With Grace Podcast
"With Grace " is an uplifting podcast where faith, family, and community come together in transformative conversations. It is a space of authentic stories and powerful insights. Whether facing life's joys or its most challenging moments, we can walk this journey together, embracing grace every step of the way.
With Grace Podcast
It changed me (miscarriage)
Let us know what you think of the show!
From childhood dreams of motherhood to the raw realities of miscarriage and infertility, Hope Watson joins me, Octavia Cormier, to share her moving story. Together, we uncover many women's silent struggles, shedding light on the resilience and grace needed to navigate profound loss.
Hope vulnerably discusses her journey with her husband, Kadero, as they confronted irregular cycles, fertility challenges, and the often private conversations that shaped their path to parenthood. She reflects on how God’s grace sustained her through heartbreak and healing, providing strength to endure and eventually find peace.
This episode is a heartfelt invitation to explore the complexities tied to miscarriage and the transformative power of grace in the midst of pain.
Check out links below:
https://www.threads.net/@hopebwatson?xmt=AQGzwkAf9D5AigAw3VKfJER7G0iz-kK5QKIoMn13W-s6DKA
https://www.threads.net/@everydaywithhk?xmt=AQGzwkAf9D5AigAw3VKfJER7G0iz-kK5QKIoMn13W-s6DKA
https://www.foreknownministries.org/
Hey there and welcome to With Grace, the soul nourishing podcast, where we will explore the profound intersections of spirituality, family and community life. I'm your host, octavia Cormier, inviting you to join me in this sanctuary of heartfelt stories and practical wisdom. Together, we'll navigate some of life's most sacred and challenging moments with grace. Thank you for being here. Welcome to With Grace. I'm your host, octavia Cormier, and today's episode is titled it Changed Me.
Speaker 1:I am a woman. I love being in community with other women and so, through different friendships and relationships, I've met so many that have had to suffer the devastating blow of a miscarriage, and sometimes even multiple miscarriages. So today we're going to dive into what is sometimes the unspoken pain and resilience of those that have walked through miscarriages. Today we have Hope Watson joining us and we're going to talk about the pain. We're going to talk about finding grace. We're going to talk about maybe feeling isolated, just the different things that a miscarriage can bring. Hope and I are actually getting to know one another.
Speaker 1:I follow her and her husband, kedaro, on Instagram, I hope just want to say I love the joy that you guys have. You have so much fun. My husband and I send y'all's videos, the reels, back and forth, because there's just so much joy and fun that you guys have. I also know that marriage is not all fun and games and it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of dedication, especially when there has been tragedy that has taken place. I love that you guys are. Your love is resilient, your love for God is good, and so I'm so glad to have you here today and for everyone listening. Our prayer today is that we can shed light on the emotional, the spiritual, the physical changes that a miscarriage can bring and hopefully lead you to finding grace and healing on your journey or as you journey with someone else Hope. Thank you so much for being with us today, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to be here For sure. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, let's start with a little bit of perspective. Absolutely, let's start with a little bit of perspective. Statistically speaking, there are about 10 to 20% of people that have miscarriages, and so it is very common. But just because it's common doesn't make it easy. There are millions and millions of women that walk this road every year, but a lot of times I think they walk it in silence. Yes, even as a pastor. When someone comes and they tell me I can feel so limited in, I mean, I'm sorry, I want to pray for you, not as good.
Speaker 1:You know I want to sit with you, I want to lament with you, I also want to give you hope for the future. But I have not myself experienced that, and so that can be a difficult thing of like, oh my gosh, do we talk about it? Do we not say anything? You can just feel kind of paralyzing, I think, for the person that is trying to help or trying to walk through miscarriage with someone, and so I would love for you to share your story with us, and even we can talk about the aftermath and all of that, but I would love to hear even just what was your dream of motherhood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, let's start there then, because I will say this I was always a woman's woman, like a girl's girl. I remember, even when I was like a child, I always had my dolls. I always wanted to be a mother. I remember watching it was a show on the Learning Channel, tlc. I think it was like Birth Story or something like that. I don't know, but I just loved the thought of giving life and I just love what motherhood could look like. My mom is an excellent role model of motherhood and I would always be like, oh my gosh, this just looks so cool and I just love what motherhood could look like. My mom is an excellent role model of motherhood and I would always be like, my gosh, this just looks so cool.
Speaker 2:So I've wanted it for a very long time and I think it was something that you know as you get older, you kind of hear those stories that it's not always easy. So there was moments where I realized it was going to be hard for me when I realized that, like my, my menstruals weren't regular and this was starting at like a younger age, and I was like, well, you know, you didn't think too much of it, but in the back of my mind it was like, okay, is this going to affect anything, especially the older that I got? And so it was one of those things that I was like I never thought about it until I thought about it and I was like my God, like am I going to struggle? And it was something that was always in the back of my mind but I never wanted to shine a spotlight on it. It wasn't until I feel like throughout me and Kid Arrow, my husband, us dating, you know, we we tried to abstain.
Speaker 2:You know there were moments that we slipped, but we never had the thought of we were always protected and we were always like let's just, you know, make sure nothing happens out of wedlock, and like doing all the checks and stuff like that. But once we got married, I was like, ok, now I feel in that moment, god is giving us permission, let's go ahead, start a family. So I was ready, when I tell you, I was ready at like year one to start having kids. But Kaderra was like wait, financially, I don't think we're ready, like we just got married, let's enjoy each other a little bit. And so there was like a full fledged Octavia, like there was a full fledged argument because I was like I'm ready to be a mom, like I just want to be a mom, like get me pregnant. Kaderra was like, yeah, we probably should have talked a little bit more about this before we got married.
Speaker 1:Can we just say that to hope, though, because we just think, oh, we're going to have babies and oh, we're going to get married, and it's like, no, we need to talk about, yes, do you want kids? Do I want kids? How long do we want to wait to have kids? And then, what does discipline look like? Because, you know, I was parented one way, you were parented a different way, and I think sometimes we don't think through that, let alone talk through it, and so, just hey, if you're thinking about getting married, I would say sit down and have the conversation around kids and be 100% honest.
Speaker 1:I have friends that weren't honest and then, once they got married, I have friends that weren't honest and then, once they got married, she didn't want kids. And I have other friends that they never expressed like, I want to wait five years or you know, whatever their ideas were around that, and so just the plug. Hey, have that conversation and don't be shy about it, Don't be timid, be real. And it doesn't mean that God can't change your heart and do miracles and all of that. But you got to. You got to start with a firm foundation and that's with honesty. Okay, Keep going.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so, um, so, about year, year two, um, we noticed we came to the conclusion like, well, we'll wait, but we're not going to like protect ourselves.
Speaker 2:So if it happens, it happens, it's about year two happened and we realized like we're really consistent with our practicing and like nothing is happening, and so I was like maybe I should just go to the doctor, get checked, see if I need help, you know, trying to get pregnant and things like that In which the doctor at that point I think that was year 2011,. The doctor was saying, yeah, you're going to need a little assistance with getting pregnant. Never told me why, which now, thinking back, I'm like why didn't I ask deeper questions? So we started kind of with the basic oral treatments, like trying to get me to ovulate, because that was one of the issues is that I wasn't ovulating on a regular, and so we started with just oral medication, tried to give that a shot. Nothing came from it. So fast forward to about 2015, I remember we moved to Wisconsin and we were like, okay, now it had been like three, four years that nothing has happened. So let's try to get a little bit more aggressive with things. So I went to found a new doctor. We got a little bit more aggressive with medication. We got a little bit more aggressive with like the frequency of how often we were like on medication and trying and we actually got pregnant in 2015.
Speaker 2:And it was one of those things where we were so excited because that was literally my first time seeing a positive pregnancy test and at that point it had been like five, six years since we had been trying. So I was like, oh my gosh, this is the first positive. We were scheduled to go home because Cadero was working in athletics at the time and so we were playing Maryland and so our family was going to drive up and we were like, well, this is the perfect opportunity just to surprise our family with this news. And I was like I'm nervous because I know that I'm very early, but it's still a positive and all that other stuff, so fast forward. We told our family, everybody was ecstatic. There was so many tears, there was so much joy. And then we flew home from the game and it was about a week or two later that I started to bleed and I was like, oh God, like what's going on? So you start doing the worst thing ever going to Google just seeing like what's normal, what's not normal.
Speaker 1:And so.
Speaker 2:I was like, well, let me just go ahead and call the doctor, call the doctor, set an appointment. And I remember going to the ultrasound tech and I remember her just being really quiet and I was like, okay, it shouldn't take this long, like what's what's happening? And she said I'm going to go get the doctor. And I was like you can't tell me anything. And she was like, professionally, no, I can't say anything. So at that point I'm like this can't be good, right? So the doctor comes in and she's like, yeah, things are not developing the way that we would hope for them to. So about 98%, hope for them too. So about 98%, you're going to miscarry this baby. And so I remember leaving, distraught At that point, kid Errol.
Speaker 2:His hours were super long, he worked in football and I called him when I left and I was like I know you're at work, but this is what's happening. And so I drove to his job and we sat out and we cried in the car and it was one of those things that was like I don't want to believe what the doctor's telling me. My faith is always. Yes, I know what the doctor says, but what does God say? You know?
Speaker 2:you have those moments, but it was my body was going through the, it was starting the process. So it's hard to fight with your faith when you see the physical happening. And so we just cried in those moments and I felt bad because I was like he's got to go back to work with tears and like all this stuff. But he didn't care and I had to take that burden off myself, that this was my husband, like this is what he's here for, right? Yeah, so fast forward a little bit more. So we, the doctor asked, she said, well, do you want to just go ahead and give it another shot? And I said no, at this point I need time, right, yeah. So there was a couple of years that went by and we got a little bit more aggressive, I would say, and we tried IUI. Nothing happened. And so it was a thing where we finally moved again and we moved to Chicago and we realized that the state of Illinois has this law that pretty much will cover IVF, like up to 95%.
Speaker 2:And so it was like we knew that, like IVF was expensive and we knew that we at the time did not have the money for IVF at all. So at this point I'm like God, is this you? You know you're. You're setting us up in a location where, literally, we came out of pocket like under $2,000 for IVF. And so I was like okay, this has to be God.
Speaker 2:So to say that, to say we tried IVF the first time, and that was just very emotional, that was your hormones are all over the place. You're taking shots every single night. This big box of medication came to our door and it was just overwhelming. I remember we talk about it often like our whole life just changed because we couldn't go on just regular date nights, like we had to have our refrigerated medication because we had to shoot up in the stomach, you know, at a certain time. And it's like it's life altering. But we tried IVF the first round and we nothing happened and I was just like I thought for sure, this was like a like a for sure thing. Like people are paying thousands of dollars, like why is?
Speaker 2:this happening, and so I'm like okay. So I'm just confused, like okay, and so the doctor was like well, do you want to try a second round? So I'm thinking we're here, let's just go for it, right? So we go for it and they tell us they were like well, this time what we would love to do is put two embryos in you, which does mean you would have the possibility of having twins, but we do this as a precautionary measure, just in case one doesn't work and one may take.
Speaker 2:And that was our situation. We lost one embryo, but we got pregnant the second time with IVF, and so we were super excited. We were like this is a sure thing. All of the emotions were there, the happiness, the tears were there. And then, once again, kadira was working football and I get a call from our nurse and she said that, based off my blood work, our pregnancy was not developing the way that they would want it to. So I was like God, here we go again, like at this point, this is year 2019. It has been 10 years that we have been on and off of this trying and medications and shots and all of this stuff, trying and medications and shots and all of this stuff and I was like why go through all the?
Speaker 1:excitement Like why go through?
Speaker 2:all the emotions just to have this happen. And so I go to Darryl's job it was actually a football game that day and he came off the sidelines and I said, well, this is what the nurse is saying. And so we had a moment where I hadn't been experiencing any like miscarried, like the symptoms or anything, but so that we were kind of like hopeful a little bit. So we just kind of like we were sad but we were hopeful because I hadn't experienced anything. Well, I went home and then I started experiencing it like that week, and I was like my God, like this cannot be happening again.
Speaker 2:And so, octavia, I literally went into a state of depression because I was like I'm tired. I said, why set me up At this point? I'm blaming God, I'm angry. I'm like why are you setting me up like this? Why do I have these happy emotions? And then this happens and it falls through.
Speaker 2:And then I go through these thoughts, you know, in my mind, like am I ever going to be able to carry a baby? Thoughts you know in my mind, like am I ever going to be able to carry a baby? Am I ever? What will happen to my marriage? Canara wants kids. Can I not provide kids? Like, what does that look like? Do we now go for adoption? Like, do I still trust you? Like all the thoughts and all of the emotions were going on through my head in that moment and it was one of those things that when we miscarried that time, I just had to sit and wait for it to happen, and it was nothing worse, like no other feeling I could describe, than like waiting for death to happen on the inside of you, and I felt just hopeless. I felt like alone. I felt scared. I felt disappointed in myself. I felt like I was a failure. I felt like I was disappointing my family, because everybody wants nieces or nephews or grandchildren and like all of these things.
Speaker 2:So you carry this burden and this weight for other people and it's like you have to deal with, you know, just these thoughts, and so that has been our story.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this I know a lot of women say they feel like their body was failing them. You know, and you said you felt like you were disappointing people. What was that like for you and Kedaro? Because it's like, okay, yeah, other people, but like what does that feel like? What were those? What was the feeling in your home? You know, you said you went into a depression. What was it like?
Speaker 2:for him. You know, when I tell you Daryl's such an amazing husband, like amazing husband, he, in those moments I know he felt hopeless, he felt like he could not do anything but pray, and even then I feel like he felt like that wasn't enough, because he's on the outer skirts looking at my body going through these changes, looking at my hormones and my moods going through certain, you know, crazy changes, and all that he can do is just be present and for me that was enough, because I knew that he was trying his best to give me everything he had.
Speaker 2:Conversations were uplifting from him. The conversations were you know, I don't ever want you to think that I would leave you if we can't have kids because he had to verbally tell me that, because and I didn't outright tell him, but he looked at me and I feel like that's what the Holy Spirit told him, because he said do you ever feel like I would leave you, Like if we don't have kids? And I was like, oh my God, get out of my mind. Like how did you know? But he was like I would never. We would figure something out. So it was always a comfort from him, it was always an encouragement, Like if we didn't get it this time, we'll get it next time.
Speaker 2:It was also the tears. God, he's angry. Why are you taking my wife through this? Why, you know, are our prayers not being heard? Like it's all of those questions. But I will say that I feel as though in our marriage it was one of those things that we never turned on each other. We never blamed each other for anything. We stuck it out together and we default to joy always.
Speaker 1:And so it's one of those. I love that. I think it Joy, oh yes.
Speaker 2:I love that, yeah, and so it's one of those things that it's like, okay, if this didn't happen, let's shift our focus, acknowledge what happened, of course. Like, let's, let's try to figure out what we can do now to like get our spirits back. And I do appreciate that he let me have my moment instead of just saying, yeah, okay, we'll get them next time. Like he said those things, but he also let me have my moment, you know. So I appreciate that from him.
Speaker 2:And honestly, octavia, I don't know if you know, but that's how we started every day with H&K, because, yes, so after I was going through my depression state, we said we needed to get our laughter back. So we started seeing like TikToks and like all of that stuff, and we were like we need to do something around the house to get us up, to get us laughing at each other, like something that's just new and different. And so that's when we started recording like our TikToks and stuff, and it was one of those things that just like of course, that was during COVID as well, and so, like the world itself was just in an interesting state, you know. And so just the comments we would receive about. You know, my mom just asked. But I was looking at you guys and y'all brought laughter to me and you know just those type of things was like this is healing for us, but it's also healing for other people.
Speaker 1:So it's like we kind of found our purpose in that and knowing that that's what's going through my mind is that you, you turned your pain into purpose, and I mean thousands upon thousands of people find joy in watching these videos of you guys. Yeah, it's, it's, I'm going to settle into this depression. Right, god is not for me. You know, you could have chosen those things, but I feel like 2 Corinthians, 2, 12 and 9, like his power, his strength, is made perfect in our weakness, and I think that you guys created a space for his strength to be perfected in your lives, and that's no shame for someone that is, you know, walking through depression or anything like that. I just want to say that we do have a choice. You know we have a crossroads and we get to choose where we're going to go at that time. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes and for sure.
Speaker 2:That was, I think, one of the things that, like in that depression state, like, like you said, like some people like you, can stay there or you can try to figure out how am I going to get out of this?
Speaker 2:And I had to constantly remind myself of the word and constantly remind myself and think about the history I have with Jesus and know he's brought me through this, he's taken me through this.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, he knows best, and I had to keep telling myself that, no matter how I feel, no matter what time I feel like I should be pregnant, god knows what's ahead of me and he knows exactly when our child needs to be born. And so our prayer has always been that our child grows up with the people that they're supposed to, that they're going to impact the generation that they're supposed to impact, that they're going to have people surrounding them that's for them. And so, looking back at all of this, if we would have had our baby girl when I wanted to, she would be probably jacked up. You know she would probably be jacked up. And that's when it's like you realize like God's timing is perfect, because not only was our situation different, but I was not the same person back then that I am now to be able to fast forward, be a mother to her now.
Speaker 1:What would you say to a woman that has experienced a miscarriage and how to encourage her husband, because it would be my assumption that most of the attention goes on the woman. You know the woman, the baby, the woman's body and physical health, and the husband is supporting the wife. What would you say to the woman that wants to support her husband?
Speaker 2:I am always going to come from a Christian backing right. I know that for me, this is just how I did it. I always ask the Holy Spirit to lead me and guide me in everything that I say, and so I feel like, definitely, in going through a miscarriage, you have to be. In my case, I had to be strong in God, and I had to have those conversations with God and say how can I help him? Because even though, like you said, I am the one that's going through them, like he's also going through a loss as well. And so I have to ask the Holy Spirit what does he need me to say in these moments? What can I do to help him get through it? Like what changed my language so that it is something that he hears and that he can receive. And so that's always my prayer is to Holy Spirit help me articulate and give my husband what he needs, and I think that when you have those moments and you allow the Holy Spirit to be present in those conversations, it can help tremendously to encourage him to, to, to have the freedom to speak and don't don't rush his feelings and his expressions of how he feels.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it may take a day for him to process. And I know, like for me, sometimes I'm like I want to know now, or like tell me how you're feeling now and things like that. But at the same time it's new. It's new for everybody involved. So, allowing your spouse to have that space and just say, if you're not ready to talk about it, just know that I am here for you. I want to be here for you, Let me know how I can help you, Let me know where your headspace is, Like we're going through this together, Like just kind of encouraging him and letting him know like I know I may be the one getting the attention right now, but I'm here for you.
Speaker 1:You know, in those moments, so good, okay, so we're going to fast forward a little bit and tell me what happened next.
Speaker 2:Yes, so at this point we're still living in Illinois, right, and it is 20,. What is this? 21.? And so a lot happened. In the month of May Kid Errol changed his job, he got out of athletics and got a new remote work. We also bought a condo in Chicago in May, and so I remember we were moving into the condo and I was just tired and I was like I don't know if it's the mood, I don't know if I'm just not eating, I don't know what's happening right now. I was like, but I physically just feel drained.
Speaker 2:And Kaderil was low key, like the NAP police I'd say be like he was NAP, shaming me so bad. And I was like I don't know what's wrong with me. I think like, am I sick? Like what's happening? And he was like I don't know. He was like do you want to take a test? That was the only option like he gave me at this point. He was like it's got to be pregnancy. And I was like, at this point, realistically, I said I don't, I don't want to take a test. At this point it has been probably hundreds upon hundreds of tests throughout those now 11 years that I had taken that I was like I don't want to set myself up for this false hope. So I said, no, I'm good. And so literally like a week or two goes by and I don't take a test at all. And so then I realized I'm just starting to hurt, like this is just weird. And I was like, well, maybe you know I'm about to start my cycle or whatever Cause. I was like you sure you don't want to take a test. I'm like positive, I was so overtaken test at this point. So it had been probably like a year and some change since the whole IVF situation had happened. And so I was like, nah, I'm good, like I'm good. And so I was like okay, cause I'd never had any nausea or anything like that. So I was like it's gotta be my cycle coming. But my cycle never changed. I was like okay. So I was like God, I'm gonna go to Amazon and I'm going to order these tests. And I was like okay. So I was like God, I'm going to go to Amazon and I'm going to order these tests. And I was like just be with me throughout this whole thing. So it was.
Speaker 2:I remember at our church we had flood Sunday, this one Sunday, and so the pastor was like you know, even if you're at your home, if you want to baptize each other, go ahead and baptize each other. So we were like, okay, let's just do it. And so we, literally we baptized each other that Sunday morning. And then, you know, you watch church, you eat, you take your Sunday nap. That was our routine, right. And so I was like, okay, we're going to take a nap.
Speaker 2:So then I had been holding on to these tests for a couple of days and I was like, okay, and so Kedaro was asleep. I was like I'm just going to go in the bathroom and I take this test and I literally have this video of myself like saying this prayer and, um, have this very faint, you know. And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna get excited. I said, because I've seen this before and a lot of it, but I do tell kid arrow because I feel like I have to right. And so I go in and I'm like, yeah, um, so this happened. And so he was like should the light be darker? Because you know we'd have been through this. So he's like should the line be darker? Like, this looks a little suspect, it's a little faint. Um, it was like he's like take another one. So literally the next day I take another one and the line's starting to get darker. I was like, okay, so literally I'm just ordering all these tests at this point because I'm like I'm gonna line these up and make sure, like the line is consistently and constantly getting darker. So I do, and so I'm like, okay, so maybe this is really happening this time.
Speaker 2:And so it's so surreal when I tell you that at this point I didn't have an OB at all, and so the only person I knew to call was the infertility clinic that we had done IVF at, and so I was like this is going to sound weird. I was in there for IVF probably like a year and some change ago, but I think I may be pregnant. They're like, yeah, we'll just come on and confirm it and see what's going on. So we go to the doctor and we literally see our daughter on the ultrasound and the doctor was like, okay, everything looks amazing right now. She was like I want you to come back in two weeks and we're going to just make sure everything's progressing. And so I was like, okay, so at this point I'm still I'm not letting myself get excited because, like we've been down this road before.
Speaker 2:So we go back two weeks and we see our little heart flicker and the doctor comes in and she was like I remember you from our IVF treatment. It was like how is it that you got pregnant? And the only answer I could give her was God. And I said we naturally conceive. And they were like blown away, as all of us are, because I'm like just God allowing me to go back to the place of infertility to just share testimony that he was one that did it this time was surreal. And so I'm not going to lie and say like the pregnancy was. The pregnancy was absolutely beautiful, no complications, like I never got sick, like it was literally a dream, like it worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2:But I will say that, even though I saw the progression of the pregnancy, there was still a little piece of me that was like until she's in my arms, I'm totally.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm just going to be a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And so it was a lot of conversations with Kidero that he had to be like oh, I get it, but we're here now, like let's start embracing this moment, like let's do this and that, and so for the most part I was there, but it was just that little piece of my mind that was like kind of setting myself up for worst case scenario, which I know is not right, but that's where I was in that moment. But I will say fast forward to January of 2022, we gave birth to our amazing, beautiful baby girl, novi. And when I tell you she literally is everything that we have prayed for. Like she matches our energy, she matches our family so well. She loves to travel, like she, just she is literally. When I say an answered prayer, because everything that was like on our list of what we needed her to be, like God provided that. And so, just looking back at the overall journey, it was not easy by any means, but when I say like she is so worth it and she was worth the wait, I mean that a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I'm like sitting on the edge of my seat.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. How did that experience change you as a woman, as a wife? What did that do to your faith? Because now you're on the other side of it and it's like hallelujah, thank you, jesus. But in those moments of I don't know if I can allow my heart to go there again, you know, maybe it felt like can I trust you to you know, fully, carry this out. Yeah, how did having any miscarriages change you in a good way, or did you feel jaded? How did that impact you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say definitely. I questioned my womanhood a lot and I think that I often would, and I often. It's never good when you see all your friends having babies and doing all this stuff, and so there's always a comparison like I should be pregnant by now. Or well, they did it, god, you did it for them. Or they didn't even want kids and they had it. And you go through like all of these questions and it's like God, here I am, like I'm ready, we're ready, like why is this not our story right now? So I think that it definitely it changed me in a way of humbling myself and knowing that I don't know everything, that I don't and I don't want to know everything. Like I don't know everything.
Speaker 2:I am not God never thought that I was, but it is one of those things that has carried and elevated my faith so much because, although me as a person, although I may want something badly or I may think that this is the time that I'm supposed to be doing something, I'm now leaning into God. It is no more about me. But what do you have for me in this season? What do you have for me? What do you want from me? And I think that it's turned my faith into like a total surrender mode of yeah, it may look, it may be something that I want, but, god, at the end of the day, I want to do what you want me to do. And so, although I may have questioned myself or compared my journey to other women or, you know, compared my life to other women it has humbled me in knowing that my journey and my story is my story, and, as long as I'm humbly submitted to God, I know that he ultimately has the best way for me.
Speaker 2:And so I have to get out of the comparisons.
Speaker 2:I have to get out of just thinking that I know it all and thinking that I know what's best for me, when it's like, no, he created me, he knows when I need something, and I often think about that, and I'm reminded of that through my daughter as well, because it's like I'm her mother, you know, just like he's my father, but it's like I know what she needs, when she needs it, and I know that if I give her this, she may break it or she may not know how to take care of it in this moment, at the age of two.
Speaker 2:So it's like God ultimately knows, as our father, like what we need and when we need it, and so that has been. My takeaway from this entire thing is no matter what I'm going through yes, it may be painful, but ultimately, if I'm fully trusting in God, I know that his ways are always going to be higher than my ways and his thoughts are higher than mine, so I'm not going to question him anymore. I may have questions, but I'm not going to question the way that he does things at all.
Speaker 1:That's good and I love that because it's like he can handle our questions. He's okay with that, yeah, and he's okay with us bringing them to him, but it's like I don't want to question his goodness, his thankfulness, his faithfulness to me. So great. You know, community is big right. So y'all are smack dab in the middle of COVID, so that's a strain on community. But my assumption would be that there would be another strain on community if most of your friends are pregnant, having babies, so you feel isolated or you feel yourself comparing. Was there a moment when you found a sweet spot with community during all of this?
Speaker 2:Oddly enough. No, I feel like with Kaderil's job we moved a lot right so there was.
Speaker 2:there were times I mean, we'd move like every two years. This is our, this has been our seventh move into Oklahoma now and so, um, community I feel like back then was a forced community because it was more so like who he worked with, their wives and things like that. Genuine connections weren't huge. So I had, prior to like Kaderil and us moving, I did have some friends. I mean, I still do have those friends, but I feel like they're all like. I feel like they're all over Right.
Speaker 2:So it's not like I have people surrounding me at that time physically. I had them on FaceTime or things like that. So community in that aspect was great. But I also was at the space where things like this weren't talked about, so I didn't voluntarily just give myself to people, and so there was times where I feel like literally it was me and Katero that was dealing with the miscarriages. Our families wanted to be there for us, but I did not know how to navigate that. I didn't know how to navigate my emotions and how to tell them what I was feeling and all of these things. And I didn't want to, because I feel like every time I explained it, it ripped the bandaid off or you know things like that.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of those thoughts of I'm just going to be here with my husband, I'm going to confide in him and now that the healing process has happened it's a lot easier to talk and I know that like we've had family and friends be like I didn't know you were feeling that way. I wish you would have told me I wanted to be there for you and I appreciate it so much and I was like I know that you guys would have been amazing at that. At that time, just mentally, I wasn't ready to have those conversations. But I will say that learn lesson is if you do have a community or family or friends that want to be there for you, if you feel like you can be open and honest with them, like do it, because that will probably help the healing process a little bit quicker. But yeah, I would say community was me and Carol for the most part, if I'm honest.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. Would you say on the other side of it, if you were coaching someone else, that it would be healthy to bring someone in if that's a counselor, if that's someone at?
Speaker 2:church.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, you know, but maybe if there could have been a guy for him to be able to process what he was feeling as a man, you know, you as a woman, Because I think sometimes and in pain I don't want everybody all up in my business. Right right, right, and you shouldn't have everybody. But it's like Lord, if I can have just one or two people. Yeah, that I know is safe, that I know that I can process, or even just I don't want to process. Can you just pray, you?
Speaker 1:know having some of those relationships, because I think it's easy to isolate. Yeah and praise God, you guys never turned on each other, but a lot of times people do Absolutely. They start to play a game, yep, and then they start to grow further and further apart.
Speaker 1:So it's like I love what you said we never turned on each other. And so it's like I love what you said we never turned on each other, and I love that joy is your default, and so I love that those were some pillars in your marriage, pillars, I would say, in your own convictions, you know, and that's what got you through that season.
Speaker 2:I would definitely recommend that, though that's something that I wish that we would have. And I mean, don't get me wrong, like the IVF, they do set you up with somebody to talk to, just in case something happened. And so we did talk to a counselor, but I honestly wasn't open and honest, Like I just didn't feel like really talking to anybody. But I would say that we had the people praying for us for sure, Like we would at least ask for that, like, please pray, keep us lifted with this and that. But I would recommend you know talking to like a therapist or counselor or something like that, or you know your pastors or something like that, because they can help give you language to what you're feeling and help you process those emotions a little bit quicker, possibly, and just be there for you. It was a hard thing for me to let people be there for me. They want to be there for you, so let them so good.
Speaker 1:There's a ministry called Four Known Ministries. They're based out of Colorado and they do a beautiful work. They put on retreats for husbands and wives that have experienced miscarriages, it doesn't matter how long ago. It's a free retreat, and so they minister to the wife as well as the husband, and so I think that's just such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:They have devotions that they'll send out and different things like that, and I'm sure they're not the only ministry that has things like that, and so Hope what I hear you saying is that there is hope, there is grace, there is a divine enablement for you to walk through a miscarriage, several miscarriages, and I think it's important that our perspective is that the baby is not the reward. It's that knowing Jesus in the suffering of not having a baby, yet, knowing jesus in the midst of death and loss and pain, yep, that has to be the focal point. Yeah, because if the baby is the focal point, if the marriage is the focal point, if you don't get that, then it's like my world just crumbled, but it's like I do want this, but ultimately you're the number one goal, like you. So if I never get that, I still have you and I know new parts of your character that I never knew before.
Speaker 2:That's so good, and I do want to say this piece too is like when we realized that we started getting in the vein of what God had for us, which was like the everyday with H&K and like doing that stuff. He started building our platform, right, and so to me, mentally, I just see this picture of like God was developing us, you know, through those 10 years. And then it's like, ok, now, what you guys do in private, I want you to also share your joy with the world. And so it was like at that moment, like our momentum started picking up and growing and things like that. And so then I feel like God was like, now that you are about my business and now that you are where I'm having you to be and to go, now I want you to share this story that I'm about to bless you with this girl.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, you think about it like if I would have gotten pregnant back in 2009, 2010, nobody would know this story, right, and so it's like, ultimately, god wants to get the glory for every single thing that he does, and that's where the attention should be is you know, what is God doing in our lives?
Speaker 2:And it's like now we have this platform that now we can share with people and they can see the evidence because they were there through the journey, like they've seen the IVF, like seeing all this stuff.
Speaker 2:So, through our obedience, people are seeing God be faithful to us and giving them hope that, okay, well, if God did it for them, like he can surely do it for me as well, right, and so it was like once we did the whole announcement of getting pregnant and things like that. All of a sudden, all of these messages start coming out about people having miscarriages and going through IVF and things like that. And they're like man, just because I saw your story, like I'm not giving up or, you know, if God did it for you, once again, like I said, like he can do it for me. So it's like ultimately knowing like it's all about God at the end of the day and so pushing my selfishness to the side of when I think I should have kids, and knowing that like God built this platform just to provide more hope to people and be more impactful, you know, than it would have been 10, 11 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yes, hope, thank you for sharing your story. I love that joy is your anchor. Yes, that's amazing, and I love that you're letting the light shine on you so that you can shine it back on him. It's not like, well, now it's all about us. You're saying, yeah, he did it for me, but hey, let's look back at him so that is so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Psalm 56 and 8 says you have kept count of my tossing, put my tears in a bottle. God sees every tear and I just want to say to anybody that has experienced miscarriages God sees you, he loves you and he hasn't forgotten about you, no matter what your feelings tell you. His eye is on you, he is at work and while he didn't pause the miscarriage to happen, he says I'll take it and I'll use it for your good. I'll use it for your good. I'll use it for my glory.
Speaker 1:And so we can trust him that when it's painful, if we place it in his hands, he's going to be with us and he's going to give us everything we need to get through this life. Doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. Doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Certainly doesn't mean it's going to be exactly what we want. Mean it's going to be easy. Certainly doesn't mean it's going to be exactly what we want or really want. We just talked about that, right right, but he is a faithful God. And so you stand 10 years later saying God is faithful today. But he was also faithful at year two and year seven, and you know, like he was faithful at the IVF office. He was faithful whenever I went onto the field to tell Cordero like he is faithful, and so thank you so much for sharing your story with us today.
Speaker 1:In the podcast notes I'm going to have a link to Foreknown Ministries, and so that's just a resource. And even you know, as a church we provide care boxes for those that have had miscarriages, and so maybe, if you're like I don't really know what to do, there's even those types of services out that you can just be a blessing to someone, and so, and then, last thing that I'll say is community is important, and so, if you are facing this, I would ask God, would you send me someone? You don't want just anybody, because some people can lead you astray, but God, would you send me someone that can be my friend, that can lead me to truth, that can encourage me in this season? I believe God's going to do that and he's going to bring healing to so many people's lives because of your story today.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Octavia.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited for this. One Can't thank you enough for providing the opportunity like this for people to be a part of. Yes, absolutely. We love you guys. Come back, Enjoy another episode and until next time, look for God's grace in all things. Thank you for joining us on With Grace. I hope our time together has provided you with inspiration and practical insights to navigate your journey with grace. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the With Grace podcast to help us reach more listeners like you. Until next time, may you find grace and strength in every moment.