Act from peace not for peace

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Thank you for being here or beginning to understand that peace is not a reward. Peace is not an award. Peace is not something to be fought for. Peace is something you are operating out of. You are not doing things for peace. You are doing things from peace. You are not doing things for love. You are doing them out of love. Love, beauty, peace, truth. These are not rewards. They have never asked you to fight for them. They have never asked you to prove yourself to them. They have been with you since day one. And we are always looking for other things. We are always looking for awards and achievements because we think the most precious thing that we can ever obtain is something that we do not yet have. But in fact, the most precious things we already do have. And that is the beauty of life. And that is the truth of life. And that is the peace of life. Because within this knowledge, there is peace. Within this knowledge, there's stability. No need for chasing good so-called good emotions. No need for running away from bad emotions. They can all come. Peace is not affected. Love is not affected. Beauty is not affected. Underneath at all, they are still there. I would like you to know that we call these meetings kinship. Because we cannot help but realize that the deepest mutualities, the most fundamental commonalities that two human beings can have with each other, are mutualities based on ideas and not mutualities based on biology, whom we're related to, or biography, whom we've known, whom we've gone to school with, or whom we've been working with for 10 years. Those are mutualities as well, of course, but we see that despite someone being our genetic brother, mother, sister, father, if we do not have a belief, a mutuality that's based on certain ideas, such as truth, justice, love, beauty, then we do not feel kinship with them. And often we feel guilty about this. It's like this is my family. I should, I should have this kinship with these people. But it doesn't work that way. And it's the same with someone who we could consider our longest friend. Things change, things happen. And if those ideas and beliefs are not common, mutual anymore, they believe in something else. They say love is not possible or there is no beauty in this world. It's a horrible, horrible place. Then that kinship goes away with that belief that is no longer held by these people. Yet vice versa, a complete stranger, someone whom we're we've never even met, but are maybe reading the some words from or just hearing about their actions of uh someone who lived hundreds, thousands of years ago. And from that one word, one action, one sentence, one thing that we learn about them or hear from them, we say, wow, this is akin. I feel that kinship with this person. They believe in truth. They believe in something uh greater than what they can immediately perceive, for example, one of the many things, whatever the beliefs are. But my point is only that this deepest mutuality that we feel, regardless of time, space, anything, is uh a mutuality based on ideas rather than any other thing. And the proof is right here. Everyone who is here now and listening to this later when it becomes a recording, what are they here for? What are we here for? We're not uh genetically related, at least that's not why we're here, if you even if anyone is genetically related here, and we're not so much biographically related, no one knew each other before we came here, and perhaps still don't, right? So the very fact that we are here, that we are interested at all in spending our time, any of it here must then be because of a certain set of ideas that we commonly believe in and that we are gathered around, assembled here for today. And that's a beautiful thing, and that's I think this kinship in action right here. So, once again, welcome to everyone, and also a reminder that uh these meetings are recorded for those who are not able to join them live or who wish to listen to them on their own time, and uh so that's why we we record them, but this is not a reason for you to not speak here, saying, Oh, I don't want this to be recorded, I I value my privacy, so I'm not gonna be able to speak here. It's not true because if you let me know that you don't want to be recorded, then you will not show up in the recording, and only people who are here right here, right now, will be able to hear or see you speak. And so that's absolutely not a reason. All you need to do is tell me that you don't want to be recorded, and no questions asked, we'll just have our conversation, and uh you will not show up in the podcast, which is what these recordings go on to become. You can find the podcast in anywhere you get your podcast, plus on YouTube. It has its separate channel, it's called Accepting the Universe Podcast. If you type that into YouTube, you'll find it. And um so don't let that become an excuse to that uh part in your mind that is always looking for ways to resist, always looking for ways to delay truth, to delay realization, because it assumes that it is a threat to it. And it's true, it is a threat to the part of your thinking, your the thought constructs that uh enjoy misery, actually, as we talked about before. We enjoy being able to say, Ah, you have no idea what I'm going through right now. No one can help me with this. Because that makes us special, right? That part that offers resistance to truth is the same part that also enjoys being special and important, unique, set apart from everyone else. And uh suffering, misery is one of the most direct ways into importance, into speciality, into distinction. Because everyone seems to be having a more or less good time. So I don't want to be one of them, I want to be special. And so we look out for every opportunity to become upset, to become uh to feel that we have been disadvantaged, that we have been uh victimized, that we have been hurt in some way. And that action that is um upsetting us is a real action. I'm not saying it's an illusion. I'm not saying that person is right in whatever they're doing and disrespecting anyone. Of course, they're not right, but that's their problem. That is their own suffering that they're putting onto themselves. Instead of looking at the beauty in this world and instead of focusing on themselves, they're looking at the ugliness in this world and they're focusing on other people. And so they criticize them or they praise them, they desire them or they fear that they will leave them, et cetera, et cetera, instead of just looking at the one thing that is always accessible to them, that is always them, the self. And so, yes, they're wrong in acting that way. Yes, they have no right. And if there's any kind of physical damage or crime being committed, then we go report that, we go tell people, we don't say, Oh, it's nothing to me. That doesn't need to upset me. This person cannot really harm me. Uh, I mean, we say that inwardly, of course, but outwardly, logistically, you go report that, or you go need or you do whatever needs to do to the needs to be done to the fullest extent that the procedures allow. So this is separate. But inside, in your own self, that that cannot be touched by disrespect, by someone else's anger, by someone else's meanness, by someone else's nonsensical actions, by their ignorance. That is being allowed by the self to come in. It is not directly, automatically something that can touch you, it is being allowed. And uh there are a million reasons to allow this, like I said, specialty, importance, distinction being uh some of the most top ones. And so we love drama when we look through the channels or when we decide what movie to watch, the the most dramatic movie seems the most compelling, seems the most exciting, seems to be the best choice. So there is that inside of us that is drawn to that, and that's okay, that's not an enemy, that has its own functions, but when it is allowed to lead our lives, it will always lead us into drama, contradiction, conflict, anger, and into uh fake, thrilling, negative, nervous, anxious excitement that will always ask what's next, what's next, what's next. I don't want to feel stillness, I don't wanna this drama, this this roller coaster needs to continue. Otherwise, I have to face those questions of who I am, which is really salvation. But again, to the resistance part, it is not salvation, it is destruction. And so now it is our time to decide which one we are going to allow, which one will be the guide, and which one really is the true so-called the true self. And so I will uh invite our first speaker.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Uh first, I'd like to thank you for your time. And what I'd like to talk about today would be the true self and the soul. And speaking of the soul, uh I'm thinking more of how Socrates would have seen the soul. So to give maybe the listeners um an understanding of how I see it with Socrates, um, of course, through the mouth of Plato, um specifically Plato's apology. Socrates going on his trial. Um he could have going through this trial, he could have, you know, lamented to the jury and potentially got off of his charges. Once he was guilty, he could have asked for exile or he could have escaped from prison, but he chose not to do these things because he had a higher belief in his ideas of the soul, and um he felt if he would do these things, he would have corrupted a soul. Um so the way I see it is Socrates can see the soul as being corrupted through ignorance or vice. And reading these things, I can see that Socrates was also aware of the false self. I'm not sure if he had an understanding of the true self. Um, from all my readings of the Greeks and philosophy. Um, I'm not sure if there's anything there talking about the true self. I can see the soul, I can see there's a lot of discussion about the false self or identities and externals, I can see that. So, how do we think about the true self and the soul? Um, I can see they're probably on the same side, but if the soul can be made worse by vice ignorance, but the true self can't. The true self can't be improved, can't be made worse. What does the soul and the true self come together? How do we work with that?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Well, thank you for your question, first of all, and uh thank you for spending your time here as well. It's very, very uh valuable what you're sharing and what you're thinking about. And it's just great to know on a human level that um you are out there reading Plato, thinking about the self, thinking about soul, whatever, and um exploring these things for yourself. And this is what I always tell we have to find our own connection to these ideas, right? Otherwise, they're always received ideas, and there's nothing wrong with them. Of course, we are receiving them. What a beautiful gift. But it will always be Plato said this, or Marcus Aurelius said this, or the Buddha said this, right? Uh, rather than doing that, we can receive those ideas, and then as you are doing now, actually very beautifully saying there's this concept of the soul, that's a received idea. There's this concept of true self, that's a received idea. How did does this is this just two words, two different words for the same thing? Or what how am I to make sense of this for myself? It doesn't need to make sense for anyone else. I think this is what you're believing too. Uh, it needs to make sense for me. That's the important thing. And so, in that, uh, with that um goal, we can certainly exchange certain ideas. Um, but ultimately, if you don't let go, if you keep exploring this, if you simply keep the book open rather than saying, okay, this is a lost cause, or I know everything and I'm gonna close it up, just keep it open. Then you can have this conversation, you can have a hundred more conversations, you can keep reading Plato, you can keep reading other things, and maybe at some point there is this thing that happens where due to your openness, you are receiving yet something else. But maybe this time it's actually coming from the self or from an indeterminable source, which is always beautiful. And then you feel like, aha, this is within me. This is not just read, this is not just received, this is not an intellectual thing merely, but this is something that I see in my life, I see it in myself, I see it in my habits, I see it in my nature. And so, wow, this really makes sense to me on an intuitive, deep um level. And this is a beautiful thing. And this is this is the process that gets us there. So, what you're engaged in, I always say it might seem like a small thing or a subtle thing, but this is really the so-called work of life. This is the heart of it, right? First of all, exploration, and then of course, within that, the discourse that we are having right now with each other, but also that we can have when we're journaling or by reading another book that seems unrelated, or by talking to other people, right? So, discourse is not just two people speaking, it can be all kinds of things. I mean, you do discoursing with Plato and Socrates when you read about their ideas, and so this is the beautiful thing. Um, I I don't remember specifically when Socrates, first of all, as you already stated, we know everything about Socrates through Plato, right? And even Plato is not certain that he wasn't necessarily writing down a history, he was also a philosopher, to say the least. Um, and he has his own ideas and he has his own ways of communicating them. And often Socrates might just be a character in one of his philosophical plays. And so uh you're right. When when I often read the idea that the soul can be corrupted, that ignorance is an enemy to the soul. Um, here we always have to remember what gets lost in translation. It happens to me so many times when I read, this is most recently and most severely happening to me with reading Seneca. Sometimes I read a passage in Seneca, and he says he talks about something about the mind, that the mind is above all else, that the mind is the one we should um listen to, and um that the mind needs to be served, etc. etc. He keeps going on with the mind, the mind, the mind. And I know for a fact that Seneca does not, from other things he's said, I know for a fact that he would never put the mind number one. And so I don't know Greek, I don't know, I don't know Latin, right? He wrote in Latin. And so I go look up the original word. This is where AI has one of its few uses so far, uh, where you can say, you know, what is the original of the Latin word that was translated as this? Come to find oftentimes when, at least in the version I have, the word mind is translated from some Latin or again in other sources from a Greek word that really means uh the inherent self. And happiness is uh often comes from a word that actually means the good life. And the good life does not necessarily mean happiness, the good life means the proper life. The proper life is what in alignment with uh one's nature, and one's nature as a human being is reason. So when people translate the proper life, that which is in alignment with reason as happiness, necessarily we get the idea that wisdom uh the the highest good, that which we should strive for is merely another emotion. And people saying, Well, my the pride in my work makes me happy, and happiness is the ultimate goal, as the ancient Greeks say, or my family, and so appeasing my children, my parents, my friends becomes almost a spiritual practice for me. So just by the translation, just by the translation from Greek or Latin into English, we are completely misguided into making an emotion, a feeling, a mood, our utmost priority in life. What an amazing thing. And the same thing I often find, of course, with the word soul, the word soul is a very loaded word, right? Very overused and many times misused. And so all this is to say that, you know, a little practical point there that we should uh whenever you're honing in into a word like this or a concept, an idea, really do try to look up the originals and the original sense and the meaning of it. Otherwise, we get misled like this. And especially with the word soul, that can mean anything. Some people use it synonymous with the true self. Some people uh use it as, I don't know, some people believe in the higher self and the lower self kind of thing, and the soul is maybe the higher self sometimes. Um people use it in all kinds of ways, right? So we cannot know what a man 2,000 years ago lived in a sort of different uh culture and then translated many times over, and also a secondhand telling of everything he ever thought. So you can see there are there's a telephone game going on, right? And so rather than trying to understand maybe what Socrates exact exactly meant with the word soul, we can just um as we need to do with everything else, we should figure it out and give it the meaning that we see works in our experience, we see works in our daily life that makes sense. Um yet at the same time, I do believe. That Socrates, from again from everything else he said that I know of him, I think would have used the word soul much more like the way that we sometimes use the concept of the true self, right? In the sense that no, the soul can actually not be corrupted. But it is also a fact that in your logistical life, in your human experience, right, you are awareness, you are the true self, right? But you are in this experience, in this world as a human being also. So that awareness is looking through human eyes. And so uh if the nature of a human being is reason, and I do believe that, again, not because other people said it, but because I I find it to be valid in my own experience, then ignorance, of course, is at odds with reason. If you are in an environment that is dominated by mostly ignorant people, and you are not um yet at the place where you say, okay, I can discern the true self from the false self, I can discern um hate from love, true from false, then of course that environment that you're in, which is dominated by ignorance, so to speak, is going to degrade your human experience in the sense that you will be confused, you will be angry, you will be uh certainly having many false beliefs, right? That's that's what ignorance is, it's a collection of false beliefs. And so I think in that sense he's saying that the soul can be degraded. Because it's also a very subtle idea. What we often talk about here, that the true self is nothing that we can even know of. And so certainly it is of the nature of awareness. Awareness has something to do with it big time. Um, but this further separation that then ignorance cannot harm that one, that's a very subtle idea. And you're right, maybe Socrates and and Plato and people like that did not uh quite make that separation, at least not always. Although, like I said, I also remember hearing many times from Socrates slash Plato that the soul is what? The soul is immortal. So something that is immortal, how can that be damaged? Right? So clearly they hold these ideas often at the same time, and maybe there is um a certain non-clarity to how Plato has written these things down. There's so many reasons for that, right? But the character, the nature of Socrates of Plato always penetrates through the larger body of work, right? When we don't look at specific sentences or paragraphs or even specific dialogues, we always see, you know, they see the soul as something that's immortal, something that it cannot be given or taken away by anyone, certainly not by other human beings. And um something that has no growth, something that has no lack, something that cannot be diminished or built up. We also see this idea. And so always, always uh we have to return to our own experience, to our own understanding without trying to without getting too intellectual uh about these things. And um that's what I would say generally when we're when we're reading these texts. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Yes, I appreciate your thoughts. It's um it's made it clear. Um I've I've had some I I tried to work it out on myself. Like I like to visualize things where I kind of maybe see the true self as a as a movie screen, and then the soul or the character is in the logistical world working with the virtues and vices, and then the false self is more like your identities and your the mask that we that the soul can wear as a tool, like as long as it separates and the true self is aware that the ego, like the ego is not a problem as long as you don't fuse them together. But if you keep them apart, the ego could be used as a tool, maybe. Um not sure how it all benefits the true self if the true self can't be benefited, but so sometimes I get stuck in well, what what are we doing in the logistical world if it's not gonna improve the true self? I guess. Um maybe we do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

But where does the idea come from that our activity is to benefit someone or something?

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Where does that come from? Yeah, I mean, I guess the true self.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I wouldn't say so. Because uh you experience the true self not needing anything, right? When you let go, right, when you put all your experiences aside, all your opinions, your political beliefs, and and everything, right? Your your narratives, your memories, even when you you can put that all aside, right? We all have moments like that where that happens naturally, but you can also bring it on. And then you see there's this this humming, right? There's this base tone of life that you can hear when you put all that aside. And you can, I don't want to put words or ideas in in your mind. I'm I'm I'm more talking about my experience, and I I assume you will um agree at least with some parts of this because it's I find it's a human phenomenon. But if you don't, you can also tell me, and that would be an interesting discussion as well. But to me, when I put all of that aside, consciously, right? There's this, like I said, this this base tone of life that you can experience where you are, of course, still there. You can put aside every single thing that is observed, right? Your opinions are observed, your ideas are observed, your emotions are observed, your thoughts are something that you are seeing. Because when we're saying, Oh, I'm overthinking, I'm so overwhelmed by my thoughts. We could not we could not say that if we would not be observing this happening, correct? So that's its own proof already that one can observe one's thoughts because sometimes we have a nice thought and we say, Oh, that's nice. Or we have a so-called disturbing thought, and we say, Oh, no, I want to get away from that. This is being observed. And so if that's being observed, it's not me. Everything that I can observe, everything that I can see, just like I'm seeing objects in the room, I know that's not me because I can see it. If I couldn't see it, then that's uh that's a separate issue, right? But everything that I can see, I am not. And so when I put all those things that I can see, that I can observe, that I can perceive in a basket, so to speak, and I put that basket aside, just for a few minutes, I'm gonna pick it back up, right? No problem. But just for a few minutes, I want to put all that aside. What can I not put aside? Right? I put my emotions, my ideas, my beliefs, my opinions, my past, my hopes and wishes and desires, if there are any, uh, everything I can put in this basket. What can I not put in this basket? That, what I cannot put into the basket is often referred to as the true self. This awareness, this attention with which I am saying, uh-huh, I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna put it in the basket. That, that, which I'm doing that with, that cannot, that I cannot take and put into the basket. Right? But that is the one that puts things in the basket. So that one cannot leave. That one cannot go. If that one went, I would go. Right? Because our beliefs, our emotions, our ideas, our desires certainly are constantly changing. So every time a desire comes in, I was there before. Every time a certain opinion leaves because I realize it's not a true one, I am still here. So these things are constantly coming and going, and even if they stayed forever, I know they are not me because they're being observed. So, like I said, when we put all that aside, there's something that we cannot put aside. And that's something when we are with that, and not all the other things in addition to it, we tend to feel or tend to experience again. This is not an emotion, we just tend to experience being a transparent eyeball, as our good friend Emerson says, be a transparent eyeball, meaning an eyeball that sees everything does not see itself. And is itself not really any one particular thing. So that one that transparent eyeball, has that ever asked you to accomplish something to make it better? So therefore, the idea that um well if nothing I do makes the true self better, then why do I do it? Immediately exposes a belief that um our activity is supposed to be in the service of the true self to make it better. Is that belief true?

unknown 32:36

Right?

SPEAKER_01 32:36

This is what we need to think about.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Yeah, that's the chat, that's the challenge, right? Like, if the true self is okay or perfect, what are we doing then? Like, um is it for the false self to have still a good life? Um we still uh aspire for for virtue and awareness, even though it's not affecting the true self in a logistical, it allows us to live a good logistical life.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

When you um go to the park and where when you are somewhere and where it's a beautiful, it's not it's it's nature, and there is a piece of clean garbage, right? Nothing, nothing disgusting to touch, but something clean right next to a trash can, right next to it. Do you sometimes go and just pick that up and throw it right in the trash? Sure. Why do you do that? It's the right thing.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Did you do it all to make myself better or even to make this park better? Or did you just not really even think? But when questioned, would you just say it's just the right thing to do?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

It's the right thing, and I think this just leads to peace, right? Um, so that's the answer, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Sure, but uh peace is your nature. Peace is not something for you to attain, peace is not a goal, peace is not a reward. Peace is your nature. So you are not picking up the piece of garbage uh for peace, you're picking up the piece of garbage out of peace. Meaning your nature is peace, peace just goes and does the right thing, not for a reward, not for an achievement, certainly not for other people to recognize how uh cleanly one is or how fair one is and all these things. Peace is simply not interested in vice, let's call it. It's just not interested. It will see a thousand dollars laying on the floor and it will and it will uh say, why should I put that in my pocket and leave? Like it doesn't even think about it, but if we ask, hey, you could have easily grabbed that, why didn't you? What would peace say? Peace was I didn't even think about it. Why would I do that? It's not mine. If it was mine, I would have said, oops, drop that pick it up. So peace is not working to better itself or certainly not uh someone else, something else. Justice is not doing that either. Love is not doing that either. We don't the true self does not do things for love, it does it out of love. This is subtle, but I I think you are seeing what I'm saying. Okay, so there isn't there is no question of what's in it for me. This is what people say who are still driven by the ego, who have identified with the ego, because the ego, once again, uh looks for distinction, looks for importance, looks for speciality, it looks for I am important. I am different than these people. I am much more loving if that's the goal, right? Different personalities have different desires and different lacks, and the ego decides its actions or its its wants from that. And so for me, it might be a point of pride to be a very loving, a very caring person. And so that's why I would put the uh piece of trash up, and ideally someone's would be watching me doing that, of course. That's when I would get my best thrill out of it, right? And vice versa, you know, when a lot of people have children out of ego, right? They want someone to uh take care of them, someone to worship them in many cases. And this is often a reason for people to have children, right? To uh make someone in their own image to play God also in many ways. And so when someone practices love as a reward, or care, I should say, because that simply isn't love then, then what they're doing is actually hate. Because what does the parent do who is uh making special pancakes in the morning for the children, and they spend 45 minutes an hour doing that, and they put it in front of it and they don't even get a thank you. Oh boy, that's a big problem. And uh a lot happens after that, right? That doesn't just the ego cannot let that go unpunished. So it's always looking for a thank you, it's always looking for praise, it's always looking for uh wow, you are really, you know, you're quite something, you're so special, you're so amazing, right? That's what the ego is looking for. So if we are still practicing uh fake love with, you know, what we think is love as a reward, as a prize, then we are still driven by false beliefs. We are still driven by driven by the not you, by the false self. And um I retract the word still because someone can come generally to the understanding what the ego does and generally have let go of many, many false beliefs and have a genuinely beautiful, peaceful existence. And every now and then, in certain situations, in certain roles in life, that can still happen, that can still crop up. So I don't want to say still as if uh you don't do it for eight months and then you do it again, and it's like all your progress has been erased. That's not that's not how it is, right? Every now and then it can still happen, and that's that's fine. That too is not an enemy, that too is not a threat to the true self, it's not a problem. But um so when you say that, when you say, Why do we do anything if the true self is perfect? That is a question that comes from this uh this part of the mind that is looking for rewards, that is looking for distinction, for importance, for uh prizes. The prize of love is love. The prize of peace is peace. We do not do loving things in order to be loving, we do loving things out of a loving nature. If we're truly, if we know what what love really is, right? But if we're just looking for a thrill, if we're just looking to get excited and we're just looking to for some distinction on a very personal, ego-human level, of course, because to the true self there is no distinction. That's the whole point. There's a oneness to that, um, then we will act like this, then we will pick up the piece of trash, not because it's the right thing to do, but um so that we can internally, at least, even if no one's watching, internally we can put a mark next to our virtue of cleanliness, for example. So if there's still that log keeping, that bookkeeping going on, that's something that the ego does because the true self, once again, is not interested in. What do I care if this is logged or not? What do I care if this is appreciated or not, if this is even seen or not? What does the true self care about that? The true self is interested in doing the right thing because it's the right thing. Oh, I'm gonna do the right thing and I'm gonna get a medal for it. That is not something that the true self says. That is not something that the true self is interested in. And vice versa, uh, how are you so strong? How are you so disciplined and you can abstain from greed, for example? The one abstaining, the one applying willpower to stay away from greed, is still the one who is identified with uh false beliefs. The one who is saying, I must become virtuous. If I do not get away from the vices, I cannot be virtuous. If I cannot be virtuous, I am worthless. I am failed. I am a useless human being who doesn't even deserve what they have, etc. And that's okay. That's that's what leads us to this understanding, right? First, we know nothing but ignorance. We don't even see a second option. And then a second option is introduced to us in the form of virtue. And then we do that and it feels so good. And then we say, Well, I just want to feel good. And so that's why we do the virtues more and more until we realize. Wow, that's just a natural way of living. It's an effortless way of living, it's a frictionless way of living. I am much less confused, I am much less conflicted, I am much less disappointed, resentful with life, with the world. And so we see slowly, oh, so that's my real reward. Before it used to make me feel really good. Now I see this even higher reward. And then beyond that, even is simply the human nature, which is interested only in virtue, sees no other, no other option, and is naturally, effortlessly disinterested in its opposite, whatever that might be. It doesn't even think about it. And so, and I again I don't want to put this rigid thing up of this is step one, step two, step three, this is how it goes. I'm I'm not saying that. Maybe that that's when I look at a trajectory, maybe that was how it was for me a little bit, but this is not this is not the path, this is not a journey, this is not a thing. This is just when we use language, we have to talk sequentially, right? And we have to talk about it as if it's kind of like stages, but I want to point that out too. But again, now that you're seeing that, now that you're seeing this false belief who is in the back of your mind saying, but why do anything then? Who is who is that? Who is speaking then? And this is why I say exactly, and this is why I say the human being is of the nature of reason because every single time it is so with me, it is so with all these uh people that I get to interact on a daily basis, and it is so with you right now. I believe that when we are shown truth, we immediately lose interest in what was false. It's not a battle. It's not a fighting. Oh, now that I see that this voice that has been questioning every single thing I do in this wrong way, now I see the enemy. Now I'm gonna go battle it and I'm gonna go fight it, and hopefully I will win. It might take months of years, but I will do my best. No, it's gone like that. At least it's The interest is gone. Maybe there's the habit still, but the habit is of the person. The habit is of the body. This is a physical thing we're talking about. So the that's the point of habit. Habit, uh, if you do it long enough, it becomes automatic. So now the intention has changed, but the habit does not maybe maybe change again. And this is another narrative that the habit will take a long time to adjust. I'm not saying that either. Maybe that too will be instant. But if it isn't instant, then can't we see that that's just a habit that it still needs to uh needs a different influence to change? And so it's not this battle, it's a recognition, it's a realization. And if the human being that was not of the nature of reason, you could tell a person all kinds of reasonable things, and it would have no effect whatsoever. And you might say, there are so many people that I tell reasonable things to, and they don't seem to care. That's because they're not open to it. They're not open. They already think they know, they are not considering other things, they're not taking applications right now. If you apply to a place that is not taking applications right now, you cannot expect them to pick you. Right? But this does not disprove uh the fact that if somewhere is taking applications, then this will be considered. And it will also, the most competent applicant will be selected. Some people are just not taking applications. That does not mean that they're not of reason. As a nature, fundamentally, they might not even know this, right? So many people, um, everyone is the true self. There's no other option than to be the true self, whatever that is, right? But some people think they are their occupation, they are their career, they are how well they are doing emotionally right now. They think that's what defines them. They think that's their identity. And so, how can we go and tell someone like this about these things? What we do is we say, look, aren't you a Christian? Yes, yes, of course, I am a Christian. I've been brought up Christian. Well then, uh, what does your religion say about deceiving people? Oh, you're not supposed to do that. Okay, so then why did you just do, oh, I'm so sorry, that that's a vice. I'm never going to do that again. I promise, I promise. And so if we get them to not deceive other people for malicious, selfish uh reasons, if we can get them to do that through their religion, and then they realize on them by themselves, hopefully, that, oh, this is a less complicated life. This is just beautiful like this. So, okay. So then they might open up, and then they might start taking applications, right? And this is why these things exist. This is why it is ignorant of us to dismiss uh people who are of a certain philosophical idea or over a certain religion or who identify as having no religion. Everyone has their path, so to speak. There are as many ways to truth, as many ways to meaning as there are people. And so when we say, uh, oh, I'm a Christian, but you're a Muslim, you got the wrong religion. I hate to tell you, I'm sorry, but you know, you got the wrong. That is a very ignorant thing to say for obvious reasons. Because show me one reason why virtue somehow cannot exist in Islam, or why how virtue cannot exist in an atheist. There is no reason for that. Vice versa, just because we are Buddhists does not mean we're going to be virtuous people, or that we will understand what love is and what fairness is, and that uh love is not a prize but a disposition. That fairness is not an award, but a simple attitude on nature. So look what a beautiful thing. You came here asking for one thing, now we're seeing, uh huh, there was this thought construct that was constantly asking, what's in it for me? What's in it for me? And then someone comes and tells you, Well, the true self needs nothing. So it says, So why, why, why, why are we doing these things then? Let's go to the forest, let's not do anything, let's leave our families because we don't need to do any of that. What or rather we don't see the point of it anymore. Now, are we gonna allow that being said, or vice versa? Let's party all day, let's spend all our money, nothing matters. Are we gonna allow this? Or are we gonna be simply disinterested in that, saying, yeah, the true self cannot be made better or worse by doing anything, but the true self is naturally interested in certain things and naturally disinterested in certain other things? It is the beauty, the privilege, and the opportunity of a human life to be of love, to be of fairness, of justice, of integrity, of an experience of beauty. Why go to the park? Why look at the flowers? You could say, What's in it for me? Nothing's in it. Nothing's in it. It is simply a delight. Your eyes are made for it, your nose is made for it. Right? And so you have a certain amount of years, how many exactly? No one knows, to be in this experience. To be a physical being that can conceive of invisible things such as love and beauty and and fairness and what is right and what is wrong. And life naturally brings to junctions where this discernment can lead one one way or another. This is the human experience, as they say. You can abstain from that human experience, absolutely. Neither engaging in it nor abstaining from it will neither harm nor better you. It's true. And so you're well within your right to, for whatever reason, say, I'm gonna abstain from this experience. Fine. But one can then also say, What a joy, what a beautiful thing. However, this universe works, however, it came about this way, I am in this body, in this lifetime, in this way, and there are these certain things around me. So I can interact with them or not, that's up to you. But what a beautiful thing, I think. Right? And that that's why I interact with it. That's why I do not abstain from this human experience. But it's it's a so-called personal thing, right? On based on our individual preferences, on our so-called personality, which is not us but is a logistical thing. We can choose to go one way or another. It's totally up to us. And that is, as they often say, again, another overused term, another overused concept, the gift of life. This is the gift of life. You are not rude to reject it. That's not what gift means. Gift simply means it was not promised, it did not have to happen, it was not owed to you, but here it is anyway. You can take it, you can regift it, you can throw it in the trash, or you can open it and cherish it and use it until it lasts, or whatever else you can think of doing with it. It's up to you. That's what gift means. And so this is your human gift, and the true self is not the one who asks, Well, why should I interact with why should I accept this gift, or why should I reject what what is this all for? The true self is uh the gift receiver as well as the gift giver, because the self is is everywhere, awareness is everywhere. You are not an isolated phenomenon. Life as well as the experience of life is the self. So, why should I do this? Is a distinctive question, meaning someone is there separating things. This is life, this is death, this is me, this is someone else, this is what I like, this is what I don't like, these separation, these categories. And then saying, what is this thing supposed to do for me? What's in it for me? What will this lead to? Will it help me with any of these problems right here? So who's the one asking this? The one or the one that looks for separation, for distinction, for speciality, for importance, and uh will do anything to get it any way you can. This needs to be decided within ourselves. This question needs to be answered within ourselves, and then from that, whatever your disposition becomes, you can go live that or again abstain from living it, whatever. Does that make some sense?

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Yes, and uh I have so much gratitude for your thoughts. I can see much clearer now, and I wanted to thank you so much. My heart is full. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Thank you for bringing this here because um just as peace and love and all those things are our human nature, all the so-called problems that we have, as you said when you came here, you said something about an issue or something that you're trying to work out. Whatever you're trying to work out, all of us are trying to work out. It's all the same, right? And so when you bring that here, we're all seeing, wow, I think the same way. I can't believe this. I haven't seen this till now. So whatever you're seeing, we're seeing, whatever we're seeing, you're seeing. And so this is what kinship is for. This is exactly what it is for. You brought this here, you made it possible for us together to unfold this and for us all to benefit in our logistical experience, at least. Again, the true self is what it is. That did not change, but we've let go of yet another false belief. And now the person, the little human that is going to work, coming back, having a weekend, having a something, having a drink, uh, that one is feeling relieved now. And that one is is having from now on uh a more frictionless day-to-day. So that too is beautiful because again, that's the human experience. The human experience takes its being, its existence from the true self, just like the dog's experience takes its uh life from the from the true self within that, from the awareness, from the being, from the I am deep within it. And so this human experience is lightened a little bit. This human experience is more unobstructed, seeing the beauty in this world, right? Because the one who is asking, why, why, why do anything? That one is exposed now for what it is, for the false self, for the resistance. And that's a beau beautiful, beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. And uh how can one be a parent knowing this and be a so-called bad parent? What a beautiful thing to pass along to a child. What a beautiful thing to pass along to a friend. What a beautiful thing to maybe write if one is so inclined and have some readers read it. In anything that we do, if someone's a teacher to teach with this in mind, if someone is a bus driver to drive the bus with this in mind, everything that can be done within the human experience is done better better with a vision of peace, with an openness, with a minimum possible amount of false beliefs, everything. So, to the one who is still looking for reasons to do it, this is a good reason to do it, also. Right. So, thank you very much once again for for being here. And um uh actually, the I'm I'm gonna ask you the question of the fortnight. We call it the question of the fortnight because it changes every two weeks. Every two weeks is a fortnight. Uh, you don't have to answer it, I'm just gonna ask it anyway, and then you can decide to answer or not to answer. The question of the fortnight right now is if everything was exactly as you want it to be, what would you do with your time?

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Um I I didn't uh I heard it, your question of the Fortnite in your last podcast, but unfortunately, I haven't given it uh enough thought. Um so I I won't answer, and I'll give other people some opportunity to talk today. And I wanted to thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Okay. Well, thank you for that. Although I do find what we've already spoken about very relevant to this because there's this voice in the mind that says, okay, so everything, let's assume everything is exactly how I want it to be. That one would still ask, well, why is it and why should I do anything now? And actually, it was kind of good when I had some things to work on. I wish it was like this again. So that one is again, would not be happy with that, in my opinion. And I think we can see that. And it would always be asking for what's next, what's next, what's next. So this question, too, is to expose exactly that that one which we already talked about with you today, that resistance that is always asking, oh, what's in it for me? Why should I do this? That is trying to find motivation in awards and prizes and recognition and distinction and importance and speciality. That one, that one is being exposed more and more as time goes on. And uh, that's a very beautiful thing. So thank you very much for everything. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna uh move you back to the audience for now with great gratitude, as I said. Uh fantastic, almost pinpoint, I would say, to say, why do anything? That's a very, very important question. And as you can see, and as we all can see, this comes out of exploration without the exploration that we do in ourselves, for ourselves, with ourselves, so to speak, uh, meaning without anyone else asking us to do it. That's how these things are discovered. And what we're discovering is confusion. Oh, I have an issue. Oh, this doesn't make sense. This is a fine, that's the first step. That's what needs to happen for the next step to occur. So why be afraid of confusion? Why be afraid of something not making sense? Why be afraid of fear? It always leads to truth. And I will invite our next speaker.

SPEAKER_05 59:35

Oh, it's nice to speak to you again. Um I have kind of a um perhaps like a more experiential kind of sort of thing I'd like to bring. And it's mostly about how I sort of engaged the ideas that we sort of talk about here and how it kind of unintentionally led me to sort of re-examine why I do music as like a hobby. Because I realized that I was actually kind of staking my entire existence on it, really, and I realize now that that's like well, I exist anyway, without that, and there's no kind of need. So I've you know I don't think the habit of kind of leaning into that is necessarily gone, but it's I sort of examined that and it really kind of put a lot of things in a different perspective, and it took a lot of pressure off, I guess, as well. Like, 'cause I've been going to like um this is a bit more logistical, but I've been going to like open jam nights, which uh I wouldn't have been able to have done uh d a year ago because I was like really consumed by a lot of these limited self-beliefs, uh false beliefs, and yeah, and it like you've sort of said previously, like I just I just kind of just one by one have been dropping them and it doesn't really take much effort, I guess, it just sort of happens. But there is still like the there is like this sort of voice in me sort of doubting all of this, but I'm like saying, well, okay, whatever. Doubt away, I'm just gonna keep going. And so yeah, I um that's quite a bit more specific, but I guess it sort of contains everything we're sort of talking about, and yeah, I'm still sort of in the middle of the examination, like it's I I really still like to do music, and dropping that has helped me sort of find a lot more just sort of joy in sort of learning it, but without the pressure, and meeting other people and just having a sort of a less frictionless life, I guess. And yeah, it's I'm not sure where it's going, and I'm trying not to sort of worry about that. Um so yeah. Brendan, if you have any thoughts about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

That's beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and you can at any time ask a more specific uh question if if there's something you'd like to know specifically, but just listening to you, uh, it's a wonderful thing that you are saying, that you are observing this and that you are allowing it, because nothing needs to be disallowed. The one um the part of our mind that disallows things and that is that feels threatened by things is the ego, is the false self, is the thought construct we talked about before. Ego, of course, is not a real thing in the sense that it's not some spirit or some organ in our in our body that is doing these things. It's a thought construct, it's a set of beliefs that we have identified with. So we're saying, This is me. I am uh I'm passionate. Number one, I'm passionate. Number two, well, if I'm passionate, what am I passionate about? Uh cooking, uh uh gardening, uh no, music, music. Yeah, that's my passion. All right. And then, uh, okay, so if I'm passionate and it's music, that means uh I don't want to just be any musician, I want to be a good one. Of course, right? And so now I'm trying to become a good one. Okay, and now every time I see someone who is as good or maybe a little better, that becomes my point of focus, and that is maybe a threat, maybe someone I can learn from. But if they reject me, I'm gonna feel I'm gonna resent them for the rest of my life. And so this goes on and on and on, and this is the this is the thought construct, and we're saying, This is me. This is me. And now you are seeing through all the things we discuss, right? Um, as you are letting go fall of false beliefs, because you've heard the idea before, you are not your career, you are not your so-called passions, you are not even your thoughts. So now I believe probably because of that or something to do with that, you are you are thinking, hmm, well, in my case, that's music, among other things, perhaps. And so if I am not that, that brings up some fear. Right? And that fear is irrefutable evidence that we've been identifying, that we have been saying my worth is at least partially measured by how well I do in this particular logistical little activity that people do. What a terrible uh thing we've put ourselves into saying I am this small thing. And everything that can hurt this fragile small little thing means is doing damage to my own self. This is what we do. This is what we do with playing an instrument, this is what we do with relationships, this is what we do with career, this is what we do with objects, our house, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:55

Yeah, well, I notice it and sorry to interrupt, I do notice it like in parallel with a lot of this is just like one example. Um, but yeah, like you say, it's yeah, it's all kind of the same thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

It is. And it's just the individual, the so-called personality that decides what particular thing I am attaching to in the same exact way. And so to realize that um can be scary, of course, because it's it's a change, it's a big change. We operated under a certain set of rules and values and ideas, and now that's changing. Change is scary to the part that is threatened by change, but again, the self is not threatened by change. And so it's time to decide or rather recognize what you really are. Are you the musician who uh, if we if we smash their instrument, who is then not allowed to exist anymore? Or are you the one who decided in the first place that music you might fancy music? Right? And so it's a Simple as that, really, when it comes down to it. And this is not to say very important point, right? That we all recognize. This is not to say music is bad. This is not to say anything that you were doing with attachment, with uh due to identity, due to ego itself was the wrong thing to do. What was wrong about it was your intention. Right? Anything that we do with the wrong intention is a is a wrong thing to do. And anything that we do with the right intention, so long as it can be done with the right intention, is the right thing to do. No, music is definitely something that can be done with the right intention. Of course. Some things cannot be done with the right intention, right? Stealing, uh killing, maybe, things like that. Whatever you think is like inherently bad, even if you had a good intention, it could not be done with a good intention, right? And so, but music is not one of those things. We know that because music is not inherently something uh destructive, not inherently something that uh a form of escape. Everything can be used to escape. People use religion to escape the daily life or or their troubles or their whatever, right? And so intention is everything. Everything. So if now that you're dropping these false beliefs and you and now you say, but you know what? I still enjoy music making as a human being. I know it's not me. I know it's the personality that likes it. I know it's not the true self that needs it. But it's an enjoyable experience. Not thrilling, right? I'm not using it to escape. I'm not using it to enhance my life, and otherwise I would be lacking something. No, no, no. This is a bonus. This is a beautiful thing. And I enjoy it. I do it, hours pass. I'm fully aware. I'm not, again, not escaping, but hours pass because it's so natural to me, so effortless to me as a human. What a beautiful thing. So then, uh-huh. After all, even though we completely changed our intention and we've let go of every single reason why we used to do music, now there's still a reason to do it. So then there's no need to let go of the thing itself. It's all about intention. But we might realize that when we let go of all our false reasons, our wrong reasons to do a certain thing. After I let go of those, I can't find a good reason to keep doing it. And so then that might be something that we let go of. Right? But either way, it's it's a it's the perfect result. It's exactly that what needs to happen. And so I believe that's what you're experiencing, and you're letting it happen, as you said, and it might end up in a place where you say, you know what, there's totally different reasons now that I'm seeing to do music, and so I'm gonna continue to do it. And these are proper reasons. Or yeah, I'm I've let go of all my old reasons and I cannot find any new ones. And so I'm just gonna let go of music, and that's fine. Whatever it is, you are fine with it. Whatever it is, you welcome it, right? Because whatever it is, it is truth. And so no reason to run. You with music is just as valuable if we're still looking for value as you without music. And so you the particular activity that you are engaged in as a full, complete uh being is really doesn't matter. It matters only on a logistical level, of course. Um, one thing makes me money, the other one doesn't, and I need a living, so I will do that for fine. Uh, but the true self, right? That that simple I am, that existence with which you do any activity, that one does not need the activity. The activity needs it. Right? You don't need the activity, the activity needs you. Because you are the being, you are not the doing, you're a human being, not a human being, as they say, right? So all you're doing comes from your being. None of your being comes from your doing. And so whether you're doing music or not, it really does not matter to the being, right? And that's a beautiful thing to say. It it again, like we talked to the previous speaker, it does not mean why do anything then. It just means uh you don't need to do anything, as you are also saying, right? I realize that I don't need this for my so-called self-worth. Um, it can be anything. And so that's a beautiful thing. I I'm I'm very glad uh for you uh as a personality, as a person that you are doing this for the for yourself. Um because it's a beautiful thing to realize this.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:56

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's um and you know. Yeah, um I don't really have much to add to that. Um I wouldn't mind answering the um the fortnightly question if you want to ask.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Yeah, that would be great. Uh so the question of the Fortnite is if everything was exactly as you want it to be, what would you do with your time?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:18

Yeah, because I I actually answered this via text, and my answer is pretty much the same. I I pretty much kind of immediately saw the word want and kind of for me, I sort of noticed that that was like an ego thing, right? That's a want. And as we've sort of learned, is that the true self, whatever it is, it doesn't want anything. So if if everything in this hypothetical, if I was in that mindset, if everything was I wanted, I would probably still be consumed by wanting more. Like like a you know. So I I sort of answered it from that hypothetical, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

So you really believe that, that if um if everything was exactly as you wanted, meaning, you know, logistical, you figured out the music thing, you figured out everything, okay? Uh what do you think you would do with your time? You really think you would just keep wanting things?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:18

No, if I had that in mind, if if I had the desire for to have things how I want necessarily, rather than just sort of accepting how things go, no matter good or bad. Um does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

It does, no, absolutely. And this is what happens when we uh where language starts to fail us when we have to we we only have the word I, but we mean two different things because it can mean the false self or it can mean the the so-called true self, right? Um and you're right, the idea of wanting, of course, is never going to go away. Someone who wants something now, even if they get it, they're going to continue to want. This is what the question is, one of the things I guess that it is trying to point out is to the wanting mind, there will always be a wanting, there will never be satisfaction. That's the whole point of wanting.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:15

Yeah, that was what I was sort of trying to get to. That's how I sort of into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

But the question also then for you is for you more specifically, now that you are aware of this wanting, uh, what wanting really means, for you specifically, if everything was logistically as you prefer it to be, right? Because you you're still a logistical also uh being, you take care of things, you're thinking about your music and things like that. If all the things that are currently those logistical issues, uh things that need certain decisions or need to be weighted out or whatever, but you have a preference, of course. You say, you know, I would rather live in this place than this. If you I'd rather be doing this than this. If all of that was exactly perfect, what would you do with your time, you think? What would your day look like? Not uh certain activities, but um what would you do with your time generally, you think?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:12

That's interesting that is.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:14

Yeah, I would uh suppose Yeah, not having to be concerned of anything logistical, I would be exploring more sort of ideas, I guess, and spending a lot more time probably reading and writing.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:36

Um you know trying to well not even trying to, I'd I'd just be probably more at peace, I guess. Or from peace, as you just said, doing things from peace. Yes, uh.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

Ah, but does does uh this is the question now. Does peace require you to have your affairs taken care of before you can have it?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:01

It does not. Yeah, interesting. This is the This is quite a tough question, this isn't it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Well, it's a beautiful question in the sense that it it always begs the question, however it is answered, what prevents you from doing that now?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

Right? So the idea is that we don't need to have everything exactly as we want it. Because, for example, uh, as you mentioned, the text channel that we have here on Discord where every question of the Fortnite can be answered at any time. There are some people who said, Oh, I would dance, I would do yoga, I would uh write more, and I would go on walks and I would enjoy nature. What prevents you from doing that now? I understand maybe you want to be in nature five hours and you only get to do it 15 minutes every day, but you're doing it. What is the difference to an aware present uh person? Because it's the wanting mind that says, Oh, you only have 15 minutes, uh, look at the watch, uh, you can't really enjoy this, you can't really focus on no, but an aware-present person, 15 minutes or five hours, what does it matter? In terms of the experience, in terms of peace, you know, an experience of nature in 15 minutes without thinking about that it is 15 minutes is just as valuable as an experience for five hours. Because there is no time in awareness. Awareness does not keep time because awareness does not use memory to determine the value of something. It does not use progression, it does not use the idea of achieving or advancement or anything. These are all concepts, these are all thought concepts that we identify with. Awareness is welcoming what is. And it does not judge lesser or better. We can discern, once again, logistically, we can discern this is a healthier product than this. But that's not a judgment. There's no emotion attached to it, there's no resentment for the one and desire for the other. It's simply a you say that's on the realm of logistics. But where is peace? Is peace in the realm of logistics? Or can I do anything logistical, even that which I don't prefer to be doing? Can I not still be at peace doing that? This is the question. So uh I'm I'm glad you answered it that way because that's what's inside of you. Essentially, at the very end, which I think is the case with all of us, when we say, Oh, I want to be, I would be dancing more, I would be doing this more, I'd meet friends more. Ultimately, it's about peace. They say, Well, it's a peaceful activity, it's a beautiful thing to do. So that's why I want to do more of it. Essentially, that's what always is behind every answer of I'd be doing this activity or this activity behind it is peace. And then the question is what prevents you from having peace now when things are not at least exactly as you want them to be. We have this idea of peace that peace needs to be a certain thing. That peace is an emotion, that peace is a feeling, a mood, a certain experience. Peace is not that. Or rather, peace is not only that. Peace can be a beautiful bicycle ride through nature. Peace can also be waiting at a malfun malfunctioning stoplight. Okay. Peace can be uh bliss. It can be that. Peace can also be I'm not feeling so good today. Yeah. Rent is due. My friend just left town. I'm not gonna see them for a year or two. And on top of that my computer broke. But that's peace too. Why not? Why not? Why not underneath all of that find what all of that is sitting on? What is this sitting on? What is my computer breaking? Or me getting a new computer finally after so many years? What is that sitting on? What is the ground of being? What is the bedrock of everything? Is it not peace? So I think this is what we must recognize that we have this very specific idea of peace. And by the way, that very specific idea of peace was dreamed up by the one who has yet to achieve peace. So we are trusting a nine-year-old who has never built, uh, never put together a chair from IKEA to tell us about what it's going to be like. We don't know. The one who's looking for peace, the one who's been meditating for 10 years, the one who's been reading self-help books, self-help books, the one who's been journaling for years, looking for peace, trying to understand these things. How does that one know what peace will be like? How would that one know peace, even if it hit him in the head? But we are still listening to that one. We are still trusting that one. We're still saying if I get this and this and this and this, which is all achievable, I can do it. And I'm getting closer. And when I achieve this, I will achieve peace. That's when it will happen for me. Why are we allowing this as our roadmap, as our goal, as our whatever? Why are we saying you who have never experienced peace, who who have who has no idea what peace is clearly, otherwise you would have it? Why do you get to tell me what to look out for, what to strive for in order to attain peace? I think we all think, at least I did, I can speak from my own personal experience, I equated peace to bliss. I thought peace is bliss. I get to experience bliss every now and then, meaning I get to experience peace every now and then. Hmm, what can I do to experience bliss always? Because peace to me uh was 24-7 bliss. That was my definition of peace. I don't know about you, uh, everyone here. But that to me was a good candidate. Wow, if I can experience bliss 24-7, that's peace, no? And so everything that is against bliss, which is merely an ephemeral emotion, a mood, right? The door rings when I don't want it to, bliss is gone. Um we have less money than what we want to have, bliss is gone. We wanted to uh spend a lot of time outside today on our one day off, but it's raining. I can't go outside. Plans are canceled, bliss is gone, and so the whole world, randomness, fate, if you believe in it, chance, luck, all of these things become my enemy. Every single loud person, rude person, disrespectful person, weather, climate, political events, all of these things become my enemies because they stand in between me and bliss. But peace is not a mood, peace is not an emotion, peace is not a feeling. Peace is not something that can come and go. Peace is the bedrock of existence. Peace is like stillness, and you can equate this even to physical stillness. Whenever you relax, right? Whenever you are able to, whenever you relax and you let go and you don't tense up, you completely let go of all effort, all activity, all doing. You are still, right? And only when you are still are you resting. Only when you are still are you relaxing. Only when you are still are you regenerating. And so peace too, in the real sense, is something effortless. It does not need your doing, it does not need certain conditions to come together and to perfectly work. It does not need to win for you to win the lottery. It does not need for your enemies to die. It is not waiting for you to accomplish your goals and for you to get a promotion. It is already here. And so, in terms of achieving peace, why are we doing anything? What is that going to get us? And if we really believe in this idea that, oh, if I could dance more, if I could do more yoga, I would be more at peace. Aren't we also believing in the idea that peace is something that can be taken away from me? I break a leg, peace is gone. I get food poisoning, peace is gone. Is this what we want to believe in? Is this what we really think peace is? But that's what we're saying when we when we say, Oh, I when I feel good in my body and when I have a good amount of money, I don't need much, but a certain amount. I have good friends around me, tasty food, and a great schedule that I can look forward to, and a bunch of free time. If we're saying this, then we are looking to win the lottery in order to win peace. And we stand no chance in this. Peace will always be a coming and going thing. Peace will always be something we literally fight for, and you will always have enemies to your peace, and you will always be disturbed, and no one who is disturbed, no one who is angry, no one who is resentful, no one who is vengeful, no one who is jealous, no one who is disappointed, no one who is discontent is at peace. But discontentment, jealousy, resentment, anger, and disappointment we bring on ourselves. The world is not doing that to us. And even if it did, peace does not require it. So what's the problem? Peace is not an emotion, peace is not a mood. Peace is not such an ephemeral weak thing. Peace is not a changing thing. Peace is the bedrock on which all your worries, your anxieties, and your successes, your achievements rest on. But the thing that they rest on does not need them. And so peace is always there. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:20

Yes, thank you very much. That that articulates a lot of ideas that I've sort of been circling around for honestly quite a few years in disconnected sense, but you've kind of brought all that together. And yeah, thank you. That was that was very beautiful. And uh I agree with everything pretty much. It's uh yeah, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Thank you once again. You are the reason why we were uh had the opportunity and the privilege to talk about these things and to maybe unpack them just a little bit. But isn't this so obvious to us now? Peace does not require us to prove something. To it. Peace does not require us to pass a test or to overcome a certain thing and then to have peace as a prize. This is not how peace works. The one who thinks that this is how peace works was never at peace, has never been at peace. So why are we still listening to that? Why are we still listening to the so-called ego, the identities, the so-called past self? Why are we still allowing this? There's no need. Let the car break, let the plans change, let the disappointments come, and let also the so-called successes and achievements let them all come, but never ever associate them with peace. Never ever say, peace is benefited now from my success. Never ever say my peace is disturbed now due to this so-called failure or challenge that I'm currently experiencing in my life. It's got nothing to do with it. So thank you. Thank you very much for answering the question of the Fortnite. This is what I was really hoping for someone to engage with it this deeply and this openly. So thank you very much for that. I can only hope that, you know, if if all of us here engage with this question uh a quarter of the depth that you clearly have engaged with it, uh, then I think it will fulfill its intended purpose of making us let go of yet another false belief or two. And so this is a very beautiful thing. We're very grateful to you. Thank you so much. We are um uh I think we benefited very much. The person of us, the one who was affected by false beliefs or by true beliefs, that one is very grateful to you. And I will um move you back to the audience for now. Again, very, very uh grateful for what you shared and your openness. And uh thank you so much also just sharing your experience about music, because that too, once again, is something that we're all dealing with. And if we're all dealing with the same things, the so-called solutions uh are the same as well. And this is how we come to those solutions. And I will invite our next speaker.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:25

Hello, greetings. Hi. So I don't know if I have a concrete question, but uh I'm gonna ask, even though I don't know what it even means to ask. But um That's okay. If we posit that philosophy on like a surface level, it's just like rationalization. So it's our way to understand the world or refine like a model. Um and by doing that we sort of re reinforce beliefs or and discover beliefs and ideas. But at the same time, I also feel like that's not the whole picture, because it's like it's very easy to just accept a rational idea, but I feel like it's something different to sort of have the true understanding. So there is like a leap from the rational to the true the truth, and so to be at peace with the truth, there's like it re I feel like it requires us to cross a bridge. Like you have to do some levels of integration, right? And you would probably um entice to do like the work of life, do journaling, listen to your inner self and find the truth within. Um but yeah, I was just curious to sort of hear your perspective on this metaphorical bridge. Um, can it be crossed in like our fleshly state?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:56

Uh well, first of all, thank you very for your question. This is this is uh uh a bit on the intellectual side, but that's okay. We love intellectuals, okay? And that's all fine. And uh and we can we can get intellectual every now and then. It's fun. It's not a wrong thing to do inherently. Uh, but I would uh also at the same time urge us to consider the fact that you are not apart from truth. Right? Often we like to, and this is not just us intellectuals doing this, religious people uh do this as well. All everyone does this, where we see a difference, a separation between uh so-called truth, God, reality, uh what else? Peace, even, love, beauty. There's that, and there's us. We're because we're such important people, we're separate, right? We're important beings, we are the observers of the universe. There are there's us, and then there's the universe, and we're looking at it. But where are we looking from? Right? Are we looking from the outside? So are we looking to truth from another place? Are we looking from falsity? Or are we looking from truth number two? Where are we looking from? Right? When we're looking at truth, we're looking from truth also because you are not separate. Look, I haven't said at all what truth is, because I don't know what truth is. I cannot say this is this is truth. I cannot build you something like that. But uh simply by recognizing the fact that whatever truth is, I must be part of it. I do not stand apart from reality, from truth, from from existence, from being, whatever you want to call these things. And so you're right. Of course, there is oftentimes there is an objective, simple, even truth, and we're just ignorant of it. And sometimes we guess it and we get it half right, half wrong, whatever it may be. You're you're absolutely right. But simply recognizing that we are also part of that which we are not understanding, or which we are perfectly understanding, that is actually a huge component of truth, I would argue. Right? And so I think it is also in your nature. You can judge or discern truth from what is natural to you, also. That is how I uh think of peace, for example. I say peace is a human being's nature, it is your birthright, it is not something you need to go achieve, it is something you already have because it is so natural to a human being to be at peace, to be still. I know when we are identified with uh false beliefs and and we really truly believe them, we feel like uh peace is a battle. We feel like to become still, to be rid of thoughts of emotions is a big battle. And so sometimes we achieve peace, but uh that's only because we've identified with it. The natural human being, so to speak, the the one who has let go of attachments, that one naturally uh sits on peace and realizes that every time they were disturbed, they would, with their own effort, with their own inertia, with their own energy, they would get off of peace and go do something else. This is what happens every time when we are disturbed, something happens. We don't have to necessarily react to it, at least not in the way that we do, but we choose to, and we think that that's the direct connection between the thing that happened and our reaction naturally automatically follows. It does not, we realize. With so many things in our lives, I'm not saying with everything, but when someone comes to us and says, you know, I'm having a lot of relationship troubles, uh, you need to help me with this. Then we know to say, wait a minute, why am I responsible for doing that? Why do I automatically need to spend my time like that just because you wanted to? So there we realize this, but when the when a thought comes in and says, you know, in in eight years, if this happens, what are you going to do about this? Then for some reason we say, oh no, uh uh let me think. Maybe this, maybe that, and we're consumed by it. We never think to say, well, uh, I'll see what to do when I get there, if that even happens. So many people don't know that this is an option. But then we learn that it is an option, and so we stopped doing that. But now uh have we figured out the truth? Or are we just recognizing something that has always been the case? And so you're absolutely right. If truth was an automatic thing, if truth uh did not, there was no bridge, as you say, then there would be no ignorance, there would be no false beliefs. If everyone could just 100% know the truth and there was a specific system method to do it, then we would all be doing that.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:28

But it's sort of like knowing what the true self is, we say you can know yourself by knowing what or who you are not. You cannot know who you are, perhaps, but you can know who you are not. Are you your obligations? Are you your past? Are you the opinions that other people have about you? Are you those things? We can say, no, I am not those things. What I am, I do not know, but I know that I'm not these things that I used to think I am. So, with truth in general, I think it works like this, where we can say, what is not truth? Right? And then we only need to watch or experience what is natural to us. Right? Someone might say, uh, peace is something you have to fight for, peace is something you need to achieve. Peace is not easy to get. And I say, wait a minute, when I actually, when I let go of everything, when I let go of all trying and doing and overcoming, I naturally fall into peace. So I know that that's not true about peace. What is true about peace? I'm not sure. But I know that that's not true about peace. And just knowing that that is not true, it enhances my experience of peace. And so I find truth to be the same way. Anything you want to know about, whether this is the true self or peace or love or beauty or uh what to do with one's life, whatever it is, I would say try to figure out what is not the right option. And from that, eventually you're left with so few options, essentially, that you say, you know, any one of these will do. And if a better one ever presents itself, I will shift to that. But there's something inside of me that is always there, that is always full and complete. If I can find peace now, even though everything is not perfect at all, then what can happen that will make me lose this peace if already I am finding it in an imperfect situation? Why would I need things to be perfect? And if they were even less perfect, would would it then become impossible for me to have peace? I don't think so because we literally know of specific people who went through the Holocaust, as we always give the example, who even there had peace. And so, what can happen to me that inherently, impossibly, that I could never have peace automatically. This happens and peace is gone. What can I say that that this is? And so why do I need to know what peace is if I know that this is not how it works? Right? That peace is not something uh a reward and award, something to be achieved, that it cannot be taken away from me. If I know this, what else do I need to know about peace? What peace really is, I still do not know. But I know that it does not have the trait of ephemerality. It is not fragile, it is not something another human being can deny me or award me with. So by knowing what it is not, I know so much about what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:02

So you would say that everyone is always at peace, but we're merely just like distracted by you know the ego bringing on fear or other feelings.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:14

Yeah, because once we realize that if if peace is not an emotion, how can fear ruin it? Right? Because when we are blissful, as I said before, uh, or we're joyous, we're we're ecstatic. Ah, this is uh I'm having such a good time, I'm so happy. Fear comes in. Yes, happiness needs to go. Bliss goes, joy goes, because fear is there. But is peace another emotion like joy and bliss, or is peace something else? If it is something else, how why are we afraid that fear will kill it? This is what I'm saying. So we need to make sure when we say peace, what do we mean? If someone, as I used to do, uh calls peace, uh calls an emotion bliss, the absence of fear, peace, then yeah, peace is something that can be destroyed. Peace is something that can be taken from you at any point. Anyone with a mouth can insult you and take your peace away, then. But is truth that this is peace, or is it more true, at least that this is not peace, that peace is something else? So in my experience, I can look at that, and I'm certainly not the first one. This is also something that has just been suggested to me, and I found it to be true. Anything can happen in life, and I can still, if I'm paying attention to it, if I'm paying attention to it, I can still see that peace is still sitting there. I, you know, there's this uh classic, classic example in uh Buddhism, Hinduism, uh all kinds of things. The sun is in the sky, right? And I can cover up the entire sun with my thumb. Now the sun is gone because of my thumb. But is is the sun really gone, or uh is it just covered up for me because I put my thumb in front of it? This is how we can, this is more of how I think of peace. Peace is always there, like this, and then and then the disturbance, the problem, the issue comes in and goes in front of it. Now, if you are someone who believes that anything they cannot see does not exist, then you'll say, okay, peace is gone, peace is destroyed. And then when that problem goes away, it's like, ah, finally, there is peace again. Oh, what a relief. But if you are someone who knows that just because the dog is in the other room doesn't mean that the dog has stopped existing, then you can also know, ah, okay, there is something I'm dealing with in my life right now, but I know for a fact peace is behind it. It's still there, it's not gone. So just because I can't see it anymore does not mean that I need to now be grieving the death of peace. But that's what we do every time a problem comes in, or a challenge, or some anything really, we we we start grieving the loss of peace. We say, Oh no, what a terrible thing. I just had peace. I went through 10 years of difficulty and I just had a little bit of peace for a few months finally, and now this happens. That's what we do. And that's okay. That's everyone has a right to do that. That's your life. Uh, but I choose to rather see that just because things are obstructed, uh, my vision of them is obstructed, something is in between me and them does not mean that that stops existing. And so that's how I view peace now. Because, yes, when fear comes in, happiness does not only go to the other room, it is actually gone. Like you are not experiencing it. But since peace is not a feeling, not an emotion, um, just like love is not an emotion, by the way. This is also our common misunderstanding, in my opinion, of course, this is debatable. But to me, love is not a feeling. So anyone who comes in and makes me feel good, oh, now I have love. Now I am I am blessed with the experience of love. And now, of course, they have all the control. And so as soon as I experience this kind of love, which is not love, uh, fear automatically comes in because now I'm afraid of losing it. And I do everything to appease person this person. I will fight for them, I will steal for them, I will cheat for them, I will do unreasonable things for them. Why? Because they hold love, they hold happiness. And so here again the question is love merely but a feeling? Or is love hard as a rock? Always there, immovable, indestructible. And does love ask for sacrifice like the lover does? The lover asks for sacrifice, the lover asks for proof, the lover demands to be made special to be uh be made to feel special, important. Our anniversary is here. Where are the flowers? Where are the chocolates? The lover says this. Now, does love say this though? This is the question. And if love does not say this, then what is all this for? This proving, this fighting, this sacrificing, this achieving, right? Because we fight for love to attain it and then we fight to maintain it. But if love never asks you to fight, if love never asks you to sacrifice and to um uh make an altar for it and to and to worship it, then what is all of this for? So to me, truth is like this, peace is like this, love is like this, beauty is like this, justice is like this. Justice does not ask you to fight. Justice does not ask you to go win in court to appease it. You should hold people accountable, you should take them to court, and ideally, yes, they should be um logistically, physically punished for what they are doing. Not punished rather, but to be prohibited from doing it again. That's really what the justice system is for, ideally. Yes, that should ideally happen. But is justice harmed if the judge rules wrongly? Is justice itself harmed? I believe it is not. I believe that we in the courts and the justice system look at justice and we do our best to be in alignment with it. But corruption comes in, laziness comes in, ambition comes in, and certain things are sacrificed for certain gains. That's just human nature. That too is human nature, it happens, right? Uh and that shouldn't happen, and and we we should do if we're in the position to do anything about this, we absolutely should. It is our human nature also at the same time that will then go and do something about it. But is justice harmed? Are we killing justice with our corruption? Or are we simply killing our own justice system, the efficiency of that, the trust we have in that is is that what we're eroding every time we do that? We need to see which is which.

unknown 1:48:43

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:43

And we could go on like this, but to me, truth is is just like this as well, right? Yes, we cannot uh perhaps ever know what the truth is, just like we can never know what the true self is, we can never know what God is if you believe in in that idea. Um, but we can know what these things are not. Right? Is God asking you to go kill someone? Is God asking me to uh slave 40 cows and to bring uh their meat? Is this something that God asked me? If not, then I will stop doing this. I still don't know what God is, but I know that it does not ask me to do that, and so I will stop doing that, one thing at a time. Oh, but I can never know what God is, so I will stop uh stop um uh living in accordance with what I know is natural to me. I will stop looking for peace and love and beauty. I will I will give up hope on all of these things, I will not believe it. This is thinking, this is intellectual, this is mind racing, right? It's not necessary. Intellectualism is very powerful. The mind is very powerful, it's a beautiful thing, it's an amazing tool. But when we give it full reign and we say, You do whatever, you are my guide, I will do whatever you want, that's when we get into complications at some point. Right? So there is a point where we need to say, look, mind, this we cannot know. What the self is, to make a list of the self's attributes and say, This, this is what the self is and nothing else. Look, we we can never say that.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:27

So let's apply our so let's let's shift our attention to see what it is not. Do I really need to go spend five hours a day chasing this thing in order to find myself? Do I need to do that? Mind, can you help me with this? Look, this is not reasonable. This does not make sense. I don't think you need to be chasing. Thank you, mind. I appreciate that. Now, what about this? To me, this is the proper use of mind. Right? And that's when it becomes beautiful. And so I know I didn't answer your question in in the way that is uh maybe satisfying in in the intellectual sense, but uh I just see certain boundaries to the mind there that we can transcend if we let go of intellectualism at that point. And I think we can sort of smell truth even though we still don't know what it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:25

Yeah, I mean I think your answer is even better than I uh phrase my question because like I can accept that we cannot know truth and just I'll I'll be fine with approximating it. But uh yeah, the framework you mentioned seems very beautiful, like it's like you're chiseling away at at uh your own statue of of virtues that are always sort of within you. Uh you just going through life, you know, you things stick to you that are not supposed to be there, like emotions that are fleeting, and you just have to acknowledge that they're uh they're not a part of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:06

It's a beautiful thing. Right? This is the human experience we're talking about. We don't have to get stuck. I know we get stuck. And it's okay, even when you're stuck, you are at peace. This is what we can realize. And then we can maybe get unstuck and we can do things to do. That's all fine. But there's this background. Or this foreground on top of which everything happens, however you want to think about it, right? That's again just the visualizations. But just this knowledge that just because peace is in the other room, it is not gone. This is enough. This is enough for everything. Right? And it's a beautiful thing, and all activity can still happen. You can think and you can do and you can achieve and you can build and you can look forward to, and you can do all these things. As long as you don't forget this, you can do everything that you do in peace. And this is what we talk about. This is awareness of awareness. There's this awareness inside of us without which we cannot do anything, right? Either we are the awareness. Again, some people say the true self is equals awareness, fine. Um, clearly has something to do with it at the very least. And so everything we do, we do with the with the lights on. I mean, there's an aw, there's someone there, there's something there, right? That is the doing. Without that something, there is no doing. And so, whatever that is, uh, if that is aware of itself, so to speak, then everything can be done uh with the right intention and with the right perspective, and also setting boundaries, right? Because this awareness is also the one that discerns things, that says, enough, enough of this, you know, or mind, come on, I need you on this. Or the emotions come in and say, Okay, I I see what this means, but I don't need to communicate with them. Thank you, anger, for coming in and showing me there's something going on that I don't think is quite right. That's why anger is coming in. But I'm not going to communicate with anger, I'm going to figure out why anger has arisen in the first place. So that is that awareness. And if we remain aware of awareness, if we are, if you remain aware of the state of things, then what can overwhelm? Right? Well, what is the problem? And this again is something we all have to just think about, ponder ourselves. But thank you very much uh for your question. It's one of those fundamental questions. And um, intellectual or not, it is an important uh one. And as you can see though, every question can lead us to the source of uh what that question is even asked by. Right? Where does the question even come from? It can lead us back to that if we just keep aware. So thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:11

Yeah, thank you very much for your answer. It was very insightful.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:15

Thank you, thank you. Thank you for your openness. And uh I will move you back to the audience for now. And uh again, with deep gratitude for that, for that great openness, that honesty, and that that that curiosity, this exploration. If we are not in this exploration, who can tell us what? And how can that be heard? How can that be perceived? This is what we were saying earlier. We can go up to an ignorant person, and I say ignorant without any judgment, I'm just saying that's how the we are all ignorant of something, right? So, how can we go up to an ignorant person and just say this is truth and have it be accepted if they are not open to it, if they're not receiving, if they're not taking applications for truth right now. What can make them see? Nothing. And so to explore is to say, I am open, I am ready, I'm welcoming whatever it is. I don't know, otherwise, I wouldn't have to explore, right? I don't know what it is, I don't know what's coming, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm open. This person, when they see truth, they will be able to accept it, they will be able to see it. So, this is what I'm saying. We do not need to be smart, we do not need to have degrees in this. In fact, there is no degree in this. We all we need to do is remain open. If you're open, you're always ready for uh one belief to be replaced by another. And so I appreciate that. And I will uh invite our next speaker. The next speaker has asked to remain anonymous, but their question is about thrill seeking. They're asking why they still seem to prefer thrill seeking over reality and why this thrill seeking still has so much control over them. Uh what a beautiful thing already it is to see. If this is your experience, I'm not trying to say that this is how you should think about it, but from what you're saying, I am hearing that even though I am uh thrill seeking, I know that this is not peaceful. I know that this is a conflicted way of living, I know this is a roller coaster way of living, right? Because a thrill is what? Is the high point of a roller coaster? And for every up, there's a down. And so if we realize I'm always chasing an up and I know for a fact that every up comes with a down, then what's the point? What's the point of living like this? Why not live like this? Right? And um thrill seeking is an emotional thing, obviously. We feel bad, so we want to do something to feel good, good. And so we're constantly chasing that which makes us feel good, but it is no different than an addiction to anything else. The person who is addicted to, I don't know, alcohol, whatever it is, uh they wake up and they haven't, they didn't drink anything for six, eight hours because they were sleeping, they feel bad. They feel bad. They're shaking and they're restless and they're they're have they're sweating, and uh, I don't know what's happening. And they naturally want to feel better. And so they drink a lot of alcohol, and then and then the shaking stops, and the sweating stops, and the trembling stops, and the anxiety also of you know, chemicals in the brain, whatever. Uh all that calms down a bit, and so they say, ah, this is my medicine, this is my potion. But eventually, either they will die from this practice, or they will realize it is actually the high that is bringing me the low. I am addicted to the high, and the addiction entails the low. And so, as long as I administer the substance, I will always shake, I will always tremble. And so the solution is not to drink more and not to drink less, but to drink not at all. And just like the alcoholic, once again, when we are told we must stop thrill seeking if we ever want to be healthy and at peace, we say, but I can't even imagine a life without alcohol. How can I ever live without the substance? And we say the same thing about thrill seeking. How can I ever live without thrills? Is what makes my life thrilling. Thrills are make my life exciting. Thrills are make my are what make my life uh enjoyable. So am I supposed to live without excitement, without enjoyment, without happiness? This is what we think. And it's the same again, the substance abuser who says, but this brings me joy. Without this, I feel miserable. So am I supposed so am I supposed to live in this miserable state for the rest of my life? That uh how I feel when I wake up, shaking, trembling, and not nauseous? Is this how I'm supposed to live? I would rather drink and die from that than to live like this. But we tell the alcoholic, no, this is because you're administering the substance that you feel this way. If you didn't administer the substance, yes, you will feel worse. Yes, you will feel worse for several days, perhaps weeks, perhaps months. But eventually, when you are uh off of the substance, you will have a quality of life that not only matches, but far exceeds your quality of life that you had when you were drinking. It's so parallel, it's amazing. And it's the same with the thrill seeker. Yes, the thrills will be gone. Yes, your highs will be gone. Yes, that excitement, that so-called what you think is joy, and when I say you, I mean all of us. What we think is joy, yes, that will be gone, but we will realize that what we call joy was never joyous. That what we called peace was never peace. And now, now that the substance is gone, the receptors are finally able to receive peace, true peace, true joy, true contentment for the very first time. But something needs to give, something needs to make place. Right now, your peace receptors, and again, when I say you, I mean everyone, this is this is human nature. Your peace receptors are blocked by thrills. The the thrill comes into the receptor and you think, ah, relief. And that wears away, and then the receptor is open again, and you say, Oh no, uh emptiness. I feel emptiness, as if emptiness is a bad thing, by the way. This is another thing we realize when we get off the thrill seeking. Emptiness, so-called stillness, is the most stable, the most beautiful, the most amazing state to be in, and it is a it is a state that can be sustained. No high, whether from a substance or from thrill seeking, no high can be sustained. A thrill is is excess. Thrill is we wait for something, we accumulate something, then we release it at once. All week I've been waiting to go to work and to hear compliments for the project that I completed. And so all that's bundled up. I come into work and and everyone's like, well, good job, great. Uh, and we're gonna give you more money and we're gonna we love you more. And I get excitement from that, I get a thrill from that, but that cannot be sustained. They cannot praise me for the next 30 years or even the next 10 minutes, and so anything and everything can be a thrill. We need to know this inside of us. What do I do to get a thrill? I need to know that. And why do I do it? What is it in my life that I am looking forward to? Because as long as I'm looking forward, I cannot look at the now. As long as I am anticipating, I cannot love what is here. Because if I loved what is here, why would I be looking at something else? If I'm looking forward to meet my cat, but the cat's right here on my lap, then I wouldn't be look looking fantasizing about how beautiful it's going to be when I have my cat on my lap again, because my cat is in my lap. But that's what we do with life. We say, This is not good enough. This is not good enough for me. And so that's why I go into imagination, I go into fantasy, I go into hmm, what can get me? What can enhance this? And again, this can be anything: people, relationships, substances, uh achievements, anything, money, anything, or all of them. The issue is not that your life is lacking, the what is lacking is the vision of the completeness of your life. And I can say that to anyone without knowing what their life is. Because history we have a record of, people we know of, data we have secured, and it shows us in every time in human's history, on every continent, in every moment imaginable, there has been a human being that has accepted it, that has welcomed it, that has found meaning, and then has seen completion in it. This is fact. This is fact. We read people again, I will always go back to it. It's it's just too perfect. The Holocaust. We read Viktor Frankel, we just uh read another uh book in our book club about Edith Eger. Um they all say the same thing. And in fact, uh uh the that last book that we read, she's uh just like Viktor Frankel, she's a psychiatrist, psychologist, whatever you want to call it. And in the very beginning, she talks about one client who had something quite big happen. I don't know, maybe someone died or something, and and that's why they came in for therapy. And another woman came in, and her sorrow, her misery was that the Cadillac she ordered was in the slightly wrong color than the one she ordered. And uh Edith Eager in this book says, Don't think that one misery is bigger than the other one. They both are experiencing misery in the same way. The wrong color Cadillac is just as miserable to that person as the death of a loved one is to the other. It's misery, it is the same. And so you are not lacking anything. This is what everyone goes through. Every single person and not only goes through, but most people never come out of this. Not because they're not able to, not because they're not able to, but because they've never been shown another option. And we don't always have to be shown, sometimes life just shows us, but uh we do things because we think there is no other option. We do things because this is how they've been done. And even though I have this idea of, oh, maybe I don't really need to be doing this, and I look around for inspiration, I look around for a living example, and I cannot see one. I say, I I must be strange, I must be weird, this is never going to, and so I still go with that other option. And so what we need is our living examples. And especially in our time, we don't even need to know a living example personally to know that they have existed, to know what has happened. And living examples we have plenty. Whether you like Buddha or Jesus or Socrates or Victor Funkel or your friend next door, or someone here in this uh Discord community, it doesn't matter who it is, if you look for it, you will find it. And what comes from the lips of all of these people, Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, anyone you want to think of, they say you are no different than I am. Everything I can do, you can do. Otherwise, why would I be speaking to you? Why would they die on the cross to spread this idea? Why? Why would Socrates drink the poison if not every if this was not for everyone? If this was an exclusive thing, he would have gone into his uh very rich and wealthy friend houses, held private little gatherings, and said, Listen, this is truth, this is peace. But he did not do that, he talked to anyone and everyone, and they all got something from it. It's an option, it's a choice, and just like the addict, we think, even though now we see the choice, that we cannot bear it, that we are not strong enough, that we are too deep into it, that we are have been doing this for too long, that we are too old, or that we live in a place that uh requires this. This is all what every single addict goes through, every single one. And this is why it overcoming addiction is not an automatic thing, it takes a certain realization, and that realization is nothing other than if this person can do it, I can do it too. This is fact, this is irrefutable. I am not taking even objections on this one. Human nature is one. There is no dish human nature and this human nature and this human nature, which one are you? No, there is one human nature, one single human nature, and uh another irrefutable fact is you are a human being. So, simply by that fact, I know that you can stop thrill seeking, and that you then will see what peace is truly like, what stability really means. And uh every single thing that anyone can do in this realm of ideas, I'm not saying you can be an Olympic an Olympic athlete just because someone else became an Olympic athlete, that's not what I'm saying. But in the in the spiritual realm, every single person in potential is identical. And it does you you can say I'm stupid, you can say I'm poor, you can say these things, but truth does not require wealth, truth does not require intelligence, truth. Only asks for, not requires, asks for if you want me, it says, give me dedication. Dedication. What is dedication? Dedication is simply to keep choosing one thing over another. To keep choosing water over alcohol. The alcoholic will say, Water is so bland. Water is so uninteresting. But you do it enough, and you wake up in the morning and you feel one hundred thousand times better than any drink can ever make you feel. Just water, which is the most available, most sustainable, most plentiful, cheapest, and purest thing there is. And so it is with emotion versus reason. And thrill seeking is emotion seeking. And reason requires nothing of you. Reason says you are good just the way you are. And I am always with you. You do not have to chase me. I am not an award. I am not a reward. I am not a fleeting thing. I am forever yours. I was always there sitting in the corner as you were thrill seeking. I was always with you. I was always watching you. And again, for our friends who like to defend the emotions, I am not against the emotions. The emotions need not need to be suppressed or ignored or killed, even. No, not at all. I am merely saying when we are coming to a decision point, when we're asking, how should we raise our children? How should we vote? How should we conduct our lives? We should not go ask emotion. We should go ask reason. Yet when we are thrill seeking, we are asking emotion how to conduct our lives. Isn't that what we're doing? Because thrill seeking says this is a thrill. In order to get it, you have to get on the bus and do this and go there and it can experience this. So we're conducting our lives based on what emotion is telling us. Emotion is not there as a guide. Again, nothing wrong with emotion. Emotion is not your enemy. Human beings feel emotions, and it's the most beautiful thing. And when you feel anger, it's a signal. Something is wrong. Okay, reason. Please come over. Can you look what's wrong, please, so that we can deal with it? Rather than saying, oh no, I'm angry. I need to take revenge. I need to go destroy. I need to go kill. No, we say, hold on, hold on, stop. Anger just means something's gone wrong. It's a beautiful notification system. Without you even intellectually having to analyze the situation, it says, look, something's wrong. Please pay attention. And then you can have reason come in and say, ah, interest. Okay, I will take that notification notification. I will see what's wrong. It's beautiful. This is the role of emotion. This is the role of reason. They're working together. But when we make an altar for emotion and we worship day and night and we burn incense at it, and reason is just sitting in the corner, that's when we are living a life of roller coaster, of high and low, and life and death. We die every day, and then we need to be reborn every day with them with the roller coaster. But but peace is eternal life. And so why keep dying? Why keep killing? Why keep suffering when you can have eternal life? I'll tell you why, because it's too boring. Everything is too jacked up, everything is too heightened with this drug. This drug is so overwhelming, so exciting that when we're off of it, we can hardly feel anything, we can hardly hear anything and sense anything. Because we're too amped up, everything is too overwhelmed, everything is too stretched. But if we stop administering and all that calms down and settles in and is not stretched out, but comes back to its natural, healthy shape, we can now see the eternal indestructible, changeless stability that is peace. And within peace there is joy within peace there is approval. Within peace there is uh the most human of joys and again, sustainable, always there, never asking you to prove yourself to it, never threatening you with leaving. But in order to have that, you must give up that which you think you cannot do without. Think you cannot do without. That is the only thing between you and peace is this belief that you cannot do without this uh cruel uh master that you have adopted at some point in your life because someone told you or something happened and it it lured you in by saying, I will give you, I will give you an escape, I will make you feel better. And so they they made yourself necessary to you. But the only thing you must realize now, this is not, this is a captor. This is an exploitation. I am not getting anything from this. I am dying. This is what they'll seeking does. So all you have to focus on now, if you want to get this is your decision, this is your life, you do whatever you want with it. No one gets to tell you otherwise. No one. You have the right to suffer, you have the right to be at peace, it is your choice, completely up to you. Uh, no one gets to tell you what to do. But if you decide to choose peace, all you must do is stop administering the drug. Go within yourself and say, hmm, technically, you know, I'm just gonna go pick up trash because I don't want thrills anymore. I'm just gonna pick up, I'm just gonna make my community cleaner. Uh but inside yourself, you must see that this too is the thrill. If it is, I'm not saying it is. If you can say, ah, but I will be seen picking up trash, and that will give me a very good feeling. And I can mask this thrill to reason by saying, Oh, I'm just picking up trash. I'm doing a beautiful, reasonable thing. But no, deep within yourself, you know that this is also just thrill seeking. And so that's when you have to say, enough. I will not allow this, I will not pick up trash then. Even though that would genuinely be the right thing to do, and it would be a beautiful thing to do for my community and myself and my environment, I will not do it because there's thrill in it. There's the drug hidden in it, and I will not, under no circumstances, will administer it anymore. And that only you can know, because everything can be done for thrill seeking. Charity people do for thrill seeking, but charity also people do for no thrill seeking and all, just because it's the right thing to do. So, how can we tell the difference between the thrill seeker and charity and between the rightful person? We cannot. Only they themselves know this. Only they themselves know as they're giving the donation. Ooh, I'm getting I'm getting a high from this. I am so, I have never given this much money. This is so thrilling. Or they they don't even anonymous, right? Sometimes they just mail the money to the place and you don't even know who it is. So only we can know who we are. Only we can know the anonymous donor. And only we can know the thrill seeker. And this is up to you now. This is a choice. You can do this in your life. You you wake up and you say, What shall I do? What's for breakfast? The thrilling thing? Opening up the phone and looking at emails and uh whatever. Is that what we're gonna do? Or are we gonna do anything but that because it's thrill sticking? It's a moment-by-moment choice. And the emotions will come in, the resistance will come in. I'm not saying it will, I shouldn't say that. That's another narrative, that's just another thought. For some people it does, for some people it doesn't. I'm just saying, in case that thought's coming and emotions coming and resistance comes in, telling you you can't do this, it's too difficult. That you only need to see. Because this is this happens for everyone. This happened for Jesus, this happened for Buddha, this happened for Socrates. The thoughts came in and they said, You are not good enough. You cannot do this, you cannot persevere in this, you cannot live without this. You are worthless, you are incompetent. The thoughts came for these people as well. The difference is they said, Come in and sit down. I will not escape you. Come in, stay as long as you want. You're welcome to it. Here's some tea. And then the thoughts and emotions that the fear and the judgment, they're sitting there and they say, This person is just invited us for tea. They're not afraid of us. And so we will do our best, we will do use all our scare tactics, we will use all our methods, and we'll see, maybe they will break. Once we've exhausted our methods, we're gonna leave, we're gonna go try someone else. So they might come to you, they might try you, and they might do things you've never seen them do before. But they cannot touch you, they never were able to. They're only good in seeming real. This is the one ability, one objective skill that fear has to seem real. It's very good at that. But it is not, and you will just have to either trust that, and and once you see it, of course, uh also just completely believe it. Uh, or you can keep running away from fear and never letting it touch you. Because if you just let it touch you, you would see it is not real, it has no substance, it's a projection. But I cannot just say that to you and you you feel it and you see it. You this needs to happen for you in your own realm when everything's when no one's there, when all the lights are out. Fear needs to come, and then you need to decide what you're gonna do, if you're gonna keep running away or if you're gonna uh see what this is all about. Because you can say, I'm an addict anyway. This addiction is going to death. There's no other end to this if I keep coming. So anything's better than death. And so let it come. Let's see what this is. Either it will kill me before the addiction, or I will actually realize that this is not real and there's peace and salvation behind it. But anything's better than this. So this is up to you. I just want to tell you that uh you need to watch yourself, you need to be aware of yourself, you need to uh every single thing that you know deep down, even if it's just in some corner of your mind, that the little voice that says this is a thrill, you need to see that. And you need to then abstain from whatever it is that you know is a thrill. It might also be charity, it might also be logical, it might also be the caring thing to do, it might also help with your taxes, whatever it is, but if it is also a thrill, do not do it. And if you keep this up long enough, the thrills will just leave and they will try someone else. Okay, okay, and if you ever want to um share something with that or again ask, look, I I'm encountering this. Well, what do we think about this? Not out of a need, not out of a oh, if you don't help me with this, I cannot be helped. I will loop, I will fail. No, just as this is kinship. This is where kin come together and say, I'm experiencing this. What do you think about this? You know, I want your opinion on this, not I need your opinion, but I want it. You are kin, you know. Uh, we're all dealing with the same thing. So I'm wondering if you have a suggestion for this. Fine. That's beautiful. This is what this place is for. That's what we're open to discuss. And so, whenever you have something like that, uh, you are welcome. Everyone is welcome. Uh, come here and share these things and talk about these things so that they can be taken from you. Um, so I uh I appreciate uh your honesty and in coming here and and um exploring these things and trying to uh come off the addiction, or at least see that it is an addiction and that it is a choice. And that's a beautiful thing. That is everything. It is not just a beginning, a first step, a good try, a good beginning. No. This is everything because without this, nothing happens. And uh there is no such thing as you cannot do it, there is no such thing you are too weak, there's no such thing you are not uh smart enough, you don't have this degree, or you are not strong, or there's no such thing. These are all thoughts, these are all lies. Okay, you are a complete, full uh being, you are not lacking, you do not need others. This doesn't mean that it is not human nature to be with others. That's what we're doing right here, right now. But you are not diminished by the absence of anyone or anything. You are a full, complete being, as everyone is. Everyone. There's not a single being on this earth that is not a full and complete one, not a single one. You are certainly not the exception to this rule. There is no exception. So thank you, thank you. I hope you sit with this, I hope you explore this, I hope you listen to our other friends, such as Seneca and many others, and that you spend some time with them, that you read them, that you think with them, and that you distract yourself from distractions. Distract yourself from distractions. Every time there's a distraction coming in, say, I will go to one of my friends, I will read what they say, I will think about what they say, I will not stay with the distraction.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:37

Thank you, thank you. And um, I will move you back to the audience for now. And um thank you for uh being here. Thank you for doing this, thank you for opening yourself up. This is vulnerability, but actually, in vulnerability there is strength because it takes strength to be vulnerable. It is easy to be strong, it is easy to be not vulnerable. That's not strength. Strength is to be strong enough to be vulnerable. That's what takes strength. And uh that's what everyone's doing here. And this is kinship, this is what we're here for. And this once again, if we're still looking for accomplishments, this has been accomplished as we do here every day, every time. And um this is the most precious uh in the truest sense and most amazing thing that is in human experience, in my little opinion. And it is not thrilling, and it does not take admission. You do not need to buy tickets for this, this is not exclusive. This is a beautiful thing that is open to us and sustainable and stable and there at all times. It's the bedrock of humanity, it's the bedrock of reason, it is always there. And so thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. Uh, once again a reminder this is our uh last kinship before we move to a uh bi-weekly, uh fortnightly schedule. So from now on, kinship is every two weeks. And on the weeks that there is no kinship, there is another group meeting. This group meeting will not be recorded, it will be for uh fewer people. There will be uh about maximum 10 people uh I will see in attendance, and it's more intensive. I know what we do here is quite intensive already, but uh this is where we communicate and we bring things to the table and we speak with full honesty. We are not at all giving any thought, oh, this is recorded, oh, thousands of other people will listen to this. No, it's just us, and we're we're not prioritizing feelings, we're not prioritizing comfort, we are prioritizing truth in these. And of course, anyone is welcome, and we speak with complete honesty, and we do not let go of the thing, and we will arrive at truth, and um, that is the purpose of those other meetings, which will happen every week when there is no kinship. And so I invite you all to that as well here in the events section of the Discord or in the description below if you're listening to this as a video or podcast. There will be a link to these meetings, and everyone is welcome. As long as you are exploring something, as long as you are in search of truth, as long as you have this intention, you are not only welcome, you are invited. We ask for you.