How To Handle Big Transitions: Understanding Child Behavior With Sarah Wilburn BCBA

The changing seasons, breaks, and travel can throw off any routine, leading to stress for us and big emotions for our kids.

We welcomed back the incredible BCBA Sarah Wilburn to share her professional and personal strategies for managing child behavior during any major shift in routine. Sarah unpacks the foundational reason behind most meltdowns: the simple loss of predictability.

In this powerful, insightful episode, Sarah shares her wisdom on:

• The crucial role of predictability in a child’s emotional regulation (and why removing it causes dysregulation).
• How to communicate expectations clearly to prepare your children for travel, new environments, and family gatherings.
• Managing the inevitable transition from long breaks back to school.
• The simple language and strategies you can use to minimize meltdowns during any big change in routine.

If you have ever felt defeated by a sudden meltdown during a family trip or a long weekend, this episode is packed with tools and grace to help you navigate transitions with flexibility and confidence.

Social Media: @sarahknowsbehavior
Email: sarah@bridgingbehaviors.com

Reach out to Sarah if you have specific transition questions!

Follow Us on Instagram: @alexandria.and.leesha
Stay up to date by joining our Newsletter

Transcript

0:42

Hello and welcome back. Today we have Sarah Wilburn back again for our uh second episode with her. And we are really excited because today we are going to talk about transitions with the holiday time coming up or really transitions for any season of life. She's going to give us all of the tips on how to handle that and child behavior. So Sarah, can you just remind our audience who you are and what you do? I sure can. Hey guys, I'm Sarah Wilburn. I'm a board certified behavior analyst. I'm also a licensed behavior analyst in the state of Texas. I'm currently actually working for Bernie ISD. I'm their behavior coordinator in BCBA, which is super fun. I have two kids. This is why I'm here because I have two boys and behavior is my jam. And even though I don't like it when my kids test anything that I know, I still like talking about it. for one, I just want to remind our audience that you have the two boys and you got into teaching parents specifically about behavior because when you became a mom, I think you said mostly to your second though, right? That it really just like was crazy for you and it just tested all the things that you knew and how you applied them. And so you wanted to take what you had learned and teach parents. how to approach it in a better, more flexible way. Yes, exactly. I kind of had the mindset prior to having kids that behavior was really something that um kids with developmental disabilities, that's kind of where the focus was. That's what my certification is, it's an autism. um And so it took me having my own kids, specifically my second born, who I love, um but he is stubborn and independent and tested everything that I thought I knew about behavior. So yes, that's when I pivoted into. coaching parents because I realized if I'm struggling and I'm technically an expert in behavior, then there are surely other parents who are like, what do I do about this? um And so offering that resource to parents where you don't just, it's not just a child that has a developmental disability that needs any sort of guidance. is literally any kid, because behavior is behavior no matter who you are. So yes, that is exactly why I pivoted, because my sweet, sweet little guy. you Yeah. And I really think that that you having that personal uh viewpoint and like how you went through it on your own too is why listening to your advice is so real and so relatable as a mom. Like we went to your um workshop, I always like blink on the word. um And the advice you gave was just so like, my gosh, that is very... easy to apply to my life or very easy for me to try and then like adapt into our lifestyle. I just feel like your advice is very real and functional. I appreciate you saying that. And I want it to be perceived that way because as parents, not only are we raising kids, but we have jobs or we have households to run, or we have 100 billion other things on our checklist. So when you're getting advice from someone on how to handle something, if it's complex, if it's too many steps, if it's unattainable, then you're not going to do it. And then our lives don't get easier. we don't streamline things as easy. So having lived it, I think it's easy for me to say like, Here's what worked. And it's not cookie cutter, right? Like it's not everything that worked for me is gonna work for you, but we can try it at least and, you know, tailor it and change it however we need to. eh But yeah, I don't want to make anyone's life any more difficult. My goal is to make your life easier and giving you baby steps and simple things to do that you can try. So I'm glad it's, I'm glad you guys think that. yeah, absolutely. Because people aren't going to do things if it's too hard or it's too hard to remember to do those things. Yeah, this is going to be a good one. So can you break down maybe the definition of what a transition is between a parent or a kid or the schedule? Yes, and it's going to be, I guess, kind of a generalization and then we can talk into a little bit more specifics, but a transition specifically is like when we go from one routine to another or one routine to no routine. So for the context of this talk, it's probably going to be mostly like going from being at school to going home for a Thanksgiving holiday, Christmas holiday, and then back to school. So that's multiple transitions. school, home, school, and then in three weeks we have another holiday. So it's, you know, it's a lot of them stacked up one after another. And so it doesn't have to be from school to home. It can be m going from living with mom to living with grandma, or it can, you know, there's all sorts of different ways that we have transitions in our kids' lives, but specifically for what we'll talk about today, because holidays are coming up and it's relevant. That's really what we'll kind of focus on today. But it can look many different ways. Yeah. So can you explain why structure or predictability help our kids stay a little more anchored or a little less uh explosive in their emotions maybe? Yes, we do see some big emotions when our predictability is gone. So when we have predictable routines or we're in our same comfort environment, we don't have to guess about what's coming next. So we can stay regulated. I don't have to be concerned about what my schedule is going to be or what, who I'm going to be interacting with or what my bedtime is going to be. It's predictable. I don't have to stress. I can regulate myself. We come up to big transitions and all that just goes out the door the routines the environments the expectations the bedtimes the food we're eating like the people we're seeing and so that's that's where we see those big kind of dysregulated emotions because I don't know what I don't I can't as a child predict what's going to happen next and as adults you know we can zoom out we can see the full picture we know Hey, this is a temporary break. only out of town on vacation for a couple of days and then we'll be back. But as a kid, it's like, when does this end? This just came out of nowhere. I don't know what to do. How long does it last? And there's a lot of unanswered questions. That's where we see the big emotions and the big kind of dysregulation. Right. Yeah, I find like for my kids, if we have like a break in our general routine or like go on vacation and then come back, they have like a three day buffering time that they need to like kind of like get back in like, okay, we're back to our normal. I'm safe, I'm. I can start doing what I was doing and like getting back into it and then like that three-day period like they sleep less They are very emotional They're like either eating a ton or not very much like it just messes with all of them oh No, I mean, that's a great observation that you've noticed because I think some parents don't see that the cause and the effect are related. So we went out of town for three days. Hey, why aren't they eating as much? But you've, you've recognized and you notice like, we know that we're going to have this buffering. I like that too. Buffering period where we're going to get back to regulated, but we have to like work on getting there real quick. Right? Yeah, practice getting back into it. I think that a lot of parents um that comes up with divorced households and coming from one house to the other and the kids settling back down when they get back to that parent and just having their emotions switch because households are so different from one dad's house to mom's house or grandma's house to... just seeing the personality of their, who their safe person is, like they're gonna be different, yeah. So yeah, definitely. I think that you'll have lots of tips for us to kind of handle all these different uh things that come up with families. This is gonna be, you're gonna give me a lot of good tips because we travel for the holidays and I'm already like, okay, that does make a lot of sense. What can I do to fix that? Well, I can't give you like, you know, one size fits all. This will definitely help everybody, but we can certainly talk about some ways to be proactive and then, you know, in the moment things that come up, we can see what we can offer. for parents, like before we jump straight into like scenarios and ideas and thoughts and stuff, uh what would you say the one thing for your parents to take away? Like while yes, transitions are hard and there are things you can do to help, like what as a parent mindset, like what should we in the moment be thinking if our child is struggling and we're like, we did all the things, why are they not happy? Um, I think one of the most important things to remember is that they're and developmentally their brains are still doing all kinds of work. And so even though we've done XYZ set these expectations, put all this beautiful stuff together for them to accept it, they're still going to be thrown off. Change is stressful even when it's fun. So it, it doesn't matter if we, it may not matter if we set all of the environment as much as we can ahead of time. there's still going to be dysregulation in their kids and they can't, it's hard to communicate their needs in that situation, especially when they're stressed. So number one thing to remember is their kids and we did our best. They're still kids. So just keeping that in mind. So let's start with kind of the basics of transitions. Why is this so hard for kids? because we lose our predictability, we lose the consistency. And if we're not able to, as parents or the adults in the situation, em provide any of that clarity, then I'm going to dysregulate because I don't know what's gonna be happening next. em even though a holiday transition, like that's fun, right? We're gonna have Christmas, Santa's gonna come, we're gonna do fireworks at New Year, like this is... fun transition, but it's still a break in our regular routine and our regular environment. Even if you're not have, if you don't have a kid that's in school, say you're homeschooling, your routine is still going to change. It's not going to be as drastic, but it is still going to be different. Um, so yeah, we just, we, all of the expectations shift and our job as parents is to make sure that when we know those expectations are shifting, that we're sharing them. with our kids as much as possible because yes, there are things that we're not going to be able to predict, but you you guys know you're traveling. You're going out of town for Thanksgiving. Like you have all the opportunity in the world for the prep for that. That doesn't mean you're going to squash all of the dysregulations or meltdowns, but you'll at least have a good head start for that. Right. Right. How would you say this dysregulation and struggling with transitions, how does that look for the different age groups? Like for maybe not so much a baby, though I do think they have it too, but usually that's just crying and them needing more cuddling, but more like a toddler, a child age, the tween, teenager ages, what are the signs to start recognizing for parents so that they can kind of be like, oh, I see this is happening? and so they can kind of switch their mindset. Right. So you hit the nail on the head, even though we're not talking baby babies, but even toddlers or elementary age kids, like tantrums, crying, trouble shifting from one thing to the next thing. Like those are going to be some pretty key indicators. Um, elementary kids, maybe like mid elementary, maybe more irritable arguing. I have a nine year old right now, so I'm speaking from experience. I'm saying, I don't want to do that. That's boring. Like it's. There yeah, there's definitely some sass right like we were experiencing the sass and so we'll probably see an escalated sass During that time like this is boring. I don't want to do that Why do we have to and just kind of questioning the things that we're doing your tweens and teens? Supreme sass But you might see some withdrawal Delilah's already so sassy too. I was waiting to see how you were gonna describe this age range because I was like, sassy at nine? I feel like my 12 year old is far past that. Yes, well, and I'm like my nine year old is sassy. He's a boy and he is like giving me the dude and I'm like what's gonna happen in the next four years with you? Like how am I gonna do this? eh Anyway, so but your teens and tweens you might see some withdrawal. You'll definitely see some attitude. They might. be seeking more time alone or trying to spend more time like maybe on screens if they have a tablet or if they have their own phone, you'll see them kind of withdrawing like that. The common thread though is that when the structure for all ages, when the structure drops, the regulation gets harder. And so they're regulating in their own kind of developmentally appropriate ways that look different in each age group. That was a really good question. I'm really glad that you guys put that on there. ah Cause it is going to look different, but it is, it's, I think for the most part if you know your kids it's going to be pretty obvious. um The shutdown or withdrawal might not be as in your face, right? But if we notice like, we haven't seen her in a couple hours, I wonder where she's at. That's probably a way of communicating like, I don't really love what's happening or I'm a little bit dysregulated. Okay, yeah, I think those are great things to keep an eye out as a parent or even like a grandparent or an aunt because I know some families like their kids travel to like a grandparent's house for summer or winter break or whatever. So that could be good information for them to know too to keep an eye out for. Yeah, for any changes that anything that's unusual out of the norm, like, yes, my nine year old is already sassy. But if I see that kind of escalate, I'm like, all right, I know that you're just like really unsure about what's happening. And then my job is then to, to figure out what he's communicating, what that need is, and then to meet him where he's at, because I am the one that's making all the plans. Right. So some kids struggle a lot more with being dysregulated faster. Would you say that that is a developmental stage thing or like an individual kid thing? I'm gonna go individual kid thing. also think like circumstantially. So how we react as parents to uncertainty or dysregulation is oftentimes how our kids are gonna mimic and react. So if you have a parent or if you are as a parent, like if there's a change that you're not prepared for and you kind of fly off the handle, then that's gonna be a very easy thing for your kid to do because they're witnessing this reaction. So, you know, not like breaking generational. cycles or anything like that, but just being aware, like, hey, if I'm going to have a big reaction to a small change in my schedule, I'm setting my child up to probably also react similarly, because that's how they're seeing me cope with it. And that's not necessarily, yeah. Okay. Yeah. stage or even with adults maybe, I know you don't so much deal with adults, that the getting off routine is just naturally easier because of the developmental stage? think that's a, that's also a personality thing, right? So I don't know that it's, um, I mean, there's, definitely have friends, you know, go with the flow, like, yeah, I don't really care. But I think as parents, that's a hard, yeah, we'll just do whatever. Because like there's so many factors and variables involved if there's a change or if there's a disruption. And so I think it's possible, yes, to, to be a little bit more easygoing, but I think again, as parents, we just have to to balance and juggle so many different aspects of everything, especially as moms, because we kind of carry the invisible burden of all of it. um I don't think I could see myself being like, oh, that just got canceled and we're not doing that anymore. Okay, no problem. know, like it's, I wish I could be as cool as that, but I think that there's definitely going to be some stress because like, okay, then what's the backup plan or whatever it is, you know? So developmentally, yes, but also like the factors that are involved. change it. we're stage in life what's going on stuff like that Yeah, that makes sense because I feel like I was pretty chill for the most part pre motherhood I mean chill but also like I liked routine but it didn't matter if things changed really but then as a mother like if something changes especially if I like told my kid especially my oldest that this was gonna happen or we were gonna go do this or Then I'm involving them in that and so when the plans change, I'm like, oh my gosh this is gonna be hard for her, for me, what are we gonna do, how can I make up for whatever's happened or you know, because you're tying not just yourself in but all these little human beings into it as well. All those variables that we just have to then, okay, how do we remedy or what do we do next or how do we change XYZ to make it work? And there's just a lot of factors that go into any change. we, again, we can zoom out as adults. we can perspective taking is easy for us because we have developmentally reached that stage. But for our kids, it's a lot harder. Like mom said, we can't do this. Oh, the world is over. And it's like, whoa. So we're going to come up with this, you know, like it's just, it's a lot different developmentally for us than our kids. yes. brains for sure. So switching over to the emotional side of it in the transitions, some people would probably perceive these behaviors of dysregulation because the routine change as maybe bad behavior or behavior that was not wanted. um How can we kind of rewire to not disciplining for or correcting that behavior, but making that a connection moment? Yes. So I think there's a mindset of like, my kid's acting out. So they must be being bad for a reason. But if we know it's in a time where we're having a big transition coming up, and I'm not just talking like it's already happened, but we know Thanksgiving is next week. You know, or we know Christmas is in a week and a half or whatever. And we start to see some dysregulation. I actually saw this with Mac, my oldest, um, going into first grade. Like school had not started yet and we saw this really heightened emotion and he was acting out and he doesn't, he does not do that. He's my angel child. He's my first sport. Um, and it was, it took me some time to figure out like, okay, there's, there's obviously something else. There's another factor here. And it was that he was afraid that he wasn't going to be in class with any of his friends, but he was already thinking that a few weeks ahead of time. And I just thought, why is he, he's crying about everything. He's throwing tantrums. That's not who he is. And so just. changing the mindset from like, he's acting out to be bad to his behavior is communicating something to me. It's communicating a need. It is communicating em that he's unsettled, that he's dysregulated, and he's not old enough to explain that to me. And I need to, as the parent, investigate what that could be. And that's just asking as simple as asking leading questions. Hey, what are you looking forward to about? Christmas, are you worried about anything? And it could be like, what if Santa doesn't bring me anything? And we see dysregulation for a what if scenario that we never would have thought of because we are Santa. you know, it's, we can't be in our kids' minds, but having that connection point where it's like, I know that there's something wrong. And my six-year-old may not be able to verbally explain that to me, but if I can ask leading questions. and maybe get a conversation going, I might be able to get to the bottom of it. Now that's not a 100 % guarantee, like gonna work every time, but it's something that you should definitely try or at least assess what's happening. Okay, we're going to aunt Mildred's house. That place smells funky. He doesn't like giving her hugs. So how do we set him up for success to go there? You know, like those, those are things that again, perspective taking, we can look at and try to see if that's what, you know, might be the case. But behavior is communication. They're trying to tell us something. It is not that I'm saying your child will not act out just to act out during these times. Like it's still possible. They're still kids. But if we see it and it's heightened and it's unusual, it's probably because we have this big transition or this new environment or new people or, you know, dysregulated, not normal schedule that, that we are all going to go through for these holidays. Mm-hmm, for sure. Well, I feel like you've already answered this a little bit with a different question, but it's gonna be different question, but I feel like the answer is gonna be similar. So what should we keep in mind when our patient runs out? Because we all know it will. I mean, especially when it's holiday season, we're all maxed out from trying to make the magic be alive and trying to just have everybody have a good time and meals and guests and prepping and all that stuff. What happens when we're the dysregulated one? and we're trying to help our dysregulated child as well. Super fun time for us, isn't it? em So I have some strategies for parents for us to be proactive, but specifically for this situation, if we are trying to em deescalate an escalated child or regulate a dysregulated child and we are in the same state as them, that is not going to be super successful. Like we are just going to have a very difficult time doing that. And so one, Taking that perspective, hey, it's temporary, hey, they're a kid, they cannot do this. And then giving yourself permission for a timeout. I think we might have talked about this in the other episode. Mom timeouts are real. Walk away, take a deep breath, go watch 20 minutes of Love is Blind or whatever you wanna do that is going to bring you down where you can have a conversation with your kid. So that doesn't mean like. Hey, everything's fixed in this transition that we're all dysregulated on is totally better, but at least I can have a conversation. I can redirect. I can be providing whatever it is that need is, is for this, for my kid. Do they need a hug? Do you need some, you know, time alone? you, whatever it is, like I can, I can suss it out a little bit better if my mind, yes, if my mind is clear, if I've had a mommy time out and I'm able to come back in like, all right, buddy, what do you need? Because ultimately we know this, like the needs of our kids are going to come before our needs. And that is just what, that is what we signed up for when we became moms. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least give ourselves a little bit of time to regulate. And that's actually one of the strategies that I recommend over these breaks is like set aside 10 minutes for you every day. over the holidays, even if you're at your grandma's house or your parents' house or wherever you are. Like you have got to have some time where you are not managing everything and everyone else's emotions. And it doesn't matter what your 10 minutes looks like. Like I said, love is blind. You could do some stretches. You could do some meditate, whatever. You could scream into the void. mean, whatever it is that you need to do to like regulate yourself, but give it, give yourself that, that time because we know what the holidays look like. And if we're hosting. or if we're prepping a party or we're doing like, we gonna be crazy. That's what is going to happen. I found for me, regarding mommy timeouts, for one, I've used this actually a couple times this last like two weeks because we've just been so busy. So my family has just been in mayhem for like the last couple of weeks. uh And so I've been maxed out and used mommy timeouts. But a tool I have given myself with the mommy timeouts is giving my husband permission to call me out and be like, you need to go have a timeout. um Because sometimes I like yeah, I feel overwhelmed, but I'm not recognizing that I'm I'm the one Escalating the situation so for him to step in if he sees it and be like hey Go take a chill for a second and not getting mad at him So I'm giving him permission and I'm also telling him I'm not gonna get mad at him because I'm gonna recognize that if he's stepping in Then it like I really need it Yeah, no, I love that because sometimes we can see our kids are dysregulated, but we don't see it in ourselves as easily. Cause like, no, I've got this. I've totally got it. And you're like neurotic, right? Like it's not, you don't got it. Um, I I would love for my husband to prompt me to go take a chill. Like sometimes I just need to be told to walk away from it. And I think knowing, you know, what I know I'm, I'm okay at remembering that I need to, and sometimes I do it even if I'm not totally dysregulated, but I just. I just can't, I just can't do it anymore. Yes. Pretty dysregulated. I, yes, that's exactly, I'm being very proactive. Um, but I think that's super, I think that's really healthy that you can do that because on the flip side, there are going to be times when he's probably dysregulated or starting to us that you're like, yo bro, like I got it. Just go take a walk or whatever you need to do. And like, that helps deescalate quicker for everyone, even if you're stepping away. Mm-hmm. That took some practice, too, though. So, like, just for anyone listening, like, that's not something that was able to just start happening, because, of course, the first few times, like, I did it to him or he did it to me, I was like, stay out of it, basically. So it took some practice. I could just imagine like any woman being in the Luteal phase and just being like, did you seriously just say that to me? Like, butt out? Yeah, it takes practice. Yeah, yeah. To remind myself, like I told him to do that. He's coming from a place of love for our kids and for me uh and for his sanity too. Cause as he's listening to us, like get there. So definitely some practice, but after a few times of it, we got there and it's actually really helpful for both of us. Well, I'm glad. I love that. I love that for you guys. How can parents set expectations around these um transitions, whether they're traveling or just being home for the holiday or visiting other people's houses or whatnot? Great question and this can go any which way because those are you you're you're right. There's so many different scenarios that we're communicating with your kids What is going to happen is so important if you can put it on a calendar if you can put it on m Even a visual schedule like whatever you can make so that your kids can see like on this day We're gonna be here and on this day. We're gonna be here And who's going to be there Cause I think that that's another big piece that, you know, like we do have weird family members. All of us probably have the one that you're like, yeah, uncle Bob or whoever, whoever it is. And, know, we, and we, we were on the, you know, this interesting road where it's like, we want our kids to be polite, but we also want to respect physical boundaries with people. And so I, and that's one thing that I've worked with several parents on is like, I hate my kids don't want to. Hug this person. Well, don't make them. That's their choice. Do you want to give a hug or a high five? Okay. Do you want to wave from here? Like we don't have to make our kids embrace creepy uncle Bob or smelly aunt Mildred. Like we don't have to, like, I know that that's something that we grew up thinking like that's just the polite thing to do, but in preparation for like, Hey, we're going to be here and this person's going to be here, but you just have to wave or you don't have to talk to them. Like give our kids permission to like figure out how they want to set those boundaries. Right. I feel like that's a big trigger for some of the kids. And then also like what food is going to be there? Because we probably have picky eaters, right? Like Thanksgiving, it's normally going to be turkey and green beans and hey, and you get to pick what you want to eat that day. I'm not going to make you eat anything on that, you know, like you don't want to eat the sweet potato salad. You don't have to. Salad. like even if you don't have a picky eater on big holidays transitions like this, they're going to act like one because like my kids aren't really picky eaters, but even we go have family dinner and they will only eat like their their safe foods, basically things that they're very familiar with or they think are very tasty. Even though this is like we're just going to Mimi's house for a family dinner, which we do this at least a couple of times a month, usually. um And they are very familiar with everybody that's there They're still gonna not eat like they regularly do because it's outside of their normal routine There you have other people around that they don't have around every single dinner So I do think that's an important thing to keep in mind too is that even if your kids not a picky eater sometimes them knowing the foods or Being you being aware that it's okay if they don't eat it Yeah, like we're not gonna force it. I mean, that's how I feel about it. I know there are some people that like, I made this and you're gonna eat it. And it's like, well, good luck with that, because it's not gonna work very well for you. Not gonna happen. uh As far as travel goes, if you're gonna be flying in an airplane, that's important to know. Hey, what is it like at the airport? Remember the last time we flew, this is what we brought. Hey, do you wanna bring your special stuffy? Giving them some choice as far as what they can bring what kind of snacks we're have who do you want to sit by? uh That way there's a little bit more buy-in especially if it's an unfamiliar like you've never done it before situation if you're driving and You're driving like 13 hours or whatever. It might be you still wouldn't even leave the state of Texas uh Then you know, hey, we're gonna be on the road for this long we're gonna stop at a gas station we'll get some fun snacks like All the prep that we can give because even though again, this is like kind of fun and we get to eat junk food and it's like still way outside of our routine. And if we're going somewhere we've never been before, then that's even more uncertainty. Like, Hey, when we get to their house, they have a dog, her name is Sophie. And I think, you know, any kind of information that we can provide, it should take us about three hours to get there. And when we get there, you can take a nap or you can go rest. And it's not like, Hey, let's throw you into family festivities and. yard games and whatever, know, like, let's have some regulation time where we're going. Um, and as we're planning this as parents, like, let's be realistic about what our kids can do. Like if my, you know, sister calls and she's like, Hey, we're going to do a three hour dinner at this fancy restaurant. I'm going to be like, well, have fun with that. Like we'll come for an hour and then we're going to bounce because I know that my kids are not going to tolerate that for that long. You know what I mean? Like we are, we. As parents in holiday times when there's expectations and there's traditions and there's, well, we've always done it this way. Like we can say no, we can say that's not going to work for our family this time. We don't have to do it just because it's how it's always been done or because my sister asks, like, I'm going to consider what my family's needs are first. And then I'm going to make sure that I'm not going to set my kids up for even more dysregulation or escalation because I'm saying yes to something that's not going to be appropriate for them to be at. And I think that we also have a mindset. our generation, the generation right before us of like, well, this is how it's always been done. This is our family tradition and it doesn't have to be like, you can, yeah, it's okay to make sure that you're putting your family's needs before whatever you did 20 years ago before you had kids. So I have a quick follow up for kind of like what you were talking about, like giving people, giving your kids details, like when you're going somewhere. But what about when you're bringing someone into your home? uh So like for me, my mom, which she visits very often, but this is a bit of a different circumstance, uh I'm gonna be flying out of state and driving her back down with all her dogs. So we're gonna be adding at least two more of her dogs to my household that has already got. Animals. don't need to talk about that. Anyways, uh how can we better prepare our kids for having extended stay guests that maybe are out of the norm or people coming in and out of the house for parties or for festivities or something like that? Would you say that explaining it is the same kind of tools or would you adapt to them? I would say similar, right? Like, hey, grandma's gonna be here, she's gonna stay for four nights, she's gonna stay in this bedroom, she's bringing the two dogs, so it might be a little bit loud, and that's okay, we'll get used to it. I would also make sure that your kids know, when you feel overwhelmed or overstimulated, if you just ask, you can go to your room, and you can go read a book, or you can go do a puzzle, or you you wanna go on a walk, let's go on a walk, and that way they know that they can come to you and say, hey, I need a break from this or hey, this is a little much for me and go to their safe place. oftentimes, I probably would even make my kids ask to go to their room because that's their room and their space. But if you want to go on a walk, if you want to go outside and sit for a little bit, if you want to, hey, mom, can we sneak out and go get ice cream, whatever, just something to offer them where they know that they have a place for regulation, even though we're not calling it that because That's not what we need to talk about with our kids, but there's a safe place for you to be here even when you're overwhelmed, even when we have people here. you know, grandma's going to wake up at six. You don't have to wake up at six. You get to sleep in. We're not going to change your schedule just because she's here and making sure that they know that, yes, the environment is going to be different. There's going to be a new person, but the routine that we'll have for you is what we want for you. And we're not going to change it just because grandma's here. Okay, yeah, I think that's great advice, because I know I'm not going to be the only person that has family coming into town for the holidays especially, or be hosting. And I have three kids. And I just am picturing the mayhem. It'll be fun, but it will be a lot too. Well, it'll be an adjustment. And then, you know, when grandma leaves, then we have to like, kind of get back on our normal, right, buffer period. Um, and that's the same for, you know, like the holiday is over. If you're sending your kids back to school. Well, if we've had a late bedtime all week, because it's, you know, holiday week and we're doing whatever, like I'm going to start putting my kids back to bed at the normal time on Saturday night and Sunday night, because I want them to kind of. get back into a routine. I'm not going to wake them up at six because I'm not cruel, but I, you know, we'll, we'll, no, thank you. Um, but whatever parts of the routine that we can practice and get kind of back used to like, Hey, Sunday night, don't forget, let's do our water bottles. Let's pack our lunches like tomorrow's back to school. Now, like Jake, my youngest, he takes, he has a three day buffer period. If we have any sort of break, even if it's just a three day weekend, going back to school on Monday is hard for him. Like he's just, he ain't gonna do the work. I'm really good friends with his teacher. So she will text me and be like, Hey, he's having, and I'm like, I, we expect this, like he will get back on track. And sure enough by like Wednesday, he's okay. He's good to go. But knowing that it's going to take him a few days and having that conversation with his teacher, because I know that's his buffer period, right? Like I know he's going to need a few days to get his life back together. And I mean, longer than that usually, but, um, just, yeah, just the prep, all the prep that we can give to all the parties that are involved. Our kids, especially if you know your kid's teacher and you're like, Hey, we're just coming back from a vacation. We've been gone all week. I just want to let you know that they might be a little bit slow or tired or, and we'll talk to them and we'll encourage them to, to do what they need to do. But you might see this because you know, this is what we were doing. We were totally off our routines. Right. I think that's a great tip, especially if you can talk to the teacher too and they have school. That's really helpful. One of the things we have on here uh as a strategy is creating micro routines during breaks. So can you give us some examples of that, whether someone's staying home or if someone's traveling? Because obviously when you're traveling, you're not home with your room and your stuff. That one's a little trickier. Being at home, it's a lot easier to say like, okay, we're to try to have lunch at the same time every day or the same kind of foods that we would normally eat, keeping things similar. We're going to do 20 minutes of reading before bed, like things that we normally would do, we can keep in mostly. Again, I'm not going to wake my kids up at six and be like, let's pretend we're at school. Like I'm not. No. But whatever we can put in, like, we're gonna, you know, all week long, we're gonna play outside, we're gonna watch a movie together, we're gonna read, whatever the little things that we can keep going. Now, when you're traveling, it really is just gonna depend on where you are. If you're staying in hotel, that's really gonna throw you off. If you're staying at someone's house, you may be able to be more, okay, here's our reading time, here's, we're gonna have, you know, can go to the grocery store and you can stock up a fridge and, you know, have familiar foods or whatever. um It's really gonna depend on kind of where. You wind up staying because that'll affect what you have access to. And it may be that your whole routine is shot and that's okay. Like that's going to happen. I mean, honestly, like that is, that is the possibility. If we were staying in a hotel for a week and we were visiting all these sites and doing all these things, like I, there's probably not a lot of opportunity for me to have like anything that is consistent or regulated, which is fine. As long as I'm communicating that with the boys and saying like, if you need a break, if you want to rest, like let's. make sure that we get that in or even planning like go do something fun, take a break, go do something fun, go at lunch, take a break, whatever it might be. Um, it just, it depends on kind of where. Right. For routines that you can kind of hold onto through pretty much anywhere you go. For us, I find that if I hold onto our bedtime routine, since it's one that we can pretty much do anywhere, no matter where we are, ah it really helps my girls. Like, it really helps them get to bed easier. I mean, it might be later bedtime, possibly, or earlier, depending on where we are. um But as long as they're still getting a book read, they're still getting to sit with mom, they're still doing our brushing teeth routine, our brushing our hair out routine, they get into that bedtime mode so much quicker and then they have a good night's sleep and then we have a better day because of it. So I do highly suggest if you have a bedtime routine, try and hold on to that as your one thing when you travel. Yeah, absolutely. And bedtime. And I feel like that's a hard one because if we're traveling and you know, if we're in a different state and we have crossed, you know, the central mountain time or whatever to somewhere else, like the timing is going to be off anyway. And that's going to be, you're to spend, you know, half your vacation adjusting to that and then coming home and having to adjust back to whatever time zone you're in. so just keeping, being really mindful about even if it's like, It seems ridiculous how early you're going to bed. Like your kids are going to need that rest or else they're going to dysregulate even further. So I'm a stickler about bedtime. I try not to deviate unless it's like a very special occasion. But I know what happens in the morning when they didn't do their bedtime routine and they didn't go to bed at a normal time. And then it's chaos and easily triggered and just sensitive. And that's not normal. for them and it's all because like I let them stay up later. right now I'm still the one that decides what time they go to bed, right? They're not old enough to be like, I can go to bed when I want. Like, no, you live at my house. Not yet. And I like to go to bed early. So my time too. So just keeping that in mind when you're traveling, cause if you traveled through time zones, that's going to change what your bedtime looks like. And you need to try to keep it really as close to normal as possible, unless you're just a loosey goosey and don't have a regulated bedtime anyway. on you, do that. But if you try to keep it consistent, it'll benefit behavior the next day for sure. might make your life a little bit easier with all the different changes. Yes, absolutely. One thing we do when we travel is try to go to parks so they can get out that like physical energy. um So doing something, taking a break, going, taking them outside the house, going to find a park. That's something we enjoy doing anyway. So it makes it really easy when you're traveling to just like what city are we by? What's their city park? And like stop even we're on a road trip. We'll do that too. um We'll make our lunch stop somewhere where there's a park and they can go play for. 15, 30 minutes and get that energy out. Because I think that that's huge too. part of this, you're going to have kids that have different levels of dysregulation, how that shows up. So the high energy is one that we have. And my grandparents' house is very small. And so it's like, they drive everyone crazy really fast because there's so little space. So taking them out of it and going to do something, that's one of our routine pieces. I think that's actually helpful even if you aren't traveling but your routines changing at home. Like whenever my mom visits or literally anyone from Washington comes visits me, we up our outdoor outings significantly with my kids. They're doing bike rides, they're doing walks, they're doing trail hikes, they're going to parks because they get way more calm. They get to go be outside, breathe fresh air, run around in a freer setting. um And it just it helps a lot for us as well because we I have all three of my very high energy So so they get a little crazy if we're uh Yeah, no, that gross motor movement is so important for regulation too, especially in, if you're traveling or different setting on your routine exhausts, like that release of the big movement is great for regulation. Yeah. I also really love the piece that you were talking about before about giving them choices so that they can have some control. I feel like that's a huge piece and kids are feeling more regulated because they know that they have control over that piece. um I think that that's a good one. There's the safe foods, books. I mean, these are so simple things that could make such a huge difference in families' lives. Yeah. it's so easy. And it's it's something we don't think about, because when we're packing, it's like, okay, underwear and socks and whatever. And it's like, what about something that you want to bring? And now, Jake, I can just see it now. What do you want to bring? He's going to bring the teddy bear that is bigger than his body, because that is just what he is going to try to do. So obviously we're going put a little bit of boundary on that. Like you can pick something small that fits in your suitcase or something small that fits in your backpack or pick two books or... You know, your bracelet making kit. Yeah. But it's still like his choice. I'm just giving him some boundaries, right? Yeah, I do think that helps a lot. I did something similar when we traveled to Disney, which was a huge trip for my three girls, because it was their first time flying and going to the amusement park, like all of it, ah is I involved my two littles. I couldn't really involve them. They were too little still. But my oldest, she got to like pick out her dresses that she wanted to bring, the shoes she wanted to bring, what kind of snacks she had on the plane, stuff that was like she could have that control. And it really helped when we got there because it was like she had everything that she needed. She felt like she needed at least um and nothing was forgotten. So like she had the stuff she needed for sleep that I never would have thought she wanted to bring because she never sleeps with it. Just keeping you on your toes, mom. Yeah. No, and then she had some comfort items, right? Like things from home, my safe zone, I'm bringing them somewhere I've never been. And so I have one kind of thing tying me to where I'm most safe. Not just the people, like my family is safe and that's who I know, but now I have my own stuffy or my own book or, you know. Whatever she picked that she needed for that trip. Yeah, I think it's really helpful. mean, even down to the clothes, if your kid's old enough, because like my daughter can be indecisive with clothes. So if I packed for her, she'd be like, well, mom, these are my itchy pants. And I'd be like, why do we have these pants? Like, if they're itchy. So having her involved in that and whatever she is going to feel most comfortable wearing was really helpful as well, because we had long days at the park and it would have been awful. I mean. no itchy pants. I still have to, I still have those pants. I need to go pull those out. Yeah. Sarah, what do you say about you holding your boundaries and getting into like a argument with your kids? So say we're traveling, we go to the hotel and they have breakfast there and there's Froot Loops and you'll play high sugar yogurt. And we're like, hey, let's make a better choice. Like, where do you draw the line of like they get to have something fun, but you also need to kind of have some control over what they're putting in their bodies? Yes. So when you're traveling, that's really hard because the options are not going to be up to you, right? Like you're not setting them out. I would probably preface it. If you know, you're going to be somewhere that is not going to have, like, they do, if you know, it's going to be like a fruit loop slash yogurt slash watery scrambled eggs or whatever, you know, they have at the buffets these days. I would say before you go down and get it, I'd like, all right, you get one choice and I get one choice, but you have to eat my choice too. So. Like just set the boundary or if you go ahead and make a healthy choice, I don't need to make the choice for you. If you're going to choose a box of Froot Loops, you're also going to have an apple, a banana, a whatever, a yogurt, and just try to have the conversation before you get there, before you get into the area where you're like, well, now I've lost kind of control. We're in a public buffet and I don't want to sit and argue with them. And I would, my general rule of thumb, and you don't have to do this at all, but while we're traveling is because I already know the food choices are going to be out of my control. I'm going to let them go a little bit crazy. Like I, I'm lucky that the boys though, like I don't see a huge difference in behavior based on what they're eating. Like I know that there's a lot of correlations, but unless it's like straight Hawaiian punch, which we will never do. Um, then I'm to let them kind of make their own choices. But I, but I do think that having like, you can pick one, but I'm picking another thing that you also have to have. And just setting that as like the standard for where you're going or like, Hey, we're to look at this menu. Let me know what you think sounds good. And I'll let you know what I think you should also have. And then we can do both, but that gives them a little bit of power and control in an unfamiliar, uncertain environment. Plus you're getting them whatever nutrition you think that they need to get on top of whatever they choose. with my kids too, if we have that food thing, sometimes we'll do that choice thing, sometimes I'm like whatever. But I do find that when I'm kind of putting my foot down about a certain food for them, it helps to explain why. Why am I saying, no, let's maybe not eat that, or why am I saying let's eat this instead if I tell them I do this, my three year olds too, I don't know that they're understanding, but they're hearing me. They'll get it eventually but like hey I want you to eat this protein because it's gonna fuel your body for longer so that way you're not hungry in 10 minutes or Whatever explanation makes sense for your kid or why you're thinking that it will make sense for them uh My my six I keep calling her a five-year-old she's six now um She always is like, okay that makes sense mom half the time at least half And then you know, I like I said Yeah, and then I do let go, like she gets to eat her snacks as she wants and so I'm like, it's just, it's your primary meal, like you want it to like carry you through so you have energy to go run at the park. I get my mind to eat breakfast. He won't eat breakfast. And I'm like, but then you tell me you're starving at lunchtime. And I'm like, I can't help you. I'm not. You're right. Yeah. not fighting that battle anymore. You ought to be hungry. Be hungry. I love those tips. I think that that is really helpful, even if you are at your destination or at home, whatever. But you have cookies and cakes and pies and everything sitting around anyways, and that's all they want to eat. But just giving them kind of that guidance of like, you pick it, I pick it or, hey, I noticed you had one of those. Let's have a couple carrot sticks now or whatever it is. That's kind how I try to approach things to one thing when we are traveling. And I'm speaking a lot to traveling because that's what we do for part of those holidays. um Helping them realize that the choices that they're gonna make is gonna make them feel a certain way, because they'll see Froot Loops will say and be like, ooh, I want that. But then knowing that maybe they get car sick if they had milk with their cereal or like whatever that is, because that is a problem over here. So then I have to be like, okay, well, how do you want to feel when we still have six hours to drive or whatever that is? So I think that's a good idea. My kids also, I just want to say, we do let them have all the junk on the road trips, which is probably going to surprise some people is the way that we kind of talk about things sometimes and the way I live my life. But I always get them some kind of crazy snack or like candy to try. Because it's something to look forward to when you're driving for 14 hours. You have to have something to keep you like going. That's a long trip. We lived in Atlanta when I was little and we would make the trip home to Texas every Christmas. And I just remember when I got my first Discman and you couldn't let it bump on anything because it would stop. So I was holding it for like three hours just listening to the battery die. It's a long trip. That's a lot of time on the road. We've got it down to a science. The kids, they do really, really good, but having those uh couple of tips in your back pocket really, really help. do you have any other tips that we didn't talk about today that you could give to our parents? mainly just the prep, right? That's like the most important piece of all of this. If you know, you're going to be doing something different and out of schedule and routine, um, having those little bits that you can kind of schedule, but having a calendar where your kids can see like this day we're doing this. just, I mean, I know I already talked about that, but those to me are the most important pieces because it's as proactive as we can be when there's going to be changes and then being proactive and preparing to go. back to school is important because that's another change in routine. I think parents setting boundaries is really important and knowing what we should say no to and can say no to. m Setting aside time for you, like this is more of a recap, this is not anything new, but setting aside time for you to have a mini meltdown or whatever you need to do. um And it doesn't have to be the way it's always been. If it doesn't work for you, I think that that's just, think we have a mindset like, well, great. Grandma's always had her fancy crystal on the table. And I'm like, yeah, you want it broken? Like put it out in front of my kids. That'll be great. Also designating tasks. So, um, you talked about, like I told my husband to tell me when I need a break. That is great. But also like, I'm to tell my husband, I need you to do X, Y, Z, or if someone's, if I'm hosting and someone's like, what can I bring? I'm going to tell them to bring something like. I cannot do all of it. And I think we have the sense of pride like, no, I'm hosting all do I've got it covered and like, no, please do bring the punch or the green beans or whatever. Yes. Yes. Let them. And I think that there's just this stigma about like, no, I have to have this like picture perfect holiday. Like our lives are not Instagram all the time and that's okay. And you can have help and you can have a mess and it is going to still be memories that your kids are not going to be like, remember when mom didn't fold that napkin the right way? no, nobody's going to be, nobody's thinking that. So just be realistic and give yourself grace. Like it's probably not all going to go exactly the way that you planned it. And that's okay. Your kids are probably still going to have meltdowns, even though we've been planning and preparing and, know, giving them choices and doing all the things like there's still going to be dysregulation and we can't be in their little brains, but what we can do is give them grace, give ourselves grace. and try to meet their needs that they have during these big transitions. That wasn't anything new, I just, know, touching, highlighting kind of the more important parts, I would say. Yeah, I think this has been a great episode full of tips and tricks and insights for these upcoming holidays and transitions and future transitions and summer break and everything that are gonna be so helpful for not just me and Leisha, but also for other parents that are listening. So we're very excited to share all of your information. If you guys would like to, you could follow Sarah at, go ahead and share your socials and everything, Sarah. sarah with an H. um And then if you have any questions about this or you have a specific transition or whatever, like email me, sarah at bridgingbehaviors.com. um I'm happy to help you kind of walk through what might be helpful for you and your family. So it'll be fine, guys. It'll be great. It'll be fun for everyone. Yeah, we're all going to get through it. Thank you so much, Sarah. We loved having you back. And maybe we'll have you back again for another topic. to. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for having me.