. Because if you did not have peace, you could not be disturbed. The disturbance would be all you know, and you would not differentiate it. You would not say, This is a disturbance, this is not, because what are you comparing it to? If you can be disturbed, that means that you are at peace. However, even when you are think you are disturbed, behind the disturbance, there's still peace. I always say, you know, this is peace. It's always there. And then the disturbance comes in, and we think peace has gone away. It has not gone away. It's still there. And whatever this does, it does not matter. This does the peace does not move. The disturbance comes in, it goes, it comes in, it brings 10 more friends, it does all kinds of things. But always, always, always there's peace. And we forget that due to the disturbance. And that's a very normal thing. Of course, we, when something is obstructed from our view, of course, we can think that it might not be there anymore. But with peace, we have to learn that no matter what has ever happened to us or could ever happen, peace is always there. And if we don't forget this fact, then in every situation, even if we cannot see peace right now, we will have the knowledge that peace is nevertheless there. And the simple remembrance, the recognition of that, is the end of suffering in many ways, because even though that which we say causes our suffering is still going on, we are realizing that that cannot touch peace. Nothing can touch peace. But nothing happens to the sun itself just because someone still stands in front of it. Impossible. So peace is everlasting, peace is indestructible. In fact, peace is untouchable. And peace is your birthright. So it was not given to you, it cannot be taken away. Try to see that. Saying that doesn't mean anything. Apply it to your experience. Let the disturbance come. Let the so-called problem and the suffering let it all come. Ten times more than it ever did before. Let it all come and see now that you know this, if peace is not still there, nevertheless, underneath it all. Try that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:17

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

Absolutely. And thank you once again for being here, for not listening to fear. Now you see that how uh fear is an illusion, I think. And um, it's an amazing realization. And uh I'm gonna put you back to the audience, but I still want to say that um this is what this is how fear operates. It is all image, it is surface level. And once we say, no, I'm gonna go through that anyway, we see behind it there was nothing. There was never anything. It was a great illusion. We're not silly for having fallen for it. It's very, very realistic. It's often realer than reality, it seems. But it is in fact not. Okay, and I will invite our next speaker.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:07

Well, uh listening to the conversations, uh it basically touches something that uh I was thinking about lately. It's about ambition. How certain activities are quite um I would say provocative for the ambition and by and by not judging myself, uh not trying to judge, but observing I found myself uh acting or being guided by by ambition, by wanting more and essentially doing unreasonable things to accomplish some some promise that it holds. Essentially, uh I observed ambition some days ago, and and of course the the things that result from from the acts based on that were not something that I think were appropriate, and also were certain in certain words uh damaging. So uh at first glance I feel I felt bad for doing that, and I felt guilty for for doing that, for giving into that thing, and not looking at it with a reasonable point of view, even before I started uh doing this activity that I mentioned, I placed a reasonable intention to do it calmly and doing it uh with with awareness. But months went through and the activity this is what I am trying to say that certain activities contain uh speculation on them or require that, uh such as, for example, gambling, and my intention was just to to obtain uh a certain income from that, and uh it is not precisely gambling, but it requires analysis, it requires different things, and the financial markets, and it starts to shift a lot the perspective to a point where other things in your life also start to change. And I wasn't aware at which point this started to occur until recently it was um it was very noticeable, and I I did something that really changed my my view on this. I don't I don't have interest in going back to to do those things and still uh sometimes if if you are sure of what you're doing, if you're aware of what you're doing, of your intention, uh maybe sometimes we don't have the full information of doing that. And uh I am trying to find uh an answer about if certain things are simply not not possible to be done, and certain things are not needed to be done. Uh I hope I made sense out of out of my commentary.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

So is your uh is your question that you are since you are trying to live a more aware life that you are seeing that some things just cannot be done with awareness, that some things require imagination, speculation, all those kind of things that you don't want to engage in anymore. Is that the question?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:46

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

But I want you to notice um everything can be done in awareness, right? This doesn't mean that you should do it. You know, you can have other reasons for not wanting to do it. You can say, you know, this is some an activity that uh consumes too much of my time. You could say it uh kind of requires me to be dishonest, at least to a certain degree, with people, whatever. There might be such reasons, and you say I just I don't want to do that anymore. It's not because it would damage me, it's not because it would hurt me, it's not because it would make me uh a less good uh human being. It's just that I have no interest in it. If you have any fear of it, you have not applied awareness to it. Because the true self with this awareness does not need to be afraid of anything since it is untouchable. Right? Nothing I can do or say or think about you even can harm you, let alone it cannot even touch you. You are exactly what you are, no matter what you do, no matter what other people do. And so there's nothing that needs to be that you need to be afraid of. There is no enemy, there is no harm, there is no problem. Right. Uh again, this does not mean, oh, just just carry on, just do whatever you were doing that you don't like to do anymore. No, but don't do it because you're afraid of it. Don't do it because you think, oh, this will uh make me less aware, this will harm me, this will push me into something, misery, right? You can't do that. But logistically, again, if you say I don't have time, I don't want to spend my um time on earth, I don't want to spend my resources on this, I don't want to spend my attention on this, I'd rather be doing other things. Great, excellent. But not out of an aversion, not out of a fear, not out of a oh, this, I don't want to go anywhere close to this, who knows what it will do to me. Not like that. So I just want you to see that whatever you are doing that you think uh you cannot do with awareness, just apply awareness to it. Do it with a with full attention. Don't get distracted in it, don't let imagination take over. Perceive everything that's happening, essentially, is what I'm saying. Uh, whatever your activity is, let's say, as your example, let's say it is gambling, um, like regular gambling. And you have a gambling addiction, even, let's say, right? Because this is how we resolve all those kinds of things too, our so-called addictions. They're nothing more than habits. And once a habit is seen, truly what it is, what it does, what it requires, we see that the price is too high. And we see that there's actually no excitement in it whatsoever. All of that was a thrill, it was an imagination. Certain things happen and we put imagination on top of it to make it really exciting. But now that we see what is what, now that we see that we are adding on to that, that it's just imagination, it's just an illusion, and we don't do that anymore, we go do the exact same thing and we realize, wow, I was just adding all of that to that. There is no excitement in this, actually, not worth the price anyway. And I don't need excitement to be a full human being, so what am I here for? We say. Right? And so I would say, I would say, uh, especially if fear tells you that you should not engage in this behavior anymore, I would say go do it anyway with awareness. And if you don't have to do it, don't do it. I'm just saying this is if this is something that needs to occur in your life, at least to some certain degree, don't be afraid of it. Apply awareness to it. See, okay, I'm opening up the app, the gambling app, whatever. And okay, this I'm pushing the buttons, I'm doing this, but all the while I'm remaining aware of my situation, where I am, like where is my body, right? What am I doing? What time of the day is it, you know? And my awareness that I'm looking through my eyes, but I am not that what I'm perceiving. I am not that what I am observing. I am the one who's observing. And see, go through the entire process with full awareness. Now this is happening. Now this is appearing in my vision. Now I'm hearing this. Now this makes me think of this. But ah, I know, I know I don't need to actually engage with the thought. The thought can come up, but I don't need to engage with, okay, so knowing that the thought seems to be going away. All right, now here's another one coming. Observe, observe all of this. Observe all of this. And then you can say, okay, an hour has passed. I'm still on the gambler. I don't need to judge myself. This is not a failure. This is the process. All of this needs to be seen. There is no success or failure in this at all. This is the old way of thinking. This is judgment to say this good, this bad, success, failure. These are all judgments. No more judgment. No more judgment, only observation. Reality does not judge. Reality doesn't say, okay, storm is coming now, that's a bad thing. And storm is clearing now, that's a good thing. Reality doesn't work like that. Reality is just doing what it's doing, it's just is. And the observer also just is. No judgment. Although, again, the judgment is not enemy at all. If the enemy comes in, you just observe coming in, and you c you observe the judgment coming in. Ah, look, I'm judging this right now. Oh, that's so terrible. I I want to get away from judgment, and I'm still judging. No, that too is judgment, but that one's not being seen. That one that one was able to trick us. Judgment about judgment. Do you see that? Judgment about judgment is also judgment. So we are still judging. Ah, but I wanted to stop judging, and I'm still doing a terrible, this is a terrible mistake. Once again, I'm doing that too is a judgment. Apply awareness to that too, and say, ah I was judging again. So silly, whatever. It's not necessary. Let it go. And then oh, excitement is coming. This is exciting me again, and I don't want to be excited from by this anymore because I want to get away from this. So this excitement means that I'm just getting more and more addicted to it. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. That also is just the thought. The thought of that can be observed, the excitement can be observed, the frustration can be observed, the judgment can be observed, the emotions can be observed. And then whenever you are done, naturally, not because you force yourself, but you say, okay, this is this is how much I usually gamble. So, okay, I'm done now. Gonna put the phone away. Okay. Still aware. Now what has happened? Was I harmed by this? No, I'm still here. I'm awareness. I'm aware. Now, okay, I haven't been harmed, but do I want to engage in this again? No.

unknown 1:21:21

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Because whenever I do engage, you know, a lot of thoughts come up, judgments, emotions, and all of them come up can come up. They can't harm me, but why do something that is conducive to a lot of speculation, to a lot of imagination, to a lot of judgment? Why? I have no interest in it. And then you might say that, and then a week later, two weeks later, eight months later, you might say, Oh, I kind of want to gamble again. Observe, once again, awareness. Don't say, Oh, you've been so good for eight months. You've never gone that long by far. And now you want to gamble again. We're falling back, we're slipping up. This is terrible. This is gonna end. And does that do you remember last time you got into gambling really uh intensively? It was terrible. This is all thought. This is all judgment, this is all identification with that thought. Thinking that this thought is me. It is not. It's yet another thought that I'm not in control of. It just came in and I'm observing it. And I don't need to communicate with it. I don't need to say, Oh, yeah, you're so right. That was so terrible. But now it's happening again again. What am I supposed to do? And then fear comes in, and you say, Come on, fear. Yeah, we were just talking about how terrible this is. What do you think about this? Oh, yeah, this is this is the worst thing that can ever happen to us, and it's happening now, wasn't it? And you're all identifying, you're having a conversation with fear, with thoughts, with emotions. None of it is necessary. So observe that too. Ah, look. This coming up again is not a problem, it's just an activity. Fear is coming in. That's just an emotion and observing it. These thoughts. All that is observed. So do I still have the desire? Okay, yeah, I still that too is observed. The desire as well is observed. I'm not the desire. So let me go on this thing again. And apply awareness, though. Very important, right? Of course, observe everything. Don't go unconscious, don't go unaware. Don't get lost in it. But observe, observe, observe. And then again you say, Wow, pfft. This was even less interesting to me now, and I was only in it 20 minutes this time. Uh, it was even less interesting than the last time, eight months ago. So, wow. Well, that was good to see that. I I guess I needed to see it. This is another thing that's being observed. I guess I needed to see it. I guess it wasn't quite obvious enough. Now that was not a failure. It's again just the process. Is life pointing out to you that this wasn't obvious enough to you? So let's make it more obvious, is what life's just saying. And you're saying, thank you. Thank you. U clearly it wasn't obvious enough to me. Now I feel like it's obvious, but I'm just gonna wait and see. You know, maybe I'll desire it again. But if I do, I'm just gonna apply awareness to it again. I know it's not a problem. And so it's just about a loss of interest. It is not about staying away from it and having an aversion to it or being afraid of it. It's not about that because that is still the judging mind. That is still identifying with something that you are not, with identifying with something that someone that gambling can harm. Gambling cannot harm you. It's just it's also not a good activity, of course, but we naturally don't have any interest in those activities. It is our mental constructs, our our beliefs, and of course, to a large part, habit too, at some point, that keeps making us come back to it, but it is not in itself a harmful thing. Because someone who doesn't have a gambling addiction can gamble all they want, or someone who doesn't have an alcohol addiction, they can still drink. Why are they not slipping up after one drink and getting into full-blown alcoholism? Because they were never there before. And so it's not really the thing itself. Of course, I realize we're talking about substances, these are physical things and and habits are also physical things. That's a different, that's logistical, as we always talk about. But I'm saying in the non-logistical, the self, the true self, is not harmed by this. Of course, the body is harmed by this. Your finances are harmed by that, certainly. Your health is harmed by that. And so that's why reason will tell you this is not for us. We don't have any interest in this. Why are we harming our body? Why are we harming our time, our resources? Why? Why? Give me one good reason, reason will say, right? What's the reason of this? Show me the logic. And the gambling, the substances, the distractions, the thrills will not be able to give a reason. They will not be able to make sense. And so, once again, we will lose interest. Not afraid, not running away. Lose interest. Does that make some sense?

SPEAKER_06 1:26:29

Yes, thank you so much. Um overall, the uh the the vision is very clear. It's very simple, and uh I don't want to go like with the personal things about uh these logistical things, uh but still maybe someone might be interested in doing this, and uh what I am talking about is uh trading and doing market speculation, uh knowing where the market, the stock market will go. So you sort of speculate where it will go, you you add money, you you analyze of course where it's going, you do this uh strategy, and of course you lose or win some money. The the thing is that there is a lot of emotions involved at certain points, and even when you are looking at it with awareness, it will pop up uh the all of the all of those things, and you know I'm I think I'm starting to lose interest in that because uh it's not just about obtaining an income and it's uh to obtain a trail, and this sort of obtaining has Well detrimental for the body and of course for the financial things as you have said. But still I think I will go with it and uh see more about it, understand it more. And and let it let it be.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:24

See the thrill thrill because the more you see it, the more you are not only seeing this thrill, but the nature of all thrills. Right? And the more you see it, you will see that thrills, while they cannot harm you, you just have no interest in them because you don't need it. Reality is full and beautiful and exciting, even on its own. I don't need to add anything, I don't need to enhance. Right? And I don't need to chase anything. This is the most important thing. In reality, things just come. It's always the present moment, it's always here. It is never coming or in the past, and we say, Oh, I wish it would happen again. This is thrill seeking. Because in reality, in the present moment, there's nothing to be sought. It is already here. That is why it is present. And so when we say, Oh, I'm gonna chase something, chase a thrill in the future, or chase a thrill in the past, I want to make it happen again. This is thrill seeking. And so experience that too when you're in the present moment and you're not trading yet. And you say, Oh, when I trade that this could happen, or that could happen, wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't that be a lot of money? Expectation is coming in. Observe that. And then say, okay, let's see this whole process, right? Here's the anticipation, here's the trying, here's the failing, here's the succeeding, here's the thrill. I attained the thrill. How long does the thrill last before I desire it again? How long does it last? And is that worth all of this? This is exactly what I'm saying. This is what needs to be observed. And if you really truly do observe that, and you say, no, this is worth my time, well, then there's nothing wrong. But you say, no, this is not worth my time, it comes at a great cost. And what am I even getting for it? Just a cheap throw that lasts for just a little bit. And so I'm not interested. It can't harm me, it can't make me better. I'm just not interested. Or I am interested. Logistically, it makes sense. Uh, I like doing, I enjoy spending my time like this, not because it's thrilling, just because it's the right thing to do and it's natural to me and it's effortless to me, it's beautiful to me. And so then you do it, you see. So there's nothing we can say that, oh, day trading is wrong. We should all abstain from it. We cannot say that. We can also not say we should all be doing it. It all depends on our personality, what we like to spend time on, what seems effortless to us, what uh is beautiful to us, what makes sense to us, and that can be different for everyone. But you're absolutely right in saying that if it is a thrill to us, then it is wrong. For us, someone else can do that and maybe not get a thrill at all from it and just do it for the thing itself. Beautiful. Great. Um, anything and everything can be a thrill, a thrill. And uh anything and everything can be done without getting a thrill from it somehow, right? It all depends on the situation and what it is and the person and most importantly the intention. So thank you very much for pointing that out out to us. And and thank you once again. This is a living, you are a living example of seeing a thrill. And things are developing, but maybe in the future, if you care to do so, you will let us know how how this went or how it's going. And uh, we might all collectively learn from that as well. So thank you very much. This is very valuable.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:49

And thank you. Uh thank you for for your response. It's uh truly valuable and uh also very accurate because uh this activity sort of brings you expectations about what you can do with the money and how you will be, how uh how the future will be with something that you still don't have. Uh so uh thank you and uh wish you well.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:22

I wish you well too. Thank you so much. Uh very, very valuable. I will move you back to the audience with uh great gratitude. That was really uh excellent and very valuable that you brought that to us. Thank you so much. And I will invite our next speaker right away.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:41

Hi, uh I don't have a uh specific uh topic to discuss, but uh if you have any ideas, I can run with it uh quite easily, I think, at this point especially.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:57

Well maybe you would like to uh maybe you would like to answer the question of the Fortnite, which is do you still pity the ignorant?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:08

Yeah, uh personally I can hardly really uh find something to think uh of that question because uh w where I am in my life, let's say I have probably been at that at that point where I felt a lot of pity and uh uh let's say just disgust uh at the extreme, let's say for ignorance and uh just foolishness all over the place. Everywhere I look, it seems it's popping in my face, all the foolishness and ignorance over the top ignorance, even in some cases. So but at this point I feel like I don't even relate to that question in a sense because what what does it what would it give me bring or bring me in my life to pity people who are who I consider ignorant or in any sense of in any aspect or whatever. So I just think I I I like that, let's put it that that way. I like to observe that the ignorance I see and and experience and endure, let's say, and just observe it and deal with it how I can and move on with my my activities, my priorities, my my goals, my thoughts. My like like like I said, probably my priorities, my what I want in my life. So I don't necessarily have time or mental energy to focus on such things even one one hour a day or five minutes a day or one minute a day. I I don't have that in me, let's say. So I just want to reach my goals, and my goals at this point is like uh have a good grasp of wisdom and just pure pure wisdom that no one can touch, no one can at the limit, no one can really see or or observe it fully because it's it's like elusive, it's for human beings. We can't get there, but we can uh find glimpses of it, like little sparks that we can see extremely clearly, but we can we can't not necessarily relay that to other to others when we discuss uh anything. So but sometimes we can discuss it with someone who has the proper foundation to really understand our words when we talk about things like wisdom and such things, because they they have been there, they have seen it already. So we can we can find uh let's say common ground or whatever on different topics and and and realize for ourselves first that wisdom is really a thing that exists that that can be observed and applied in our lives. And that that's just what what I like. I I'm I love wisdom because it's something that first of all for me many years ago it was an aesthetic thing for me in my as an artist. I I wanted to focus on that primarily because for me it was really an aesthetic thing for my art, but it has become like with ego death and everything that I went through, it has become something really part of me. Like I can't at this point I just can't detach from my love, deep level of wisdom and understanding and knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:57

But uh so you are still attached to something that you are not.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:02

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:03

So you are still attached to things that you are not then?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:08

Like what? Like wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:12

Yeah, but uh I don't know if I understand what you mean, but uh what I mean by-you are attached to wisdom and that it has become a part of you.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:24

Yeah, but that's how I I word it, but uh let's say it has become more than just an aesthetic thing that I want to incorporate in my art or my vision for my own career as an artist or whatever, musician or anything. It has become something that I truly value in my life. I I see it a little bit differently because I have uh I have uh detached from many things that I thought were valuable for me deeply, and now I nothing is value valuable for me, my my body, my life, everything it has been.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:01

You just said wisdom is valuable to you, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:03

Yeah, yeah, because I see it in everything like people talk talk about the Christian God or the Judeo-Christian God and everything, and they see something, but I see something completely different, but I can relate to little tiny aspects of it. And I I I I already did before, but what I want to say is wisdom for me is something that I strive for, as I strive to see it and appreciate it and share it and whatever at this point is I just want to have something to give in my life because my life has no work for me anymore. I I can't I can't just feel good because of what happened to me. So I feel I at least I feel like I can't be at peace. I can't feel good just uh normally every day because I feel horrible every day because of what happened to me. So what what what I'm saying is all all I want is to find find peace, like you say, really find peace and die, die at peace. And even if it's tomorrow, even if it's 40, 45 years from now, I just want to do what I what what I'm here for. Wisdom for me is it's a a way to do that for for me personally, a word that I value and I strive for to go go towards that. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:32

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:32

Well, among among all the things it has no limits. Wisdom is it's the ultimate thing. There's nothing above that. It's it doesn't exist. It's not a can't uh there's no concept for me that is higher than that, or let's say equal to that. Wisdom is is like the ultimate, ultimate. Let's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

Um among the things to covet, among the things to desire, wisdom is certainly the best one. Um I think the more you give yourself to that, the more you will also see that you don't need to covet desire, even wisdom. Because wisdom is already yours, right? Every every every single thing that is understandable, knowable by a human being is understandable and knowable to you too. And so peace is yours already as well. If one person can have peace and ever did have peace, which we have many uh examples of, right, then you can too. And uh this recognition already, in my opinion, is the the fundamental uh part of pe of wisdom, the recognition that peace is for me, wisdom is for me, truth is for me, love is for me, it is not just for someone else, right? And so once we know this, I wonder do we even need to know how to attain peace? Or have we just done it actually? Because if peace is my birthright, if peace is my nature, if peace is effortless to me, if peace is what I am made for or am am with already, then what is my what has my my ambition been for all my life? To what end? Don't I already have the very thing that I was trying to get through other things, career, whatever, relationships, whatever. Because everyone is just trying to become uh so and so in order to become, to be finished, to be completed, uh, and now I can be a peace. Not necessary. In fact, not possible to attain peace through something else other than through itself, which we are already one with, which is our nature. And so that's beautiful. So if we are striving, if we are uh looking for answers from something else, someone else, wisdom is certainly the place to go. And uh as we are seeing all religions have wisdom, all philosophies, right, all ways of thinking, there's some wisdom in it. Otherwise, it could not persist in the world. Because if it connects with someone, there has to be at least something about it. It cannot be completely devoid of wisdom. And so we are seeing that it is not, oh, this religion has wisdom and all else is false. That in itself is ignorance, right? Or some people say, okay, stoicism is excellent, and all these other philosophers are just wrong. This is why I always say um become an eclectic. Meaning take truth wherever it's coming from. Never reject truth because of who's saying it or when it has been said. Some people say, some people don't want to read Plato because they said that was 2,000 years ago. There's no way that holds up, there's no way that's relevant. And so they reject that truth. And other people say, that's an Eastern thought. Um this is not our culture, this is not our religion. So they reject truth there. And then in their own circle, they say, uh, this person has cheated on their wife. What would they know? And we reject truth there. And all ignorant people, certainly, whatever they have to say, we reject that too. And we reject and we reject them, we reject, reject them. We're left with this narrow little perspective, which also has wisdom in it, as does everything else, but we have rejected all others, and so we keep ourselves small, we keep ourselves ignorant by doing that. And so I suggest to everyone do not look who said it. Do not look where it's coming from, what time it's coming from. Look at the idea, the thought, the thing that is being said itself and discern that to be true or false. And that way we cannot go wrong. And so I appreciate your answer. Thank you for answering the question of the fortnight. We have been a little lazy with uh asking the question of the fortnight, with we, I mean me, of course. And so we haven't been discussing directly the question of the fortnight uh so much, but so thank you for giving us another opportunity to do that. And um, I'm glad you are not uh feeling anyway about the ignorant people, which by the way includes ourselves, because we are all ignorant in some way at some time and at some form. There's no one who is never ever ignorant with anything ever, period. It's doesn't right now, as we are sitting here, we are all ignorant about something to some degree in some way, if not multiple things, of course. And so we are those ignorant people too. And if we pity others, we must be pitying ourselves. And in fact, so many of us do. As you also mentioned, you said I could feel sorry and and bad for myself for all those things that happened in my life. Um, or I can finally let go of this pitying of this judging, of this hating, also. And so, what what can be more freeing than to let go of these things? We always say a statue is not made by adding more material, a statue is made by taking material away. And uh regret, shame, anger, pity, envy, jealousy. If we take these things away, wow, we are already a ton lighter. A ton. Right? And it's the most amazing, and again, the full circle, right? Wisdom does this. All our friends will suggest things to us, the philosophers, the the all kinds of people. They are suggesting things that make us lighter if we adopt them. Right. Or can also make us heavier if we adopt them. Some some are knowingly or unknowingly putting burdens on us, trying to. We don't have to we don't have to accept it though. So thank you very much for that answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:39

No problem. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:42

Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for speaking. And um, I'm moving it back to the audience so we can take our invite our next speaker here and might even get to all the speakers today this time. That would be nice.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:57

Hi, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:58

Hi, hello, yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:00

All right. Um it's the first time attending kinship and speaking, so welcome. Um sorry if I'm not that much relevant. Um so I was listening to some kinship uh meetings on Spotify, and there was something you said that made me ponder. Um something along the lines of the things we care about are the things that make us suffer. Um and so I'm thinking uh in life, shall we strive to live life without suffering? Um and because I'm thinking peace is disturbed by suffering, um, and if we want to maximize peace in some way, we should stop caring about uh anything. Uh and I've been having this um uh struggle to understand uh because I find that the things we care about is the reason why, for instance, I I would woke up in the morning, otherwise I just lie in bed, maybe get up when I get hungry. Um and yeah, um troubled because uh in one hand I don't want suffering, but in the other hand uh I want peace, and that I don't want to stay just doing nothing all day. So um do you see the point I'm making?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:51

Yeah, absolutely. And um uh first of all, I want to say thank you for being here, thank you for for joining. This is great, and um I hope you feel very welcome because you are very welcome, and um it's it's always great to bring these ideas here because this is how we get rid of confusion, this is how things become clearer, and no matter what happens, as long as if it's truth and you will know if it is truth or not, we will benefit from that. Truth has never harmed you, as we always say. And so, yeah, um I also made a video about care does not equal truth. You can uh look for that on YouTube. Um care does not equal truth. I mean love. Um, and it's this confusion that we have always that we think that care is love. For example, when people say you you're my girlfriend, you're supposed to care about me, or you're my sister, my brother, my my parents, you're supposed Supposed to care about me. What do we mean when we say that? What do we mean when we say that? Because if someone loves us, then what are we saying? If they love us, they love us. There is no action, there is no proof for that. Either there is love or there isn't. And no matter what you do, you cannot make, you cannot produce love where there isn't any to begin with. And no matter what you do, you cannot say that the love doesn't exist now just because this has been done. When we say you're supposed to care about me, show me that you care about me. What we are saying is, give me proof. And when we are saying give me proof, we want to be sacrificed to. This is a trait of the ego. The ego wants to be important, wants to be special, wants to achieve amazing things, it wants to leave a legacy, it wants to be popular, it wants to be uh complicated, it wants to achieve things that no one else can do. And it also in that way wants to be special and important in everything. And so when we want, when we say care about me, we're saying sacrifice to me. Do something that you don't really want to be doing or that you would not have otherwise done because I want you to do it, so that I can see that as proof. Because if it's something that you wanted to do, that's effortless to you, that's natural to you, it's beautiful to you, well, then I can't really tell if it's because of me that you're doing it, or you were going to do it anyway. Right? So it needs to be a sacrifice, it needs to be proof. But then we say love does not do that. Love does not ask for someone to do something that they don't really want to do, even or that is very difficult for them to do and that they otherwise would not have done, just to make us feel special and important. This is not love. And it's similar with other things that we say we care about. And I don't want to make it sound like every time we say the word care, we are wrong in doing the thing. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just pointing out the fact that, for example, the word origin of care is the old English word karu, which means burden of the mind. Burden of the mind. So in that sense, everything we care about, if we're doing it with the wrong intention and the wrong understanding, it becomes a burden of the mind. So if you say, okay, I really need to make a name for myself. I need to be known because I'm operating out of the ego, right? I'm trying to be special and important. So I need to make a name for myself. I want to leave an impact on this world. What can I do? Oh, I could start a nonprofit, do a bunch of charity, and become like the most generous uh person on earth. Okay, I'll do that. Or quite the opposite. I'll go into finance, I'll make a lot of money that will get me a lot of power. And with that power, I can effect something that will make me a name, literally, maybe get me my name on a building or whatever. And that way, I'll have achieved something, and then I can die happy knowing that I did that. And so that care about wanting to leave something in the world, wanting to make a change, whatever it is, becomes a burden of the mind. And someone who has a burden of the mind cannot be at peace. Because if they were at peace, they wouldn't have a burden of the mind, right? If they already had peace, they were not trying, they would not be trying to become, to achieve something in order to fill in the blank. And so if we are constantly burdening ourselves with our cares, with our desires, with our wishes, with our expectations, then we will never have the one thing that those things we care about were supposed to supply us with. Peace. This does not at all mean don't get out of the bed in the morning. It only means don't get out of the bed in the morning for some burden of your mind. Because you are under the false impression that you are not a complete human being yet, that you lack something, that you need something, that you need to run away from something or run towards something, and that's why you're getting out of bed. If that's why you're getting out of bed, you will always be burdened and you will never uh experience peace. Because how can someone who is burdened experience peace? How is that possible, right? Now, someone who knows this, someone who understands, I can't just make a lot of money and become something. I already am something, aren't I? Does a bunch of money make someone a better being? Does the lack of it make someone a worse being? Am I not exactly what I already am? How can I change that by being with a certain person in a in a certain type of relationship, or by uh having a certain societal position, or by having a lot of power, or by having a lot of beauty? How can I change what I am? And so that I see is not a reason to do anything. Now, does that mean that there is no reason to do anything? No, that's just not one of them. If you want to do charity, go do charity because of the thing itself, because you say this is the right thing for me to do. I'm a human being, I see justice, I see injustice, I see what is right, I see what is wrong. I have a certain amount of resources, I have a certain amount of time. And I could do this thing that is within my capabilities, and that would help someone. Doesn't that make sense for me to do? Yeah. This is gonna involve a lot of work and it's gonna take a lot of time, and I'm not gonna need to get up early many mornings. Oh, but it's hardly a price to pay because I'm just living my nature. I'm not doing it because I'm burdened. When I wake up, I don't say I need to prove something to someone or to myself, I need to achieve this to become worthy. Or, oh no, what if I don't get up early enough and then this happened? Not because of that, not like that. But to say it's another morning, I am alive again today, what a beautiful thing. What did I do yesterday and what shall I do today? Oh, I'm in the middle of this project, it's gonna take three years. All right, good, nice. I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing, not in order to prove myself, not in order to become worthy, not in order to impress someone or myself, not uh because I'm chasing a fantasy that I want to fulfill, not because of that. I am not incomplete. I am already a complete human being. I do not lack, I am not somehow half. I am complete, and this complete being naturally gravitates towards justice, truth, beauty, fairness, integrity, and whatever those things like, whatever is of their nature, is of my nature too, and so I engage in them. I rejoice in my activities in them, but not as a sacrifice, not as proof, not as a burden, but because it is my nature, I love doing this. Whatever that is, and it doesn't have to be something, it's also an option to just say, I am as I said, I am completely full and and complete and lack nothing. And right now, these days, I don't feel like doing anything. Or I'm just gonna do certain things, I'm gonna be with my friends, I'm gonna uh work so much, and I mean I have to make money, I have rent and all these things, so I'm gonna go to work, I'm gonna come back. All I'm gonna do as a complete, full human being, not as someone who is somehow lacking something. So, this in this way, our cares defined in this way. Our cares constrict us and um they burden us, right? But of course, you can care for someone or something or a cause, something, and uh not do it as a burden of the mind. It's not the word itself that is the problem. It is our intention that uh the word origin of this word is really good at pointing out, right? But it's just a pointer, it's not the word itself. And it's not like anything we care about or care for is a problem, is wrong, not at all. As always, as we always say, intention is everything. If you set your intention right, nothing wrong can happen to you. If you set your intention wrongly, nothing good can happen to you. Right? And so this is about intention. Of course, get up in the morning, but why are you getting up? Why are you getting up for this intention or this intention? That's the only issue. Does that make sense? Does that make it clearer?

SPEAKER_07 2:00:32

Yeah, it makes lots of sense. Um yeah, so I was thinking about uh examining the intention. Uh yeah, while you were speaking. And I think I have some work to do there, and I'm gonna get there. Um thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:59

Thank you. Thank you for your question. Thank you for speaking here for the first time, and you are welcome back anytime. Of course, no expectations. I don't care if you come back or not. Okay. But it was nice to have you here, and it will be nice uh again if you choose to do it again, but no expectations, no obligations. And um I will move you back to the audience for now. Again, uh, thank you so much for um joining and for not letting go, for saying, you know, I heard something, it doesn't quite make sense to me, or it confuses me, or I don't quite agree with it. I'm gonna go ask. What did you mean by that? And if this is what you meant, why would you say such a thing? I want to understand. And it might not make sense to you, and you might continue to disagree, but you have not let it go. You have explored something that seemed for whatever reason interesting to you. And this is all the work of philosophy. This is the act of philosophy to just not ignore, to not distract oneself, and to not say, whatever, I'm just not, can't I can't be bothered to look into things just a little bit. Because it's one step at a time. You don't need to know where this is going to go, this exploration. But that's what we always think. We think we need to know everything before we even start it. But if we just take it one step at a time, amazing insights that we could have never planned for come out of the things that we would have never expected. That concludes for this time our uh most wonderful time of the week, I think, as it is to me. Thank you so much for being here. And um yeah, thank you for being here and for thinking about peace, love, and beauty, and trying to train your discernment of everything that is good apart from everything that is bad, all that is true from what is false, and to really make a commitment to seeing things rightly, seeing things in a way that is natural to you, that is peaceful to you, and to realize actually that the self was always there. I'm trying to find myself with myself, who is doing this? What a beautiful thing to realize that the self already is the self, that peace is not something that we need to put together or earn or pay for and purchase, but that it is already with us, and that if we lack anything, we only lack the vision of this. And thank you for being here when you could have been out there judging other people who are ignorant, when you yourself are also ignorant about many things that you don't know about, that is why you are ignorant about them. And thank you for being here, when instead you could be out there judging yourself also, and totally forgetting that everything you do to yourself, you do to others, and everything you do to others, you do to yourself. And so, whenever we pity, whenever we judge, whenever we hate, whenever we are disappointed, whenever we are angry, whenever we are jealous, we are doing all of that to ourselves, and we are not at peace, which is the one thing that is that all our activities are directed towards. Don't we do all the things we do in order to have peace, in order to find ourselves? But all those things are taking us further away from the experience of peace and the true self and love and beauty. So thank you for not accepting that situation and for seeing this conflict and for wanting to do something about it, and coming here and engaging with philosophy, with suggestions from all over the world to lift the veil, to aid us in our true vision of truth. And once again, this is the work of life, as we say. And I think we have done the work of life to all those who are still here with their egos, because that's just how it has to be right now. The ego doesn't leave me completely alone. It allows me to go to kinship, but it doesn't allow me to go unattended. To you, I say satisfy your ego by calling this the work of life, and that you have once again achieved the work of life today, that you have accomplished it, that you were successful in giving yourself to philosophy, to ideas, to the eradication of false beliefs, and count it among your successes, among your achievements. If you are still counting such things, that's okay.